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American Morning
Capitol Complaint; Glass Ceiling
Aired April 05, 2006 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Others injured. When we get more information, we'll pass it along to you.
In the meantime, Saddam Hussein trying to turn the tables in his cross examination. Hussein was asked about death sentences against Shiites in the 1980s. Hussein dodged questions by calling the court illegitimate and then he accused Iraq's minister of interior of being responsible for the killing and torturing of thousands of people.
One day after discussing health care with his staff, President Bush is pushing ideas in Connecticut. In about three hours he will be in Bridgeport discussing health savings accounts. The president hoping to drive home his idea that they'll lower medical costs. But critics say they're already to expensive for the working poor and there are many working poor in the city of Bridgeport.
We are getting fatter. New studies show American men and children are getting heavier. But there is a bit of brighter news. Obesity rates among adult women are actually leveling off. Experts say it's all a matter of portion size, so say no to super sizing.
Let's talk about something good. Maryland is celebrating its first ever women's NCAA title. Some fans getting a little crazy, as you can see. Well, getting a little too crazy, I should say. They set fires. They tried to knock over a bus. But there were no reports of arrests or injuries. This is in College Park, Maryland, where the University of Maryland is. That happens all the time when they win a big game. Who can explain it? But they've got reason to be excited, that's for sure. The Terrapins pulled Duke into overtime. The shots kept coming in the final seconds. But as you can see from the hugs, Maryland beat Duke 78-75.
Back to you, Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Carol, thank you very much.
Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, a Democrat from Georgia, could face criminal charges from a confrontation with a Capitol Hill police officer. The incident goes back to last Wednesday when she was stopped on her way into a House office building. Representative McKinney and her lawyer, Mike Raffauf, are in Washington, D.C., this morning.
Nice to see you. Thank you very much.
We should mention you have another attorney, James Myart Jr., who is on the phone as well.
Good morning.
First, Congresswoman, can you tell me from the very beginning, what happened on that day, Wednesday? You're trying to come in to your office to go to a meeting, I know. What happened?
REP. CYNTHIA MCKINNEY, (D) GEORGIA: Good morning, Soledad. Thank you so much for having us on this morning.
Let me say that this has become much ado about a hairdo. And the real issue . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Well, and I hear you, but I'm going to stop you there because -- let me . . .
MCKINNEY: You can't stop me, Soledad. The real issue is . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Well, I want to get to what happened first, and then we'll get into the real issue because we need to establish what happened.
MCKINNEY: The real issue is face recognition and security around the Capitol complex. And I have an e-mail here from a former page saying that 16-year-old pages are required to know by name and by face all of the members of Congress. Shouldn't Capitol Hill police officers be required to do the same?
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: The answer to that question may be, Congresswoman, no, actually, technically, they're not. Their job is to protect yourself and your other fellow members of Congress.
But before we get into the far reaching implications, and I know we've been talking about race and racial profiling over the last several of days, I just want to know what happened. You go through the metal -- you approach the metal detector. Tell me, in your own words, what happened.
MIKE RAFFAUF, ATTORNEY FOR REP. MCKINNEY: Well, that should be answered by her attorney. Look, whatever reaction she had --this is not a criminal matter. What you had was bad security policy being implemented by a poorly trained officer that led to the inappropriate stop and inappropriate touching of the congresswoman.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: OK. So let me -- let me . . .
RAFFAUF: Now whether it was a push, a shove, a hit, it doesn't matter.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Well, what's the congresswoman's story? Were you pushed? Were you shoved? Were you hit? Did you hit back?
RAFFAUF: Again, we're not the ones who turned this into a criminal matter. And, you know, a person who's accused of a crime is not going to give a statement at this point. SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But actually -- but with all due respect, sir, and gosh knows I'm not a lawyer, lots of people who are accused of a crime would say, here's what happened. Why can't someone just walk me through what happened?
RAFFAUF: Well, we don't know -- we haven't been told what happened that set . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: From your side, what happened? From the congresswoman's side, what happened?
MCKINNEY: Well, let me just say that it is a fact that we have had several discussions, and you're absolutely right, right there at CNN, about this larger issue of racial profiling. We've had a press conference with Danny Glover and Harry Belafonte where 39 young African-Americans from Georgia told their story about how they felt disrespected and mistreated by the Capitol Police. We have 200 . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: With all due respect, Congresswoman, and forgive me for interrupting you, but I believe we can't have this . . .
MCKINNEY: We have 250 -- no, but you shouldn't interrupt me, Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Well, until you answer my question, I'm not sure we can move on.
MCKINNEY: We have 250 . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: What I'm trying to establish is, are you saying that a Capitol Police officer purchased you, grabbed you inappropriately? And, ma'am, if he did, please explain what happened. That's all. Let's establish that. Then I would love to talk about racial profiling.
MCKINNEY: Thanks . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I have a great interest in talking about race.
JAMES MYART JR., ATTORNEY: Let me (INAUDIBLE), Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I believe this is your attorney on the phone.
MYART: I understand the fact that you're trying to interview her and get her to answer certain questions. But, look, if this was such a big crime, why was Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney not arrested on the spot? Now we have got to get the stories correct here.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I could not agree with you more.
MYART: Capitol Police failed at their job.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I could not agree with you more that we should get the stories correct. So, somebody, anybody, lawyer, Congresswoman, you walk up to get into the office building. What happened? Did you -- you weren't wearing your pin, I know, and you've said that. You did say that on an interview with Wolf Blitzer. You approached the area. What -- just tell me what happened.
MCKINNEY: I'll tell you what happened.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Thank you.
MCKINNEY: In fact, over 250 black police officers have filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Capitol Police Department.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Forgive me for my lack of clarity. What happened that day, ma'am?
RAFFAUF: Look, we have answered that question to the best that we can under these circumstances. Again, this matter is under review right now. Criminal charges may be brought. Congresswoman McKinney did cooperate with the Capitol Hill Police. She sat down with them. This is not going to be a place where we're going to rehash the facts of this incident.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: With all due . . .
MCKINNEY: But, Soledad . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But, wait . . .
MCKINNEY: Soledad, let me . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Just let me say one thing. No, actually, this is my program, so one quick thing. You haven't rehashed it.
MCKINNEY: And I'm your guest.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You've never been stated. And I'm happy to have you as a guest.
MCKINNEY: Thank you.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And you know I'm always happy to talk to you about this issue or any other issue.
MCKINNEY: Thank you.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But what's at issue here, with all due respect, is what happened on that day. Did you push the police officer?
RAFFAUF: We don't know. We don't even know the allegations.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Does the police officer . . .
RAFFAUF: We don't know what specifically she's accused of. So . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: OK.
MCKINNEY: And, Soledad, let me also just say that while we're talking about a new hairdo and a pin, this is the congressional pin that doesn't have a name on it, it doesn't have a face or a photo ID on it and, quite frankly, it can be duplicated. But what are the other issues that we're not talking about? I'm going to continue to talk about the fact that the Republican budget drowns America's children in a sea of debt. I'm going to continue to talk about the war in Iraq and my opposition to it. I'm going to continue to talk about my opposition to any impending strike against Iran. No more war.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: All interesting topics, ma'am. But to a large degree, what's being talked about now is an issue that really it's unclear how you're going to get a straight story out of . . .
MCKINNEY: Well, I . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But let me just stop for one second.
MCKINNEY: OK.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I'm going to bring in the chief of the Capitol Hill Police. Chief Gainer is with us this morning. I'm going to ask Representative McKinney and her attorneys for a moment just to let us do our interview with Chief Gainer. And then, Congresswoman McKinney, we'll bring you back.
Chief Gainer, thank you for talking with us.
CHIEF TERRANCE GAINER, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: Good morning.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I have not been able to get a sense of the congresswoman's side of exactly what happened. Can you tell me what the officer has told you about what happened?
GAINER: Well, the matter is pending review by the U.S. attorney's office. But in essence what happened, the member approached the door. Members don't have to go through the magnetometers but the need to be recognized. It was a busy door. The officer did not recognize the member. She was not wearing her pin. He reached out and grabbed her. She turned around and hit him.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Hit him with her hand? Hit him with a cell phone? Hit him with . . .
GAINER: The cell phone was in her hand and we believe it was in the chest. So all the tapes are being reviewed. And the bottom line for us is, we do pride ourselves in security. It wasn't racial profiling. Anytime an officer doesn't know who someone is coming in the building, I direct them to stop that person. And even if you're stopped, you're not supposed to hit a police officer. It's very simple.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: There are 535 members of Congress. Congresswoman McKinney has said there's only 14 black female Congress members. You know, the idea that they could not recognize, pick her face out. I mean there's so few, shouldn't she stand out? Doesn't she have a point there? GAINER: Well, number one, I don't think we should be treating members of Congress different because how they look. Ideally, we teach our officers who the members are. When they go through the academy, they learn that. When new members come in, they're given those photographs. But at those busy doors where some 30,000 people come into our complex who work there, some nine million visitors a year, the doors are busy and the officers are told, slow down and make sure we know who's coming in the building.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Now she's not a . . .
GAINER: This should have been handled very simply by saying -- he pulled her, as he should have, because he didn't know who she was. It would have been very simple to say, gee, I got a little bit angry, this shouldn't have happened, let's kind of calm down and take our breath. This is not a racial issue.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: OK, well two points then. First, you're saying that you wouldn't -- there wouldn't be a call for her arrest if -- or criminal charges if she had apologized? Is that what it comes down to?
GAINER: No. What I'm saying is, it could have ended very quickly then, but we also have to back up our officers. People cannot hit policemen when they disagree with what the policemen are doing. If a member of Congress or any citizen thinks our officers are misbehaving, racial profiling, there's all sorts of procedures to check that out. The response is not to punch a police officer. That's very simple.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: This is a woman who's served six terms in Congress. It's not like, you know, well she just joined and that's why they didn't realize who she was. Can understand her frustration . . .
GAINER: I sure can.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Especially as a black woman, you know, she's the minority in the minority there, to feel like, how come everyone assumes I don't belong here?
GAINER: Well, that's not the case at all. I've seen our officers stop white members and black members, and Latino, male and female. It's not an issue about what your race or gender is, it's an issue about making sure people who come into our building are recognized if they're not going through the magnetometer. And this officer, at that moment, didn't recognize her. And it would have been real easy, as most members of Congress do, to say here's who I am or do you kn ow who I am? One of the ways you do is you have the pin on. And even with the pin, that's not an automatic entrance. The officer would look at the pin, look at the person. And if he saw the pin and the person and it didn't ring true to him, the officer would say, who are you? Even the high and the haughty should be able to stop and say, I'm a congressman and then everybody moves on.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Chief Gainer, let me bring Congresswoman McKinney back in to talk with us.
Congresswoman McKinney, you've been listening to what the chief has had to say. Any final word? Any response?
RAFFAUF: Well, I think that she did sit down with them the same day. She sat down with the supervisors . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. Let me -- forgive me. Forgive me. This is not a legal question. It's just a, do you have a final response, Congresswoman?
MCKINNEY: Soledad, I think you should accept the response that my attorney is trying to give to you.
RAFFAUF: She sat down with the supervisor of the Capitol Hill Police force that day. She talked to him about what happened. She offered to talk to the officer. So the congresswoman is not the one who's blown this incident all out of proportions. Again, I think that the officer you've interviewed can see this should not be a criminal matter, and we wholeheartedly agree, but it's not the congresswoman who's made this escalate into what it's become.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And, Congresswoman, do you have any final response to what you heard from Chief Gainer?
MCKINNEY: I would just like to say, thank you, Soledad, for the questions that you've asked, but also I would just like to say that the actions of a few officers do not representative the actions of an entire police department. And finally, I would just like to also add, that right now the U.S. Capitol Police have two outstanding lawsuits that have been filed against them by their own black police officers. And so if we're going to have a discussion, let's have a complete discussion of all of the facts.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Those are class action lawsuits dating back to 2001, absolutely true. However, with all due respect, if I had gotten answers a little more quickly, maybe we could have gotten to that as well.
Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney joining us, her lawyers, Mike Raffauf and also James Myart, who's on the phone. Terrance Gainer is the chief of the Capitol Hill Police. To all of you, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
GAINER: Thank you.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN: Let's get another check of the weather. Chad Myers at CNN Center with that.
Hello, Chad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
MILES O'BRIEN: Andy Serwer here "Minding Your Business." ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am. A couple big legal battles going on. NetFlix say Blockbuster is a copy cat.
Plus, Tropicana versus Minute Maid. A resolution in the calcium wars. We'll tell you about that coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
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MILES O'BRIEN: Andy Serwer is here. NetFlix versus Blockbuster.
SERWER: Yes.
MILES O'BRIEN: Got to love the movie type (INAUDIBLE).
SERWER: Battle of the lawyers.
MILES O'BRIEN: Battle of the lawyers.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's always the battle of the lawyers.
MILES O'BRIEN: The theme of the morning, you might say.
SERWER: Yes, it really is.
MILES O'BRIEN: Lot of lawyers. To many lawyers on this program.
SERWER: The first thing we should do is -- never mind.
NetFlix is suing Blockbuster, charging that Blockbuster's online strategy violates patents that NetFlix holds. Yep, you're going to be scratching your head a little bit here. Specifically NetFlix says that Blockbuster has copied its wish list priority system. Can you copyright that? Unclear. Also suggesting that Blockbuster may be violating its unlimited fee, unlimited time rental thing. I just -- I don't buy this.
MILES O'BRIEN: These aren't copyrightable, patentable things.
SERWER: I don't think you can patent some of this stuff. Maybe the wish list. But, you know, the fact -- a pricing strategy? You can't . . .
MILES O'BRIEN: Well, they didn't invent the wish list. I mean, come on.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You know, but isn't that intellectual property?
SERWER: It is.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Could be.
SERWER: I think, see, the first part could be.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: My sister's an intellectual property attorney.
MILES O'BRIEN: She's like a lawyer. SERWER: I was going to say, you sound like you know a little bit about this. And it's a little scary that you're - - well, that's good. It's good that you know about this, I guess.
Now here's another one. How about this one. Procter & Gamble has settled a lawsuit with the Coca-Cola Company. This one in claim that the beverage maker had used Procter & Gamble's technology to infuse calcium in orange juice. And what had gone on here is that Procter & Gamble had licensed this technology to Tropicana, which is owned by Pepsico, which maybe that's what this is all about, just another Pepsi versus Coke battle. But a lot of people buy that orange juice with calcium in it. And I thought they just sprinkled this in.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: That's what I thought. I didn't realize in using . . .
MILES O'BRIEN: A little dollop of calcium, right?
SERWER: Yes, right, just kind of shook it in with the . . .
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Crunch up the calcium tablets, throw it in, shake it up.
SERWER: Apparently there's a whole technology behind it. So, go figure.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Weird. All right.
Thanks very much.
MILES O'BRIEN: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, millions are going to file their taxes online this year. The question is, is e-filing right for you? We're going to talk this morning, get some advice from our AMERICAN MORNING tax guy.
Also, it's official, Katie Couric leaving the "Today" show. She's going to become the anchor of the "CBS Evening News." With so many people breaking glass ceilings in business and politics, why are so many people so focused on Katie's gender? A closer look ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Well, as we said a moment ago, it is official, Katie Couric is going to be sleeping in. Lucky gal. She's leaving the "Today" show for CBS. She'll become the first solo female anchor of an evening news broadcast. Author and journalist Gail Sheehy knows a little something about powerful women, both real and fictional. Her latest book is called "Sex and The Seasoned Woman." She joins us this morning.
It's nice to see you. GAIL SHEEHY, "SEX AND THE SEASONED WOMAN": Lovely to be here, Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Thank you.
Any surprise that Katie has made this jump?
SHEEHY: Not at all. I expected it because she is a seasoned woman and she knows who she is. And I'm sure she's anxious to get back to being that tenacious news woman she was before the "Today" show turned her into Chatty Cathy. And it's also natural for a woman to take a risk as she's approaching 50 and reinvent herself.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: She talked about that, you know, that she's sort of ready to step out of her comfort zone.
SHEEHY: Yes.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And I think women, maybe I'm wrong, but do this more than men. I mean, reinvent themselves over and over again.
SHEEHY: Well, sure. We follow a kind of a scenic route as opposed to one in a long, straight line trying to get to the top. And all highly accomplished people take risks when other people might warn her, oh, this is a big risk. Well, you know, she's really. And suppose she fails. It's not the end of the world. You only live one. And she'd learn something from it.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: There are people who are critics of women being in the evening news seat at all who say, you know, women, they lack gravitas.
SHEEHY: Oh, please.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's a big breaking story. Nobody wants to hear from a woman. They want the guy in the suit. And I always feel like, oh, so gravitas means, you know, you're male. It doesn't mean . . .
SHEEHY: It means gray hair and lines. But, you know, women stood up during 9/11. There were some wonderful correspondents who carried us through that period. There are women war correspondents. You know, there are women who are now being elected presidents of countries and so why should we be surprised that a woman who has earned her stripes as a news woman for many years -- 15 or 20 years.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes, she's got a pretty impressive resume. I mean she's (INAUDIBLE) correspondent, has done a bunch of other stuff.
SHEEHY: Exactly.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: So it doesn't surprise you at all.
Do you think that the issue is really more age than gender? About being ready to make a move? SHEEHY: Well, I think age is very important for a woman because, when you reach 50, you get a certain bypass which is towards post menopausal high status. That was Margaret Mead's (ph) term. You know, and in Katie's case, we've seen her change and grow. We've seen -- she's played out the stages and passages of a woman's first adulthood in other living rooms. We've seen her through her 30s and 40s, undergoing crisis, losing her partner prematurely, assuming a parenting role of both male and female. We've seen her voluntary obligation to educate us about colon cancer. And I think what she tells us is the promise that a woman's 50s can be the best decades of our lives.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: People sometimes point to the morning shows, especially the network morning shows, and they say, you know, there's cooking segments and, you know, and really, there's news. 9/11, I mean, the "Today" show, and Katie specifically, and Matt, covered that brilliantly, I thought.
SHEEHY: Right. Brilliantly, yes.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: So why do you think there's so much focus on the legs and the glamour and the hairdo and the boyfriends and all this stuff?
SHEEHY: Well, it's just the natural. We're a celebrity culture and we want to, you know, see people in their most superficial light. But I think it's wonderful. All female leaders have been able to capture both the sense of gravitas and having gone through tragedy and come up fighting again. But also they either project themselves as maternal, like the new president of Chile who is a pediatrician and also survived torture and exile, or they're flirty. I mean Margaret Thatcher was one of the most outrageous flirts, as the iron woman, of any leader I've ever seen and covered.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Do you think women are going to eventually be given the gravitas or do you think the gravitas changes? I mean that it no longer are going to - - people are going to look for evening news anchors having gravitas but something else when there's . . .
SHEEHY: You know, the whole idea of gravitas, who are most of the therapists in the world? They're mostly women who deal with men and carry them through crisis. So I think having a woman as a news anchor who can keep us steady through the ups and downs of our natural life is a very natural role. We just haven't seen it played out yet, except in television and movies.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Right.
SHEEHY: You know, we like to have a rehearsal first.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Well, now it's real life. Congratulations to Katie.
SHEEHY: Yes.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Gail Sheehy, nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us this morning. Appreciate it.
SHEEHY: Oh, my pleasure.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN: You've got gravitas, definitely. Absolutely.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: If it's lack of sleep, yes, I definitely have that.
MILES O'BRIEN: Maybe that's what it is. Maybe that is what it is. All right.
In a moment, top stories, including a high level homeland security official arrested in an online sex sting,.
One of the Saddam's defense attorneys thrown out of court. We'll tell you why live from Baghdad.
A real-life murder mystery in one of Connecticut's wealthiest communities.
And then some New Orleans residents forced to fight their way back home.
And two levee breaks in Northern California, flooding neighborhoods, forcing hundreds to flee there.
Stay with us for all that and more on AMERICAN MORNING.
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