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Nancy Grace

Neil Entwistle Returns from England to Massachusetts to Face Charges of Murdering his Wife and Infant Daughter; Father of a Missing Boy Arrested for Murder and Tax Evasion

Aired February 15, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. An accused double killer touches down just hours ago to make a post-Valentine date with a very special lady, Lady Justice. Twenty-seven-year-old Neil Entwistle, charged with killing his wife, Rachel, his 9-month-old baby girl, Lillian. Entwistle tonight in Massachusetts after taking off to his native Great Britain following those shootings. Will the countdown to justice begin?
Plus tonight, a 2-year-old baby boy goes missing, lost on a crowded shopping area. What really happened?

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, a father tells police his 2-year-old little boy vanishes, vanishes in a large crowd of shoppers. Tonight, we learn police theories and suspicions.

But first tonight, breaking news. Twenty-seven-year-old accused killer Neil Entwistle has touched down on American soil. Police say Entwistle fled to his native Great Britain around the time his 27-year-old Rachel and 9-month-old baby girl Lillian were found shot to death in their Massachusetts bed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA COAKLEY, MIDDLESEX COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Neil Entwistle, with a firearm that we believe he had secured at some time before that from his father-in-law, Joseph Matterazzo, shot Rachel Entwistle in the head and then proceeded to shoot baby Lillian, who was lying on the bed next to her mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wants to cooperate with the authorities in any way that he can. He believes that he will receive a fair and proper hearing in the USA.

JOE FLAHERTY, RACHEL ENTWISTLE FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Rachel and Lilly loved Neil very much. Neil was a trusted husband and father. And it is incomprehensible how that love and trust was betrayed in the ultimate act of violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Again, Neil Entwistle just touching down on American soil. Straight to Richard Lodge, editor-in-chief, "Metrowest Daily News." Richard, where is he?

RICHARD LODGE, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "METROWEST DAILY NEWS": Good evening, Nancy. Neil Entwistle touched down at Hanscom Air Force Base about 5:30 today, first time he`s put his feet on American soil in the three weeks since he fled to England. He`s now at the Hopkinton, Massachusetts, Police Department. He`s going to spend the night in one of the seven new jail cells they have there, a 6-by-10 cell.

GRACE: Tell me about the cells.

LODGE: Well, it`s a new police station. It`s a concrete cell, pretty much a slab. They have a few blankets to sleep on. It`s a stainless steel sink and toilet one-piece unit.

GRACE: In the same cell?

LODGE: Pardon?

GRACE: In the cell?

LODGE: In the cell, yes. Each cell has its own toilet. He`ll be eating take-out food tonight. They don`t have a kitchen.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Take-out? You mean like Chinese delivery?

LODGE: I think one of the officers will go pick up fast food of some sort.

GRACE: What!

LODGE: Yes. They don`t have a kitchen at the Hopkinton Police Department.

GRACE: Well, does he have a pick from a menu? Does he, like, have a stack of menus? He can have Chinese, Japanese, make -- what? How does this work?

LODGE: I don`t -- I don`t...

GRACE: I`ve never heard of this!

LODGE: Yes, I don`t think it`s that complex, Nancy. I think it`s a pretty basic meal he`ll get tonight and breakfast tomorrow morning, and then he heads to court at 2:00 o`clock for an arraignment tomorrow afternoon.

GRACE: Who`s his lawyer?

LODGE: His lawyer is Elliot Weinstein, who`s a pretty well-known defense attorney in the Boston area.

GRACE: Why?

LODGE: Well, Weinstein`s a very respected lawyer in this area. He was one of the lawyers back in the `80s who represented Gerry Angiullo, an underboss in the New England Mob family. He`s also...

GRACE: So he`s a Mob lawyer? Does that make him a good lawyer because he represented a mobster?

LODGE: He`s a very respected attorney. People on...

GRACE: Hey, Richard, did he get the mobster off?

LODGE: I believe that some of the mobsters back then got off, some of them went to jail.

GRACE: Well, I guess he`s a good lawyer, then, if there was a split verdict. Richard, didn`t he handle the Vasquez (ph) case?

LODGE: The Vasquez case? He has handled a case in 2001 in which a drifter was beaten by four men and dumped in the Charles River.

GRACE: A female homeless person, correct?

LODGE: Yes, exactly.

GRACE: And after being beaten, his client said it was such a rush...

LODGE: Indeed.

GRACE: ... and they went back and got another victim and beat them, as well. He represented that client, Vasquez, correct?

LODGE: That`s correct, yes.

GRACE: So he has quite a resume, I guess you could call it. What`s his name again?

LODGE: Weinstein.

GRACE: OK, now, tell me again, Richard, why did Entwistle come out of Gatwick, as opposed to Heathrow?

LODGE: I don`t have the answer to that, Nancy. I knew that they flew into Hanscom Field, not Logan airport, where everybody thought he would land, because Hanscom is outside of Boston. It`s a fairly short drive, about a half an hour from there to Hopkinton, where he was taken to the police station.

GRACE: Rosie, let me see the video again, please, dear? Breaking news tonight, Neil Entwistle has just touched down here on American soil, coming through Maine and now to Massachusetts. We see him there. That is called full-body shackles, shackled at the wrist, shackled at the legs, with the hands to the waist. There you go, nice and easy! Let`s go -- oh, make sure he`s got on a seatbelt because that`s against the law!

All right, so what time does he go to court tomorrow?

LODGE: It`s a 2:00 o`clock arraignment.

GRACE: And what will happen then?

LODGE: Well, he`s represented by Elliot Weinstein. A plea will be entered on Neil`s behalf. Undoubtedly, it`s a not guilty plea. The judge will determine whether bail will be set, and most likely, Neil will be sent to the county jail in Cambridge.

GRACE: And of course -- to Michael Malfetta, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney -- if he refuses to enter a plea tomorrow, then the judge will automatically enter a not guilty plea for him, correct?

MICHAEL MALFETTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s correct, Nancy. In a murder case like that, you can refuse to enter a plea. The judge will do it for you and protect all the rights on your behalf if you decide to be -- whether it`s recalcitrant or you don`t understand what`s going on, they`ll take care of it for you.

GRACE: Right. This lawyer, Weinstein, has quite a record of handling high-profile murder cases. I looked him up on line. To Michael Malfetta again. Michael, tomorrow at the arraignment -- simply a formal reading of the charges -- what do you expect the formal charges to be? Will there be alternative counts?

MALFETTA: Well, you know, there`s usually not going to be alternative counts. There`s obviously the opportunity for lawyers to get different degrees of murders, but I think, based on the way the bodies were found and how things unfolded in this case, it`ll be first degree murder. And there will either be a plea entered tomorrow or there could be a continuance of the arraignment. That`s up to Mr. Weinstein to decide.

GRACE: To defense attorney Tiffany Koenig. Tiffany, in a lot of jurisdictions, murdering a child under 12 qualifies as an aggravating circumstance under which prosecutors will seek the death penalty. Not in this case. Why?

TIFFANY KOENIG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the death penalty is not available in this state, so what he`s looking at is life in prison. So certainly, that`s not even going to be an option at this stage.

GRACE: And of course, Tiffany, not just life in prison. You`re right about that. But on two counts, that could run concurrent. And you -- I mean consecutive. And you may ask why. Well, I would want the prosecution to run it consecutively if he`s convicted, so then once he reaches parole on one, he starts the next count. Right, Tiffany?

KOENIG: That is correct. It would definitely be a life sentence for him if it`s run consecutive. There would be no ability for him to be able to get out because the next sentence would then start.

GRACE: Well, let`s think about this just for a moment, Pat Lalama, investigative reporter. Both Michael Malfetta and Tiffany Koenig correct in their reading of the law, but say you get a life sentence, Pat. You got two murders -- of course, we`re jumping the gun here because he hasn`t gone on trial. But if there is a conviction in this case, if there is, got one life sentence, he paroles out, say, 15 years. He`s 27 years old. Starts the next one. He could be out in 30 years.

PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Absolutely. And you know, it`s interesting. I read something earlier today that there`s talk among authorities, both federal and state, to try to come up with some sort of federal death penalty charge, but they haven`t been able to come up with everything that fits the law, at this point. You know, we can only hope they can slap on -- if he`s convicted, slap on as much as they can, maybe, you know, having a weapon, ammunition, whatever they can add on to just give it as much juice as possible.

GRACE: And of course, right now, Neil Entwistle presumed innocent. And I would expect, Peter Bellotti, former Middlesex County prosecutor, that they will want a continuance on the trial. Why? Because every day you`re not convicted, you`re an innocent man.

PETER BELLOTTI, FORMER MIDDLESEX COUNTY PROSECUTOR: That`s correct. And that`s an important constitutional protection that every defendant enjoys. I`d like to, if I could just go back to the first degree murder conviction -- if he is, in fact, convicted, that carries life without the possibility of parole.

GRACE: Ah!

BELLOTTI: So it is the second degree conviction, if that would occur, that someone is eligible in Massachusetts after 15 years. But typically, people do not get out after 15 years.

Now, with respect to, again, the presumption of innocence, it is important to note that, despite all the information that`s been disclosed to the public already, that not all that information is necessarily going to be admitted in court. Every bit of it that`s damaging to the defendant will be challenged by his attorney, and some of it may be excluded and so the jury won`t be able to hear it.

GRACE: Here`s what the district attorney had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COAKLEY: On some time Friday morning, Neil Entwistle, with a firearm that we believe he had secured at some time before that from his father-in- law, Joseph Matterazzo, shot Rachel Entwistle in the head and then proceed to shoot baby Lillian, who was lying on the bed next to her mother. We believe, possibly, that this was intended to be a murder-suicide, but we cannot confirm that.

Some of the background to this may be that Neil Entwistle, having entered into some debt obligations in England, having moved to this country with his new wife and child, attempting to start businesses, which, as many of you know, were not effective on the Internet, on eBay, and also undertaking a lease and other financial obligations, may have found himself in financial difficulty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I`m hearing in my ear we are now being joined by one of our producers there at the courthouse, Naomi Goldstein standing by. Naomi, what can you tell me about what will happen tomorrow? How far away is the jail? What is the security? And where is the courtroom?

NAOMI GOLDSTEIN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK. The jail is about eight miles away. It`s about a 20-minutes drive from here, from Hopkinton Police Department to Framingham District Court. He will go back to the courthouse. He`ll be escorted down. Police weren`t exactly sure what time they would bring him, but according to the clerk`s office here, if the arraignment`s scheduled for 2:00 o`clock, it`ll probably be around 11:00 o`clock that they will escort him to the basement of the courthouse. He`ll brought up around 2:00, right after lunch, for the arraignment. It`s on the first floor. It`s a fairly large courtroom, but they`re expecting a lot of media.

GRACE: Now, what can you tell me about this lawyer, the lawyer that is representing him? Is it true -- I know he`s a high-profile lawyer in that area, but isn`t he court-appointed? In other words, we, the public are paying for this guy`s defense?

GOLDSTEIN: Yes. He -- there`s about -- a couple hundred attorneys in the state that are eligible for -- that are private attorneys that are eligible to be public defenders, and there`s a state agency. He made the short list, according to the state agency. He`s very well qualified for this particular job because the investigation is -- I mean, there`s a lot of paperwork. I have 258 documents in my hands right now, and that`s just a few days into it and he`s got a lot of work to do. But apparently, he`s quite the guy to do it.

GRACE: Well, at this juncture, Michael Malfetta, I`m sure that the defense attorney, when he shows up to court tomorrow, is going to file a lot of motions. He`s going to immediately ask for discovery. What else is the defense attorney going to lay on the prosecutor tomorrow morning?

MALFETTA: You know, I don`t think right away, Nancy, there`s going to be a lot of paper laid on the prosecution. He`s going to take a look what they have, take a look at their...

GRACE: I disagree. I think he`s going to come in with a stack of papers that he ran off his little word processor all night long, demanding things.

MALFETTA: Right, like not to be interrupted or something like that. But he might want to run a mental defense. I mean, there`s all sorts of things he can run. But again, you don`t want to jump the gun and expose your hand. He doesn`t have the discovery yet. I mean, there`s going to be voluminous amounts of discovery in this case, and you just can`t come in there filing motions just for the sake of filing motions. They have to be precise and they have to be towards some kind of an end, whatever your end goal is.

So I think he`s going to come in there. He`s going to try to get his arms around the case, and then he`s going to start filing paper against the prosecution.

GRACE: Back to Naomi Goldstein, standing by. What have we heard from the family, Naomi?

GOLDSTEIN: I spoke with Joe Flaherty, the spokesman, this afternoon. He said that they`re taking it sort of hour by hour. They have a few good hours but a lot of bad hours. We expect at least Rachel`s mother to be here tomorrow, along with her stepfather. She has a brother and six step- siblings, as well as a large extended family and friends. So we`re not sure who`s going to come.

I know that the judge made very clear yesterday that there will be a section cordoned off for the family, and whoever wanted to be there could be.

GRACE: To Tiffany Koenig, defense attorney. Tiffany, what do you expect to have the defense file tomorrow?

KOENIG: I have to agree that I don`t believe that there`s anything that`s going to be filed tomorrow. This is a very large case. There`s going to be a lot of different discovery that`s out there, a lot of police reports, a lot of DNA reports that are going to be coming. And you know, it is going to take time for this attorney to review all of that and make sure that he`s not filing something...

GRACE: Well, the only way that you get the documents, my understanding of the law, is, as a defense attorney, if you file a motion to get them.

KOENIG: Well, certainly, a motion to produce could be filed upon the state.

GRACE: Right.

KOENIG: It also depends on how the district attorney would be handling it. They may have an open file policy, where they may turn over this information or share information with the defense. So that`s certainly something that may come about for them, also.

But I also think that this gentleman has just been appointed to Mr. Entwistle, so he certainly is going to want to have a chance to talk with his client, too, before he starts filing motions.

GRACE: To Peter Bellotti, former Middlesex County prosecutor. How does it work there with the discovery?

BELLOTTI: Basically, what will happen is -- it is sort of an open file policy, with -- in Massachusetts. But this is district court, remember, and the arraignment is occurring in the Framingham District Court. That court does not have jurisdiction of a first degree murder case. So technically, if the government didn`t want to turn over much at all, they wouldn`t have to. They could get another date, and based on our procedures here, nothing has to be turned over until the pre-trial conference.

Now, that`s not going to occur in the Framingham District Court. Mr. Entwistle will be arraigned again some time in the next three to six weeks in Superior Court. And at that point, a lot of the information, a lot of the discovery, will have been turned over.

The only thing that Elliot Weinstein might ask for tomorrow by way of motions is that evidence be preserved. Anything that the government has tested already, he`ll want to have his experts re-test that. So that might be one motion that we may expect to see. But frankly, the Middlesex County district attorney`s office will not destroy anything anyway.

GRACE: Right. Right. Right. Of course, that would be prosecutorial misconduct. You`re right. That`s a perfect motion to be filed tomorrow, Peter Bellotti.

When we get back, Raul Manchanda (ph), international law expert, Pat Brown, criminal profiler, and psychologist Caryn Stark will join in.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." The FBI tonight helping police in a search for Jennifer Kesse, the 24-year-old Orlando, Florida, girl missing now three weeks. Investigators hope the FBI can enhance and discern more clues from a surveillance photo taken near Jennifer`s apartment, seen here. Investigators say a man in that photo could have information about Jennifer`s disappearance. If you have information, call 1-800-423-TIPS. There`s a $115,000 reward.

And tonight, in Texas, doctors say the man Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot has a normal heart rhythm again. Harry Whittington had a silent heart attack yesterday after Cheney fired birdshot pellets at him in a Saturday hunting accident. Well, will it be the old ball and Cheney for the vice president? I guess not. Doubtful there will be any criminal charges filed. Cheney calls it one of the worst days of his life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLAHERTY: The family is deeply saddened at the arrest of Neil Entwistle for the murders of Rachel and Lillian Rose. Rachel and Lilly loved Neil very much. Neil was a trusted husband and father, and it is incomprehensible how that love and trust was betrayed in the ultimate act of violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Just hours ago, Neil Entwistle touches down on American soil. He`s meeting Lady Justice tomorrow morning in court for formal arraignment, arraignment we know on two charges of murder one. There you see his plane land -- wait, wait! Is that a private Gulfstream? What`s that? It looks like Air Force One!

Richard Lodge, editor-in-chief, "Metrowest Daily News," what kind -- is that a commercial flight? Explain to me what that is.

LODGE: Actually, Nancy, I`m pretty sure that that`s a government- owned jet, probably from the Department of Justice or Homeland Security because it was U.S. Marshals who escorted Neil Entwistle back to the U.S.

GRACE: OK, wait a minute. We had to send Homeland Security to bring this guy home?

LODGE: Well, the U.S. Marshals, that`s their responsibility, to bring an individual like this back to the States and...

GRACE: How much do you think that tank of gas cost?

LODGE: I haven`t filled up a jet lately, Nancy...

GRACE: Get on it, Richard! Get on it!

LODGE: We`ll look into that.

GRACE: So tomorrow morning, 9:00 o`clock, formal charges. He`s got his lawyer set, a very high-profile local lawyer who`s handled a lot of murder cases. Straight back out to Caryn Stark, psychologist. Caryn, at this juncture, would you advise the family to appear in court, the family of the victims?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: I`d absolutely advise them to appear in court, Nancy. I think it`s really important for them to be there, to see what`s going on, to feel involved. The more action that they take, the more it will help them to get through this tragic event.

GRACE: And back to our producer, Naomi Goldstein, standing by at the courthouse tonight. Naomi, did you speak with the defense?

GOLDSTEIN: I did. I did speak with Elliot Weinstein shortly after the announcement was made that he would be the attorney representing Mr. Entwistle. At that time, he knew only what the media had reported. He had no documents, nothing at that point. He said he wanted to meet with his client as soon as possible. At that time, he had asked authorities if he could meet him at the airport. I don`t know if that happened. I believe he is going to meet with him tonight, or as soon as possible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLAHERTY: I don`t think the victims of homicides ever have closure. They`re going to live with this forever. And maybe -- I think that perhaps there is some peace to the family when somebody is brought to justice on a case like this and the case is solved. And certainly, you know, they get - - as that happens, they get answers. But I don`t know about ever closing something like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COAKLEY: This is a very tragic and obviously of great interest to folks how this could have happened because it`s our worst nightmare in some respects, mother and child. It`s very -- it`s just -- it`s a very sad story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Did a little quick research during the break and I found out that to run that Gulfstream is $3,000 to $5,000 dollars per hour! That`s a $25,000 ride home. Now, that`s some bus.

To Clark Goldband our on line expert. Clark, what have you learned? Every day, you dig up more about this case.

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE INTERNET EXPERT: Well, that`s right, Nancy. We`ve learned that there are computers back home in the U.K. that Entwistle has used. Now, the question is, How do U.S. investigators take those computers back home? That`s between U.S. investigators, U.K. investigators. U.S. investigators aren`t talking, and we`ve called the British investigators for comments, they have yet to return our phone calls. So we may find more information on these U.K. computers.

GRACE: How about pre-marriage?

GOLDBAND: Pre-marriage, another interesting development. Through cyber forensics, we`ve learned that, in fact...

GRACE: Oh, let`s see that, Rosie. Thanks. Why is that lady looking over a fence?

GOLDBAND: Well, that`s because, Nancy, we can`t show the rest of that material on the program. But five months before Neil married Rachel, we`ve learned that he sited this site, an on-line U.K. friends site.

GRACE: OK. I see you putting in-air quoties.

GOLDBAND: Yes. That`s a sex-swapper site that Entwistle started...

GRACE: OK, that`s enough, thanks.

GOLDBAND: The question...

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you. Pat Brown, 20 seconds. So this on- line porn activity was taking place before his marriage and he was making money off it.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Exactly. And this is what the prosecution is going to want to push, that this kind of behavior went on a long time ago. The defense is going to want to stop it and say he was just a desperate man trying to support his family and fell apart, but it may not be so.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE FLAHERTY, SPOKESMAN FOR NEIL ENTWISTLE`S FAMILY: Rachel was a wonderful wife, daughter, granddaughter, sister and mother. She was also first to share her beliefs, her love, and her support to others. She made her close friends a part of her family, and she always kept her family at the center of her life.

With the birth of Rachel`s daughter, Lillian Rose Entwistle, last April, Rachel shared her greatest love, that of being a mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You know, we see domestic homicide in courtrooms every day. The calendars are glutted with them. In fact, homicide number-one cause of death amongst pregnant women.

But this jury has another issue to decide, if it makes it that far, the death of a nine-month-old baby girl, his daughter, Lillian Rose. And tonight, we learn from Clark Goldband that Entwistle`s online pornography and business dealings started before the marriage.

Back to Clark Goldband, Clark, what can you -- how do you know this?

GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, there`s computer forensics. And when you purchase a Web site, you have to fill out all your information.

GRACE: What do you mean "when you purchase a Web site"? He did more than log on to Adult FriendFinder?

GOLDBAND: Right. He actually owned these Web sites trying to encourage people to exchange sexual partners. This was his master plan. And what you can see here is you sign up for the Web site. You have to put your personal info. We captured this Web site. And he went by the name of SRPublications.co.uk. Rather than dot-com, the "co" is for country, "uk" is for England. And you see the name; the registrant is Neil Entwistle.

GRACE: And this was all before he got married?

GOLDBAND: This was five months before he got married. So the question that I have is: Did Rachel know about this activity?

GRACE: Well, OK, why are you concerned with what the victim knew or didn`t know? Does that somehow make her murder less heinous?

GOLDBAND: No, no, not at all, Nancy. But it`s just interesting to know...

GRACE: Good answer, Clark. Good answer. But what? But, but, but, but, but, but?

GOLDBAND: It`s just interesting to know what was happening at the time between Neil and Rachel.

GRACE: Well, you know, what it suggests to me -- I think it`s a very good point, Pat Brown, criminal profiler, if Clark is correct, if Clark pulled up the correct information -- and I have no reason to believe he did not -- and this activity online where he was trying to own Web sites, porn Web sites, make these ridiculous sales of sex manuals before the marriage, this predated Rachel and Lillian. It`s actually a very good point.

So when you don`t know a horse, look at his track record. What does it say to you? You`re the profiler.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: It says to me that -- well, I don`t think Rachel knew anything about this. I think she was probably very naive and only accepted what he said. He was probably a very good liar, a very good manipulator, and so he went into this marriage knowing what he wanted. She knew what she wanted, but she had no idea what she was getting.

This is long-term behavior. This is what the prosecution really needs to push. And I`m actually shocked at the district attorney, who kind of gave a motive actually to the defense, saying that she thought he had gotten into a lot of financial trouble, and that`s why he became desperate and wanted to do a murder-suicide, which I see no evidence of. I see only a murder here, so suicide plan whatsoever.

This man has gone -- if you go way back, you see lie after lie after lie, things that he wants to do, things that he enjoys. And when somebody gets in the way of that, that kind of psychopathic behavior, you get taken out, which is exactly what happened. So I think the prosecution is really going to need to get this information in front of the jury.

GRACE: And why is it, Pat -- you`re the renowned profiler; there`s no doubt about that -- why is it we always hear that people want to commit a murder-suicide but somehow it always turns out to be murder? Instead of committing suicide, Entwistle lands himself in first class on the way over to Great Britain.

BROWN: Exactly. And when people want to commit a murder-suicide, they succeed. In this case, but what he`s going to say afterwards is, "It`s what I was trying to do." That`s a sympathy ploy, to say I really had no intention of killing anyone. Well, at least -- I had the intention of killing all of us, but I couldn`t do it.

But what he`s also trying to say is, I went into a fugue state. The defense can use this. They`ll go back and say he went into a fugue state before he even, you know -- kind of even before he made the plan to get the gun, go kill everybody, and not kill himself.

GRACE: Get the gun, go kill everybody, hide the bodies under a blanket, take the gun back, lock the den cabinet...

BROWN: Exactly.

GRACE: ... lock the door, leave...

BROWN: But it`s all in a fugue state.

GRACE: ... get a ticket, go to Great Britain, hide out at his parents. OK.

BROWN: Weinstein has his work cut out for him; he really does.

GRACE: Yes.

And the other thing -- let`s go to Tom Shamshak, private investigator, a former police chief. Tom, thank you for being with us on the show again tonight.

Tom, what`s going happen at the book-in? And do you believe, as a private eye and former chief, that they have seized those computers over in Great Britain? Because after what Clark Goldband has told me and Pat Brown, you know the minute he got to his parents house he was right back online.

TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, FORMER POLICE CHIEF: Well, I`m sure that he`s tried to cover his tracks. And I share Pat Brown`s observation that this is deviant behavior that`s been out there for a while. I`ve seen the photograph that Clark has alluded to...

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Deviant behavior, online porn, are you kidding me, "deviant"?

It`s a multi-billion-dollar business. Somebody`s looking it up, OK? Probably the guy there in the studio with you; I don`t know. But it`s not just deviants. They`re regular people that you work with that are online porn. So I don`t know that looking it up is deviant.

SHAMSHAK: Well, what he`s selling here, what he was trying to sell, is certainly not a wholesome activity...

GRACE: Well, I would agree with that.

SHAMSHAK: ... for a 25-year-older. So that`s my observation.

Now, in terms of the booking procedure tonight, they would have taken biographical information from him, told him what the charges are, and there will probably be murder, illegal possession of a firearm, illegal possession of ammunition.

And he`ll be told that he could probably speak with Elliot Weinstein tonight. And tomorrow morning, he goes to court. He`ll be then transferred to the court officers who then will take him upstairs to the arraignment.

He will then be taken to the Middlesex County jail above the superior court, where he will probably stay for a good year until the case comes to fruition.

If I can just say, the Massachusetts criminal justice system and its trial system is on display here. And the Committee for Public Counsel Services, the public defender`s office, has really gone out here and has provided Mr. Entwistle with a top-flight attorney.

Elliot Weinstein is truly a remarkable criminal defense lawyer that everybody in Massachusetts has enormous respect for. Funny guy, Nancy. I know that if you got an opportunity to speak to him, you would share my observation.

GRACE: Hmm. Well, you know what? We`ll see about that.

SHAMSHAK: We`ll arrange it.

GRACE: Somehow, I disagree with you, just knee-jerk reaction. But joining us, Tom Shamshak, private eye, former police chief.

Ellie has just gotten a hold of all of the filings. If you could bring me those. OK, she needs a wheelbarrow.

To Rahul Manchanda, international law expert, I wanted to speak to you. Rahul, I`m going to fax this for you, OK? There`s more.

Rahul, he had lawyers in the U.K., OK? Now he`s in the U.S. He`s having arraignment tomorrow.

RAHUL MANCHANDA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

GRACE: Rahul, I did some research today. It is very disturbing to me. Is there a possibility that what he and his lawyers discussed in the U.K. will not be considered attorney-client privilege here? I find that hard to believe.

MANCHANDA: Well, there`s certainly some information that was shared in the wee hours in the first time he went over there. There`s a very good chance that this person could be brought over to the U.S. to testify, and I think it would be a good idea. He probably told them a lot of good information in those first days when he went to London, and I wouldn`t be surprised if that was the case.

GRACE: My question is about attorney-client privilege.

MANCHANDA: Right.

GRACE: What he told the U.K. lawyers, will that be protected here?

MANCHANDA: Well, the attorney-client privilege is something within the United States, within the different bars of the United States. But, you know, I have never seen it being applied internationally. That would be quite a different scenario.

GRACE: And so we don`t know yet if what he told them is going to be protected and kept confidential?

MANCHANDA: Well, an attorney has a duty not to perpetrate a fraud on a court.

GRACE: Oh, I see.

MANCHANDA: If an attorney is aware of a crime...

GRACE: Ongoing fraud.

MANCHANDA: ... that has taken place or a potential crime that has taken place, he has a duty to notify the court. Certainly if he`s subpoenaed to testify, he would certainly have to comply with a court order.

GRACE: For instance, Tiffany (ph), I can`t commit a murder then bring you the weapon and say, "Hey, you`re my lawyer now. Hide this, and don`t say a word."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you certainly...

GRACE: Go ahead, Tiff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you certainly can`t as a lawyer go ahead and hide evidence, certainly at that stage. Anything that your client tells you certainly would be attorney-client privilege.

What really comes into play is if, for example, Mr. Entwistle had gone to his attorney beforehand and said, "Hey, I`m planning on killing my wife and my child. What do you think about it? And do you think you can get me off?" Then the attorney has problems.

But after the fact, that`s getting into a little bit of a different scenario.

GRACE: Back to Tom Shamshak, will he be kept at the same facility after the arraignment or will he go somewhere else?

SHAMSHAK: After the arraignment, he will be transported by the Middlesex County Sheriff`s Department to the jail, which is above the superior courthouse, and he`ll stay there. I don`t think he`ll be moving at all. He`ll be there until the trial.

GRACE: And what will his benefits be there? Does he does have a law library, workout room, a place to go outside? I mean, does he have Internet access? Oh, good lord.

SHAMSHAK: No, they won`t have Internet access.

GRACE: Entwistle with Internet access?

SHAMSHAK: No, no, no. It`s a contemporary, state-of-the-art correctional facility. And the attorney can go in there and visit him. They do have some recreational opportunities, but it`s for short-term housing there. The jail is for people who are waiting superior court trials in Middlesex County.

GRACE: Let`s go straight back out to Naomi Goldstein standing by there at the courthouse. I understand everybody at the courthouse is gearing up for tomorrow. What else can you tell us?

GOLDSTEIN: I can tell you that I did ask about security again today. I asked the Hopkinton police and also the clerk`s office here. Nobody`s really sure yet what the precautions will be.

When I spoke to the district attorney`s office about how Neil Entwistle would be brought in, I know he`s going to be brought in, in custody and I know at least he`ll have handcuffs. Other than that, I`m not sure. We don`t know if there`s going to be extra security or anything like that.

GRACE: Well, not only to protect everyone from Entwistle, but to protect Entwistle from everyone there in the courthouse.

GOLDSTEIN: You have an excellent point there. I hope they`ve thought of that.

GRACE: Naomi Goldstein standing by there at the courthouse. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LA SHAWN MCCOY, CURTIS MCCOY`S MOTHER: ... Curtis Williams reported him missing. I asked him what happened. Where is little Curtis?

They wouldn`t help me. Why won`t you help me find my son? This is your job.

Curtis got to get away with murder for 17 years when I had to live my life in pain I just couldn`t bear sometimes and didn`t know how I was going to make it. He was living his life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Cries unheard, suffering ignored for over a decade. Can you imagine your 2-year-old toddler lost in a shopping crowd and then nothing happens? The child is never found. The father just loses the child in the crowd.

Take a look at this little angel. Look at him. Could barely walk, 2- year-old.

Straight out to investigative reporter Pat Lalama. Tell me, what`s the story of 2-year-old Curtis McCoy?

LALAMA: Well, the real story is that his mother, to me, is a hero, La Shawn McCoy. This happened 16 years ago. The father came down to the Carolinas, I believe, where she was living with her 2-year-old, for his visitation and wanted to pick up the young son, bring him back to New Jersey.

The little boy -- this gets me, Nancy, so badly -- the little boy in his little Yankee cap was reluctant. He didn`t want to go with his dad, but his mom had said, "You go on now," you know, "You`re dad used to visit with you."

Well, then he calls a few days later and he says, "Hey, you know, I lost the boy." And she says, "What? You lost the boy?"

Well, the long story short of it, he says he took him shopping but reached for his hand and he was gone. All these years went by. The case went cold. The cops, because they are busy and are overworked, at some point had to go in other directions to solve other people`s crimes.

She would not give up. She got the help of another detective in the local department. They started investigating the father. They`re finding out that he`s claiming his son on his income tax. One thing leads to another. And now he`s in jail on bail and awaiting murder charges.

GRACE: So all these years, the biological father claimed the little boy to the IRS?

LALAMA: Yes. Some of the years he did. That`s...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I`m surprised the IRS hadn`t gotten him first.

LALAMA: I know. I know. But that`s how the detective got smart. He started trailing that. And then a witness suddenly came forward and gave - - now, after he was arrested on fraud charges and other matters, then a witness came forward that the cops won`t talk about, Nancy, but my guess it`s going to be that witness is a jailhouse person.

GRACE: My guess is the witness is going to be the girlfriend.

Straight out to our producer, Steph Watts. He`s been in the courtroom all day long. Steph, bring us up to date.

STEPH WATTS, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Thanks, Nancy. I was watching that footage that you showed, and it was just so emotional to be sitting there beside La Shawn and her husband, Perry. You could have heard a pin drop when he walked into court today, when Curtis Williams walked in.

It was the family`s -- the first time they`ve seen him. They`ve waited 16 years to bring their son home. They just found out in December he wasn`t coming home. Today they sat in court and waited for justice.

GRACE: And, Steph, let me get your earpiece straight.

WATTS: OK, I got it.

GRACE: Steph, all this time, the mom, who is about to join us, actually thought the little boy was alive.

Rosie, could you show me the age-enhanced photo of what he would have looked like if he had lived?

WATTS: Yes, and, Nancy...

GRACE: Oh, man. Oh, man. What a beautiful, beautiful young man he would have grown to be. Man.

Joining us now, Curtis` mother La Shawn McCoy. Ms. McCoy, all those years you believed he was alive, lost somewhere, and you tried to find him.

MCCOY: Yes.

GRACE: When did you first realize or suspect your boy was not alive.

MCCOY: About two weeks before Christmas, Detective Armstrong and some other detectives came by.

GRACE: And?

MCCOY: And told me that the discovery they found was -- my son was killed the day before he was reported missing.

GRACE: Why do they think that, Ms. McCoy?

MCCOY: Because of some -- I guess a witness came forth and then...

GRACE: So all this time he let you believe the boy was alive?

MCCOY: Well, he never led me to believe, because he never explained to me the situation of what happened. All this time, I just never thought that this would be -- you know, this would come out.

GRACE: Do you remember the day he called you and told you he had lost the boy?

MCCOY: Yes.

GRACE: What happened?

MCCOY: After talking to a detective from the Newark Police Department, who told me he had reported my son missing, I had spoke to him maybe minutes after that call and asked him what happened with our son and where was he? He just said he didn`t know.

GRACE: And to Steph, there was a time where the defendant, the father, wanted the Social Security number.

MCCOY: Yes.

GRACE: Why?

MCCOY: He never gave a reason why. He had called me. And within doing the investigation, maybe the first couple of months of this investigation, he called me asking for our son`s Social Security card. And I asked him, "What do you need with his Social Security card if you don`t have him and you don`t know where he is?" And he said, "I just need it."

GRACE: Well, as it turns out, he had been claiming the little boy all these years as a dependent to save money, off the boy that police believe he murdered at age two.

We`ll all be right back with Steph Watts and Mrs. La Shawn McCoy.

But to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." Law enforcement on the lookout for Richard Eric Gurzi, wanted in connection with the California assault and kidnap of 30-year-old Stephanie Creech. This was just last month.

Gurzi, 38, six feet, 225 pounds, shaved hair, brown eyes. If you have info, call the FBI, 310-477-6565.

We`ll all be right back. But, remember, live coverage tomorrow of a Florida murder case, a high-speed shootout, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.

Please stay with us, everyone, as we stop to remember Second Lieutenant Mark Procopio, 28, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A final plea offer is a bit tentative. There is an understanding with defense counsel that any offer made hinges upon information leading to the recovery of Curtis McCoy`s remains.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: His father said he lost the little boy, reached back for him, his hand was missing. The boy was gone in a heavily traveled shopping area when, in fact, all these years, the little boy has been dead.

To Steph Watts, I`m holding the criminal indictment. And it`s really not all that clear. I`ve got child abuse in it. I`ve got murder in it. And, of course, there`s no statute of limitations on murder. This is a very old case. The murder was in 1989. What are the other charges and why?

WATTS: The other charges are -- the first charge is murder.

GRACE: Yes.

WATTS: Endangering the welfare of a child, theft by deception, three counts of conspiracy, and unlawful possession of a weapon.

GRACE: But it`s all about fraud. I`m talking about the three middle counts. What fraud?

WATTS: Well, what he did, Nancy, is he had this scheme going where they had an apartment and they would rent the same apartment to different people, they would take the money from the people, and the people would never get the apartment.

GRACE: Oh, I see. So the authorities got suspicious over money and then found out about the little boy. Court is ongoing. We`re going to stay on the story.

To Curtis`s mother, Mrs. McCoy, final thought?

MCCOY: My finally thought about this is I`m happy where this trial is. I`m hoping for a good outcome. I really wanted him today to just say what he did and to tell us where my son`s body is.

When he stood up there and had his attorney to plead him not guilty showed me that he still shows no remorse, because if he had killed my son in an accident, in a freak accident, then his heart should be open right now.

GRACE: Well, he should have called police if there had been an accident...

MCCOY: Yes.

GRACE: ... and tried to save the boy. With us tonight, Curtis`s mother, who never gave up. In court today, Mrs. McCoy and Steph Watts. Thank you, especially to Mrs. McCoy.

But I want to thank all of my guests. Our biggest thank you here is to you, for being with us and opening your minds and your hearts to our legal stories.

Coming up, headlines all around the world. A special good night to a long-time friend and inspiration, Joanne Cox (ph). She led a valiant battle against cancer. Today, her funeral. Good night, Joanne (ph). And good night, friend.