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On the Story
Correspondents Discuss Stories Behind the Stories
Aired March 18, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ON THE STORY coming up in just a moment, but first a look at what's happening right now in the news. A convicted rapist is being held without bond in South Carolina tonight. Kenneth Hinson is accused of kidnapping and sexually assaulting two teenage girls. The girls managed to escape telling police Hinson left them tied up in an underground bunker on his property. Hinson was on the run from police for four days before he was caught.
Thousands of angry demonstrators set fires and fought with police in France today. They don't like a jobs plan that would make it easier to fire young people. A half million students and workers demonstrated in Paris and other cities.
Two U.S. Navy warships were doing routine security work off Somalia when suspected pirates opened fire on them. Sailors returned fire killing one suspect and wounding several others. Rocket propelled grenades and other weapons were seized.
And later on "CNN Presents," a look at America's oil dependence and what might happen if the spigot runs dry. "We Were Warned, Tomorrow's Oil Crisis." It's coming up later at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Right now, though, next, ON THE STORY, three years into the Iraq war and President Bush ignores calls to revamp his staff. Our correspondents put the Pentagon and White House under the microscope. I'm Carol Lin.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: This is CNN and we are on the story. From the campus of the George Washington University in the heart of the nation' capitol, our correspondents bring you the stories behind the stories they are covering. Barbara Starr is on the story of what she hears at the Pentagon three years after the start of the Iraq war. Elaine Quijano talks about President Bush, his new defense of Iraq policy and why the president ignores suggestions to overhaul his White House team.
Internet reporter Abbi Tatton looks for reaction online to coverage of the war. Ed Lavandera looks at protests and counter protests surrounding funerals of U.S. military killed in Iraq.
And Chris Huntington was on the story of the Enron corporate corruption trial as the government rolled out its big guns.
And a warm welcome to you. I'm Ali Velshi. I'll be talking about my conversation with a man who changed the way we work and live, Bill Gates. Barbara Starr is here with me and all of our correspondents will be taking questions from our studio audience drawn from visitors, college students and people across Washington. Well, it's been three years since shock and awe began the Iraq war. This week new violence, a major military offensive and a new slump in U.S. public confidence in the war. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr was on the story. Here is Barbara's notebook.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As we approach the third anniversary of the beginning of the war in Iraq, now the story has changed. Senior commanders are saying their major security concern is the sectarian violence, Shia versus Sunni. Here in the Pentagon, it's clear that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld feels a good deal of frustration about the news coverage of the situation in Iraq. When he meets with the press corps, he expresses the frustration --
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Civil war. Do I think we are in a civil war at the present time, no?
STARR: There is a great feeling amongst the highest levels of the U.S. military that it is the militia groups, the Shia militias that have basically penetrated Iraqi police forces and are conducting many of the executions, the death squad actions across Iraq. Iraqi police reported 86 more bodies found in the capital in just 30 hours. There is great concern about what might come next.
VELSHI: Barbara Starr joins us now and for those of you -- I mean really, you could have turned the TV on at any hour this week and seen Barbara on. And one of the interesting peculiarities about your job at the Pentagon is you are there in that mix having to report on that from the Pentagon. So you can feel the nuance of change in the tone at the Pentagon. What did this week feel like?
STARR: I think it was a change. I think a lot of us were thinking about where we were three years ago this week, what we thought the war was going to be all about. It was all about WMD at the beginning. We all remember that. Remember WMD? Then it became the insurgency. But somehow in the last three weeks or so since the bombing of the golden mosque in Samarra, suddenly now it's all different one more time. It's a new war. It's all about civil war and sectarian violence.
VELSHI: Let's go to the audience and see what they want to ask you about. Sir, your name and where you are from.
QUESTION: Hi, I'm Andrew Patrick from Asheville, North Carolina. And my question is when public support for a war goes bad, does it ever improve? And do you think America's support for this war will improve?
VELSHI: That's a very good question.
STARR: I'd make a lot more money if I knew the answer to that. It's a very difficult question. And it's a very difficult question for the military right now because the United States military knows it can only really conduct a military action, a war, if you will, if the American people support it. This is a country where there is civilian control of the military, where they can't operate on their own. And there is a much more sober tone these days with top military commanders. They are concerned. I think there's no question about it.
VELSHI: Your name and where you're from.
QUESTION: My name is Nathan. I'm from Virginia. I'm interested, in light of the increase in sectarian violence in Iraq and the Bush administration's sagging approval ratings, have the long term goals in Iraq changed?
STARR: Yes and no. That, too is a very interesting question. No, the long term goal for the United States military right now is to get enough -- we all hear this every day of the week, get enough Iraqi troops stand up. As they stand up, the U.S. stands down. But I do think that reality certainly has sunk in because what you do hear now is that it's not going to be, you know, what they call a Jeffersonian democracy that's in Iraq. Iraq is Iraq. Not every country is going to look at democracy as the United States looks at it. And so Iraq will always be something just a bit different. It's not going to be perhaps what we thought three years ago this war would result in.
VELSHI: Your name and where you're from.
QUESTION: Hi. My name's Kaylee and I'm from Houston. I was wondering with operation swarmer now in effect and the many incidents that have happened to journalists such as Bob Woodruff in Iraq. Do you see more journalists ready to endanger themselves to get that top headline story or are they starting to back down?
STARR: I think that any responsible journalist is going to be very cautious about going to Iraq and will ensure that they have security precautions in place. There are many journalists who still do want to go and many who have gone. We talked about it on this program a few weeks ago who now look at it and say, you know, not for me. I mean, you know, we are all people. It's great to say that we are all so brave and we are going to go off and do all this because it's very real.
VELSHI: But it's very real now.
STARR: It is very real. I think no one would forget that Jill Carroll somewhere tonight is in a dark room in Baghdad and is being held captive. That's pretty sobering to think about before you go to one of these places.
VELSHI: It's interesting that this war on a weekly basis throughout the whole thing has reminded people that traditionally those groups were thought of as been outside of the target range in a war zone aren't. People are getting attacked, kidnapped, all sorts of things are happening. You are not safe just because you are a journalist.
STARR: This has been the most deadly war that there has been for journalists I think since they started keeping records, something like 62 journalists. And those are journalists from around the world including, of course, many Iraqi reporters who are giving their lives to cover this story in their own country. This is a very, very deadly war. And the other shift that certainly has happened in the last several weeks is it is the Iraqi civilians who are suffering in this country greatly. We learned one absolutely staggering statistic this week that the rate of attacks against Iraqi civilians in a one-week period went up 65 percent. So the debate about whether it's civil war or not perhaps is irrelevant.
VELSHI: If people are getting --
STARR: If the bodies are God forbid piling up by the hour.
VELSHI: It continues to be a complicated story and it's hard to sort of sift through how many different issues you have to be on top of in a given week. They are dealing with so many different matters at the Pentagon. And I think you've been covering all of them this week.
STARR: It does seem like that some days.
VELSHI: President Bush has the war on his agenda in his speeches this week. Plus he was barraged with questions about overhauling his circle of advisers. Our Elaine Quijano is back on that story after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will not lose our nerve. We will help the Iraqi people succeed. Our goal in Iraq is victory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: President Bush on Thursday sticking to his guns on Iraq. White House correspondent Elaine Quijano is on the story. She joins us now from the White House. Boy, it's a good thing President Bush was sticking to his guns because he was under attack on Iraq this week as he has been in as many weeks as you can remember unless there was a domestic matter that he was under attack for. What's the tone? What's going on, Elaine?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are basically at that three-year mark now approaching the three-year anniversary of the start of the U.S.-led invasion. And so President Bush is really engaged in the latest White House push to try to turn around public opinion on Iraq. We all know the president's numbers have been way down. His approval rating has been way down in large part because of Iraq. They also know that these images of sectarian violence are really tough for Americans to see. So the strategy here for the White House is really to try and show that there is more than just beyond what people are seeing on their television screens, that the administration sees that there is progress going on. So that's going to be a part of the president's message. He's going to deliver a big speech on Monday in Cleveland to talk about it.
VELSHI: Elaine, questions from the audience. Sir your name and where you are from.
QUESTION: I'm Fredricko Delado (ph) from Guadalajara, Mexico. And President Bush's decision of pushing a new beat to explain the war in Iraq seems to be based on domestic political rationale. What sort of explanation is he going to give to international community?
QUIJANO: Well, what the White House would say to that is that in essence what they are doing is really not just focusing on the domestic, immediate sort of political difficulties that are facing this White House because of Iraq. But they are really looking at the big picture, long term. They have a firm belief here that what they are doing in Iraq is correct. They think in the end, democracy is going to emerge out of Iraq no matter how difficult things appear right now. And so this is basically going to be another chance for the president to appeal to the American people for patience.
Now of course domestic politics do play into this. You have Republicans who are looking at those mid-term reelection, the mid-term election coming up. And they are saying look, if things don't start to improve here, that could mean we'll have a difficult time come November. So there is of course that domestic political backdrop happening here. But the larger picture, the White House really thinks it can succeed. It has a strategy to succeed and so that's the message they are going to try and push.
VELSHI: Your name and where you are farm.
QUESTION: I'm Mark Leavitt from (INAUDIBLE) Michigan. I was wondering do you think there really is anything Bush can do to boost his popularity back up?
QUIJANO: Well, so much of it as we said depends on how things go with Iraq. Now of course there are a myriad of other issues that the president has faced, challenges on the Dubai Ports World deal. Of course, that was a recent controversy. That was really on the president's signature issue, national security. But what they are saying here is that they are not necessarily on Iraq, with these speeches looking to move poll numbers from one point to another. What they say is that they are essentially trying to give people a better understanding. As one senior administration official told me, one can have a better understanding but still be unsatisfied about the way things are going.
VELSHI: Sir, your name and where you are from.
QUESTION: Justin Lynn from Hyde Park, New York. I'm wondering with eight months left until the midterm elections, is the president looking to make some strategic changes within his core group or cabinet?
QUIJANO: Well, that's an interesting question because that was a story that certainly -- there was a lot of buzz about here at the White House. I should say more accurately it was outside the White House that a lot of this buzz was coming. What we had this past week was essentially some outsiders, some confidantes of the president's who were looking to perhaps influence the White House into make some additions. They weren't talking subtractions. They weren't talking about necessarily firing anyone. But they wanted to perhaps not so gently -- a bit more forcefully suggest to the White House that it was time for some new blood.
Now it's interesting to note about that is that these same confidantes, even as they were talking to reporters about this said they recognize full well that the more that this got out into the public's fear, into the public realm of discussion, that in fact this was going to be less likely to happen. But the bottom line was these were friends of the White House who were looking at the situation politically that the president is in right now, noting that his staff has been facing challenge after challenge and perhaps now is a time for new blood. But so far, no indication that anything's going to happen.
VELSHI: Never a dull moment on the White House beat. Elaine Quijano, thank you so much for joining us from the White House. We are staying the on the story of the administration and the war. I'll be taking a vote of our audience here about whether they are getting the coverage they want of the Iraq war. Just ahead, our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton goes on the story online for blogger reaction to how the war is covered. But first, another look behind the scenes at the White House with producer Becky Brittain.
BECKY BRITTAIN: First of all you don't have like unlimited access where you can just walk anywhere you want to. Basically you are kind of limited in where you hang out. Most of our time as a producer is spent in the White House booth downstairs. It's actually the bottom of the pool where the pool was before Nixon was the president. He closed it in. We hang out in this place that has no windows. It's the size of a small bathroom.
When Scott McClellan does his briefing, it just looks completely different than what it is in reality. The networks leave their gear here throughout the day. People are just kind of gathering here for different events. As the role of the producer, basically here to coordinate the coverage of the White House for CNN and that involves so many different little pieces.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: You are on the story. Tell us what topics you want discussed. E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com. Well Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld hasn't been shy about criticizing the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: In a steady stream of errors all seem to be of a nature to enflame the situation and to give heart to the terrorists and to discourage those who hope for success in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right. I want to ask our audience here about the level of confidence you have in the news that you get out of Iraq. Give me a show of hands if you have confidence in the news that comes out of Iraq. All right. Now let's see a show of hands. It looks like about 30 percent of you. Let's see a show of hands of those of you who don't have confidence like Donald Rumsfeld says. That looks like 90 percent of you. And 90 and 30 doesn't add up but we'll figure that out shortly. Let's go over to Abbi Tatton, our Internet reporter who's looking for reaction online to reporting about the war. Abbi, what are you seeing online?
ABBI TATTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ali, it's always a huge topic of discussion. How the media is doing the Iraq war in general. From the left, the right, the center. From military bloggers, it's all over the place. From bloggers here in the United States though, one of them is Bill Roggio. This is his blog. He was covering the war in Iraq from his home in New Jersey until he decided to take a leave of absence and got and imbed with a Marine unit in Iraq. Bill is now back and he is joining us from Philadelphia. Bill, thanks for joining us.
BILL ROGGIO, BILLROGGIO.COM: Thanks for having me, Abbi.
TATTON: Looking at your blog and why you do it, you say your blog's devoted to explaining the war on the one hand, but also combating the media. How's the media been doing over the last three years?
ROGGIO: I would say the media's performance in the war on terror and reporting the war on terror has been poor. I would give it a grade of a D plus. There's just been a lot of inaccurate reporting. Reporting on military operations often lacks context. And often the reporting plays into the hands of al Qaeda as well. They take a page out of the al Qaeda play book and re-report stories. There's incidents such as the incident in Ramadi last December where an AP stringer basically reported there was an uprising in Ramadi. And all the news organizations picked the story up and ran without cross checking it with the military. It wound up this just didn't happen and the story's out. Al Qaeda gets a victory that way.
TATTON: Now you went out there and you imbedded with a unit. But you're former military and you were invited by this unit to go out there. They had read your reporting already. Are you not too close to this to be objective yourself?
ROGGIO: No, I don't believe so. My purpose is to cover the military operations and cover the general war in Iraq and the general war on terror. I report the good and the bad. I'm trying to accurately report the story. I don't believe in one-sided reporting. If something good happens, I will explain it. If there is a setback, I will explain that as well and place it into context. I could, you know, some examples of that, Abu Ghraib. It was obviously a very big mistake for the military to do that. It was a political nightmare, a propaganda nightmare and a victory for al Qaeda.
VELSHI: Hang on a second. You've already got most of our audience on your side. But I want to talk to one of the audience members who had a show of hands who feels comfortable with the information that's coming out of Iraq. Let me ask you, sir. Your name and where you're from and why you feel like you are getting good information.
QUESTION: Bill Dorman from Landisville, Pennsylvania. I feel if there's too many layers of reporters and editors in the large organization that can check stories often enough. I think one person walking in and deciding a story and putting it out all over the Internet, I really don't think you can balance those two things at all.
VELSHI: Bill, what do you think?
ROGGIO: All I can say is my reporting on the military operations in Iraq is proven accurate. My reporting on the development of the Iraqi army in explaining what the levels of readiness has been accurate and is proven out over time. These are stories that the media has gotten dead wrong. Another story I've reported is the splits between al Qaeda and the Sunni insurgency. I've been talking about this for almost two years now. And all of a sudden this is the topic of du jour. I track these incidents. I keep track of each operation. And I tell the story and if I'm wrong, I talk about that too. And I haven't seen any incidents of that.
VELSHI: Barbara Starr, our correspondent who has to deal with this every day. Barbara, what do you think of what Bill's saying?
STARR: It's just hard to know where to begin because I was at that press conference where Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said this. He is extremely frustrated. His view without question is that the lack of support in the United States for the war reflected in the polls is a direct result of negative media reporting, his view. The view of this administration is that this is largely the media's fault.
One, you bet the media makes mistakes. There is no question about that. We couldn't turn out the volume. We do news. We don't do history. Responsible news organizations, responsible organizations correct their mistakes when they make them. There is also -- I'm not going to be quiet for a couple of minutes. There is also no question that this administration has engaged in what they call strategic communications, information operations, spin, spin, spin.
And one of the biggest tasks for journalists in covering Iraq is to sort out indeed the spin from the fact. And one of the other major tasks for journalists in covering Iraq is to understand that this war is happening to the people of Iraq. Many of them you bet. live in areas that are relatively safe. But if there's an IED, if there are snipers, if you are living in Baghdad and 50 bodies turn up choked and strangled, it's major combat. There is no question. As one person said to me, it's fine to report on the rebuilding of schools. But if you are too afraid to send your kid to school, which is the story?
So I think reporters feel that on the whole, they have done a responsible job. Here at CNN, we have covered many of the positive developments in Iraq. We have covered the elections around the clock when they are going on. We have interviewed many, many Iraqis endlessly in the last three years. But there is no question. Iraq is a violent dangerous place. And this war is ongoing. I mean, that's what's going on here. It's combat. VELSHI: Bill, that's pretty passionate for somebody who has to deal with this every day. What do you think?
ROGGIO: I wouldn't disagree that there's a war in Iraq. That's exactly what I'm reporting. I'm talking about the context of how this war is being reported. Particularly military operations are completely blown out of proportion. A perfect example is this air assault. The media took this story and ran like this was the largest operation, this air assault since the beginning of desert storm. This is just one air assault in a series of air assaults that I've reported on. Nobody is talking about that.
Another example would be the campaign to uproot al Qaeda insurgency in western Iraq. These stories were talked about as individual failures. Nobody took the time to track what the military was doing, ask questions and look at this in a greater context of a campaign to clear the insurgency. I imbedded in this area. I spent one month. I was on the streets of Iraq every day with the Marines and Iraqi soldiers. I saw how they live --
STARR: I think that Iraq has moved far beyond being a U.S. military operation. What's going on in Iraqi society right now is extremely complex. There are many parts of Iraq where people simply for a variety of reasons don't have electricity, don't have water, don't have fuel. Stay in their homes because they are afraid to go outside. And yes, you bet. There are parts of Iraq especially in the north where things are getting better. But it's a very complicated picture. And there are many things that U.S. troops are doing that are noble and courageous beyond belief, that would absolutely just stun you and bring tears to your eyes. And there are many things in Iraq that remain very, very difficult and I would tell you that some of the most senior generals in this country right now say they think Iraq is far from civil war, but they worry that it's closer to civil war than it's ever been before.
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ON THE STORY coming up in just a moment, but first a look at what's happening right now in the news. A convicted rapist is being held without bond in South Carolina tonight. Kenneth Hinson is accused of kidnapping and sexually assaulting two teenage girls. The girls managed to escape telling police Hinson left them tied up in an underground bunker on his property. Hinson was on the run from police for four days before he was caught.
Thousands of angry demonstrators set fires and fought with police in France today. They don't like a jobs plan that would make it easier to fire young people. A half million students and workers demonstrated in Paris and other cities.
Two U.S. Navy warships were doing routine security work off Somalia when suspected pirates opened fire on them. Sailors returned fire killing one suspect and wounding several others. Rocket propelled grenades and other weapons were seized.
And later on "CNN Presents," a look at America's oil dependence and what might happen if the spigot runs dry. "We Were Warned, Tomorrow's Oil Crisis." It's coming up later at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Right now, though, next, ON THE STORY, three years into the Iraq war and President Bush ignores calls to revamp his staff. Our correspondents put the Pentagon and White House under the microscope. I'm Carol Lin.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: This is CNN and we are on the story. From the campus of the George Washington University in the heart of the nation' capitol, our correspondents bring you the stories behind the stories they are covering. Barbara Starr is on the story of what she hears at the Pentagon three years after the start of the Iraq war. Elaine Quijano talks about President Bush, his new defense of Iraq policy and why the president ignores suggestions to overhaul his White House team.
Internet reporter Abbi Tatton looks for reaction online to coverage of the war. Ed Lavandera looks at protests and counter protests surrounding funerals of U.S. military killed in Iraq.
And Chris Huntington was on the story of the Enron corporate corruption trial as the government rolled out its big guns.
And a warm welcome to you. I'm Ali Velshi. I'll be talking about my conversation with a man who changed the way we work and live, Bill Gates. Barbara Starr is here with me and all of our correspondents will be taking questions from our studio audience drawn from visitors, college students and people across Washington.
Well, it's been three years since shock and awe began the Iraq war. This week new violence, a major military offensive and a new slump in U.S. public confidence in the war. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr was on the story. Here is Barbara's notebook.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As we approach the third anniversary of the beginning of the war in Iraq, now the story has changed. Senior commanders are saying their major security concern is the sectarian violence, Shia versus Sunni. Here in the Pentagon, it's clear that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld feels a good deal of frustration about the news coverage of the situation in Iraq. When he meets with the press corps, he expresses the frustration --
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Civil war. Do I think we are in a civil war at the present time, no?
STARR: There is a great feeling amongst the highest levels of the U.S. military that it is the militia groups, the Shia militias that have basically penetrated Iraqi police forces and are conducting many of the executions, the death squad actions across Iraq. Iraqi police reported 86 more bodies found in the capital in just 30 hours. There is great concern about what might come next.
VELSHI: Barbara Starr joins us now and for those of you -- I mean really, you could have turned the TV on at any hour this week and seen Barbara on. And one of the interesting peculiarities about your job at the Pentagon is you are there in that mix having to report on that from the Pentagon. So you can feel the nuance of change in the tone at the Pentagon. What did this week feel like? STARR: I think it was a change. I think a lot of us were thinking about where we were three years ago this week, what we thought the war was going to be all about. It was all about WMD at the beginning. We all remember that. Remember WMD? Then it became the insurgency. But somehow in the last three weeks or so since the bombing of the golden mosque in Samarra, suddenly now it's all different one more time. It's a new war. It's all about civil war and sectarian violence.
VELSHI: Let's go to the audience and see what they want to ask you about. Sir, your name and where you are from.
QUESTION: Hi, I'm Andrew Patrick from Asheville, North Carolina. And my question is when public support for a war goes bad, does it ever improve? And do you think America's support for this war will improve?
VELSHI: That's a very good question.
STARR: I'd make a lot more money if I knew the answer to that. It's a very difficult question. And it's a very difficult question for the military right now because the United States military knows it can only really conduct a military action, a war, if you will, if the American people support it. This is a country where there is civilian control of the military, where they can't operate on their own. And there is a much more sober tone these days with top military commanders. They are concerned. I think there's no question about it.
VELSHI: Your name and where you're from.
QUESTION: My name is Nathan. I'm from Virginia. I'm interested, in light of the increase in sectarian violence in Iraq and the Bush administration's sagging approval ratings, have the long term goals in Iraq changed?
STARR: Yes and no. That, too is a very interesting question. No, the long term goal for the United States military right now is to get enough -- we all hear this every day of the week, get enough Iraqi troops stand up. As they stand up, the U.S. stands down. But I do think that reality certainly has sunk in because what you do hear now is that it's not going to be, you know, what they call a Jeffersonian democracy that's in Iraq. Iraq is Iraq. Not every country is going to look at democracy as the United States looks at it. And so Iraq will always be something just a bit different. It's not going to be perhaps what we thought three years ago this war would result in.
VELSHI: Your name and where you're from.
QUESTION: Hi. My name's Kaylee and I'm from Houston. I was wondering with operation swarmer now in effect and the many incidents that have happened to journalists such as Bob Woodruff in Iraq. Do you see more journalists ready to endanger themselves to get that top headline story or are they starting to back down?
STARR: I think that any responsible journalist is going to be very cautious about going to Iraq and will ensure that they have security precautions in place. There are many journalists who still do want to go and many who have gone. We talked about it on this program a few weeks ago who now look at it and say, you know, not for me. I mean, you know, we are all people. It's great to say that we are all so brave and we are going to go off and do all this because it's very real.
VELSHI: But it's very real now.
STARR: It is very real. I think no one would forget that Jill Carroll somewhere tonight is in a dark room in Baghdad and is being held captive. That's pretty sobering to think about before you go to one of these places.
VELSHI: It's interesting that this war on a weekly basis throughout the whole thing has reminded people that traditionally those groups were thought of as been outside of the target range in a war zone aren't. People are getting attacked, kidnapped, all sorts of things are happening. You are not safe just because you are a journalist.
STARR: This has been the most deadly war that there has been for journalists I think since they started keeping records, something like 62 journalists. And those are journalists from around the world including, of course, many Iraqi reporters who are giving their lives to cover this story in their own country. This is a very, very deadly war. And the other shift that certainly has happened in the last several weeks is it is the Iraqi civilians who are suffering in this country greatly. We learned one absolutely staggering statistic this week that the rate of attacks against Iraqi civilians in a one-week period went up 65 percent. So the debate about whether it's civil war or not perhaps is irrelevant.
VELSHI: If people are getting --
STARR: If the bodies are God forbid piling up by the hour.
VELSHI: It continues to be a complicated story and it's hard to sort of sift through how many different issues you have to be on top of in a given week. They are dealing with so many different matters at the Pentagon. And I think you've been covering all of them this week.
STARR: It does seem like that some days.
VELSHI: President Bush has the war on his agenda in his speeches this week. Plus he was barraged with questions about overhauling his circle of advisers. Our Elaine Quijano is back on that story after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will not lose our nerve. We will help the Iraqi people succeed. Our goal in Iraq is victory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: President Bush on Thursday sticking to his guns on Iraq. White House correspondent Elaine Quijano is on the story. She joins us now from the White House. Boy, it's a good thing President Bush was sticking to his guns because he was under attack on Iraq this week as he has been in as many weeks as you can remember unless there was a domestic matter that he was under attack for. What's the tone? What's going on, Elaine?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are basically at that three-year mark now approaching the three-year anniversary of the start of the U.S.-led invasion. And so President Bush is really engaged in the latest White House push to try to turn around public opinion on Iraq. We all know the president's numbers have been way down. His approval rating has been way down in large part because of Iraq. They also know that these images of sectarian violence are really tough for Americans to see. So the strategy here for the White House is really to try and show that there is more than just beyond what people are seeing on their television screens, that the administration sees that there is progress going on. So that's going to be a part of the president's message. He's going to deliver a big speech on Monday in Cleveland to talk about it.
VELSHI: Elaine, questions from the audience. Sir your name and where you are from.
QUESTION: I'm Fredricko Delado (ph) from Guadalajara, Mexico. And President Bush's decision of pushing a new beat to explain the war in Iraq seems to be based on domestic political rationale. What sort of explanation is he going to give to international community?
QUIJANO: Well, what the White House would say to that is that in essence what they are doing is really not just focusing on the domestic, immediate sort of political difficulties that are facing this White House because of Iraq. But they are really looking at the big picture, long term. They have a firm belief here that what they are doing in Iraq is correct. They think in the end, democracy is going to emerge out of Iraq no matter how difficult things appear right now. And so this is basically going to be another chance for the president to appeal to the American people for patience.
Now of course domestic politics do play into this. You have Republicans who are looking at those mid-term reelection, the mid-term election coming up. And they are saying look, if things don't start to improve here, that could mean we'll have a difficult time come November. So there is of course that domestic political backdrop happening here. But the larger picture, the White House really thinks it can succeed. It has a strategy to succeed and so that's the message they are going to try and push.
VELSHI: Your name and where you are farm.
QUESTION: I'm Mark Leavitt from (INAUDIBLE) Michigan. I was wondering do you think there really is anything Bush can do to boost his popularity back up?
QUIJANO: Well, so much of it as we said depends on how things go with Iraq. Now of course there are a myriad of other issues that the president has faced, challenges on the Dubai Ports World deal. Of course, that was a recent controversy. That was really on the president's signature issue, national security. But what they are saying here is that they are not necessarily on Iraq, with these speeches looking to move poll numbers from one point to another. What they say is that they are essentially trying to give people a better understanding. As one senior administration official told me, one can have a better understanding but still be unsatisfied about the way things are going.
VELSHI: Sir, your name and where you are from.
QUESTION: Justin Lynn from Hyde Park, New York. I'm wondering with eight months left until the midterm elections, is the president looking to make some strategic changes within his core group or cabinet?
QUIJANO: Well, that's an interesting question because that was a story that certainly -- there was a lot of buzz about here at the White House. I should say more accurately it was outside the White House that a lot of this buzz was coming. What we had this past week was essentially some outsiders, some confidantes of the president's who were looking to perhaps influence the White House into make some additions. They weren't talking subtractions. They weren't talking about necessarily firing anyone. But they wanted to perhaps not so gently -- a bit more forcefully suggest to the White House that it was time for some new blood.
Now it's interesting to note about that is that these same confidantes, even as they were talking to reporters about this said they recognize full well that the more that this got out into the public's fear, into the public realm of discussion, that in fact this was going to be less likely to happen. But the bottom line was these were friends of the White House who were looking at the situation politically that the president is in right now, noting that his staff has been facing challenge after challenge and perhaps now is a time for new blood. But so far, no indication that anything's going to happen.
VELSHI: Never a dull moment on the White House beat. Elaine Quijano, thank you so much for joining us from the White House. We are staying the on the story of the administration and the war. I'll be taking a vote of our audience here about whether they are getting the coverage they want of the Iraq war. Just ahead, our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton goes on the story online for blogger reaction to how the war is covered. But first, another look behind the scenes at the White House with producer Becky Brittain.
BECKY BRITTAIN: First of all you don't have like unlimited access where you can just walk anywhere you want to. Basically you are kind of limited in where you hang out. Most of our time as a producer is spent in the White House booth downstairs. It's actually the bottom of the pool where the pool was before Nixon was the president. He closed it in. We hang out in this place that has no windows. It's the size of a small bathroom.
When Scott McClellan does his briefing, it just looks completely different than what it is in reality. The networks leave their gear here throughout the day. People are just kind of gathering here for different events. As the role of the producer, basically here to coordinate the coverage of the White House for CNN and that involves so many different little pieces.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: You are on the story. Tell us what topics you want discussed. E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com. Well Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld hasn't been shy about criticizing the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: In a steady stream of errors all seem to be of a nature to enflame the situation and to give heart to the terrorists and to discourage those who hope for success in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right. I want to ask our audience here about the level of confidence you have in the news that you get out of Iraq. Give me a show of hands if you have confidence in the news that comes out of Iraq. All right. Now let's see a show of hands. It looks like about 30 percent of you. Let's see a show of hands of those of you who don't have confidence like Donald Rumsfeld says. That looks like 90 percent of you. And 90 and 30 doesn't add up but we'll figure that out shortly. Let's go over to Abbi Tatton, our Internet reporter who's looking for reaction online to reporting about the war. Abbi, what are you seeing online?
ABBI TATTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ali, it's always a huge topic of discussion. How the media is doing the Iraq war in general. From the left, the right, the center. From military bloggers, it's all over the place. From bloggers here in the United States though, one of them is Bill Roggio. This is his blog. He was covering the war in Iraq from his home in New Jersey until he decided to take a leave of absence and got and imbed with a Marine unit in Iraq. Bill is now back and he is joining us from Philadelphia. Bill, thanks for joining us.
BILL ROGGIO, BILLROGGIO.COM: Thanks for having me, Abbi.
TATTON: Looking at your blog and why you do it, you say your blog's devoted to explaining the war on the one hand, but also combating the media. How's the media been doing over the last three years?
ROGGIO: I would say the media's performance in the war on terror and reporting the war on terror has been poor. I would give it a grade of a D plus. There's just been a lot of inaccurate reporting. Reporting on military operations often lacks context. And often the reporting plays into the hands of al Qaeda as well. They take a page out of the al Qaeda play book and re-report stories. There's incidents such as the incident in Ramadi last December where an AP stringer basically reported there was an uprising in Ramadi. And all the news organizations picked the story up and ran without cross checking it with the military. It wound up this just didn't happen and the story's out. Al Qaeda gets a victory that way.
TATTON: Now you went out there and you imbedded with a unit. But you're former military and you were invited by this unit to go out there. They had read your reporting already. Are you not too close to this to be objective yourself?
ROGGIO: No, I don't believe so. My purpose is to cover the military operations and cover the general war in Iraq and the general war on terror. I report the good and the bad. I'm trying to accurately report the story. I don't believe in one-sided reporting. If something good happens, I will explain it. If there is a setback, I will explain that as well and place it into context. I could, you know, some examples of that, Abu Ghraib. It was obviously a very big mistake for the military to do that. It was a political nightmare, a propaganda nightmare and a victory for al Qaeda.
VELSHI: Hang on a second. You've already got most of our audience on your side. But I want to talk to one of the audience members who had a show of hands who feels comfortable with the information that's coming out of Iraq. Let me ask you, sir. Your name and where you're from and why you feel like you are getting good information.
QUESTION: Bill Dorman from Landisville, Pennsylvania. I feel if there's too many layers of reporters and editors in the large organization that can check stories often enough. I think one person walking in and deciding a story and putting it out all over the Internet, I really don't think you can balance those two things at all.
VELSHI: Bill, what do you think?
ROGGIO: All I can say is my reporting on the military operations in Iraq is proven accurate. My reporting on the development of the Iraqi army in explaining what the levels of readiness has been accurate and is proven out over time. These are stories that the media has gotten dead wrong. Another story I've reported is the splits between al Qaeda and the Sunni insurgency. I've been talking about this for almost two years now. And all of a sudden this is the topic of du jour. I track these incidents. I keep track of each operation. And I tell the story and if I'm wrong, I talk about that too. And I haven't seen any incidents of that.
VELSHI: Barbara Starr, our correspondent who has to deal with this every day. Barbara, what do you think of what Bill's saying?
STARR: It's just hard to know where to begin because I was at that press conference where Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said this. He is extremely frustrated. His view without question is that the lack of support in the United States for the war reflected in the polls is a direct result of negative media reporting, his view. The view of this administration is that this is largely the media's fault. One, you bet the media makes mistakes. There is no question about that. We couldn't turn out the volume. We do news. We don't do history. Responsible news organizations, responsible organizations correct their mistakes when they make them. There is also -- I'm not going to be quiet for a couple of minutes. There is also no question that this administration has engaged in what they call strategic communications, information operations, spin, spin, spin.
And one of the biggest tasks for journalists in covering Iraq is to sort out indeed the spin from the fact. And one of the other major tasks for journalists in covering Iraq is to understand that this war is happening to the people of Iraq. Many of them you bet. live in areas that are relatively safe. But if there's an IED, if there are snipers, if you are living in Baghdad and 50 bodies turn up choked and strangled, it's major combat. There is no question. As one person said to me, it's fine to report on the rebuilding of schools. But if you are too afraid to send your kid to school, which is the story?
So I think reporters feel that on the whole, they have done a responsible job. Here at CNN, we have covered many of the positive developments in Iraq. We have covered the elections around the clock when they are going on. We have interviewed many, many Iraqis endlessly in the last three years. But there is no question. Iraq is a violent dangerous place. And this war is ongoing. I mean, that's what's going on here. It's combat.
VELSHI: Bill, that's pretty passionate for somebody who has to deal with this every day. What do you think?
ROGGIO: I wouldn't disagree that there's a war in Iraq. That's exactly what I'm reporting. I'm talking about the context of how this war is being reported. Particularly military operations are completely blown out of proportion. A perfect example is this air assault. The media took this story and ran like this was the largest operation, this air assault since the beginning of desert storm. This is just one air assault in a series of air assaults that I've reported on. Nobody is talking about that.
Another example would be the campaign to uproot al Qaeda insurgency in western Iraq. These stories were talked about as individual failures. Nobody took the time to track what the military was doing, ask questions and look at this in a greater context of a campaign to clear the insurgency. I imbedded in this area. I spent one month. I was on the streets of Iraq every day with the Marines and Iraqi soldiers. I saw how they live --
STARR: I think that Iraq has moved far beyond being a U.S. military operation. What's going on in Iraqi society right now is extremely complex. There are many parts of Iraq where people simply for a variety of reasons don't have electricity, don't have water, don't have fuel. Stay in their homes because they are afraid to go outside. And yes, you bet. There are parts of Iraq especially in the north where things are getting better. But it's a very complicated picture. And there are many things that U.S. troops are doing that are noble and courageous beyond belief, that would absolutely just stun you and bring tears to your eyes. And there are many things in Iraq that remain very, very difficult and I would tell you that some of the most senior generals in this country right now say they think Iraq is far from civil war, but they worry that it's closer to civil war than it's ever been before.
STARR: And there are many things in Iraq that remain very, very difficult. And I would tell you that some of the most senior generals in this country right now say they think Iraq is far from civil war, but they worry that it's closer to civil war than it's ever been before.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, the last word to you.
BILL ROGGIO, BILLROGGIO.COM: Sure.
I, again, I walked the streets of Iraq with the Iraqi troops and the U.S. soldiers and the people came out to greet us. We were -- the troops were working on projects, getting reconstruction set up. This is in Anbar Province. This is the worst part of Iraq. This story was never told and the reporting still indicates that Anbar is the worst province in Iraq.
I think that it's being reported...
ABBI TATTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, we appreciate...
ROGGIO: ... that because there is -- because reporters don't go out there and embed.
TATTON: Bill, we appreciate you joining us today.
Thank you so much.
Ali, as far as we know -- and Bill and I were discussing this earlier -- we think he's the first blogger to be invited to be an embedded reporter in Iraq.
Ali -- back to you.
VELSHI: And, Bill, you're invited to come back and talk to us on ON THE STORY.
Abbi, thanks very much.
Bill, thanks very much to you.
Barbara, thanks, as well.
Some of the families of U.S. military personnel killed in Iraq have seen private grief become a public spectacle. Anti-homosexuality protesters, counter-protesters, politicians, they've all been getting involved. Our Dallas bureau chief Ed Lavandera is back on that story.
And we're ON THE STORY from there, from Washington and New York and elsewhere.
Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JAMIE FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last year, Chinese police reported 87,000 public disturbances across China. Many of those involved, farmers protesting over land seizures, corruption, taxes and pollution. Rural unrest could jeopardize the Communist Party's rule. That's why Premier Wen and his comrades are eager to please the restless farmers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CORRESPONDENT: Student protests have disrupted around half of France's 80 universities. Students are protesting new labor laws which will allow companies to hire people under the age of 26 for a two year trial period before offering them permanent jobs. French Prime Minister De Villepin argues the new jobs plan will cut unemployment.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's another busy, noisy day at the market north of Cairo. Buying a camel is a lot like buying a car. But instead of kicking the tire, you pat the hump. The camel is the meal of choice for many Egyptians, who say camel meat is good for you, thankfully free from bird flu or Mad Cow Disease.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: More of ON THE STORY in just a moment.
But first, a look at what's happening now in the news.
A wanted man caught in South Carolina. Police say 47-year-old Kenneth Hinson sexually assaulted and imprisoned two teenaged girls in an underground bunker. One of Hinson's family members turned him in.
A wild scene in Paris. Thousands in the French capital, a half a million across the country, take to the streets. They're protesting a new law that allows companies to fire younger workers during the first two years on the job. Protesters set cars on fire and clashed with police. At least 16 people were hurt.
And two U.S. Navy warships trade fire with suspected pirates off the coast of Africa today. The Navy says no Americans were hurt, but one suspect was killed and five others wounded. The Navy says the suspects were carrying what appeared to be rocket-propelled grenade launchers.
Now, coming up, "CNN PRESENTS: WE WERE WARNED," a look at America's oil dependence and where we might turn for alternative sources of energy.
That's coming up at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. More news in 30 minutes.
Now back to ON THE STORY.
VELSHI: CNN is ON THE STORY here at the George Washington University in the heart of the nation's capital.
Funerals of some U.S. military personnel who are killed in Iraq have become more than the private grieving of their families. They have become the center of noisy protests by fundamentalist Christians who claim the G.I. deaths were because of U.S. policies on homosexuality and by bikers trying to drown out the other protesters.
Well, Ed Lavandera is on that story.
Here's Ed's Reporter's Notebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There have been many families, military families, who, on the dreaded day of having to bury a fallen soldier, a loved one, have been surprised by this family showing up and holding up signs that read, "Thank God for IEDs."
There have been some groups that have come up -- come out and tried to support these families and making sure that these days go as smoothly as possible. One of them in particular is a group called the Patriot Guard Riders. Part of their mission is to also make sure Davila's family doesn't see or hear Fred Phelps.
Trying to interview the Phelps family often becomes a very confrontational kind of affair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to talk to you if you don't get censured (ph).
LAVANDERA: I'm just trying to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you're not.
LAVANDERA: Yes, I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're a pervert.
LAVANDERA: He basically told me I was not worth talking to. And a lot of times people who see these stories would rather that we not give coverage to protesters and people who have such radical views, you know? But in this case, not one time have any of the soldiers' families that we have interviewed asked us not to do it. They've told us over and over again that they think it's a good thing.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
VELSHI: Ed Lavandera joins us now from Dallas.
And, Ed, Barbara Starr is with me today and she has -- she's been familiar with other aspects of this story, as well, so she's going to kick it off.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Ed, I know you and I both struggled with this, because I did a piece alongside you about the Pentagon's reaction to these protesters, about what the military thought about all of it. And I know that you and I both struggled with the same question -- do you -- does our news coverage give publicity to people with these very extremist views, which certainly are offensive to the military, and, I think, to the majority of Americans?
I came to the conclusion that it was so important, it was so newsworthy, it was a story worth doing. But you and I haven't had a chance to talk about this.
What did you -- what kind of reaction did you get out there?
Did people support you covering this very radical element?
LAVANDERA: You know, most did. Some, you know, told us that very same point, you know, by you guys being here you're just giving these people a platform and that sort of thing.
But let me give people a little bit of background as to how we came about starting to do these stories about a month ago.
We've known about these protests and the Phelps have done this more than 100 times since last June.
We first started hearing about this last summer. And it's one of those things you kind of put in the back of your mind. It's on the radar. You pay attention. They kept doing it and kept doing it and kept doing it. And, unfortunately, I think it got to the point where, as I've mentioned and I've said before, there were many families caught off guard.
Many of these funerals take place in small towns. There is not a lot of barrier between a family walking into the church and this family standing 15, 20 feet across the street and hearing the things that they're yelling.
So, many of the families that we've talked to have said if people see this and they put it in the back of their mind that if they ever get the news that their loved one has been killed in Iraq or Afghanistan, that this might be coming their way, if they can get friends or other family members to kind of help them and support them, that they will be a little bit more prepared on that dreaded day.
VELSHI: Ed, let's go to the audience for a question.
Sir, your name and where you're from?
MATT SCHIMLER: Hi.
Matt Schimler from Van Buren, Ohio.
And is it difficult when covering a story similar to this to maintain a neutral angle and one without your personal opinion when covering a story like this?
VELSHI: Particularly when they're calling you a pervert.
LAVANDERA: Don't think that my friends haven't had a field day with that one.
It is difficult. I mean, I'll be honest. But, you know, at the same time, there is a certain amount of, you know, I can't remember who had said it, but, you know, not every side to a story is equal. So I mean there's going to be a point in these -- in this interview and as I questioned this Phelps family where I have to be perhaps a lot more firm than what you're going to be with the military family.
And I think people expect that and, you know, it's something I'm comfortable with, especially given, you know, that we've given them plenty of opportunities to defend themselves.
But, yes, I'm going to go in there and ask, you know, the questions a lot tougher of them than, you know, the -- it's -- the family that is sitting there mourning isn't the reason I'm there. It's the people who are showing up to bother those people, is the reason I'm there.
VELSHI: And lots at stake in the Enron corporate corruption trial in Houston this week.
Can the government make its complicated case? Are the rules rather than the rule breakers really to blame?
Our Chris Huntington is back on that story after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: CNN is ON THE STORY.
The legal and financial drama called Enron saw star witnesses in the spotlight this week. The highest ranking executive to plead guilty, Andy Fastow, testified for the government and so did the whistleblower, Sherron Watkins.
Our Chris Huntington was on that story.
Let's click back to his report.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sherron Watkins is known famously as the Enron whistleblower and for her equally famous memo to Ken Lay warning that Enron would implode in accounting scandals.
In mid-August, 2001, Watkins was a vice president working with Andrew Fastow on Enron's complex financial deals. Lay had just reassumed the role of CEO after Jeff Skilling's unexpected resignation. Enron was starting to buckle under the weight of massive losses hidden in Fastow's transactions, and Watkins knew it. She began her memo to lay asking: "Has Enron become a risky place to work?" she noted Skilling's abrupt departure would "raise suspicions of accounting improprieties." And she concluded with the hauntingly accurate prediction: "I am incredibly nervous that we will implode in a wave of accounting scandals."
Since Enron's collapse, Watkins has never been shy about publicly pointing the finger at the two men now on trial.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
VELSHI: And Chris Huntington joins us now from New York -- Chris, this is what could end up being a four month trial. We're almost at the half way point. It is about accounting. It's incredibly complicated.
Where are we right now?
HUNTINGTON: Well, the is just about finished with its half of the case. And, in fact, their challenge -- and I'd say they're doing a pretty good job of it -- is, in fact, not to make it complicated.
The witnesses that they've put up, most of them former Enron employees -- and many of them have already pleaded guilty -- are telling a fairly simple story of what has been repeatedly called a culture of corruption at Enron. And I have to say, their testimony has been compelling and the government, for a good reason, has been staying away from the accounting complexities.
VELSHI: I got to spend some time with you at the beginning of that trial in Houston when it kicked off.
HUNTINGTON: Yes.
VELSHI: Lots of what goes on, the audience, like any of us, sees very little of what actually goes on in the course of a day. You get most of your information almost in between things, in breaks, in halls, talking to people who are hanging out there.
HUNTINGTON: This -- it's a fascinating theater. And I mean that almost literally, because when court is in session, it's very controlled. And, obviously, the two sides are squared off against one another. The judge is in control. It's a hushed tone. It's very regimented.
But then in the recesses and out in the hallways or outside, things are loose and it had sometimes the air literally of intermission at a theater. You see the attorneys, opposing attorneys, the defense attorneys and the prosecutors yukking it up, Ken Lay and his wife strolling to get sandwiches, Jeff Skilling beaming at his kids. It is an interesting atmosphere and you try to, in some cases, just sort of sidle up and maybe you even eavesdrop a little bit on some of the stuff.
Indeed, in this kind of a case, people are generally pretty tight-lipped. But once you're there for a while -- and we've had the luxury of having been there now for several weeks -- you do get to, to get a quick whisper from some of the key players. And that's been very, very helpful in our reporting.
VELSHI: Chris, we're going to go to the audience with some questions.
Sir, your name and where you're from?
MIKE: My name is Mike from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.
And I was wondering if the...
VELSHI: Hi, Mike.
MIKE: Hi.
I was wondering if the Enron case will set a new standard for other cases?
HUNTINGTON: Well, it is the capstone of the government's four year effort to crack down on all of the big white collar securities cases that came out of, really out of the dot-com boom. So it's hugely important for setting a benchmark for the government's standard of not putting up with any kind of corporate shenanigans.
The thing that I'm worried about is that even if they secure convictions in this case, as they did in WorldCom -- Bernie Ebbers is going to jail for 25 years -- you're going to see this kind of crime again. Wherever there is money building up you're going to have thievery. And it's just -- I'd be amazed if 10 years from now we aren't reporting on some other huge financial industry-based crime.
VELSHI: And while a lot of people don't think about it now, this was one of the biggest companies in America, thousands of people put out to work.
Sir, your name and where you're from.
ALEX: Alex from Huntsville, Texas.
Now, in a case or a story like this, that's expected to last an extended amount of time, how does a reporter adjust in order to keep the story fresh day after day and avoid becoming dull and repetitive?
HUNTINGTON: Well, the beauty of this story is that there is so much to report on that if the action is maybe a little bit slow in the court, you can dig further into what is, in the case of Enron, has been the subject of books and movies. And there is so much to tell. And there actually is, in the stream of witnesses well beyond just the celebrity witnesses, the so-called star witnesses, all of these folks have interesting and subtle things to point out about what happened at the company.
So, in point of fact, there's actually -- you never really run out of material. The tough thing in a story like this is to do justice to what's actually going on in the courtroom in the quick reports that we have to do on a daily basis. I mean, again, these are -- seven hours a day of testimony going over four months, there's an awful lot of ground that's covered, and we can only get to so much of it.
VELSHI: Chris, a pleasure to see you.
Thank you for joining us here ON THE STORY.
Chris Huntington in New York.
Coming up, I'll tell you about my conversation with the world's richest man and what he sees in his crystal ball.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: CNN is back ON THE STORY at the George Washington University.
This week, I had a rare opportunity to sit down with Microsoft founder Bill Gates. The world's richest man wanted to turn attention away from his accomplishments and focus on the future, which he says is in digital pictures and a company called Corbis.
Take a look at my Reporter's Notebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
VELSHI (voice-over): One a year Corbis has its annual meeting. And in order to focus attention on Corbis as a company, the company brings Bill Gates out to talk a little bit. But they know that most people who want to talk to Bill Gates don't necessarily want to talk about Corbis. They want to talk about Microsoft or the state of the world or all sorts of things that Bill Gates is involved in, or the fact that he's the richest man in the world.
Now, that's tricky, because as a journalist you don't want to be making these deals about what you can and can't talk about. But at the same time, there's an opportunity here to get access to Bill Gates. So as long as you don't sort of go in and say something specifically framed around Microsoft, you can probably keep him in a good mood.
BILL GATES, FOUNDER, MICROSOFT: The size of the screen with your desktop PC will be large. The tablet PC you carry around will be very convenient.
VELSHI: On TV, we presented it as two topics. We did one story on Corbis and the future of digital imaging and why that's an interesting business for Bill Gates to be in. And then we did another whole discussion, which was my interview with him on education and competitiveness. So it was worth going in with a -- with a plan of attack that would get what we needed.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
STARR: Ali, the world's richest man still seems like quite an unassuming guy.
VELSHI: It's unbelievable when you know that this man has a net worth of about $50 billion and he's sitting there just like anybody else. He gets passionate when he's talking about his causes. And, as you can see there, he gets passionate when he talks about electronics and technology.
And so it was a lot of fun to sit with him.
Sir, your name and where you're from?
DANIEL: Hi, I'm Daniel from Zanesville, Ohio.
I was wondering, where does Mr. Gates see the future of film and digital technology going? Is it intimidating to sit down with the world's most successful entrepreneur? And is he a Mac or PC user?
VELSHI: I don't know whether he's a Mac or PC user, but he did refer to Apple in one of his answers about successful American companies. So I thought that was interesting.
He doesn't give off a vibe that makes him intimidating and as an entrepreneur, it's almost attractive to want to talk to somebody who is that successful an entrepreneur.
He sees the business of digital photography, he sees the money in there in that we're going to use imagery so much that the company Corbis is a broker of digital images. And he sees there being a lot of money in the licensing and brokering of images.
So he sees that as the next big thing.
Well, that's all the time we have to talk about that.
Just ahead, we're going to check on what we're looking at next week ON THE STORY.
Stay with us.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Well, let's take a quick look at what we're going to be looking ahead at ON THE STORY next week, if it were possible to guess, because I don't know if you would have guessed this week a week ago.
STARR: Next week, headed up to the U.S. military academy at West Point to see what the cadets are thinking about the war in Iraq.
VELSHI: All right.
STARR: And you, sir?
VELSHI: I will be here in Washington for, I think, three days of the week. I've got some conferences going on that I'll be working with business leaders on, talking about how best to deal with catastrophes, from a business point of view.
That's it for us for this week.
Thank you for being with me.
Thank you for being here.
To my colleagues and our audience here at the George Washington University, and thank you for watching ON THE STORY.
We're back each week Saturday night and Sunday afternoon.
Straight ahead, a check on what's making news right now.
LIN: Good evening.
I'm Carol Lin.
Right now in the news, bail denied for Kenneth Hinson. The South Carolina man is accused of kidnapping and sexually assaulting two teenaged girls. The girls told police Hinson held them in an underground bunker. Hinson has another hearing on Monday.
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