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Nancy Grace
Police Question Bar Bouncer in Imette St. Guillen`s Murder
Aired March 06, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE-VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news. As the desperate search for the killer of a beautiful New York City grad student takes a new twist, police are questioning a bouncer at the bar Imette St. Guillen went to just hours before her horrifying rape, torture and murder.
Also tonight: What happened to two proud parents staying at a resort near Cancun, Mexico, a vacation paradise, for their daughter`s wedding? Tonight, we go inside the murder investigation and try to crack it open here on NANCY GRACE.
Good evening, Everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in for Nancy Grace. Tonight: They came to paradise to celebrate a joyous occasion, the wedding of their beautiful daughter. But in a Cancun, Mexico, double murder mystery, Dominic (ph) and Nancy Ianero (ph) were found dead in their resort hotel room, their throats slashed. The dead couple`s family is desperate for help to unravel this case.
But first tonight, breaking news, police have been questioning a bouncer at one of the bars 24-year-old New York grad student Imette St. Guillen visited the night she was brutally raped, tortured and murdered just over a week ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s horrible, and I feel terribly for her family. And I can`t imagine what they`re going through. And I just hope they find whoever did this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was naked. She was bound. Her face was covered with a packing tape from chin to forehead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shows that we`re dealing with a real sicko. I think this person is capable of doing -- whatever sick jollies they get out of this, they`re going to do it again.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: This guy is a sexually sadistic psychopathic serial killer, hands down. And what he likes to do is get his hands on a victim and control her and dominate her and watch her horror increase.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most everyone is just trying to honor her dreams of law enforcement and criminal justice. Everybody really wants to see that justice is done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go straight out to investigative reporter Pat Lalama for the very latest developments in this truly horrifying case -- Pat.
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Boy, I`ll tell you, Jane, you got that right. Horrifying it is. And right now, all eyes of the world are centered, focused right on that 41-year-old muscleman ex-con bouncer. We`re not going to give you his name at this point, but believe me, this is the guy the cops are looking at.
And here right now are the pieces of evidence they`re very interested in -- the fact that he had keys to a secret room that would take you from the bar into the office space, that there are fibers on the blankets that her body was wrapped in that can be matched to, they believe, a cat who lived in that office building. Also, there are body fluids on her body. There`s tissue under her skin. There`s a cell phone call that we know he made from Brooklyn at 6:00 in the morning, and that`s where her body was found.
And you know, a lot of the experts tonight are wondering, if this person is the man or the person who did it, whoever, it doesn`t seem like this would be the first time they committed such a heinous act.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And of course, we have to stress, Pat, that here at the NANCY GRACE show, we always talk about the presumption of innocence.
LALAMA: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This man is not a suspect. He is merely one of many individuals who are being questioned. He has not been charged with anything.
LALAMA: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That being said, this is an absolutely horrific crime that has upset so many people in New York City proper and around the nation.
Let`s go straight out to Dr. Larry Kobilinsky. He teaches at the very school Imette was set to graduate from. Doctor, before we go to these new developments -- and Pat mentioned so many of them -- we have to revisit the crime scene and the horror of the crime itself, what was done to the body, and evidence left at the scene. Can you do that for us, sir?
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, the body obviously was autopsied, and there`s a great deal of information that we already have. She was drinking. We know how much alcohol was in her system. We know that there was tape covering ` her face. That`s very important evidence that needs to be developed to its fullest. We know that her ankles were tied together with shoelaces. We know that her wrists were tied with plastic ties. All of this is very important information. There were cuts...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what about the mutilation?
KOBILINSKY: Well, of course, this was a sexual-deviant type of heinous crime. Her genitalia were lacerated. She was very abused. And the medical examiner suspects that there was rape and sodomy involved.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact, Pat Brown, a noted criminal profiler who has seen many, many horrible cases, says this is one of the worst she`s ever seen. Let`s listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: This guy is a sexually sadistic psychopathic serial killer, hands down. And what he likes to do is get his hands on a victim and control her and dominate her and watch her horror increase, starting with the hair. The first thing you do is start chopping off her chair, and she`s, Oh, my God, what are you going to do next? When you wrap the face of a victim, you`re controlling their head. They can`t see out. They don`t know what`s going to happen. It`s just one horror after the other, and that`s what he gets off on. That`s how scary this guy is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Once again, no suspects in this case, merely somebody, among many, that police are questioning, a 41-year-old bouncer who worked at The Falls, this restaurant where Imette St. Guillen was last seen.
Let`s go straight out to Veronika Belenkaya, "New York Daily News" reporter. First of all, congratulations on some excellent reporting. You managed to interview this 41-year-old bouncer. How did that come about? What did he tell about that night?
VERONIKA BELENKAYA, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, I was given an assignment to follow Imette`s footsteps from the Pioneer down to The Falls that night, the Friday night. So I -- you know, I went to the Pioneer, and I was there until 3:30-ish, and then I ended up (INAUDIBLE) that I`m going to The Falls, where I spotted a man (INAUDIBLE) Everybody left once the bar closed.
I spotted a man standing in the doorway next door to the main entrance of the bar. So I just started chatting with him, and said, Hey, you know, do you know -- you know, (INAUDIBLE) seen that girl Friday night, you know, the one everyone`s talking about? And he said -- at first, he didn`t seem to really remember her, but then, you know, considering all the news reports, he said, yes, that`s probably her. And you know, then he asked me, you know, who I was. So he chatted with me before he knew I was a reporter. And then, you know...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you managed to get some very crucial information out of him eventually. What did he ultimately tell you about that night?
BELENKAYA: He said that, you know, he saw her. She started -- she sat on the bar. She had two drinks, didn`t finish one of them, and that then she ended up -- you know, he said, quote, you know, We walked out. She stood in front of the bar, and we went back in. And that`s when he said he saw the last of her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to just go over that one more time because it`s so absolutely crucial. Did I hear you correctly? Did you say that he said they walked out, meaning he and her together?
BELENKAYA: No, he said -- the way he was saying -- the way he said it, from what I remember the quote, was that, We walked out of the bar, she stood in front of the bar, we went back inside. And he was very finicky (ph) and was very -- you know, it was very hard to, like, not -- not to scare somebody off right away when they`re already a little hesitant to talk to you. So he said...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure. And...
BELENKAYA: ... We went back inside, and the implication was that she remained standing there by herself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh.
BELENKAYA: And that`s when he says he last saw her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In other words, that she left and that he returned back into the bar?
BELENKAYA: He returned back into the bar. That was (INAUDIBLE) that was the implication.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But essentially, he acknowledges having seen her and chatted with her?
BELENKAYA: No, he never said he chatted with her, and he also couldn`t remember what she was wearing, so...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interesting.
BELENKAYA: He didn`t know hair up, down, nothing like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Veronika, one of the reasons why he`s being questioned is that cell phone records show, according to published reports, that he made a cell phone call from Brooklyn at about 6:00 AM. And of course, Brooklyn is the borough where her body was found.
BELENKAYA: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did he say anything about that to you?
BELENKAYA: No, he never said anything about that. He just -- I gave him my card when I saw him, and then he called me on Sunday. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And at that point, didn`t he say something about that he felt he was being harassed?
BELENKAYA: He said he felt -- he said, you know, he felt he was being harassed by cops. He said that, you know, they followed him from his home on the train. There were -- you know, they were sitting there, pretending to be asleep, and he was just kind of, like, you know, a child could figure this out. Anybody who saw a couple TV shows could pretty much figure out that, you know, this is -- that they`re cops and they`re following me. I keep seeing the same guys all over again.
Then he said, you know, They`re outside my door right now. I see two SCDs (ph) right now. They`re following me. They`re -- you know, they`re staring (ph) me down, kind of thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, one of the reasons that investigators are interested in him is that he has a rap sheet. Let`s go straight out to Alex Koppelman, who`s a reporter for "Justice" magazine. I actually have the rap sheet in my hand, but I don`t want to show it because it has his name. We are not releasing his name at this time. But it is extensive. Tell us about his rap sheet.
ALEX KOPPELMAN, "JUSTICE" MAGAZINE: Well, Jane, what he has is a rap sheet of robbery charges, drug charges, and it`s interesting, it doesn`t necessarily really fit the profile for this kind of vicious, vicious attack. With the serial killer attack, you see somebody working up to this kind of thing, and the crimes he has on his rap sheet are not necessarily those kind of crime that you see. Normally, you would see somebody torturing animals, torturing children, something like that, and you don`t have that with this guy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. And Lauren Lake, defense attorney, again the presumption of innocence. I mean, this is just one of many people being questioned. Everybody`s focusing because it`s a new development. But we have to remember, last week, they were talking about the possibility of a crazed cabbie and also a professional mover, were they not?
LAUREN LAKE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly. We are going through numerous, numerous leads, and we have to remember they`re just leads. We`re still in the investigation. We`re looking at the preview of this film We haven`t gotten to the heart of the movie, nor have we run the credits yet. We are investigating.
And so when we look at this man`s actions and we start saying, Well, that was funny. He called "The Daily News." Well, that was weird. We have to understand what kind of pressure this man is under, if, in fact, he is not the person who did this. Can you imagine the fire that he feels to possibly be falsely accused of something? So we have to keep that in mind.
And I think that`s a very important point. Before we started getting in his case, we were talking about this with some about psycho-sadistic crazy man killer. This guy does not fit that profile. He`s a bouncer at a club, yes, with a rap sheet, but it`s a lot of people out there with a rap sheet, and they`re not...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Although...
LAKE: ... out there taping people`s faces up and...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Although, Dr. Robi Ludwig, we`re not revealing his name, but he does have numerous aliases on his rap sheet. What does that tell you?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it means he`s crossed over the line. So you know, just because he hasn`t been arrested for this kind of sexual sadism doesn`t mean he hasn`t fantasized about it and doesn`t mean he hasn`t done deprived acts but just hasn`t been caught yet.
With this type of sexual sadist, sometimes, they feel that they are purifying a woman who is like a whore. Sometimes they feel that what they`re doing is justified, that actually, they`re doing exactly what everyone would do if they just had the courage. And in some cases, they feel that it`s either torture or be tortured.
So this guy sounds quite dangerous. He went after somebody who was beautiful. Maybe he was attracted to her. Maybe he felt she deserved it in some way because, very often, these type of killers do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robi, you`re talking about the killer. And again, we don`t know who that killer is. This person that they`re interviewing, this 41-year-old bouncer, one of many they`re talking to, not considered a suspect. I will tell you that forensic psychologist N.G. Berrill says whoever did this came packing supplies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
N.G. BERRILL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: They know that the person or persons who committed this crime are incredibly predatory. They probably also know that this was not a random event. They had the supplies ready. They were perhaps stalking a victim in or around the Lower East Side, Soho, and unfortunately, they came upon the victim and did what they did.
It`s hard to know if this is the first time or not. I would suggest, however, that whoever did this crime has thought about this a lot, has probably fantasized about this a lot. And that`s normally the case with people who have these kind of impulses and ideas. They think about it and fantasize about it for a long time before they build up the courage or find the right circumstance where they can play that fantasy out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pat Lalama, I want to ask you once again -- you gave us a very extensive list of some of the pieces of evidence that authorities found. Take us through that again because you just gave us so much information. They went into the building where The Falls was located. How many officers went in? What did they find?
LALAMA: Well, I`m not certain how many officers it was, a team, you can guess. But first of all, Jane, the important thing is that there was some question about whether there was a way to get into this upstairs area. It`s property owned by, interestingly enough, Geraldine Ferraro`s husband, although we know that they have nothing to do with any of this. Let`s make that clear.
Anyway, it was found out later, there was a secret -- what they called a secret door, that was locked. He was the only person -- or one of the only people to have keys, all right? That`s number one.
Number two,, her body was wrapped in a cheap motel-style, I think called a Springmaid floral pattern. You know, you know, if you`ve had to stay at a dumpy motel at any point, real cheap comforter-type blanket. And on that blanket were fibers that we understand in published reports are cat fibers that may very well be linked to a cat that resides in that office building.
Number three -- now, here`s where we get really, really specific. There are body fluids that police have been able to gather up. There is -- I think this one`s going to be the one. There`s skin, there`s tissue under her fingernails, Jane! I mean, that`s got to be -- that`s got to help them narrow it down to some degree.
And again, that all-important cell phone call from his phone, 6:00 in the morning. They`ve traced that to an area nearby where her body was found. Now, again...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: ... Jane, we can`t say it`s this guy, but boy, that`s a lot of stuff to look at, don`t you agree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a lot of evidence. Police are doing an excellent job. When we come back, let`s talk to Dr. Kobilinsky what that evidence all means.
To tonight`s "Case Alert." Reports tonight Jermaine Jackson is pulling the plug on his tell-all book after brother Michael Jackson went into a rage and threatened him. Jermaine Jackson allegedly planned to elaborate on Jackson`s suspicious behavior with children and to all but say he thinks the pop star is a child molester. Michael Jackson was, of course, acquitted of molestation charges last year. Jermaine was also reportedly set to reveal that Jackson`s kids are not his own but came from a sperm donor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERRILL: It`s clear that this crime was enacted in a fairly methodical manner. There was a bunch of supplies involved. There were step-by-step progressions, I`m sure, beginning with fear and then torture and then sex abuse and death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, we are focusing on a truly horrific rape, mutilation and murder in New York City. Developments fast and furious in this case, with police questioning a bouncer at the trendy bar where Imette was last seen. Now, he is not officially a suspect. He has not been charged with any crime, but he does have a rap sheet. At the time of her disappearance Saturday, February 25, he was out on parole after serving time for robbery and weapons violations. And police have questioned him to the point where he told one newspaper he is being harassed.
We want to go straight out to Pat Brosnan, retired New York City police detective, now with Brosnan Investigations. You heard Pat Lalama`s long litany of potential evidence. What do you make of it, considering your many years of experience?
PAT BROSNAN, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: First off, Jane, he may not be a suspect at this juncture, but he is certainly, in my view, a person of extreme interest. He`s a five-time convicted -- not arrested, five-time convicted felon. He`s a parolee. He is, by all accounts, a hardened ex- con. He has...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what do you make of the whole idea that the types of crimes he is convicted of -- robbery, that sort of thing...
BROSNAN: I don`t buy into that theory, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... don`t really dovetail with the sadistic sexual nature of this crime?
BROSNAN: Jane, I don`t buy into that theory. Look at the BTK killer. Just prior to his heinous crimes, he was giving summonses as the -- to people who had their lawns -- they were overgrown, in Ohio. I mean, there`s no rhyme or reason sometimes to these crimes.
This could have been an incident that went in a very bad way. Let`s just theorize that they went into the basements, perhaps, she said no, he said yes. It got a little crazy. Maybe there was too much booze involved. Who knows? But it doesn`t necessarily -- these crimes do not necessarily escalate in a exponential fashion. And you can see it time and time again.
So I don`t buy into the fact that an armed robber, someone who`s carried a weapon before, who`s been convicted five times, would not progress to this level of sadistic, sadistic, truly horrific violent sexual crime. I don`t buy into it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Larry Kobilinsky, how do the forensics fit in here? They`re collecting evidence. How do they match up or discount it versus the body?
KOBILINSKY: Well, let me -- let me touch on three very quick things. First of all, we know that she fought back and there`s tissue under her fingernails. Now, I got to tell you that this kind of evidence is not always very informative because, generally speaking, the DNA turns out to be that of the victim. However, there is a possibility that she scratched her assailant. The assailant would have scratch marks, and there would be DNA.
Secondly, the hair on the comforter was from a cat. There`s a lab in Oregon does animal DNA testing, and they should be able not only to determine that that hair came from a particular kind of cat, but they can also do DNA, just like on humans, and tell if the hair came from that particular cat.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But right now, it`s kind of premature. I mean, let`s face it, anybody who has a pet at home, you know that everybody has pet hair. So to say that it`s possibly the cat that`s somewhere else...
KOBILINSKY: Correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... is premature, is it not?
KOBILINSKY: Absolutely. Testing needs to be done. And if, in fact, some of the perpetrator`s DNA is on her body in the form of either semen or saliva or some other body fluid or tissue, maybe skin cells, that will be tested. I`m surprised the testing has not been completed already. If there`s somebody on the data base, because he`s a felon, they would have a match.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to get more into it in a second.
To tonight`s "Trial Tracking." Today, the hitman allegedly hired by an Atlanta millionaire to kill his wife takes the stand in the case against James Sullivan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The best I can remember, Mr. Sullivan told me that he was having problems with his soon-to-be ex-wife. He told me that she was probably going to take him for everything he had, which, from the looks of him, I didn`t think that was a whole lot. But we kept talking. And you know, he was just more or less just feeling me out, I guess. And he asked me if I knew anybody that could possibly take care of his problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anthony Harwood denied ever seeing Lita Sullivan in person, and also said he never planned to take part in her murder. Harwood said all of this under oath, even though he is serving 20 years in prison after pleading guilty to killing Lita Sullivan.
Also in the news today, police announce the arrest of William Craig Miller for a massacre in a gated Arizona community. Police do not believe Miller acted alone and are continuing to investigate the murder that left five people dead, including a 10-year-old boy and his 15-year-old sister.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Imette was a very honorable girl, a very focused individual, someone who was full of life and full of energy. She just was as wonderful and kind and fantastic a person as you could ever be lucky to meet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in for Nancy Grace. Who raped, mutilated and murdered a 24-year-old student named Imette St. Guillen? The beautiful and brainy young woman was set to graduate from Manhattan`s John Jay College of Criminal Justice with a master`s degree -- she was on the dean`s list -- when she went out for a night of celebration in lower Manhattan and never returned home, after last being spotted around closing time at a fashionable Soho bar called The Falls.
Straight to Pat Brosnan, former detective for the New York City Police Department. What about this phone call that this 41-year-old bouncer made at 6:00 AM?
BROSNAN: Fascinating. Phone calls are very, very interesting in this case, Jane. Two things. The call that he made at 6:00 AM, as interesting as that is -- and I am extremely interested in who he called...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s stick with that. We have 30 seconds.
BROSNAN: Well, let`s say this. It`s not so much who he called but the fact that that phone sought a cell tower from which to hit, and the cell tower that it hit was in north Brooklyn. And you don`t go to Jamaica, Queens, from 218 Lafayette through Brooklyn, as far as I know. And I know it like the back of my hand, period.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some people say you do.
BROSNAN: No, you don`t, not that way, not west of the Bell (ph) Parkway.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he may have an explanation.
BROSNAN: He may, but what car did he use when he drove in on the 25th? That could be a Powerball lottery. He came in some vehicle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll ask that question when we come right back.
BROSNAN: Absolutely.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It gave us all a jolt, kind of an awakening that, you know, this could happen to any of us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re grieving in that sort of humanistic-, community-based way, I believe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just about everyone is very sad about it, you know, wondering how something so horrific could happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell sitting in for Nancy Grace.
Twenty-four-year-old graduate student Imette St. Guillen was working on a degree that what allow her to solve violent crimes, when she became the victim of one. The beautiful young woman was brutally raped and mutilated, her body dumped on the side of a Brooklyn road last weekend.
Let`s go straight out to prosecutor Eleanor Dixon. You`ve been hearing sort of two sides of this debate. He is not charged with anything. He is not a suspect, but you have a former detective saying it`s all very suspicious, particularly a 6:00 a.m. phone call from Brooklyn when he lives in Queens.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, I find that very suspicious. And I don`t think we`re picking on this bouncer, because there are two things that nobody`s really focused on.
One is he was the last person to see this girl alive, that we know of. And, two, he says he didn`t really notice what she was wearing, but he did notice something about her. He noticed the number of drinks that she had at the bar. He said she had two drinks but she didn`t finish the second one. He`s noticing her.
So I think it`s very important to focus on those facts, as well. And then, in conjunction with some of the other evidence, the secret room, the key that he had to that, as well as that very important phone call. Who did he call? What do they know? So those are very key items that I would focus on as the prosecutor.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what about last week when everybody was talking about, well, some of the evidence found at the crime scene could have come from a professional mover and there was a lot of focus on that? Then there was emphasis on a gypsy cab driver, with speculation that maybe she tried to hail a cab that was not a legal cab?
DIXON: Well, it could be any of those things, Jane. And that`s why you have to look at the evidence. And what is going to be key in this case, as somebody else has already mentioned, the forensic evidence, fibers, any hair, body fluids. So all of those things are going to speak the truth.
And you can`t change that type of evidence. It`s going to be there, and it`s going to point the investigators to the way. So you`re looking at everything. All these clues are very important in examining this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But there is a danger, is it not, to focusing too much on one individual to the exclusion of everyone? Because I understand, Alex Koppelman, reporter for "Justice" magazine, there was another individual who works at that bar, I believe, who was interviewed by authorities, and actually asked to disrobe. Can you tell us about that?
KOPPELMAN: That`s right. Police thought that -- police are looking for somebody with scratches on their body because of the tissue found under Imette`s fingernails. He was asked to disrobe. He did. And, in fact, there were no scratches on his body, at least that police could tell.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Veronika Belenkaya, do we know where the 41-year-old bouncer is right now? I understood that he was on parole when this whole thing developed. Is he being questioned in a precinct house?
BELENKAYA: As far as I know, I think he`s being questioned at the 75th precinct. He also actually did mention that, you know, another bounce -- to me, that another person who works at the bar was, in fact, asked to disrobe. So he actually told me about that, as well. And he said, you know, he was asked to strip to the waist down and, you know, they never found anything on him, so they let the other guy go.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Veronika, you are the only one that we know of who actually has actually spoken to this man. What was his affect? I mean, did he seem nervous? Did he seem paranoid? Did he seem calm, cool, collected?
BELENKAYA: He seemed -- I mean, honestly, you know, like, I`m the same age that Imette was. And, you know, he seemed nice to me. He seemed nice enough to me for me to trust him, and to speak to him, to give him my cell phone number and say, "Call me."
So, you know, I mean, personally, I wouldn`t have pegged him as somebody but, you know, you never know. Like you said, innocent until proven guilty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dr. Robi Ludwig -- yes, absolutely, innocent until proven guilty. This man has not been charged with anything. But this is a man that this reporter came up to and spoke with, and he seemed pretty relaxed. Is that the mark of somebody who`s done something terrible, unless they`re a sociopath?
LUDWIG: Well, it can be. It can be. What we know about sociopaths is that they don`t respond to anxiety the way most of us do, which is why they can take lie detector tests and often pass. It`s because their body doesn`t react with anxiety.
And I have met some criminals, Jane, and I have to tell you that many of them are more likable than the people you probably work with and know each and every day, because they know how to say the right thing. That`s what they do to get by in life. So if somebody is really, really likable, I might be very suspicious.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Lauren Lake, defense attorney, this man believes that he is being harassed by police. Do you buy that? Or do you feel police are simply doing their job and they`ve got to focus on this man because he was there at the very same time she was there? He has a rap sheet. He had a 6:00 a.m. phone call in Brooklyn, the very borough where she was found dead, although he lives in Queens, another borough. I mean, that`s a lot of stuff.
LAKE: It`s not that much stuff, you know, Jane. And right now, I just want to give the panel an A-plus for speculation, because that`s all that we`re doing.
And, of course, this man feels harassed and paranoid. Like I said, if he`s being falsely accused, he`s nervous. And what he should do is probably get a lawyer, talk to a lawyer, and learn what he should do in this situation, because there has been a lot of times where police start focusing in, they want to find someone so bad...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pat...
LAKE: ... they start focusing and they don`t -- and, Jane, let me just say this, too. You mean to tell me he`s the only one with the keys to that back portion of that basement? I don`t think so.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pat Brosnan?
BROSNAN: Oh, where do I begin? Here`s how it works. When a witness is interviewed at a scene, it becomes -- since manpower is finite, statistical probability steps into play.
When you have an individual who is more than likely, according to statements that have been corroborated by no less than three individuals at the bar, more than likely the last person to have interfaced with the recently deceased and that individual is a five-time -- note convicted, not arrested, not indicted -- five-time convicted, three of them robberies, crimes of violence, one drug possession, one weapon.
And, to boot, makes a cell phone call that hits a tower in North Brooklyn, when he lives in Jamaica, Queens. I got some serious questions. He may not be a suspect, but he is a person of extraordinary interest.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Pat, as far as detective work, obviously police have figured out who he called and interviewed that individual. So maybe there`s an explanation there.
BROSNAN: There may very well be. But I don`t know that they`re so interested, Jane, on who was called so much as the location of the cell tower that was hit when he was dialing that phone. Where his feet were at the time that the phone was dialed is far more important, or at least equally as important as who was contacted.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, can they narrow it down? I mean, let`s say -- her body was, in fact, found in Brooklyn. The call was made from Brooklyn. Can the cell phone range be narrowed down to within a few hundred yards?
DIXON: Sometimes it can; it depends on the location of the cell tower. There have been many cases where a suspect has been traveling from place to place and will hit off various cell towers, and you`re able to actually track where they`ve gone. It depends on the location of those towers.
But, again, that`s a key piece of evidence. And we`re not picking on this bouncer. I think I said that previously. But you`ve got to look at the evidence, and you`ve got to look at all of these things, and then exclude them if he`s not the one or maybe include him as a suspect. That`s why they`re looking at everything.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Alex Koppelman, reporter for "Justice" magazine, there`s two other potential pieces of evidence, a van that was found abandoned near the crime scene. Tell us about that.
KOPPELMAN: Well, police have actually already ruled out that the van was used in the crime. They don`t believe it was used in the crime. They didn`t see any evidence of fibers, bodily fluids, anything to indicate that Imette was in that van.
They have reportedly asked the bouncer whether he owns a car, whether he owns a van. So they clearly do believe some sort of car or van was used to transport Imette.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Veronika, what about the other -- this is another wild aspect to the story -- another unidentified body was apparently found in a plastic bag in eastern Queens, which is a different borough, but not that far away. Is that just a wild coincidence and a tragic coincidence?
BELENKAYA: I personally wouldn`t know about that. I know we have reported that, you know, our police bureau has, in fact, reported that they were possibly looking to see if there is a link between that body, which police may believe is a young black girl. But, you know, I really don`t want to speak to that because I just don`t know enough about the connection there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely terrifying case. I`m a native New Yorker; I know how New Yorkers are reacting to this. It`s frightening. It`s disturbing. Everybody wants this case solved.
I think I speak for everybody to say the police are working very, very hard on this case. Let`s hope to God they crack it soon, for the sake of her family, for the sake of the peace of mind of all New Yorkers. Stay with us. We`ll be right back.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember her as someone who was very much a part of the life of this school, bubbly, dark hair, beautiful eyes, just someone other young people gravitated to.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Back from Mexico looking spent and speaking slowly, Anthony Ianiero pleaded for more help from Ottawa in solving his parents` murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice must be done. And the road to justice lies in answering the many questions that have been raised. Therefore, we ask the Canadian law enforcement officials to work closely with their Mexican counterparts to find those answers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): The Ianieros had been in Mexico for a family wedding. On February 20th, Dominic and Nancy, the mother and father of the bride, were found dead in their hotel room. So far, Mexican officials say these two women from Thunder Bay, who had been staying across the hall, are the suspects.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell sitting in for Nancy Grace.
Tonight, a pleasure trip to a Mexican resort near Cancun for a family gathering to celebrate a happy occasion, a daughter`s wedding, but it turns into disaster. Instead, the bride`s parents, Dominic and Nancy Ianiero are brutally murdered, found in their hotel room with their throats slashed. What went wrong? Why is this killer still on the run?
Let`s go straight out to "Toronto Sun" reporter Brodie Fenlon for a brief recap of this mysterious and, frankly, confusing case -- Brodie?
BRODIE FENLON, "TORONTO SUN" REPORTER: Yes, thanks, Jane. There`s been a lot of innuendo, and rumor, and misinformation about this case.
Here`s what we know. Dominic and Nancy Ianiero went down to Mexico with a large group of Canadians. They were there for the wedding of their daughter. It was to be a beach-side ceremony as a luxury five-star resort south of Cancun.
They arrive on a Saturday. Sunday night, they attend a pre-wedding party. They go back to their rooms. And sometime over that night, into the Monday, early hours of Monday morning, between 3:00 and 5:00, it`s speculated, they`re murdered and quite brutally so.
Their throats are slashed. Nancy is found just inside the door of the room. Her husband is in his shorts, and he`s found in the bathroom.
And the next morning, they`re supposed to attend a breakfast. They don`t show up. The family gets worried. They get in touch with security, who find the bodies. That`s what we know. Everything from that point on is really mystery and speculation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, a very good recap. Thank you for that, Brodie.
Let`s go straight out to Lee Baig. He is an attorney for two women from Canada who suddenly find themselves under this cloud of suspicion.
Welcome, sir. Now, your two clients are very unlikely suspects. They are moms. They`re kind of soccer moms. They have no criminal record. They were down there in Mexico for another wedding, and they just happened to be staying in the hotel room that was right near the hotel room of the Ianieros. And they happened to leave, as planned, as scheduled, on the morning that their bodies were discovered.
Why do they find themselves under this cloud of suspicion?
LEE BAIG, ATTORNEY FOR CHERYL EVERALL AND KIMBERLY KIMMEL: Well, they find themselves under a cloud because the chief investigator in Mexico announced that they were the prime suspects. He said things like, "We know they did it." He called them very big, strong women who ventured down the hallway, killed the victims, returned to their room, and left the -- fled the hotel the same day, fled Mexico.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we just saw some video of them, and they don`t look like that strong, that big. I mean, one of them is quite petite.
BAIG: Well, I don`t know how strong they are, but they`re certainly not what you would describe as "big." In addition to that, you`ve described them as soccer moms. Ms. Everall is about to become a doctor, so she`s been many years in university. Ms. Kim...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, university women can play soccer or their kids can be soccer. It`s kind of a generic term...
BAIG: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... to describe sort of wholesome mother types.
BAIG: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... who don`t look in any way, shape, or form like they could be involved in anything nefarious. It`s a compliment.
BAIG: OK, well, we`ll take it as a compliment. They`ve never been involved with anything like this in their lives. They`re nice, church- going women who volunteer all over this community. They`re well-known in the community. It`s just preposterous to think that they would have anything to do with this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s hear what one of your clients had to say about all that.
BAIG: Sure.
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CHERYL EVERALL, SUSPECT IN MEXICO MURDER: It`s been awful. Like, we just can`t imagine that we would have been associated with anything like this, you know, both -- Kim and I just can`t even believe it.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: That being said, however, the prosecutor from the Quintana Roo, which is the region of Mexico where this crime occurred, says that blood led from the Ianieros` room to your clients` room, sir, and he says, quote, "Theirs was the only room that showed traces of blood on the key slot, on the remote control, on the refrigerator, and on the bathroom taps.
He also alleges that their door, electronic door records, show opened at around the same time as the Ianieros` door opened, and then opened again an hour later. What do you say to those allegations by the prosecutor?
BAIG: Well, look, I`ve learned over the past week not to trust very much of what Mr. Rodriguez has to say. His crime scene is totally flawed. There was blood on the hallway floor -- this is a tile floor -- at 5:00 in the morning from another witness who lived -- whose room was right across the hall from the Ianieros. He left to catch his bus. We`ve talked to him.
The room was, after my clients left, cleaned by the staff and rented out to other people. There`s blood all over the floor, which has been wiped up by the cleaning staff at the hotel. So who`s to say, first of all, whose blood it is, because there`s been no DNA? And, secondly, how did it get put there? We don`t know. But you can`t say that this was a proper investigation.
I would point out to you one other thing: There is no motive. Nobody`s suggested...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And it`s a baffling case. It just doesn`t make any sense. And when we`re going to come back, we`re going to talk a little bit about how bizarre and senseless this whole crime is, because nothing was taken. There was no forced entry. There was no nothing. I mean, it really doesn`t make any sense whatsoever.
Thank you, sir. We`ll be right back.
Quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for this man, Brian Michael Jones, wanted in connection with the 1999 kidnap and rape of a woman in Las Vegas.
Jones, 49, 5`11", 180 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes. If you have any information on Brian Michael Jones, call the FBI at 702-385-1281.
Local news next for some of you. We`ll all be right back. And, remember, live coverage of the Lita Sullivan Atlanta socialite murder trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.
Stay with us as we remember Marine First Lieutenant Andrew K. Stern, 24 years old, from Memphis, Tennessee. Stern was killed in battle in Fallujah, Iraq. He had been looking forward to coming home and enjoying his new Harley Davidson motorcycle. His dad remembers Stern as his best friend. Andrew K. Stern, a true American hero.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice must be done. And the road to justice lies in answering the many questions that have been raised. Therefore, we ask the Canadian law enforcement officials to work closely with their Mexican counterparts to find those answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Double murder of a Canadian couple on vacation in Mexico. Allegations the Mexican government botched this investigation.
Straight out to Dr. Jonathan Arden, medical examiner. What did they do with the bodies after they completed the autopsy, sir?
JONATHAN ARDEN, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: As far as I understand, the bodies were then returned to Toronto, in Canada, where there is a well-respected coroner system. And I believe they were going to re-examine the bodies forensically. I cannot speak to what they did in Mexico, what forensic...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I guess what I`m saying is they embalmed them, is what I heard, which can seriously hurt the ability to do another autopsy back in Canada.
ARDEN: That`s just another one of the many items that you`ve heard about already about how things have been destroyed, altered; in other words, the evidence has been compromised. The bodies have been embalmed. That makes them less amenable to examination, especially chemical examination. The scene has been cleaned. You have thing after thing here that has been handled inappropriately, and it`s going to impede this investigation. It`s going to make this very difficult.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, can you make any sense out of this crazy and tragic case? I mean, two soccer moms, or moms, let`s say, moms, one of whom is studying to become a doctor, sort of under this cloud of suspicion, but yet the Mexican government says that it looks like professional killers did this. I mean, it doesn`t make any sense. Nothing was taken. Their throats were slashed.
DIXON: It doesn`t make any sense. It`s a real mystery. And what`s interesting to me are the times that the couple was going into their hotel room and, also, the times that these two moms are going into their room.
Also something else to consider. You`re at a resort. Your defenses are down. You`re on vacation. So it sounds like the mother going to her room maybe to answer the door or going to the door and answering it because she`s found right there by the door, and the dad`s right in the bathroom. It sounds like their defenses are down. They`re not expecting it. So it could be anybody.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eleanor, thank you. You have the last word.
We want to thank all our guests tonight. And thanks to you at home for tracking these important cases with us.
Coming up, headlines from around the world. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell sitting in for Nancy. Nancy is going to be right here tomorrow night, 8:00 Eastern. Until then, have a great night.
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