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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Cheney Breaks Silence About Shooting Accident; Chertoff Blasted On Capitol Hill; Coalition Of Florida Farmworkers Suing FEMA; Congress Blasts Internet Firms For Helping China Crack Down On Free Speech; Congress Hears Able Danger Testimony; NASA Public Affairs Office Trying To Squelch Information About Global Warming
Aired February 15, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Wednesday, February 15.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, Vice President Dick Cheney finally talking publicly about his shooting accident, but to only one news organization. Is that full disclosure or is it blatant news management? And is the vice president now a political asset for President Bush or a liability?
Among my guests tonight, three of the country's top political analysts, conservative commentator Bay Buchanan; Democratic consultant Hank Sheinkopf; "New York Daily News" columnist Michael Goodwin.
Also tonight, dramatic testimony in the first congressional hearings on the Able Danger controversy over 9/11 intelligence, what could be the biggest scandal of our lifetime. I'll be talking with the man who thinks just that, Congressman Curt Weldon, the driving force behind these Able Danger hearings.
And outrage over an effort by a political appointee and the NASA press office to silence one of the world's leading authorities on global warming. Is the Bush administration trying to manipulate science to advance a political agenda?
The scientists at the center of this outrage is Dr. James Hansen. He's our guest here tonight.
All of that and more ahead here.
We begin with Vice President Dick Cheney's decision to break his silence about his shooting accident in Texas. Vice President Cheney declared that he accepts full responsibility for shooting his fellow hunter. The vice president, however, made no apology for not coming forward until four days after the accident.
Vice President Cheney chose to break his silence not with the press conference or before the White House press corps, but in a one- on-one interview with a news organization whose location and identity we can't disclose tonight. We have four reports on the White House efforts to manage the news about the shooting and it's aftermath, and we'll have the latest on the shooting victim's medical condition here tonight.
We turn first to Dana Bash at the White House -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, as we have been reporting, there has been intense pressure on the vice president, even and especially from those who like him, his friends and associates. Even senior Bush aides being very public about the fact that they wanted him to go public.
So, as you said, four days after he accidentally shot Mr. Whittington, we saw the vice president walk across the White House driveway to go talk to the press in what his aides say will be the only venue he will do that about this issue, give a public accounting, and that is in an interview with another news organization.
In that interview, he was quite apologetic. He said, "Ultimately I am the guy who pulled the trigger that fired the round that hit Harry. You can talk about all the other conditions that existed at the time, but that's the bottom line."
"It's not Harry's fault. You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend, and you can say that is a day I will never forget."
So we see the vice president taking the blame there. Quite a different accounting from the person who the vice president's office sent us to, to begin with, Katharine Armstrong, who since Sunday, the day we found out about this, made it clear she thought it was actually Mr. Whittington's fault because he approached Mr. Cheney without announcing himself, as is the protocol when you're hunting.
Now, the vice president is not known to be introspective, not known to wear his heart on his sleeve, but he did seem to be that way in this interview. He said, "The image of him falling is something I will never be able to get out of my mind. I fired, and there's Harry falling, and I will have to say one of the worst days of my life at that moment."
And it's that kind of description, Lou, Cheney associates really wanted to get out. A description of a human drama and not what we'd been hearing, which essentially made it sound like it was more of a politic cover-up.
But on that issue, the whole question of when this came out and how to a private citizen the vice president was very unapologetic. Here's what he said: "I thought it was the right call. I still do. Well, I still do."
And that delay, he said, was for a very specific reason. They were worried about his health, the welfare of the man that he shot Saturday night. And on Sunday, they decided to go for it with his host there, to have her call the local paper.
Why? He said because she's a hunting expert, she was an eyewitness, and he said it was her home so we wanted to defer to her.
DOBBS: Members of the vice president's own party and indeed members of the White House press staff have openly disagreed with the vice president in that judgment or misjudgment.
What is the reaction there among staffers at the White House?
BASH: I think it's probably fair to say relief. They're relieved that the vice president did finally come out and give an accounting and explain in detail exactly what happened and defend why he took 24 hours to give the information out and to give it to a local paper without officially releasing it, which has been part of the uproar over the past few days. But I think that they're also waiting to see whether or not this is enough, frankly, Lou. Whether this one interview is going to satisfy the questions, the many questions that are out there.
DOBBS: As you know, there have been reports that the president is displeased with Vice President Cheney. Have you been able to corroborate such -- such reports?
BASH: The president's aides are being very careful not to say anything about that. His aides, the president's aides, are very open about the fact, many of them, the fact that they are not very happy with the way this was handled. But as for this particular interview, how and why this happened, Cheney associates, as you can imagine, Lou, say it was the vice president's decision and he was not told to do this by the president.
DOBBS: Dana Bash from the White House.
Thank you.
Some Republicans this week critical of the vice president for not speaking out immediately about the accident. One reason for the criticism is that the vice president prefers to carry out his duties far from public scrutiny.
Bill Schneider reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice over): A former Republican member of Congress who served with Dick Cheney made this observation about the vice president...
VIN WEBER, FMR. REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN: His job was to be supportive behind the scenes and in many ways to stay behind the scenes, as far behind the scenes as you could get.
SCHNEIDER: That's how Cheney has operated as vice president. He kept the records of his energy task force private.
His former chief of staff, Scooter Libby, says Cheney authorized him to leak classified intelligence information to the press in order to make the case for war. Privately. Operating in secret carries risks. The press doesn't like it. That's what Cheney supporters believe is driving this controversy.
CHARLIE BLACK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's a pure "inside the beltway" story, and the theme is the entitlement of the press rather than the health of the accident victim.
SCHNEIDER: But the public doesn't like all the secrecy either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not particularly concerned about how that affects his public image, and the public doesn't necessarily like it. The public is sort of saying, pay more attention to how you like to us, Mr. Vice President.
SCHNEIDER: Many Republican who have to face the voters this fall are concerned that Cheney is becoming a liability with voters. They are pressuring him to be more forthcoming.
REP. CHRIS SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: It's like they don't learn. I mean, obviously this information's going to come out. So just let it come out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Cheney's handling of this very personal situation confirms a damaging stereotype about this administration that it hides things, that it isn't very forthcoming, that it doesn't want the people to know what's really going on -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider.
Thank you.
Critics say the White House and the vice president's office have completely mishandled the release of news about the vice president's shooting accident. There are reports that some of those critics are in the White House itself.
Chief National Correspondent John King joins me now.
John, to what extent has this created a problem between the vice president and the president?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, between the vice president and the president, again, as Dana just noted, senior officials at the White House say we make too much of that. They say the president is disappointed whenever his agenda is sidetracked and they know that all the focus on this hunting accident this week has sidetracked any media coverage of what the president would be liking to be talking about, including health care today. But aides say any talk about a Bush-Cheney rift is greatly overstated.
At the same time, as Dana noted and has been reporting over the last several days, there is open venom, if you will, between some of the president's top aides and the way this was handled by the vice president and his staff, specifically by the vice president. And I was speaking to Republicans and Democrats, veterans of previous administrations today who say you can sense their frustration. After five years, as one put it, there's apparently no one who can say no one to this vice president, and that anger is spilling over.
DOBBS: Well, that anger, as it exists between the staffs of the vice president and the president, there is also the issue of whether or not this can be a perception of outright hubris on the part of this vice president and this administration in that this kind of denial to the public of information about the number two official in this government, that strikes many as just simply arrogant.
KING: Well, some are using that term, "arrogance," Lou. And you heard in the vice president's interview today where he said he thought it was the right call to defer to the ranch owner. I haven't met anybody with any experience, senior levels of government, who agree with that call, including people who work high up in this White House.
They understand the principle, that the vice president, I'm told by close associates, couldn't remember everything, was quite shocked himself by what had happened. And he thought the best account was by the ranch owner, that she should go first because she was an eyewitness.
She was not as emotionally tied into it as he was, but everyone here in Washington says, the White House should have put this out, not the ranch owner. We are told by sources that not only did Scott McClellan want it put out as soon as he heard Sunday morning, but that Karl Rove was pushing to have it put out when he found out about it on Saturday night, as soon as possible.
Now, they wanted to get the facts straight, and of course the number one priority was getting Mr. Whittington the medical care he needed. But I don't know anyone in this town, Lou, who doesn't think this could have been handled better.
DOBBS: And does anyone in that town believe that if Karl Rove had wanted that information out Saturday night that that information would now have not been put out?
KING: Well, here's what I'm told, that at one point they working on a statement Saturday night. They were getting conflicting information from the vice president and others down at the ranch. And then the vice president told senior advisers that he had an interview by the sheriff's department the following morning, and the decision then was made to delay any statement from the White House until after the vice president was interviewed by law enforcement authorities.
What they thought would happen then is that he would be interviewed Sunday morning, the sheriff's department would put out some kind of a report, and then on Sunday the vice president's office would issue a statement. And they even thought, Lou, and they hoped that the vice president would meet with reporters or at least have photographs taken when he went to see Mr. Whittington in the hospital on Sunday. For some reason, that didn't happen, in part, they say, because it took so long to get the story out. They hoped to get it out very early Sunday morning. It didn't hit the wires until mid afternoon, almost late afternoon. But they certainly acknowledged in the vice president's operation some miscommunication, some missteps and some outright mistakes. But they say that he still thinks this was the right way to do it, although they did want him to speak on Sunday, not Wednesday.
DOBBS: Thank you, John.
John King from Washington.
The man accidentally shot by the vice president, Texas attorney Harry Whittington, remains in a Corpus Christi hospital tonight.
Ed Lavandera joins us now from Corpus Christi with the latest on Mr. Whittington's condition -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Lou.
Well, there is good news to report from Corpus Christi as doctors say that Mr. Whittington has stabilized that minor heart attack and the irregular heartbeat that he'd suffered. Everything is looking much better.
He's alert, eating regular food. In fact, was working on some of his law work this afternoon from a hospital room in the intensive care unit.
Now, hospital officials here say he is still in the ICU not because of his medical condition but to protect his privacy. He's become such a high-profile patient here. They say that this is something that they do for high-profile patients to protect their privacy, and that this is not something that he's getting preferential treatment because of this.
Doctors also say that they have pinpointed exactly where this BB is lodged into his heart, but there is still no plan to go in there and remove the BB. They say they will leave it there. Any kind of surgery to do that would be too obtrusive for Mr. Whittington -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed, thank you.
Ed Lavandera.
Still ahead here, we'll have much more on the vice president's accidental shooting, now controversy.
Also tonight, tense moments today on Capitol Hill. Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff testifying on Hurricane Katrina and the failure of his department to respond adequately. We'll show you some of the questions put before the Homeland Security secretary.
And explosive testimony today in what is being called a massive pre-September 11 intelligence failure. The Able Danger hearings, coming up. And our nation's Internet firms, leading technology companies blasted on Capitol Hill today for putting profits before democratic principles in their dealings with the government of Communist China.
All of that and a great deal more still ahead right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Republican and Democratic lawmakers today fired a barrage of criticism at federal, state and local government leaders for their abject failure to respond adequately to the Hurricane Katrina disasters. They also blasted Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff in his testimony before Capitol Hill.
Jeanne Meserve reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice over): This was Michael Chertoff's terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad day. The Homeland security secretary raked over the coals for going to bed the night Katrina hit unaware levees had been breached, New Orleans flooded.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: We have testimony saying that the helicopter, the Coast Guard man flew over, saw the breach in the morning, confirmed it in the evening, took the pictures, which I believe Senator Dayton showed you. Those pictures all were there before you went to bed.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I agree that by late Monday, by Monday -- by the time those pictures were taken...
LEVIN: How did these screw-ups happen? I mean, have you looked into them?
CHERTOFF: Yes. The answer is I have looked into them.
LEVIN: And how did they happen?
CHERTOFF: I think it's a combination. Some of these messages never got to the operation center. Some of them did, but there were conflicting stories.
MESERVE: Chertoff acknowledged many lapses in his department's response to Katrina, saying the storm was one of the most difficult and traumatic experiences of his life. But he strongly disputed allegations that he and the White House were detached.
CHERTOFF: I have to say that the idea that this department and this administration and the president were somehow detached from Katrina is simply not correct.
MESERVE: Meanwhile, on the House side, a report skewering government at all levels for failing to prepare for and respond to Katrina. Among it findings, the response might have been faster if the president had gotten involved sooner, that Chertoff performed his duties late, ineffectively, or not at all, and that the Department of Defense did not coordinate well with DHS.
The bottom line, the committee says lives were lost because leaders failed to lead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Chertoff said today he was astonished at testimony from the former head of FEMA, Michael Brown, that talking to Chertoff was "a waste of time." And Chertoff said if he had to do it over, he would have not have given Brown responsibility for the relief effort.
Lou, back to you.
DOBBS: It's a remarkable and tragic tale of just total incompetence on the part of the federal government, as well as, we should be careful to point out, the Louisiana State government and the government of the city of New Orleans.
Thank you very much.
Jeanne Meserve.
A coalition of Florida farmworkers is suing FEMA, as if it didn't have enough trouble, and they're suing FEMA on behalf of illegal aliens. The group says the federal government was wrong to deny housing and other aid to illegal aliens who were displaced by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.
Kitty Pilgrim has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): At least half of all farmworkers in Florida are illegal aliens, cheap labor for farms. The hurricane seasons in 2004 and 2005 were particularly harsh.
The federal government was there giving emergency assistance, food, water, shelters or hotel rooms, even cash to all who needed it. It didn't matter if they were a legal resident or an illegal alien. But now two groups that represent 300,000 Florida farmworkers are suing FEMA and its director because the federal agency didn't give more. They say these illegal workers have a right to FEMA trailers because the workers are so vital to the industry.
TIRSO MORENO, FARMWORKERS ASSOC. OF FLORIDA: Undocumented workers are more than half. And it's much more than half of the farmworkers in Florida. They're key for that industry.
PILGRIM: FEMA says it gives emergency assistance and shelter to all hurricane victims, legal and illegal, including hotel rooms and shelters. But trailers are not considered emergency assistance and instead fall under individual household assistance funding, a separate program that is only offered to legal residents.
Even the labor groups representing the workers admit FEMA is very straightforward about the rules. ARTURO LOPEZ, COALITION OF FLORIDA FARMWORKERS ORG.: FEMA is outright with us, and they say we can provide, we will provide the following services, but they have to be here with -- they have to be legal residents. So it's -- so a lot of the farmworkers don't even bother applying for FEMA because they know they're going to be rejected.
PILGRIM: FEMA says it's not a question of policy. It would take an act of Congress to change the law.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: That's not stopping the worker rights groups from suing. They say the government needs to do more to protect a vital industry for Florida -- Lou.
DOBBS: To be clear, FEMA responded and helped and provided shelter...
PILGRIM: Hotel rooms, cash.
DOBBS: And cash for these illegal aliens.
PILGRIM: That's right.
DOBBS: And now they have the audacity to assert some right that they simply don't have.
PILGRIM: They're suing to get more.
DOBBS: And this story is mind-boggling. If this is such a clear metaphor of what is happening, those illegal alien workers, obviously those employers, those farmers and growers, are committing crimes. They're -- it's unlawful what they're doing in hiring those people.
But even more, it's straightforward. They're responsible for those people and they're not providing for them. Yet they were wanting to push the cost and the expense over to the American taxpayers.
PILGRIM: Yes. And in fact, some of the worker right groups told us that their funds are restricted. They can't give the illegal aliens some of their funds. The government should do it.
DOBBS: I see. I see.
Thank you very much.
Kitty Pilgrim.
That brings us to our poll tonight. Do you believe that illegal aliens who are granted virtually every other right intended for American citizens these days should be granted the right to sue the federal government? Yes or no?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here later.
Still ahead, Congress blasts our nation's largest Internet firms and technology companies for helping Communist China crack down on free speech. We'll have that special report from Capitol Hill.
And what did Able Danger officials know a year before 9/11? And why was that knowledge not shared in time to save American lives? Today's Able Danger hearings on Capitol Hill coming up next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congressmen today strongly criticizing leading U.S. technology company for their help provided to Communist China to suppress dissent. Members of the House International Relations Subcommittee accused Microsoft, Yahoo!, Google, and Cisco Systems of putting profits before democratic values in their business dealings with Beijing.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On Capitol Hill, a bipartisan tongue-lashing for American Internet companies.
REP. TOM LANTOS (D), CALIFORNIA: Your abhorrent activities in China are a disgrace. I simply do not understand how your corporate leadership sleeps at night.
REP. DAN BURTON (R), INDIANA: I'm a conservative Republican. I believe in free enterprise. But I also believe with free enterprise comes responsibility.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have indeed aided and abetted the Chinese regime.
ROMANS: Under oath, represents of Yahoo!, Microsoft, Google and Cisco say their hands are tied by Chinese law.
JACK KRUMHOLTZ, MICROSOFT CORPORATION: Microsoft is deeply troubled by the restrictive regulations we operate under in China.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are very distressed of the consequences of having to comply with Chinese law.
ELLIOT SCHRAGE, GOOGLE, INC.: Self-censorship like that which we are now required to perform in China is something that conflicts deeply with our core principles.
ROMANS: And Cisco, accused of providing products for Chinese police...
MARK CHANDLER, CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.: Cisco sells the same equipment to China that we sell worldwide. ROMANS: Powerful American companies impotent to Chinese demands. Yet they say on balance their presence in China is positive for free speech.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The benefits far outweigh the downside.
MICHAEL CALLAHAN, YAHOO! INC.: The extreme large number of searches and other activity that happens on the Web provides an extraordinary benefit.
ROMANS: But this congressional panel slammed the very idea that a censored Internet is some sort of acceptable compromise.
REP. EDWARD ROYCE (D), CALIFORNIA: It's a very different matter to aid in ruthless persecution of free thinkers.
LANTOS: Can you say in English that you're ashamed of what you and your company and the other companies have done?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congressman, I actually can't.
LANTOS: You can't?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot say that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Several very tense exchanges, but the companies saying they're just working within the local framework and they welcome cooperation between the State Department, the tech industry, and non- governmental organizations to develop some sort of framework for dealing with China.
Meanwhile, a State Department official told lawmakers today that China's attempts to restrict and manipulate and censor the Internet have increased in the past year -- Lou.
DOBBS: They've increased with the help of the leaders of those four leading technology companies, not one of whom has a CEO who has the guts, the courage, the character, or the principle to stand up before the people's representatives, the U.S. Congress, and explain their conduct. And not one of their representatives had the character to say they're ashamed of the conduct of those operations?
ROMANS: That was so noted by the congressmen -- Lou.
DOBBS: They -- if they cannot be ashamed, I don't know what it would take. It's extraordinary.
Christine Romans.
Thank you.
Still ahead here, White House spin control, where it went wrong for the vice president. I'll be talking with three of the country's top political analysts. And stunning revelations on pre-9/11 intelligence failures. We'll have that story for you from Capitol Hill.
Also tonight, scientist Dr. James Hansen, the man silenced by NASA. He's our guest here. We'll be talking about global warming and political agendas.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Vice President Cheney today broke his silence about his hunting accident in Texas Saturday, when he shot a fellow hunter. Vice President Cheney takes full responsibility, he now says, for that shooting.
He made those remarks in an interview with an undisclosed television network -- no, with Fox network -- and not to the entire White House press corps. Dana bash has the story for us from the White House -- Dana.
BASH: Well, Lou, vice president was -- said that Saturday, the day that he shot Harry Whittington, was quote, "one the worst days of his life." And he took the blame for the incident, very different from the accounting we first got from the eyewitness he sent out to tell the world about it. She said that she thought maybe it was Harry Whittington's fault.
Now -- but vice president in this interview gave the kind of description, explanation of the incident, how it happened, that made it sound almost like a human drama. That is exactly what some of his associates and friends said he should have done from the very beginning.
But he very much defended the way he went about this. He said that he handled it right, that he was very worried about Harry Whittington's medical condition on Saturday night. On Sunday he thought it was appropriate to have the eyewitness, the host at the ranch, to actually tell the press and not him.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much. Dana Bash from the White House.
Joining me now with their assessment, Hank Sheinkopf, Democratic political consultant; Michael Goodwin, columnist, "New York Daily News"; and in Dallas, CNN contributor, chairman of the Team America Political Action Committee, Bay Buchanan.
Bay, since you're the farthest, let me ask you first. Did your friend Dick Cheney do this right?
BAY BUCHANAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: He certainly did a fine interview today, the little parts I saw. I have no problems with what Dick Cheney did. He obviously is a human -- he was a human being that night, Saturday night. He made a terrible mistake. He suffered. He was anguished. He is trying to make certain his friend was OK. He didn't think of a press strategy at the time.
I think the real story here is there are two stories: one the hunting accident, and the second is the outrageous response by the national press. They showed no empathy for the man who had gone through a very difficult weekend. And ...
DOBBS: Are you talking about Harry Whittington or the vice president?
BUCHANAN: No, I'm talking about both -- well, Harry certainly and the vice president. Lou, how do you think you would feel? How would any of us would feel if we had an accident and shot a friend of ours?
Lou, that's just a terrible, terrible thing to have to go through and do you think the press even asked, how is the vice president doing? How's he holding up under this -- you know, and, obviously, it's a very traumatic day for him.
DOBBS: Michael Goodwin, how could you as a member of the national press be so insensitive to the vice president's feelings?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, I do apologize for that, Lou. Although I do think that the vice president has acted foolishly here. I think putting it out the way he did and then acting today even, just giving one interview to his favorite network, I think is ridiculous.
I mean, this is not about him being the victim here. He was the shooter. And I think American people have a right to know what happened when the vice president of the United States shot somebody. No one's doubting that it's an accident but for him to pretend that he's the victim or we should be concerned about him -- in fact, there were reports about how he was holding up.
But that's not really the issue. The issue is what really did happen, and he's not been telling us. And the White House apparently was kept in the dark too for a good period of this time. So I think ...
DOBBS: Much to their displeasure.
GOODWIN: ... it showed his contempt of other public institutions.
DOBBS: Hank, from your perspective, a Democrat, a politically savvy strategist, what do you think?
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL CONSULTANT: I'll be critical, Lou. Bad handling of a difficult circumstance and does -- shows one very simple fact. They don't understand that anything the president or vice president of the United States do, is significant of and by itself. Failure to get in front of this story early on, control it for the P.R. perspective, just not good.
DOBBS: Not good. Let me -- this is a -- this is a -- I think if we can be so insensitive as to Harry Whittington's state, which is improving here tonight, so I will risk being insensitive there. But fact is that this is -- while it's a very bad week for Harry Whittington, it is a very bad week politically for this administration.
The Abu Ghraib pictures coming out today. Networks, including this one, running the Abu Ghraib pictures, which are disgusting. They're not going to be run on this hour, I will tell you right now. If you want to see the Abu Ghraib pictures, you're not see them on this broadcast because we consider this them to be, frankly, insensitive.
What is your reaction to these pictures and whether or not they should be seen? Michael, I'll ask you first.
GOODWIN: Well, I think first of all this is, as you said, a terrible week. I mean, I think that Chertoff's testimony and the report on Katrina, the handling of that, Cheney, and of course Abu Ghraib. But I think that -- if I could go back to Cheney for a second, I think that Cheney's failure to handle this well is a sort of thing a vice president should not be doing, which is drawing negative attention to the administration.
He's there for stand-by equipment. And I think for him to add to the administration's troubles, which are already considerable, is just foolish. And, again, I think it's his contempt for everybody else and I think that has made a bad situation worse.
DOBBS: Do you disagree, Bay?
BUCHANAN: Lou, the vice president has no obligation to race up and in some kind of two or three-hour period, report things to the national press. He handled things fine, and I think what's wrong is too many of us are saying oh gosh, look at this big mess and maybe we shouldn't have had it.
Well, what more what Republicans should be saying is, look at this outrageous national press. They made themselves the story. They're so offended that the vice president didn't give them the report within four hours -- it was rather 12 or 14 hours -- and the American people don't care that they gave only ...
DOBBS: Twenty-two hours, Bay -- Bay, 22 hours.
BUCHANAN: He reported it -- yes, he was reported it at 10:00 in the morning. It occurred at 7:00. At 10:00 in the morning, they're letting local press know and what the national press is offended about is they were not the ones told. Let's get -- this is -- they were personally offended.
They don't like the vice president. He's a very secretive man. He doesn't share information with them enough. He doesn't have the relationship they want him to have with him. And so he didn't follow their rule, so they're angry and they're going after him.
DOBBS: Well, good grief, Bay, in fairness to the vice president, you're leaving out president. He doesn't have the relationship with him that they would like as well.
BUCHANAN: The president knew about it that night, Lou.
DOBBS: Exactly, but not including the vice president's shooting of Harry Whittington. Your thoughts?
SHEINKOPF: That's the problem, right? Bay's got a point. In a free society with a free press, we like to know what's going on with the second most powerful man in the world. We like to know.
DOBBS: Well, I happen to agree with Bay on something. This could have been -- if I might say -- this has been, frankly, I think, much a great -- a great storm over what should have been rather limited.
But in terms of the handling from the beginning, setting this off, the fact that there wasn't -- and whether it's 12 hours, 24 hours, whatever is appropriate, four hours or two hours -- this is the vice president of the United States.
And frankly, I'm one of those people, Bay. I will tell you straightforwardly as a citizen and as a journalist, I'm sick and tired of being told that the vice president's in an undisclosed location, because, frankly, he works for all of us.
And I've really had a belly full of that kind of, if you will, a regal, imperial tone taken by anyone that we vote into office in this country. I mean, I've really had a belly full of that, irrespective of the other aspect of it.
BUCHANAN: You know, and that's fair enough. And you have a legitimate argument there, but to turn this story into some kind of national argument that some terrible thing has occurred because they didn't report it within a number of hours is just ridiculous.
DOBBS: Yes, as you know ...
BUCHANAN: The national press made a fool of themselves.
DOBBS: And as you know, you know, these things -- the way they're handled becomes a metaphor for broader concerns in the way the administration conducts itself. It becomes an issue of -- a question of is this another display of hubris? Is it arrogance? Is it indifference to the public interest and will? Those become looming, large, fair questions.
BUCHANAN: Lou, there was ...
GOODWIN: I mean, I think that Bay is right about the way the press corps does not like the president, does not like the vice president, and I think in many cases have been behaving like jackals.
DOBBS: Well, it's a liberal press corps. We have got to say that straightforwardly.
GOODWIN: That's right, no question about that. But I think that's all the more reason why when you have a real problem, you need to do it right. Otherwise you give them ammunition and that's what he did.
DOBBS: But let's go to the issue of Abu Ghraib. Let's go to the issue of Chertoff taking responsibility and assuming accountability but nothing happening. This becomes a Teflon, solipsistic experience, this type of governance in Washington.
SHEINKOPF: The economy, the war, the Cheney incident -- all of this in one shows a complete government out of control. That's the problem. And that's what Americans are responding to.
DOBBS: Hank Sheinkopf, I know to Bay Buchanan's displeasure, you will have the last word. Bay, we thank you for being here.
BUCHANAN: Sure, delighted.
DOBBS: And thank you, Michael Goodwin.
Take a look now at some of your thoughts.
Tim in Kansas wrote in to say, "Lou, I realize the Cheney accident is a legitimate story, but I'm much more concerned Al Gore going over to Saudi Arabia and telling them that the United States is abusing Arabs. I think that potentially affects my life a hell of a lot more."
Samantha in Oregon: "Lou, I feel my country slipping away, and you seem to be the only one on TV news who even mentions it. We give away our jobs, vital technology, military secrets, borders, seaports, airways, and our middle class. What is Bush thinking or doing?"
Rick in Arkansas: "Our president, the man I voted for, first he compares stopping illegal aliens to stopping prohibition, and now he attempts to turn over our ports to a foreign nation. In essence, he is failing to secure our country while he helps his Arab and Mexican friends. Is this what his daddy meant by globalization?"
And Joe in Pennsylvania: "Bush announced that he's going to get tough on trade with China. This may have helped 15 years ago before free trade policies sent all our factories overseas."
Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. We enjoy telling you and sharing them with everyone. We'll have more of your thoughts later here. Just ahead, silence no more. Members of Able Danger speaking out on Capitol Hill today.
Disturbing revelations about what the government knew before 9/11. And what little was done about it. We'll have that report and later is the Bush administration censoring science? The shocking -- the shocking story of what happened with one NASA scientist coming up here next. He's our guest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congress told held unprecedented hearings into the top- secret army intelligence program, code named Able Danger. Able Danger officials finally were able to tell the story in open hearings this afternoon about how they identified 9/11 radical Islamist terrorists and how their findings were ignored by officials who could have been prevented, they say, 9/11. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): October 12th, 2000, terrorists attacked the USS Cole. Representative Curt Weldon says the military unit Able Danger identified a problem in Yemen two weeks before the attacks, but the information was never passed onto the Cole's commander.
Weldon says the unit also developed information using data mining that identified Mohamed Atta and other hijackers before the 9/11 attacks. They tried to share the information with the FBI but higher- ups at the Pentagon prohibited it on privacy grounds and forced them to destroy the information.
REP. CURT WELDON (R), PENNSYLVANIA This is not about finger- pointing. It's simply about letting the American people know what we knew before 9/11.
SYLVESTER: During heated debate, Weldon spared with Pentagon officials.
WELDON: What's going on here? Is this a massive effort to deny reality? Let me ask you a question.
SYLVESTER: The Pentagon says its reviewed showed no planned meetings with the FBI and defense officials say they have not uncovered any information on Mohamed Atta prior to 9/11.
STEPHEN CAMBONE, UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTELLIGENCE: No chart or charts with Mohamed Atta's name or photo have been found. No data sets that contain such information have been found, that is to say, dating back to the period in interest. Nor were we able to create such data sets when we went through the search.
SYLVESTER: But Weldon says he had a source run a search using the same pre-9/11 database, who came up with eight hits of the name Mohamed Atta. Lawmakers also heard from members of Able Danger for the first time. Until recently, they were under a Pentagon imposed gag order. They say that DOD has been conducting a smear campaign to get them to keep a lid on the story.
LT. COL ANTHONY HAFFER, U.S. ARMY RESERVE: There are issues here which I think the committee needs to get to. I have not been supported in this effort to get the information out and I will do whatever I can to support Congress and its efforts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The failure of the 9/11 commission to look into Able Danger was also debated during the hearing. The commission's final report failed to even mention the secret unit. It was not even so much of a footnote.
And we should mention that that Able Danger hearing went into closed session about an hour ago. There are more witnesses coming forward. But those witnesses did not want to talk in public for fear of retaliation. Lou?
DOBBS: It is an unusual situation in which we had open hearings, and as you know, Lisa, and I told our audience here this evening, we had hoped to have Congressman Curt Weldon here with us tonight to talk about today's Able Danger hearings, but those hearings have gone unusually into a closed session.
In fact the congressman, the entire hearings are now in closed session. Congressman Weldon's office tells us that he will be joining us tomorrow. Then we will be discussing what has happened in open hearings, at least.
And hopefully getting more light on all of the days and evenings proceedings here tomorrow. We hope you'll join us. Also here tomorrow, 9/11 commission member Tim Roemer will be our guest and Friday, Emmy award winning investigative journalist Peter Lance, who has written extensively on the Able Danger controversy.
And a reminder tonight to vote in our poll. The question do you believe that illegal aliens are granted virtually every other right intended for American citizens, should be granted the right to sue the federal government? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have those results coming up shortly.
Next, more e-mails including your thoughts about those two million people that the Mexican government can't seem to locate down in Mexico in their census.
And explosive charges of a cover-up at the highest levels of our government. One of NASA's top scientists silenced, saying a Bush appointee tried to stop him from talking about global warming. That scientist, Dr. James Hansen is my guest here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, THE SITUATION ROOM and Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much, Lou. We're following lots of news, including the vice president. He calls it one the worst days of his life. Dick Cheney speaks out for the first time about his hunting accident. We're covering all sides of this story.
Also, media feeding frenzy. Is the press overreacting over reporting the hunting accident or addressing the public's right to know? We'll take a closer look at that subject.
Plus, very disturbing images of prison abuse at Abu Ghraib. We know what happened at the Iraqi prison but will these newly released pictures reopen some of those old wounds? Find out how the U.S. military is handling this situation. All of that, Lou, coming up in a few moments right at top the hour.
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf.
Tonight, the White House faces charges that it is manipulating science to fit its own political agenda. The director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, Dr. James Hansen, says NASA's public affairs office tried to silence him to keep him from talking about the dangers of global warming specifically. Bill Tucker has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Who says the world of science isn't interesting? These days it's wrapped in political overtones. The head of the National Aeronautics Space Administration has even had to issue a memo saying, quote, "It is not the job of the public affairs officers to alter, filter or adjust engineering or scientific material produced by NASA's technical staff.
Why such an obvious memo? Because of the public complaints by one prominent NASA scientist, James Hansen. That he had, in effect, been told to be quiet by global warming by a public affair's officer who was a Bush political appointee.
The 24-year-old who lied on his resume about a college degree resigned last week. The Bush administration doesn't believe global warming is real. The prospects for an investigation into the incident are dim in the estimations of the ranking Democratic on the House Science Committee, which has oversight of NASA.
REP. BART GORDON (D-TN), SCIENCE COMMITTEE: We have not seen a Republican Congress have any interest in investigating a Republican administration. It's very clear that Congress is acquiescing its role as oversight. And simply don't see that changing.
TUCKER: This latest incident of disturbing the scientists because government scientific research is supposedly free of commercial and political influence. If it's not --
FRANCESCA GRIFO, UNION OF CONCERNED SCIENTISTS: What young scientist is going to go into a federal government, into government service, into what we call public service if they think that this is going to happen to them?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: The answer is, they will be less inclined to go into public service. And the fear is, Lou, that our national science will suffer as a result.
DOBBS: It's at the very least troubling. It is an opportunity for us to take a look and find out what is going on because Dr. James Hansen is our guest here tonight. It's good to have you here. He's worked for NASA for nearly four decades.
He first warned Congress about the dangers of global warming two decades ago. He's now director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies and joins us now. It is good to talk with you. It is unfortunate that we're not talking about some of the great, great discoveries that are made. All that NASA accomplishes.
The idea that a 24-year-old political appointee has the sway to influence whatever you say or do not say about science, it just infuriates me to tell you the truth.
JAMES HANSEN, DIR. NASA'S GODDARD INST.: Yes, it's good to be here. I have to first note on the advice of counsel that I speak on the basis of my 39 years of NASA but I don't speak for the agency.
DOBBS: So stipulated and understood.
HANSEN: And I don't specify policy or criticize policy. I let the data and its policy implications speak for themselves.
DOBBS: Your feeling is, after studying the data for a mere 400,000 years, would that be about right?
HANSEN: Yes, we have good data for 400,000 from the ice scores in Antarctica.
DOBBS: And your conclusion is?
HANSEN: Well, the conclusion is the earth has warmed about .08 degrees Celsius, which is about one and a half degrees Fahrenheit in the last century, most of that in the last 30 years, while greenhouse gases have been increasing very rapidly and the main point that I was trying to make is that we're getting very close to a point of no return.
If the planet warms more than two degrees Fahrenheit additional, we will begin to have a very different planet.
DOBBS: And why did the Public Affair's Office not want you to share those concerns?
HANSEN: Well, global warming is a sensitive topic. Yes. And the public should know about it. My job, the first line of the NASA mission is to understand and protect our home planet and that's the reason that I'm speaking out.
DOBBS: And the public affairs office? Didn't understand the mission?
HANSEN: Well, they apparently feel that it's OK to filter the information going to the public. Which is, from a scientific point of view, you have to present all the data. Not filter it. But from the public's point of view, they're the ultimate policymaker. So they have to have the information. And so they have to get the whole story.
DOBBS: They have to get the whole story. Michael Griffith, a scientist himself, a man I personally respect, his background is extraordinary, the administrator. How has he reacted here in your judgment and has he been supportive of you and the need to have one of our leading scientists be able to openly speak? I mean taxpayer pays your salary.
HANSEN: Yes, that's right. And he has said exactly the right things that NASA is open but as yet, Public Affairs does not admit they've done anything wrong. And frankly, the story that came out was that as a 24-year-old. But no, in fact, he was doing what he was told by the higher ups.
DOBBS: By the Public Affairs Office.
HANSEN: Absolutely.
DOBBS: Which has had extraordinarily influence unlike any other Public Affairs Office in any other agency that I'm aware, the NASA P.A. Office is very powerful. Do you think you're going to see a change here? Or do you face, as the charge says, dire consequences if you speak out?
HANSEN: Right. I think there's a good chance that, because we do have a really good administrator and he said he's going to fix problem. But this is not limited to NASA. In fact, the problem more serious in NOAA and still worse in EPA.
DOBBS: NOAH and EPA two of our most important agencies, if not most important agencies, in point in fact, in terms of looking at our climate, our ecology and what we're doing to both.
HANSEN: Right.
DOBBS: Dr. James Hansen, we thank you for your courage. We thank you for being here. Let's hope that this administration does the right thing, failing that, let's hope that Michael Griffin has the courage and the character that I suspect of him of having and we thank you for your display of both qualities.
HANSEN: It's good to be here.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Still ahead, more of your thoughts and results of our poll tonight. Please sty with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight: 94% of you say illegal aliens who are granted virtually every other right intended for American citizens, should perhaps not be extended the right to sue our federal government?
Taking a look at some of your thoughts. Cindy in California wrote in about Mexico's census and the census failure to fine-tune million missing countrymen. Cindy writes, "Maybe they're looking in the wrong country." Succinctly put, Cindy.
Bettyjean in Pennsylvania: "Everyone is asking if we are concerned the government is monitoring us. I am more concerned that we are not monitoring the government."
Glen in Florida: "Lou, I am shocked. Congress has discovered that Communist China is not playing fair in our trade and currency dealings. Perhaps they should watch your show more often." We couldn't agree more.
And Ed in Arkansas: "Dear Lou. If Iran wants nukes so bad why not send them by way of airmail." We love hearing your thoughts. Send them to us at loudobbs.com. Each of you whose email is read here receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." And if you'd like our email newsletter, sign up at loudobbs.com.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. Congressman Curt Weldon will be here as well as former 9/11 commissioner Tim Roemer on the Able Danger hearings.
For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer starts right now -- Wolf.
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