Return to Transcripts main page

Your World Today

French Government Backs Down on Youth Employment Plan; First Exit Polls in Italy: Prodi Coalition Slightly Ahead; Mass Immigration Demonstrations Across U.S.

Aired April 10, 2006 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: On second thought, it doesn't look as though France is going ahead with that controversial jobs law which led to so much protest after all.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Psychological warfare or real plans? There are reports the Pentagon is secretly considering how to wipe out Iran's nuclear program, including with the nuclear option. But some call that suggestion nuts

CLANCY: And a day for action for immigrants in the United States as Congress is struggling over reform legislation. Many say they want rights now.

It's 7:30 p.m. in Tehran, high noon here in Atlanta.

I'm Jim Clancy.

GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani.

Welcome to our viewers throughout the world and the United States.

And this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CLANCY: Street protests may have power. That's being assessed on both sides of the Atlantic this day. It was a law that most of the French didn't really want and many of them did admittedly did not understand it.

Now, after weeks of student and labor protests, France has withdrawn that controversial jobs law that was aimed specifically at young people. A new plan to combat the double-digit unemployment has been drawn up. It is now before the parliament.

Jim Bittermann has the latest for us from Paris.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): After weeks of stubbornly trying to reform one element of French employment laws, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin threw in the towel. As he left a breakfast meeting with Jacques Chirac, the president's office was already putting out the word that the controversial first job contract law was dead and being replaced by a 150-million-year-old jobs program to help disadvantaged young people. Minutes later, Villepin was on television explaining he was really only trying to help and that his intentions were misunderstood.

DOMINIQUE DE VILLEPIN, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I wanted to act quickly because the dramatic situation and the despair of many youths demanded it. I wanted to offer a strong solution, because I believe that only a better balance between more flexibility for the employer and more security for workers would help us cut unemployment in our country. This was not understood by everyone and I regret it.

BITTERMANN: In fact, about two-thirds of the country didn't understand Villepin's attempt at reform. Among them, student groups who were the first to declare victory.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Considering the new show of force that exists today, we want to see how we can profit from this show of force which is in our favor to bring about new victories.

BITTERMANN: But not all may be so ready for more victories like the one led by the students. Nearly two months of demonstrations interrupted studies at many universities and high schools, at times disrupted transportation, and in the end, demonstrated how difficult economic reform can be here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BITTERMANN: And Jim, as for Chirac and Villepin, their approval ratings are now down to 25 percent, and there's still 13 months until the next elections here and still plenty of time for those in the streets to once again try to bring about or stop change -- Jim.

CLANCY: As much as the politicians may like to talk about reform, is reform really now out the window? Because, as you say, there are upcoming elections.

BITTERMANN: Well, exactly. I think right now, in terms of any further attempts at changing the way the economic rules work here, I don't think we're going to see any further attempts. It would take a very daring politician, indeed, in the wake of what's happened over the last two months here to try that.

So I think we've probably seen that kind of thing dead in the water for the moment. In fact, I doubt that you will see many initiatives upcoming, because I think there's always this feeling now that perhaps something will trigger further problems in the streets and further problems for the governing majority.

CLANCY: You take a look at the numbers, Dominique de Villepin, the prime minister, down about, what, 20 percentage points or more in popularity? All the way down to, as you say, about a 25 percent -- 28 percent, I think, for the prime minister himself. And a lot of French have to be asking themselves the question, just who is in charge of their country? Because it doesn't look like it's the politicians. It looks like it's the people on the streets.

BITTERMANN: Well, in fact, that's exactly what the appearance is. And like I said, there's 13 months until the next elections here.

Yes, I would say that Dominique de Villepin's plummet from the heights has been truly spectacular. Just before Christmas, his approval rating was something around 50 percent, and it's half that now just over this issue, mainly over this issue. And, I mean, he likes to point out, and he pointed out again today, even as he was withdrawing this controversial jobs bill, that basically he was trying to help, that the whole jobs creation scheme that he came up with, this first jobs contract for young people, was coming out of the riots that took place here in November.

Basically, that scheme was to help young people, particularly in the suburbs. Now what they replaced it with in order to get this off the table, what they have replaced it with is basically a job creation scheme that -- that is going to pump money in to providing jobs and job support for disadvantaged young people.

CLANCY: All right. Jim Bittermann, the view from Paris -- Hala.

GORANI: Now the view from Italy. Exit polls there. Parliamentary elections predicting a major blow to the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi.

These are preliminary and unofficial results, but if confirmed, the center left opposition candidate, Romano Prodi, could be Italy's next prime minister. Romano Prodi is the only person to have beaten Berlusconi at the ballot box. But in 1996, his government only lasted two years before it was brought down by disgruntled communist allies.

Prodi's coalition consists of moderate Christian Democrats, greens, liberals and some former communists. An alliance with widely differing political philosophies. Prodi has said he would bring Italian troops home from Iraq as soon as possible.

Rome Bureau Chief Alessio Vinci is live with the latest -- Alessio.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Hala.

I have a very important -- important update to give you, because Italian television has just broadcast another projection of the vote which slightly changes the results of the election so far. And that is that in the upper house of parliament in the Senate, the lead that the center left coalition of Mr. Prodi has narrowed now to a percentage below the margin of error.

That means that as of now, according to projections and opinion polls, and only 15 percent of the ballots counted, the center left coalition now holds a 50.4 lead over a 48.6 percent for the center right coalition. Meaning that right now, including -- if we take into consideration the margin of error, the center left coalition may not have a clear majority in the upper house of parliament.

In the lower house of parliament, where the center left coalition had a 4 percentage lead, that, according to -- there is no -- so no change there. So it's very important to treat those results with extreme caution. Extreme caution. They have changed slightly. Only 15 percent of the votes have been counted so far, so we have to be very careful about projecting Mr. Prodi as the next Italian prime minister.

GORANI: Absolutely. And we will treat these results very carefully. But let's assume that there is a split decision, that the upper house is not won by the center left coalition and the lower house is. What happens in Italy then?

VINCI: It's the nightmare scenario, Hala. The nightmare scenario. This country is not ready for a grand coalition similar to the one that is taking place -- that took place in Germany after the vote there.

Two options, basically.

On the one side, both coalitions agree to go back to the polls, or, perhaps, most importantly, there will be a so-called technocrat government, a transitional government, perhaps, led by a nonpolitical figure until new elections can be called. A grand coalition is highly, highly unlikely, considering especially the ugly political campaign and the divisions between the center left and the center right coalitions.

And considering, of course, the fact that even within those two coalitions there are political parties who view things very differently. So I really, really doubt that if it should come to that, if indeed the final result will be a tie, I really, really believe that it will be basically impossible to form a grand coalition, and the Italians eventually will have to go through a new election, perhaps after a few months of a caretaker government.

GORANI: All right. With only 15 percent of the votes counted, still unclear whether or not it's a clean sweep.

Alessio Vinci, we'll be going back to you for more on the latest there from Italy. Thanks very much -- Jim.

CLANCY: Tragedy in India. Fire sweeping through a large area of tents that were packed with shoppers at a trade fair in the northern part of the country. Police say at least 45 people were killed. More than 100 others injured.

The flames engulfed a tent complex at a consumer electronics show in the town of Meerut, about 80 kilometers northeast of New Delhi. Police say many of the victims were women and children.

Preliminary reports suggesting now the fire caused by a short circuit. The flames were fanned by the explosions of gas cylinders.

GORANI: The White House calls it "normal defense and intelligence planning." That's a quote. Iran calls it "psychological warfare."

We move now to a new report suggesting that Washington is stepping up plans for a possible military strike against Iranian nuclear targets. Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says the United States is trying to scare his country with threats and urged Iranians not to be afraid. He addressed a crowd in northeastern Iran Monday, assuring them his government would not back down on its nuclear goals.

CLANCY: A lot of all the -- the discussion of all of this is being driven by news articles. And the White House has pointed to those articles, dismissing them, saying that one in particular in "The New Yorker" was wild speculation and hyped-up reporting.

It says it is focused right now on the Iran nuclear issue, on diplomacy. But it doesn't deny the essence of that report that nuclear strikes against Iran's underground sites are one option.

Now, journalist Seymour Hersh wrote the article. He spoke earlier with CNN's Soledad O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEYMOUR HERSH, "NEW YORKER": It's gotten to the point where in a few weeks, it's hoped that the senior leadership of the military will go to president and say categorically, "Mr. President, no nuclear option. Take it off the table."

There is a lot of planning. And by the way, Soledad, the planning is not just contingency planning. It's going into the next phase, operational planning. That is, they're seriously looking at options.

But if the president doesn't choose to take -- remove the nuclear option, officers, I'm told, some senior officers, will resign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Well, in Europe, foreign ministers are considering what action, if any, to take against Iran to curb its nuclear ambitions. The foreign policy chief for the European bloc, Javier Solana, says sanctions are a possibility, including a visa ban on some officials. But he says a military strike is not on the table.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAVIER SOLANA, EU FOREIGN POLICY CHIEF: I have read the article in "The New Yorker." I think it has nothing to do with reality. I don't think -- well, I don't know what (INAUDIBLE) Pentagon and different levels of Pentagon. But, I mean, I can't tell you that any military action is absolutely off the table for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: Now, "The New Yorker" article quotes a former U.S. defense official saying, "The military planning is based on a belief that a bombing campaign would humiliate Iran's leadership and leave the public to revolt there."

Now, one analyst we spoke to says we have heard this kind of reasoning before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: This is exactly what we heard from the president up until the month that we actually went to war. We now know that the administration was planning to go to war in Iraq a full year before we actually went.

I believe that senior administration officials have already made up their mind they want to hit Iran. I believe that most of Sy Hersh reports in that article is actually common knowledge here in Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: All right. Well, we want to know what you, our viewers, think about this question.

Today we look at the controversy over Iran's nuclear program. How to deal with it, how to respond to it. We're asking, what do you think the world should do about Iran's nuclear program if diplomacy fails?

CLANCY: E-mail us your thoughts to YWT@CNN.com.

All right. Keep the comments brief, and YWT@CNN.com. Include your name and where you're right us from.

Now, in Washington, New York, Los Angeles, even Atlanta this day, more mass protests against pending legislation that is called unfair to immigrants.

GORANI: Coming up, we'll take a look at the turnout and the details of what's driving this debate.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Pictures from Atlanta, Georgia. Demonstrations against legislation that protesters call unfair to immigrants and to immigration.

The U.S. Congress may be in recess, but lawmakers are getting no break from that debate raging across the country. Will the rallies pressure members of Congress into scrapping the legislation?

Among other measures, the U.S. is considering enacting tougher border controls and harsher penalties for those who aid people in the country illegally.

Bob Franken has more on the protesters and the political infighting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even before today's major rallies, demonstrators jammed the streets in Dallas on Sunday. They were there in Miami, too, and Long Island, New York.

It is impossible to document how many of the marchers are undocumented, taking a risk by going public.

Regardless, today organizers hope for a massive turnout across the country. They march as the Senate stalls, unable to agree on legislation that would allow many illegals to seek citizenship, a concept that's rejected by a majority in the House.

REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: It sends a horrible message. It sends a terrible message to every single person who has ever come in this country the right way.

FRANKEN: Some Democrats join the Republicans in acknowledging that the tide of illegal immigrant is out of control and presents security risks.

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: I agree, enforcement is key and security is key. But let's do it comprehensively. Let's have a holistic approach.

FRANKEN: The Senate has run into the kind of wall that would be the envy of those who want to protect U.S. borders.

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Democrats put political advantage over the national interest.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: What happened is the Republicans reached an agreement with Democrats, and then they couldn't hold the Republicans together.

FRANKEN (on camera): As the demonstrators come together by the hundreds of thousand, they hope, they want to communicate that political gamesmanship will not be tolerated, particularly by Hispanics, who have become the nation's largest minority.

Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: We'll have a lot more on this in a few minutes. We'll be talking with two activists who are fighting for immigrant rights. They will be at the protest in Washington later today -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Let's return to our top story now, to a report that is generating so much speculation over possibility -- the possibility of U.S. military action against Iran. This was all sparked, or at least some of it, by an article in "The New Yorker." That was followed by almost every major newspaper, suggesting Washington is considering striking Iran's underground nuclear facilities.

What are the chances of that really happening? And how bright a move is it?

Let's bring in Charles Kupchan. He's with Georgetown University in Washington.

Charles, what's wrong with this picture? We're hearing about military plans being made. Do you believe that's true, first of all?

CHARLES KUPCHAN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I think it is. We not only have the report from Sy Hersh in "The New Yorker," but independent reporting in "The Times," "The Washington Post" and other papers that planning is moving forward at a rapid pace. There are probably two different sides to this.

CLANCY: We also have the president saying, come on, that's way overstated.

KUPCHAN: Well, I think the president wants there to be concern in Tehran about that, both because it ratchets up the pressure on Tehran to make a diplomatic deal, but also because there likely is serious military planning moving forward.

Iran is playing hardball. They've said they're not going to stop enrichment. They launched some missiles over the last couple of weeks.

So, clearly, there's a confrontation looming. And I think the military option is under -- under no question moving forward here in Washington. Whether it's imminent is a different question.

CLANCY: You know, some of the people in Iran that I talk to say, yes, most people believe that Iran is working to develop a nuclear weapon, but they believe that's something to be proud of in their country.

What approach can you take to them?

KUPCHAN: Well, that's -- that's the nub of the problem. This is not just about nuclear weapons, it's not just about nuclear research.

For Iran, this confrontation is about nationalism. It's about pride. It's about the sense that Iran is now out from under the shadow of American power, Russian power, British power, the imperialism of the 20th century. And that's one of the reasons that much of the country has rallied around Ahmadinejad.

He's an extremist, but he is re-stoking the revolutionary fires. And part of that revolutionary fire about reclaiming Iranian sovereignty is nuclear technology. And that's why the standoff is so difficult.

CLANCY: All right. Charles, you've put Iran and its leadership on a couch here and told us about how, you know, this is psychologically what's happening and maybe we reach out to them and these kinds of things. But what kind of a threat do they pose?

This is a man who has, you know, said that Israel has to be wiped off the face of the earth. This is a government that has supported the kidnapping of American citizens, that is involved deeply in Iraq, causing a lot of problems for U.S. forces there.

What's the -- what are we supposed to believe? How do you know that it isn't exactly the threat that some of the more conservatives that view this problem are saying it is?

KUPCHAN: I have no reservation in saying that there is a serious threat looming in Iran and that a Middle East in which Iran has nuclear weapons is a very unstable place. Not just because of a threat to Israel, but because of the likely nuclearization of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, perhaps other countries in the region. And therefore, it is in the American interest to make sure that Iran does not acquire nuclear weapons.

The question is, what's the best way to deal with that now?

My concern is that this talk of military strikes of Iran as an outpost of tyranny only makes a diplomatic solution less likely. We have to have the pressure in the U.N. on the one hand, but also be talking to the Iranians about Iraq, about regional security, because that may open the window for a negotiated settlement.

CLANCY: All right. Charles Kupchan, we have to leave it there.

KUPCHAN: Thank you.

CLANCY: But there's going to be a lot more to talk about on this topic.

Charles Kupchan there. He's with the Council on Foreign Relations and Georgetown University in Washington.

Thank you.

KUPCHAN: Pleasure.

GORANI: A lot more ahead here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CLANCY: Including the latest turmoil in Nepal. The opposition and rebels clashing with police, and a violent show of force. We will have details right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta. More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes. But first, stories making headlines in the United States.

An update now on a tragic story we have been following all morning. A wrongful death suit has just been filed on behalf of a little Detroit boy.

A 911 operator scolded him for calling, apparently thinking he was making a crank call. But his mother was really dying. At a news conference last hour, attorney Geoffrey Fieger says Robert Turner's experience with an emergency call is not unique. And Fieger played what he says is another 911 tape. This time from a woman who had been shot in the head and chest by her husband.

Listen to the argument she gets.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm dying.

911 OPERATOR: What part of your head were you shot in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my temple.

911 OPERATOR: In your temple? And your husband is sitting right there? Is he still sitting there with a gun?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

911 OPERATOR: Where's the gun now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gun is gone. I'm getting ready to die.

911 OPERATOR: Where is the gun now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. I'm on the floor. I can't move.

911 OPERATOR: You know, if you got shot in the temple, you probably wouldn't be able to make this call.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma'am, I'm dying.

911 OPERATOR: If you got shot in the temple, ma'am, you wouldn't be able to talk to me. Would you put somebody else on the phone?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone, please.

911 OPERATOR: I hear somebody in the background. Put them on the phone.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HARRIS: Fieger is using that tape to bolster his case again the city of Detroit. We'll continue to follow this story.

Defending Duke. A lawyer says he has pictures to prove the lacrosse team is innocent. According to a lawyer for one of the players, he has time-coded photos. The attorney says they show an exotic dancer had injuries before she entered this house near the Duke campus.

The woman claims she was gang-raped during a team party. No team member has yet been charged in the case. The attorney says he won't release the photos to the public until DNA results are in. And that should be soon.

In California, too much water. They're shoring up levees as the floodwaters keep pushing higher and higher. The state's even dipping into the $100 million emergency fund that's normally reserved for summertime repairs.

Central California is coming off its rainiest March on record, and more rain is scheduled, forecast for the next 10 days.

Chad Myers, can that be true? Of course. You're the man with the answers.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: In the next five days, really, Tony, some spots will pick up around three inches of rain.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: Chad, thank you.

Immigration reform protesters are on the streets in dozens of U.S. cities today. This rally in Atlanta is one of 30 marches in the South alone. Live pictures now. Georgia lawmakers recently passed a tough crackdown on illegal immigrants.

Some of the other major cities holding rallies today include New York, Philadelphia, Washington and Los Angeles.

The U.S. Senate failed to pass an immigration bill last week before a two-week recess. A House-approved bill makes a felony to be in the U.S. illegally.

This afternoon in New York, a private memorial service for Dana Reeve. The widow of actor Christopher Reeve is remembered for her courage and devotion after a horse riding accident left him paralyzed. She continued her activism up until her death last month form lung cancer.

Reeve was not a smoker. She was 44.

Iran and the nuclear option coming up at the top of the hour on "LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips.

More details on the latest story from "The New Yorker," Seymour Hersh.

YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break.

I'm Tony Harris.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Hala Gorani.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy. These are some of the stories that are making headlines around the world. Student groups and unions in France declaring victory. That as the government is backing down, sounding a retreat on its controversial youth employment law. The move comes days after protests rocked the country, as well as strikes. A new plan to combat the double digit unemployment rate among young people has been drawn up. That's going before parliament.

GORANI: And now too close to call in Italy, as results come in with 15 percent of the votes counted. It seems as though votes in the upper house of parliament, the senate, are too close to call. Only one point within the margin of error. The lower house of parliament seems to be giving the victory to the Center Left Coalition. We will be following this story and bring you the latest results as they come in.

CLANCY: Fire sweeping through this crowded trade fair in northern India, in the city of Nerutz (ph). Police say now that 45 people have lost their lives. More than 100 others have been injured. Initial reports are now suggesting it was an electrical short circuit in one of those tents and a fire fanned by the explosion of a gas cylinder.

GORANI: There's turmoil in the streets of Nepal, with some describing the growing demonstrations there as the final push against the king. And there is a lot at stake in Nepal: Democracy, the king's absolute rule and in an insurgency by Maoist rebels now allied with the protesters.

Our Satinder Bindra wraps up the fast moving and complex developments for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ... defying a curfew. Nepal's political party say they will continue their campaign against the country's king. The want King Gyanendra, who assumed direct control of the country after booting out an elected government last year, to restore democracy. As protests and violence on the streets continues, analysts say the struggle to topple the king is entering a decisive stage.

DR. AJAI SAHNI, ANALYST: I think this is, under any circumstances, the final struggle. The question is how many weeks, months, or years it will take to achieve the end, which is going to be the collapse of the monarchy.

BINDRA: A year and a half ago, when he grabbed political power, many Nepalese believe King Gyanendra's promise he would break the back of a growing Maoist insurgency that wants to establish a communist government in Nepal. But the king has failed to deliver. The Maoists are now more powerful than ever, and are supporting the political parties in their ongoing demonstrations against the king.

Facing such a situation, a government minister appeared to offer Nepal's striking political parties a compromise. "The government is ready to hold talks," he says, "with the seven political parties, provided they give up their links with the Maoists."

So far there's no indication these protesters are in any mood to compromise. Analysts say they're unlikely to accept any offer that doesn't dilute the king's authority.

SAHNI: This is not a meaningful offer, because this is just the same language that has been reiterated again and again over the past year and a half, ever since the king took over, in fact.

BINDRA: The international community is appealing to the king and his forces to stop what they call repressive measures. But Nepal's government says human rights groups are misreading the situation on the ground. They say they have to use force against a struggle that's now being increasingly backed and guided by the Maoists -- a movement, the government warns, has never shied away from using deadly force and violence.

Satinder Bindra, CNN, New Dehli.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: Turning to the United States now, where protesters are pressuring Congress to abandon legislation they call unfair to immigrants. Mass demonstrations are under way right now all across the country. In cities big and small, immigrants rights activists are clamoring for attention and support.

Allan Chernoff introduces us to an American family on the forefront of this fight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLAN CHERNOFF (voice-over): Marabeth Sanchez (ph) is only 12 years old, but she has a message for Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are not criminals. We just follow our dream.

CHERNOFF: Marabeth (ph) is the daughter of Fernando and Ana Sanchez, undocumented immigrants who illegally crossed the U.S./Mexican border 15 years ago. Fernando Sanchez, who works on construction sites, says he didn't have the option to come to the U.S. legally and only intended to stay for a few years. But after having four children, all U.S. citizens because they were born here, Fernando wants to remain in America legally and says he wants to live the American dream.

FERNANDO SANCHEZ, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT (through translator): For me, it means to be able to have progress, to have a better life than the one I would have in my country.

CHERNOFF: The entire Sanchez family will march on city hall Monday, joining thousands of expected protesters to support the right of illegal immigrants to seek U.S. citizenship. Community activist Ana Maria Archila says illegal immigrants are eager to have their voices heard.

ANA MARIA ARCHILA, LATIN AMERICAN INTEGRATION CENTER: People feel like don't feel like they don't come here to break the law, but they come here to do jobs that are hard jobs, that are low paying -- low paying jobs that are really risky jobs. And they feel like there is a lot of lack of gratitude from the members of Congress that are instilling fear and hatred against immigrant communities.

CHERNOFF: Ana Sanchez agrees and says life is hard as an illegal immigrant. She and her husband live in constant fear of deportation and they have not been able to visit their family back in Mexico for 15 years. But it's all worth it, she says, to raise her family in America.

ANA SANCHEZ, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): We have to struggle and that you cannot give up for what is good for -- I cannot give up for what is good for myself, for my husband and for my children.

CHERNOFF: Marabeth Sanchez and her brothers will carry their homemade signs to Monday's rally, and hope their voices will be enough to reach lawmakers in Washington so their parents and other illegal immigrants can finally call America their country and their home.

Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: There you saw in Allan's story some illegals, others born here with U.S. citizenship. Should the U.S. impose harsher penalties on illegal immigrants? Should it impose harsher penalties on those who aid them into the country? Should the country create a guest worker program to ease individuals into citizenship?

To help us hash out these issues and others, we turn to two immigrant rights activists. Pedro Biaggi is an El Zol radio host. Jaime Contreras, chairman of the National Capital Immigration Coalition, a key organizer of the protest. Both join us now from Washington.

Jaime, I'm going to start with you. What do you hope these protests will achieve?

JAIME CONTRERAS, IMMIGRANT RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I'm sorry, could you repeat your question again?

GORANI: Jaime, what will these protests achieve? What do you hope they will achieve?

CONTRERAS: What we want to achieve is to send a very strong message to the Senate, to the Congress in general, and to this administration that immigrants are fed up, that we are tired, that we work very hard and we come to this country not to take from America, but to make America strong. And we do not deserve to be treated the way we have been treated for the last several months or even after that -- 9/11.

Immigrants work hard, pay taxes and we're here in force to show our numbers and show our strength in numbers and to make sure that our message also gets across, and that America gets to hear our side of the story.

GORANI: Now, Pedro, those who argue against an easy pass to citizenship for illegal immigrants say this would send a terrible message to those millions who have come to this country and they've abided by the rules. What do you answer to those critics?

CONTRERAS: Well, the...

CLANCY: Pedro -- if I could have Pedro answer that question, Jaime.

CONTRERAS: I'm sorry -- go ahead.

PEDRO BIAGGI, HOST, EL ZOL RADIO: Nothing is easy for us here. We just want an opportunity to earn our place. We want the right path to earn our position in this country. We don't want it to be given to us. We want to earn it, and that's the opportunity, and that's what we're looking for today.

GORANI: And precisely, Jaime, that's what people who are against this say. They say, if you just hand out a citizenship paper, a green card, you're not really earning it.

CONTRERAS: Right. Well, I think if you ask the 11-plus million undocumented immigrants in this country, are you willing to pay a fine? Are you willing to pay your taxes? Are you willing to learn English and an ton to become legalized in this country, all of them will be more than willing to come out of shadows and be part of the civic life of America.

We're not asking to get ahead in the line for the people who are already waiting. We're asking to get an opportunity to legalize the status of the workers already here contributing to the American economy to come out of the shadows and not be afraid to go to work everyday, with the fear of deportation.

GORANI: Sure Pedro Biaggi, you're a deejay on El Zol. You have among your listeners thousands of immigrants, some legal, some illegal. What do they tell you? What are their concerns this day? Do they fear that they're being unfairly targeted, that they're being treated as second-class citizens?

BIAGGI: There's no fear. We have no fear. We just want to prove to you today, especially today, our most important day in the history of this country for us how beautiful we are, what we have to contribute to this society. We are kind. We are giving. We are hardworking. We are beautiful people, and that's all we want to be taken as.

GORANI: Let's talk specifics, Pedro. Let's take specifics. What do you make of some of the provisions of the laws? What specifically do you think might work?

BIAGGI: Well, what would not work is to make me a criminal because I hand you a plate of food or I give you a roof to sleep over one night, just because you don't have the right papers in your hand. I am not going to be a criminal just because I am a kind human being. More specific than that, we can't get.

GORANI: OK, Jaime, I have to ask you this, you are -- of the National Capital Immigration Coalition. You're an immigrant activists. What response are you getting from the legislative community? what are they telling you regarding whether or not they feel street pressure will force them, as it did in France -- we've been covering protests all around the world -- to perhaps back down on some elements of the legislation.

CONTRERAS: Well, I think the legislators are paying very close attention to what's going on around the country. With over 150 cities around the country, immigrants speaking with one voice, that the debate has turned in many ways for the simple reason that I think legislators have noticed the power that immigrants -- and how angry we are at being treated the way that we're being treated.

You know, I came here undocumented at the age of 13, and I am a U.S. citizen. I have served in the United States Navy, so you can't tell me that I come here to take from this country. I love this country, and that's the story of most of the immigrants that come here, to work, to contribute. And we come here to stay, we don't come here for a couple of years and then go. Most of the people that want to come here come here because they want to give their children a better life, and that is not a crime.

GORANI: Pedro, you look at some of these pictures, and it's been said that Spanish radio has been instrumental in getting some of these individuals out on the street. Are you surprised by the massive turnout in some cases?

BIAGGI: Well, we as a radio station are the voice of the people. am not surprised of the turnout, because we're delivering the right message. We are delivering the true message. So the reaction is just the way it should be. I am amazed at the turnout and the reaction from the audience.

GORANI: Some people are saying this is almost like it's kind of like the immigrant civil rights, sort of the beginnings of that type of wave. Do you agree with that, Pedro?

BIAGGI: Absolutely. Like Martin Luther King said, I have a dream. But you know, this country was built with immigrants. And we are that American dream.

Without 43 million Hispanics and how many more millions of immigrants that are in this country, what would it be? It would be a nightmare.

GORANI: And you know, Jaime, another thing that's been said is there's a lot of focus on the Latino community, on those immigrants who've come from Latin America, perhaps unfairly, because the United States is composed of so many minorities, so many individuals from all over the world, not just Latin America, but Europe, Asia and elsewhere. Do you think that Hispanics are unfairly singled out in a sense?

CONTRERAS: The Hispanics are always unfairly single out for the mere fact that we are the largest immigrant population in the country. But as you're going to see today in our program, this coalition has over 50 organizations, local organizations that are part of it, and it's very well represented by both Asian-Americans, African-Americans, Hispanics and people from all walks of life; labor, religious, political, business leaders, you have everybody involved in this moment because it is a movement. Immigrants are fed up with being used of scapegoats during political years. The sleeping giant is awake, wide and, we're paying very close attention.

GORANI: One last question to Pedro, will this pressure Congress, do you think? I mean, you have -- the Hispanic community is the largest minority in the United States and a big voting bloc. Do you think this will pressure Congress, do you think.

BIAGGI: Absolutely. Now they realize how many we are here for real and how we feel about this. Now that we are like the passion -- and what we're asking for. You know, who's asleep? We're not sleeping anymore. And most important of all, we're not afraid to be here today to show who we are.

GORANI: Pedro Biaggi, a DJ on El Zol, thank you very much for being with us. Jamie Contreras of the National Capitol Immigration Coalition, thank you to you both for coming to us and speaking to us live from Washington D.C. on YOUR WOULD TODAY.

BIAGGI: Thank you.

CONTRERAS: Thank you.

CLANCY: And, Hala, you pointed out, boy, those massive protests surprised a lot of people. They surprised the police. Even as we heard there, the activists behind it.

GORANI: And you can tell it's a passionate issue. And part of the reason perhaps that so many people feel like they want to go out there, and they want to protest and demonstrate.

CLANCY: Streets of the U.S. today.

Coming up, though, we're going to be looking more closely at the fight against bird flu.

GORANI: All right, how much of a threat sit really, not to birds, but to you, humans. Some experts say the risk of a pandemic is actually perhaps not as high as we thought, but it sill has taken a toll on some. We'll tell you more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CLANCY: Welcome back to YOUR WOULD TODAY on CNN International. Let's go to Britain now, where the focus is on the fight against bird flu. The country's chief scientific adviser saying now that the chances appear to be low that the disease could mutate to a form that would actually threaten humans with a pandemic low. But The government is still planning for it, and is still precautions, according to documents cited in "The Sunday Times."

All of this after a dead swan with a lethal form of the disease was found in Scotland. Some families elsewhere already have been hurt by bird flu.

Dan Rivers is in Thailand to tell the story from there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His photo is cherished. His parents still shattered by his death. Mnongang Chia (ph) Yutta perished from bird flu just before Christmas. He was only five years old.

His mother, Rena, still recalls his haunting cries in the hospital. She says she was unable to go near him as he succumbed to the H5n1 virus. He died alone in an isolation ward of a local hospital.

For the Yutta family, bird flu is not an abstract risk that may happen in the future. It's here now and it's taken their little boy.

This is the man the U.N. has charged with stopping it spreading further. Dr. David Nabarro is coming to the end of an exhaustive tour of Asia to see if the right precautions are in place.

I join him at a chicken farm in rural Thailand. Security and hygiene are paramount here. Something that reassures Dr. Nabarro. Inside, birds are regularly swabbed for H5n1.

DR. DAVID NABARRO, U.N. BIRD FLU COORDINATOR: The high level of bio-security is exactly what is desired. In general, it's quite confidence-giving, not only for me but I hope also for the people who are buying poultry, which could be people anywhere in the world, frankly, from this production plant.

RIVERS (on camera): This is the front line in the war against bird flu. To get into a poultry house like this in Thailand, you have wear these bio-security clothes and be thoroughly disinfected and if there is an outbreak, every single bird within five kilometers has to be slaughtered.

So far, these measures seem to be keeping bird flu at bay here, but the concern is that elsewhere in the region, measures are far less stringent.

(voice-over): Outside Dr. Nabarro warned infected birds are already migrating from Africa to the Arctic where they could infect other birds heading to North American. NABARRO: There could well be avian influenza It could be within the U.S. within months. The challenge for them as for the country in Western Europe is to make sure it done get embedded in the domestic poultry population.

RIVERS: It suddenly makes the Yutta family's experience all the more chilling for them in the U.S.

The Yuttas remember little Mnongang Chia as a lively, happy boy who loved riding his bike. But bird flu has left their home empty and quiet. His grave is planted with flowers. The family pray that others won't fall victim to H5N1 but fear as the virus spreads, they won't be alone in their mourning.

Dan Rivers, CNN, Nkong Nayuk (ph), Thailand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: It's that time. The inbox time.

CLANCY: Our question was this. What do you think the world should do about Iran's nuclear program if diplomacy fails?

GORANI: We got a lot of email on this one. Molly in Costa Rica says, "I believe Iran is a red herring designed to distract from the miserable failures in Iraq."

CLANCY: Uche in Nigeria says this, "If diplomacy fails, I think the world should come together and put an end to Iran's nuclear program.

GORANI: Tom in the United States. "This is not really about the nuclear threat as it as, once again, about regime change. We're being lied to and misled once again," says Tom.

CLANCY: Finally, Andreas in Germany says this. "The mullahs in Iran and its proxies have been killing Americans for more than 25 years. It's time to stop the wishful thinking and fight fire with fire."

A lot of different opinions today. A lot of people weighing in on this one.

GORANI: That is it for YOUR WORLD TODAY for this hour. I'm Hala Gorani.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com