Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Sunday

Los Angeles Archbishop Uses His Voice in Immigration Debate; Increase in Tornadic Activity Since January; Judas Vs. Jesus

Aired April 09, 2006 - 17:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN LIVE SUNDAY, I'm Carol Lin. Ahead in this hour, a child's plea for help ignored and now his mother is dead. Who is responsible?
Also, a published report suggests the White House is planning military action against Iran. We're live with the very latest.

And the gospel of Judas. A controversial new program is raising eyebrows on the relationship between Judas and his traitor.

It's been a busy day, so let's give you the headlines. An intruder jumps a fence at the White House. President Bush was inside and Secret Service agents arrest the intruder. The man screamed that he was a victim of terrorism and said that he had intelligence to share with the president.

Republican Senator Arlen Specter says that both President Bush and Vice President Cheney need to own up. Who said what about leaking classified information? Specter says Americans should know exactly what happened.

And new videotape emerges of two German hostages seized in Iraq. They were both kidnapped north of Baghdad back in January.

And Christians mark the last days of Christ. Today Pope Benedict XVI led Vatican pilgrims in the annual Palm Sunday celebration.

A boy's mother collapses. He calls 911 for help. The 911 operator scolds him for making a prank call. By the time the paramedics arrived she's dead. CNN's Fredricka Whitfield has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): One afternoon in February, five-year-old Robert Turner found his mother unconscious in their Detroit apartment.

ROBERT TURNER, CALLED 911: And I felt her tummy. She wasn't breathing. And I had called 911. Telling them to send an emergency truck right now.

WHITFIELD: But the 911 dispatcher didn't take Robert seriously.

DISPATCHER: Emergency 911, what is the problem?

TURNER: My mom has passed out.

DISPATCHER: Where's the grownups at?

TURNER: (inaudible)

DISPATCHER: Let me speak to her. Let me speak to her before I send the police over there.

WHITFIELD: The police weren't sent. Some three hours later Robert called again with the same result.

TURNER: (inaudible)

DISPATCHER: I don't care. You shouldn't be playing on the phone. Now put her on the phone before I send the police out there to knock on the door and you gonna be in trouble.

TURNER: Ugh!

WHITFIELD: When police finally arrived at 9:22 p.m. they found 46-year-old Sherrill Turner dead. The family is now planning a wrongful death lawsuit against Detroit police.

DELAINE PATTERSON, ROBERT TURNER'S SISTER: This was a child calling. There was no laughter. And he repeated what he was saying.

TYRONE PATTERSON, VICTIM'S SON IN LAW: Every one should be trained to treat every situation as an emergency. People don't just call 911 as a joke. "My mom has passed out." The message was clear.

WHITFIELD: The union that represents dispatchers says about a quarter of all 911 calls are prank.

KIMBERLY HARRIS, LOCAL UNION PRESIDENT: That operator could have five pranks calls - kids calling, prior to that call. And police don't -- you know, don't think I'm trying to make an excuse. You know that was a tragedy.

WHITFIELD: The dispatcher who took the second call. An 18 year veteran remains on the job.

HARRIS: I know that operator. I know the she's a very good operator. She is very thorough.

WHITFIELD: The Detroit police say the department is investigating the handling of the calls. For Robert, now six, the rights and wrongs of the case are less important than the sadness he feels.

TURN: Every time somebody talks about her I just bust and start crying.

WHITFIELD: Fredricka Whitfield, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LIN: Tonight at 10:00 Eastern I'm interviewing the president of the 911 dispatcher's union in Michigan. She knows the dispatcher and thinks she is being hung out to dry.

Now, an investigative journalist reports the White House may be planning a military strike on Iran. Seymour Hersh quotes unidentified sources. They are telling him the target would be Iran's nuclear facilities. The reporter for the "New Yorker" magazine appeared on CNN's "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEYMOUR HERSH, WRITER, "THE NEW YORKER": He absolutely thinks as I wrote, that he is the only one now who will have the courage to do it. He's politically free. I do not think he is overwhelming concerned about the '06 congressional elections. I think he really thinks he has a chance. And this is going to be his mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Elaine Quijano is covering what the White House has to say. Elaine?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With concerns about Iran's nuclear ambitions growing and diplomatic discussions so far yielding little, one possibility the Bush administration hasn't ruled out is military action. But that option, say experts, is fraught with difficulties.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should not fool ourselves to think it will just be a strike and then it would be over. The Iranians will retaliate. And they have many possibilities in an area where there are many vulnerabilities from our troop positions to the oil and gas in the region that could be interrupted to attacks on Israel. To the conduct of terrorism.

QUIJANO: The White House insists it's focused on diplomacy, on working with the International Atomic Agency and the United Nations.

British foreign secretary Jack Straw echoed that, saying the Bush administration is pursuing a diplomatic situation with Iran, flatly dismissing the notion of a U.S. military strike.

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN MINISTER: It isn't on the agenda. I believe it's not on the agenda and they are very committed indeed to resolving this issue which is a complicated issue by negotiation, and yes, by diplomatic pressure.

QUIJANO: But investigator journalist Seymour Hersh writes in the "New Yorker" magazine, that according to a single unnamed source, the White House wants to keep not only a military operation on the table, but a nuclear operation.

HERSH: That doesn't mean it's going to happen. They refuse to take it out. And what I'm writing here is that if this isn't removed and I say this very seriously, I have been around this town for 40 years, some senior officers are prepared to resigned.

STRAW: The idea of a nuclear strike on Iran is completely nuts.

QUIJANO: And a Pentagon spokesman would only say quote, "Sy Hersh has a single anonymous source who is not in government and both Hersh and the source have made fantastic, unverified and wrong allegations before."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO (on camera): Now, a senior administration official, while not denying the story outright, said people looking to draw broad conclusions based on military contingency planning were quote, "ill informed" or not knowledgeable about the administration's thinking.

Carol?

LIN: Elaine, thank you.

Today's storm victims in Tennessee began salvaging what they could. A dawn to dusk curfew is still in effect. Twelve people died in this weekend's ferocious storms. So they're cleaning up also in Georgia. And officials say four twisters hit homes and businesses in four suburban counties north of Atlanta. Georgia's insurance commissioner says it's some of the worst damage he has seen in years. No deaths, though, or serious injuries were reported.

In California, though, the problem is flooding. And state water officials are taking steps to shore-up levees. Lessons learned from Katrina. Most California reservoirs are filled to capacity. So let's see what's on the horizon out west. Bonnie Schneider at the CNN Weather Center. Bonnie?

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Carol, right now we're getting light to moderate rain into the San Jose area across Monterrey into Monterrey Bay and to Salinas as well. So, that's not really the concern for the moment. But what's going to happen is we're expecting the rain to really increase for this region. Especially over Fresno and up towards central and northern California. In fact, I'm show you the storm system coming onboard on Tuesday.

Here it is. You can see it off into the Pacific. These clouds will be rolling in over the next 48 hours. And the problem is it means real saturation of rain coming in starting on Tuesday going into Wednesday.

In fact, what we can do s show you our computer models as we project out into the future in the next 48 hours. Notice this band of precipitation here through Central California stretching all the way down southward towards Fresno. And you'll watch as we work our way towards Tuesday, this is really the beginning of the storm, it's producing, according to this legend here, up to three inches by the time we get through the next 48 hours. So it's a big storm system that is going to come onshore to much of Northern and Central California and unfortunately bringing rain to an area that's been quite saturated so far.

So we'll be watching this for you, Carol.

LIN: All right, thanks Bonnie.

Now to battle over immigration.

Today in Dallas, thousands rallied in support of immigrants' rights. Many with American flags. Old Glory also appeared at mass rally at Salt Lake City. Right now, thousands of immigration supporters are marching towards the Utah state capitol. Tomorrow rallies are planned in all 50 states.

Now, the Roman Catholic Church one of the loudest voices in the immigration debate. The archbishop of Los Angeles wants priests to defy any law that would punish those who help illegal immigrants. CNN's Kareen Wynter reports from L.A.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the closest thing to home for those who have entered the United States illegally from Mexico and find life on this side of the border even more challenging. A place to bathe. Sleep and enjoy the simple pleasure of watching television.

This isn't your typical shelter. The Delores Mission and Catholic Church in East Los Angeles is a sanctuary for the homeless. Many of them illegal immigrants.

FR. SEAN CARROLL, DELORES MISSION: They are not just people who are here with us, but they really do become people who are part of our community.

WYNTER: The poorest Catholic parish in L.A. County has been feeding the hungry since 1985. Father Sean Carroll worries about the stringent legislative proposals in Washington to crackdown on illegals and those who help them.

CARROLL: Those who are undocumented in our country are some of the people who are most in need. So we will be faithful to that call and will continue to be faithful to that call come what may.

WYNTER: Los Angeles is a nation's largest Roman Catholic archdiocese. Its cardinal, Roger Mahony is urging his priest to defy any law that punishes immigration assistant.

SISTER PAT REINHART, DELORES MISSION: In fact, our own government, for the sake of considering us criminals because we assist people who is hungry or needs a place to say or needs medical attention, to me is horrific.

WYNTER: This past Friday a small army of parishioners from this East L.A church combined a Catholic ritual with protests against the bill before Congress.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Immigrants are being treated like slaves.

WYNTER: A dress rehearsals of sorts for a march Monday. One of numerous planned across the country as part of a national effort to rally for more liberal immigrant policies.

JUAN VICENTE, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT (through translator): I'm going to keep marching and doing everything possible to make sure that good immigration reform is passed.

JORGE FRANCO, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT (through translator): I'm very proud to be here. To be in the United States. And to be in this church. And believe that God will work in this whole immigration debate.

WYNTER Church leaders say this is the Catholic community's call to action. And that it's not a matter of politics but a moral response to make room for those who are already here. Kareen Wynter, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: You'll want to join us tonight for a special CNN PRESENTS, "Immigrant Nation" -- divided country. 8:00 p.m. Eastern. 5:00 Pacific.

Remembering prisoners of wars. An in-depth look at ceremonies honoring those who disappeared on the battlefield.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The one disciple who Jesus entrusts with secret understanding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Also, the Gospel of Judas. Ahead, was there evidence that Jesus wasn't betrayed. And tornadoes by the dozens. We may see some records this season. I'm interviewing a meteorologist with the National Storm Prediction Center. You're watching CNN SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Confusion and chaos in Karachi, Pakistan as a stampede claims of dozen of lives.

Shanon Cook following that story for us. Shanon?

SHANON COOK, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, thanks very much Carol. Now, what was supposed to be a peaceful religious gathering went horribly wrong. Thousands of worshipers were filing out a mosque in Karachi, Pakistan. When witnesses say a girl fell down, causing a massive panic, a stampede essentially. At least 30 people died in the crush. All of them were women and children. We're seeing some images of people being whisked off to hospitals. Carol, just a horrific turn of events for these worshippers.

LIN: Why would something like a girl falling down cause this? Why were the people so on edge?

COOK: Well, it's difficult to say. But all these people had come from a mosque where they were commemorating the birthday of Prophet Mohamed which actually falls on Tuesday. You know, we hear about stampedes a lot when it comes to Islamic religious events. We talk about stampedes a lot when we're talking about the Hajj, around the time of the Hajj, because it's been marred in the past by some really, really horrific stampedes.

I guess the difference here is that all of these people were women and children.

LIN: Such sad pictures.

Hey, I heard there were more demonstrations in Nepal. Isn't there a curfew in effect there?

COOK: There absolutely is and Carol, when you think of Nepal you think picture postcard images like, say, trekking through the Himalayas comes to mind but take a look at these images here. A dramatically different picture. Chaos on the streets of Katmandu today as protesters defied a strict curfew imposed to stop pro democracy rallies. Protests have been going on for four days now and have actually turned violent. Troops have actually killed three people.

Protesters want Nepal's king to step down. And essentially they want a return to democracy.

Now let's return our attention to Iraq now. In Iraq it was Freedom Day on Sunday. The third anniversary of the fall of Saddam Hussein. However, that certainly didn't mean a break in the violence. A bomb exploded aboard a minibus killing one person and injuring seven others. Three other Iraqis died in roadside bomb blasts. And Carol, also the bodies of five men were found east of Baghdad. Police say the men appeared to have been tortured. So yet another deadly weekend in Iraq, Carol.

LIN: All right. Shanon, thank you very much. Shanon Cook working on a bunch of international stories for us tonight.

COOK: Thank you.

LIN: Want to give you better news here stateside. President Bush designated today as National Former Prisoner of War Recognition Day.

Now these are the forgotten soldiers. CNN's Gary Nurenberg met two who risked their lives for their country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-eight former prisoners of wars were honored in ceremonies in St. Paul. In Madison, Wisconsin, former prisoners told their stories.

More than 130,000 Americans were POWs in World War II.

DR. CHARLES STENGER, WWII POW: I made a white flag. And I got up and went over to the German lines to get help for the wounded. Scariest thing I ever did in my life.

NURENBERG: Charles Stenger was 21 when he was captured in the Battle of the Bulge.

STENGER: Every day, it's -- seemed like a lifetime kind of thing. Because you're continually under the threat of the Germans killing you or maiming you or something like that. Or your own side bombing the hell out of you.

NURENBERG: Mike Benge, saw horrors in his 63 months as Vietnam POW.

MIKE BENGE, VIETNAM POW: They ended up going up, systemically executing all 15 of them. Just shot them right in the back of their heads.

NURENBERG: He remembers the missionary who kept her alive. Who was poisoned by his captors.

BENGE: It took her three days to die.

NURENBERG: So he is bothered when he sees Americans punished for misconduct at Iraq's Abu Ghraib's prison.

BENGE: We have pictures all of the guards who tortured us. In North Vietnam. And nothing has ever been done and yet, we -- in the name of trade, forgotten all about that.

NURENBERG: And on this day, recognizing former prisoners of war he wants something else of his country.

BENGE: All we're asking for an accurate, full accounting of the POW-MIAs from the Vietnam War. And that is the debt of gratitude that they owe all of us.

NURENBERG: Gary Nurenberg, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: A special delivery for hundreds of kids from a girl who ran the prom dress express.

But first, remembering the a massacre that the world ignored, 12 years later. A new documentary takes a look at what happened in Rwanda.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: I realize that it's Sunday and that you may not be prepared for next story. But it's so compelling. I would ask you to invest the next three minutes. Twelve years ago, a million people were slaughtered in the African nation of Rwanda. Its people turned on themselves. The story told by Hollywood in "Hotel Rwanda." But CNN's Richard Roth talk an amazing filmmaker trying to make his country move past the horror.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over) The film, "Keepers of Memory" didn't garner the attention the movie "Hotel Rwanda" received. But this raw documentary let's the people of Rwanda, instead of actors, speak for themselves about the horrors endured.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): My family and my in- laws are all here. But it is a place that awakens sadness in all of us.

ROTH: The director, Eric Kabera is an Rwandan, a Tutsi, who was just across the border when the killings began 12 years ago.

ERIC KABERA, FILMMAKER, "KEEPERS OF MEMORY": The heart of this film are the survivors themselves. I talked to the survivors for last 12 years or so.

ROTH: The film shows how a decade later more victims keep turning up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We continue to find the places where the bodies were thrown. We're still digging our people who died in the genocide. There is an open grave for the bodies of those people still being found because the search hasn't ended.

KABERA: The reason behind this film, it sort of comes to you, it speaks to you. Rather than you watching a film for exploration or for understanding of the magnitude of the genocide.

ROTH: The murderers are heard from, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Those who weren't killed by the bullets were clobbered to death. Anybody who was still alive, we went back and killed them. I personally killed three people.

ROTH: The filmmaker, now a father of three, lost family in genocide.

KABERA: I'm literally making it for the people and for myself. One of the ways of exercising (ph) my frustration and my anger and my bitterness.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I was lying in a pool of blood. Because of my thirst, I started licking the pool of blood around me. So I drank the blood. That is why I will never forget my loved ones. That memory is heavy in my heart. Whenever I'm thirsty I always reflect on that moment.

ROTH: I showed Kabera the Security Council, the UN peace and security wing which withdrew peacekeepers from Rwanda when the violence started, despite pleas to come to the rescue.

KABERA: The world failed Rwanda big time. That's the truth of it.

ROTH: But the director says Rwanda now needs help more than ever.

KABERA: Rwanda is gradually recovering. But of course the physical and psychological scars, I mean, are there to stay quite for a while. And, at the end, the country needs to move on. But, how much reparation, how much responsibility the world outside there is sort of giving to Rwanda. Especially to the survivors, literally, because most of these guys can hardly sort of afford their daily meals and hardly afford medicine.

ROTH: Harder to capture on film a legacy of one of the last century's worst genocides.

Richard Roth, CNN, United Nations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: I mentioned "Hotel Rwanda" in the lead-in to the story. There's man whose story that was based on. He saved the lives of 1,200 people. In the next hour, I'm going to talk to him. You're going to hear what he thinks about the situation in war torn countries plus his own personal story. It's great. In the next hour.

In the meantime, tornadoes touching down at a rate of four-times faster than last year. And the forecast doesn't get any better. Up next -- we're going to find out why from the Storm Prediction Center.

And it's a text that 1700 years old. It shows a radically different relationship between Jesus and Judas. Up next, a story you don't want to miss. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. Let's check you up with the head lines. All right. California crews are scrambling to shore-up weak levees. A rainy March has left many rivers and levees overflowing and others are ready to burst. There are 10 more days of rain ahead. And officials are tapping into the state's emergency levee repair fund before the next storm hits.

Mother Nature helps firefighters in Southern Florida. It's raining there. A string of brush fires shut down roads and charred hundreds of acres. The rain is bringing lightning, though, so let's hope that doesn't spark more fires.

Now a price spike at the pumps. Gas prices have jumped 17 cents a gallon in the last two weeks. The national average for a gallon of self-serve gasoline is now $2.67. Industry experts say it's due to seasonal changes and EPA regulations. But prices should begin to fall soon. Now with the debate over the immigration reform. The contentious issue may end up changing nothing. Lawmakers are still blaming one another for the impasse which stalled the legislation in the Senate last week and senators on both sides of the aisle agree the end result may be no immigration reform at all.

Taking a look at the latest pictures there. This is Tennessee cleaning up. Just this weekend alone, 48 tornadoes hit in a 24-hour span. Meteorologist Dan McCarthy is in Norman, Oklahoma at the NOAA Storm Prediction Center. Great to have you, Dan. How do you explain all this or tornadic activity, 400 since January alone?

DAN MCCARTHY, METEOROLOGIST, NOAA STORM PREDICTION CENTER: Well, yes we've had five outbreaks just since March 12th in the last 30 days and it's all contributing to the first of all, warmer than normal winter that we had across the south central and southwestern U.S. and that's bringing that Gulf moisture northward, interacting with storm systems right now.

LIN: So I'm going to bring Bonnie Schneider, our meteorologist at the CNN Weather Center into this conversation. Bonnie, we were talking about this just last night.

SCHNEIDER: Yes we were.

LIN: About the sort of the clash of temperatures creating this tornadic activity. You have any questions for Dan?

SCHNEIDER: Dan, we were talking also about the temperature of the Gulf of Mexico and how that's a little bit warmer than normal and how that's contributing. Can you talk about that?

MCCARTHY: Sure, when that skin temperature of that water is warmer than normal. Usually around 70 degrees. When we get southerly winds ahead of a storm system, those winds bring that moisture into the south plains and the Tennessee Valley-- which brings dew points into the area. So the combination of warm air and moisture helps for bringing those thunderstorms.

SCHNEIDER: And it's such a big a contrast when you have that water temperature above average as we've been seeing this year and now we're not in the peak time of tornado season. Actually that's in May. So where you are working now and where you're working on looking ahead to the projected outlooks going into the next couple of weeks. What are we looking at?

MCCARTHY: Well, we're in the peak time of the season. April, May and June are usually the peak months for tornadoes. And we had two years back in 2003/2004, where we had over 500 tornadoes in May. So we are heading into an even higher time of the year.

LIN: Dan, so if somebody is standing in the path of tornadoes, I and I don't say this lightly. Because we had a lot of video come into the CNN Center yesterday where people were out there with video cameras and then they swung over and other people were just walking around. What should people do? MCCARTHY: Well, I think you start by first of all, monitoring the severe weather outlook that come out of NOAA Storm Prediction Center. I know that CNN shows them and when they are a moderate or high risk I think they need to be aware that severe weather can occur and tornadoes can occur that particular day across their area.

The when a tornado watch is issued in injunction with the weather forecast offices in their areas, they need to heed and watch television or listen to NOAA weather radio to make sure that things are changing and keep aware of the situation. Then when a warning is issue not only for the counties, to the counties to your west, then you need to really take cover. Because that will give you advanced time and preparation.

LIN: And if you're in a car?

MCCARTHY: If you are in a car, there's two things you can do. First of all, get out of your car, and either try to get into a building that's well-protected. Number two you can get into a ditch. If you do that get away from the car, we did have fatalities several years ago in Nebraska where the car rolled over on the people so you need to get out of the car, get away from the car and get into a ditch and protect your head from flying debris.

LIN: Serious business. Dan McCarthy, thank you so much. And we're going to be hearing much more from Bonnie Schneider as she's tracking these storms and also the floods out west.

CNN.com, also CNN.com/weather specifically has lots of stuff about tornadoes and how they form and also how to protect your family.

Now, in Christianity, Judas betrayed Jesus. That's the conventional belief. But did he? Well, a newly translated text offers an intriguing new spin. It suggests Judas was a willing collaborator with Jesus. Our Mary Snow has that story. It first aired in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): It questions the way Jesus died and what's been considered gospel for nearly 2,000 years. Was Judas Iscariot, one of the 12 disciples with Jesus in his final days really a traitor or was he the favorite disciple given a secret as part of a divine plan?

ELAINE PAGELS, "NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC": The Gospel of Judas is a real surprise. It pictures Judas not as the worst villain in the history of the world as he's always been thought of in Christian tradition, but as the one disciple whom Jesus entrusts with secret understanding.

SNOW: That secret understanding, say scholars, is contained in these writings from 300 A.D., and referred to by researches as the Gospel of Judas. The writings reveal Judas handed Jesus over to the authorities because Jesus instructed him to do so as part of a plan for salvation and not for money or because of Satan, as written in the Bible. Why is it only coming to light now? Scholars say the early church considered these secret teachings blasphemy.

PAGELS: Many of these were buried, attacked, challenged, denounced, and this text has just barely survived.

SNOW: The National Geographic Society partnered with scholars to store and translate the battered documents that were found in the desert in Egypt in the 1970s, traded on the antiquities market and the stashed inside a safe deposit box for 16 years in New York before an arts dealer returned them to Europe.

There is skepticism about their content. A Vatican historian calls the Judas gospel quote, "a product of religious fantasy." Other scholars say it changes nothing.

JAMES ROBINSON, CLAREMONT GRADUATE UNIVERSITY: It's an artificial, mythological invention of the second century.

SNOW: The scholars who studied these texts, say whether they're true or not, they add to the understanding of the complexity of Christianity. Mary Snow, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: You can see more of Mary's reporting on THE SITUATION ROOM, Monday through Friday. It starts at 4:00 p.m.

Now, we want to get more reaction to this new text so we invited Father Joseph Veneroso to be with us today. He is out of New York. Father, good to have you.

FR. JOSEPH VENEROSO, MARYKNOLL SOCIETY: Hi, Carol Lin, great to be here.

LIN: Well, let me ask you, what do you think of this text? Did you think this is the real deal? Do you think Judas really did betray Jesus or was he just taking Jesus' orders.

VENEROSO: It's the real deal. We have to ask a real what? It's the real writing of Gnostic branch of the Christianity. So as far as being a gospel like the other gospels, it's not that. However it's insight into early Christianity. When there was a real struggle for the heart and soul of the Christian Church. And who was this Jesus and what happened to him? So it does give us that. And it also gives us a very clear insight into the backdrop against which many of our books from the Bible were written.

LIN: Could you be more specific. When people hear of this, Judas is the symbol of betrayal, worldwide, throughout the millennium. So who was this man? Who was he to Jesus? What was their relationship?

VENEROSO: Well, he certainly was a disciple handpicked by Jesus. We know that and that's always been an intriguing point, why did Judas betray Jesus. And the Gospels say either it's for money. The Gospel of Luke says the devil made him do it. And it has always been a question what was his motivation. Unfortunately, this manuscript doesn't give insight into this. Rather it just said Jesus wanted him to cooperate. Now we have to understand who these Gnostics are, and why they were pitted against what we now call mainline Christianity. They saw each other as being very, very against basically what -- who this Jesus was. The central teaching basically, of Christianity can be boiled down in one line. The Gospel of John, John 1:14 he says the word became flesh. God became human. That drove that Gnostic church crazy. They didn't like creation. They did not like humanity. They thought it was creation, an illusion at best, an evil at worst.

LIN: So because of that inherent conflict, we don't really know whether to believe this latest text, then?

VENEROSO: If you want to bring up heresies - it's the group that the early church first condemned as being heretical.

That means if you believed what the Gnostics believe you're going to live the wrong way. You are going to look at creation as something which is evil. Not going to take creation seriously. You're not going to take humanity seriously. You're not going to take Jesus seriously because we believe Jesus is completely God and completely human.

So, again, it's a time machine of sorts into early Christianity. But it doesn't really stand next to our books of the Gospel.

LIN: You know what's fascinating, father, and I'm sure you must feel this too, that what else could be out there? There could be another secret writing.

VENEROSO: There are. The beginning of Gospel of Luke, many have undertaken to give an account of these things. Not just one or two. There are many. And then at the end of the Gospel of John, be says Jesus said other things that are not recorded this book. And if they were recorded in books the world could not contain them. So, there are many of other manuscripts. They each have to undergo the test of authenticity.

LIN: Father Veneroso, exciting times.

VENEROSO: It is.

LIN: Even though this was written in 100 AD, who knows.

VENEROSO: And let's hope everybody dives into the Gospels and sees for themselves what's going on.

LIN: All right. God bless. Thank you very much, father.

VENEROSO: Thank you. Bye bye.

LIN: Other news now across America. South Florida needs rain. Brush fires are burning from Melbourne to metro Miami and Dade County. Some parts of Florida haven't seen any rain since February.

Republican Senator Arlen Specter says both President Bush and Vice President Cheney should start talking. The issue, their roles in the CIA leak case. Specter chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee. He says Americans should know exactly what happened.

Former Enron boss Jeffrey Skilling says he's looking forward to testifying tomorrow. Skilling and former Enron founder Kenneth Lay face multiple fraud charges after the company's financial implosion five years ago. Skilling says he has nothing to hide. Yet he faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted.

And in entertainment news -- moviegoers are quite warm over "Ice Age 2: The Meltdown." For the second week in a row, the animated feature is the hottest ticket at the box office. Woo!

Now, since its debut last week, the film has earned an estimated $34.5 million and it sure looks fun.

So they're coming to the end of the Masters. This is looking like one to remember. Standing by out there at Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Georgia is CNN's Larry Smith. Larry, are things wrapping up right now?

LARRY SMITH, CNN ANCHOR: Things are getting very close. It's not so much sometimes what you do than what you don't do. Two hours ago we had five-way tie for first place but only one of those golfers has not made a mistake the entire day. His name is Phil Mickelson, and he is getting very close to winning his second Masters green jacket. His second actually in third years and third major of his career. He is at seven under par. Coming down the stretch now on the back nine. A three-shot lead over a host of golfers. Six players right now at four under par, including Tiger Woods, who just birdied 16. So he's now under 4 under par. Tiger, the defending champion and four time Masters titlist, missed two eagle putts here on the back nine.

So he could be at six under par or better but right now at four under par. Can he make up enough ground in the final two holes? It would seem doubtful at this point. Phil Mickelson, really, two years ago when he won his first major here at the masters, was someone that - he was known as the best golfer who had never won a major.

But now since then, possibly his third major now in two years. He will become the first golfer since Tiger Wood in 2002 to win back to back majors. Phil won the PGA at Baltusrol last August and the first man since Sammy Law (ph) back in 1988 to win the Masters after winning the previous week. He was a runaway winner at the BellSouth last week. That's where we stand right now.

Phil Mickelson with four holes to go at a moment. And again, what a great story for lefty to win that $1.26 million check. Most importantly get that second green jacket.

Let's go back to you.

LIN: All right Larry, thanks so much.

Coming up, folks -- we want to show you a world you may not think about. Your parents. It may have to deal with them. The dark world of dementia. Up next, I'm going to show you a program that is helping people understand the debilitating disease firsthand.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: We may be talking about you, caring for an aging parent can be taxing for anyone. That much more difficult if the parent suffers from dementia. Now a virtual dementia tour, an actual recreation that goes on inside that person's mind is providing some much-needed sensitivity training.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LIN (voice-over): The police would come day and night responding to calls about attackers armed with knives or guns but there were no attackers at Lois' Runke's (ph) house. Only those who existed in her elderly mother's deluded mind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would hear somebody in the house. And she would imagine them doing terrible things. Or at one point, and this broke my heart, she felt that there was a cage I was building to put her in.

LIN: The delusions tormenting Lois' 78 year old mother were symptoms of dementia. Her brain is dying. Leaving her in a sometimes violent or blank child-like state. It's more than most families can deal with. Much less understand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that for the elders who have this terrible disease, it's 24/7, even we now know in their dreams.

LIN: P.K. Bebel (ph) is a psychologist and founder of a senior citizen advocate group, Second Win Dreams. She tells nursing homes and families around the country that to understand the dementia patient, you have to experience what they see, feel and hear. She invited me to take what she calls her virtual dementia tour, something she developed after working with dementia and Alzheimer's patients for 20 years.

The dried corn poured in my shoes. And the gloves with fingers taped together are supposed to mimic the pains of arthritis and the limits of age. The goggles, a seniors declining vision The head phones, a cacophony that often fills the dementia patient's mind. With all this I was given a few tasks to accomplished.

(on camera): Am I supposed to match the socks? It's hard to see. That one?

(voice-over): I was so distracted by the noise in my head. I started to feel anxious.

(on camera): I have a hard time picking things up. Oops.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you imagine what it's like for a family member, to have a mom or daddy who has been so active and so vital in this kind of state? And just getting so frustrated they can't get their mom or dad back. LIN (voice-over): She has taken 7,0000 care givers through this exercise which is now being used in many nursing homes, hospitals and medical schools? Lois Runke (ph) also took the tour. She ended up having to put her mother in a home for dementia patients. But now she understands how to coax and encourage her mother through tasks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes realize what a fighter my mom is. Because, she always struggled to maintain her independence. And when you go through the dementia tour, you come to realize how difficult that really is.

LIN: For those who care for the elderly this virtual tour gives them greater understanding. For the dementia patient, the prospect of better and more sympathetic care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN (on camera): It was great doing that story. And I got so much personal feedback about it. Especially from people who are trying to help their parents. So Secondwinddreams.org is the organization that you can look up on the Web and contact them because they travel throughout the country to give these virtual tours.

All right a great story coming up. The prom dress express hits the Gulf Coast. Up next, unique relief supplies for hundreds of high school girls devastated by Katrina.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Some very important relief supplies have arrived now in New Orleans. Not vital, mind you, but needed nonetheless by teenage girls want a date with normalcy.

CNN's Susan Roesgen reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In all of the truckloads of relief supplies shipped down to Gulf Coast after the hurricane. The cargo in this truck not the first thing that hurricane victim would need -- unless you're a teenage girl. This is the prom dress express.

MARISA WEST, DRESS DONOR: Every girl deserves a prom. And I can't imagine not having a prom myself. So, I figured out, we're all same. No matter where we live. We're all 17-year-old, 18-year-old who are girls going through similar things. And I wanted to help.

ROESGEN: In Beltsville, Maryland, Marisa West got her family and friends together, started collecting handbags, dresses, shoes. When word out, shipments came in from all across the country. Their goal was a hundred dresses. They wound up with 10 times that many, so many, the girls of New Orleans formed a human chain to get them inside Cabrini High School. The school has 400 students most lost something and some lost everything in the hurricane. For Shannon Salmon, a pretty pink prom dress almost seemed too frivolous to wish for. But sometimes wishes come true.

SHANNON SALMON, STUDENT: It's so touching because it's going to be so memorable at prom. Just unbelievable. Words can't describe.

ROESGEN: The prom is May 12th. And Marisa West plans to come down from Maryland to see who will glow in her generosity.

Susan Roesgen, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: There is much more ahead on CNN this evening. Coming up at 7:00 remembering the Rwandan genocide. I'm going to speak with a man who has been honored for saving more than 1,000 innocent victims inside Hotel Rwanda. At 8:00 "CNN PRESENTS: Immigration Nation." The debate that's divided the country. At 9:00 Eastern "LARRY KING WEEKEND." Larry's guest tonight is Laci Peterson's stepfather and I'll be back at 10:00 Eastern, tonight a movie trailer that made some people walk out of the theater. We're going to show it to you and talk about the controversy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com