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Your World Today
Man Who Threw Item Over White House Fence in Custody; Bomb Threat to San Francisco Subway System; Basque Separatists Announce 'Permanent Truce'; Interview with Ayad Allawi
Aired March 22, 2006 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And I do think it bears repeating what Mike Goller (ph) has learned from the Secret Service, which is that this was a small item thrown over the fence by a man who is known to the Secret Service, a male who is now in Secret Service custody, and that he has been known to throw non-dangerous items over the fence in the past.
And Daryn, as I was listening to you talk to John Roberts and John King about, you know, sort of what it's like to be inside the White House gates and to see things happen, and to sort of determine whether or not it's something that should be reported or not, this is something that is -- the measure that the Secret Service has gone to in this particular case, shutting off the area for this period of time, is something that is longer than usual, but there have been many times where we've seen not just things thrown over the gate, but people.
There have been fence jumpers, for example. That happening pretty regularly. And it's the kind of thing that happens, and we watch the person get taken into custody and get taken off. And it's the kind of thing that we don't report all the time, because the person isn't necessarily dangerous and there was no consequence.
And again, it's the kind of thing that perhaps they are doing for attention. And we don't want to encourage. But because of this post- 9/11 world that we have all been talking about, because there is always a heightened sense of awareness and alert in and around the White House, there are things that happen on almost a daily basis that people are sort of looking at and wondering if something is potentially dangerous.
In this particular case, Daryn, I'm definitely getting the sense that this could be resolved and we could get the all-clear perhaps in the next several minutes.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. We haven't gotten the all-clear yet, but it does look, as Dana was pointing out, that things are winding down at the White House. We saw the robot make its way back to the truck.
John King has been watching this with us from the bureau.
John, if we do get the all-clear within a matter of minutes, that would go about the timeframe that you were predicting, that these things take about an hour to play out. JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Daryn.
I'm just hanging up the phone -- Jim, thank you very much.
Just hanging up the phone with Jim Macken (ph), who's a Secret Service officer and a great man. And he says the all-clear has been given and they will open the gates momentarily, which means Dana has to go to work. She might want to grab a cup of coffee before she goes in.
And as we have the all-clear, and our coverage, of course, will finish up in just a minute, just one last time, I did this for eight years, plus. Every one of my gray hairs inside those gates you're looking at right now.
And one of the things you do every day is you interact with men and women who don't get much credit, the Secret Service, the uniformed people at the gate. You had Joe Russo (ph) on, who are in the protective detail.
The agents -- the officers you see in uniform, the agents are the gentlemen who are in plain clothes. And they do remarkable work.
It's our job, of course, to stay in the middle of the road and to stay objective. But they do remarkable work and they don't get much credit for it. And they have to do things like this.
It is protocol. They have to do this every day. They don't like it even when they're 99 -- again, as I said, when it's 99 percent sure it's nothing, they have to go about this. And the all-clear has been given and the gentlemen, I'm told, is being questioned now at the Washington field office and is likely to be charged later today, and we will continue to follow that, of course.
KAGAN: And that means that Kathleen Koch and our crew there that have been corralled into the briefing room in the bottom of the White House probably will be making their way out very soon, as well.
John, thank you for that reporting that it's been given the all- clear at the White House.
The suspicious item that was found, they checked it out. A person of interest in custody right now.
Meanwhile, we have that other developing story from the San Francisco Bay area. A suspicious package that they are looking at, at a BART station, which is the rapid transit, the Bay Area Rapid Transit system in Oakland on the eastern part of the bay area.
Fredricka Whitfield has the latest on that -- Fred.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: That's right, Daryn. And an all-clear has been given there in the West Oakland station there, the BART system. So now all the trains are moving, so the crowds of people who were being delayed in their morning rush hour are now being allowed to get back on those trains. And you can see from this live picture right there they are moving and all systems go.
KAGAN: Good news from the West Coast all the way to Washington, D.C.
Over the last hour, we have been watching two different situations of suspicious natures. One at that Bay area at the BART station in Oakland. That's been given the all-clear. And more importantly, we've been watching the one at the White House, the item, the suspicious item. That has been given the all-clear as well.
I want to thank everyone who's been helping us with our coverage, John King, Dana Bash, and Kathleen Koch, and Joe Russo (ph), and Pat DeMurro (ph).
Thank you to all of you.
We are going to go ahead and join the program that you usually see at this hour here on CNN, YOUR WORLD TODAY, with a huge slate of international news.
I'll have the latest headlines from here in the U.S. in about 15 minutes.
I'm Daryn Kagan.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... for the future of Iraq is a coalition government, a government of national unity that would bring in all the ethnic groups, the sectarian groups in the country. But he says he's not convinced the United Iraqi Alliance wants to go in that direction.
He thinks perhaps they want to form a government form within their own political ranks. And he said if they do that, that would just exacerbate the current sectarian tensions.
JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: All right. Nic Robertson, a very important interview there.
Ayad Allawi, a man who may be yearning for the prime minister's post, once again, but a man who also has his finger on the intelligence that is there in Iraq today.
Nic, thank you very much.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States now. We've been talking about Iraq, and we really want you to weigh in on our "Question of the Day."
CLANCY: That's right. Does the media accurately portray what is happening in Iraq?
Now, President Bush says the media may actually be encouraging the insurgents, because they can command the headlines with car bombings and killings. Let us know what you think. Go to YWT -- or rather e-mail us at YWT@CNN.com and tell us a thing or two.
VERJEE: Many people in Spain are calling it the beginning of the end of an era of nearly 40 years of violence. The Basque separatist group fighting for an independent region says that it's ready to put down its arms permanently.
In a statement released on Wednesday, ETA said it made this decision to promote a democratic process and to build a framework in which the rights of the Basque people will be recognized. Spain's prime minister says the government's position is one of caution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE LUIS RODRIGUEZ ZAPATERO, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I think that -- that after ETA's statements, we have a hard-working future ahead of us. We have to be prudent, responsible, and be calm. And we must have all of wills together. If we are facing an issue of state, as I believe, I think we can all share it. And I can assure you that the government is going to do everything in its power to make sure that we face this issue together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: Now, this is a huge development. We've talked this day with Spanish journalists who say there's a lot of hope in the country right now that one of the last rebellions, if you will, open wars in a Western European country, could be laid to rest.
ETA has declared cease-fires in the past, though. And negotiations then failed and the violence came back.
The question now is, will this so-called permanent truce really stick?
Madrid Bureau Chief Al Goodman reports on ETA's 37-year campaign and what it's done to Spain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AL GOODMAN, CNN MADRID BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): A car bomb kills four, including a supreme court judge. Twenty-one people murdered in this supermarket bombing. Two of many attacks by the Basque separatist group ETA that terrorized Spaniards the past 37 years.
ETA is blamed for more than 800 deaths. The group says it's fighting for independence for the Basque people, but most Spaniards, the European Union and the United States say ETA is just a terrorist organization.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The only possible position on terrorism is to wipe it out.
GOODMAN: ETA nearly killed Afnar (ph) when he was the conservative opposition leader, but his armor-plated car saved him.
Basques are an ancient sea-fearing people. Their hills isolated them from the rest of Europe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most important thing for us is our language.
GOODMAN: In the Basque language, ETA stands for "Basque Homeland and Liberty."
The dictator Francisco Franco suppressed the Basques and their language ETA started during his rule. Now, in democratic Spain, the Basque flag flies freely, Basque is taught in schools and the region has brought autonomy.
That hasn't been enough for ETA and some Basque pro-independence parties. Spain officially recognizes three provinces as the Basque country, but ETA also wants another Spanish province, Navarra, and a part of France added. A homeland, they say, for three million Basques.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Every Spanish interior minister from Franco's time until now has claimed victory over ETA. But no one has achieved it.
GOODMAN: The 1980s was ETA's deadliest decade, targeting Spanish police and military personnel. ETA's killing of a Basque town councilman in 1977 was a watershed event prompting the largest crowds ever, millions of Spaniards, to protest ETA's violence.
Police raids against ETA have become more effective as Spain boosted cooperation with France, ETA's traditional rear guard. More than 500 ETA prisoners are in Spanish jails.
Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero says Spanish policy remains the same, no talks with ETA until it renounces violence and lays down its arms.
There have been two important ETA cease-fires before, but talks each time broke down and the violence resumed. The question now, will this time be different?
Al Goodman, CNN, Madrid.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: To Israel now, where elections are just a week away. Polls show that the centrist Kadima party has the most support at this point. It's led by the acting prime minister, Ehud Olmert.
Olmert took the helm after illness incapacitated Prime Minister Ariel Sharon back in January. He's a former mayor of Jerusalem, and in recent weeks announced that if he's elected, he will drastically cut funding for Israel's West Bank settlements.
Benjamin Netanyanu, his conservative Likud party is trailing Kadima in the polls. The former prime minister has his eye on the post again and has made the economy a key part in his platform. Netanyahu vehemently opposed Israel's withdraw from Gaza. That's unlike Amir Peretz. Now, he supported it. He heads the leftist Labor party. The former mayor of Sderot is considered a dove by comparison. Peretz has made fighting poverty a key plank in his campaign platform.
CLANCY: Well, with a Hamas-led government for the Palestinians, Israel, of course, being faced with some challenges and some choices and decisions to make about the peace process and unilateral actions to be taken.
Guy Raz has more on that from Jerusalem.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUY RAZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A recent Israeli military raid on this Palestinian prison might offer a foreboding glimpse into the imminent breakdown in diplomacy here. Six militants inside were wanted by Israel. But for four years they were incarcerated in a Palestinian-run prison.
It was part of an agreement signed between Israel and the previous Palestinian government. But the new Palestinian government, led by the Islamic movement Hamas, had vowed to free the men, saying all prior agreements between Israel and the previous Palestinian government are invalid. A position inevitably that will mean no formal communication between the next Israeli government and the current Palestinian Authority.
MAJ. GEN. YAAKOV AMIDROR, JERUSALEM CENTER FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS: In a way, we are in a lose-lose situation.
RAZ: Lose-lose, says retired Israeli general Yaakov Amidror, because the ties that bind Israelis and Palestinians economically and politically are difficult to untangle.
If Israel cuts ties, it could lead to a humanitarian crisis in the West Bank in Gaza, as well as international pressure to end it. But few Israeli politicians are willing to talk to a Palestinian government led by men who are publicly committed to the country's destruction.
DAN MERIDOR, ISRAEL DEMOCRACY INSTITUTE: As long as your partner in negotiations says, I'm ready to discuss just one thing of you, the procedure of your funeral, you don't discuss it.
RAZ: But for better or worse, Hamas now represents the Palestinian Authority, a body Israel has negotiated with for more than a decade. And some Israelis analysts are calling for continuity.
SHAUL MISHAL, PROFESSOR, TEL AVIV UNIVERSITY: I think that we Israelis should be open to all channels, to talk with everybody.
RAZ: Professor Shaul Mishal, widely acknowledged in Israel as a leading expert on Hamas, sees a silver lining.
(on camera): Hamas isn't offering a permanent peace deal, nor is it offering to recognize the Jewish state, but it is offering a long- term truce. And it's an idea not without precedent in the Middle East.
MISHAL: Israel is operating on this notion of truce from 1948. With Egypt's deal, 1977. OK, under different names, cease-fire, truce. With Jordan in 1974 or 1975. With Syria, it was the same thing.
RAZ: Syria, for example, considers itself officially at war with Israel, but the two countries haven't engaged in active fighting since 1973.
Meanwhile, Israel's unilateral pullout from some Palestinian land last summer likely provides a blueprint for what to expect next. It's a concept that now has wide support through Israel. And while it may not bring about reconciliation, it could, for the moment, bring some type of stability.
Guy Raz, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: In the United States, support for the war in Iraq has hit just about an all-time low in public opinion.
VERJEE: Coming up, can the country's embattled president sell his public on continued involvement in Iraq?
Stay with us. Some analysis next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VERJEE: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International.
U.S. President George W. Bush's latest campaign to shore up sagging support for the Iraq war has rolled into the state of West Virginia. You're looking at some live pictures.
President Bush's message to Americans has been democracy and stability can prevail in Iraq and don't believe much of what you hear reported about the situation there.
Candy Crowley has more on the Bush administration's latest campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Does the coverage of war's violence change the war?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not suggesting you shouldn't talk about it. I'm certainly not being -- you know, please don't take that as criticism. But it also is a realistic assessment of the enemy's capability to effect a debate. And they know that.
They are capable of blowing up innocent life so it ends up on your TV show.
CROWLEY: He sees a symbiotic relationship between violence in Iraq and the coverage of it. A cycle draining support for the war.
It is a recurring theme in Bushville that negative news coverage is making the war worse. Not that direct, but close.
The defense secretary also complains of news that is flat wrong.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The steady stream of errors all seem to be of a nature to inflame the situation and to give heart to the terrorists, and to discourage those who hope for success in Iraq.
CROWLEY: Critics dismiss the charges as the excuses of an administration in its darkest day. Still, it is not wholly incorrect. Click the remote...
ELIZABETH VARGAS, ABC NEWS: A major insurgent attack has dealt another blow to the struggling security forces.
CROWLEY: ... from one channel...
VERJEE: Insurgents armed with rocket grenades and machine guns stormed a police station today.
CROWLEY: ... to another...
CAMPBELL BROWN, NBC NEWS: ... a prison in Sunni territory, killing 18 policemen and freeing all the prisoners.
CROWLEY: What goes largely unseen, reporters agree, are large areas of the country where few of them go because travel is so risky. Most reporters are either embedded with the military or confined to areas around Baghdad where bad news comes to find you.
ABC reporter Jake Tapper was covering a story about Iraqi comedy when their main contact was assassinated.
JAKE TAPPER, ABC REPORTER: And so our cameras were rolling while the director and the producer and the cast and crew found out that the guy that had green-lit the show and the guy that has set up our being there was killed. So, no matter how hard we try to cover the positive, the violence has a way of rearing its head.
CROWLEY: Good stories are hard to cover and hard to see in the midst of what one reporter called "the daily boom."
BUSH: Others look at the violence they see each night on their television screens and they wonder how I can remain so optimistic about the prospects of success in Iraq. They wonder what I see that they don't.
CROWLEY: A picture tells a thousand words, and the president has few pictures of his own.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: Now, the president is speaking right as we're broadcasting this in Wheeling, West Virginia. He hasn't yet started on that message about the war in Iraq. He's talking about a lot of different subjects.
We might dip back into that if he does. But we don't expect anything new that we haven't heard already in the last two days.
For more now on what Mr. Bush is doing and whether he will succeed, we are joined by Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider.
The American people have seen this before. President Bush comes out swinging on issues like Iraq, attacks his critics and rallies those poll numbers.
Will it work again?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, much depends on what happens on the ground. And, of course, as the president said, what happens on the ground is mostly bad news, as is reported to Americans.
The reason he's going out again and again in speeches like the one now, in press conferences, is to say to the American people, there is another reality. He's not denying the reality of the bad news. He says they're not misreporting it, it is happening, all these terrible things are happening, but there are other things happening as well that can give us encouragement.
So the president is taking it upon himself to present the other news, and we're covering it.
CLANCY: We are covering it. And, you know, as somebody who has been to Iraq, there are many times when we would like to go out and cover the positive stories, and they are there, but it's simply not safe enough, Bill, on the streets to do that. The president conceded it was a difficult situation.
What's hurting the president? You tell me. Is it the fact that his own generals, some of the neo-cons, are all admitting, we didn't foresee this? I think it was Peter Pace that said -- the general, that said, you know, I didn't foresee that the Iraqis would stand on the sideline this long and not support a central government.
SCHNEIDER: Yes. Well, that's the problem.
There was an election, which always gives Americans encouragement, and they still can't form a government. That election was back in January.
There was supposed to be good news that we're making progress, and suddenly that terrible bombing in Samarra. And the result has been a lot of concern about a civil war, which distresses Americans, because they look at that and they say, well, if that country's having a civil war between religious factions, that's not really any business of ours.
Look, the bottom line is, Americans are interested in what's happening to Americans, American troops over there. If an American gets killed, if Americans get wounded, that's what interests the American news media and that's what interests the American people.
CLANCY: What are the Democrats doing with this? There has been talk even about impeaching the president.
SCHNEIDER: Yes. Well, there is talk about that. They don't control Congress, and that's not likely to go very far, although the Republicans are actually trying to make it a campaign issue.
They are saying, if you vote for a Democratic Congress, you are voting for impeachment, which is something Americans are very skittish about right now. Even those who are very critical of Bush. There doesn't seem to be a lot of support for taking that kind of action.
So the Democrats can be faulted, you know, if you say, well, they don't really have a plan. No, they don't really have a plan. But they are the out party. They didn't lead the country into the situation in Iraq, so a lot of Americans say perhaps it's really a triumph of hope here. Perhaps they would handle it better.
CLANCY: All right. Bill Schneider, as always, some great analysis, looking at all of the situation as the president tries his best to sell the U.S. public on continuing their support for the war in Iraq.
VERJEE: We're going to check financial markets when we come back.
CLANCY: And then later, a conversation with Iraq's former prime minister. We talked with Ayad Allawi on where Iraq is now and where it's headed and what should be done about it. His view next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN Center in Atlanta. More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes.
First, though, let's check stories making headlines here in the U.S.
First to Detroit, Michigan. More than 50 schools forced to close today.
Fredricka Whitfield tells us why -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: That's right, Daryn. A big ripple effect when about 1,500 of the school district's 10,000 teachers call in sick. Apparently, they are carrying out this sick-out in protest of what the school district is asking them to do: take five days unpaid, but they will eventually get paid that five days in 2007. But in exchange, the school district wants to balance its budgets.
And now, while earlier today we were told about four elementary schools are being closed in direct result from this sick-out, now we're hearing 54 schools in all are closed as a result of this sick- out. And, of course, the student -- the teachers union is saying it's unfair for them to have to make these concessions while they understand there are other principals and even administrators who will be enjoying pay raises while these teachers are being asked to take five days without pay -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Fredricka Whitfield.
Thank you.
We will continue to follow that story out of Michigan.
President Bush is in West Virginia this hour. He's delivering remarks on the global war on terror. He's appearing before about 2,000 people in the Capital Music Hall in Wheeling, West Virginia.
Over the past several days, Mr. Bush has been taking his message on the road, defending the U.S.-led war in Iraq.
While that was happening in West Virginia, the drama was at the White House. For more than an hour, we were watching this live unfold on CNN, watching these dramatic pictures from the White House as authorities were investigating a suspicious item they say a man tossed on to the White House grounds.
That meant that the reporters on the White House had to go into the briefing room. But they have been let out now, and that includes our Kathleen Koch, who joins us live from the White House.
Kathleen, hello.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Daryn. Free at last.
We were sprung about three minutes ago. However, they have not yet opened the northwest gate, the area where reporters normally come and go to and from the White House.
And, again, apparently what infolded was that this person, a male known to the Secret Service apparently who had done this sort of thing before, had thrown some item over the fence and on to the White House grounds. A small robot had to be brought here, Pennsylvania Avenue entirely shut down, as well as the White House grounds. Remove the item and took it away in a white truck that was here for some time.
But again, the all-clear is given, but still they are keeping the northwest gate shut down, at least temporarily for collection, perhaps, of further evidence.
KAGAN: Kathleen Koch, at the White House.
Glad you have been set free, along with our crew.
Thank you.
And it was just minutes ago that the all-clear was sounded in Oakland, California. A suspicious package there had shut down the BART subway station in West Oakland. Passengers are being allowed back in and service is resuming from Oakland across the bay into San Francisco.
Within the past hour, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales announced indictments against the leaders of a Colombian rebel group. Federal authorities say the rebels -- rebels are narco-terrorists and their organization controls about 60 percent of the cocaine smuggled into the U.S. The indictment charges that the group which is known as FARC was funneling more than $25 billion worth of cocaine all around the world.
Prosecutors have dropped the final charges in a sex case involving a former Florida teacher and a 14-year-old student. A Marion County judge refused to accept a plea agreement for Debra LaFave yesterday. Prosecutors then dropped the charges. They say they wanted to protect the privacy of a teenage boy. LaFave still faces three years of house arrest in the same case for charges filed in another county. She says she's remorseful and undergoing treatment for bipolar disorder.
An offer some might not be able to refuse. General Motors will give long-time hourly workers up to $140,000 to leave. A source tells CNN the deal for workers with at least ten years of service who would agree to give up retirement health benefits, as well. Those with fewer than ten years service time will get $70,000 if they leave without health care coverage. GM says the buy-out affects 113,000 hourly workers.
(WEATHER REPORT)
KAGAN: Stay tuned for LIVE FROM. Kyra Phillips will talk with the president -- the one on TV, anyway. Her interview with actress Geena Davis today at 1:00 Eastern. I'm Daryn Kagan. YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International. I'm Jim Clancy.
VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. Here are some of the top stories we're following.
At least 12 people killed in scattered attacks across Iraq on Wednesday. Two police commanders were wounded in a roadside bomb explosion in southwestern Baghdad. Meanwhile, four Iraqi security force members were killed during an attack on a police station, and two pilgrims were killed and another 46 wounded in sectarian ambushes targeting Shias returning to Baghdad after observing a holy day in Karbala.
CLANCY: The Basque Separatist Group fighting for independent region in northern Spain has announced a permanent ceasefire. ETA says it wants to promote a democratic process. Spain's prime minister says the government's position is one of caution and prudence. ETA is blamed for more than 800 deaths during it 37 year struggle.
VERJEE: There are signs of fracture in France's ruling conservative government. The new job law has sparked huge protests. The law, pushed through by parliament by Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, makes it easier for employers to hire and fire younger workers. Now the country's interior minister is distancing himself from the de Villepin, suggesting that the law should undergo a six- month trial period.
CLANCY: Earlier this week, Iraq's former prime minister indicated hat he believes his country was in a state of civil war. But talking with CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, Ayad Allawi is now taking a step back from that assessment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AYAD ALLAWI, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF IRAQ: We are heading into more and more sectarian violence, and this is the natural grounds to breed civil war and to breed more violence and more terrorism.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And what are the key indicators that will worry you if they occur that the progression is towards full-blown civil war?
ALLAWI: We have to do is to build our security, our police, our intelligence, our sectarian program. We have to form a government of national unity to assist in this issue. We have to implement the laws which tackle the existence of militias.
ROBERTSON: One of the things holding progress from going forward is a formation of a new government. You've been opposed to the Mr. Jaafari, the current prime minister, nominated as the future prime minister. Why don't you drop your opposition to that so the country can form a unified government quickly, and can help solve some of Iraq's problems right now?
ALLAWI: Since then, what we said is to move Iraq forward, as we are in a transitional period, we need really a government of free and national unity, where all the Iraqis are represented. We need to have a stronger government, a government of consensus, a government of inclusivity, a government that can move things forward.
ROBERTSON: If you are in agreement with Mr. Jaafari, why is it taking so long to form this government?
ALLAWI: Because they have not decided who should be the prime minister, within the alliance.
ROBERTSON: The United Iraqi Alliance.
ALLAWI: Yes. They still have problems among themselves and...
ROBERTSON: But they've nominated Mr. Jaafari. ALLAWI: I think yes, but no, at the same time.
ROBERTSON: Yes but no? What does that mean?
ALLAWI: Well, yes in a way, and no in a way. I mean, if they have nominated him, then he should spearhead the formation of a government. We are saying that we need a government of national unity. They say that they agree.
ROBERTSON: But they're saying they want to do it by the constitution, which is the largest political bloc gets to choose the prime minister and the principal...
ALLAWI: They have chosen the prime minister. We don't object to this.
ROBERTSON: Mr. Jaafari.
ALLAWI: They have chosen. They have to choose. They say they have chosen Jaafari, so, they are united after Jaafari -- and Jaafari -- then they should form the government. There is no problem. We have not fighting on the numbers of, and who should be the prime minister. We agree, and this is in the principles of the constitution, that the prime minister is nominated by the larger group. And they are the largest. They've got the largest seats, numbers of seats. So, they should start forming the government.
ROBERTSON: So the problem is with the United Iraqi Alliance?
ALLAWI: I think so, yes.
ROBERTSON: But they would say -- Mr. Jaafari, I spoke with him last week -- said that was the nominee for prime minister, and the people supported him.
ALLAWI: Well, then why is he not forming the government? He should go ahead and form the government.
ROBERTSON: So the future of this country and the stability right now is in the hands of the United Iraqi Alliance and it's their fault that they're not forming a government?
ALLAWI: Yes, they haven't -- until -- as we speak, no move whatsoever on formation of the government. And even to me, they haven't decided on who should be the prime minister. Although they have picked -- they could not reach a consensus -- but they have elected Mr. Jaafari. But still, it's not -- he does not have the full thrust of the alliance behind him. And that's why there is this delay, in the formation of the government.
ROBERTSON: How worried are you, that as the United Iraqi Alliance takes its time in choosing what to do, that the violence continues and may escalate?
ALLAWI: We have to get a government that shares. We have to get above sectarianism. We have to get ministers, especially in important places, who do not believe in militias and sectarianism. We have to...
ROBERTSON: And you mean by that right now the current interior minister?
ALLAWI: Well, the ministers, whether it's interior, whether it's defense, whether it's any ministry that deals with security and have an effect on the security, they should not be sectarian, they should not believe in militias.
ROBERTSON: Are you concerned the current ministers in those positions do believe in militias?
ALLAWI: Well, of course, I mean, militias do exist in the streets of Iraq. This is a fact. This is a fact of life. We should not expect America after the government is formed. But every government is not formed on the basis of national unity. Then, I assure you, there will be more troubles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: He assures us there will be more troubles. That was CNN's Nic Robertson speaking with the former Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi.
It's important to note a couple of things here. Mr. Allawi, of course, had ambitions to be the next prime minister of Iraq. At the same time, he was formally in charge of all of the security, the intelligence information about the insurgency in Iraq, and all of his words bear close listening.
VERJEE: Coming up here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, facing death for what he believes.
CLANCY: An Afghan man could pay the ultimate price because of his religion.
And there's been a court ruling in a long-running case in Britain over what to wear to school. We're going to tell you about that, too.
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CLANCY: A serious case of religion and the law is throwing Afghanistan into the world spotlight. An Afghan man faces the death penalty on charges of rejecting Islam and converting to Christianity.
Now, despite growing international pressure, Afghanistan says it is going to leave this entire matter up to the judge. Abandoning Islam is illegal under the country's strict Islamic Sharia laws. Forty-one-year-old Abdul Rahman was arrested last month after being turned in by not strangers, but by his family. The trial is believed to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan, since the Taliban was ousted, anyway. The judge says he will rule on this case within two months.
The U.S. State Department is watching closely the developments in Afghanistan in this case. CNN's U.S. State Department producer Elise Labott producer joins us now.
Elise, what is the situation? What does the State Department have to say? What can it do?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN U.S. STATE DEPT. PROD.: Well, Jim, they're very concerned here. On one hand, they don't want to interfere in Afghan legal process. They want to show the Afghans are running their own country, and they want to respect the Islamic law, but at the same time, this really flies in the face of the democracy the U.S. is trying to install there and respect for human rights.
What they're trying to do is emphasize the provision of the constitution which calls for freedom of religion, saying that if that part of the Constitution is upheld, Mr. Rahman should be set free. Now this issue was raised with Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah When he was here this week for talks in Washington, and yesterday at a briefing that was supposed to be about these talks, about the U.S. strategic partnership with Afghanistan, the issue really was dominating the questioning. And the foreign minister said, you know, the government really isn't involved. This is a legal matter, but he understood it was a very sensitive issue.
And in fact the Afghan embassy here in Washington, he said, has gotten hundreds of calls and letters on the issue -- Jim.
CLANCY: At the same time we see this unfolding, a Christian issue, an election year in the U.S., Congress can't be letting this pass without standing up.
LABOTT: No, they're not. And in fact, Tom Lanton, the ranking Democrat of the House International Relations Committee who's really known as a staunch defender of human rights, wrote a very toughly worded letter to President Hamid Karzai, considering the fact that soldiers from many countries, of all religions, are dying in Afghanistan to help that country build a better future. And in fact he threatened consequences, saying that he was going call President Karzai to say that he hoped consequences wouldn't be necessary, any congressional action wouldn't be necessary to have this case overturned -- Jim.
CLANCY: All right, a lot of attention, a lot of pressure on the Afghan government right now.
Elise Labott, I want to thank you very much down there at the State Department for that update.
VERJEE: A Muslim schoolgirl in Britain is making what she wears to class a cause celeb, and London's high court has weighed in. Paula Hancocks brings us the latest in a legal battle over school dress.
Paula, what did they rule?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zain, they've ruled in favor of the school in this particular occasion. This is a legal battle that's been going on for three and a half years. It's been likened as well to that rawl (ph) that's still ongoing in the case in France over whether Muslim head scarves should be allowed to be worn in schools.
But this three-and-a-half year legal battle -- let me take you back to the beginning, September 2003: One Muslim schoolgirl decided, Shabina Bagun (ph), decided she wanted to wear the jibab. Now this is the full Muslim dress, which covers the whole body, except for the face and the hands. She wanted to wear that to school. But she was sent away, home from her school to change, because they said that was not allowed at that school. She protested. She stayed away from education for two years, lost two years of her education, and started legal proceedings against the school in Looten (ph), in north London.
Now, the legal battles have been ongoing for three-and-half years. Britain's highest court today, this Wednesday, has decided that the school was right. They've ruled in favor of the school, saying that the head teacher, who himself is a Muslim, had consulted imams, had consulted parents, to find out what the uniform should be, and that they haven't been discriminatory in any way or denied her right to education.
Now, in Britain itself, it's up to the school itself whether or not they are going to make rules on religious dresses. Not a national decision as it is in France and other countries across Europe -- Zain.
VERJEE: Given the wider public reaction to this -- and what is the wider Muslim population saying?
HANCOCKS: Well, the Muslim Council of Britain has said that it's, in principle, disappointing. They say that there are many schools across Britain who will allow the jibab, and they say that it's a shame that it had to be taken to the courts, that it had to get this far. It should be a local issue. It should be up to the schools themselves to decide what this religious dress should be, and they say that is a shame that it had to be taken to the courts and taken to the highest court for this to be sorted out -- Zain.
VERJEE: Paula Hancocks, reporting from London. Thanks, Paula.
Well, it's time to open up our in-box. We've been asking you for your thoughts about media coverage of Iraq.
CLANCY: Now, our question of the day was "Do you think that the media accurately portray what is happening in Iraq?"
And here's what some of you had say:
VERJEE: Duane from Michigan says, "None of us can answer this question unless we've been to Iraq and have seen the coverage. I'm guessing there are relatively few of us that fall into both of those categories."
CLANCY: A viewer writing from Baghdad says this, "Yes -- for Baghdad. But the media doesn't give enough perspective on what's happening in Iraq outside Baghdad. The farther from Baghdad, the better things are; this doesn't come out in news reports.
VERJEE: Denise from California: "Yes and no. Blood on the ground seems more newsworthy than building schools and roads. But it's important for people to understand the daily carnage and the loss of life."
YWT@cnn.com for your e-mails.
Still to come, what you may not know about the Brooklyn Bridge.
CLANCY: I didn't know it. A lot of people didn't know about it either, or at least until recently.
VERJEE: It has a chamber inside that goes back to the dark days of the Cold War. And that chamber is now open, and we'll show you what's in it.
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VERJEE: According to a group called Tearfund, a child dies every 14 seconds from dehydration. The disturbing statistic is part of a report marking World Water Day, to call attention to the international crisis.
Matt Moore (ph) reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATT MOORE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is easy to take water for granted when you have it. A new report says that worldwide we spend $100 billion a year on bottled water.
Tearfund, a leading relief charity, says it's shocking that governments aren't willing to stump up just a fraction of that amount to help tackle the deadly water crisis that's leaving more than a billion people around the world without safe water.
In Mozambique, Rosalina Aly and her children have no alternative but to use untreated water.
ROSALINA ALY, LICHINGA RESIDENT (through translator): I would like to have a clean source of water like a water pump, if the water is hygienic and like what I use here.
MOORE: Three quarters of Mozambique's population are without safe drinking water. In all, some 300 million Africans are suffering the same fate.
Somalia has suffered with a severe drought for the past two years.
CHIEF OF JAADIE VILLAGE (through translator): Our wells have dried up, and we have to drink water from the river. The quality of the water is bad. It's very dirty.
MOORE: Around the globe, it's estimated that more than one in three people are without basic sanitation. Governments are simply failing, Tearfund says, to tackle a health crisis which is claiming the lives of 6,000 children every day.
The U.N. Millennium Development Goal, to halve by 2015 the proportion of people without access to safe drinking water and basic sanitation, is they say in danger of becoming just a pipe dream.
Matt Moore, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: New York's Brooklyn Bridge means many things to many different people.
CLANCY: That's right. A 19th-century engineering marvel, it was. It's the span that links two distinct worlds: Manhattan and Brooklyn.
VERJEE: But did you know that it has a link to the Cold War?
Jeanne Moos brings us a history lesson.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the atomic bomb explodes, duck and cover.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than half a century later, duck and cover was dust covered. It was as if a fall- out shelter had fallen out of a time capsule.
(on camera): We are hot on the trail of the Cold War.
(voice-over): In a dark, dirty, arched chamber under the Brooklyn Bridge, workers stumbled on barrels of evaporated drinking water, paper blankets, medical tags for the injured.
(on camera): So they actually tie these to people's toes?
(voice-over): The water barrels were to serve double duty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be used as commodes.
MOOS (on camera): I was going to ask if there was a restroom.
(voice-over): No rest room, but plenty of crackers -- 350,000 crackers manufactured in October 1962.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is how it looked in October 1962.
MOOS: The Cuban Missile Crisis, the country was freaking out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What this thing is?
MOOS: So they filled bomb shelters with bandages.
(on camera): Put other side next to wound. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Duck and cover. Atta boy, Tony. That flash means act fast.
MOOS (voice-over): But Tony couldn't have acted fast enough. Historian Mike Wallace says evacuation plans and fallout shelters were propaganda designed to make Americans feel safe.
MIKE WALLACE, AUTHOR & HISTORIAN: It's a colossal placebo. You know, it's like this effort to convince us that it's just four or five days, and then you'll come up and you'll take a bath and wash off the radiation and, you know, you'll have a few crackers and you're home free.
MOOS: As for those crackers, what would they taste like after 44 years?
(on camera): Should I? This probably is going to get me faster than the radiation would have.
(voice-over): New York City's transportation commissioner concurred.
IRIS WEINSHALL, COMMISSIONER, NYC DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION: This is the worst tasting cracker I've ever tasted in my life.
MOOS: When it comes to 44-year-old crackers, duck and spit.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: Ah, the good old days. Duck and cover. There's more of YOUR WORLD TODAY ahead, including an update of that cease-fire call by Basque separatists in Spain.
VERJEE: Also ahead, we're going to look at one reason why it's so hard to bring terror suspects to justice: major legal blunders. Stay tuned. This is CNN.
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