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Nancy Grace

Investigation Into Imette St. Guillen`s Murder Continues

Aired March 03, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight, the heart-breaking story of a beautiful 24-year-old college student celebrating on the town in New York City. But her night of joy turns tragic. She is savagely raped and murdered. Imette St. Guillen was studying forensics and criminology. Tonight, the sad irony, New York`s top detectives are furiously investigating her murder as they search for a killer on the loose, a killer they fear may strike again.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Tonight, an intense manhunt in New York City for the killer or killers of a beautiful 24-year-old girl, Imette St. Guillen. She went out on the town for a night of fun last Friday, but it turned into a horrific tragedy. Her mutilated body was later found. She had been raped, tortured and murdered. Tonight, as Imette`s loved ones prepare to lay her to rest, we beg for her help in solving this tragic mystery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s an investigation where there are some leads, and the police department`s trying to track down every one of them.

MAUREEN ST. GUILLEN, IMETTE`S MOTHER; She was a beautiful girl. She was, I mean, beautiful inside, also. She was kind. She was loving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s clearly very tragic, and my prayers have got to be with the young lady and her family

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just about everyone is very saddened about it, you know, wondering how something so horrific could happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re studying crime and what we`re trying to prevent is a tragedy. She is a victim of crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shows that we`re dealing with a real sicko. I believe this person is capable of doing -- whatever sick jollies they get out of this, they`re going to do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: First let`s go straight out to "New York Daily News" reporter Michael Daly. He has been tracking this case since it first broke this past weekend. Mike, give us a brief recap of what happened, as far as we know, starting last Friday night.

MICHAEL DALY, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, last Friday night, this young woman went out on the town with a friend. They went to the Pioneer bar on the Bowery in lower Manhattan, and they`re having a good time. And early in the morning, I guess a little after 3:00 o`clock, the friend decided she wanted to go home, and Imette decided that she wanted to stay out a bit longer. And the video camera showed the two of them parting ways outside the bar. Imette went back into the Pioneer bar for a short period of time and then moved on to The Falls bar, nearby over at Kinnear (ph) and Lafayette (ph) Street. And she was last seen leaving the bar. She was wearing a gray coat and white hooded sweater, and that was the last anybody that we know of saw of her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, tell us why authorities suspect, at this point, according to sources, that this was a random crime, that she did not know her attacker? I understand she left that second bar, The Falls, was about 60 feet south at an intersection, and that`s it.

DALY: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So do they believe she was trying to hail a cab? Because at that hour, 4:00 o`clock, approximately, in the morning, she`s going to go to the Upper West Side, the only way she can get there is a subway or a taxicab. She didn`t have a car. So she certainly can`t walk.

DALY: No, I would say -- well, she was a walker. I mean, she did like to walk. But I would say that she`s not going to be, probably, at that hour, having been up -- she started the day down in Florida. I`d say she probably was looking for a cab more than the subway at that hour.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And in fact, Mayor Bloomberg has a statement that he`s issued about the taxicab theory. Let`s hear it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK CITY: Thousands of people that hail cabs every day are safe. I don`t know there`s any truth to this, and if there is, we`ll certainly, I hope, catch the person that does it. The city does have a process where you have to have licenses. You should make sure, before you get into a cab, you know what you`re doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s go straight out to former prosecutor Wendy Murphy. There was another very crucial event at 8:30 PM, approximately, Saturday night of the next evening, a 911 call comes into authorities. I believe we have a transcript of it from "The New York Post." We can read it to you.

The transcript says, "Operator: Hello? 911. Caller: I think there`s a body over at Fountain and Seaview. Operator: How do you know? What do you see? Caller: It looks like a body. You should send someone to take a look at it."

What does that 911 call mean?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, what a good question. I hope we can sometime hear the voice because I think the voice will add a lot to whether we think this is a person who might have been involved, or literally a witness who was afraid to identify themselves but was concerned about what they might have seen. I mean, this could be someone who was involved in illicit activity, so didn`t want to identify themselves, but wanted to do the right civic thing.

Or it could be a serial killer, someone who gets a kick out of not only torturing and sadistically abusing and murdering people, but then playing a little game of "gotcha" right after the fact. That`s, I think, what people are most afraid of. And I hope, because that call is so crucial, that we sometime can hear who that person sounds like or whether we can even identify anything, whether suspicious or not, from what the inflections are like in that report.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, Wendy, you bring up a very important point. I grew up in New York. I remember the Son of Sam era, where woman, especially women with long dark hair, which I had, were terrified. Is New York in fear again tonight?

MURPHY: Well, you know, how can you not be afraid of a random act of violence when you`re any person, but especially a woman? You know, I think one of the most grotesque things I`ve heard about this case is people suggesting that she shouldn`t have been out that late. Now, 4:00 AM is damn late for me. I`m too old to stay up that late. But 4:00 AM for New York is not that late. And no one should judge this woman because the fact that she was out is her constitutional right. She has the right to drink. She has a right to walk around. She has a right to do any damn thing she pleases lawfully, and that doesn`t give anybody the right to take advantage of the fact that this might have been a vulnerable time at night.

We have to always talk about these moments as moments of vulnerability, not liability, and never, ever, ever suggest there`s any kind of blame that`s appropriate to lay on this kind of woman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely, Wendy! In fact, she was studious. She was an honor student. She graduated from George Washington University with honors, and then she was studying at John Jay College in Manhattan, the Upper West Side of Manhattan, and she was on the graduate dean`s list. This was a studious girl.

We have a friend of Imette`s with us tonight, Amy Short. We thank you so much for joining us. We know this must be very difficult for you. We know her family and friends are devastated. Tell us about Imette. Tell us about her spirit and her ambitions and her focus.

AMY SHORT, FRIEND OF IMETTE ST. GUILLEN: Thank you for having me here, and thank you for bringing this story to the attention of the public. Imette was a very honorable girl, a very focused individual, someone who was full of life and full of energy. She -- she just was as wonderful and kind and fantastic a person as you could ever be lucky to meet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, we were talking about what Wendy just said a moment ago, not to judge Imette. It was a long night, and our sources tell us she had approximately six drinks over five hours. Nobody is saying that she was intoxicated, Mike Daly from "the New York Daily News." There`s been no report from a bartender or from the videotape that says she was staggering or anything. Apparently, she wasn`t intoxicated, is that correct?

DALY: That`s my -- I have not heard anything to suggest that she was at all, you know, inebriated or in any condition that would, you know, leave her more vulnerable than just someone walking off down the street.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, this is a crime, apparently, possibly perpetrated by a total stranger, and that`s one of the reasons that this city is in fear. Look at the police, 150 of them today, in a grid, searching over the area where the body was found. We`re going to get to that in a second, but this city has responded. And let`s hear from Mayor Bloomberg about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLOOMBERG: It is very tragic with this young lady. What I always think about is, it is very tragic with everybody that gets murdered or victimized or suffers. And unfortunately, we only focus on a handful that happen to capture the imagination of the press.

Our objective is to make this city safer in every single neighborhood, to give every citizen of this city the kinds of security that they should have, that they can go out and walk the streets and enjoy life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Larry Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, you teach at the very school where Imette was set to graduate with a master`s degree with honors. We`re going to get to the horrific forensic details of this case in a second, but first, what`s the mood at John Jay College?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, you know, we`re a very tight-knit community. There are 14,000 students. About 2,000 of those are graduate students. We have administrators, faculty and students. And it`s a -- although it`s large, it`s a tight-knit community and people are absolutely devastated, heart-broken, shocked, and they are in a state of mourning. And as you know, there is a scholarship fund that the honor society at John Jay College, the criminal justice honor society, put together. And we`re doing everything we possibly can to work with law enforcement and help solve this horrible, vicious crime.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that being said, we must now address some of the almost unspeakable aspects of this case. Tell us, Doctor, the condition of her body when it was found. What was done to her body?

KOBILINSKY: Well, there are indications, first of all, that her hair was chopped off. I interpret that as meaning that the individual who did this wanted to degrade her, defeminize her, show her that he was in total control. There are indications that there are marks on her chest. I suspect these might be bite marks. If that`s true, there may be saliva present. That means there may be DNA present.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was apparently, though, as well, naked and bound. Can you tell us about that?

KOBILINSKY: She was naked. She was bound. Her ankles were bound with shoelaces. Her hands -- her hands were bound with wire. She was naked. She was covered with this comforter, and her face was covered with a packing tape from chin to forehead. She -- her nose and mouth were covered. It would have asphyxiated her. But on top of that, there was pressure applied to her neck, and that was the direct cause of death. But there were other...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And one final point...

KOBILINSKY: Her genitalia were -- were abused and lacerated. And this individual, this -- this psychotic sex deviate obviously is a misogynist, hates women. Who knows what his childhood is composed of with respect to his relationship with women.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And with that, we`re going to go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. Obviously, Pat, there is an element of sexual sadism in this crime. What are your thoughts?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Oh, absolutely. This guy is a sexually sadistic, psychopathic serial killer, hands down. This is a man who probably spends a lot of time on the Internet studying his sadism, looking at bondage sites, murder sites, anything that will inspire his fantasy.

And what he likes to do is get his hands on a victim and control her and dominate her and watch her horror increase, starting with the hair. The first thing you do, start chopping off her hair, and she`s, Oh, my God, what are you going to do next? When you wrap the face of a victim, you`re controlling their head. They can`t see out. They don`t know what`s going to happen. It`s just one horror after the other, and that`s what he gets off on. That`s how scary this guy is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jeff Gardere, psychologist, we can call him a sicko, we could call him a psycho, but unfortunately, we have to get more specific than that to be helpful. What makes a person derive sexual gratification from bondage and from torture and from mutilation?

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think Dr. Kobilinsky spoke about that just a little bit ago. Usually, this is someone who may have been sexually abused, physically abused, when they were younger. Perhaps the parents didn`t come from an intact family. There certainly may be issues with drinking and with drugs. But certainly, this is someone who`s been humiliated when he was younger, or perhaps through the years, and now is able to vent a lot of this rage against helpless victims.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, I see here that we have now some sort of mugshot that is up there. Dr. Kobilinsky, can you tell me -- do you know anything about this mugshot that has just appeared?

KOBILINSKY: You know, there`s so much speculation and misinformation out there. To the best of my knowledge, there are no eyewitnesses, with the exception of the individual who made the anonymous 911 call. This may be from sort of videotape. I do not know of any witnesses. But of course, the police are obviously withholding some vital information. They may be on the track right now, as we sit here and speak.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s hope so. I know they`re working around the clock on this one.

To tonight`s "Case Alert." After a massive international manhunt, police today captured a top New York lawyer on charges that for years, he paid two underage sisters for sex with their mother`s consent. According to the district attorney, James Colliton was renting the girls from their mother. They were just 14 and 15 when the alleged abuse started. The hotshot lawyer and married father of five is charged with 12 counts, including second degree rape, witness tampering and patronizing a prostitute. The girls` mother is also facing charges.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cops say her attacker probably encountered her on the street or sidewalk and managed to take her away. St. Guillen`s attacker raped her, mutilated her, suffocated her and wrapped her face, hands and legs in packing tape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. We are focusing tonight on New York City`s massive and intensive hunt for the demented killer or killers who brutally raped and murdered a 24-year-old honor student named Imette St. Guillen last weekend. The details of this crime are unbelievably horrific and we mention them only because they are crucial clues that may help determine who did this. And at this point, authorities need the public`s help. They really need the public`s help. If you know anything, contact the NYPD.

Let`s go straight out to private investigator Vito Colucci. You have, apparently, a lot of thoughts on this case, as well as some props. Tell us about it.

VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Yes, Jane. One of the things -- what the police are looking at, if possibly a device like this was used, OK? Now, what this would do, you`d be able to -- this is a packing tape dispenser. You`d be able to pack -- go around this body without touching the tape at all, if this was used properly, OK?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just to jump in a second. I think you`re saying this because you -- we all understand that authorities did not find fingerprints on the tape that was used to bound her face.

COLUCCI: Unbelievable, because if you tried to use this tape, Jane, without a dispenser, first of all, it`s going to tangle itself all up, number one, especially to go around the body as many times as it did. And number two, it leaves unbelievable fingerprints on it if you try to use it. So you can probably get one of your best prints that you can out of anything on a piece of tape of this nature.

So this could be used. Of course, there are other items that was mentioned, as far as, you know, something that may have been from a moving company, even one of those one-man, two-man moving companies with the blankets. That was a Springmaid (ph) extra large quilt that they use to cover furniture. There`s different ties. I talked to a nationwide moving company today who says a lot of those ties that may have been used on her wrists are used a lot of times in computer stuff, to tie up the wires when you`re moving stuff of that nature.

So you know, the police are looking at every angle. You`ve got a lot of manpower, a lot of training and experience on the New York Police Department. I guarantee you that they got undercover people out as we speak, all kinds of people working the streets, as well as the people inside now scouring the country for unsolved cases.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, defense attorney Joe Lawless, what do you make of this mover, a professional mover or an independent mover theory, because of all of this equipment found at the crime scene?

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, I don`t know if you can really theorize what it is, at this point. You`ve got so many possible variables. You can get a tape device like that at Home Depot. You can get computer ties at the local computer store. It`s a theory they have to follow, but when you see the New York City police doing a grid search at a crime scene, that says to me that they`re looking because they don`t have anything specific, and they`re exploring every avenue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but if you have all this stuff and you`re driving around with it, either you`re a mover or this was a premeditated crime by a real sicko, who is a serial killer or a predator or some person of that sort, who`s looking for a victim, a predator.

LAWLESS: Well, we know -- we know, clearly, the guy`s a sicko. There`s no question that this guy is one brick shy of a full load. But we don`t know where he got that material, how long he had -- had Imette in his presence. He could have gotten it anywhere. You can`t narrow in on a mover or a handyman because they just don`t have enough, at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are going to delve more into this in a moment.

To tonight`s "Case Alert." Thirty -- year-old Ali Gilmore, four months pregnant, is still missing from Tallahassee, Florida. Tonight, we hear from her estranged husband, who finally breaks his silence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES GILMORE, ALI`S ESTRANGED HUSBAND: Anyone that knows me as a person has clearly expressed to me right from the beginning that they don`t see my involvement anywhere in -- into her missing, or whatever. And PCD (ph) has pretty clearly let me know that they don`t feel like I have any involvement in this, as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Also tonight, William Craig Miller, an investigative lead in the case of a mass murder in Mesa, Arizona, in a home there. He also speaks out. According to newspaper reports, he says his friends have made sworn statements that they were with him in the early morning hours of February 21, when those murders took place. Two of the murder victims were set to testify against Miller in his upcoming arson trial. Miller, though, not a suspect tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAUREEN ST. GUILLEN, IMETTE`S MOTHER: She was a beautiful girl. She was, I mean, beautiful inside, also. She was kind. She was loving. She wouldn`t hurt anyone, and she wouldn`t want anyone else be hurt (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Who would possibly want to subject another human being to the horrific and unspeakable brutality that was visited upon 24-year-old Imette St. Guillen last weekend? That is what New York City`s top detectives are determined to find out. They`re poring over all the evidence they`ve collected since the graduate student`s mutilated body was found in a lot in Brooklyn last weekend. The hunt for a suspect is on. They need the public`s help.

Wendy Murphy, I want you to take a look at this sketch that we have. And we`re going to throw that up on the screen in just a second. Take a look at this sketch of this suspect. Now, I can tell you that this person was somebody who posed as a cab driver in Queens on February 23, picked up a woman, allegedly sexually assaulted her and then threw her out -- so a pretend cab driver. We`re not saying it`s a suspect, according to police. They`d like to talk to him. What do you make of it?

MURPHY: Yes, I mean, one of the questions I was thinking about earlier is although we`re doing this profiling analysis and suggesting that because there was the blanket and the ties and the tape, all of which suggests that it could have been a mover, it`s also been suggested that the profile`s consistent with a cab driver. But of course, you know, New York cab drivers have a reputation that`s quite good, and so you don`t expect cab drivers to be serial killers. But we know that there are gypsy cabs, which is to say it could have been a guy pretending to be a cabbie. And if he`s done it before, police probably are looking at patterns and profiles of behavior.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): By the time her lifeless body was found that night, she had been raped, strangled and bound with packing tape. The grad student`s body was wrapped in a floral blanket. Where did that come from?

Still, this investigation is wide open, and now St. Guillen`s family is speaking out. They are sharing their devastation and pleading for help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell sitting tonight for Nancy Grace.

Twenty-four-year-old Imette St. Guillen went out to have fun with friends, a little well-deserved fun. Last Friday night, they were in lower Manhattan. The friend left but spoke to Imette on the cell phone minutes later. She was OK, and then something went horribly wrong.

Now, Imette is dead, having been raped, brutalized and murdered. And New York City Police are racing to find the killer or killers before anybody else gets hurt. They need the public`s help. There is a reward of $42,000 for information that leads to finding whoever is responsible.

Let`s go out to Mike Daly, reporter from the "New York Daily News." Obviously, this is the top priority, the top priority of the New York City Police Department. There was a grid search today. Tell us about it. I understand 150 officers were involved, at least.

DALY: Well, a grid search is exactly that. They take a grid, and they search every inch of an area, hoping that they`ll find one tiny piece of evidence that might help them catch this fellow.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What area were they searching? Apparently, the area where her body was found, which was about a mile from the diner where the 911 call emanated from, is just a very desolate, blighted area. Tell us about it.

DALY: It is. It`s almost like a swampland without even the water. And it`s about as different a place as you can imagine from where she disappeared. It`s a place that there have been many bodies dumped there over the years. It`s right off the Bell Parkway, which would make it easy for someone to get on and off. And there usually aren`t too many witnesses around, which is the prime attraction, I think, for someone who wants to get rid of a body there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact, I had read that authorities said this was sometimes the kind of area where a mob hit would occur or a drug deal that went bad, you`d find that kind of a body there.

DALY: Yes, I`d say just about every bad guy in Brooklyn knows about Fountain Avenue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go back to Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor. What about the videotape issue in this case? We know throughout lower Manhattan, throughout Manhattan, there are plenty of videotapes. There`s one videotape showing Imette and a friend parting ways at the first bar. And then Imette leaves and walks to the second location. Police apparently are going door to door looking for any other security cameras. Your thoughts?

MURPHY: Yes, I mean, you have to hope that there`s something, because that can make a big difference in a case like this. I mean, no one`s disputing that we have good evidence and good potential additional evidence that`s yet to be uncovered.

There have been reports that there was some DNA testing under way. We don`t have the results yet. And, you know, hopefully that matches somebody in the database. That`s wonderful.

But if this ends up being a mystery because no one has seen anything remotely related to a man in her presence and there`s no DNA evidence that we can match, you know, it`s going to make this case very difficult to solve.

It`s not like the Natalee Holloway case, where you sort of know who the suspects are but you can`t prove that a crime occurred; it`s sort of the opposite. You know damn well exactly what happened. You have a good sense of what kind of guy did it.

But I`ll tell you: I don`t think this is the first time this guy did this, because he seemed too damn good at it, in terms of knowing where to dump the body, knowing what kinds of implements to use. And if he`s got practice, then you got to believe he`s got practice getting away with it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, if there`s any good news, the good news is, Dr. Kobilinsky, they found the body within 24 hours. What does that do, in terms of the investigation?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it triggers the investigation to be a homicide investigation rather than a missing person`s report. Any kind of evidence on the body will be quickly retrieved.

The body`s not deteriorated. So that cause, manner of death, all of that can be determined. The autopsy is very important. There will be a toxicology report. That will indicate the level of alcohol.

Also, let`s not forget: She fought back. She did fight back. Her fingernails were broken. And, therefore, there may very well be the perpetrator`s DNA under the fingernails.

And I`ll tell you something else. Most of the time, this kind of evidence under the fingernails, the scraping, does not turn out very good information on the perpetrator. However, the medical examiner`s office in New York City is doing some very, very sophisticated work with low copy number DNA. And, therefore, they very well may be successful.

Why they haven`t developed a profile as yet, I don`t know. The only other thing -- let me just mention -- is that let`s recall the BTK killer, bind, torture and kill, and then taunt the police. It sounds to me like a very similar scenario that`s going on here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, how horrible. That`s the last thing New York City needs is some sort of serial killer.

Criminal profiler Pat Brown, if they get all this DNA evidence and yet this killer doesn`t have a criminal record, does it really help them? Because that was the situation with the BTK killer. As you may recall, they found DNA evidence at the first scene. But, of course, that was many years when the technology wasn`t as good. And also the BTK serial killer, Dennis Rader, had no criminal record.

BROWN: That`s right, Jane. And that is a problem with serial killers; many of them do not have criminal records, and that`s what they know when they go into this. Some of them don`t even worry about leaving that DNA because they figure, yes, you`ve got that body, like you said, but you don`t have a clue who in New York City this is.

And I also disagree that this guy -- I don`t think the 911 caller is the killer, because he went to a lot of work to hide the body in a place where he thought it wasn`t going to be found for a while. That`s a guy who wants to get away with his crimes. He`s gotten away with it before. I guarantee you he is a serial killer and he`s done it before. And the 911 call is probably some poor schmuck who is darned if he`s going to give up his name, because he`ll become a suspect right away. I wouldn`t do it if I were him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, should woman in the five boroughs of New York City, Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island, be taking precautions? Should they be doing something differently tonight? Or we don`t want to provoke any fear that`s unnecessary, obviously?

MURPHY: You know, Jane, I tried to duck that question earlier, as you probably noticed. There`s nothing I like less than saying to woman, "Be afraid. Be very afraid. It`s your responsibility to protect yourselves from the bad guys who are trying to kill you."

I want to send the opposite message to the bad guys, "You be afraid. You be afraid, because we will hunt you down, and we will catch you. And if you`re lucky enough not to be killed before the police get a call, then you will be prosecuted."

That`s the message I like. Look, every woman in New York has a right to go to a bar to drink, to stay out until 4:00 in the morning, and not be harmed. And the message has to...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I totally agree with you. I mean, I think that, to make any suggestion that she shouldn`t have been out at that hour, is absolutely ludicrous. She was out with a friend, and that`s her right.

MURPHY: But, Jane...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, are woman supposed to behave differently than men just because men prey on women?

MURPHY: No, but this is exactly the response to your question that I think we have to talk about. If women should be afraid, then I guess women aren`t as free, are we? Because you asked me a question, "Should women now be afraid?" I don`t even hear anybody suggesting that men should be afraid.

Look, I think everyone needs to protect themselves as well as we can. We need to do risk reduction. We need to think about the people that we`re around. We need to be afraid of even the seemingly nice-looking people, like Scott Peterson, as well this sort of scary serial killer-types. But...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And psychologist Jeff Gardere, we also need to be asking ourselves, as a society, every time one of these crimes comes along: Why? Why are we producing these kinds of people who do this kind of stuff?

GARDERE: Because we have a lot of very sick people in our society. You know, there are a million stories in the Naked City. And so for us to -- and we talked about this earlier -- to say, well, this may be a cab driver. It might be a moving person. Hey, it might be Uncle Ned next door for all we know.

We know that a lot of these people who have been involved in these very horrific crimes live very seemingly normal lives; however, we do see the seams. It starts to show that they are sadistic, that they are very angry individuals, that they abuse their children, they abuse other people`s children.

But I think we need to be aware that this can be anyone. And, yes, we do have to take precautions, all of us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like such a horrific crime. And to have a young person from here involved in something like that is devastating to everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLOOMBERG: It`s an investigation where there are some leads, and the police department`s trying to track down every one of them. When we have anything, One Police Plaza will announce it. It`s clearly very tragic, and we should -- our prayers have got to be with the young lady and her family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were studying crime. And, you know, we`re trying to prevent it. And, you know, it`s a tragedy, you know, that she is a victim of crime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most everyone is just trying to honor, you know, her, her dreams of law enforcement and criminal justice. And, you know, everybody really wants to see that justice is done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Who killed 24-year-old Imette St. Guillen? That question has New York City police detectives working around the clock right now. This beautiful, studious honor student who was set to graduate this spring with a master`s in forensic psychology from the very prestigious John Jay College of Criminal Justice was last seen alive in lower Manhattan, where she had been celebrating last Friday night. Her raped and mutilated body was later found in a Brooklyn lot. Police need your help.

Let`s go straight out to a woman who was a friend of Imette`s, Amy Short. We have been talking about all of these horrific details of the crime, and I know it must be very disturbing for you, as it is for all of us. Let`s remember the person, the three-dimensional human being who we are also honoring tonight.

Tell us about Imette and how you knew her.

SHORT: You`re right; that`s so important. Imette was part of the dodgeball league that I`m apart of. I knew her for about a year socially through the sports club.

It`s a league where people join to make new friends, and meet new people. And she came and joined us about a year ago. She played for a couple seasons, took a few seasons off, and came back again.

She basically played with us when her schedule at school permitted it. She was very a studious, very serious student, very committed to her studies, very committed to her goals. She came and she just lit up the room when she walked into the gym, or afterwards we would go to the bar so that everyone could hang out and get to know each other a little better.

Her smile, her presence just sparkled all the time, always. She would play games, you know? She was a tiny thing. And lots of women might be a little bit afraid to play dodgeball because the guys might throw hard now and again.

If anyone threw hard at Imette or anyone on her team, she would march right up to the center line. She would stop the whole game and she would say, "Hey, we`re here to have fun, and have a good time, and we`re here to make friends. No one`s going to like it if you hurt anybody."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she was athletic, as well as brainy and beautiful. What a terrible tragedy. What a waste. What a loss, for all of us, really.

Dr. Kobilinsky, I understand that she had no boyfriends right now, but all her male friends and acquaintances have been asked to submit DNA samples, which they have all agreed to. So hopefully those people can be eliminated and authorities can focus more on the real killer. How does that process work? Tell us about that.

KOBILINSKY: Well, that`s absolutely right. These samples are called elimination samples. And they`re only useful if you have evidentiary DNA.

Now, the DNA could come from saliva. It could come from tissue under her fingernails. It could come from even the quilt, because when you touch something, you slough off cells. Those cells have DNA, and we have the technology now to collect all of that and get a genetic profile.

What you can do with that then is go to a database. If the person has crossed state lines, committed crimes elsewhere or is in a local database, you will turn up a suspect. It`s very much like fingerprints. You can turn up a cold suspect. You get a name out of that latent fingerprint. So, you know, which is very helpful.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, people might be wondering, well, why was she celebrating? Well, she would have turned 25 years of age yesterday.

Dr. Kobilinsky, once again, you taught at the very school where she was studying forensics. This is kind of an off-the-wall question, but I think that it may be appropriate. We may glean something from it.

It is possible, because she knew so much about forensics, that if she -- as she was attacked, she might have been thinking about how to leave evidence?

KOBILINSKY: Well, that`s a very good question. I`m afraid that -- it may be true. I mean, she must have read about psychopaths in her studies. She knew what was going on. She was smart. She probably would have tried to leave some signal, some evidence.

But, unfortunately, when you`re bound, and tied, and gagged, you can`t holler out. There`s not much you can do. What I am hoping for is that the material that we don`t have, the rest of the hair that was chopped off, the cell phone, the clothing, the jewelry, the shoes, whatever that was, could be in the hands of whoever did this, as a souvenir, very much, again, like Dennis Rader, BTK. I think that was part of what this grid search was all about, that you`re watching right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And everything that you`re saying indicates that we are dealing with a very, very sick individual. Let`s hear what retired New York City police detective Bo Dietl had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BO DIETL, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: It shows that we`re dealing with a real sicko. And this is not a person that I don`t think is going to stop. I think this person is capable of doing whatever sick jollies they get out of this. They`re going to do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is such a disturbing case. And one of the things that I heard that was really so ironic and disturbing, Michael Daly, reporter from the "New York Daily News," I understand that, when she was an undergraduate at George Washington University, she actually was a rape counselor?

DALY: That`s true, she was. And she went on to study forensics and then she went into criminology. And as her friend said on that clip, I think her idea was to make less crime in the world. And hopefully, from her death, we can all learn something out of this, so...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, certainly. And it`s just so difficult for all of us. And I think I speak for all of our panel tonight to discuss this, nobody wants to discuss these horrific details and go into all this graphic stuff. We have to do it because police need the public`s help.

And anything, anything that might key off a thought from somebody, let`s say, in Manhattan or Brooklyn, call the New York City Police Department. It`s absolutely urgent.

Quickly, to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for this man, John Henry Ramirez, wanted in connection with a 2004 murder of a man in Corpus Christi, Texas, and a robbery that same day.

Ramirez, 21, 5`7", 160 pounds, brown hair, green eyes, the word "Death" tattooed on his right forearm. If you have any information on this man, call the FBI at 713-693-5000.

Local news next for some of you. We will all be right back. And, remember, live coverage of the Lita Sullivan Atlanta socialite murder trial 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.

Stay with us as we remember Army Private First Class Nathan Stahl, age 20, of Indiana. Stahl died when his vehicle was struck by an improvised explosive device. Stahl graduated from Highland High School just outside Gary, Indiana. One of his friends remembers him for his big heart. Nathan E. Stahl, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched all of our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Jim Sullivan, millionaire businessman, on trial, 19 years after the fact, for the hit man execution murder of his socialite wife, Lita.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never spoke to her again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did hear something fall to the floor. It was just a...

GRACE: Just released, 911 emergency calls reveal in detail the massacre of a family of five, including two children in their own home, Mesa, Arizona. No suspect. Motive still a mystery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s definitely something going bang, bang.

GRACE: The family desperately looking for Ali Lisha Gilmore. This lady, four months pregnant. Won`t you help us help police find Ali?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We really want you home. I really love you, too. Come home, Ali.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Human remains were located at a rural location in the Ingham County.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cause of Ricky`s death is homicide by unspecified means.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lisa had hit Ricky with a hammer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole family is devastated that he`s just -- that he`s just gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ricky, if you see this, just please come home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lisa Holland is innocent until proven guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kimberly Camm, son, Bradley, and daughter, Jill, were found shot dead in their garage in Georgetown, Indiana. David Camm was arrested.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted that free life. His family was weighting him down. They want justice, and they have faith that this jury will do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think anyone can give us closure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a beautiful girl. She was, I mean, beautiful inside, also. She was kind. She was loving. She wouldn`t hurt anyone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We want to thank all of our guests tonight for their insights. And thanks to you for helping us track these very important cases.

Coming up, headlines from around the world. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace. We hope to see you right here, Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, have a terrific weekend.

END