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Nancy Grace

Breaking News in Investigation Into Imette St. Guillen`s Murder

Aired March 07, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the graduate student murder case, beautiful 24-year-old co-ed disappeared into the night after leaving a local bar. Well, tonight, at this moment, police questioning continues of the bouncer at that bar, Imette tortured, raped, murdered, wrapped in tape, her body abandoned miles away.
Also tonight, did witnesses lie? That`s right, did they lie to police in order to protect the bar and the bar`s bouncer? We are live at the scene.

And also tonight, the international murder mystery of the missing groom, George Smith. His family speaks to us first on their next legal move.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight: Missing groom George Smith vanished on the high seas. It was a honeymoon cruise like no other. Tonight, we try to unravel the mystery with his family. They`re planning a maneuver of their own.

But first, the massive manhunt for a killer on the loose in New York after the brutal murder of a beautiful 24-year-old girl, a grad student, Imette St. Guillen. At this hour, police interrogating a bouncer at the bar where St. Guillen was last seen hours, just hours before she was found assaulted, tortured, murdered, her body abandoned all on the eve of her 25th birthday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAUREEN ST. GUILLEN, IMETTE`S MOTHER: The New York police department are doing a terrific job. I trust them completely.

ADDIE HARRIS, POSSIBLE SUSPECT`S AUNT: They should be investigating everybody -- people that were in the bar, people that worked there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was the last person to see this girl alive, that we know of.

HARRIS: I know he has a record, but I don`t feel that he would do anything like that.

VERONIKA BELENKAYA, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": He said, We walked out, she stood in front of the bar and we went back in. And that`s when he said he saw the last of her.

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: If, in fact, some of the perpetrator`s DNA is on her body, that will be tested, because he`s a felon, they would have a match.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to investigative reporter Pat Lalama. Pat, so much happening as each hour passes. Bring us up to date.

PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, all those little pieces kind of coming together now. But let`s say it three times -- the bouncer is not a suspect, the bouncer is not a suspect, the bouncer is not a suspect yet.

But let`s go into the details. You were right. Apparently, the owner of the bar did originally not quite tell the truth but now has come forward with his lawyer to say that, Well, at first, I said she had a couple of drinks and left, but now I have to tell you I ordered her out. I think his words were (INAUDIBLE) "tossed her out of here," and I asked the bouncer to remove her from the bar. And she was not happy about it.

Then a witness said he heard a scuffle. Even the word "scream" was used. There was a commotion, but no one seems to have seen it. Also a witness says that he saw...

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. People heard a scream?

LALAMA: Yes.

GRACE: And nobody did anything?

LALAMA: Yes. Business -- and what I see in published reports is the business at the bar just went on as usual. The witness saying, yes, after, you know, he took her out, I heard a commotion, I heard an argument, even the word "scream" was used, but nobody acted upon that. Then a witness says that he or she saw the girl, the victim, talking to the bartender -- excuse me, to the bouncer -- as he was sitting in a van outside.

Now, very quickly just to run through some of the important points. Cell phone usage -- now they`re saying that it seems that his cell phone was in use near his home in Queens at 5:00 PM, but then from Brooklyn, near where the body was found, at 6:00 PM, and then about a little over two hours later came the anonymous 911 call.

In terms of evidence, they`ve been able to match ties that were on her body to ties found inside that office space. They`re not sure yet whether the tape matches. Also, they are investigating his home, where he lives with his aunt. But that house is owned by his mother, who`s been put away in a mental institution.

Also, witnesses say they saw a scratch on his neck. And Nancy, this is what I find interesting, for what it`s worth. Three days later, he came back to the bar. It wasn`t even his day of work, but he came in really, really extremely curious about the victim, asking lots of questions.

And I think, at this point, that brings us up to date.

GRACE: OK. I want to follow up on a couple of things you just said. You said ties in the basements of the office space.

LALAMA: Right. Yes.

GRACE: Do you mean the basement of the bar?

LALAMA: Ties that were inside that -- you know what? That`s a good question. I`m not sure whether they`re talking about the -- I think they mean in that office area, or perhaps -- well, let me just get this straight and...

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on. Ellie (ph) is right here. Ellie, what can you tell us?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, they searched the bar, the basement of the bar, then the office basement was above the bar, and they said that they found some packing tape, some ties, like those zip ties, that was similar to what was used to bind the body.

GRACE: Zip ties? What are zip ties?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re like those things that, you know, you`ll see, like, computer cords tied up with...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... like plastic handcuffs, kind of.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: They zip like that, and they -- OK, got it. All right. And that was -- oh, Ellie`s not miked. OK. She`s saying they found -- Pat Lalama, they found the zip ties in the office, you`re correct, above the bar.

LALAMA: Right. Right.

GRACE: Below the bar is the basement. Now, what can you tell me about a cat and the cat -- there you go, thanks, Elizabeth -- and the cat`s involvement in the case?

LALAMA: Yes. And there now, I understand, are actually two cats, apparently, two cats that live in that space. And on the crummy little blanket that looks like it came from a cheap motel that her body was wrapped in, they found what appear to be feline fibers. They will try to match those. There`s a white blanket that some investigators have said is thought to, perhaps, have semen on it. There is no corroboration of that information at this point.

So there is certainly a lot to look at, but you know, of particular interest, of course, her fingernails torn off and skin, or at least tissue found under her fingernails, and of course, body fluids. So hopefully, we can put all these pieces together and come up with an ace in the hole.

GRACE: Let`s put that back up, Elizabeth, the print identical to that one wrapped around Imette`s body.

And I want to go now to a special guest joining us Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky. This is a replica of the blanket found on the victim`s body. Dr. Kobilinsky -- who, by the way, teaches at John Jay College, where this girl was a graduate student studying criminal justice. Welcome, Koby (ph). Question to you.

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Sure.

GRACE: Did you hear that, what Pat Lalama, just said, that people at the bar heard a scream? They heard a scream and they did nothing! Koby, describe the condition of this girl`s body. They did nothing!

KOBILINSKY: Well, this poor girl was just viciously raped, sodomized. Her body was cut in a number of places. Her face was covered with this packing tape from chin to forehead. Her ankles were bound, as we know, with shoelaces, and her hands bound with those ties, those plastic ties that we just described. We know that there was a sock, a gym sock that was forced down her throat. And with the tape and that sock, I`m sure she had had great difficulty breathing, but she could see out. She could see through that tape.

And I am convinced that whoever did this, this psychopath, wanted to prolong the event, and it could have been many hours of constant torture and torment. And it just is heart-breaking to me and to every other member of the John Jay community. This is a devastating case.

I am hoping that DNA will make the difference because we know that her fingernails were broken. There may be DNA from the perpetrator under her fingernails. There may be body fluids, saliva or semen. There may be skin cells that had been sloughed off when this perpetrator touched her. So -- we also have the cat hairs. We have the technology to do DNA analysis, so we can not only tell if the hair on the comforter and on the tape that covered her face matches those two cats that are resident in the basement of The Falls bar.

So we`ve got a lot of technology. There`s a lot of evidence. We`re looking for the missing pieces -- the hair that was chopped off, her hair down to her shoulders. We`re looking for her clothing. We`re looking for her shoes and anything else that will link the suspect to her death.

GRACE: What a gruesome discovery it will be when her hair, her beautiful raven hair, which was chopped off during this attack, is finally found. And I predict it will be found, Koby.

Let`s go straight out, Elizabeth, standing out at the location where Imette`s body was found Saturday, Feb 24, our producer, Rupa Mikkilineni. Rupa, where are you? Describe.

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: I am at the place where Imette St. Guillen`s body was found nearly two weeks ago. It is a desolate, dark place, Nancy. Behind me is a tiny little shrine with candles lit and flowers. People, neighborhood passer-bys, friends perhaps, people that may have known her -- we`re not sure -- actually, while we were setting up this evening, there was a young man that came by, dropped off a candle, told us a little bit about the neighborhood and how it`s affected everybody here. This place, apparently, used to be for many years a place that bodies were dumped at. That`s what he was telling me.

GRACE: Now, explain to me where exactly you are, Rupa. If you could turn around and point to me, show me where Imette`s body was found?

MIKKILINENI: Sure. We are looking at a lamppost behind me, where the shrine is built here, with the flowers and the candles, lit candles. Also, there`s a reservoir behind this area, and there`s a woodsy area, as well, between the reservoir and where her body was found. We have been told that her body was found quite close to this lamppost here.

GRACE: You know, I want to go to Don Clark, former head of the FBI Houston bureau. You see our producer, Rupa, there where Imette`s body was found in a gruesome condition. I`ve seen -- actually seen a lot of dead bodies and autopsies, but the degree to which this woman was assaulted, even to the extent of having her hair chopped the off, Don -- what I want to talk to you about is the use of the cell phone allegedly by this bouncer. I mean, how much can we identify that? And also, Don -- everyone, formerly with the FBI -- what about that 911 call from the pay phone from that diner? What can we learn about that?

DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: Well, I think, Nancy, the technology is such now -- and it really is not really new technology -- where you can pinpoint these calls, you can pinpoint who made the call, and certainly, there`s a record as to where the call went. You have the relationships now with the telephone companies. Clearly, that takes legal process sometimes to get the information, but in exigent circumstances and a judge gives the authority to do so, the law enforcement can get that information expeditiously. And this is a case where you absolutely need to have it as quickly as possible. It is very important, Nancy, to find out what time that call was made and from what number it came from.

GRACE: And Don, right now on the screen, here`s the 911 call that police have released so far from a pay phone at a diner in New York. "I think there`s a body over at Fountain and Seaview." Operator, "How do you know? What did you see?" Answer, "It looks like a body. You should send someone to take a look at it." Click.

But as you all know, that`s likely -- there`s the diner. Thank you, Elizabeth. That`s likely -- there`s the pay phone -- long enough to get a bead on where it came from, and this is the phone right there where the call came from, out on the street. Somebody saw something.

Joining me right now is a very special guest, joining us from "The New York Daily News." She is a reporter with "The News," Veronika Belenkaya. Welcome, Veronika. Thank you for being with us. Veronika, you actually spoke to the bouncer. What -- how did you manage that?

VERONIKA BELENKAYA, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": I was given an assignment to trace Imette`s footsteps down from Pioneer last Saturday night and into The Falls, and so I went out from the Pioneer and stayed out there and then went to The Falls until closing time. And shortly after 4:00 AM, I -- once the bar closed, I spotted a man in the doorway next to the main entrance, which leads up to the second floor, I guess.

And he just -- you know, he was standing there, so I just came up to him to chat, said, Do you remember seeing this girl Friday night, you know, from last week? And at first, he seemed to think that, in fact, you know - - he didn`t really realize it was her until the news reports came through. And he just said, yes, you know, now I realize it was her. And then, you know, a few questions later, he asked me who I was. I said I was a reporter. He said, yes, you know -- at first, he was hesitant to talk, but then he agreed and just kept chatting.

GRACE: What did he have to say about her disappearance in depth?

BELENKAYA: He said that, from what he knew, you know, she came in shortly before last call, sat down in the middle of the bar, had two drinks, didn`t finish one of them, then said, you know, We walked outside, she stood in the front, and we went back inside. And he said that`s the last he saw of her.

GRACE: Did you talk to other bar employees, Veronika? Did they remember having seen Imette? And don`t you find it odd, Veronika -- everyone, with us "Daily News" reporter Veronika Belenkaya. Don`t you find it odd that first his story was she just left the bar late at night and was outside trying to hail a cab, maybe a cabbie did it. And then ruh-roh (ph), story suddenly changed! One of our employees was last seen with her. And there may have even been a scuffle with that employee. There may have even been a scream with that employee. Things are changing as we speak.

BELENKAYA: Well, it`s certainly odd, and you know, looking back on it, you know, had I known the things that are coming forth right now, you know, I would have asked him very different questions. But at that time, he was just -- you know, he was a great witness to speak to, and he`s somebody who actually admitted to speaking to her and willing to speak to me. And none of the other employees were willing to talk. So in fact, he was a great find.

GRACE: Yes, you`re right. You`re right. And the fact that the story is changing -- very interesting. Of course, this bouncer, not named a suspect, but our sources tell us he is still under interrogation as we speak -- he may have been moved to another facility. He is now being held on a parole violation.

When we get back, I`m going to share with you the record that I have on this guy, a seven-time convicted felon working at a bar against all codes, against all regulations about people who can work at bars, being around these young women until 3:00 and 4:00 o`clock in the morning. Yes, seven-time convicted felon!

Before we go to break, straight back out to our producer, Rupa Mikkilineni. Rupa, are people coming by, leaving balloons, leaving candles? I mean, what does the area -- could someone have driven by and just dumped her? Was she placed carefully? Did they have to leave their car to do it, or could they just throw her out? Where was she found in relation to the road?

MIKKILINENI: Well, she was found, I believe, quite close to the road, in fact, right beyond the other side of the guardrail, Nancy. And it is rather desolate here, but cars are driving by. It`s not a highly trafficked area at all. And certainly, at nighttime, at a very late hour, it`s very possible that nobody was driving by and a car could just stop and dump a body or dump whatever, dump anything.

GRACE: Or pull over to the side of the road. What you`re seeing there -- Liz, go back to that shot of Rupa. What you`re seeing is our lights lighting up the side of the road. Those lights were not there the night that Imette was thrown away like trash. It was dark. If a car had pulled over to the side, he could have just waited until the moment to put her body right there.

We`ll all be right back. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: This is a makeshift memorial that has now emerged at a location where the body of a beautiful 24-year-old grad student was tossed to the side of the road after a brutal attack and murder, her body found wrapped in duct tape, cast aside until a 911 anonymous call tipped off police.

Breaking news. Right now, we believe a young man, the bouncer at a local bar, is being questioned extensively by police. He`s there on a parole violation.

Elizabeth -- oops, he`s not a suspect -- let`s just take a look at what the parole board had to say the last time he came up for parole. Do we have that, Elizabeth?

"You were involved in a gunpoint bank robbery. You were on parole at the time of the instant offense. You have a total of seven felony convictions and violated parole previously. Your violent and out-of- control behavior shows you are a menace to society. Your continued incarceration remains in the best interest of society."

Do you know when this was? Do you know when this was, when the parole board said that to him? This was in May 2004. What is he doing working at a bar? What`s your best defense?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, no, Nancy. I mean, he is entitled to find gainful employment, and he attempted at that parole hearing to say how it was that he was, in fact, rehabilitated and that he would, in fact, become a thriving member of the community. And it was only two months later that he actually, through all of that game time that he was entitled to, was, in fact, then released by that same parole board. So that hearing, all it did was put him in custody for another 60 days. And instead of going out...

GRACE: And what is your point? What`s your point?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, no, the point is, from July of 2004 until today, or maybe not even until today, he has not committed another crime, and he`s not even been...

GRACE: You have got to be kidding me!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... listed as a suspect. So it`s wrong...

GRACE: Wait, wait! Elizabeth, let`s see that rap sheet you just put up. So you`re bragging that he hasn`t quite made it two years? There you go, two armed robberies, one was with a gun in a bank -- I bet the teller was a woman -- criminal use of firearms, drug possessions, three of those, possession of stolen property, one.

There are distinct laws regarding convicted felons with firearm offenses working at bars. This bar, apparently, ignored that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was very studious, very serious student, very committed to her studies, very committed to her goals. She came and she just lit up the room when she walked into the gym, or afterwards, we would go to the bar so that everyone could hang out and get to know each other a little better. Her smile, her presence just sparkled all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Instead of having her 25th birthday party, they had her funeral. This graduate student here in New York brutally savaged, murdered, duct-taped like a mummy and thrown to the side of the road.

Ellie, very quickly, what is the law regarding bars hiring bouncers and bartenders with criminal histories?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. It`s in the alcohol beverage control law, and it says you can`t knowingly employ somebody who`s got convictions for illegally using or carrying a weapon, which would apply to this guy...

GRACE: Enough said. I think a bank robbery at gunpoint would qualify.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the drug possession...

GRACE: OK, and that was back in `81.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... stolen property, all those apply to this guy.

GRACE: Two of our producers went to the scene, Clark and Phil. Clark, what did you find inside?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: Well, I`ll tell you what, Nancy, as soon as we came to The Falls in the wee hours this morning, outside, around the same time that Imette St. Guillen would have entered The Falls, there was no bouncer outside, no one checking ID outside. We sat down for a drink. They checked our ID right away. It was very dark inside.

And I started talking inside with the bartender, saying, Hey, what happened with the Imette St. Guillen, What have you heard, things like that. The bartender didn`t want to talk. There were a few people on the side who seemed to be enjoying their drinks, regulars. But it was very quiet, and the mood was definitely a little bleak.

GRACE: What about the surrounding area, Phil?

PHIL ROSENBAUM, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, they say New York is the city that never sleeps, but it was taking a good snooze last night. Nobody was out on the streets.

GRACE: What time were you there?

ROSENBAUM: We were there around 3:00 AM. We got there at 1:00. Two good hours.

GRACE: And this is the video you shot?

ROSENBAUM: That`s right. We shot that last night.

GRACE: How hard would it be to get a cab at that hour?

ROSENBAUM: It was easy last night, but I speculate, on a Friday night, it might be difficult.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was amazed by the outpouring of love and caring that people have shown me. And I think that right now I`m in a state of shock, plus I have to tell you that I`ve kept it totally separate. I haven`t read any papers; I haven`t watched news reports. I don`t know all details of it, and that`s the only way I`m functioning right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A beautiful 24-year-old graduate student here in New York went missing after being at a local bar. Her body found savaged, murdered, wrapped in duct tape in a blanket and thrown to the side of a highway, about 45 minutes away where she was last seen, close to JFK Airport.

Tonight, we are reviewing all the evidence we have as police continue to question, at this hour, the bouncer at that bar. His name, Darryl Littlejohn, age 41.

To Pat Lalama, investigative reporter -- repeat, Littlejohn, not named an official suspect -- let`s go through what we know tonight, Pat. Let`s go through the time line.

Liz, can you put that up for the viewers?

Go ahead, Pat.

LALAMA: OK. Well, as we know, she was with her girlfriend at another bar called the Pioneer. And they were there quite a few hours, is my understanding, about four.

She leaves the bar with her girlfriend. Her girlfriend wants to go home. She says, "No, I want to stay out." Then she moves on down the street. She is seen on surveillance tape as they part ways. She arrives at the Falls, what, 3:30, 3:40, in that area, sits at the bar, has, I believe, her second drink, is told at this point she`s got to go. And at this point, the gates to the bar...

GRACE: But why? Why does she have to go, because it`s late?

LALAMA: They`re closing down. They`re closing down. The person, the witness who`s now changed his story, said that she seemed annoyed at the fact she -- his words were that she was complaining that she couldn`t finish her second drink. And he went to Littlejohn allegedly and said, "Get her out of here, toss her out; just get her out of here." So he asked...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Haven`t these people ever heard of a to-go cup?

LALAMA: Yes, and you know what, Nancy? I mean, well, I`ll get to this in a minute.

Anyways, so she leaves with him allegedly, and that`s when the scuffle allegedly happens. Now, this is what gets interesting, OK? Because this would be around the 4:00 a.m. area. What`s interesting is that, according to his cell phone, he makes a call around -- his cell phone is used, I should say, at around 5:00 p.m. from near his home in the Queens area. Then 6:00 p.m., it`s used near the crime scene. And then, 2 1/2 hours later, the 911 call.

And, Nancy, if someone had stopped that scuffle, imagine where she might be today.

GRACE: Very quickly, I want to go back to Veronika Belenkaya, with "The New York Daily News," where is Littlejohn right now, Veronika?

BELENKAYA: He`s either at the precinct or Rikers Island, from what I know.

GRACE: Why would he be taken to a full-blown jail, Rikers, I mean...

BELENKAYA: Well, from what I understand, from what I -- I`m not quite clear on this -- but from what I knew, he was arrested on parole violation, if I`m not mistaken.

GRACE: Back to these people that are changing their stories, Renee Rockwell. It`s trial 101. You lie to police; you change your story; you hinder an investigation; you`re looking at an obstruction charge. I mean, it`s very simple, agree, disagree?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy. And don`t forget, you do not have to tell the police anything. But if you`re going to talk to them, don`t lie to them. Number one, you didn`t have to talk at all, but don`t lie to them if you decide to make a statement, because they will be charged.

GRACE: Renee, come on. You`ve represented plenty of bouncers, plenty of bartenders -- I`m not proud of you -- but the reality is, it is against every bar regulation, alcohol regulation -- they are highly regulated, bars are, believe it or not -- cannot have a convicted felon propped up to keep the peace. Talk about the wolf guarding the henhouse.

ROCKWELL: And, Nancy, that is why he`s in jail right now. Two reasons: number one, he violated a 9:00 p.m. curfew -- he was on parole, couldn`t do that; number two, he didn`t tell his parole officer that he was working in a bar. He`s in jail; he`s not going anywhere.

They have plenty of time to do all kind of testing on him. But I can tell you one other thing, Nancy: He`s lawyered up, and he`s not saying anything.

GRACE: Oh, yes, his days of talking -- his hours of talking are over.

And to Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, I don`t know if you read this transcript from pardon and parole who say, point-blank, "You are a menace to society." Ding-ding! Why did they let him out?

And, Leslie, I`m just a trial lawyer. What does it mean that not only was this woman raped, and murdered, and tossed away like trash, but that her hair was chopped off?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: This is such a savage crime, it`s unspeakable. And I`m not going to even refer to any of the details that I read, because they`re too horrible.

But this was a very violent crime, and I ask the question, why would the bar hire someone like this? Now, keep in mind that this is the same family that owned a bar called Dorian`s Red Hand that was involved in the preppy murder case, which was very famous here in New York. Again, a question of the bar`s responsibility.

I`m not making any accusations, but you can`t have somebody like this working as a bouncer in a bar. And, by the way, you can`t carry open alcohol out of a bar in New York, so there`s no to-go cup.

GRACE: Ah. You know, Leslie, for some reason, I didn`t think of asking you about carrying a to-go cup of alcohol. I didn`t think that that would, you know, ring a bell in your mind.

AUSTIN: This is my neighborhood, this bar. And I grew up right near, four exits away from that spot on the Belt Parkway. It`s not a place where anybody would randomly see a body. You would have to look for it. It`s very desolate at night.

Nobody would stop there. It`s not a lover`s lane. It`s not a place to pull over and park. It`s very desolate at that part of the parkway. Somebody would have to know to look on the far side of the guardrail. There would be no reason to stop otherwise.

GRACE: Back to Veronika Belenkaya with the "New York Daily News," Veronika, this guy, after you went to the bar looking for a story, trying to find out the facts, actually called you back? What did he say? Wasn`t it on a Sunday morning?

BELENKAYA: Yes. I gave him my card before leaving and said, "Please give me a buzz if you hear anything or remember anything extra that you haven`t told me today." And he called me on Sunday at 10:51 a.m. I woke up.

He called my cell phone and said, "You know, can you talk to me?" He sounded a bit apologetic and said, "You know, police are harassing me. They followed me on the train, you know." And he seemed a bit offended at the fact that, you know, a child could figure out the fact that they were cops, because they`re so obvious and they`re undercover is so obvious. The same guys are all over the place following him.

GRACE: You know, instead of wondering about how stupid or smart the cops could be, I would be worried that they`re posted outside my apartment staring at me.

BELENKAYA: He was worried about that, too. He said there were two police SUVs parked in front of his house. He walked out, said, "I`m looking at them right now," gave me the license plate to one of them. He said, you know, he went to a grocery store about two blocks away, came up to one of the cops, said, "Hey, do you want anything?" You know, so...

GRACE: To Hillah Katz, defense attorney, re-offend, re-offend, re- offend. This guy, who`s not a suspect, seven felonies.

HILLAH KATZ, TRIAL ATTORNEY: I know but, Nancy, seven prior convictions is not probable cause to arrest somebody for a murder.

GRACE: How about being the last one seen with the murder victim and hearing a scream. Does that help, Hillah?

KATZ: Well, no, the hearing the scream...

GRACE: Have I given you enough ingredients yet?

KATZ: Well, no. Hearing the scream is an interesting point because it`s from the bar owner, who we`ve just talked about on the program, about your trial 101, as to whether or not people from the bar were obstructing justice that first said she left fine and then reported there was a scream.

So the truth is there is potentially credible witnesses who have said that she actually was screaming...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Well, Hillah, why do you think they`ve relocated him to Rikers?

KATZ: Oh, no, they`ve relocated him, because if he`s sitting on a parole violation, he belongs in custody. And he`s sitting in a New York state prison or jail facility. So he belongs where he -- he`s at the proper place for the parole violation.

GRACE: Come on. Come on, Renee, following up on what Hillah and I are talking about, you know the parole violation they`ve got him on, right? He broke 9:30 p.m. curfew. Now, please, Renee, let`s get real with the viewers. You don`t bring somebody in on a parole violation because they`re out past 9:30. That`s not why this man is in Rikers, OK?

ROCKWELL: No, Nancy, and not because he was working at a bar. He`s in jail right now so the police, number one, so he can be off the street and the parole board can`t be accused of letting somebody out that was a menace to society, but, number two, so the police can have a crack at him.

But that`s it. He`s got a lawyer now. He`s not saying anything, Nancy. But interesting...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Renee, don`t be to sure. He called Veronika at 10:30 in the morning on a Sunday morning to blab, "Oh, poor me, police are following me." Don`t be so sure he won`t blab, maybe not to a cop, but maybe to his cellmate or somebody else that will listen.

ROCKWELL: Nancy, that`s another thing. He doesn`t need to say anything while he`s in jail because somebody right next to him could say, "Hey, I`ve got some information on this guy." He needs to be quiet, not to say anything, and the evidence will come out, Nancy.

If she`s a fighter, like I hear she was, her fingernails were broken. He may have a scratch on him. Nancy, he was the only one, the only male employee of that bar that did not submit to a voluntary DNA test.

GRACE: Ruh-roh.

ROCKWELL: Interesting.

GRACE: Back to the area, our producers, Phil Rosenbaum and Clark Goldband, went back to the scene, retraced Imette`s steps at the time she went missing. I`m talking 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, 4:00 in the morning.

Back to the outside area, Phil, I understand there`s a 7-Eleven, a Bodega within a block from the bar. If the police are barking up the wrong tree, would she have had to walk by that 7-Eleven?

ROSENBAUM: To go uptown where she lived, she would have had to walk by that store. You`re right, Nancy.

GRACE: And nobody saw anything? Did you go in the 7-Eleven?

ROSENBAUM: We did. We even videotaped inside that store.

GRACE: And what did they say?

ROSENBAUM: They didn`t see anything that night. They knew about the incident, of course. And they said that they`re open 24 hours a day.

GRACE: So if she had been going home, she would likely have walked beside it.

And, Clark, would anyone talk to you inside the bar? What was the atmosphere in the bar at that time in the morning?

GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, it was a little strange, because it was business as usual. Once again...

GRACE: Don`t tell me you two had a drink.

GOLDBAND: It was for research purposes only, Nancy, I can assure you.

GRACE: OK, you`re in trouble.

GOLDBAND: But I do have to tell you that we spoke with people on the street, people who are from the neighborhood, and they say that this sort of thing doesn`t happen in the neighborhood. It was unusual.

GRACE: Well, guess what? It did.

Very quickly to tonight`s "Trial Tracking." A jury recommends life for state trooper David Camm, convicted September 2000 slayings of his wife, Kim, their children, Bradley and Jill. That Idaho jury returning the verdict after deliberating four long days. Sentencing, March 28th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s over. There`s closure for our community, as well as these victims` families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HAGEL SMITH, LOST HUSBAND ON CRUISE LINE: I lost my husband, George, during our honeymoon cruise last summer on July 5th. We quickly learned that this was not an isolated event; we were not alone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He told his friends he was going to the men`s room. No one ever saw my son again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I tried to fight him off, but he persisted to molest me. Then he turned off the air in my tank, he pulled my top down...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my opinion, the current system is broke and desperately needs reform. God save the next family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I wouldn`t believe it if I hasn`t heard it with my own ears. These are American citizens at Capitol Hill talking about what has happened to them on cruise lines. And who better to address that than the family of the so-called missing groom, 26-year-old George Smith, who went on this idyllic dream honeymoon cruise through the Mediterranean? He was never seen again. He was last seen on the Brilliance of the Seas luxury liner.

Straight out to Bree Smith -- this is George Smith`s sister -- what happened today, Bree?

BREE SMITH, SISTER OF GEORGE SMITH: Well, I think it was really a move in the right direction. First of all, six victims of cruise crimes testified before Congress. Then there was a panel of expert witnesses discussing maritime law. And finally, the cruise lines answered up.

And I think this really was a positive step, Nancy, because Congressman Shays and other representatives there discussed possibly putting air marshals, you know, cruise marshals, in effect, on board, as well as other possible reforms, such as mandating reporting. So it was great.

GRACE: Do you recall when a representative from the cruise line was here on the show and basically said, "Hey, there are congressional hearings every day; they don`t mean a hill of beans"?

Take a listen to this, Bree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Doesn`t that bother you, as a lawyer, that your client is part of an industry that has gotten so out of control with crime they`ve got to have congressional hearings?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what, Nancy? I lived in Washington for a very long time, and there`s congressional hearings on an awful lot of things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Nothing like pooh-poohing congressional hearings, Bree.

B. SMITH: Exactly what I was saying. I think that was wishful thinking, Nancy. In this case, I really believe that Congress will act. This has gone on for far too long. And now, with the national exposure given to my brother`s murder, as well as the other crimes of cruise victims, I think the time has come for a change, and I think it`s in the making.

GRACE: Here is what a few of the crime victims, while on cruise lines, had to say in the fight that is being led by George Smith`s family.

Roll it, Liz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On January the 16th and 17th, we finally deposed the steward and the head of the hotel, the cruise. At that point, we discovered for the first time the fact that our daughter had been reported missing daily starting August 29th and no action was taken. In other words, it took us, as I just said, 4 1/2 months to interview a member of the crew. And that cost over $75,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: God. To George`s father, Mr. George Smith. Thank you for you and Mrs. Smith...

GEORGE SMITH, FATHER OF MISSING GROOM: How are you, Nancy?

GRACE: ... I`m good -- and Bree being with us. What did you learn today at these hearings?

G. SMITH: Well, I learned that I think there will be changes made with the cruise industries. I think Mr. Shays is gradually picking them apart. The only thing that did upset me a little bit today, Nancy, that one of the representatives from Florida was very pro-cruise line, and even went as far as calling my lawyer an ambulance chaser. So, I...

GRACE: What`s his name?

(CROSSTALK)

G. SMITH: ... it was quite upsetting.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. George...

G. SMITH: Mr. Mica.

GRACE: Mica?

G. SMITH: And he asked them how much my lawyer was making from the international cruise victims. Honestly, I don`t know how a gentleman on a committee like that can say something to somebody testifying in front of him. It was shocking.

GRACE: Maureen, what you did learn?

MAUREEN SMITH, MOTHER OF MISSING GROOM: I learned, Nancy, that I think the cruise lines are really starting to feel the pressure, because we`re not in this alone. There are a lot of victims out there, and I do believe that our efforts will bring all those victims -- more and more victims out.

They won`t be afraid to come forward. And I do think that the cruise line, even though they`re still acting very arrogant, they are starting to realize there`s a problem. There is crime on cruise ships, like there`s crime everywhere else, although they like to say there isn`t crime on cruise ships, and they have to address that crime.

GRACE: Right. We`ll be right back with the family of George Smith.

To tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." Law enforcement on the lookout for Erik Kristian Moller, in connection with the molestation of a California girl, starting age 10. Moller, 38, 5`10", 140 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes. If you have info, call 310-477-6565.

Local next news for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And, remember, live coverage of the Lita Sullivan murder 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.

Stay with us as we remember tonight Specialist Joshua M. Pearce, 21, from Oklahoma. A bomb detonated near his vehicle. He joined the Army after high school, where he was voted the life of the party. Full of happiness. Tonight, Joshua Pearce, an American hero.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAGEL SMITH: I personally have no desire to sink the cruise industry. That is not why I`m here today with other victims and my family. I`m here to support other cruise victims as an advocate for improving safety, security and transparency on cruise ships.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. The so-called missing groom`s family takes on Washington today, pushing for change in the cruise line industry. The stories they heard will curl your hair.

To their lawyer, Brett Rivkind, joining us tonight, the Smith family attorney. What`s the name of that Florida representative that called you an ambulance chaser?

BRETT RIVKIND, SMITH FAMILY ATTORNEY: Mica. He alluded to that.

GRACE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear what you said. What was his name?

RIVKIND: Congressman Mica.

GRACE: Congressman Mica. Out of where?

RIVKIND: I think he`s pretty close in the mid-Florida or upper Florida, like around Cape Canaveral, Port Canaveral.

GRACE: And why were you an ambulance chaser? You`re representing the Smith family. They called you.

RIVKIND: Well, I think what he was alluding to is he was trying to say that I am very successful in suing the cruise line industry. What I tried to point out to him was that I`m very proud to represent victims of accidents or crimes and that there seems to be enough that maybe I am successful in what I do.

GRACE: Well, you know, very interesting, to Bree Smith, George`s sister, Florida, Florida, Florida, Cape Canaveral, Miami. Oh, where all the boats dock.

B. SMITH: (OFF-MIKE)

GRACE: So he`s mad at your family for launching, calling for these congressional hearings? I hope you`re not scared, are you?

B. SMITH: Oh, please. No, we`re not intimidated by the cruise lines and we`re not intimidated by congresspeople that are from states that are highly affected by the cruise line corporations.

One thing I`d like to say is that he kept alluding to the amount of jobs that were in Florida because of the cruise lines. Well, if our reforms are implemented, there would even be more jobs in Florida, so this should not be an issue for him.

GRACE: To George Smith`s family, who are doing all they can as individuals to change the world, thank you. And please join us again when you visit. The time goes by so quickly. Thank you.

But thank you to all of our guests. Our biggest thank you here is to you for being with us. I missed you so much when I was gone.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. See you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END