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CNN Live Sunday

Training and Procedures for 911 Dispatchers; Woman's Fight for Family Treasure; Immigrants Nationwide Organize Protests; Inspirational Rwanda Man's Story; Shortage of Medical Caregivers

Aired April 09, 2006 - 18:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Straight ahead in this hour, explosive allegations. Is the U.S. planning to use nuclear weapons against Iran? Find out what the Pentagon is saying.
And a young boy dialed 911, trying to save his mother's life. What happened when the operator accused him of making a prank call?

And a woman's fight for family treasure that turns into a detective story. All that straight ahead.

It's April 9th, you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY. I'm Carol Lin and these are the stories making news right now.

Another wave of immigrant rights rallies and more to come tomorrow, details in just a moment.

And Republican Senator Arlen Specter urges both President Bush and Vice President Cheney to own up. Who said what about leaking classified information? Specter says Americans should know exactly what happened.

An intruder jumps the fence at the White House. President Bush was inside, but secret service agents apprehended the man quickly. He screamed that he was a victim of terrorism and he said he had intelligence to share with the president.

Painful news for motorists, gas prices across the country shot up another 17 cents in past two weeks. The national average now stands at $2.67 a gallon for self-serve regular.

And Christians mark the last days of Christ. Today Pope Benedict XVI led Vatican pilgrims in the annual Palm Sunday celebration.

Iran is front and center this week. U.N. inspectors arrived in Tehran today to examine nuclear facilities. Also, a new report suggests the Bush administration is keeping a military strike on the table. CNN's Elaine Quijano has reaction from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With concerns about Iran's nuclear ambitions growing and diplomatic discussions so far yielding little, one possibility the Bush administration has not ruled out is military action. But that option, say experts is fraught with difficulties. ANTHONY ZINNI, FMR. CENTCOM COMMANDER: We should not fool ourselves to think it will just be a strike and then it will be over. The Iranians will retaliate and they have many possibilities in an area where there are many vulnerabilities from our troop positions to the oil and gas and the region that can be interrupted to a tax on Israel, to the conduct of terrorism.

QUIJANO: The White House insists it is focused on diplomacy, on working with the International Atomic Energy Agency and the United Nations. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw echoed that saying the Bush administration is pursuing a diplomatic solution with Iran, flatly dismissing the negotiation of a U.S. military strike.

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: It isn't on the agenda. I believe it's not on the agenda and they're very committed indeed to resolving this issue, which is a complicated issue by negotiation and, yes, by diplomatic pressure.

QUIJANO: But investigative journalist, Seymour Hersh, writes in "The New Yorker" magazine, that according to a single unnamed source, the White House wants to keep not only a military operation on the table, but a nuclear option.

SEYMOUR HERSH, WRITER, "THE NEW YORKER": That doesn't mean it's going to happen. They refuse take it out and what I'm writing here is that if this isn't removed, and I say this very seriously, I've been around this town for 40 years, some senior officers are prepared to resign.

STRAW: The idea of a nuclear strike on Iran is completely nuts.

QUIJANO: And a Pentagon spokesman would only say, quote, "Sy Hers has a single anonymous source who is not in government and both Hersh and the source have made fantastic, unverified, and wrong allegations before."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Now a senior administration official, while not denying the story outright, said people seeking to draw broad conclusions based on normal military contingency planning are quote, "ill informed or not knowledgeable about the administration's thinking" -- Carol.

LIN: Elaine, thank you.

Now the battle over immigration. Tomorrow, major demonstrations are planned nationwide. Today was a preview of sorts. Thousands marched in Dallas with many dressed in white and waving American flags. In Salt Lake City, thousands of people marched toward the Utah state capital. And migrant farm workers pressed for immigration reform in Oxnard, California. They joined with union leaders to honor the late Cesar Chavez.

In Tucson, Arizona, today, though, immigration opponents burned a Mexican flag. All right, we just lost those pictures there, but the event was attended by a small number of people who spoke out against illegal Mexican immigrants.

All right, much more ahead on this subject as well.

And we want to tell you about a border state senator who says illegal immigrants should not be granted citizenship. Republican Jon Kyl of Arizona spoke today with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: My view is that people who have broken our law, come into the country illegally have every right to participate in a temporary worker program, but that there is no need to say to them, we're going make you citizens of the United States of America. And that for the future, a temporary worker program that might be useful to supply labor needs in our country, when they exist, should be exactly that, temporary, so that when the work is not available for them, you haven't turned them into permanent legal residents and thereby created a situation where you have foreign worker here, but no job for them.

JAIME CONTRERAS, IMMIGRANTS RIGHTS ACTIVIST: We encourage the Congress to continue to work hard on this issue. It's a very important issue that affects millions and millions of people. We're not so disappointed because now that they went back home, on Monday, we're going to make sure they get a nice warm welcome if they have been good, if not, we'll remind that we're a force reckon with and we're more than 44 million strong in this country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Senate Republican Arlen Specter says he'll have a proposal ready when Congress reconvenes from its Easter recess. A highly proposed compromise fell apart Friday, just a day after members announced it.

Take a look at this, salvaging what they can, people in Tennessee are starting to clear the debris from the thunderstorms and tornadoes that killed 12 people. A dust to dawn curfew is in effect in Gallatin, one of the hardest-hit areas. Now, fortunately no one died, but certainly plenty of destruction in north Georgia that's where a line of storms went after hitting Tennessee. Georgia's insurance commissioner says it may be the most expensive disaster in years.

Now, take a look at this. If it's not one thing it's another. Wildfires in Florida -- south Florida, hundred of acres have burned. Officials have ordered some evacuations and some roads closed.

Let's check in with Bonnie Schneider at the CNN Weather Center.

Bonnie, it looks like there's a little bit of everything -- fire and rain.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I know. And then after the tornadoes came through he had frost advisories posted early this morning for some areas where temperatures got much colder as the result of that colder air coming in from the north. (WEATHER REPORT)

LIN: All right, a lot of red on that map, Bonnie. All right, thanks very much.

SCHNEIDER: Yeah.

LIN: In the meantime, a cry for help goes unanswered.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ROBERT TURNER, CALLED 911: (INAUDIBLE)

DISPATCHER: I don't care, you shouldn't be playing on the phone. Now put her on the phone before I send the police out there to knock on the door and you gonna be in trouble.

ROBERT: Ugh! (HANGS UP)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LIN: A mother dead because an emergency operator didn't believe a young boy's 911 call.

And genocide and terror grip a country. If it was your home, would you have been able to help? I'm going to speak to one man who did and saved more than a thousand lives.

And they seem to be everywhere -- Gruppies. So, what are they?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The city of Detroit is investigating serious allegations against one of its 911 operators. The family of a 6-year-old boy says he's called 911 for help when his mother collapsed. CNN's Fredricka Whitfield picks up story from here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): One afternoon in February, 5-year-old Robert turner found his mother unconscious in their Detroit apartment.

TURNER: Then I had to feel her tummy. She wasn't breathing. And I had -- I had called 911 tell them that send emergency truck right now.

WHITFIELD: But the 911 dispatcher didn't take Robert seriously.

DISPATCHER: Emergency 911, what's the problem?

TURNER: My mom has passed out.

DISPATCHER: Where's the grownups at?

DISPATCHER: Let me speak to her. Let me speak to her before I send the police over there.

WHITFIELD: The police were not sent. Some three hours later, Robert called again with the same result.

TURNER: (INAUDIBLE)

911: I don't care, you shouldn't be playing on the phone. Now put her on the phone before I send the police out there to knock on the door and you gonna be in trouble.

ROBERT: Ugh! (HANGS UP)

TURNER: When police finally arrived at 9:22 p.m., they found 46- year-old Sherrill Turner dead. The family has now planning a wrongful death lawsuit against Detroit police.

ELAINE PATTERSON, ROBERT TURNER'S SISTER: This was a child calling. There was no laughter, and he repeated what he was saying.

TYRONE PATTERSON, VICTIM'S SON-IN-LAW: Everyone should be trained to treat every situation as an emergency. People do not just call 911 as a joke, "My mom has passed out." The message was clear.

WHITFIELD: The union that represents dispatchers says about a quarter of all 911 calls are pranks.

KIMBERLY HARRIS, LOCAL UNION PRESIDENT: That dispatcher could have had five prank calls, kids calling prior to that call. And police don't, you know, think that I'm trying to make an excuse. You know, that was a tragedy.

WHITFIELD: The dispatcher who took the second call, an 18 year veteran, remains on the job.

HARRIS: I know that dispatcher. I know she is a very good dispatcher. She is very thorough.

WHITFIELD: Detroit police say the department is investigating the handling of the calls. For Robert, now 6, the rights and wrongs of the case are less important than the sadness he feels.

TURNER: Every time somebody talk about her, I just bust out and start crying.

WHITFIELD: Fredricka Whitfield CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Scott Freitag is president of the National Academy of Emergency Dispatch. He joins me live out of Salt Lake City to talk about 911 dispatch training and procedures. Scott, good to have you.

You were shaking your head.

SCOTT FREITAG, PRESIDENT, NAED: Good to be here. LIN: When we were talking about the story and letting the audience know we were going to be giving them the full report on it, you were shaking your head -- why.

FREITAG: Boy, this is such a tragic situation, 911 dispatchers are there to save lives and they save lives every single day. Listening to this tape, the dispatcher certainly did not do what she was supposed to do or trained to do.

LIN: Now why -- was there any indication there was a prank tone in this little boy's call for help? Did you hear anything?

FREITAG: Well, just listening to the tape myself, that little boy was calling for help. His mother was in serious trouble and the dispatchers are trained to trust the caller. And if you have a child calling and saying that their mother is sick, their mother is sick.

LIN: The dispatcher's union said in that piece, the dispatchers union says well look, that dispatcher could have gotten four or five prank calls before she took that call. She admitted that was not an excuse, but it could be some kind of an explanation. Is that acceptable to you?

FREITAG: No, it really isn't. The bottom line here is that we have got a lady that lost her life and a child that tried to call 911 to get help for his own mother. Dispatchers are considered to be the first, first responder. That means that they need to provide help over the telephone. They need to listen careful through what is being told to them. But most importantly, even if you had nine prank calls all day long, that tenth one is going to be real but treat them all as though they're real.

LIN: So, what do you think should happen to this dispatcher, because this dispatcher is still on the job, still on the payroll.

FREITAG: Well, unfortunately there is no national requirement for certain types of training for dispatchers, although there should be. As a National Academy of Emergency Dispatch, we certify and train thousands of dispatchers every year and one of the initial parts of that training is to listen to the caller and take for granted what they're saying. This dispatcher obviously made a mistake. And it is important, I guess, to look at what the training is of those dispatchers in Detroit, what their policies and procedures are. But it's just hard to understand, it's pretty clear in our mind, it's hard to understand why she didn't send the help that she even threatened to send when she thought it was a prank.

LIN: So, there's nothing that can be done. It's strictly up to the agency involved, whether -- what happened to her, whether she's suspend or penalized in any way?

FREITAG: Yeah. This needs to serve as a lesson, not only to this city, but every other city that operates a 911 center to make sure that you're training your dispatchers appropriately, that they're using protocol that they follow every time regardless of the caller, their age or the hysterical nature of that, if they're following a protocol they've been given and quality improvement, making sure that you're following up with your dispatchers on a regular basis. This is an example of one of those things that didn't work like it was supposed to.

LIN: Scott Freitag, thank you for your time for your time. A life loss, perhaps an expensive lesson to learn out there. Appreciate it.

Right now here is a look at the stories making news "Across America" tonight. The alleged architect of Enron's financial house of cards is set to take the stand tomorrow. Former executive Jeffrey Skilling says he's looking forward to defending himself. He and Enron founder, Kenneth Lay, face numerous counts of fraud in connection with the company's collapse.

This mudslide in Amador County, California has put a pinch on the local water supply. The slide damaged a canal between a nearby river and a water treatment plant. Until the canal is fixed, the local water agency is asking everyone to conserve.

And chock up another first place box office finish for "Ice Age 2: The Meltdown." The animated sequel debuted last week as the No. 1 silver screen draw and did it again this week. It's already earned an estimated $34 million.

As bird flu triggers fear across the globe, a new report says there aren't enough doctors and nurses for our current health needs. Can anything be done?

And just ahead, valuable art becomes the subject of a court battle. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: An exhibition at the Los Angeles county museum of art has special significance for a California woman, it is an exhibition of her family treasures and the tangible evidence that good triumphs over evil. Here is Kareen Wynter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An iconic Austrian artwork, reportedly worth hundreds of millions of dollars, on display for the first time in the United States at a Los Angeles museum, following a lengthy legal battle.

MARIA ALTMAN, OWNER OF PAINTINGS: I'm not a forceful person, but I like to follow through when I start something.

WYNTER: Ninety-year-old Maria Altman survived a Nazi invasion of Austria in 1938, but left behind precious family heirlooms: jewelry, porcelain figurines and paintings stolen during the occupation. Altman recalled how the Germans looted her uncle's home, taking five paintings by Austrian artists Gustav Klimt, the most famous this portrait of Altman's aunt, Adel. ALTMAN: A huge truck pulled up and just emptied everything that was in that house.

WYNTER: Altman, a then newlywed, says her family fled Austria three years later and relocated to California. Unaware of how valuable the paintings were, and that they ended up in an Austrian government gallery. That's until 1998 when an Austrian reporter began tracing the artwork's history, triggering a fierce fight to reclaim them.

HUBERTUS CZERIN, AUSTRIAN JOURNALIST: The fate of the family, the fate of the paintings, I think nobody knew it.

WYNTER: Austria refused to return the paintings, claiming they were willed to its national museum.

RANDOL SCHOENBERG, ALTMAN ATTORNEY: I think it was a willing ignorance they had that they could hide behind this sort of legalistic argument of the will.

WYNTER: The Supreme Court reviewed the case in 2004 and ruled Altman could sue the Austrian government in American courts. The family knew it was a long shot, but their attorney began mediations with Austria. Altman was blown away by the ruling.

ALTMAN: I could not imagine that three Austrian judges who were paid by the government would speak unanimously against the government and they did.

WYNTER: Maria Altman says she never imagined she would see this day, the culmination of a seven year fight for what was rightfully hers.

ALTMAN: I wish came true.

WYNTER: The Klimt paintings are on display until June and they'll be up for sale, the price and perspective buyers still under wraps.

ALTMAN: I know one thing, I won't hang them in my house.

Reporter: Kareen Wynter, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: He's been described by others as a hero for saving more than a thousand lives, but he calls himself ordinary. You're going to meet him and you decide.

And then does the world have enough doctor and nurses to win a fight against bird flu or any other global epidemic? You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Here is a look what's happening right now in the news. A massive rally in the lone star state -- protesters in Dallas, Texas, urged lawmakers to pass immigration legislation that could legalize millions of undocumented workers in the U.S.

Inspectors for the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency arrived in Iran today. Members of the International Atomic Energy Agency want to get a handle on Iran's uranium conversion facility.

And Iraqi freedom day was marred by violence across the country. Iraq's new government designated to the day to commemorate the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, but attacks left dozens of Iraqis dead or wounded.

All right, good news, bad news on gas prices front. The bad, well most of you know, but prices jumped 17 cents in the past two weeks. The good news is that experts say prices should begin to fall again soon.

Fire crews battling brushfires in south Florida are hoping for a little relief. The area is getting some much need rain today. Fires are burning from Melbourne to metro Miami and Dade County.

Sometimes there are stories and no matter where in the world they happen they grab your attention. This is one of those stories. It happened thousands of miles from where you live in Rwanda, 12 years ago, almost a million people were murdered, brutally murdered in just about 100 days and the world did little to stop it. CNN Africa correspondent Jeff Koinange looks back at the horror and we want to warn you, these images are powerful and maybe difficult to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEN. ROMEO DALLAIRE, FMR. U.N. COMMANDER: The devil exists, he came to paradise and he took over. They were no more human. Those eyes were not eyes of human beings during that, they were the devil.

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN AFRICA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What retired U.N. General Romeo Dalliare is referring to is the horror he witnessed in Rwanda in the spring of 1994.

DALLAIRE: It was cold, it was callous, and it was real.

KOINANGE: A dozen years later, the scars of genocide are everywhere here. This is the picturesque village of Inharama (ph), a two-hour drive outside the capital Kigali.

In this mostly Christian country, churches like this were often seen as the ultimate sanctuaries of peace and security. But that was not to be. The Interahamwe entered the building and began to massacre the helpless worshipers. By the time the orgy of killing was over, more than 5,000 Tutsis laid dead and scattered across the church's benches and even on the altar.

In the sleepy town of Kibuye in the country's west, Madeline Mukarimira hasn't attended a church service in a dozen years. Going to church, she says, brings back painful memories of a past she would rather forget. "God was absent the day the killings began," she says, "God forgot about Rwanda." The green hills of Kickomgoro (ph) in the east bare some of the deepest scars of the genocide. Thousands of Tutsis were lured into this technical school by Hutu officials with promises of safe haven from the Hutu extremists.

Locals estimate more than 50,000 Tutsis were killed here. Most were left to rot in these killing fields. Only after the Interahamwe were driven from the country by the Rwandan patriotic front or RPF, were the bodies exhumed.

They were sprinkled with limestone dust for preservation and placed inside these classrooms. The result, a macabre memorial where the stench of death still lingers and pain still frozen on the victim's faces. Like this man, seemingly trying to defend himself from an ax blow. Or this woman shielding her face from a machete.

"They used to take babies by the leg and slam them against the walls right in front of their mothers," says genocide survivor Emanuel Murangira (ph). Even more than a decade later, children living in the area are warned to stay away from these classrooms where they are told, horrible things happened.

And it is the same in city after city, scenes of unspeakable horror. Like this Catholic church in Namata (ph), two hours outside Kigali. The Interahamwe forced their way inside the compound with grenades and Kalashnikovs.

When their ammunition was exhausted, they began slaughtering the innocent, using clubs, axes, even bows and arrows and leaving thousands dead. A recent exhumation of scores of bodies adds to the already rancid smell inside the church.

A dozen years later, a nation continues to bury its dead, in memorials like this, just completed across the nation. This one in the capital Kigali, is the largest, more than a quarter of a million remains so far recovered and there could be many more.

Each of these coffins bears the remains of anywhere from 25 to 50 victims, unearthed in swamps, pit latrines and even in open fields. Eventually all the victims will have names, names inscribed on this wall, never to be forgotten. Romeo Dallaire too says the world must never forget what happened here on that horrible April morning in 1994.

DALLAIRE: The world has has blood on its hands. Every one of them has blood on it and they will never wash it off. And the aim is, and certainly my ambitions have been since then, is to make damn sure that nobody lets the Rwandan genocide die.

KOINANGE: More than a decade after the genocide, Rwandans are only just beginning to stumble out of their collective nightmare. But perhaps the agonies of the past will only be truly buried when Rwanda's children, those who did not witness history, grow up. Jeff Koinange, CNN, Johannesburg.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Sadly little has changed since the Rwandan genocide. The world is still saddled by terrorism and violence. So can one person make a difference? One did in Rwanda. Paul Rusesabagina was a hotel manager in Rwanda, who sheltered more than a thousand refugees. He risked his life. His story inspired the movie "Hotel Rwanda." But there he is in Washington right now. Paul, good to have you.

PAUL RUSESABAGINA, AUTHOR: It is a pleasure.

LIN: You wrote a book, "Ordinary Man." You are not an ordinary man. How could you come to title your story that way?

RUSESABAGINA: Actually many people were just perceiving me the way I'm not. They were trying to take me up where I am, taking me as an extraordinary man since I'm an ordinary man who did only his duties and obligations. I had to write that, to call my book, "An Ordinary Man."

LIN: What kept you going, Paul?

RUSESABAGINA: Well, I always believed that we -- one day we will die, all of us. Even that day, that time, I was sure that was going to be killed. That was the only thing I was sure of, to be killed. So what kept me to be going was to say that -- led me away from a day. When I'm waiting, while I'm waiting, I always have to do something before I die.

LIN: And 1,200 people, by one count you saved their lives. You let them live at your hotel. You even negotiated with the killers. What did you have to trade that you could save their lives?

RUSESABAGINA: Well, I had some weapons -- I can call them weapons. I had a working phone. My phone was still working. Even when our phones were cut off, that was April 26th, when a journalist was in the hotel, took a phone and started describing how the rebels were advancing and the army losing, our switchboard was cut off.

But I had another phone which was in our secretary's office, not linked to the main switchboard. I just started using that one as my main weapon.

But I also, you know, in life, I believe that -- I believe in the power of words. Whoever can come, sit down with you, talk with you, you always can come up with a very positive solution. Each and every hurt, even the hardest hurt has got always a very small point, very small part of it, you can always play around with it. And this is what I did. I believe in powers of words and I used words.

LIN: And there were some words, actually a secret you kept when you tried to evacuate your family, your wife and your children. You put them on a U.N. truck. They thought you were coming with them. But it wasn't until that truck pulled away and the scene was depicted in the movie, that they realized that you were going to stay behind. That must have broke your heart. RUSESABAGINA: I took that decision on May the 2nd. On May the 2nd when the first release to exchange refugees with us, refugees who in the national cities -- controlled by the rebels, that day all my family members names came almost first on the list.

So when I saw -- when they saw them many refugees came to me and told me, "Listen, Paul, we know that you're leaving tomorrow. And since you are the only person who so far can sit down with militia men and the soldiers and negotiate with them, if you happen to leave, we are surely going to be killed. Tell us, are you really leaving? If you are leaving, we are going to the roof of the hotel, jump, and die, because there is no way we cannot afford to be tortured."

Killers were torturing their victims. Cutting a leg, going and coming back after maybe three or four hours, cutting another one, a hand, and so on and so forth.

So I told them, "Listen my friends, I'm not leaving." That day I had made the toughest decision I have ever made in my life, to send my wife and remain behind. I went to the room, we sat down, discussed it over and then we came up with an argument.

The following day I helped my wife and children. I escorted them to the truck, help them going, getting into the truck. There is nothing I have never, ever heard in my life, in my heart, as heart breaking as that experience I went through that day of May 3rd in the evening when those people -- being evacuated and unfortunately felt in the numbers.

LIN: But all -- but your wife and your kids returned to you safely and your story is told today. And Paul, we can only take inspiration from your story, that any one of us in the same situation would do what you did and the sacrifice you made. I want to thank you for being with us today.

RUSESABAGINA: You're welcome, thank you.

LIN: Paul Rusesabagina.

All right, what can be done to overcome a worldwide shortage of doctors and nurses? And have you got what it takes to be a Gruppy? Stay tuned to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right, let's check some of the highlights from the Sunday talk shows. The "New Yorker's" Seymour Hersh reports the White House may be planning a nuclear strike on Iran. Hersh quotes unidentified sources who said the target would be Iran's nuclear facilities. A White House official calls the report ill informed. Now Hersh appeared on CNN's "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEYMOUR HERSH, NEW YORKER: He absolutely thinks, as I wrote, that he's the only one now who has the courage to do it. He's politically free. I don't think he's overwhelmingly concerned about the '06 elections, congressional elections. I think he really thinks he has a chance and this is going to be his mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: On "FOX News Sunday," Republican Senator Arlen Specter. He said it is time for the White House to clear the air about its handling of intelligence leaks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), CHMN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I think that it is necessary for the president and the vice president to tell the American people exactly what happened. Brit, I think too often we jump to conclusions before we know what all of the facts are. I'm not about to condemn or criticize anybody, but I do say that there has been enough of a showing here with what has been filed of record in court that the president of the United States owes a specific explanation to the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: NBC's "Meet The Press," two veteran members of Congress offered two very different views on the issue of illegal immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: They're part of the fabric of our society. And they're necessary to the economic well being of our country. So let's include them. I agree enforcement is key and security is key. But let's do it comprehensively. Let's have a holistic approach to this.

REP. J.D. HAYWORTH (R), ARIZONA: The fact is the 14th amendment was passed and ratified by the states to guarantee citizenship for freed slaves, not the children of foreigners and we need to take a realistic look at the notion of birth right citizenship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: And on CBS's "Face the Nation," financial troubles for General Motors. G.M. boss Richard Wagner talked about the possibility that the government may bail out the company.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD WAGNER, PRESIDENT, GENERAL MOTORS: Some of the other ideas that have come forth: bail outs, bankruptcies. These are not good ideas. They aren't good for our consumers. They aren't good for the people that count on us for our contributions to the economy. They're not the right thing for our business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Remember, every Sunday at 7:45 Eastern, CNN's going to bring you the top headlines from the Sunday talk show circuit. Well it's a classic case of the haves and the have nots. And depending where you are, it could mean the difference between life and death. We're talking about the worldwide shortage of medical caregivers.

Joining us live from New York is Dr. Howard Zucker. He is the assistant director general with the World Health Organization. Good to have you, Dr. Zucker. Give me an idea of how bad -- how big a shortage is there globally?

DR. HOWARD ZUCKER, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: Well the problem is greatest where the need is greatest. And the situation right now, as the WHO report has shown, is that there are about 57 countries in the world, primarily in Asia and Africa, where there are not enough health care workers. And that comes up to about four million -- little over four million individuals -- health care worker that are lacking in the area.

LIN: So when you talk about that kind of deficit, how does it impact Americans?

ZUCKER: Well the situation is that disease right now is something which we recognize in the world as a global issue. And that many diseases begin sometimes in the developing world and they spread to the developed world.

LIN: Well look at bird flu.

ZUCKER: Well that is something which we are concerned about. And obviously that is something where we worry that the greatest -- the greatest barrier to the spread of communicable diseases or one of the greatest barriers is actually a strong health care workforce.

LIN: So just to kind of bring it home, because CNN is really emphasizing its coverage on bird flu: the consequences, the origin and when it might get to the United States.

If you don't have a front line of defense in these countries where bird flu has been identified, does that mean that an epidemic of that sort moves that much faster?

ZUCKER: Well I think it's not just the issues of bird flu, but the issues of all concerns with communicable diseases. The individuals in the developing world are suffering as a result of not enough health care workers, whether it is a result of HIV, AIDS, malaria, tuberculosis, all the different diseases. And obviously you bring up the issue of bird flu or any of the other communicable diseases. And it is important to have individuals on the front line to protect all people across the globe.

LIN: Absolutely, of course not just Americans. And it was shocking to read in this report that something like 800,000 children died of communicable diseases in Africa alone?

ZUCKER: That is correct, that is correct. And in sub-Sahara Africa right now, there is a marked shortage of health care workers. As a matter of fact, the 25 percent of the global health burden is in that area.

But only three percent of the health workers are in that area. So we really do have to grab that area up, and that was part of the objective of that report.

LIN: And within the report, there say plan of action. What is at the core of that plan?

ZUCKER: Well, No. 1 is that health care workers do save lives. And the nations must figure out a work plan for the individuals in their country.

We have to work on relationships, bilateral agreements between nations to look at how to decrease the amount of doctors and nurses and health professionals leaving countries to go more developed world.

LIN: Well that's cause that's where the money is and the opportunity. That's the perception.

ZUCKER: Well, that is correct. And part of the problem is that the developing nations have to look at how to pay the health professionals more, how to provide for a better environment there, and to also provide the resources there.

LIN: Got to be priority. Dr. Zucker, thank you very much.

ZUCKER: Pleasure to be here, thank you.

LIN: Time now to check the world headlines. Shanon's been working on that.

SHANON COOK, CNN INTERNATIONAL: Hey there. We've got some information about Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president. Hugo Chavez is basically at it again, Carol. He's becoming a regular thorn in the side of the White House and his latest ploy isn't likely to win him any fans.

Mr. Chavez is threatening to expel the U.S. ambassador from Caracas. He blames the ambassador, that's William Brownfield, for a recent incident where protesters chased the envoy's car and threw food at it. It was captured on video. And here you can actually see eggs being pelted at the car, at the back of the car. The camera was inside the car.

Chavez says Brownfield is partly to blame, since Brownfield didn't advise authorities of his travel plans. And in an address today, Chavez said he'll throw him out of Venezuela if he continues, quote, "provoking the Venezuelan people."

All right, to Pakistan now where what was supposed to be a very peaceful religious gathering turned deadly. Thousands of worshipers were filing out of a mosque in Karachi when witnesses say a girl fell down. That triggered massive panic, a stampede. At least 30 people died in the crush. All of those were women and children.

And to Europe now, or not to Europe now. There are some elections happening in Italy today, Carol. But I think we might be out of time to talk about them.

LIN: All right. Yes, that's right. Berlusconi had a visit to the United States and President Bush gave him an opportunity to speak before Congress. So we'll see whether that appearance at the White House mattered to the Italians.

COOK: Absolutely.

LIN: Thanks, Shanon.

COOK: Thank you.

LIN: All right, are you ready to find out what a Grup is? Well, or a Grup? I think it's Grup. We're going to show you in about two minutes. And then, "CNN PRESENTS: Immigrant Nation." Are illegal workers stealing jobs or are they energizing the U.S. economy? The ongoing debate tonight on "CNN PRESENTS."

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LIN: At first, when somebody told me the title of this next story, I thought they said "grumpy." No, no, it is Gruppy. It's a whole group of people that A.J. Hammer is reporting on because they may affect what happens next in the next generation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

A.J. HAMMER, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Ipod, check, canvas nap sack, check. Trendy clothes, check. Lots of free time on their hands, checks.

We're not talking about college kids, we're talking about whole generation of people that are taking the country by storm. It's a generation of 30-somethings who won't grow up. They are living life as if they are still in their 20s.

"New York" Magazine has defined them as Gruppies so "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" producer Jenny D'Attoma hit the streets today to see if she could find any of them. Our first potential Gruppy wasn't too sure if she was indeed a Gruppy, but we asked her some important questions.

D'ATTOMA: So what kind of Gruppy tendencies do you already see that you have?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know what an official Gruppy.

JENNY D'ATTOMA, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT PRODUCER: What kind of music? What kind of music do you listen to?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm indie rock kind of person.

D'ATTOMA: There you go, you are on your way to being a Gruppy.

HAMMER: Great, one happy Gruppy in progress. So we moved on to someone else who we thought was a real life Gruppy. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I go to the gym every day. And do you put moisturizers and, you know, you buy good jeans, do all the things to stay young.

HAMMER: So far, so good.

D'ATTOMA: Has anyone ever said to you, you act too immature, you don't act your age?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I always act mature.

HAMMER: He might not be a Gruppy but we pressed on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is a Gruppy?

D'ATTOMA: It's a new term.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does it mean?

D'ATTOMA: It means someone that doesn't act your age.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh that, no, no.

HAMMER: Well maybe he's just pretending he's not a Gruppy. We asked him some more pointed questions.

D'ATTOMA: Do you work full time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

D'ATTOMA: You do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

D'ATTOMA: I don't know if you're a Gruppy then.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I work full time, I have my own business, and I have people I tell what to do.

HAMMER: OK, so he's not a Gruppy. But we did find someone, a 20-something in fact who was familiar with this new generation and he freely admitted that he is right on target.

D'ATTOMA: Do you see yourself being a Gruppy at some point?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Totally, I'm on track. I'm a beginner Grup, number two.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: I guess it is something to aspire to. I think I'll stick to grumpy. There's still much more ahead on CNN. Next, "CNN PRESENTS: Immigrant Nation, Divided Country." Are illegal immigrants stealing American jobs or energizing the economy?

Then at 9:00 p.m., "LARRY KING LIVE," an exclusive interview with Laci Peterson's stepfather. His first interview since Scott Peterson was sentenced to death for killing his wife and unborn child.

And then at 10:00, the first movie to take on the events of September 11th, United 93. Today the debate is not over about the movie itself or even the trailer promoting it. The hour's headlines when I come back.

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