Skip to main content
Search
Services


 

Return to Transcripts main page

AMERICAN MORNING

Zacarias Moussaoui Trial; Latest in CIA Leak Investigation

Aired April 13, 2006 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jeanne Meserve at the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, where the Moussaoui defense will today try to rebut a very emotional prosecution case.
I'll have that story in a moment.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Bob Franken in Washington regarding "Scooter" Libby, the central figure in the CIA leak case, regarding a brief that has to do with fairy tales, coming up.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld under pressure to resign. We'll look at five reasons why many say he won't go.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And a couple claims sextuplets, but it's not true and it angers a community. Not the first time they've done it, too. We'll have that story.

Also this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sometimes sex takes the back burner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Ha!

Busy lives leave little time for fun. We're going to take a look at sexuality in our 30s, 40s and 50s series, just ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.

Good morning.

Welcome back, everybody.

M. O'BRIEN: Glad you're with us this morning.

It is a day for the defense in the Zacarias Moussaoui trial. Lawyers will tell the jury he's just too crazy to be executed. It comes after prosecutors laid out a devastating emotional case for putting Moussaoui to death. It was capped with that cockpit voice recording played for the court from United Flight 93.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve outside the courthouse in Alexandria with more -- good morning, Jeanne. MESERVE: Good morning, Miles.

Defense attorneys start their job today and experts say it will be a tough one to counter that emotional prosecution case, which culminated yesterday with the airing of the cockpit voice recorder from Flight 93.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

MESERVE (voice-over): It was 31 minutes of horror, beginning with the struggle for the cockpit. The hijackers repeatedly saying "Shut up!," "Sit down!."

An unidentified crew member pleads: "Please, please, don't hurt me. Oh, god."

And later a voice says: "I don't want to die. I don't want to die."

A few minutes later, a hijacker says: "Everything is fine. I finished."

The hijackers turned the plane eastward. For a time, all is quiet. Then, the hijackers realized the passengers are in revolt.

One says: "They want to get in there. Hold, hold from the inside."

An unidentified man says in English: "Let's get them."

There is the sound of a struggle.

"In the cockpit. If we don't, we'll die," says a passenger, adding, "roll it," an apparent reference to a beverage cart used to batter the cockpit door.

The hijackers pitched the plane from side to side and tilt the nose up and down. More struggle. The hijackers discuss whether or not to bring the plane down.

"Allah is the greatest," one hijacker chants over and over.

And then the recording ends. The flight has crashed.

Hamilton Peterson lost his father and stepmother on Flight 93. He was in the courtroom.

HAMILTON PETERSON, FLIGHT 93 FAMILY MEMBER: What was going through my heart is that this is an example of ordinary citizens stepping up to the plate on a moment's notice and protecting the United States capital from a terrorist attack.

MESERVE: As the courtroom sat riveted, listening to the tape and watching a video simulation of the plane, its course and its instrumentation, Zacarias Moussaoui smiled. ROSEMARY DILLARD, FLIGHT 93 FAMILY MEMBER: Witnesses would be up there pouring out their hearts and he's sitting there smirking. I mean to have no concept of what a life is worth, I just can't imagine a person being that way.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: I have to imagine what it was like to hear that, Jeanne.

Let's talk about the possibility of Moussaoui taking the stand today. I'm sure if his defense attorneys had anything to say about it, they'd say don't say a peep. But he has, it seems, a desire to talk.

MESERVE: That's right. He talked in the first phase of this trial and people believe he hurt himself by alleging that he did have a role to play in 9/11. And he wants to talk at this phase. His defense attorneys aren't crazy about it, but we're told that the judge has advised him he has an absolute right to do so.

We don't know if it will be today, but we think it could be -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: You know, when he talked last time, he basically saved the government's case, which was in a lot of trouble at that time, because a lot of testimony had been thrown out. It might be -- he might, quite literally, hang himself.

MESERVE: Well, I think that's exactly what the defense attorneys are afraid of. One theory is that he wants to become a martyr and he's quite anxious to die. And we're told that part of the defense case will -- will be to argue that he shouldn't be allowed that. That will be one of the many arguments they trot out here.

In addition, they'll be talking about his mental health. They have alleged he that he suffers from paranoid schizophrenia. They also will be talking about his difficult childhood, which made him susceptible to recruitment by al Qaeda -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm sure it will be fascinating.

Jeanne Meserve at the courthouse in Alexandria.

Thank you.

Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Lawyers for former White House aid Lewis "Scooter" Libby say the government is not playing fair. They say prosecutors are withholding information they need for a proper defense.

AMERICAN MORNING'S Bob Franken live in Washington, D.C. for us -- hey, Bob, good morning to you.

What exactly are "Scooter" Libby's attorneys trying to do for him?

FRANKEN: Well, there are so many tangles here. There are any number of things that "Scooter" Libby wanted to accomplish with this filing, which came late last night. And in a footnote is one of them, trying to correct an impression that the special prosecutor had left last week that the president or vice president had somehow been involved in ordering him to release the identity of Valeria Plame, the wife of Joseph Wilson.

In this footnote, he says: "Mr. Libby" -- this is his lawyer talking -- "Mr. Libby does not contend that he was instructed to make any disclosures concerning Mrs. Wilson by President Bush, Vice President Cheney or anyone else."

We should point out that he is not explicitly denying it, only that he is not making that legal claim.

He is, however, saying that this goes much further than the vice president's office. Any impression that it's only there is what he calls "a fairy tale."

Among the names that he mentions, Soledad, are Ari Fleischer, the former press secretary, and George Tenet, the former CIA director; Karl Rove, also, the current deputy White House chief of staff, the chief political adviser to the president and somebody who is still waiting to see if he faces indictment in this case -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Bob, what's the significance of all these motions going sort of to and fro?

FRANKEN: Well, there is a big battle right now going on. Libby and his lawyers are saying that in order to have an effective defense, they need thousands of pages of highly classified documents. And the special prosecutor is resisting that.

S. O'BRIEN: Bob Franken for us this morning.

Bob, thank you -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: A chorus of questions about Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and a string of recent calls for him to step aside. You heard one of those here yesterday from a retired general.

Former generals have been lining up to take shots at their former boss.

But as CNN's Tom Foreman reports, his departure is not likely.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the honorable secretary of defense, Donald H. Rumsfeld.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Friends and foes all know Donald Rumsfeld does not easily bend. So here are some reasons, they suggest, why he's unlikely to bow under the current battering.

Number one, it is not the Rumsfeld way. Rumsfeld takes his critics head on.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I just can't imagine someone looking at the United States armed forces today and suggesting that they're close to breaking. That's just not the case.

FOREMAN: His political life was built on toughness. Richard Nixon saw it 30 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, MARCH 9, 1971)

RICHARD NIXON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At least Rummy is tough enough. He's a ruthless little bastard, you can be sure of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: Rumsfeld sees it, too.

RUMSFELD: You know, if you do something, somebody is not going to like it. Therefore, you've got a choice. You can go do nothing or you can go do something and live with the fact that somebody's not going to like it.

FOREMAN: Number two, the impact on the military. The future of Iraq is uncertain. Osama bin Laden is still free. And Iran is rattling its saber. Some military analysts say Rumsfeld bears some blame. But others say letting the defense secretary be forced out would send a dangerous signal of weakness to enemies.

Number three, politics. Through Afghanistan and Iraq, Rumsfeld has led this administration's signature initiative -- the battle against global terrorism. The White House stands by him and expects the same in return.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: Secretary Rumsfeld is doing a great job, having overseen two fronts in the global war on terrorism.

FOREMAN: Number four, the opposition. Critics want Rumsfeld out.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: It would energize American forces. It would energize the political environment. Yes, he should step down.

FOREMAN: Political analysts say attacks on the White House will grow bolder if Rumsfeld blinks.

And number five, personal conviction.

(on camera): Rumsfeld has said many times this war is difficult, it will take a long time, but it is going well.

(voice-over): He sees newsmakers and news reporters who focus on the negative as mistaken and defeatist.

RUMSFELD: A steady stream of errors all seem to be in -- of a nature to inflame the situation and to give heart to the terrorists.

FOREMAN: Simply put, Don Rumsfeld has lost political battles, but it is not his nature to ever go down without a fight.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: Tom's report first aired on CNN's "ANDERSON COOPER 360." You can see "A.C. 360" weeknights, 10:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

Coming up in a few minutes, we'll discuss the pressure on Secretary Rumsfeld with the former head of the U.S. military's Central Command -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, thanks.

Happening in America today, in Louisiana, Michael Brown will not take that job with St. Bernard Parish. People there still too outraged about his performance when he was FEMA director during Hurricane Katrina.

In Florida, a ride at Disney's Epcot Center is closed while an investigation is being conducted. A 49-year-old woman died a day after she rode the Mission Space Ride on Tuesday. A 4-year-old boy died on the ride last June. Other riders have gone to the hospital with chest pains. Mission Space spins people around at very high speeds.

In California, a wild car chase to tell you about through the streets of L.A. Four cars, including a police car, crashed during the chase. And the white car is wrecked in a collision with another car. Take a look at it right there. And then you see the suspect leaps out and runs for it. Police were able to catch up with him.

And massive mudslides have sent families scrambling across Northern California. This house here came down in Monterrey (ph), California. Mudslides in other areas have closed roads and also forced the evacuation of several homes. Rescue crews are still working near San Francisco. They're trying to find a man who is believed to be buried under a wall of mud. Those crews are going to tear down what's been left of his house today.

All that brings us right to Chad Myers.

He's got the latest forecast for us -- hey, Chad, good morning.

What are you looking at? CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: A little relief, Soledad. A little break. About 24 to 36 hours of no rainfall -- Napa, Sonoma, North Bay area here.

Now, this is what we have -- I'm starting it from right now. I'm going to move you ahead, at least at this point, this is tonight. And now, tomorrow morning right about here, so no rain for the next 24 hours and then you see from tomorrow morning to tomorrow night a couple of areas around Fresno and Bakersfield, almost down to the grapevine, picking up about an inch of rain.

Everywhere that you see red, that's one inch of rain. So it's not what it was, and that's the good news.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: A small town opens up its hearts and its wallets to a couple with sextuplets. A little problem -- no babies. We'll talk to police about this really brazen hoax.

S. O'BRIEN: Also, Tom Cruise is back in the news blasting psychiatry once again. We're going to tell you what he said this time and tell you why doctors are so angry.

M. O'BRIEN: And one silver lining from Hurricane Katrina. The storm may turn out to be a good thing for some of New Orleans' struggling schools. We'll explain that one ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: A handful of retired generals are becoming more vocal with their criticism of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Here's what Major General John Batiste, now retired, said on AMERICAN MORNING on Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. JOHN BATISTE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): When we violate the principles of war with mass and unity of command and unity of effort, we do that at our own peril.

M. O'BRIEN: So the Secretary should step down?

BATISTE: In my opinion, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: General Batiste is not alone in his assessment of Secretary Rumsfeld.

Marine General Anthony Zinni is now retired, but he was the former head of the U.S. military's Central Command.

He's also written a book. It's called "The Battle for Peace: A Front Line Vision of America's Power and Purpose." And he joins us this morning from D.C.

Nice to see you, sir.

Thanks for talking with us.

GEN. ANTHONY ZINNI, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET.): Good morning, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: You are not a fan of Donald Rumsfeld.

Tell me what you think is the biggest mistake that he is -- has made in regards to Iraq.

ZINNI: I think the biggest mistake was throwing away 10 years worth of planning, plans that had taken into account what we would face in an occupation of Iraq. And it had to be an occupation. We couldn't do it on the cheap with too few troops, trust in exiles who weren't credible, bring in ad hoc teams for the reconstruction that were in way over their head.

These were tremendously serious mistakes.

S. O'BRIEN: As you well know, Iraq's government is in disarray. They have no effective unity government. It doesn't look like they're going to get one any time soon.

What do you think the U.S. should be doing right now to try to pressure the Iraqis into getting it together?

ZINNI: Well, the key is the people. Remarkably, the people haven't let this descend into a total civil war, although it's on the edge. We need to connect to them. They need to have a voice. We need to give them hope for the future, economic development, to allow them a voice and to express their differences, to put pressure on their own politicians.

Merely training security forces and pressuring their political leaders from the outside isn't going to be enough.

S. O'BRIEN: We have reporters in Baghdad who have said that the number of American troops who are now going out with Iraqi troops is actually increasing in the wake of some of this violence, which is obviously exactly the opposite of what's been hoped for, that those numbers would decrease and that the Iraqi troops would be brought up to speed.

When do you think those troops will be up to speed and American troops will be able to come home?

ZINNI: I think the key is not so much in training and in equipping the Iraqi forces. That is important. It's intelligence. They need the intelligence capability, again, that connects with the people, knows where these perpetrators of violence are located. They aren't in numbers that are sufficient to take on the Iraqi forces even now. But these cumbersome, large operations that aren't really driven by intelligence aren't very effective and actually create more casualties.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think that there has been no real progress in three years?

ZINNI: Well, no, that would be wrong to say that. I think you can find places locally, places like in the north with the Kurds and elsewhere, where there has been more security, where there isn't the sectarian violence, where some progress has been made. Not like what was promised or anticipated in this over optimistic view from the Pentagon and insufficient in developing the hope in economic development and restructuring the society.

S. O'BRIEN: You think the secretary of defense should resign immediately?

ZINNI: I think he should. And this is not personal, believe me. And this is very difficult for generals to say. But, you know, we grew up in a culture where accountability, learning to accept responsibility, admitting your mistakes and learning from them was critical to us. When we don't see that happening, it worries us. Poor military judgment has been used throughout this mission.

S. O'BRIEN: Maureen Dowd, as you well know, has described Secretary Rumsfeld as being perceived as an eccentric old uncle by some, who's basically ignored.

Is that his assessment, do you think? I mean do you think she's describing it accurately and fairly?

ZINNI: No, I don't. I think, if anything else, probably his style -- what I hear is a bullying style, pressuring generals, not willing to accept advice. I don't know when the last time the Secretary met with the Joint Chiefs of Staff as a body. In my experience, in my time, that occurred frequently and in the tank. And that advice was sought. That advice was allowed to be given directly to the president, and one-on-one, in most cases, but as a body, also.

S. O'BRIEN: As you know, the Joint Chiefs' Peter Pace has said for those generals who are now complaining, and anybody who's complaining should have taken the opportunity to complain while you were on the job. You have the responsibility and, you know, and the onus was on you to make your perspective clear while you were actually in charge of the troops.

ZINNI: Well, first of all, I retired before the Iraqi mission took on.

But I want to say that in my time, when I was commander of U.S. Central Command, Secretary of Defense Cohen ensured that our views were brought forward, even if they were not in agreement with administration policy. I can name you a number of occasions that even though he didn't agree with my view, he made sure it was heard by the president, by the leading members of Congress. Within the system, you can speak up. Not only within the system in the Department of Defense chain of command, but in your testimonies in Congress.

It hasn't happened sufficiently enough, in my view, with the exception of people like General Shinseki.

S. O'BRIEN: General Anthony Zinni joining us this morning.

Thanks for talking with us, sir.

ZINNI: Thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: It's Thursday. You know what Thursday means?

S. O'BRIEN: A long day.

M. O'BRIEN: It's a long day. But it's particularly...

S. O'BRIEN: Not the weekend.

M. O'BRIEN: ... it's a scintillating day. At 10:30 Eastern time, half an hour after this broadcast...

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, right.

M. O'BRIEN: ... you can participate. You can come live into my office.

S. O'BRIEN: How is that going?

M. O'BRIEN: Well, I've had to clean up the office a little bit. But aside from that, it's -- no. It's been -- it's been very interesting. We get all kinds of questions.

As a matter of fact, Soledad, we're going to preview some of the answers today, before we go to Pipeline at the end of our 9:00 a.m. hour. So we'll do a couple of them here to give you a sense of the kinds of questions...

S. O'BRIEN: Just the answer, no questions?

M. O'BRIEN: No, just -- yes, it'll be just like "Jeopardy."

S. O'BRIEN: The answers are yes...

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Ten.

M. O'BRIEN: So Pipeline is the location to find it, cnn.com/pipeline at 10:30.

In the meantime, what we'd like you to do if you have a question for me or the show in general, am@cnn.com is the place to send it. Send those e-mails now. We'll start put -- cuing them up, putting them in the hopper and we'll answer them a little bit here on this program at the end of the show and also on Pipeline at 10:30 Eastern time.

Pipeline, as you know, is a wonderful service that allows you to see all kinds of CNN products simultaneously coming in.

S. O'BRIEN: It allows you to connect to Miles, just as I get to each and every morning.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, thank you.

You can send in a question, too.

S. O'BRIEN: I might do that.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, I bet you would.

Coming up, a Missouri couple that pulled a onesy, if you know what I mean, over just about everybody's eyes. They said they had sextuplets, but it was all a hoax. We'll ask police why they did it.

S. O'BRIEN: And did you know that as we get older many find their sex lives just aren't what they used to be. How can you get it back on track?

We've got advice from women in their 30s and 40s and 50s.

That's coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM SALT 'N PEPA)

SALT 'N PEPA: Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about all the good things and the bad things that may be. Let's talk about sex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk about sex.

As many women get older, they find it's not what it used to be.

Senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta take a look at sex for women in their 30s and 40s and 50s.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

DR. LINDA KLAITZ, PSYCHOLOGIST: There's been a cultural message that it's OK to enjoy sex.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "SEX & THE CITY," COURTESY HBO)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And speaking of... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, welcome to Rock (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Popular TV shows like "Sex & The City" suggest women in their 30s are open to talking about sex.

But Dr. Linda Klaitz says a lot of women in their 30s are also interested in falling in love and settling down.

KLAITZ: In their 30s, I think there's a huge focus on procreation and finding a partner and having children.

GUPTA: But she says many women in their 30s are juggling too much. Many couples find they're exhausted and have trouble fitting in intimacy.

VICKI SMITH, 34 YEARS OLD: Right now, I'm in the process of creating my career. So sometimes sex takes the back burner.

NANCY ALVILHIERA, 36 YEARS OLD: It's extremely important, you know, for my husband and I have to quality alone time and to be intimate.

KLAITZ: One of the things that I talk about in therapy is how important their intimacy is, because when you are sexually sharing and intimate, there is a release of bonding hormones.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I feel so much better and so much more alive, just so much more womanly, sensual, sexual, which I've never experienced before. So it's all new to me. So that's why I have a lot of enthusiasm for the years ahead. Forget menopause.

GUPTA: But some fortysomething women are beginning to experience menopause and many find their desire for sex declines.

KLAITZ: Hormonal replacement therapy, for many of us, is very helpful.

BENITA ESPOSITO, 54 YEARS OLD: It's not just physical, it's every aspect -- emotional, mental, spiritual.

GUPTA: A lot of women in their 50s say they feel more confident and have more freedom from family and careers.

KLAITZ: Many couples come together in intimacy in their 50s very happily and have a wonderful reconnection.

GUPTA: Some women say the best is yet to come.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In your 50s, you kind of own it a little bit more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But when you think of sexuality in your 50s, what comes to mind?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of it.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: I'm blushing.

Oh my goodness.

Coming up on the program, Tom Cruise at it again, attacking psychiatry. Does anybody care what he says about psychiatry? I don't know. He's no expert, right?

S. O'BRIEN: Apparently he is.

M. O'BRIEN: Apparently he is.

S. O'BRIEN: He says he can cure someone of heroin addiction in three days. Scientology can do that. That's what he's been claiming.

M. O'BRIEN: There you have it.

S. O'BRIEN: And, as you can imagine, doctors not so thrilled with that.

M. O'BRIEN: Submitted for your approval.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Search
© 2007 Cable News Network.
A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us. Site Map.
Offsite Icon External sites open in new window; not endorsed by CNN.com
Pipeline Icon Pay service with live and archived video. Learn more
Radio News Icon Download audio news  |  RSS Feed Add RSS headlines