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The Situation Room
Interview With Former FEMA Director Michael Brown; Former Congressman Sentenced to Eight Years in Corruption Scandal; President Bush Visits Pakistan; New Challenger For Hillary Clinton?
Aired March 03, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And, to our viewers, you're now in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you the day's top stories.
Happening now, from the halls of power to a jail cell -- a former congressman sentenced for accepting nearly $2.5 million in bribes. It's 4:00 p.m. in San Diego. We are going to tell you how long Randy "Duke" Cunningham will now spend behind bars in this unparalleled corruption scandal.
President Bush confronting the terror threat in Pakistan -- it is 5:00 a.m. Saturday in Islamabad, where security is extra tight and anti-American sentiment is running very high. We will go live to the Pakistani capital.
And Michael Brown's makeover -- has the former FEMA chief repaired the damage to his reputation six months after Katrina? It is 7:00 p.m. here in Washington, where Brown still is taking on his toughest critics. He's with us again tonight, live, here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
I'm Wolf Blitzer, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Tonight, a developing story, the former U.S. Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham says he ripped his life to shreds, and now he's going to pay the price. Just a short time ago, the California Republican was slapped with a sentence of eight years and four months in prison for bribery. The fate of this one-time top gun pilot, much like the pilot that Tom Cruise played in the movies, is weighing very heavily on Capitol Hill right now.
Our congressional correspondent, Ed Henry, standing by. Let's go San Diego and the courthouse.
Our Jen Rogers was inside when he got the word -- Jen.
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, an absolutely packed courtroom.
Randy "Duke" Cunningham is now in custody, beginning to serve out that eight-year, four-month sentence. It was a somewhat chaotic arrival here at the U.S. courthouse in San Diego for Mr. Cunningham. After that, he addressed Judge Larry Burns and this absolutely packed courtroom, saying that no man has ever been more sorry. He said that every day is a struggle for him, choking up and starting to cry through his words.
He said that: I could have said no and didn't. It was me, Duke Cunningham, and it was wrong.
Now, Cunningham faced a maximum of 10 years, that based on a previous plea agreement, but the judge took into consideration his health -- he said that he has lost some 90 pounds in just the last few months -- his work as a public servant, and also as a decorated military fighter pilot during the Vietnam War -- in the end, the sentence 100 months.
Now, it was less than prosecutes had asked for. They had been going for 10 years. That said, the government said that it is satisfied with the sentence, and noted that this is the longest sentence that has been handed down to a member of Congress for a bribery scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON FORGE, PROSECUTOR: Frankly, today's sentence is a sad, but well deserved ending to Mr. Cunningham's public career. Political corruption is a terrible threat to our democracy, and it is important, because of that threat, that sentences for those offenders be significant.
So, hopefully, this 100-month sentence that Mr. Cunningham received will help restore the public's confidence in our system and respect for our laws.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROGERS: Now, the plea agreement that Mr. Cunningham struck with the government does require him to cooperate. If does he cooperate and deliver something substantial, the prosecutors say they could come back and ask for the sentence to be reduced -- but, again, eight years, four months starting today -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jen, for that -- eight, almost eight- and-a-half years in prison.
Let's go Capitol Hill now, where Duke Cunningham is providing a cautionary tale about ethics gone awry and scandal.
Our congressional correspondent, Ed Henry, has more on this part of the story.
Ed, this must send a powerful shot across the bow of members of the Senate and the House.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.
In fact, it is still unfolding here on Capitol Hill. Tonight, we're being told that the House intelligence chairman, Peter Hoekstra, has actually brought in an outside counsel to conduct a separate investigation as to whether or not Duke Cunningham leaked classified information when he was serving on the House Intelligence Committee, whether he gave classified information to some of those defense contractors that he got the over $2 million in bribes from -- and, as well, in terms of a cautionary tale, as you noted, House Speaker Dennis Hastert tonight issuing a blistering statement, saying, in part -- quote -- "It is my hope that Congressman Cunningham will spend his incarceration thinking long and hard about how he broke the trust of the voters that elected him and those on Capitol Hill who served with him" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: A developing story you're watching on Capitol Hill, tell our viewers what is going on.
HENRY: Well, also, the U.S. Capitol Police, Terrance Gainer has actually stepped down, unexpectedly, we have confirmed.
The significance here is that this is one of most high-profile security posts in America. I spoke to the head of the Fraternal Order of Police in the United States. And he told me that this could make the Capitol less safe, this turmoil, the fact that he's stepping down unexpectedly, such a unique position, hard to find somebody to replace Terrance Gainer. He has been on the job for several years.
So, it's an unexpected development tonight -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed Henry, on Capitol Hill, thanks very much.
Right now, the president is in Pakistan, and he's certainly watching what is going on closely. He wants to know what is happening, of course, with the fugitive Osama bin Laden. Mr. Bush is preparing for talks with a critical ally in the war on terror right now, the president of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharraf.
He's also facing local anger and resentment. Protesters marked his arrival with chants of "Death to America" and "Killer, go home."
Our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux, is traveling with the president. She's joining us now live from Islamabad with more -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it really is amazing, the extraordinary security that is -- the measures taking are taking -- being -- taking place here -- of course, Air Force One landing under a veil of darkness, reporters asked to put down the shades of their windows.
The lights on the aircraft were actually turned off. They landed the aircraft. And, then, of course, there was a decoy when President Bush landed. There was the long motorcade and then two Black Hawk helicopters, and then a bus that came through. You could not tell whether or not the president got into the limousine or aboard those choppers, both of them whisked away.
And then we saw the motorcade, of course, speed off down the deserted roads to that fortified U.S. Embassy. That is where the president is staying overnight -- all of this extraordinary security measures that they're taking. At the same time, across the country, you see these anti-American protests that erupted, this one pictures from actually -- from Karachi, southern Pakistan. This comes, of course, simply a day after a -- two bombs went off in Karachi, Pakistan, killing, outside the U.S. Consulate, one U.S. diplomat and three others -- all of this, Wolf, in anticipation of meetings that are going to take place within just hours. The two leaders will sit side by side.
We expect President Bush, of course, will praise Musharraf for being a close ally in the war on terror, but also telling him that he needs to do more -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne, wherever the president goes, the security is incredibly tight. He can go to Cleveland or Chicago; the security is very tight.
You have traveled with him all over the world. Do you notice different security precautions where you are in Islamabad right now?
MALVEAUX: Well, one of the things, Wolf, that -- for the first time, we actually came on the press charter separate from the president, and we were, as well, asked to put down the shades of our windows, to make sure that our plane was not actually spotted coming into Islamabad. That was something very unique.
And, of course, this is a ghost town. I mean, these streets are very, very quiet. You see security everywhere. It really is extraordinary, when you think about the measures that he's taking.
But I asked the president if it would deter him. And he said, no, that this is making a point here, that Musharraf, of course, who was subjected and who actually survived two assassination attempts, President Bush, of course, willing to reach out to his friend, and say, look, I am going to take a risk here to show you I support the cause.
BLITZER: If he's...
MALVEAUX: Wolf.
BLITZER: ... going to take a risk in any city, Islamabad is the place to do it. It is pretty compact. It is pretty well organized. I have been there. It is the capital of Pakistan.
Thanks very much, Suzanne Malveaux. Be safe over there, traveling with the president.
Before leaving India, the president hailed a landmark nuclear agreement he forged there, calling it a way to put the Cold War behind us.
Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, is taking a closer look at the pact and the criticism that has developed as a result of it -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you say, the deal has huge implications. It could, on the one hand, cement a crucial strategic new alliance, but critics are charging, it could also jump-start an already active Asian nuclear arms race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): The U.S.-India nuclear energy deal is being called historic, unprecedented, the centerpiece of a new kind of relationship with the world's largest democracy.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm confident we can sell this to our congresses in the interest of the United States.
ENSOR: But critics charge, giving assistance to India's civilian nuclear energy production will only allow it to build more nuclear bombs.
REP. EDWARD MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This deal will be looked at as a bookend with the Dubai ports deal as an undermining of security in the United States and around the world.
BUSH: Thank you.
ENSOR: That is because, critics say, by rewarding India, a country that built nuclear weapons, in defiance of international efforts to curb them, the U.S. would encourage others to press ahead and build their own bomb.
JOE CIRINCIONE, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT: The lesson Iran is going to draw is, if India, why not us? If we just stand firm, eventually, America will cave.
ENSOR: But supporters say India is no Iran. India has been careful not to spread nuclear technology and know-how to others, unlike Iran, which also deceived the International Atomic Energy Agency for more than 17 years about what it was up to.
RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: India is a responsible country. It is a democracy. And, quite honestly, we do discriminate.
ENSOR: And the president makes another strong argument. The rapid rise of China and India will drive global oil prices through the roof, unless some of that demand for energy finds another supply.
BUSH: It is in our economic interests that India have a civilian nuclear power industry to help take the pressure off of the global demand for energy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Now the administration must sell the deal to Congress, and the critics are predicting a rough road.
But jobs from better trade prospects with India may sway some votes. And the growing power of China may help convince others that a new strategic relationship with neighboring India makes long-term sense -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David Ensor reporting -- thanks, David, very much.
Zain Verjee is off today. Fredricka Whitfield is joining us from the CNN Global Headquarters with a closer look at other stories making news.
Hi, Fred.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Wolf.
Well, BlackBerry users, you can rest easy. The device for people who just can't live without e-mail access for even a moment is staying online. The company that makes the palm-sized wireless devices is settling a long-running patent suit. Under a deal announced today, Research In Motion Ltd. will pay some $612 million to a small Virginia company.
A judge had threatened to shut down the BlackBerry system if an agreement was not reached.
The emergency contraceptive known as the morning-after pill will soon be on the shelves at Wal-Mart. The retailer says it is ending its longstanding policy to not sell the contraceptive at its pharmacies. Last month, Massachusetts ordered Wal-Mart to carry emergency contraception. The company says it will maintain its so- called conscientious-objection policy. That policy allows employees who don't feel comfortable dispensing the drugs to refer customers to another pharmacist.
In Hawaii, people in low-lying areas of Oahu are being urged to seek higher ground. On parts of the island, more than a foot-and-half of rain has fallen over the past 48 hours. Some residents are taking refuge in emergency shelters. A flash flood warning in effect across the island. Similar weather is being reported on two other Hawaiian islands. One official calls it the worst flooding in a decade -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Fred, thanks very much.
Let's go up to New York -- Jack Cafferty standing by once again with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Do you watch the Oscars?
BLITZER: Of course.
CAFFERTY: Do you?
BLITZER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: What if Hollywood rolled out the red carpet and nobody cared? It could happen this year.
Seventy-eighth Academy Awards are held on Sunday night this week. And one columnist calls the Oscars the SAT of television, progressively irrelevant, not much fun, out of touch with their audience, the columnist's words.
TV ratings have steadily declined for the Academy Awards show the last few years. And this year's best-picture nominees, "Munich," "Crash," "Capote," "Good Night, and Good Luck," and "Brokeback Mountain," were all pretty dismal at the box office. Some say it is because the message of many of these films is too political, talking about gay cowboys, race relations, gay writers, the McCarthy era, and terrorists.
"The New York Sunni" reports that, since 2000, the five best- picture nominees together have grossed, on average, a total of $607 million. This year's picks have now grossed a total of just $227 million, which is only about a third.
So, here is the question. As we all try to talk at once, are this year's Oscar-nominated films too political? E-mail us at caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile.
For a moment, I thought that was you talking in my ear, Wolf. Then I realized it was one of those cowboys.
BLITZER: I would never interrupt you while you're making good points, Jack.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Thanks very much.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: We will get back to you soon.
Coming up, controversy surrounding Governor Schwarzenegger and whether he's endorsing a gladiator fight.
Also, a new Republican challenger steps forward, taking on Hillary Rodham Clinton. We are going to show you why this race is much more than a race about the U.S. Senate.
And the former head of FEMA back here in THE SITUATION ROOM tonight, live -- Michael Brown standing by to talk candidly once again about the fallout from Hurricane Katrina. We're going to ask him, was he qualified for this job to begin with?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: When it comes to Senator Hillary Clinton, New York Republicans have an unofficial motto: Stop her before she can run again for president.
But the GOP has had a very tough time finding someone to try to unseat Senator Clinton this fall.
Our Mary Snow is now joining us.
There is word that there is a new challenger, someone they have brought in that served in the Reagan administration -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, that's right.
And her name is Kathleen Troia McFarland. And while she may not be well known, her resume boasts some very famous names. And, next week, she is expected to be linked to another big name. A campaign spokesman says all signs are pointing to an announcement that McFarland will look to challenge Senator Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): We caught up with K.T. McFarland at the airport. She's wasting no time jetting off to meet with New York Republican leaders, after being encouraged to run against Senator Hillary Clinton. McFarland won't say who is encouraging her, but hinted where the calls are coming from.
K.T. MCFARLAND, FORMER PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: Yes, there are some in Washington, some in New York state, some in New York City, and some nationally.
SNOW: McFarland last worked in 1985 as a Pentagon spokesman for the Reagan administration. She says she's being drafted to run. As the state Republican chairman admits -- quote -- "We really have to turn our sights on to Hillary Clinton and stop her before she can run for president."
That's because of the numbers. Polls show Senator Clinton would easily beat any Republican contender in the state. And any money she raises can be rolled over to a presidential run.
STUART ROTHENBERG, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The Republicans don't have anybody who can beat Senator Clinton. But they're looking desperately to find someone who is a credible name, a credible candidate, and can make her spend money.
SNOW: Right now, former Yonkers Mayor John Spencer is the sole candidate seeking the GOP nomination, after three others dropped out of the race, Adam Brecht; Richard Nixon's son-in-law, Ed Cox; and, most notable, Jeanine Pirro, whose campaign against Clinton seemed doomed from the day it began.
JEANINE PIRRO (R), NEW YORK SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton -- I'm sorry. Do I have page 10? Who has got...
SNOW: With the absence of New Yorkers challenging Senator Clinton, the bulk of criticism has been coming from Washington. Clinton is fighting back.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Karl Rove spends a lot of time obsessing about me. He has people to the White House. He sends out e-mails. He spends more time thinking about my political future than I do.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And political strategists say that Republicans are hoping that K.T. McFarland will bring more visibility to the New York Senate race, because she's a woman and she's a more moderate Republican who supports abortion rights -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary Snow reporting -- thanks, Mary, very much.
Arnold Schwarzenegger's office says he won't be attending a so- called gladiator fight in Ohio this weekend. The California governor reportedly had been scheduled to watch the controversial bout. It is also known as cage fighting. But Schwarzenegger's office denies that. We're told the governor is going to the overall fitness and body building show in Columbus, Ohio, but he won't go to the gladiator fight, which critics, including Senator John McCain, have called barbaric.
Let's go to our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton. She is watching the story and has more -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, the California governor may not be going to this event, but event sponsors certainly seemed to expect that he would.
These are downloadable brochures and posters online. It is called the Gracie Fighting Championships. It is cage fighting or mixed martial arts. It has various different names and many different promoters out there. If you look at another one -- this one is "Rage in the Cage" -- we can play you some video -- you get an idea of what this cage fighting is like.
There are rules involved that have been brought in, in 2001. Event promoters tell me -- stress that it is safer now. There's no biting. There's no eye-gouging. But there are certainly people out there who have their concerns. New York Governor George Pataki passed legislation in 1997 outlawing it in -- in New York.
In California new legislation passed in September means that they can have these kind of fights there. The first one is happening next week -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thank you very much.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, the former FEMA director, Michael Brown, he's standing by. He's back in THE SITUATION ROOM. He's going to tell us live his version of what caused the disastrous response to Hurricane Katrina.
Also, avalanche at a ski resort -- we are going to tell you what happened with this story as well.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Our interview with former FEMA Director Michael Brown, that's coming up. He's here live in THE SITUATION ROOM.
First, though, let's go to Fredricka Whitfield once again at the CNN Center for some other stories making headlines around the world -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: Hello again, Wolf.
Strong words from Russia's top diplomat for leaders of Hamas -- a Hamas delegation is in Moscow right now. Russia's foreign minister told the Palestinians they must recognize Israel's right to exist, or Hamas will not have -- quote -- "any serious future." Hamas won Palestinian elections back in January. The group is on the U.S. list of terror organizations.
Sectarian tensions are high in the Israeli town of Nazareth, after an incident in a Christian shrine. A Jewish man, said to be dressed as a Christian pilgrim, set off firecrackers in the Church of Annunciation. Police used tear gas and batons to disperse an angry Christian mob that later gathered outside the church. The man and two companions were evacuated.
A close call for some of the world's top high-altitude athletes today -- rescue teams and sniffer dogs combed the slopes, after a major avalanche swept down a mountainside in the Italian Alps. The World Ski Mountaineering Championship is taking place in that area. Organizers say two people were slightly injured -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Fred, for that.
Just ahead, the former FEMA director, Michael Brown, back in THE SITUATION ROOM -- who is to blame for the slow response to Hurricane Katrina? What did the White House do? Did it ignore warnings? A candid conversation live, that's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting.
The former FEMA director, Michael Brown, is now telling his side of what happened in the response to Hurricane Katrina, assessing his own performance, as well as that of his superiors. But is it all part of an extreme makeover?
Our senior national correspondent, John Roberts, is joining us. He has more -- John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, with the exception of his appearance at congressional hearings, for almost five months, disgraced former FEMA Director Mike Brown was almost invisible. But, in the past few days, he has been an almost constant presence on America's airwaves.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job.
ROBERTS (voice-over): If there is anything America loves as much as a spectacular crash, it is a comeback. Former FEMA Director Mike Brown aced the flameout. Now he's trying to fight his way back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "AMERICAN MORNING")
MICHAEL BROWN, FORMER FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY DIRECTOR: I have apologized to the American people for the mistakes that I have made. And I have owned up to those. And I think it's for...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: His rehabilitation is textbook crisis management, find a pivot point, in this case, the public release of videotapes that show him urgently engaged on Katrina...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: My gut tells me. I told you guys (AUDIO GAP) my gut was that this (AUDIO GAP) a bad one and a big one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: ... and try to turn that second look into a second chance.
Jack Gutt is a crisis management expert in New York.
JACK GUTT, CRISIS MANAGEMENT EXPERT: What he has done consistently is appeared apologetic, accepted errors he might have committed, but not accepted his role as an exclusive sort of fall guy.
ROBERTS: It is a long way back for Brown from the image of a deer-in-the-headlights disaster manager. His very public undressing after e-mails complimenting his attire and hurricane television appearances. And questions about cronyism, how he went from horse association to Homeland Security.
His comeback, say experts, is well timed. Like when the administration is weakened by the ports deal and other political troubles.
GUTT: The general public is going to be more receptive perhaps to his assertions that he's making.
ROBERTS: But where Brown's strategy is going off the rails, say some experts, is in playing the blame game. In THE SITUATION ROOM Thursday, taking aim at Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: You have paid the ultimate price. You paid with your job. Should Michael Chertoff do the same? BROWN: I think so.
ROBERTS: That, says Lanny Davis, who helped see President Clinton through the Lewinsky scandal, may be a quick way to lose the all-important sympathy vote.
LANNY DAVIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: I think that Mr. Brown made a very fundamental mistake, and that's why he's not going about it correctly, is when he started to blame people. He had to stay with his first instinct, which was take responsibility, and then not try to shift the blame to somebody else.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: While Brown is quick to point fingers at his former superiors, he is careful to keep his criticism of President Bush in check. So can he rehabilitate himself? PR experts I talked to today think that he can, but they caution it won't happen quickly, and there is always the danger that something else could come out and turn him into the scapegoat again -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John Roberts, thanks very much.
And joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM once again is Michael Brown. Welcome back.
Jeanne Meserve, our homeland security correspondent, is joining us in the questioning.
Let me get your quick reaction to what Lanny Davis, the former White House special counsel, said that it is a mistake for you to go after some others like Michael Chertoff, the secretary. You should instead just be saying, you know what, I take responsibility for my mistakes.
BROWN: And I have done that. But I am not going to do what I've been complaining about for years, and that is the people inside the D.C. -- inside the Beltway don't want to tell the truth. So when Jeanne or you, Wolf, ask me a question, I don't play poker, for one main reason, and that is people can tell when I'm telling the truth or not. And so if you ask me a question, I'm going to tell you what I'm thinking.
BLITZER: All right, I'll ask you this question...
BROWN: Sure.
BLITZER: ... which we didn't ask you yesterday. Were you qualified to get this job at FEMA to begin with? Because the allegations were you were a pal of the FEMA Director Joe Allbaugh, this was cronyism, you came from an Arabian horses association, with real -- with no real experience in emergency management.
BROWN: And in fact, the mainstream media, and I would even say you guys, were part of that, did that. "Time" magazine published an article about saying I inflated my resume, and that article was entirely false. Things like Joe Allbaugh and I were roommates in college. And I've asked my wife many times, do you remember some big guy, you know, flat top guy sleeping in the bed?
BLITZER: But you were friendly with him.
BROWN: We were friends, that's right. But -- and we're still friends, but it's those kinds of details that the media has missed.
BLITZER: But what about the issue? Were you qualified to go from the Arabian horses association, you were the president of that group...
BROWN: Right.
BLITZER: ... to becoming a senior official at FEMA?
BROWN: Yes. And let me describe that for you, Wolf. Probably a third of my career has been involved in state and local government. I started out at the very bottom, working as an assistant to the city manager. And I put together emergency operation plans.
I helped design an emergency operation center for the city of Edmund, Oklahoma, the fastest growing city in Oklahoma at the time. And worked my way up through the ranks. Continued to represent policemen and firefighters in all of their duties, helped the police union negotiate how they were going to respond to incidents.
And then I did, I went to -- practice of law, and then I went to Denver to head up this horse association. And I think the media loves to hear the word "horse" and how does that relate to FEMA? Well, I didn't judge horses or train horses, or anything like that. I was there as their lawyer to clean up the business.
And then, I think most importantly, I think Americans will relate to this, I was brought into FEMA as the general counsel in 2001. And so I was able to learn all about FEMA and had to learn all about FEMA, and worked my way up through the organization.
So I have both the emergency management background, plus the wide experience within FEMA.
MESERVE: I've heard you often say that you managed 160 or so disasters for FEMA. How many of those were major disasters?
BROWN: Well, let's tick those off, because I think that's important for the public to know. The first one, on my watch alone...
BLITZER: As FEMA director.
BROWN: As the FEMA director was the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster. That disaster, we had search-and-rescue operations extended all the way from California through Arizona, New Mexico, and of course in Texas.
And I would say the next major one was the historic outbreak of tornadoes a couple of years ago, where in a 72-hour period we had over 700-some tornadoes from Oklahoma all the way up through Illinois. Some towns totally destroyed.
And then we had the outbreak of the California and all the wildfires in the inner mountain west region, which covered millions of acres, and we had to coordinate that response all over the place.
And last but not least, I've got to get it in, Wolf, last but not least, in 2004, the historic four hurricanes that struck Florida within 60 days.
MESERVE: But emergencies in Florida are a little different than Florida -- than emergencies anywhere else, because they have such an extraordinary emergency resource themselves.
BROWN: Well, they're very good. They're very well practiced, that's right.
MESERVE: Well, it's a little different than Mississippi and Louisiana.
BROWN: Well, absolutely. That was one of my problems in Mississippi and Louisiana, was that they weren't quite as well prepared.
MESERVE: But I've been told that when those Florida hurricanes hit, FEMA had about 30,000 trailers prepositioned, ready to bring into Florida. You didn't have anything like that for Louisiana and Mississippi.
BROWN: We didn't...
MESERVE: And why not? And did it have anything to do with the fact that 2004 was a political year?
BROWN: No. It did not. And I can tell you that we had trailers prepositioned, because we had been getting ready. One of the things I had been trying to do...
MESERVE: Btu how many?
BROWN: I think it was like 20,000, 22,000. I don't think it was 30. I think it was 20 or 22. And for Hurricane Katrina, we were trying to get up to 30,000, to get those stocked in there.
BLITZER: Here is the criticism that was leveled at you from the special House committee report entitled "Failure of Initiative." "According to DHS, Department of Homeland Security officials, Brown had not taken the required Principal Federal Official training program and was not on the approved PFO roster.
It is unclear why Chertoff" -- the secretary -- "deviated from the requirements of the National Response Plan and designated an untrained individual to serve as PFO" -- Principal Federal Official -- "for such a catastrophic disaster," namely Katrina.
BROWN: Well, I didn't go through the PFO training primarily because I helped design the training. And so that's why I didn't go through it.
BLITZER: But don't you think you would have needed that? Don't you think that would have been...
BROWN: Wolf...
BLITZER: Yes.
BROWN: I designed that program. I put together the curricula with the team for the PFOs. So no, I didn't need to go through it. It's like the law professor that's putting together his class in constitutional law, and then saying, well, why didn't you take the exam? Well, I put the exam together.
MESERVE: I want to ask you about the pictures that you see still today on television of the total devastation. The words you hear from people whose lives have been totally upended, and ask you what is your reaction? Do you feel guilt?
BROWN: Absolutely. I feel guilt. There are days when I feel such remorse over, you know, I've second-guessed myself so many times about things that I could have done differently, or things that I could have pushed harder that I didn't do. So, yes, Jeanne, that strikes at the heart.
MESERVE: Have you given donations to Katrina relief? Have you built houses? Have you helped in any tangible way since you've left FEMA?
BROWN: Yes. Yes. And in fact, I've gone -- I've taken on a pro bono client. The name of the organization is Shifting Culture. They're out of Boulder, Colorado. And I'm working very closely with them, where they go in and they work with organizations to help them respond and recover from these kinds of disasters. And I'm devoting all of my time to them.
BLITZER: We're going to take a quick break, but we're going to continue this conversation, so stay with us here in THE SITUATION ROOM. More with Michael Brown live in THE SITUATION ROOM. We'll ask him what grade he gives himself now that he's had a sense to assess his performance. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Now more of our conversation with the former FEMA director, Michael Brown. Also joining us, Jeanne Meserve.
How did it feel to be the butt of so many jokes, late night comedians, at your expense during this horrible period in the country's life and personally in your life?
BROWN: My wife is a school counselor, and she's a darn good one too. And she finally told me something which is going to shock the two of you as being television people. You know what? There is an off button. And so I just learned to turn it off and to ignore it. BLITZER: So if Jay Leno or whatever started telling jokes about Michael Brown, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job," you weren't watching?
BROWN: I wasn't watching. My daughter, bless her heart, Amy, would still watch and occasionally if she thought there were good ones, she would either e-mail me or tell me.
BLITZER: But that must have been so painful for her.
BROWN: It was. It was pain -- but she's also -- she's a very sharp cookie. And she's probably the best politician in the family and she understands what it is all about. She didn't let it bug her too much.
MESERVE: Given all the derision of the agency, not just yourself, are you at all surprised they haven't been able to find someone to run FEMA on a permanent basis?
BROWN: No. And, in fact, most of the people that I know they've either checked references on or talked, or are friends of mine. And most of them say that, you know, it is almost so far beyond repair that they're not about to step into it.
MESERVE: Well, what does that mean for the upcoming hurricane season?
BROWN: Well, and that's why I think it is important for the public to understand what I was trying to do to FEMA while it was in Homeland Security, because if they don't take those recommendations and at least look at them, FEMA is doomed to total failure.
MESERVE: Well, the secretary says he's making moves. He's improving communications. He's improving logistics, customer service. All those things are supposed to be better this time around. Is he doing the right things? And can he take it far enough by June 1st, which is only a couple of months away?
BROWN: I don't think they can take it far enough by June 1st which really scares me. And I know that the governors are all worried about that too. And it also amazes me that, you know, for three years, I complained about staffing levels and budget levels and then the secretary comes out and says you'll have to hire 1,500 more people and give FEMA some more money. Well, where were we for the past two or three years?
BLITZER: Because you've made the point that as part of the Department of Homeland Security, bringing it in that department, that department is much more concerned -- or has been at least -- on a terrorist attack after 9/11, as opposed to a natural disaster. But look back on these past six months. You've had a chance to reflect. Grade yourself.
BROWN: On a scale of one to ten, I told someone today I give myself a five, just average. I could have done so much more. And in hindsight, I failed myself and I failed the system. BLITZER: And remind our viewers, your biggest, biggest mistake that you made, because I'm sure you lived that and relived it over and over again.
BROWN: The biggest one was not being honest with the American public and telling them this is a catastrophic disaster unlike anything the country has seen before, and we are not doing our job well.
MESERVE: What puzzles me is reading those transcripts, particularly the one from the 29th, where clearly officials are grasping that this is an enormous thing. Whether they know the levees have been breached or not ...
BROWN: Right, that's right.
MESERVE: ... they know there is a big problem on their hands. And yet it took days and days and days. What was the choke point? Why didn't things get into Louisiana and Mississippi in a timely basis?
BROWN: Well, it is a combination of two or three things, Jeanne. First and foremost, I've had known for a year that the FEMA logistics system was broken and that our ability to track supplies and get them into devastated areas wasn't working. So if you take that system that is not working and put it in a catastrophe, it completely falls apart.
And I think the other thing, there was this attitude that, you know, we have been so successful -- I used to say that FEMA was -- it was hurt by its own success because we were always able to make it work. Even when we didn't have enough money, we didn't have enough people, we made it work. But in a catastrophe, that caves in on itself.
MESERVE: Does FEMA have to change its name? Is it that damaged?
BROWN: No. I hope not. I would rather see the good name restored for the people who have a legacy there.
BLITZER: There were a lot of stories within the past few months that you've now gone into the consulting business and you're a consultant on homeland security. That caused a lot of jokes out there, a lot of laughter. What do you have to sell? What you selling right now? What are you trying to do with your life?
BROWN: Well, first of all, I'm trying to make a living, you know, to support the wife and the children and everything else. But second of all, I heard a story, so that I'm not telling something about myself and trying to sound self-serving but I received a call from a friend of mine who -- in FEMA, who was at a conference here in D.C.
And somebody asked the question of someone who currently works for DHS, would you really hire Mike Brown to come in and tell you how to fix something? And the guy's answer was, well, of course. He has seen it from the very best to the very worst. And I have seen FEMA from when we were a legacy agency starting on September 11th, going through all of that, going through the creation of DHS, all of those other disasters. I probably had the one unique perspective of DHS that nobody else does.
BLITZER: And do you have any clients? Has anybody hired you?
BROWN: Quite a few have hired me. And I want to say to those clients, thank you. They have been incredibly supportive and many of them have hired me because of this experience.
MESERVE: And meanwhile, how do you cope? You said you turned off the television if you needed to. But do you go to your pastor, do you go to a psychologist? How are you coping?
BROWN: I do. I go two of my pastors, one in that's back in Colorado, and one that was here in Virginia but just moved to Kansas City. And I hope that Tim is watching tonight because Tim and I continue to communicate and the church has always been a very major factor in my life and my wife's life and so that's been very helpful to us.
BLITZER: We want to wish you good luck. Thanks very much for coming into THE SITUATION ROOM.
BROWN: Well, thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: We appreciate it very much. And I want to alert our viewers, THE SITUATION ROOM may be one thing, but later tonight, you're going to be incredibly brave in what you're going to do. You want to tell our viewers what you're about to do?
BROWN: Well, if you want me to promote another show, I'll do it.
BLITZER: You can do that. We're owned by the same company.
BROWN: Oh, that's right. That's right. I'm going to go talk to Bill Maher.
BLITZER: Bill Maher.
BROWN: Yes.
BLITZER: Bill -- "Real Time" with Bill Maher ...
BROWN: That's right.
BLITZER: ... on HBO, our sister network. Get ready, because ...
BROWN: I'm his news maker tonight.
BLITZER: ... he may not be as gentle as Jeanne and I.
BROWN: You know, and if he is, I'll be disappointed.
BLITZER: We'll see what -- you have got a lot of guts. MESERVE: Well, I guess that means we have to sharpen of our knives here, Wolf.
BLITZER: He's a courageous guy.
BROWN: Thank you, all.
BLITZER: Thanks very much.
BROWN: Thank you.
MESERVE: Thanks.
BLITZER: And just ahead, the Oscars -- box office profits are shrinking, so will Americans tune in or out for the awards show?
Jack Cafferty has your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Bottom line on today's market numbers, the Dow, the NASDAQ, the S&P were all down slightly after a profit warning from Intel and a jump in bond yields. But for the week, all three indexes are up.
Jack Cafferty is getting ready for a lovely weekend -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: You know, you do that stock market stuff pretty good. We might have you as a guest on "In the Money" one week.
BLITZER: My pleasure. Whenever you want to invite me.
CAFFERTY: OK. Seventy-eighth Academy Awards will be held on Sunday night. The nominees for best picture this year have political themes to them and haven't done very well at the box office. So the question is are this year's Oscar nominated films too political?
Mike in Greensboro, North Carolina, "Movies are not political enough. When more people know about "The Simpsons" than the constitution and the rights it affords us it is a bad sign. I was 12 when I saw "All the President's Men" and I've never been the same since. We need more movies to draw attention to a political system that is running wild."
Dave in Queensbury, New York, "I don't the movies are too political. I just think they stink. Sometimes I wonder who gets to pick the nominees. It's clearly not the people who are watching the movies."
Bill writes, "Hollywood producers are too interested in who they are and the social value of their creations while forgetting that people watch movies to escape everyday life."
Martha in Virginia, "Too political? To the contrary, this is the first year I find myself making a genuine effort to see all of the nominated films and that is because of their content not in spite of it."
A couple of more, Roberta in Dahlonega, Georgia, "No. Maybe they will actually make the American public start to think a bit about their world and real content, instead of concentrating just on special effects."
And Ross writes this, "One of the most beloved of the Oscar winning films is "The Sound of Music." Austria, Nazis, persecution, flight, this film, especially in its era, was as political as any film today. It's quality story telling and acting that makes these films outstanding, not the politics. What films would be nominated in their place, "Big Momma's House 2"?"
BLITZER: Jack, we have got a few seconds. Give us a preview of your excellent weekend show "In the Money" that airs Saturday 1:00 p.m. Eastern, Sunday replayed 3:00 p.m. Eastern. What do you got going?
CAFFERTY: Well, we have got an interview with a Harvard educated psychoanalyst who is going to talk to us about "Why Working with You is Killing Me." It is the title of a book. That's not about yours and my relationship.
But it has to do with the fact that most of us, the job is OK. That's not the tough part. The tough part is getting along with all of the mutants that we run into in the workplace, whether its management or co-workers who don't respect your space or whatever. She is a pretty interesting bright lady, and it's something I think we can all relate to.
We're on the air Saturday at 1:00 and Sunday at 3:00 Eastern time, and I'll send you a check for the free plug. Thank you very much.
BLITZER: It's an excellent show, Jack. Thanks very much. Have a great weekend.
Let's go back up to New York, Paula Zahn standing by.
Hi Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: So, Wolf, do you think Jack uses that word mutants a little too freely?
BLITZER: No. He likes that word.
ZAHN: A very judicious guy. Thanks Wolf.
Coming up at the top of the hour, something that sounds right out of science fiction but it is already reality. Would you get an ID chip implanted under your skin or is that going too far in the name of security? What if your boss wanted to do that to keep track of what you do on and off the job? Also, have you ever wondered who all of those people are with the movie stars as they make their way down the red carpet? We're talking five, six, seven, eight people trailing along. Well, we're going to take you into the world of the Hollywood entourage at top of the hour.
And, Wolf and I of course have no illusions about our little spot in the universe. We are a party of one when we come to work every day.
BLITZER: Paula thanks.
ZAHN: Unless you changed, Wolf, in the last couple of weeks.
BLITZER: We have to run. Have a great weekend. Have a great show.
Up next, our CNN "Security Watch." Is America's border patrol outnumbered? Why at least one mother is nervous. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Tonight, a CNN "Security Watch," meet a woman who lives on the U.S. Mexico border and never leaves her house without a firearm.
Here is CNN's Miles O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I live seven miles north of the U.S.-Mexico border and right in the middle of the human smuggling trails. Thousands of illegals come through our neighborhoods per night. They're carrying drugs and AK-47s.
When I bring my daughter up to the school bus stop, I always have a firearm with me. Border patrol is totally outnumbered. All I want is a secure border. I want a wall. This is not homeland security. If it is so easy for people to be backpacking drugs right past my bedroom window, why can't terrorists get through?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More than 1.1 million illegal immigrants were arrested last year by the U.S. Customs and Border Protection. And yet Cindy still doesn't feel safe. But there may be a way to fill the gaps in our borders with new technology.
(voice over): Thousands cross the nearly 2,000 mile-long U.S. border every single day. Some scale walls. Some brave rapids, others tunnel their way in. But according to San Diego Chief Patrol Agent Darryl Griffin (ph), it is not just drug smugglers and violent criminals we need to worry about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The real and immediate challenge is the threat of terrorism. We are attempting to identify and locate the needles in the hay stack that wish to do harm to our country.
O'BRIEN: To reduce the size of that hay stack, the agency has installed stadium lighting, secondary fencing and night vision cameras. But even more advanced video cameras and heat sensors may be on the way with the government's newly proposed $2 billion secure border initiative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we would do everything that we can to ensure a secure border because a secure border is a safe border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: That's it for me. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" starts right now -- Paula.
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