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Nancy Grace
Family of Five Shot to Death in Arizona
Aired February 24, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news out of classic small-town America, Mesa, Arizona, a family of five wiped out, gone, shot to death in their own Arizona home. Tonight, police say it was not murder-suicide. And we turn to the search for two things: gunmen and motive.
And tonight: The honeymoon cruise ended months ago, but the search for clues in the mysterious disappearance of newlywed George Smith is full speed ahead. Tonight, for the first time on air together, the missing groom`s parents speak, and so does the camp for the bride, Jennifer Hagel Smith.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, the mystery only deepens in the disappearance of 26-year-old newlywed in the prime of his lifetime, George Smith, honeymooning on a Mediterranean cruise. Tonight, Smith`s parents and the camp of the bride who disappeared that night also speak out.
But first tonight, a mass murder in a very exclusive neighborhood, Mesa, Arizona. Police tonight rule out murder-suicide, and they reveal a gunman possibly working alone went into the home, left dead parents and children, and then eluded police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. TIM GAFFNEY, MESA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Tuesday morning, about 2:41 in the morning, we responded out to a "shots fired" call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have declared this a homicide. This is not a murder-suicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a terrible tragedy.
GAFFNEY: There were mounds of physical evidence that were collected in this case. The crime lab`s been basically working 24/7 since this came out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rest assured, somebody meant to go in that house and kill those individuals.
GAFFNEY: We`re working with the county attorney`s office. The crime lab is working. And we`re doing the best we can to get to the bottom of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Kristina Davis, a reporter with "The East Valley Tribune." Welcome, Kristina. What can you tell us?
KRISTINA DAVIS, "EAST VALLEY TRIBUNE": Well, that, you know, police last night called it a homicide. Without a doubt, it`s a homicide, not a murder-suicide, so they`re working the case now.
GRACE: OK. That much I know, but tell me about the suspect.
DAVIS: Police have not named a suspect. We really don`t have a suspect, at this point.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Detective Tim Gaffney with the Mesa Police Department. Detective Gaffney, explain to me about the murders. What was the mode of murder?
GAFFNEY: As far as the investigation goes, we`ve been at this since early Tuesday morning. We basically have gone at this non-stop. We`re going to continue on this investigation until we can bring closure for the Lovell and Duffy (ph) family and also the citizens of that community.
GRACE: Back to Kristina Davis with "The East Valley Tribune." Where were the bodies found?
DAVIS: With, when SWAT team members went into the house a couple hours after the neighbors heard gunshots and screams, they found bodies upstairs in the house. That`s why they went in. And that`s all we know.
GRACE: Take a listen to what police had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GAFFNEY: On Tuesday morning, about 2:41 the morning, we responded out to a "shots fired" call. When we got there, neighbors pointed at a residence, told us that they heard a female screaming inside, could hear shots coming from inside the home. We attempted to make contact, did not have any luck with that. Our SWAT team came out, made forced entry into the residence. Once inside the residence, we did find three adults who were murdered, and we found two children who were murdered.
We`re working many different leads in this case. We`re going to continue to examine the physical evidence. There were mounds of physical evidence that were collected in this case. Our crime lab`s been basically working 24/7 since this came out, and so have our detectives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to Detective Tim Gaffney. He is with the Mesa police department. Detective, again, thank you for being with us. The five bodies found in this home -- describe the neighborhood. It`s my understanding it`s fairly upscale, a gated community?
GAFFNEY: The Bering Ten (ph) Estates is a very safe neighborhood. We have relatively few calls for service in that neighborhood. Residents, when they woke that morning, were very shocked.
GRACE: I guess so. I mean, five members of a family wiped out in their own home. Another issue has come up. It`s my understanding, Detective Gaffney, that police stood outside the home for -- for how many hours before entering?
GAFFNEY: We had initially received a call at 2:41 in the morning. The initial callers were reporting that they were hearing shots fired and a female yelling inside of the home. Within one minute of the call came -- coming out, the first Mesa officer arrived on scene. When the officer arrived on scene, he directed other units. We set up a perimeter around the residence. From the time the initial call came in until the time the officer got there, none of the callers reported seeing anybody leaving, hearing any vehicles leaving.
We set up the perimeter. We tried to make contact through telephone into the residence. We tried contacting the residents through a public address system. We were unable to, at which point, based off of the information neighbors had told us, that they felt that there was a large amount of guns inside the residence, we considered it a barricade situation and called out our SWAT team.
GRACE: So at the time the police stood outside, they thought there was a possibility the gunman was still inside, possibly even a hostage situation? Is that why they didn`t go in?
GAFFNEY: Absolutely.
GRACE: Gotcha.
GAFFNEY: We waited for the SWAT team to get there, so they could make entry. They are trained. They also have the equipment to make the force- type entries.
GRACE: Detective, very unusual that this would occur in this type of a neighborhood. Practically zero 911 calls coming from this type of neighborhood, none from this home in the past, it is my understanding. Let`s talk about what we know tonight, Detective. Were they all on the upper level?
GAFFNEY: I can say at this point all five bodies were found inside the residence. We are not commenting on where the bodies were found in the residence due to the fact only the killer or killers know that and the police.
GRACE: The reason I was asking, Detective, is because I was wondering, was the family ambushed? For instance, was the mother stereotypically standing there, making coffee? Were the kids getting ready for school? Was the dad on his way out the door to work? Or was this a situation where the perpetrator came into the home, got them bound and gagged, put upstairs, laid out on a bed or -- was it an execution-style killing, or was the family ambushed? Can you tell me that much, Detective?
GAFFNEY: Nancy, I can tell you that there`s no sign of forced entry. The residence was secure when we got there. We had to force entry to go into the residence. Once again, a lot of the things that you just mentioned there, we can`t comment on due to the fact only the suspect or suspects know that and police.
GRACE: No forced entry. Interesting. So you`re telling me police had to force their way in, right?
GAFFNEY: That is correct. Our SWAT team had to make forced entry into a door to get into the residence..
GRACE: So the doors were locked from the inside.
GAFFNEY: That is correct.
GRACE: So this person was either let in or got in. But you know what? That`s not a real clue, is it, Detective, because if one of these doors had been unlocked, the perp -- a he, I`m sure -- could have just walked in. That doesn`t necessarily mean they knew the person. If they had an unlocked door, he could have walked right in. Here is what police had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GAFFNEY: It`s still very early in the investigation. We`re still actually pulling items from the home, as we speak. We`re still going through the home with a fine-toothed comb, making sure we don`t miss one thing.
We`re going back. We`re talking with any friends, acquaintances, and we`re still talking with neighbors, as well.
We did have five people that were murdered in Mesa. I mean, that would draw concern. I can say that since it came out early Tuesday morning, we`ve been working around the clock. We`re working with the county attorney`s office. Our crime lab is working, and we`re doing the best we can to get to the bottom of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Kristina Davis with "East Valley Tribune." Kristina, there is a lot of speculation that this family was actually targeted because they included more than one witness in an upcoming arson case, right?
DAVIS: That`s right. We learned through court documents a couple days or a day after the killings, that in fact, two of the people were going to be police -- or were going to testify in an arson case, and they were police informants in an arson case that they had connections to.
GRACE: An arson case. Two of them were going to testify in an arson case. But you know, I don`t get it, Detective Gaffney. I mean, that happens in the movies, you know, a get-back, a hit by a mob on a witness. An arson, in most jurisdictions, Detective, is considered a property crime, right? Nobody was killed. It`s my understanding the perpetrator in that arson burned up his own place. So I don`t see him doing hard jail time. Do you think it would be worth an arsonist, who may not be facing jail time at all, to wipe out five members of a family?
GAFFNEY: Nancy, we`ve been following up on several leads on this case. Unfortunately, I can`t reveal what those leads are. We`ve gone through mounds of physical evidence. Our detectives have been working around the clock since early Tuesday morning. Unfortunately, while we`re completing our investigating, the media is also doing their investigation, which, in fact, has actually hindered our criminal investigation.
GRACE: You know, Detective, there have been a lot of attacks on police for not entering the residence sooner. But the way you`re telling me, the reality is this family was dead, and the SWAT team truly believed - - because they got there one minute after the 911 call, right? Nobody saw anyone leave the home. So everyone believed the gunman was still in the home, right?
GAFFNEY: You`re absolutely right. We took it as a barricade situation. There have been past incidences with other agencies where officers have forced entry and not treated it as a barricade situation. And it wouldn`t do any good if an officer was shot as soon as they went in there. We wouldn`t be able to do anything to help the victims at that point.
GRACE: Well, you know, Officer, when you don`t have a suspect under arrest, people start pointing the finger at everybody, including the police. So you know, buck up.
Back to Kristina Davis, "East Valley Tribune" reporter. Let`s go back to the fact that two of these family members were going to be witnesses in an arson case. How did that unfold. What do you mean, witnesses or co- defendants?
DAVIS: One of the victims, Steven Duffy (ph), was actually charged, along with his former boss, in the arson case. And what ended up happening is he and his girlfriend, the other victim, Tammy Lovell, ended up becoming informants in the case.
GRACE: They ended up becoming informants, but one of them was actually involved in the arson, right?
DAVIS: Right.
GRACE: The man.
DAVIS: He was charged in the arson, along with the other guy, yes.
GRACE: So he was a co-defendant. So basically, he was a co-defendant turning state`s evidence.
DAVIS: You may be correct, yes. We`re trying to confirm that.
GRACE: So Kristina Davis -- everyone, with us from "East Valley Tribune" -- did any of them express fear for their own safety?
DAVIS: You know, we`ve had several reports from family members and neighbors, people who knew them that they did make comments that they feared for their safety. As far as specific threats, we`re still trying to confirm, you know, whether there were any or what those were.
GRACE: Very quickly to Paul Lovell. He is the father, the biological father -- oh, OK, we`re get Paul Lovell hooked up in just one moment.
You know, what? Let`s go to break now, Elizabeth, while we get the father hooked up. The rest of our panel will join in with us, a reporter there on the scene, as well as the detective who is working case.
To tonight`s "Case Alert." Today police found the body of Jerrod McGuire(ph), Jerrod autistic, just 8 years old, found in a pond 300 feet from his Greenacres, Florida, home. Tonight, police investigating the nature of his death.
Also tonight, from Nevada, I`m sorry to report to you police say this little girl -- remember her? She was thrown into a Vegas dumpster like trash. Tonight, police say this child was killed by her own mother and the boyfriend. This little girl`s identity had been a mystery for weeks. We tried desperately to find out who she is. Police found Gladys Perez (ph), the mother, and Mark Anthony Cohen (ph), and put them behind bars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were able to ascertain a time period that they were in Vegas, which would have been around the time that the body was discovered in the dumpster at the Cordoba (ph) apartments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Still to come, the mystery surrounding the so-called missing groom. Tonight, George Smith`s family speaks out. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two adults, plus an 18-year-old boy and a 15-year- old girl and a 10-year-old boy, all shot and killed inside this Mesa home. This is a quiet, middle-class newer-home neighborhood. Residents in a state of shock. They say nothing ever happens here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve always thought that Mesa was very safe. And we`re in a gated community and a very quiet neighborhood, lots of children. So it is very shocking that it happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was an explosion that came from outside our gates because nothing like that happens here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. An incredible crime, an entire family wiped out in a very up-scale neighborhood, a gated community, Mesa, Arizona. It is classic, small-town America, a beautiful community. Neighbors heard gunshot fire. They heard a woman screaming. Within one minute, the local police and SWAT team were there. No one was seen leaving the home.
When police finally went in, after suspecting a hostage situation, they find all five members of the family dead, no perpetrator there. They have ruled out -- repeat, have ruled out -- murder-suicide.
Back to Detective Tim Gaffney, the PIO with the Mesa Police Department. Detective, I assume that at first, it was believed to be a murder-suicide because there was no perpetrator on the scene, no suspect.
GAFFNEY: You`re exactly right. Early on, when the 911 calls came in, the callers reported hearing a female scream, also reported hearing shots fired while they were on the phone with the 911 operator, they heard additional shots being fired, and they were actually watching and nobody reported hearing a vehicle leave, seeing a vehicle leave or seeing any people leave.
GRACE: So OK, this guy gets in, no forced entry, and he gets out with not a soul seeing a thing. What does that say you to, Detective?
GAFFNEY: Once again, this case is under investigation. We don`t have witnesses that actually saw the homicide occur, as you usually have with homicides. In this particular case, we`re putting it all together based upon the physical evidence.
GRACE: Detective, can you tell me if the two that were witnesses, the adult male and female, had expressed fear for their safety? They were going to be witnesses, one of them, the man, a co-defendant, in a felony arson case.
GAFFNEY: The Mesa police had not received any request from the family or any concerns over that. We did learn through witnesses, as we were completing our interviews, that the children had actually told other kids that, in fact, they feared for their safety. But the Mesa Police Department did not receive any of those calls ahead of time.
GRACE: To psychologist Linda Gunsberg, joining us. Linda, I`ve seen a lot of homicides, unfortunately, in my career. But it takes a whole different animal to kill children, to wipe out the mother with the kids there, and then kill two children, clearly by gunfire, Linda?
LINDA GUNSBERG, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, Nancy. Hi. I think what you can -- you can say is that a killer doesn`t really determine the difference between a child and an adult. In other words, they`re not in the mindset, or are they in the empathy set, to make that distinction.
GRACE: You know what, Linda? Interesting you said that. I have actually had felons that killed because they didn`t want to leave behind a witness. That`s how this is striking me.
GUNSBERG: That is entirely possible, Nancy. Or it could be that the person just -- just went on kind of, like, a ritualistic killing set, and just went one, two, three, four, five. We don`t know...
GRACE: Well, Linda, one more thing. As a psychologist, very often, when we see entire families wiped out, it`s immediately presumed to be a murder-suicide because that takes, typically, a great deal of passion, some type of a connection, to wipe out a whole family. I mean, what`s the point of killing the two children? But in this case, police have ruled out murder-suicide. It didn`t happen. It is fairly easy to determine by the angle of the gunshot wounds.
GUNSBERG: My sense of it is -- there`s another hypothesis, which is that the murderer was actually a friend who was actually in the home prior to the murders, that something happened between the time he entered and the time of the murders, which we don`t know...
GRACE: Right.
GUNSBERG: ... and something like that.
GRACE: To Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney. Renee, a lot of people have talked about, Why wasn`t this family in the witness protection program? You know what? It practically doesn`t exist on the state or local level, and it`s very rare on the federal level. But what do you make of the way this went down? This whole arson case, which I consider to be a property crime, even if he got convicted on it, he`d be in and out in three years. I don`t care if he was sentenced to 20 years, the parole board would let him out in three. So what do you think?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`s just -- it`s mind- boggling that someone, if there is a person of interest, that would have gone and gone to these measures just to get rid of potential witnesses in a property crime, something that he could have -- if they had him, could have probably have pled out for straight probation. He didn`t have a record. It seems more to me like -- I mean, here we have a situation where no forced entry, someone -- whoever was in the house obviously was let into the house and just slipped away after the shootings.
GRACE: So Detective, no rape, no robbery, no evidence of burglary, no sex assault, no real motive, other than the theory that they were going to testify in an arson case and this was a get-back. Does that guy, the alleged arsonist -- does he have an alibi?
GAFFNEY: Nancy, there`s lots of leads that we`re following up on right now. Once again, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on any of those leads at this time.
GRACE: Oh, you`re a tough nut to crack, aren`t you, Detective! Got a few more moments with the detective. Let`s see what we can do with him.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "Trial Tracking." Andrea Yates -- remember her? Well, she told a fellow inmate they could avoid prosecution by faking mental illness. Shazzam! That`s what court documents say, filed by prosecutors. Yates using the insanity defense in her own trial for the mass murder of her family, her children. A jury didn`t buy the story the first time around. They sentenced her to life. That conviction overturned. Well, this time around, second time at the plate, Yates`s defense is trying to keep the jury from seeing photos of Yates`s little children.
Coming up, the case of missing newlywed, George Smith still unsolved. Tonight, we talk to not only his mom and dad and sister, but the camp from the mysterious and missing bride.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GAFFNEY: Without a doubt, this is a homicide investigation. We`re going to continue around the clock working this case. This is one of our priority cases with the Mesa Police Department.
At this point, we`re not naming any suspects. We just within the past few hours were able to determine that, in fact, it is a homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Nice cars, beautiful home, beautiful furnishings, gated community -- family wiped out. Most peoples aspire to live in a home like this, the ultimate American dream.
Detective Tim Gaffney with us, from Mesa Police Department. Detective, I know you`re heading back to work. I can`t keep you all night trying to crack open the case with you. But tell me this. What are you doing tonight? And have you spoken to this guy who committed arson and two of these family members were going to be a witness?
GAFFNEY: As far as what we`re doing on this case, we still have investigators out at the scene. Our crime lab is working around the clock. We have detectives that are working around the clock. We`re very, very dedicated and committed to this case. We want to bring closure for this family. We want to bring closure for the citizens of Mesa.
As far as this individual goes, once again, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on any of the leads that we`re doing right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): George Allen Smith and Jennifer Hagel seemed to own the future.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George just had a -- I guess you would say a charisma, or a personality, a quality about him, you know, that stuck out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jen Hagel was the type of girl that everyone loved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): They had everything, looks, love, and a long life together ahead of them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was adorable, tall, and very good-looking, and friendly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two were looking forward to, you know, a happy life of being married to George.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we speak not only to the family of George Smith, his mother, father and sister, Bree, but also to the missing bride camp. Remember, she was mysteriously out of her cabin the morning her husband went missing?
Let`s catch up to date with investigative reporter Pat Lalama. Where does it stand right now, Pat?
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: OK, Nancy, here`s the first thing. The authorities have made it clear this case is not getting cold. They are very vigorously investigating. Nothing really new to tell us at this point, but they are on the case.
Number two, one of the very interesting things I think is happening is that the families are looking into charging or at least making allegations to the cruise line that they created the party atmosphere, that they did not vigorously and responsibly watch the activities of the patrons on the ship, and that could have contributed to what happened to George.
Another thing that`s happening, of course, is that Jennifer is using the power of her experience as a teacher. She`s written some safety tips that she`s putting on a Web site now to help other people who have been victimized by these kinds of thing that have happened on cruise ships.
And of course, we`ve got congressional hearings still coming up on the history and the patterns to find out what we can do to make these things not happen again.
GRACE: Well, Jennifer Hagel-Smith went silent -- and, really, can you blame her? -- at the disappearance of her husband. But she did manage to speak to Oprah. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GAYLE KING, GUEST HOST, "OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": I heard that he called you names, and that you kicked him in the groin, and he was doubled over, and that you two had a very nasty fight on the last time you were seen together.
JENNIFER HAGEL-SMITH, WIFE OF MISSING GROOM: And then I stormed off.
KING: Yes. Are you saying that`s not true?
HAGEL-SMITH: I`m not saying one way or the other, but I guess the only thing I would like to say is that, if that is the last encounter that I had with my husband, if that is it, then that is something that I will have to carry for the rest of my life.
I can`t remember anything from a certain time period. We just aren`t angry people, and George would never call me names.
I do not remember the last, you know, words or time we saw each other. I remember very vaguely leaving the casino area to go to this revolving bar or something like that. I was around George, and then I remember nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the missing bride in this scenario speaking to Gayle King, filling in for Oprah.
With us tonight a special guest, first time on the show, Mike Paul. This is Jennifer Hagel-Smith`s spokesperson. Along with James Walker, Hagel-Smith`s lawyer.
To Mike Paul, why won`t Jennifer Hagel answer the direct questions put to her, such as, "Did you kick your husband in the groin? What did you argue about?" Why won`t she answer the questions? Why does she play dodge ball?
MIKE PAUL, JENNIFER HAGEL-SMITH`S SPOKESPERSON: She`s not playing dodge ball, Nancy. First of all, it`s good to see you again. We spent a lot of time together on Court TV, and I`m glad to be on your show.
GRACE: Well, wait until the end of the segment before you say that.
PAUL: That`s fine.
GRACE: So why won`t she answer the question?
PAUL: Well, you can`t answer a question of something that you don`t remember. She`s not playing dodge ball.
GRACE: OK, got it. All right, so she doesn`t remember. When did her memory lapse? What`s the last thing she remembers?
PAUL: As she just said, the last thing that she remembered was being in that bar area with her husband.
GRACE: Being in the bar, OK. Last thing she remembers, being in the bar. So she doesn`t remember an argument, a kick in the groin, and charging off? All right.
You know what? She doesn`t have to, because witnesses apparently do remember it. My question now, Mike Paul, is: Where did she spend the night?
PAUL: She was in the hallway of the floor on which she resided on the -- the floor in which her cabin was.
GRACE: Mike, you`re talking like a lawyer. She was in the hallway on the floor in which she resided. You mean, was she outside the cabin, the stateroom?
PAUL: Nancy, can I ask you a question?
GRACE: Yes.
PAUL: This is a woman who has said that there are portions of the evening that she doesn`t remember.
GRACE: Right.
PAUL: One of the reasons why -- and I thank you for saying that -- that you started off by saying she -- can you blame her for being quiet during a certain period of time.
GRACE: Right.
PAUL: For six months, for more than six months, she was quiet. She did what the FBI told her to do. She got beat up in the media. She got her character attacked.
Now, we`re at the point now where this is not about Jennifer Hagel- Smith; this is about the death of her husband. This is about foul play. This is about an alleged murder on a ship.
And for us to go back to falsities -- for example, you just talked about something that has been in a newspaper by one individual that said something. There are no facts to back that up. And we`re beyond that now. One of the reasons why...
GRACE: OK, you know what? I`d let you go on, Mike, but we`ve only got 20 minutes left, and I think you may preach to me the whole -- just, if you could just answer the question, was she sleeping outside the stateroom in the hall, yes, no?
PAUL: She was outside the stateroom in the hall, and she was asleep, yes. She doesn`t remember, as I said, what happened.
GRACE: OK, you know what? You know what? Elizabeth was speaking to me in my ear just then. Did you say, yes, she was outside the stateroom in the hall?
PAUL: Yes.
GRACE: OK. What`s amazing to me, having been on one cruise many, many years ago, there are literally hundreds, legions of cruise ship employees that patrol all the time. And I find it very difficult to believe that they did not see a woman comatose lying in the hall, that nobody called and went, "Oh, my god, quick, call 911. This woman is sick. She needs help."
PAUL: That`s a great point. And that goes to the security on that ship. I think that`s an excellent question.
One of the things that we know, for example -- and Jim Walker, who`s here, will tell you more details about that -- but we know that there were very, very few security officials that were on that ship.
GRACE: OK. Hold on.
PAUL: That`s a major problem.
GRACE: Let`s go to him. That`s a good point.
James Walker, nobody saw her, not a security person, not a staff person, not another passenger on the boat, and she was out laying in the hall, not by the pool, not on a deck chair, not in another room, but laying out in the hall, right?
JAMES WALKER, JENNIFER HAGEL-SMITH`S ATTORNEY: Well, what we`ve learned from Royal Caribbean -- and Royal Caribbean has gone on record to say that there is a surveillance tape that shows her coming down to deck nine, coming out of the elevator, and instead of going left towards the front of the ship, she goes right. And she, according to Royal Caribbean, was found in a little alcove, not in the main hallway. She was found unconscious by some not security guards but by a cleaner very early in the morning...
GRACE: OK. OK. Got it.
WALKER: ... after being unconscious for about an hour, hour and a half.
GRACE: OK. An hour and a half?
WALKER: That`s what...
GRACE: So what time does that place her there? If she was found early in the morning, and she had only been there an hour and a half, then where was she when George Smith had a fight in his stateroom?
WALKER: According to Royal Caribbean, she was found at 4:30 in the morning on the opposite side of the ship on the starboard side of the ship -- on the port side of the ship, on the other side of the ship from her cabin, where George was.
So she was literally 500 or 600 feet away from the cabin when she was found unconscious, at the same time that there was noise complaints being made to the cruise line. So she wasn`t...
GRACE: At the very same time?
WALKER: Literally at the same time, based upon the information that the cruise line has been telling us.
GRACE: OK, let me get something straight. James, you`re saying she was found at the same time neighbors reported hearing a scuffle in the stateroom?
WALKER: Well, there`s passengers on the left side of George`s cabin, Pat and Greg Lawler (ph), who actually made a complaint to security right about that time.
GRACE: Was it at the same time? OK, that`s all I was asking.
WALKER: Right.
GRACE: Next question. It`s my understanding that Jennifer Hagel- Smith says that her husband spent the night before -- not that night -- but the night before in someone else`s room.
WALKER: That`s a total -- total falsehood. And I`d like to address that.
GRACE: Please do, because that couple says that`s not true.
WALKER: Because we`ve been asking -- well, it`s a simple matter. There`s no couple that`s ever come out and ever said that George Smith was sleeping in another cabin.
You see, we`ve been trying to obtain the names of all the passengers so we could interview them by ourselves and find out the truth. What we heard back in July, when the cruise line was trying to suggest this was an accident, the cruise line was releasing this type of false information.
GRACE: OK.
WALKER: That`s not true. It`s never been true.
GRACE: But wait, wait. You`ve gone far, far, far beyond answering the question. And I hate to rush you, but I`ve got so many questions for you.
Mike Paul...
PAUL: Yes.
GRACE: With us is Jennifer Hagel-Smith`s spokesperson. Why does Jennifer Hagel-Smith need a P.R. person? I`m a crime victim. I didn`t need a P.R. person. Why does she need a P.R. person?
PAUL: That`s a great question, Nancy. To answer some of the questions that you`ve been asking. And...
GRACE: Well, why can`t she answer them?
PAUL: ... I respect you -- I respect you for asking them, because there`s a lot of erroneous information...
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL: ... quite frankly, there`s a lot of erroneous information that`s been out there for over seven months now.
GRACE: OK, got another question for you.
PAUL: And thank you for the opportunity to clear up the lies, quite frankly.
GRACE: Hey, Mike, did Jennifer Hagel-Smith take an FBI polygraph?
PAUL: Did she take an FBI polygraph?
GRACE: Correct.
PAUL: I have no knowledge of that.
GRACE: Mike Paul, OK.
Let me try James Walker. This is Hagel-Smith`s lawyer. Has your client taken an FBI polygraph?
WALKER: Yes, she took a polygraph administered by a top FBI polygraph expert that flew up from Washington very, very early...
GRACE: OK, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, before I run out of time, did she hire the person who administered the polygraph?
WALKER: Oh, no, of course not. You have to understand, I`m a maritime attorney. Jennifer`s never had a criminal defense attorney.
The FBI arranged for that as a way of excluding her from any involvement. She passed. There was absolutely no deception. She`s the only one who took a polygraph test. We`d like people at the cruise line and some of men in that cabin to take a polygraph test.
So she has been found fully vindicated. She`s not a suspect. She`s been completely cleared.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY LEE, FORENSIC INVESTIGATOR: This become a cold case six months later. It`s a very difficult case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Turkish police had been there, done a full forensic investigation, photographs, fingerprints, blood samples. They took, in fact, evidence from that cabin throughout the day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The controversy and the mystery surrounding the missing groom case is raging on, but what about the investigation? We just heard, finally, from the Jennifer Hagel-Smith camp. That is the bride that went missing the night her husband, many of us believe, was killed.
Joining us right now, George Smith`s family, his mother, his father, and his sister, who bravely have not given up.
Straight to Bree Smith -- this is George Smith`s sister -- Bree, what do you make of what you just heard?
BREE SMITH, SISTER OF GEORGE SMITH: Well, I don`t want to comment too much on the story. But what I do know was that Jennifer Hagel-Smith was found at 4:30 in the hallway further down the hallway from my brother`s cabin.
And from what I understand, Royal Caribbean crew members, three crew members from their own statements, went back down the hallway to see if my brother was there, and he was not in the room. They entered the room. You know, they obviously must have turned on the light to look for my brother, did not notice the blood in the cabin, ignored the fact that there had been complaints on both sides of my brother`s cabin, and then got Jennifer and returned her to the cabin in a wheelchair with no concern about where my brother was.
Really, they should have realized that a crime had been committed in that room at 4:45 or 4:30 in the morning, not 8:30 in the morning, when they saw the blood on the overhang.
GRACE: Also with us, George and Maureen Smith. This is George Smith`s parents.
To Mrs. Smith, Mrs. Smith, it`s a real pleasure to have you, and your husband, and your daughter.
MAUREEN SMITH, MOTHER OF MISSING GROOM: Thank you.
GRACE: How do you keep going every day? There are crime victims all across the country listening to you right now. How do you keep going, missing George, your son?
M. SMITH: We believe that the FBI will solve this case, Nancy. It`s a very, very active case. And that was reconfirmed to me just two days ago. And that`s how we keep going, because we have to get justice for George.
And we`re filing a lawsuit against Royal Caribbean. And that`s how we`ll get answers, as well. And once we start finding out, we have to find out what happened to George. And it will not go unsolved.
GRACE: Back to Bree -- this is George Smith`s sister -- I know there have already been some congressional hearings, although the cruise line totally pooh-poohed them right here on the show. Bree, are there going to be additional congressional hearings into the cruise line industry?
B. SMITH: Yes, there is, Nancy. In fact, the next hearing will be on March 7th. And we`d love to join you around the time of the hearing and speak with you about that hearing, as well.
But on March 7th, there`s actually going to be several, numerous victims that will be speaking at the hearing, as well as our attorney, Bret Rivkind, who will be speaking as an expect on maritime law.
The victims that will be speaking will be two families of missing passengers, two rape, sexual assaults, crime victims, and also one robbery victim.
So I think this is a great chance for the victims to have their stories heard. You know, a lot of people know about my brother, but, unfortunately, many of the other victims haven`t had their stories heard. So we`re very pleased that Congress will be another hearing.
And, actually, three or four of the members of the organization that we formed with Kendall Carver...
GRACE: Right.
B. SMITH: ... will be speaking. That`s International Cruise Victims.
GRACE: To George`s father, also named George, George Smith, let me ask you the same question I asked your wife, George`s mother. When I look at these photos of George Smith, you know, he`s all-American, scrubbed in sunshine, his whole world ahead of him. How do you keep going?
GEORGE SMITH, MISSING GROOM`S FATHER: Sometimes it`s very hard, Nancy. We keep going because we`re searching for justice for George. Every day, we hope that there`s breaking news that FBI has solved this crime and we can get justice and go on. Basically, that`s what we`re really looking for, the FBI to solve it.
GRACE: What do you make of the investigation so far, Mr. Smith?
G. SMITH: I think it`s very active, but I`d like to also say one thing, Nancy. I`ve come out with some new information on the time line. Basically, we know that security came to George`s room at 4:05, two security guards. The lawyers came out, and they told them that there had been a violent fight in the room...
B. SMITH: It was 4:30. Sorry, Dad, 4:30 that they had come to the room, too. The complaint was at 4:05.
G. SMITH: Oh, OK. The complaint, and then 4:30. And then we know that Jennifer was brought back at 4:45.
But what most people don`t realize is that 10 minutes before Jen was brought back, two Royal Caribbean employees went into George`s cabin looking for George. This has not been out there before. This is a new time line. And we think that, when they went into George`s room, they saw the crime scene, and they would have realized that something had gone down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, we remember Army Specialist Marco Ross, Memphis, Tennessee, 20 years old, killed in a mortar attack, Baghdad. He dreamed of college and starting his own business back home. Ross didn`t make it home to Memphis, but he will always be an American hero.
What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Chief suspect, Aruban judge`s son, Joran Van Der Sloot speaks out telling yet another version of the night the 18-year-old Alabama beauty vanished off the island of Aruba.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, LAST SEEN WITH NATALEE HOLLOWAY: If I could have the moment back, I would have made sure she got back to her hotel safely, but I can`t change that now.
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: You know, why would Joran have fabricated stories so early when we appeared on the island?
GRACE: Tonight, more clues revealed by police in the search for a missing 24-year-old, Florida girl Jennifer Kesse, a financial analyst. She vanished nearly a month ago. Tonight, are police closing in on a person of interest?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was put to us that he or she seems to be walking by the same time that something may have happened with the car being parked or what have you. So it`s a coincidental-type thing.
GRACE: A stunning exclusive. A 16-year-old girl plots to murder her own father. But when the plot falls through, he doesn`t want her punished. Tonight, father and daughter together again, answering some tough questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just very angry, confused. I was pregnant. I didn`t really know what to do.
GRACE: The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 26-year-old Sueann Ray. Law enforcement, hundreds of volunteers engaged in searches by foot, by horse, by helicopter, even using tracking dogs. Months later, Sueann`s body discovered in a shallow grave. And tonight, who lands behind bars? Her father-in-law. Are you stunned?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
GRACE: Explain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know, Nancy, you just know. I just know in my heart. Maybe Sueann told me.
GRACE: Twenty years ago today, a beautiful Georgia boy, just 13 years old, Chuckie Mauk, Chuckie shot dead on his little bike.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been 20 years but, to me, it was like yesterday. It`s just a moment since I`ve seen him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Thank you to all of my guests. But most of all, thank you to you for inviting us into our homes with our legal stories.
Headlines from all around the world coming up. I`m Nancy Grace signing off -- can you believe it -- for another Friday night. Until Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, good night, friend.
END
