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American Morning

Final Minutes of Flight 93; DNA Dilemma; Hacker Hearing

Aired April 12, 2006 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thirty-one minutes of desperation, a life-and-death struggle. The jury in the Zacarias Moussaoui trial to hear tapes from United Flight 93's cockpit voice recorder today.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And they are bracing for the very worst today in California. More rain there could send rivers right over the edge -- Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm meteorologist Chad Myers. And there is more rain in the forecast. In fact, all day long today and maybe all day tomorrow as well. A forecast coming up.

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "FORTUNE": I'm Andy Serwer at the New York Auto Show, surrounded by some of the coolest, hottest heavy metal on the planet. We'll tell you all about it coming up.

M. O'BRIEN: Ooh, what's under that drape there, I wonder?

Plus, would you let your kids crawl on a dirty floor? We're learning now it may not be such a bad idea.

Good morning. Welcome to CNN AMERICAN MORNING.

I'm Miles O'Brien.

S. O'BRIEN: And I'm Soledad O'Brien.

The fear and the frustration and the anger. Jurors in the Zacarias Moussaoui trial will hear the last minutes of United Airlines Flight 93 today. The cockpit voice recorder is being played in court.

Homeland Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve has our story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We know how Flight 93 ended, the plane in fragments, 44 dead. But the cockpit voice order, or CBR, will shed light on events leading up to the crash. Hamilton Peterson is among the Flight 93 family members who have heard the 30-minute tape.

HAMILTON PETERSON, SON OF FLIGHT PASSENGER: At times, it's absolutely clear. At other times, there's background noise.

MESERVE: When Flight 93 left Newark Airport on the morning of September 11th, all of the hijackers had seats in first class. Ziad Jarrah, who was a pilot, was in 1B, closest to the cockpit. Ahmed Al Nami (ph), another, was in 3C. Sayeed Algandi (ph) was in 3D, and Ahman Al Hasnawi (ph) was in 6B, but 45 minutes into the flight, three of them left their seats taking over the cockpit. The jury heard the pilots say, "Mayday, get out of here!" in a radio transmission played in court Tuesday.

Another radio transmission captured what is believed to be Jarrah trying to speak to the passengers: "This is the captain. Would like you all to remain seated. There is a bomb onboard."

Herded to the back of the plane, the passengers and crew made phone calls and plans after learning of the World Trade Center attacks. Todd Beamer was speaking to telephone operator Lisa Jefferson.

LISA JEFFERSON, GTE AIRFONE OPERATOR: He said, "OK. Let's roll." That was the last I heard from Todd.

MESERVE: Passengers and crew stormed forward. The hijackers gyrated the plane to try to knock them off their feet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could hear the terrorists. You could hear in the end they were actually the ones who were terrorized.

MESERVE: Though government investigators do not believe passengers and crew ever entered the cockpit, their revolt sent the plane into the ground, rather than what is believed to be its intended target, the U.S. Capitol.

PETERSON: It sends us the message, we cannot exclusively rely upon our police or our military. Every one of us has an individual responsibility and obligation to take action.

MESERVE (on camera): Peterson is ecstatic that the tape will be played in court, but he worries that the public, which will only see the transcript, won't learn the lesson of Flight 93, which is, he says, that good can triumph over evil.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Alexandria, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: And, of course, you'll want to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: The Duke rape allegation is continuing despite the fact that DNA samples from the lacrosse players apparently do not link them to the alleged victim, according to their -- the defense team. So how strong is the case if the strongest evidence doesn't seem to be panning out?

AMERICAN MORNING'S Alina Cho has been looking into this. She joins us now from the newsroom with more -- Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, you know, it's called the CSI effect. DNA is often seen as the be all, end all in evidence these days. It's considered so important, so critical, when there's no DNA match in cases of rape, for example, many people often think case closed. Well, that is not necessarily true, and certainly not true in the Duke case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no DNA evidence...

CHO (voice over): When defense attorneys representing Duke lacrosse players made that announcement, many began to wonder, would prosecutors still have a case? If DNA is the most compelling evidence in a rape case, what happens without it?

Rockne Harmon is a longtime prosecutor and DNA expert.

ROCKNE HARMON, DNA EXPERT: I think for starters we have to acknowledge that just because there's no biological evidence of any kind, no DNA evidence, that doesn't mean an assault didn't occur.

CHO: Harmon says DNA is a relatively new prosecution tool introduced in the late 1980s, brought into the American consciousness during the O.J. Simpson trial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Orenthal James Simpson not guilty of the crime of murder...

CHO: In the absence of DNA, Harmon says prosecutors must rely on other forensic evidence, like trauma to the victim or markings on the defendants. He says they must also rely heavily on witnesses.

BEN BRAFMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Maybe there was an overstatement of what actually took place.

CHO: Famed attorney Ben Brafman says witnesses coming forward can also help the defense. In the case of the Duke lacrosse players, Bratman says if there are 47 players on the team, there are likely many different stories, and it's possible none of them will match the accuser's account.

BRAFMAN: In a he said-she said, it's always difficult to get a conviction. When you have a she said, he said, he said, he said, he said, and multiply that out, you have a very difficult case as a prosecutor.

CHO (on camera): So we're looking at an uphill battle for the prosecution?

BRAFMAN: You're looking at an uphill battle.

CHO (voice over): Then there's the issue of some high-profile cases are handled. Take basketball star Kobe Bryant. When DNA linked him to his female accuser, the L.A. Laker's denial became a tearful admission.

KOBE BRYANT, BASKETBALL PLAYER: I'm so sorry.

CHO: Rockne Harmon says that proves DNA, though important, doesn't guarantee a conviction.

HARMON: Fifteen years ago we hardly ever got to do DNA. Now, whenever anything happens, we want -- we turn to DNA to save the day. And as you've seen, it does when it can, when it can't, you revert back to normal investigative means.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: Now, let's talk about the Duke case. The district attorney isn't talking about what kind of evidence he has, but he is hinting that he may be waiting on the results of other DNA tests. It is unclear exactly what he is talking about, but Miles, he certainly will be presenting the evidence soon enough to a grand jury next week -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Alina Cho, thank you very much -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, it apparently started with an obsession over UFOs. Now an accused hacker could be heading to the U.S. for trial after he admitted to breaking into seemingly secure computers at the Pentagon and at NASA, among other places.

CNN's Paula Hancocks has hour story from London this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The U.S. government considers this man dangerous, accusing him of carrying out the biggest military computer hack of all time.

Gary McKinnon, an unemployed computer systems administrator, has referred to himself in the past as a bumbling computer nerd. The U.S. government alleges that between February, 2001 and March 2002, McKinnon hacked into some of the world supposedly most impenetrable sites, deleting and altering files.

McKinnon freely admits he got into dozens of U.S. government computer systems. He says it was easy.

GARY MCKINNON, ACCUSED HACKER: I was amazed at the lack of security in some of these places considering these are supposedly the world police and the protectors of freedom, the greatest super power on this planet. And I did occasionally leave messages in system administrators' machines saying, "This is ridiculous." Some political diatribes as well, but also a pointer to say, you know, this is absolutely ridiculous.

HANCOCKS: But McKinnon claims his motives were neither political nor malicious. He says he was conducting research into whether the United States is covering up information about UFOs, or unidentified flying objects.

His research lasted seven years. It became an obsession for him and led to him losing his job, his girlfriend, and now possibly his freedom. The U.S. government alleges McKinnon hacked into networks operated by the U.S. Army, as well as those associated with the U.S. Navy, the U.S. Air Force, and the Pentagon. The government also alleges McKinnon infiltrated 16 NASA computers and caused the U.S. military district of Washington to become inoperable.

MCKINNON: I certainly hope that one man on an old dial-up modem, bear in mind, not broadband, is certainly not capable of taking down the entire military district of Washington. If someone is, then that's pretty scary stuff.

HANCOCKS: McKinnon is fighting his extradition to the U.S. vigorously, saying he was operating and caught in Britain and wants to be charged in Britain.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: California firefighters are searching for a man who may have been swept away by a mudslide.

Meanwhile, more rain in the forecast for northern California today, believe it or not. Let's get right to Priya David, who is with our Bay area affiliate KTVU. She joins us this morning very early out there from Brisbane, California, just outside of San Francisco.

Priya, what's the latest from there?

PRIYA DAVID, REPORTER, KTVU: Miles, there are mudslides up and down the California coast, especially here in the Bay area.

Take a look behind me at one landslide that happened on a residential road. It took a car down with it when it happened about 9:15 last night. Several homes have been evacuated. People are out of the homes, they've taken many of their valuable possessions. They're not going to be allowed back in for several hours.

There's a very urgent situation going on right now a little bit further north in Marin County, where one man is missing after a landslide. A husband and wife were in their home. The husband went out to check on debris after all the rain that we've been having early this morning about 3:00 a.m. our time, about three hours ago.

A landslide came down, and the man, we believe, is trapped. He is still missing. The wife who was in the home has been able to get out. She's sheltered right now. Four other homes are being evacuated as we speak, but this one man, a 70-year-old man, is missing.

In the Santa Cruz mountains as well, further south, they're concerned about the Lorenzo River overflowing and more mudslides. And Miles, as you said, there is more rain in the forecast for the Bay area.

Back to you.

M. O'BRIEN: Priya David, with our San Francisco affiliate KTVU.

Thank you very much.

It's time for the forecast now. Chad Myers offering little relief for them.

MYERS: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: That same blob of blue continues over the West Coast.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Hey, Chad, are we getting a little rain this afternoon, evening?

MYERS: Yes. It's absolutely a potential.

S. O'BRIEN: What time, do you think?

MYERS: Talk to me in a few minutes.

M. O'BRIEN: What? You want an appointment or something?

S. O'BRIEN: I want the personalized forecast.

MYERS: 5:17.

S. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Chad. I appreciate that.

MYERS: I'll work on it. I'll e-mail you.

S. O'BRIEN: OK. Thank you. Just wondering.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you going to tell us why?

S. O'BRIEN: No. I'm just really wondering. Don't you know when it's going to pour and your hair's going to get all, you know, frizzy?

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, I worry about my hair that way. I do. All right.

Coming up, hurricane season quickly approaching. The Red Cross says it is ready. We'll tell you what it plans to do differently this year. Hopefully learning from mistakes in the past season.

S. O'BRIEN: And if you think the constant cleaning keeps your kids from getting sick, we're going to take a look at a theory that says a few germs are actually good for your kids. We'll explain.

M. O'BRIEN: What we need is a few good germs, huh?

And we're live from the New York International Auto Show. Actually, we're not live from there. Andy Serwer is live from there. And he'll give us a little preview of what's hot there. And hybrid is a big thing. We'll check in on the latest in just a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld once again facing harsh criticism. Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace came to Secretary Rumsfeld's defense yesterday, saying no one works harder than he does. But three former generals recently have come out accusing Rumsfeld of bungling the war plan in Iraq. And then earlier we heard from retired Army Major General John Batiste often whether he thinks Secretary Rumsfeld should resign, something you will see only here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. JOHN BATISTE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I believe that we need a fresh start in the Pentagon. We need a leader who understands teamwork, a leader who knows how to build teams, a leader that does it without intimidation, a leader that conforms and practices the letter and the law of the Goldwater-Nichols Act.

Conversely, I think we need senior military leaders who understand the principles of war and apply them ruthlessly. And when the time comes, they need to call it like it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Secretary Rumsfeld has said that criticism does not affect his ability to do his job -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, today, jurors in the Zacarias Moussaoui death penalty trial will hear cockpit recordings from United Flight 93 on 9/11. Prosecutors are expected to finish up their case by the day's end.

Senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin is with us with more on this.

Good morning to you

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

S. O'BRIEN: It looks as if the jurors are going to have a chance to hear the cockpit voice recorder, and it's going to be brutal. I mean, the details that have been coming out are absolutely horrifying.

What do you think -- I mean, it's going to be too much, do you think?

TOOBIN: Well, see, this -- you know, this case, fortunately, is really without precedent in American history. This is the equivalent of a death penalty hearing on the death of more than 3,000 people. So how do you deal with something like that?

You know, I covered the McVeigh and Nichols trials, where there was a penalty phase for the death of 165 people, and I vividly remember sitting in that courtroom thinking, you know, there is simply no way you can convey the enormity of killing 165 people. Here, it's 20 times that many. So, you know, I can see the arguments on both sides that the government says, look, you know, you've got to treat each of these people like an individual. The defense says, this is overwhelming, it's unfair, it's a distortion.

So, I mean, think the judge has steered a reasonable middle course here in letting the government do most of what it wants, but not everything.

S. O'BRIEN: But she has warned that it could really set up appeals if they go overboard. Explain that to me.

TOOBIN: Well, and it also could alienate the jury potentially. The jury could say, well, maybe they think they have such a weak case on the other facts in the case...

S. O'BRIEN: Playing to emotions.

TOOBIN: ... and they're just playing on our -- on our emotions.

Frankly, I think this case was over when they decided the issue of guilt, because that is a -- that was a much tougher part of the case for government. If you believe...

S. O'BRIEN: You think he's going to get death?

TOOBIN: I think the odds are overwhelming. If this jury clearly believes they've found that he was responsible for all these deaths, given that, and given in jury selection their statements that they are willing to impose the death penalty, it would be shocking to me if they didn't.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think the voice recording should be made public? They're going to release the transcript, but not the actual recording.

TOOBIN: You know, I do. I'm of the view that if something appears in a courtroom, which is a public place, it should be public. And public in America means distributed to the news media.

This is a major event in American history. Most of the family members don't object. And I think if it can be played in court it can be played in public.

S. O'BRIEN: I want to get to two questions in the one minute we have left. So I'll make it fast.

TOOBIN: OK.

S. O'BRIEN: Richard Reid, would-be shoe bomber, why does the defense want to call him?

TOOBIN: Because the defense theory here is their client, Moussaoui, is nuts, he's schizophrenic, he's claiming responsibility for things that he in fact didn't really do. Part of that relates to Reid. He -- Moussaoui, in his testimony, claimed that he and Reid were conspiring to bomb -- to attack a building with a plane. Reid, I suspect, if he agrees to testify, would testify, I don't know Moussaoui from Adam, or I had nothing to do...

S. O'BRIEN: So that he's crazy.

TOOBIN: It shows that Moussaoui is hallucinating all of this, yes.

S. O'BRIEN: What the defense wants.

I want to turn and talk about this rape case, Duke University lacrosse players. As you know, the DNA doesn't match.

TOOBIN: Well, what we -- what we don't know about the DNA is more than what we do know about the DNA, because there are two main possibilities. And we don't know which one is true.

Does the DNA point to an individual who is not among the 46 student lacrosse players? That -- in that case, I really do think the prosecution is over.

But in the other possibility, that the DNA test is simply inconclusive, that they can't tie whatever samples they found to anyone, then I think the investigation will proceed, because in that case, it's simply inconclusive. It doesn't exclude the players. And then you have to go back to the traditional techniques of eyewitness identification, marks on the body, admissions by suspects.

I mean...

S. O'BRIEN: DNA is the be all, end all?

TOOBIN: DNA is not the be all and end all. So just because some defense attorney says the DNA exonerates our client...

S. O'BRIEN: Right.

TOOBIN: .. you know, that's not how the system works.

S. O'BRIEN: Defense attorneys say that all the time, actually.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: They have their interests, and that's appropriate.

S. O'BRIEN: I'm not a lawyer, but I notice that. All right. Jeff, thanks.

TOOBIN: All right.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Soledad. Coming up on the program, we're going to take a look at the debate over the best way to keep your kids from getting sick. We'll look at why it might be good to let them get a little dirty now and then. So you don't have to clean up, folks. Isn't that great?

And later, the Red Cross got a lot of flak for its Katrina response. So is it ready for the upcoming hurricane season? They have a new plan. We'll delve into that a little bit later.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: The tulips are blooming in Central Park there.

Do you have a five-second rule in your house? How about a five- minute rule? How about a five-day rule?

Well, as it turns out, maybe all the concern some parents have about cleanliness might be misplaced, and that exposing kids to a little good dirt here and there might be good for their health.

Here's our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE SUKENIK, MOTHER: Come on, let's go over to the children's department.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We know what a lot of you are thinking right now, what kind of mother lets her baby crawl around in a department store, chew on a stick, and put a ball in her mouth that had just been in the dog's mouth?

(on camera): And then when you're done with this, do you disinfect her and wipe her off?

MICHELLE SUKENIK: Nope.

COHEN (voice-over): Wait. It gets even better.

MICHELLE SUKENIK: Want some puffs?

COHEN: Fourteen-month-old Madison Sukenik eats right off the carpet of a doctor's office where hundreds of sick children have been. And that doctor behind her, that's her father. And believe it or not, Mark Sukenik's fine with all this. In fact, it's his idea.

(on camera): So what did you say when he would come home in his scrubs and pick up the baby?

MICHELLE SUKENIK: I was mortified and I would be asking him to take a shower twice and change and, yes, I was pretty neurotic.

COHEN: And you thought she was crazy?

MARK SUKENIK, FATHER: Yes.

COHEN: What did you tell her?

MARK SUKENIK: That she's going to be exposed to things, that she's a baby, that she'd be fine.

COHEN (voice-over): And as a matter of fact, Madison has been fine. She didn't have a single illness her entire first year of life. And now immunologists are coming around to Dr. Mark Sukenik's thinking. Many believe that exposure to germs early on might actually be good for a child. Help them have fewer allergies, less asthma. This sounds like heresy at a time when so many moms disinfect and bleach everything in sight and when everyone seems to be using antibacterial products.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When their world is cleaner, their lives are healthier.

COHEN: But it is possible to be too clean?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the matter? What is wrong?

COHEN: Dr. Dennis Ownby, professor of pediatrics at the Medical College of Georgia, researches what's called the hygiene hypothesis, the theory that too much cleanliness might be one of the reasons so many children have allergies. The numbers have skyrocketed in recent years.

(on camera): Intuition would tell you the cleaner the better.

DR. DENNIS OWNBY, MEDICAL COLLEGE OF GEORGIA: Right.

COHEN: But it sounds like that's not always true.

OWNBY: Well, at least in terms of allergic disease, it doesn't seem to be true.

COHEN (voice-over): Dr. Ownby's own study of more than 400 children found that having pets is actually good for kids.

OWNBY: Children exposed to cats and dogs and especially multiple cats and dogs were far less likely to have allergies not only to cats and dogs but also to ragweed and grass and dust mites when they were six to seven years of age.

COHEN: Doctors in England are preparing to take allergy studies a step further. This July they'll start giving babies peanut butter to see if it will keep them from getting potentially deadly peanut allergies later in life.

Researchers have already found that babies in day care, surrounded by lots of other germy babies, have fewer allergies and less wheezing later in life.

But Kara Sherry (ph) isn't convinced. She loves antibacterial products. She says bleach is her best friends. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I use it on the floor, I use it on the counter tops. I use it in the bathrooms. Pretty much almost everywhere. Show them how you clean, clean, clean.

COHEN: Kara (ph) bleaches the grout in the kitchen floor, scrubs down cabinets, disinfects doorknob after doorknob. The dog stays in the basement. And if little Carly (ph) puts a toy in her mouth, it goes into the dish washer. So do the family toothbrushes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything get sanitized and I feel good about it.

COHEN: And in public places...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... I've got the wipes, I've got antibacterial spray.

COHEN: Carol wipes down the grocery cart and makes sure Carly (ph) can't touch the cart handle.

(on camera): What grosses you out about what could be on that handle right there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything could be on that handle right there. Someone could have gone to the bathroom and not washed their hands. Somebody could have a cut on their hand and there could be staph, could be E. Coli, could be anything.

COHEN (voice-over): Is all this cleanliness worth it? To Kara (ph) it is.

(on camera): You're doing this out of love for your children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love -- I mean, absolutely, Love and protection. I look at it a way -- another way that I protect my kids.

COHEN (voice-over): And Kara says her way works. Her kids are rarely sick. We showed Dr. Ownby video of Kara (ph) cleaning her house.

OWNBY: I think this is probably more than is really necessary in terms of trying to prevent your family or your children from acquiring infections.

COHEN (on camera): So this is a little over the top for you?

OWNBY: It would be more than I would be willing to do in my kitchen.

COHEN (voice-over): He says basic hygiene is important like handwashing, but much more than that really isn't necessary. And while you don't have to let your baby eat off the floor...

MICHELLE SUKENIK: Come here, you want French toast?

COHEN: A few germs here and there might actually help your child stay healthy. Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: Elizabeth's report first aired on "PAULA ZAHN NOW," which you can catch weeknights at 8:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

Coming up, some pretty cool cars on display at the New York International Auto Show. What, you can't get there? Well, through the magic of television and the ever-so-magical Andy Serwer, you can do it right from your couch.

So sit tight, buckle in. You're going for a ride.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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