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American Morning

Heated Debates Surround Proposed Immigration Reform; Closing Arguments in Moussaoui

Aired March 29, 2006 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you.
I'm Miles O'Brien.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Carol Costello in for Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Immigration reform a topic of contentious debate north of the border, the focus of a summit to the south.

COSTELLO: Closing arguments today in the Zacarias Moussaoui trial. Then the jury decides on whether he should get the death penalty.

O'BRIEN: A wayward warlord now under lock and key. Former Liberian President Charles Taylor nabbed at the border.

COSTELLO: Duke University's lacrosse team under suspension this morning. The top ranked team paying the price for an off campus party.

O'BRIEN: And you don't need to fly your Lear jet to see a total eclipse of the sun. We have it for you right here on this AMERICAN MORNING.

President Bush to head south today for talks on immigration, borders and trade. But will a Senate bill on immigration go south, too?

On the heels of some very large, very noisy demonstrations across the country, this hot topic is on the front burner on Capitol Hill today.

Live now to CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry.

At the White House they're trying to find some middle ground somehow -- Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

Good morning again, Miles.

And immigration reform will also be on the front burner at this summit down in Cancun. President Bush, late this afternoon, in trilateral talks with Mexican President Fox, as well as the new Canadian prime minister, Harper. This is a contentious issue that's splitting the Republican Party right down the middle. A vocal bloc of Republicans saying they want to see this reform focus solely on border security, tightening U.S. borders, while the president is joining with other Republicans and some Democrats and saying he wants a more comprehensive approach. He wants to tighten the borders, but he also wants to deal -- some sort of guest worker program to deal with the 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants already here in the United States.

Critics say what the president really wants is amnesty for those illegal immigrants.

He denied that charge yesterday in an exclusive interview with CNN en Espanol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fundamental issue, by the way, it seemed like to me, on the guest worker plan, is does somebody getting to the head of the line when it comes to citizenship? And my answer is no. They ought to -- they ought to get in line, but they don't get to get to the head of the line. And that's where some of the tension about the debate is taking place right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: When asked if the president will veto the immigration bill if the final product does not include this guest worker program, White House Spokesman Scott McClellan says it's too early in the process to comment. But you can bet they're watching that U.S. Senate debate very closely -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, let's talk about where this all plays out.

The president can't find a way to navigate through this and get some kind of compromise. It raises the specter of yet another embarrassing situation with Capitol Hill, another defeat with Capitol Hill.

What does that say about his political stature at this point?

HENRY: Well, you can bet coming so closely on the heels of the Dubai Ports debacle, which also split the Republican Party, where the president, in that case, came out on the short end of the stick, if this happens again, you can bet the calls and the claims that his political capital is shrinking will only increase. The president himself realized that and in another interview a couple of days ago, a pre-summit interview, he said, though, look, the bottom line is don't doubt my ability to find some sort of compromise in this sticky issue. He said don't underestimate me -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Ed Henry, a man we never underestimate here at CNN.

Thank you very much. Along with three heads of state in Mexico for the immigration summit, our own Lou Dobbs crossing the border, broken as it may be, in pursuit of answers. A Broken Borders special report on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" live from Mexico, 6:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

Laredo, Texas, smack dab on the U.S.-Mexican border, 90 percent Hispanic. In about 10 minutes, we'll talk to the mayor of that city and we'll ask her why she's so upset with the Mexican president -- Carol.

COSTELLO: On to a CNN Security Watch now.

Closing arguments today in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui. Then it's up to the jury to decide if the only man charged in the United States in connection to 9/11 will face the death penalty.

CNN's justice correspondent Kelli Arena joins us live from D.C. -- Kelli, good morning.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

You know, there have been so many twist and turns in this trial that it's hard for anyone to predict how this will turn out. Each side will get an hour later on this afternoon to try to sum it all up for the jury.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Zacarias Moussaoui's own attorneys presented evidence depicting him as a bumbling wannabe. In statements read to jurors, al Qaeda's former top operative in Southeast Asia described Moussaoui as "very troubled," "not right in the head" and "having a bad character."

The mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, Tafiq bin-Atash, said Moussaoui called him every day on a phone that was supposed to be reserved for emergencies. As a result, he cut off contact.

In another statement, senior al Qaeda leader Sayef al-Adal said Moussaoui was "absolutely not going to take part in the September 11 plot."

ANDREW MCBRIDE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It is helpful to the defense for some of these statements to be read into evidence, where known Al Qaeda operatives are expressing two things, really. One, we weren't so sure that Moussaoui was capable of undertaking the mission. And, secondly, we weren't so sure about Moussaoui's mental health.

ARENA: Moussaoui dealt his defense a major blow Monday when he told the jury he knew the World Trade Center was a target on September 11 and that he was supposed to fly a fifth plane into the White House that day.

The prosecution has argued Moussaoui should be executed because his lies to investigators in August 2001 caused the 9/11 attacks to go on undetected. The defense counters that even if Moussaoui had told the truth, the government could not have stopped the attack in time.

DOMINIC PUPOLO, 9/11 FAMILY MEMBER: It's painful. It brings back memories that I'm trying to -- to put aside and move on with my life. But it's part of the process of closure, you know? And I -- I would be remiss not to be here because I believe my mother would be here for me.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

ARENA: It was also revealed yesterday in court that Moussaoui had offered to testify against himself for the prosecution, further adding to the confusion for jurors who are trying to sort this whole thing out.

Now, after those closing arguments, the jury will receive instructions from the judge and then we expect them to start deliberating soon after that -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about that just a little bit more, about what he told FBI agents before this trial began.

Might it not be in his mind to want the death penalty because he wants to die a martyr and he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in prison?

ARENA: You know, he was asked about that in court and said that his life or death wasn't in the hands of the jury or the court, it was in the hands of god and that it was not his goal to -- to be a martyr in the court system, that it was different if he were to die on the battlefield, for example. And he also said heading into this trial that he was going to fight with everything in him against the death penalty.

So lots of mixed messages there.

COSTELLO: I can't even imagine what it's like to be in that courtroom, Kelli. I cannot.

ARENA: It's surreal sometimes. It's like you're at a Kafka performance.

COSTELLO: Wow!

Thank you very much.

Kelli Arena reporting live from Washington this morning.

Stay with CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Let's head to the newsroom now to check in with Kelly -- good morning.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Hello, everyone.

New developments to tell you about in the break-in at a water facility on the Massachusetts-Rhode Island border. We told you about this story a little earlier this morning.

We're now hearing that three teens have been arrested and they're being held for questioning. Homes and businesses in the area continue to stockpile water. A water ban was ordered after authorities found a suspicious container left behind after that break-in. We still don't know what substance, if any, was in it.

A grand jury in New Orleans is considering the case of the beating caught on videotape. And you probably remember this story. Sixty-four-year-old Robert Davis beaten on Bourbon Street last October. The officers have been charged with misdemeanors. The grand jury is being asked to decide if there's enough evidence to proceed with a more serious criminal case.

Returning to that story about the family found after a 17-day ordeal in the Oregon mountains, it turns out they might have been on the lam. Authorities now say the couple is wanted on drug charges in Arizona. That couple now under arrest and could also face felony flight charges for taking off.

The Italian cabinet has approved asylum for the Afghan man who faced the death penalty for converting to Christianity, but no word if that's where he'll end up. Abdul Rahman was released from jail late Monday. Afghanistan's parliament is demanding the government not let him leave the country.

And a sight we have not seen in years -- a rare total solar eclipse. The moon is moving between the Earth and the sun. These pictures are from Turkey. The eclipse isn't visible here in the United States.

And the next one we'll see, Miles, 2017. So we've got a long wait for the next one -- Carol, too.

O'BRIEN: I've got it in my Palm Pilot already.

WALLACE: I bet you do. I bet you do.

O'BRIEN: I'm ready to go.

COSTELLO: You know, oh, sadly, you're right, Kelly.

WALLACE: I know.

COSTELLO: He has it in there. I'm sure he does.

O'BRIEN: Well, so, what have you got something wrong with that? Huh? Huh? So what's the matter with that?

COSTELLO: Hey -- Chad.

O'BRIEN: Chad has it in his Palm Pilot, I bet, right?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You know what? By then the Palm Pilot will be in the palm of your hand.

O'BRIEN: I can hardly wait. Just click my teeth and see the date.

COSTELLO: It'll be a Fingertip Pilot.

O'BRIEN: It'll be, you know, like a hologram in front of me. It will be great.

MYERS: Exactly. Or you can just go look at your own solar eclipse on a hologram and just kind of move to just fake it.

O'BRIEN: Any minute you want.

MYERS: Any minute you want.

O'BRIEN: I love it.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Coming up on the program, more on the fight over immigration reform. We'll talk to the mayor of a city on the Mexico- Texas border. You might be surprised to hear what she has to say about all of this.

COSTELLO: Also, the New Orleans mayor's race is one of the most closely watched in the country. We'll look at some of the nearly two dozen candidates.

O'BRIEN: And later, a developing story. One of the most wanted criminals in the world back in custody after a vanishing act that scared a lot of people. He was nabbed at the border. We're talking about Charles Taylor and we'll fill you in after a break.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Along the Mexico-U.S. border, they know an awful lot, of course, about this whole issue of immigration, the good and the bad of it.

Betty Flores is the mayor of Laredo, Texas.

She joins us now from her city. She deals with this issue every day.

Madam Mayor, good to have you with us.

MAYOR BETTY FLORES, LAREDO, TEXAS: Thank you so much, Miles.

It's good to be with you.

O'BRIEN: Give us a sense of what immigration reform would be if you were to craft it.

FLORES: Well, for one thing, I think the debate has very much insulted us because everyone that I've heard talk about it at the national level, at least for the larger part, has taken out the human element and the value that the immigrant has brought to my community, to the State of Texas and to this great country.

And it's very difficult for us to even listen sometimes to the debate because I think it's very hard for someone that is living in the future -- because that's what we're doing. We talk about global economy all the time in this country, but we don't ever talk about the global workforce. And that's what we have here in Laredo. That's what we advocate in Laredo.

We understand border security. For all my life, I cannot leave the Laredo city limits without somebody asking me -- whether I leave on plane, train or automobile -- what my citizenship is.

So we are securing our borders and we can secure our borders without hurting the immigrant. And we need immigration reform. But that immigration reform has to, has to, for the good of this country, include a working guest -- a workers guest program. It has to.

And they can't just work for a little bit of time and leave.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's -- let's inject here the Republican point of view here.

Republican James Sensenbrenner, who has been a leading advocate in the House on this issue, Republican of Wisconsin, let's listen to what he had to say just a little while ago.

FLORES: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), WISCONSIN: They'll flood our schools. Our health care system will collapse and our social services system will end up being over taxed. We've got to get control of our borders because if we don't, we're going to see our economy collapse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: OK, do you -- do you buy that logic, if we don't get control of the borders, our economy will collapse?

FLORES: I don't. Not at all. That's just some make believe monster in the closer. If those things were real, then what we need to do is bring the people out of the shadows and have them become viable members of our community, have them pay for their services.

They're not here looking for a free ride, I can guarantee you that. But when they can get it, they will get it, because they need the services just like we do. They have children just like we do. And so we need to bring them out of the shadows and make them contributing members of this community. The president's bill is great. It's -- it brings the dialogue to the table and it says these folks are contributing to our economy. We need to listen more to what he's saying.

O'BRIEN: Well, I think that the issue -- most people would agree with all of that. The real issue is a matter of fairness. We're a nation of immigrants, but most of us would trace our lineage to illegal immigration at one time or another.

That's fair, right?

Is there anything...

FLORES: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: ... wrong with making it more fair and just?

FLORES: There is nothing wrong with making it more fair and just. But there's got to be an element where you bring in people that are here temporarily.

Laredo is full of workers that are here for the day, for the week, for the month. And they go back.

And you know why they go back?

Because they don't want to live here. They don't want to stay away from their families. They want to go back. The worker that has to go further than Laredo, however, has a lot of more difficulties in returning to their country. And so consequently you get the folks that eventually can't go back because they like the money they're sending home, it's helping the community. And so they stay here longer than they really wanted to.

If we make it easier for them to come and work here and go back, they will.

O'BRIEN: Mayor Flores, I know you've been critical of Mexican President Vicente Fox, because it is your perception he hasn't done much to stem all of this.

What do you think about that?

FLORES: Well, I definitely think that this debate has to include the Mexican president. He understands the value of the Mexican worker. And I don't understand, really, why he has not played a more important role in this debate.

This is not about a sit back and wait for any country that has immigrants -- illegal or legal -- in the United States. This is something that needs to be included. All of these presidents, all of these countries need to play a role in what the next step is going to be for the United States in immigration reform.

And I am very critical that he hasn't played a more positive role in this debate. O'BRIEN: All right, we'll watch him at the summit today and see what he has to say.

Mayor Betty Flores, mayor of Laredo, Texas.

Thanks for joining us.

And sorry about that earpiece.

FLORES: You're very welcome.

O'BRIEN: We'll try to get that fixed the next time.

FLORES: Bye-bye.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

And a reminder. With the president heading to Mexico for that summit on immigration and other matters with the leaders of Mexico and Canada, Lou Dobbs crossing the border, as well, in pursuit of answers. A Broken Borders special report, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT," 6:00 p.m. Eastern -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Coming up, how many colleges did you apply to? Four or maybe five? Well, these days some kids are applying to as many as 20 -- 20 different schools. We'll look at why some kids think that's the only way to get into the best schools.

And later, Apple versus Apple -- a look at how one high profile court case could change the way you download music.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: For the first time in American history, the New Orleans mayoral election may have more people voting outside the city than inside. It's perhaps the most closely watched mayoral contest in the country and plenty of people are going after the job.

AMERICAN MORNING'S Alina Cho talked to some of them -- good morning.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Nearly two dozen, Carol.

You know, by now you may have heard something about the mayoral election in New Orleans. What you may not know is that there are 23 people vying for Mayor Ray Nagin's job, 23. A few are serious contenders. Most are not.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CHO (voice-over): By now, most Americans have heard of Mayor Ray Nagin. MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: Hello there.

How are you?

CHO: But what about James Arey? Around New Orleans, he's known as...

JAMES AREY, CANDIDATE FOR NEW ORLEANS MAYOR: The singing mayor.

CHO: The 38-year-old radio show host is one of 23 candidates vying for Nagin's job. Arey's platform? Bringing back the arts.

AREY: Hope to win, don't expect to.

CHO: Arey is running a bare bones campaign.

So is Mac Rahman, an immigrant from India who has lived in New Orleans for 32 years. Rahman owns a restaurant and feels the concerns of small business owners are being ignored. He also believes money pollutes the political process.

MAC RAHMAN, CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: That's why I'm not spending any money.

CHO (on camera): But how do you get your word out then?

RAHMAN: I spent some money on my yard signs.

CHO (voice-over): Twenty-four-year-old candidate Nick Bacque gets his word out on the Internet.

NICK BACQUE, CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: Check it out, dude. Bacque.com.

CHO: The unlikely candidate is a medical student at Tulane and president of all the graduate schools. His message? Getting young professionals back to the Crescent City.

BACQUE: Assuming I don't win the mayoral race, I'll be returning to medical school in the fall.

CHO: Political pundits say only three candidates are serious contenders.

Ron Forman, best known for bringing a world class aquarium to New Orleans, is well funded and is building a coalition around business leaders.

RON FORMAN, CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: We need to dream a dream about a different New Orleans. What's the city going to look like? And it's got to be a different New Orleans than the city we left behind.

CHO: Lieutenant Governor Mitch Landrieu's biggest asset may be his name. His sister is U.S. Senator Mary Landrieu. His father was the last white mayor of New Orleans, back in the '70s. Landrieu says his base crosses racial lines.

MITCH LANDRIEU, CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: Even though I happen to be -- my skin happens to be white, I have always enjoyed tremendous support in the African-American community and the white community.

CHO: Incumbent Ray Nagin has the best name recognition.

NAGIN: I think most of the candidates don't really understand the challenge of this job. It looks sexy. It's high profile. But there's significant challenges.

CHO: Like managing his image. Who could forget on Martin Luther King Day when Nagin said New Orleans would be a chocolate city again.

NAGIN: I'm kind of speaking to everyone, but as I speak to the white community, it has tended to offend the black community, and vice versa.

CHO: Nagin was elected in 2002 by an overwhelming majority of the white v. It remains to be seen who voters will support this time.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CHO: It is the big question. Now, the election will be held on April 22. If no one gets 50 percent of the vote, there will be a runoff on May 20th.

Many of the experts believe there will be a runoff and that it will be Nagin facing either Lieutenant Governor Landrieu or businessman Ron Forman.

Carol, either way, it certainly will be a race to watch.

COSTELLO: Well, I'm wondering, you know, like the singing mayoral candidate and the medical -- I mean why are so many people running who don't have a chance of winning?

CHO: Well, it's interesting, I asked them that, of course, and there are so many issues, if you think about it, so many problems post-Katrina, that these people, all 23, 24 of them, they want to get their issues out there. And they say listen, we know that probably won't win, but maybe one of the bigger candidates will fold our issue into their platform down the line.

So they're about getting their message out. They're not about winning.

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk now about the voting process itself, because so many people are not living in New Orleans yet.

CHO: Right.

COSTELLO: So how can they get in there to vote? Do they -- they could vote by absentee ballot, couldn't they? CHO: That's right.

Well, the evacuees are being called the wild card. Nobody really knows how many of them will v.

Now, there are a couple of ways they can v. There will actually be satellite polling stations open throughout the State of Louisiana, about 10 of them. So you can do that. And they're actually bussing people into those polling stations. That's for early voting only. And then there is, of course, the absentee ballots, which you talked about.

That's a bit of a complicated process. We'll get into more of that tomorrow. We'll talk a little bit more about how the candidates, those who can afford to, are actually crisscrossing the region, playing a bit of a cat and mouse game, trying to find those voters in places like Houston, Atlanta...

COSTELLO: Well, you can also really see how the election might be tainted.

CHO: Well, there have been calls by civil rights groups to delay the election, certainly, saying that there are many voters who aren't able to get back to the city, aren't able to v.

But we spoke to some evacuees in Houston who -- who say, you know, we have no immediate plans to return to New Orleans, but we want to have a voice. And that was encouraging. They -- they do want to v. So we'll have more on that tomorrow.

COSTELLO: All right, we look forward to that.

CHO: All right.

COSTELLO: Thank you, Alina -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Coming up on the program, a potentially controversial addition to one state's high school curriculum -- the bible.

And later, how do you improve your kid's chances of getting into the best possible college? Some parents have their kids applying to as many as 20 schools. Twenty applications! Twenty essays! Twenty application fees! Think about it.

We'll check in with a student who has done just that on the eve of decision day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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