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CNN Sunday Morning
Will Abdul Rahman Be Released?; 9/11 Tapes
Aired March 26, 2006 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Four years since the 9/11 tragedy, and now some families get a shocking letter from the city of New York about 9/11 tapes with voices of loved ones killed that day. And some of the families are outraged.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had one family member call me today, hysterical. She actually fainted, she opened it up in an elevator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Good morning, everyone, from the CNN Center in Atlanta. It is the 26th day of March. I'm Tony Harris.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Betty Nguyen. We want to thank you for starting your day with us. We'll have more on the 9/11 tapes in just a moment. But first, a look at some of the other stories that's making news right now.
You can expect federal investigators to be at the scene today of the latest Alabama church fire. Yesterday's blaze destroyed a church north of Birmingham. Now no one was injured. And you may recall, three college students face charges in nine other rural Alabama church fires last month.
There is word from the U.S. military this morning of a collision at sea. Military officials say that Caribous flagged merchant vessel and the U.S.S. McCampbell collided 30 miles southeast of the Iraqi coastline. Four people received minor injuries, including two U.S. sailors.
Well things got hairy at O'Hare Airport in Chicago with too many close calls in takeoffs and landings. Federal investigators are looking at two runway near collisions last week.
HARRIS: We have new developments this morning in the trial of the Afghan man who converted from Islam to Christianity, he's facing a possible death sentence. But now a western diplomat tells CNN Abdul Rahman will be released from custody at the end of the day. We'll have a live report.
Tempers flare at Canada's controversial seal hunt. Sealers took to the ice off the Atlantic yesterday to begin the spring time's largest seal slaughter in the world. The sealers confronted animal rights activists who called the hunt cruel. One protester said angry hunters threw seal guts at them.
Remember country hits like "Act Naturally" and "I've Got a Tiger by the Tail", Buck Owens, Bakersfield's sound turned country music on its ear in the 1960's, he's also appeared on "Hee Haw" for nearly 20 years. The country music legend died after a performance in Bakersfield, Owens was 76.
NGUYEN: We have something you just don't want to miss this morning. Pop star pink's serious message about the pressures of looking pretty for a price. Young girls everywhere are listening and parents listen to these kids, taking Pink's message to heart. She's speaking with many young ones this morning about the pressures that they face.
Now more on that top story just in to us this morning, the Afghan man threatened with death for converting to Christianity 16 years ago is expected to be released from custody today. That is according to a western diplomat who spoke with CNN. Journalist Tom Coghlan is with the "Daily Telegraph" he joins us by phone from Kabul with more information about this developing story. First of all, we want you to try to confirm for us, will Abdul Rahman be released later today?
THOMAS COGHLAN, JOURNALIST: Well, this is the question. And at the moment, the picture is quite confusing. Western diplomats who I've spoken to say yes, they do expect Abdul Rahman to be released by the end of today. Now, Afghan government officials are sending out more confusing signals. I've spoken to officials close to the president. Now they're saying they do expect Abdul Rahman to be released today, but other sources that I'm talking to basically, the Supreme Court and the Afghan judiciary, they're saying no, the case against him has been thrown out.
Now, that's the key issue. The case has been thrown out, but they're saying the case is being sent back to the attorney general of Afghanistan on technical grounds. There are technical reasons why the case is being thrown out and it may not be that he is released. They're not saying at the moment. But they're definitely saying the question remains are the reasons for the trial -- I'm sorry. The case may go ahead or it may not.
NGUYEN: There are a lot of questions here. One, we heard a little bit earlier that he may undergo an evaluation, this Abdul Rahman may undergo an evaluation. Now we're hearing that he may be released. What do you know about that? Is that part of the release?
COGHLAN: The question of his sanity has been one that has popped up throughout this case. The Afghan authorities have suggested or officials within the judiciary have suggested that he's not fit to stand trial. They said that he will be assessed in the coming days to see whether he's sane to see whether the trial can go ahead. If he's judged insane, the trial has to be stopped, and that's obviously good news for the Afghan government, which has been hugely embarrassed by this case, getting a lot of international publicity, a lot of criticism is directed at the Afghan government over this. So the question of his sanity is one that's unresolved. We don't know whether he's insane or not. And at the moment, the officials, the authorities haven't, as they say, established that.
NGUYEN: There's been a lot of pressure on many sides, including the U.S. Let's get to the heart of the matter here, the law in which is in question here. The Sharia law, the Islamic law that says if you turn your back on Islam, that can be punished by death. So, if Abdul Rahman is released, does that turn the law on its head?
COGHLAN: Well, the problem that Afghan authorities face is that they have a constitution which is full of contradictions. On the one hand, the constitution places Islamic law at the very center, the very heart of the Afghan constitution and says that Islamic law is the highest rule of law in the land. At the same time, the Afghan government, in its constitution, is a bigotry to the universal declaration on human rights. Now that allows within its code any man or woman to change their religion, that makes it a legal requirement, of any signatory nation that they allow their citizens to change their religion.
Obviously that's a huge contradiction within the constitution. There are a number of others. There are (inaudible) allowing the freedom of religion in the constitution, freedom of speech, equality of the sexes. All of those things, if you read Sharia law, they give very strict interpretation of it, all of those things are contradicted by Sharia law, which does not allow explicitly those things. So, it's a hugely confusing picture for the Afghan nation and for outside observers.
NGUYEN: Tom Coghlan with the "Daily Telegraph" trying to sort it out for us as we learn that maybe Abdul Rahman could be released later today, he is the Afghan Muslim who has converted to Christianity and could be facing the death penalty. But as we hear, he may be released a little bit later today. We're going to stay on top of this story and bring you the latest.
HARRIS: If you're just tuning in this morning, there's been an unsettling development in the aftermath of 9/11. New York City has delivered some distressing news about lost loved ones to their families and hit some raw nerves in the process.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: More than four years after the fact, families of some victims of 9/11 are finding out for the first time that their loved one's voices are in the city's 911 system, as if that were not shocking enough, the victims' families must also decide whether they want the public to hear what may have been their loved ones' dying words.
The startling notification arrived Friday in what some family members call a terse form letter from the city, telling them their loved one's voice had been identified in the 911 system. The letter also informed them of their rights regarding the recording's public release in the form of a CD. For some relatives, the shock was too much.
BILL DOYLE, SON DIED ON 9/11: I had one family member call me today, hysterical. She actually fainted. She opened it up in an elevator. She couldn't believe it. Because she never heard from her husband that morning. But apparently he called 911.
HARRIS: The city has apologized for upsetting the families. A statement from the mayor's office issued Saturday night reads in part, "The City's plan was to advise World Trade Center support organizations on Friday by e-mail of the imminent release of the calls and of the letters that were going to the families. Unfortunately, because of a miscommunication, the e-mails did not go out as planned and instead went out this evening. We sincerely regret the delay."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: This week, New York City will release a CD of the 911 calls, the result of a long court battle. By law, only the dispatcher's voices can be made public unless a family gives consent for a loved one's voice to be heard as well.
NGUYEN: We are hoping to get you talking about celebrity pressures on kids this morning. Take a look.
Pop star Pink's new video has kids talking, she's getting them to laugh at the current celebrity ideal that put looks way ahead of brains. So, that leads us to our e-mail question today, how influential are today's music videos? Do they send a strong message? What is that message? E-mail us weekends@cnn.com. Well pop star Pink's new video it's all the rage among young girls, talking about the pressures to be pretty, to be thin, to be perfect. But it all comes at a price, we're going to talk with some pre-teens who are speaking out on the issue, actually there a few teenagers.
HARRIS: There they are.
NGUYEN: Lovely ladies, we'll be talking with them in about 15 minutes from now, you want to stick around for that.
HARRIS: What do you do if you're in the middle, Betty? Here's the question this morning, if you're in the middle of a NASCAR race, high speeds, 100 plus miles per hour.
NGUYEN: Zoom, zoom.
HARRIS: And it starts snowing.
NGUYEN: What? No. Really?
HARRIS: Take a look at this. If you're like these --
NGUYEN: Look at that. You throw snowballs.
HARRIS: Then you turn it into a snow man. You have a snowball fight. Basically, you start acting like kids. Reynolds Wolf, we would be doing the same thing.
NGUYEN: We would be doing exactly that. REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: What is the big deal? All you have to do is just try driving on the Dan Ryan Expressway in Chicago. It's the same thing, you're driving on I-96 in Detroit, it can get rough here, to say the least. Hey folks, we've got more snow in store for portions of the Rockies. And light rain fall forming in the northeast. And plenty of sunshine in Miami, take a look at this beautiful shot that we have. Looks pretty good there. Mix of sunshine, few wispy clouds. But what they need is rain and they're not going to get it through the weekend and possibly into next week. Your complete forecast coming up right here on CNN.
NGUYEN: A move to crack down on illegal immigration sets off demonstrations from North Carolina all the way to California. In Charlotte, protest leaders said Americans take the work of immigrants for granted. In Denver, more than 50,000 people protested a move to deny government services to illegal immigrants. And in Sacramento, a march honoring the late Cesar Chavez included a rally against tougher immigration laws, but the biggest demonstration yesterday was in Los Angeles. The story now from CNN's Kareen Wynter.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Half a million strong with equally powerful voices. The streets of Los Angeles looked like a sea of humanity. Protesters pounded the pavement in opposition to legislative action against illegal immigrants, said to be 11 million in the United States. Next week, the U.S. Senate will consider a bill that's already cleared the house, one that makes it a felony to be an undocumented worker and penalizes those who help them.
JAIME PARDO, PROTESTER: Immigrant families don't come here to take what doesn't belong to them, we come here to work and to prosper more than anything.
NOALLE TAMAYA, PROTESTER: All the parents who brought their children here for a better life, all the people who want here an education, all the people who work here, and they're all going to be sent back? We have a lot to do for this country and it's not fair.
WYNTER: Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa sharpened the fight with a few strong words for Washington lawmakers on more lenient reforms.
MAYOR ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA, LOS ANGELES: There are no illegals here today. The only thing illegal is a proposal that would demonize and criminalize 11 million people.
WYNTER: President Bush says while the government must enforce border security, there are broader proposals on the table. A guest worker program that requires immigrants to register with the government for temporary employment. The Minuteman Project, a self- appointed border watchdog group says it supports immigration only if it's legal.
STEVE EICHLER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MINUTEMAN PROJECT: We're one of the most liberal immigration nations in the world, millions and millions of people come here and they think that they can skirt around the law.
WYNTER: No short cuts, just a shot at the American dream. That's the message protesters say they're sending to Washington. Kareen Wynter, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: President Bush thinks some undocumented workers should be allowed to stay in the U.S. for a while, but he may have trouble selling that idea when the senate takes up the immigration debate this week. CNN's Kathleen Koch joins us live from The White House with more. Kathleen, good morning.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony. This so- called temporary worker program was a controversial idea when President Bush first proposed it more than two years ago and he's finding that selling it now to an increasingly rebellious congress is not easy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: As demonstrators protest in the streets, President Bush is walking a political tight rope, trying to get his immigration reform ideas passed by the senate. Many business leaders and Hispanics like Mr. Bush's plan to allow foreigners in the U.S. for a limited time to do jobs they claim Americans don't want. But will conservatives of his own party fear the program will jeopardize security and give a short cut to citizenship?
EICHLER: Millions of people come here, and they think that they can skirt around the law, they don't have to take medicals, they don't have to apply for citizenship, they don't have to learn a little bit of English. And I think that's the issue.
KOCH: In his weekly radio address, Mr. Bush defended his plan, insisting that a permanent amnesty for illegals already in the country would be unfair and is not part of his proposal.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It would allow those who break the law to jump ahead of people who play by the rules and wait in the citizenship line. Amnesty would also be unwise because it would encourage waves of illegal immigration, increase pressure on the border and make it more difficult for law enforcement to focus on those who mean us harm.
KOCH: But most senators are focused on reelection, they face constituent concerns that millions of undocumented workers put a strain on schools, hospitals and other scarce local resources. So debate is scheduled to begin Tuesday on measure 2 among other things, make it a felony to be in the U.S. illegally and impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants.
CHRISTINE NEUMAN-ORTIZ, VOCES DE LA FRONTERA: There is a new form of racism that is being promoted in this country at the highest levels. And that is not welcoming. It is about a new kind of racism with citizen versus immigrant and the reality is that we all can agree that this immigration system is broken.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: Despite the president's balancing act, fixing the immigration system in an election year may prove to be impossible. The house has already passed its own border security bill, and it refused to include a temporary worker provision. Of course, the president's sagging poll numbers, Tony, the lowest of his presidency, aren't helping either.
HARRIS: Kathleen Koch for us at The White House this morning. Kathleen thank you.
KOCH: You bet.
HARRIS: Still ahead, just want this all to come together this segment.
NGUYEN: It's going to be fine. It's good information is what it is.
HARRIS: Important stuff, huh?
NGUYEN: Yes.
HARRIS: Still ahead, bulimia, sex, drugs, all very touchy subjects for American teens these days.
NGUYEN: And today, we have some young people in studio.
HARRIS: There they are.
NGUYEN: There are some ladies, we're going to be speaking with some young men as well, about this pressure. Stay with us right here on CNN as we talk serious business and we get real. Stay with us.
HARRIS: A little sports, two of the NCAA final four teams, decided, UCLA and LSU are in. But it took the Bayou Bengals overtime to do it. LSU ousted Betty's Longhorns 70-60 right here in Atlanta. The tigers hadn't been to the final four since, I guess, Shaq's days, maybe '86?
WOLF: I think John Redman was one of the guards then. '86 is before Shaq's time. Dale Brown was head coach at that point.
NGUYEN: Reynolds used to do sports, by the way.
WOLF: I'm a freak.
HARRIS: And UCLA knocked off Memphis 50-45 in Oakland, this is (inaudible). It was the lowest scoring regional final in the shot clock era.
NGUYEN: What were they doing during the game?
HARRIS: Missing a lot of shots is what they were doing. NGUYEN: Apparently.
HARRIS: The Bruins first trip to the final four in 11 years. All right, to our brackets, do we have to do this again because we know --
WOLF: Bring it on, roll the ugliness.
NGUYEN: Yes, ugliness, right, you're like second place on the bracket.
WOLF: But see I can't go any higher, I can't go any higher. I mean it's done for me.
NGUYEN: That's the bottom half, you don't want to see this.
HARRIS: This is how we're doing and we're not doing particularly well. Deidre our wonderful director is the biggest loser in that bracket.
NGUYEN: Oh yes, Dee is loser.
HARRIS: Katie Baratone again and she's been a leader for the last two weeks here.
NGUYEN: One of our producers.
WOLF: It's amazing.
HARRIS: She's a lock at this point, she can't be overtaken.
NGUYEN: And here's the thing, she doesn't know much about basketball, she just kind of picked whatever team looked good on the day.
HARRIS: You posted well.
WOLF: I'm feeling the love. I feel fine about it. But I actually went to the game yesterday, the Texas, LSU game. That was like watching two guys with clubs just knocking each other over the head. It was a brutal game. They didn't call any fouls.
NGUYEN: It really was brutal, but you know big baby, can you say anymore about that guy?
HARRIS: He's a folk hero. Watch. He'll be on "Live From" this week.
WOLF: Yes. A big man with a big heart. Obviously. You know you got a few more games left, I mean it'll be very interesting to see what happens to them.
NGUYEN: You're rooting for LSU. I am. I want to see them go on.
WOLF: SEC is what I'm going to go for, since Duke is out, I'm definitely going to go for them. Great weather in many places around the country. Some places, not so great. We're going to tackle all that for you. One place that is desperately in need of rainfall would be Florida. Miami, we have a high that's going to go up all the way into the upper 60s. Right now it's 60 degrees as we speak, it's 54 in Orlando. There is a great shot that we have from Miami. It's a beautiful, beautiful time out there all the way to the Keys, out near Molasses Reef and even to Key West it's going to be beautiful. In fact, all the way up you go, it is going to be great all the way to Ponta Vedra and beyond.
Hey folks, by the way, you sports watchers out there, you NASCAR fans, we had snow up there at the big race yesterday. In fact, we have some video of that for you. We're talking about, again, in Bristol, Tennessee, this is something you don't see every single day. You know you just don't associate snow with the whole NASCAR kind of thing. But as I mentioned, if you want to know what it's like driving in snow with speeds well over 100 miles an hour, try one winter in Detroit. I'm telling you. My wife's family is from Detroit. I love them very much and those folks, believe it or not, they know how to drive and they drive fast up there.
Hey folks, here's what we have around the rest of the nation. It is going to be a beautiful morning in many places in the southeast. They need some rain, as I mentioned, but again that's going to come maybe later next week for places like Florida, where temperatures in Florida are going to rise, say, into the 60s and 70s for many locations today. In fact, we're expecting for Orlando, Florida, try a high temperature warming up to about 68 degrees. This area of high pressure you see that is just over parts of Mississippi and into Louisiana, we're going to be seeing that limit the rainfall in that part of the world. We're not expecting much in terms of precipitation anywhere east of Mississippi until you get up to New England. When you get to New England there's going to be a chance of some scattered showers through upstate New York and higher elevations into the Berkshires, there's going to be the potential of getting some snow fall, but very light precipitation, one to three inches of snowfall possible.
Into the Rockies though, it's going to be a different story. Could see up near Salt Lake City anywhere from eight inches of snowfall up to 15" of snowfall in the high elevations. That's a quick check on your forecast around the nation, let's send it back to you at the news desk.
NGUYEN: Well you know some spring breakers, they're loving that snow, it's that time of year, hit the slopes.
HARRIS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
NGUYEN: Speaking of the young, pop star Pink, well she was stirring up a hornets nest.
HARRIS: Wow, her new video, have you seen it? It is all the rage among young girls, it focuses on the pressures to be pretty at a price.
NGUYEN: We're going to talk with some pre-teens.
HARRIS: Look at that get-up.
NGUYEN: That's pretty in some aspects. Pre-teens though are here in the house at CNN. They're going to be talking about a lot of the pressure and some of the issues that are dealt with in Pink's video. Of course, they want to turn around and get a look at Pink. They want to see that dress. That's what we're talking about, there they go, they fell into the trap, ladies. You fell into the trap.
HARRIS: And you know the fellows have a dog in his hunt, so to speak. The fellows have something to say. We'll hear from them on the other side of the break as "CNN Sunday Morning" continues.
And good morning, everyone. Now in the news, a maritime fender bender in the Arabian Gulf. The U.S. Navy destroyer USS McCampbell seen in this file photo and a merchant vessel collided off the Iraqi coast, according to the military public affairs office. Two sailors and two merchant seamen were hurt, both ships were damaged but are deemed sea worthy.
Families of some victims of 9/11 have learned their loved ones called 911 before they died. New York City sent letters to 24 families on Friday saying they victims' voices had been identified on 911 recordings and will be made available to the families. Whether those voices are made public is up to the families.
A sad Sunday for some parishioners in Alabama, their church north of Birmingham burned to the ground yesterday. Federal agents are looking into the suspicious blaze. There were 10 church fires in rural Alabama last month, three college students face charges in connection with nine of those fires.
NGUYEN: Yeah, you see the message. Every now and then, something comes along in the popular culture that commands our attention and we're going to be talking about that today with some teenagers, both female and male. Were going to get some reaction to all of this. I want to welcome you back, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen. Hi, Tony.
HARRIS: Oh, Hi. Hi.
NGUYEN: Are you there?
HARRIS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, there we go. Hi, everyone. A new music video has kids talking about the downside of celebrity influence -- Betty.
NGUYEN: It sure does. Tony, have you seen the new Pink video?
HARRIS: I have to say, I hadn't seen it until this morning.
NGUYEN: Well, you're going to see it once again.
HARRIS: OK. NGUYEN: Because it's a message and that's one that we're going to be talking about today. And The question is, you know, about the pressure of society today. What kind of affect is it having on teens? We're going to be talk about that message. It's a serious discussion about a pop star video. We called in the kids, though, to get things going on this conversation. Before we talk to them, let's take a look at the video in question.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN (voice-over): That's right. It's called "Stupid Girls," but don't let the title fool you. Pink, the punky pop girl making a serious point. It's got a beat and little girls are listening. I don't want to be a stupid girl. With this video and song, Pink does what many moms, teachers and experts can't, she's getting out a message girls need to hear, respect yourself.
What's Pink preaching? It's the images in the media, that thin is necessary and pretty a must. Here are some hard facts about little girls and their looks. In a widely published 10 year study of women with eating disorders, one in three say the problem began between the ages of 11 and 15. One out of every 10 say their eating disorder began in elementary school.
And those picture perfect celebrities, yes, Pink's poking fun, but she's also expressing concern about a growing trend of kids seeking plastic surgery. The numbers tell the story. In the six years from 1997 to 2003, the number of kids surgically altering their looks jumped from 60,000 to 225,000.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Can you believe that? Check out those numbers. We're talking about pop music bad girl Pink this morning and really, the reality of the situation out there. Her new video is "Stupid Girls" and we want you to be warned that it's not nice. She's mocking celebrity lifestyles, the lifestyles of the rich and the famous and the young from plastic surgery to bulimia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my god you guys, I totally had more than 300 calories today. That is not sexy, no.
Oh, good one. Feel better?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Yeah, not putting a nice spin on it. She's telling it like it is. And I want to spend some time this morning talking about the power of Pink's message. We often talk with experts and this morning, though, changing that plan. We're going to be listening to the kids themselves, the people who are really experiencing this, and the pressures of it as they're growing up. Our youngest, just 10 years old, the oldest, 15. We have Sarah, Rachel, Aeli, Hannah. Hi there Hannah. Nara (ph) and Maya (ph). Ladies, welcome. Thanks for being here this morning. Well, you saw the video. I heard many of you actually singing the video, doing your little bee-bopping over here. So, what does the message say to you? Does it speak to you? What does it say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like be yourself and don't try to just fit in -- fit in and don't just act popular. Don't dress so you can just be popular...
NGUYEN: But that's hard, isn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
NGUYEN: Because when you go to school, you want to make friends, you also want the boys to like you too. Talk to me a little bit about that pressure. What kind of pressure are you facing in school to be thin, to be pretty, to be popular.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like the pressure at school is really big pressure, you know because you want to be cool, you want people to like you, and if -- like if you're not liked then you feel like left out and you don't -- you want to fit in. But it's hard to fit in when you're not acting like yourself.
NGUYEN: Right. And so in order to act like yourself, you just got to be real with it and you can't kind of go into these molds we're seeing on television. But it's easier said than done, isn't it? Because a lot of you -- gosh, one of you's only just 10 years old, the oldest here is 15. Have you seen what the pressure can do? Have you heard people your age talk about things that we saw in that little piece about plastic surgery? We saw it's jumped tremendously. Have you seen girls talk about plastic surgery? You're shaking your head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, oh, yeah. A lot of friends who, for high school, when they graduate are asking for breast implants or...
NGUYEN: You're kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or liposuction. I promise you. Girls my age are right now saying, OK, oh my god, I already asked my dad, he said it was OK, I'm going to get breast implants for my graduation present instead of a car.
NGUYEN: Yeah, I remember the day when you graduated you went to Europe, maybe got a car, you got something like that. But breast implants?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Implants.
NGUYEN: Oh, my goodness. Now, OK, but let's move over to another thing, another serious issue as well, and that's eating disorders. That's something we saw in the video. You're very young and that image sticks with you when you watch TV and you see it. You want to be like it, because that, quote, unquote, is "cool." So, do you know girls your age that are already dealing with eating disorders? Do any of you know a girl or maybe even yourself? Do you know somebody?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, when I went to a summer camp a few years ago, there a girl who was -- she was really small and she thought that eating would make her big and fat, so after she would eat, she would go to the bathroom, she would throw up and she would just come out. It was just really scary for me and my friends. We kept...
NGUYEN: And when you looked at her, you didn't see what she saw, did you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't see it. She was beautiful as she was. She didn't need to throw up at all.
NGUYEN: My goodness. So, how do you deal with that? Now -- I mean, we all know what's right from what's wrong. But it's hard for it to play out in reality. So, what do you do to stay grounded, to make sure that you don't buy into this, that you're listening to the messages that are being sent in this video? What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Probably just, you know, talk -- I talk to my mom a lot about a lot of things and she tells me everything. It's just a fad, in five years, it's not really going to even matter how you looked when you were in the seventh and eighth grade and...
NGUYEN: Because you're going to grow. You're changing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right, exactly. Exactly. So, I mean, you're not going to look -- the age we are now, we're not going to look like that when we're 25. So, I mean, it's -- we're going to look a lot different, so, you know, people stuffing their bras and...
NGUYEN: Take your time, yeah, to grow up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. It's like, play outside still.
NGUYEN: Enjoy being a kid, because, you know what? You're never going to be at this stage ever again, so soak it up. Trust me, when you get my age, you're going to wish you had the skin you have now, you're going to wish it was all tight and you look as great as you do. So, with that being said, as you go through school and you grow and you start looking at some boy, he's looking kind of cute to you and you're wanting to start up those relationships, do you feel like you can stand your ground as an intelligent young woman or do you feel like you've got to buy into what people are watching on TV and kind of look like that so boys like you? Are boys buying into it at your school? Is that what they like? Let me come to you, because you haven't been able to speak just yet. They are?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. I think boys think it's like hot when girls act dumb, but I think it's stupid for people to not act like themselves and dumb themselves down to impress someone. I think they should just be themselves.
NGUYEN: Is it just acting dumb or do they like the look, do they like the thin is in, the beautiful, the perfect skin? You know, you've got it all? They're buying into that too?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I read once that stupid girls attract stupid boys. So, if you act stupid to attract boys, you're not going to attract the smart ones, you're going to tract the ones who are stupid.
NGUYEN: That's a good message. Who told you that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I read it somewhere.
NGUYEN: You read it. Well, make sure people keep telling you that, that you keep reading things like that, because that's very important. So in all of this, when you look at songs like this and Pink tries to make it cool to be you, to be intelligent, to go after -- if you like soccer, play soccer. If you like athletics, do that. Don't stop it just because of you want to fall into this mold that we're seeing on television and in the media. So, when you see that, does it help you at school? Does it help make it easier, just to be you when these messages are out there? Does it really -- does a music video really make that much of a difference?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It does.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If enough people see it.
NGUYEN: If what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If enough people see it.
NGUYEN: What about the boys? Does it make a difference to the boys, do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
NGUYEN: Yeah?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They want to have, you know, the nice, buff bodies, they want to have, you know, the nice hair...
NGUYEN: So it works on the other end as well?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. Both boys and girls. It's mostly girls , but it also works for boys too.
NGUYEN: I'm hearing you. So, with that said, we're going to talk to the boys now, we're going to put them in the hot seat and see what they think -- Tony.
HARRIS: Yeah.
NGUYEN: Is it true it true. I mean, hey, you grew up at some point, right?
HARRIS: No. I'm still 12. NGUYEN: Well yeah, that's true. That aside, though, I mean, what are boys saying these days?
HARRIS: Well let me tell you something. We got a couple of guys here who are going to lay it out for us all. Dillon, put your hand up, Dillon. Parker and Drew, we're going to talk about it right after the break. You're watching CNN SUNDAY MORNING. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK, we're talking this morning about the music video "Stupid Girls," it's by the pop star, Pink. The video has young girls talking about how celebrities influence the way they dress and act. You hear Pink ask at one point in the song maybe if I act like that, well, the guys will call me back. We want to know what the guys think about all of that. I'm joined now by three eighth grade boys. Parker, throw your hand up. Drew, throw your hand up. Dillon. Hey, so guys, all right. Here is my question. If you're focused, if you're a girl, young girl, and focused more on your body than your brains, in your estimatation, if the girl is focused more on body than brains, is she, as Pink suggests a stupid girl? Dillon, take it.
DILLON CARREAU, 8TH GRADER: No, I don't think just because they want to look good doesn't mean they're stupid. They can still be smart without...
HARRIS: Right, right.
CARREAU: ...looking good.
HARRIS: Right. Parker, what do you think?
PARKER MINCEY, 8TH GRADER: Well, I don't think they're stupid because a lot of the pretty girls at our school, they're all really smart and they have advanced classes and they want to, like, go on and be something better than like an actress or something.
HARRIS: Yeah but, Drew, what do you think? You know what this video is saying, that girls have become almost obsessed with this notion of looking good following in the footsteps of celebrities like Paris Hilton, like Jessica Simpson. What do you think? If you are more focused on your body than your mind, are you a stupid girl?
DREW, 8TH GRADER: Well, yeah, I think they kind of are, because I mean, you've got to -- even now, you got to care about your body, but then you also got to think about your brain, like what you do.
HARRIS: Right, right, right. Hey, Parker, you have a girlfriend?
MINCEY: I do.
HARRIS: How old are you?
MINCEY: Fourteen.
HARRIS: You're 14 years old?
MINCEY: Yes.
HARRIS: You know, I'm a father with a girl. What are you doing with a girlfriend at 14 years old? I'm scolding him, aren't I? I'm scolding him on national television. I'll leave that alone for now. You like one another and, what, you go to movies together, and parents are chaperones and that sort of thing, right?
MINCEY: Yes. And we hang out with each other at each other's houses.
HARRIS: OK, Dillon, let me ask you a question here. Have you experienced a situation -- and guys, I want you all to chime in on this. Have you experience a situation where you're -- you've got a girl, who is a friend, who's your best buddy one day and then at some point, maybe the next day, she comes in and she's looking like something out of one of these videos. Has that ever happened to you?
CARREAU: Actually, it hasn't.
HARRIS: Who's experienced that? Has anyone here?
MINCEY: I have.
HARRIS: Tell me about it.
MINCEY: I've known a girl since I was like probably 2-1/2, since I've moved to Georgia and she used to be like an ugly duckling, I guess you could say, and kind of overnight it seemed like sixth -- in the middle of sixth grade , seventh grade she started to, like, look a lot more like what we think are like the "hot girls" or whatever.
HARRIS: Right, right. And did that change the way you communicated with her, the way you interacted with her?
MINCEY: It didn't change the way, like, we talked or anything. It, like, nothing was changed.
HARRIS: Were you uncomfortable at all?
MINCEY: No, not at all.
HARRIS: Hey Drew, is there pressure among you guys -- how old are you?
DREW: Fourteen.
HARRIS: You're 14?
DREW: Yeah.
HARRIS: Is there pressure for guys of your age to be seen with the, the quote, unquote, "hot girl?"
DREW: I mean, not really. Cause -- I don't know. HARRIS: You don't feel that at all?
DREW: Uh-uh.
HARRIS: OK, Parker, what about you? Do you feel it?
MINCEY: Well, there's a little bit of pressure, but like because sometimes if you -- if somebody's going out with a girl and somebody else doesn't think she's as attractive as another girl, they'll be like, ha ha, your girlfriend's ugly or whatever. And, but there's a little bit of pressure to go out with a, like my girlfriend's more attractive than your girlfriend, kind of thing.
HARRIS: Right, there is that?
MINCEY : Not a lot of bunch, but there's a little bit.
HARRIS: Dillon, you ever feel a pressure to date the so-called "hot girl?"
CARREAU: Yeah. People are really like, ooh, I don't have a girlfriend yet, or If you like somebody that's not, you know, the best looking, but like them for their personality, a lot of times people will be like, ooh, you don't like the hot girl, you're weird, or things like that.
HARRIS: Right, right, right. I have to ask you, Dillon, you've seen the video, right?
CARREAU: Yeah.
HARRIS: You've seen it? The whole Pink video. You've seen it all, not just little snippets or have you seen the whole thing?
CARREAU: I've seen most of it, I think.
HARRIS: Does she have a point there?
CARREAU: Well, yeah, I think that she has a point, like don't only think about what you look like. It's just...
HARRIS: Work on the as well, the whole person?
CARREAU: Yeah. Try to act like you're not at -- up like -- I'm better than you. Try to be like a nice person. Try to be smarter, not just act like a really dumb person, try to act attractive.
HARRIS: Parker, plastic surgery, that's something she talks about in this video. Ooh, let me ask you it a different way. Let me ask it a different way. What do you think about plastic surgery for boys?
MINCEY: I haven't really -- I mean...
HARRIS: Of course you haven't. So, think about it now. MINCEY: There's not like -- one of the girls said that one of her friends wanted breast implants for their graduation present. There's no guys that are like, oh, I want my cheeks done for my -- or my chin done for my graduation present. There's not really much talk about that. But I know that there is a lot of it going on in the media and stuff like the show "Nip/Tuck."
HARRIS: Right. What are you doing watching that show?
MINCEY: Well, my parents watch it. I don't watch it.
HARRIS: What, are you in the room somewhere, hiding...
MINCEY: No, no.
HARRIS: Oh you just know about it.
MINCEY: I just know about it from commercials and stuff.
HARRIS: OK. Hey Drew, what do you think about plastic surgery? Do you think it's OK for young girls.
DREW: Well, I mean, I don't think they should get it as teenagers because, I mean, they're still growing and I just don't like the fact that it looks fake.
HARRIS: Right. Right.
DREW: I like them natural.
HARRIS: You like them natural? You player, you. OK. And, Dillon, what are your thoughts? You know that for some girls there's a sense that there is pressure, to the extent of sort of changing the way girls look through surgery.
CARREAU: Yeah. Like Drew said, it's not right to do it at a young age, when you're still growing, you're maturing. You're not fully ready for that. Now, maybe like, maybe in your mid 20s, if you don't look as good, like you can maybe use your own money for it, not make your parents -- be like, oh, I need to look better for school because there's pressure on me, just -- like brush it off your shoulder.
HARRIS: Brush it off your shoulder?
CARREAU: Yeah, just deal with it.
HARRIS: OK, OK. At just at the risk of sounding a little (INAUDIBLE) how about the Jesse McCartney song, that's a popular song among the young people, right? It's called "Beautiful Soul." Just a couple lines from it, "I don't need another pretty face. I want you and your beautiful soul." Maybe I'm just sending this out to my daughter. "I know you are something special. I want you and your beautiful soul." Maybe that's the note perhaps we should leave it on this morning. What do you think, Betty?
NGUYEN: Hey, let me just be honest with you, Tony.
HARRIS: Yes.
NGUYEN: When we heard the breast comment, you should have seen the girls over here.
HARRIS: Well, I heard them.
NGUYEN: They lost it. They completely lost it. And this whole talk about oh, there's no pressure to date a hot girl, ladies, no. They are not buying it. They're not buying a bit of that. So, but...
HARRIS: So, we got a Mars and Venus moment right here?
NGUYEN: Yeah, I think we have several of those, because they were chiming in throughout the entire conversation saying, uh-uh. They, no, no, don't let them get away with that. But, you know, the reality is, at least we're talking about it. Because, these are important issues, there are a lot of pressures on young girls, beautiful young girls, nothing wrong with them because of what they see in TV, a lot of them feel like they need to change, they need to be this perfect little skin -- beautiful skin, thin-looking thing and it's -- you know, one of the statistics shows one out of 10 women has an eating disorder. They say it started in elementary school and that, to me, is just really -- it doesn't need to be in existence. It sounds crazy to us as adults, but you know how it was being a young kid. I mean, the pressures of everything. You just wanted to be perfect. You wanted to be popular, you wanted to fit in.
HARRIS: And further with that statistic, one in three of those young people say that eating disorder, that it actually started in middle school, just to further the thought here, not to belabor it, just to further the though, experts agree middle school kids, OK, middle school kids that we're talking about here, take their cues from celebrity teens.
NGUYEN: Yep.
HARRIS: So, we just hope that this whole segment sort of provides parents and kids an opening, a way to start a conversation about some of these grown-up pressures that are felt by teens. We'll take a break and we'll come back with more of CNN SUNDAY MORNING right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, let's go to Howard Kurtz in Washington to see what is ahead on CNN "Reliable Sources."
Hi there Howard.
HOWARD KURTZ, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Good morning, Betty.
Coming up: Is the press corps turning against the war in Iraq or the White House playing the blame game with the media? We'll talk to Lara Logan, chief foreign correspond for CBS News in Baghdad. Plus, reporters at the White House and Pentagon weigh in. And commentators Bill Bennett and Bill Press on whether the media is too negative about the war. Also, the top political blogger, DailyKos, on how the internet can affect elections.
And women in trouble, how some run away and some run for the cameras. It's all ahead on "RELIABLE SOURCES."
NGUYEN: We'll be watching. Thank you, Howard.
KURTZ: Thank you.
HARRIS: And upstairs now to Reynolds Wolf for another check on the weather.
Reynolds, good morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HARRIS: OK. Reynolds. "Reliable Source" is next, followed by "Late Edition," and "On the Story." Don't go anywhere.
NGUYEN: Don't go anywhere. And Fredricka Whitfield will be with you all morning and afternoon with live news updates. Have a wonderful day.
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