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CNN LIVE TODAY

Police Arrest Two Duke Lacrosse Players in Rape Investigation; Rumsfeld Offensive; The Mighty Pen; Marking the Centennial of the San Francisco Earthquake

Aired April 18, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We'll go ahead and get started. Big news happening out of North Carolina. The handcuffs come out at Duke. Police arrest two lacrosse players in the ongoing rape investigation. The prosecutor says the third man could be taken into custody very soon. Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty are charged with rape and kidnapping. Seligmann posted a $400,000 bond. Finnerty is in the process of doing the same thing. They were led into jail before dawn this morning. A woman who had been hired as a stripper says three players attacked her at an off-campus party last month.
CNN's Alina Cho is in Durham as this case unfolds this morning. Alina, what can you tell us in addition -- additional information about these two young men who have been arrested?

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of information coming into us right now, Daryn. It has been a very busy morning here in Durham. I do have in my hand a copy of the arrest report which details the charges. Here is what we can tell you about the suspects.

First to Reade Seligmann. He is a 20-year-old sophomore at Duke, a lacrosse player from Essex Fells, New Jersey. The second suspect, Collin Finnerty, 19-year-old sophomore from Garden City, New York. Both are charged with first-degree rape, first-degree forcible rape and kidnapping. Bond was set this morning at $400,000 a piece. Seligmann posted bond and we understand Finnerty is in the process of doing so right now.

Both arrived at the county jail very early this morning around 5:00 a.m. Eastern Time in what one defense attorney called an arranged arrest. Seligmann was wearing a yellow shirt and jeans, Finnerty in jacket and tie. Both were led away in handcuffs and both said nothing as they were led into the jail. Now an attorney for Seligmann did speak to reporters earlier this morning. Here's some of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIRK OSBORN, SELIGMANN'S ATTORNEY: Like I say, it's hard to put in words the unfairness and the injustice of this indictment. We look forward to showing that he is absolutely innocent as soon as we can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHO: That was Attorney Kirk Osborn who called his client, Reade Seligmann and his family, good, strong people. Incidentally, Daryn, he is in the building behind me right now in court working very hard on this case.

KAGAN: So, Alina, the original complaint, I thought, had three alleged assailants but only two people have been arrested so far. What about a third possible arrest?

CHO: Well, that's right. I mean, you know, a lot of people, when the indictments were handed up yesterday, were asking the question, why two arrests, not three arrests, since the alleged victim did accuse three lacrosse players of rape?

Well, we do have an answer to that question. The district attorney, Michael Nifong, just a moment ago released this statement, and I'm going to read part of it to you. It says, "it had been my hope to be able to charge all three of the assailants at the same time, but the evidence available to me at this moment does not permit that. Investigation into the identity of the third assailant will continue in the hope that he can also be identified with certainty."

Nifong also went on to say that it is important that we not only bring the assailants to justice, but that we also, in his words, lift the cloud of suspicion from those team members who were not involved in the assault. A very important part of the story. Of course, we are watching that as this investigation continues. There's something going on right to the left of me. Defense Attorney Bill Thomas just heading into the courthouse right now. We will bring you more information on that in the next hour, Daryn.

KAGAN: A good taste of the media's view that has descended upon the Duke campus. We're going to have more on that with the editor of the Duke newspaper in a bit. Alina Cho, thank you for that.

Well, this Duke case is raising a number of interesting legal issues. Joining me with perspective and expertise, our Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeff, good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.

KAGAN: First, let's look at this list of charges, including first-degree rape, first-degree forcible rape and kidnapping. What do you make of those charges given, according to defense attorneys, there is no DNA evidence.

TOOBIN: Well, you know, our prisons are full of convicted rapists who did not have DNA evidence used against them. DNA is rarely used. I mean it's frequently used now, but in the past it hasn't often been used because it didn't exist and it often doesn't exist in rape cases.

This case will be an interesting test of what some people call the "CSI" effect, which is that jurors, some people say, are starting to expect the kind of center that they see on TV with, you know, with "CSI" and shows like that. And, you know, rape cases are often made simply with eyewitness identification, statements by the accused, statements by the accuser. We'll see if this case holds up without DNA evidence. Lots do.

KAGAN: Our system is supposed to work innocent until proven guilty. This grand jury indictment comes down, you see these two young men being led out of the police car in handcuffs. How does the indictment process work?

TOOBIN: Well, basically what happens is a grand jury meets. Usually it's 24 people. Only a majority is needed to get an indictment. That varies a little by jurisdiction. But it is a much lower standard. And all they need to find is probable cause that these defendants committed a crime. Compare that to a trial jury where a unanimous verdict of 12 is needed by a standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. So it's a much lower standard to get an indictment. And as judges often say, just because someone was charged with something doesn't mean they're guilty.

What happens next is in the next day or so the two defendants will be brought before a judge for an arraignment. And what happens there is they will enter a plea, certainly a plea of not guilty, and the judge will set bail, although bail looks like it's been worked out in advanced. Both defendants will be out by that point.

And then the judge will set a schedule for the trial. Probably a schedule of motions to be filed. There's going to be scientific evidence. This will probable be a fairly complicated trial. So I can't imagine a trial will take place more than -- sooner than a few months from now. But that's what's likely to happen in an arraignment.

KAGAN: And, finally, these indictments were sealed. Is that unusual?

TOOBIN: You know, it is unusual, Daryn. And I have to say, I'm a little puzzled by that because usually sealed indictments are in circumstances where the prosecutor is worried that the defendant is going to flee if he knows he's charged. Here the suspects were all well-known. They really had no particular place to go. They were all represented by lawyers. So I don't quite understand why the prosecutor issued sealed indictments. But it's going to be -- it's unsealed very quickly and I don't think that's going to emerge as a particular import issue.

KAGAN: Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thank you for your expertise.

TOOBIN: See you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Just in the last hour we heard from the cousin of an alleged rape victim, Jackie -- she wants to shield her cousin's identity -- is only using her first name. But she also is speaking out in her cousin's defense as we first heard on CNN's AMERICAN MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKIE, COUSIN OF ALLEGED VICTIM: I think one of the reasons I have spoke out is because I think it's very one-sided. For a long time they were just saying a stripper or an escort and they weren't saying a human, a mother, a student. And that's what she is. She was a student trying to make a living to support her two children who was victimized like so many other women are. Really I just want to let her know that I'm there for her and we all support her as far as my family goes. So we just want to let her know we're there for her because she's been afraid . . .

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And that was a woman who identifies herself only as Jackie, but she is the cousin of the alleged victim in the Duke rape case. And we're going to have a lot more LIVE FROM from Durham coming up in just a little bit.

Meanwhile, it's six minutes past the hour. We move on to other news. This from the Pentagon. The boss there, Donald Rumsfeld, rallying a quick reaction force. Rumsfeld is meeting with retired generals and defense analysts today. It's part of his campaign to mute the critics. They want him to quit over the Iraq War. More now from Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): In Iraq, a five month decline in U.S. casualties is over. Forty-eight American troops killed in the first two weeks of April, compared to 31 for the entire month of March. In Baghdad, a seven-hour firefight took place after 50 insurgents attacked a checkpoint. U.S. forces rushed to respond. In Ramadi, multiple attacks on U.S. and Iraqi positions.

The reality on the ground for U.S. troops is they are still fighting for their lives as the political firestorm rages. All of this fueling disenchantment over the war and those who run it. Particularly Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. The generals who fought in Iraq and think Rumsfeld should go are not backing down.

MAJOR GENERAL JOHN BATISTE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): It's a matter of accountability and competency.

STARR: Rumsfeld's political operatives continue to organize supporters. A "Wall Street Journal" op-ed written by four long- retired generals use his talking points provided by the Pentagon, including the number of meetings Rumsfeld had with his commanders. Even retired generals who say it's not their business to call for Rumsfeld's recognition, say mistakes have been made and are calling now for more troops.

BRIG. GEN. JAMES MARKS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): You can't prosecute a global war on terrorism as aggressively and as thoroughly and as broadly as the United States is doing right now and correctly with the numbers that you have in uniform.

STARR: The former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says the problems in Iraq may be emboldening the critics.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, FORMER JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN (RET.): Political progress in Iraq is not going as well as we had hoped and planned and maybe there's frustration over that as well.

STARR: The Bush administration hopes political progress in Iraq, a new national unity government and a new prime minister will ultimately quiet political critics here in the United States.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Let's get reaction now from the White House. Our White House Correspondent Ed Henry is standing with that.

Ed, good morning.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Well, you know the president on Friday interrupted his Easter vacation at Camp David in order to rush to the defense of his defense secretary, putting out a public statement saying he was fully behind the defense secretary, full public support despite these calls by the retired generals for Rumsfeld to step down. And in case there was any doubt about the president's support, just a few moments ago in the Rose Garden, the president came out even more forcefully behind Rumsfeld. This came after the president had denounced speculation about potential personnel changes. I pressed the president on the fact that he himself had commented on Friday about a potential personnel change. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Mr. President, you make it a practice of not commenting on potential personnel move.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Of course, I did.

HENRY: Calling it speculation.

BUSH: And you can understand why. Because we've got people's reputations at stake. And on Friday I stood up and said I don't appreciate the speculation about Don Rumsfeld. He's doing a fine job. I strongly support him.

HENRY: But what do you say to critics who believe that you're ignoring the advice of retired generals, military commanders, who say that there needs to be a change?

BUSH: I say I listen to all voices, but mine's the final decision and Don Rumsfeld is doing a fine job. He's not only transforming the military, he's fighting a war on terror. He's helping us fight a war on terror. I have strong confidence in Don Rumsfeld. I hear the voices and I read the front page and I know the speculation, but I'm the decider and I decide what is best and what's best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the secretary of defense. I want to thank you all very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: So the president has clearly decided he's sticking with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld despite the critics. He did, though, at that Rose Garden event, announce at least a couple of changes. The U.S. Trade Representative Rob Portman will now become the White House budget director. Portman will be replaced as trade representative by Susan Schwab, who had been his deputy. These are the first moves of Josh Bolten, the incoming chief of staff here at the -- the new chief of staff. He officially took over late on Friday and these are his first moves as the new White House chief of staff. We're expecting many more moves but not the defense secretary, at least according to the president, Daryn.

KAGAN: Get your lineup card ready to rearrange in about the next seven to 10 days. Ed Henry at -- I'm so used to saying on Capitol Hill. I forgot your new digs. At the White House. Thank you, Ed.

HENRY: Thank you.

KAGAN: Well, we have one of our own CNN staffers who has been invited into this meeting today with Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld. That would be Retired General Don Shepherd, one of our CNN military analysts.

General, good morning.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: Tell me about this meeting. How unusual is it for Don Rumsfeld to hold a meeting like this?

SHEPPERD: Well, it's not unusual at all to hold these type of meetings. On the other hand, clearly this one is probably called in response to the furor that's going on over these suggestive resignations by retired generals.

The normal flow of it is, I believe this is the 16th meting that Donald Rumsfeld has had with military analysts. During the war, we met regularly. Then it got to be every month or so and then it's every few months now.

I've attended 12 of the meetings. Secretary Rumsfeld is normally there. He will come in after they've given us briefings on various aspects on the hot topics of the day. He'll have lunch with us. He'll provide Q&A, if you will. The meetings last anywhere -- or the sessions with Secretary Rumsfeld lasted anywhere from 30 minutes to as long -- they have been as long as two hours.

KAGAN: How much notice did you get on this gathering?

SHEPPERD: Late last week. And it came as all of the furor hit over this, Daryn.

KAGAN: And so what's the format once you go?

SHEPPERD: When you go in there, normally you'll go in and you'll be sitting at a table. The attendance is normally anywhere between 15 and 30 people. There will be a lunch -- you know, a sandwich lunch type thing catered later on. You'll normally get a briefing of about an hour and then the secretary and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs normally comes in and both of them answer questions, make themselves available to the audience.

KAGAN: So they feed you. Is this just a gathering of people who are going to pat Don Rumsfeld on the back and say good job?

SHEPPERD: That's the question that always comes up. I don't think he needs patting on the back. On the other hand, the format is a question and answer format. And all of us are interested in one thing, not his leadership style.

We're interested specifically today, what's going on in Iraq? Are things as bad as they seem they are right now? What changes are going to take place in the way you guys are approaching this? That's the format. It has nothing to do with friendship. And, by the way, some people that have been very tough on him will also be there.

KAGAN: So it should be an interesting session. So you have kind of eluded to what your question would be, but specifically your turn comes up, what are you going ask?

SHEPPERD: Well, it's not a question. They go around the table, you raise your hand, you may be called on, you may not. It's kind of like . . .

KAGAN: They treat you like reporters?

SHEPPERD: Yes.

KAGAN: Like scum of the earth?

SHEPPERD: Yes, I would very much compare it to the tenor of a Pentagon press conference. Very tough questions. And Secretary Rumsfeld will give his opinion on what's going on. It's normally something that he's made a decision on. It's the hot topic of the day.

I'll give you an example. When Fallujah was going on, we were in there asking, what in the world are you thinking about? The Fallujah brigade, turning it over to them. Explain what you're thinking about on this. That type of question. It's respectable, as is the Pentagon press conference. The questions get tough. It's not a heated atmosphere and it's certainly not a group of friends. That's now what it's about.

KAGAN: Are you hopeful you're going to get some answers that you'll be satisfied with?

SHEPPERD: Yes, I think there will be very little focus on the current controversy going over. I really want to hear, tell me what is currently going on in Iraq because it appears the war is not going well. Is that true? And what, if anything, are you going to change out there to make it better? KAGAN: Well let me ask you flat out, do you think Donald Rumsfeld, at this point, should resign as defense secretary?

SHEPPERD: That's between him and the president. On the other hand, let me tell you, it would be very inopportune time. With two and a half years left in this administration, by the time you've got a new secretary confirmed, he would barely have time to find out where he goes in the Pentagon and what the issues are. He would not be able to get his arms around it. I think this administration needs to be held responsible. I think it would be very inopportune time for a secretary of defense to resign with not much time left to effect the outcome.

KAGAN: Clearly some of these recently retired generals who have come out and spoken out against Donald Rumsfeld considered that same time line. What do you make of those people coming out and speaking at this time?

SHEPPERD: Yes, look, these are good people. These are not a bunch of wackos just mouthing off out there. They have thought carefully about what they're doing. They feel sincerely about it. I think they're wrong. I think for a retired general, it's a time of war, to be calling for the resignation of a secretary of defense is sitting and trying to prosecute a very difficult war that has some real problems with it, I don't think it's a smart thing to do. They feel different. Long live America.

KAGAN: Retired Air Force General Don Shepperd. General, good luck getting good answers and I hope they serve you a nice lunch.

SHEPPERD: A pleasure.

KAGAN: As well. General, thank you.

And CNN will have coverage all day on Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his campaign to hold on to his job.

A horrible crime and an anguished community. Ahead on LIVE TODAY, he faces the fury of small-town Oklahoma after the death of a 10-year-old girl.

And San Francisco is remembering the big one today, but will this century have its own great quake? We look back but we're also looking ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The disappearance of Natalee Holloway. We may learn more today. A 19-year-old Aruban who was arrested over the weekend is due in court. An Aruban newspaper identifies him as Geoffrey von Crombert (ph). The teen is not necessarily a suspect. Aruban law allows a person to be held for questioning. It's been nearly 11 months since Holloway was last seen at a night club as she was leaving with three young men. She was in Aruba celebrating her high school graduation.

Small town Oklahoma, murder leaving a community shocked and furious today. The man charged with killing Jamie Rose Bolin is now sitting in jail and prosecutors are revealing sickening details of this crime. Here's our Ed Lavandera in a story you may have seen first on "Paula Zahn Now."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE SHWARTZ: Let's string him up! Let's string him up! Let's string him up! Baby killer!

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Armed with a lasso and a bucket, this man expressed his anger just outside the courtroom where Kevin Ray Underwood was making his first court appearance.

SHWARTZ: It could have been one of my kids. Let's string him up! String him up! Hang him!

LAVANDERA: Tension was running high in this small Oklahoma town as prosecutors revealed the horrifying details of how 10-year-old Jamie Rose Bolin was murdered and promised to seek the death penalty for the accused killer. The target of this anger was a 26-year-old man who's described himself as troubled. In a brief court appearance, Kevin Ray Underwood was shackled around the waist and wrists and around his ankles. The judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf and appointed defense attorneys. Jamie Rose Bolin's relatives said seeing Underwood made them sick.

LINDA CHILDS, VICTIM'S AUNT: My stomach started to turn. I went numb. I just -- I wanted to look at him. I didn't want to look at him. I wanted to see if he was sad. I wanted to see if he was proud. I just -- I wanted a lot of things.

LAVANDERA: Underwood sat emotionless, a hollow look on his face. Internet diaries written by Underwood paint a picture of a man who struggled with depression and isolation. The online blogs date back several years. In them Underwood writes that he is single, bored and lonely. In 2004 he wrote, "my fantasies are getting weirder and weirder. Dangerous weird. If people knew the kind of things I think about anymore, I'd probably be locked away." And in perhaps the most chilling entry he writes, "if you were a cannibal, what would you wear to dinner?" Underwood's family did not appear at the court hearing, but the Purcell police chief says they had a tearful meeting on Easter Sunday at the jail.

POLICE CHIEF DAVID TOMPKINS, PURCELL POLICE: The father and the mother got to speak with Kevin yesterday for about 20, 25 minutes. It seemed to help them out, the family out, a lot. Both of them were emotional to each other, you know, from what I could see.

LAVANDERA: Jamie Rose Bolin's family says they hold no ill will toward Kevin Underwood's family. In the meantime, the man accused of committing this small town's most gruesome and heinous murder is on suicide watch while he sits in a jail cell all by himself.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Purcell, Oklahoma.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: A missing girl is found alive and now her former preacher is facing charges. The mother of 15-year-old Elizabeth Thomsen says the girl was found in a Maryland motel with the family's former pastor. Family members are on their way from upstate New York to pick her up. Fifty-four-year-old Lewis Lee resigned as the pastor of the family's church in January. That was shortly after he was charged with stalking the girl.

Remember all those mobile homes that were sitting unused in Arkansas? Well, they're finally being moved. But wait till you find out where they're going.

Also, his cartoons either crack you up or they really tick you off. The Pulitzer committee thought he was the best this year. We're going to look at the cartoons and visit with Mike Luckovich just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We're getting close to an hour that the markets has been open. The Dow is moving up rather nicely for a Tuesday. It's up 56 points. Not a lot of movement on the Nasdaq. It is up 11 points.

Big honor for editorial cartoonist Mike Luckovich of the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution." Won the Pulitzer Prize for his editorial cartoons. Just found out yesterday. We told him to come across the street.

MIKE LUCKOVICH, EDITORIAL CARTOONIST: I know it.

KAGAN: Say, hey, bring some cartoons. Welcome and congratulations.

LUCKOVICH: Thank you very much. Thank you.

KAGAN: Oh, but, yawn, yawn, this is the second time that you've won.

LUCKOVICH: Yes. I won 10 years -- I think 10 or 11 years ago. So this is the second one.

KAGAN: Better the first time or the second time?

LUCKOVICH: You know, that -- it's hard to say. I think that the first time I was just kind of numb and this time I can kind of experience it a little bit more.

KAGAN: It's a good thing either way.

LUCKOVICH: The first time I was drunk. So I -- no.

KAGAN: Well, that's a story for another time.

LUCKOVICH: Yes. Yes.

KAGAN: Let's get to some of the cartoons that you submitted.

LUCKOVICH: All right. All right. All right. Well, you know . . .

KAGAN: This first one.

LUCKOVICH: Well, Katrina was a huge thing. And so when it initially happened and we saw the incompetence and the way the government dropped the ball, this is the cartoon I drew. I've got a hand labeled New Orleans going under the water and you see the government is Uncle Sam. He's a -- what do you call those guys?

KAGAN: Lifeguard.

LUCKOVICH: Thank you, Daryn. Thank you.

KAGAN: Bit words. I do the words, you do the drawing. What a team.

LUCKOVICH: And he's saying, "just a sec, I misplaced my whistle."

KAGAN: Ah, very good.

Now on to one that I think was probably your most controversial of the year.

LUCKOVICH: Yes. Yes.

KAGAN: Because we've had you on talking about this one before.

LUCKOVICH: Right. Right. This -- when the 2,000th soldier had died in Iraqi, I sat down at my kitchen table and I drew this and I wrote why and I used all the names of all the troops that had been killed up to that point. To question why we're even there and also to personalize the losses. You know, so often the -- our troops are dying and they're being blown up and it's not even on the front page anymore. And so I wrote out each of these. And it was emotional because each of these names, you know, they're Hispanics and Asians and men and women, young and old who have given their lives and . . .

KAGAN: Now when you did this, this got a huge reaction. Some people came back with why not? There were some families who had lost family members over there that said that you offended them. That you were questioning the sacrifice that their loved ones made in Iraq. What do you say to them?

LUCKOVICH: Right. No, you know, the troops that are over there are heroes and they have more guts than I ever would, so I truly respect them. What I don't respect is going to war based on falsehoods. And, you know, Rummy is fighting for his job. You know, I think they ought to boot him.

KAGAN: Now this is a good point to -- a time to bring up. You know, every time we have you on the e-mail explodes.

LUCKOVICH: Yes. I'm sorry. Yes. Yes.

KAGAN: And they're like, you know, this is how CNN's liberal. We put on a liberal cartoonist. We don't put on a conservative. We're not representing the conservative standpoint. Do you make any apologies for having a political point of view? That's kind of what they -- that's what they pay you for.

LUCKOVICH: No, I'm a -- you know what, that's -- I'm an editorial cartoonist and I have a blog, ajc.com, and every day they -- my cartoon is posted there. And it's great because on that blog you have right wingers and left wingers and they both get on there and they argue the issues. And I'm trying to make people think. And that's my job. And so I don't apologize for that. And I think that the most effective editorial cartoons are ones that have a hard- hitting point. So I just feel like I'm doing my thing.

KAGAN: Do you ever look at a conservative editorial cartoonist and you might completely disagree what he or she -- what their point -- but going, you know what, that's a really good cartoon?

LUCKOVICH: All of the time. You know, I have numerous friends of mine that are conservative cartoonists.

KAGAN: Some of my best friends are conservative!

LUCKOVICH: Some of them. Yes, yes. And yes, I mean, you know, it's interesting, the polarization in this country. I think it's very interesting. It's almost like the left and the right are almost wired differently. And, you know, I'm probably not helping heal the polarization with my cartoons.

KAGAN: But that's not your job. Let's see a couple more of your cartoons...

LUCKOVICH: No, all right. All right.

KAGAN: ... before we let you go.

LUCKOVICH: Now, I'm Catholic and I disagree with the Catholic Church often on various things. Like, for instance, I think gays should be priests. I think as long as, you know, people keep their yards mowed. That's the only problem I have with people being...

KAGAN: That should be the yardstick of criteria...

LUCKOVICH: Yes, yes.

KAGAN: ... if you're a priest?

LUCKOVICH: You know, let people do what they want to. But when it comes to priests, I've done numerous cartoons on this. This one is -- this was after the Vatican banned homosexuals from the priesthood. And so I have a bishop or someone, he's looking down and he's saying -- looking down at his vestment, and he's saying, does this make me look gay?

KAGAN: Very funny. Let me ask you this. So you pretty much submit every year for the Pulitzer?

LUCKOVICH: Yes. Yes.

KAGAN: And any idea why this year they went yes, Mike...

LUCKOVICH: You know, I put a crisp $5 bill in my entry.

KAGAN: That's...

LUCKOVICH: And I think that may have had something to do with it. No, I don't know. I can't answer that, but...

KAGAN: Who are we to question why? Just say thank you.

LUCKOVICH: Exactly.

KAGAN: Very good. Well, congratulations. You do fine work. And yes, whether people like you or not, you certainly make people think.

LUCKOVICH: I hope so, thank you.

KAGAN: Mike Luckovich. You can check him out at ajc.com.

LUCKOVICH: That's right.

KAGAN: Or here actually by an old-fashioned newspaper here in Atlanta.

LUCKOVICH: Exactly.

KAGAN: Go figure.

LUCKOVICH: That would be great.

KAGAN: Mike, thank you. Congratulations.

LUCKOVICH: Thank you, Daryn. Thank you.

KAGAN: Coming up, we're going to look back at the day that the earth shook, the great quake of 1906. It rocked San Francisco a century ago today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May I ask everyone to have a moment of silence, please? And those that perished during the fire, and in their memory, a moment of silence...

KAGAN: These scenes from San Francisco early this morning, as San Francisco remembers a great tragedy, the earthquake that leveled the city a century ago today. And those ceremonies marked the exact moment the earth shook. Lessons from the past 100 years are supposed to help the city stare down the next big one. Is San Francisco ready, though?

CNN's Peter Viles takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Looking at San Francisco, it is hard to believe that nearly 90 percent of it burned to the ground a hundred years ago. Hard to believe that neighborhoods like Telegraph Hill were blackened and bare, that the domed city hall collapsed in just seconds, that the city that called itself "the Paris of the Pacific" looked like it had been bombed and burned.

JAMES DALESSANDRO, AUTHOR, "1906": It was just massive, massive devastation. It looked like Dresden or Tokyo during the second world war. The United States had never seen anything like that destruction.

VILES: Seven point eight in magnitude, the quake along the San Andreas fault lasted nearly a full minute. Within twenty minutes, fires broke out and with water supplies cut off, the city burned for three days. In the chaos, Mayor Eugene Schmitz made two catastrophic decisions.

DALESSANDRO: Number one, that anyone suspected of looting or any crime could be shot on site. The army, National Guard and special police forces shot dozens of people, many of them innocent people. Eugene Schmitz also authorized the use of dynamite.

VILES: Dynamite was intended to create fire breaks to stop the fire. It was a spectacular failure.

PHILIP FRADKIN, AUTHOR, "THE GREAT EARTHQUAKE": The natural reaction of people without ability to fight fire is to fight it with whatever they have. The explosives just spread the flames.

VILES; And then in a cover-up to protect the city's ability to raise money for rebuilding, city leaders said only 478 had died. Historians now believe several thousand were lost.

ANNEMARIE CONROY, S.F. EMERGENCY SERVICES: I don't think you can get any accurate count from 1906. Mayor Schmitz did not want big numbers going out to the public and to the world of what had happened in San Francisco.

VILES: October 17, 1989, the city was rocked again. Freeways buckled, houses collapsed, 63 died. Again, was there fire. But this was not the big one. Six point nine in magnitude, it was centered 60 miles south.

Earthquakes still cannot be predicted, but heeding the lessons of Katrina, the city is urging residents to be prepared, to stockpile food and water.

CONROY: We learned that we really do need to be self-sufficient for a minimum of 72 hours.

VILES: In recent decades, office towers and large buildings like city hall have been built or renovated to survive a major earthquake. But the city expects thousands of old homes would collapse. Historian Philip Fradkin has written that an 8.0 during school hours could kill 70,000 people.

FRADKIN: There's no way the city's not going burn again. You may have structures with metal on the outside and masonry, but you have very flammable interiors.

VILES: Preparation, he says, is no match for an 8.0.

FRADKIN: Maybe you'll survive, maybe you won't. They're random, chaotic events and whether you live or survive is a random choice, too.

VILES: Ultimately, the legacy of 1906 is one of survival of the city that appeared dead and, miraculously, came back to life.

Peter Viles for CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Let's talk more about this, which was a defining moment for epic disasters, as this great quake hit. Once again, it was 100 years ago today. Thousands died in that earthquake and the fires that followed. Twenty-eight thousand buildings were destroyed. More than half of the city's residents found themselves suddenly homeless.

History James Dalessandro is the author of the novel "1906," and he worked on a National Geographic special about the great quake. He joins me from where else? San Francisco. Good morning.

DALESSANDRO: Good morning, Daryn. Thank you for having me.

KAGAN: I think you're fascinating to get the story behind the story. So let's get right to -- skipping past the actual quake, which was devastating enough -- but these fires that engulfed the city of San Francisco.

DALESSANDRO: Well, there were 52 fires that broke out within a matter of minutes in San Francisco, and the water supply had ruptured, two of the main water lines into the city of San Francisco. So they resorted to the use of dynamite, the military mostly, and they used granulated dynamite and black powder, two very flammable substances. And every time they blew up a building, the fiery debris rained down on other buildings and just exacerbated the damage rather than controlled it.

KAGAN: It amazes me how many similarities there are to the aftermath of Katrina, including people not having the right kind of insurance. With Katrina, it was not having flood insurance. Here, they didn't have earthquake insurance, but they did have fire insurance. So some people set their own homes on fire.

DALESSANDRO: Well, there were some incidences of that. They might not have had to do that, Daryn. The fire was on its way anyway. There were some of those. I think the real parallel is the fact that there were warning signs. Everyone knew that New Orleans is a city below water. It's surrounded by water in the middle of a hurricane zone. San Francisco had been warned by their fire chief repeatedly, that he had requested money to build a massive supplemental fire- suppression system. They ignored him. And...

KAGAN: Why did he have the political clout to get the attention he need?

DALESSANDRO: Well, that's the age-old question, isn't it? Listen to your fire chief, I guess is a good message. I don't know the answer to that question, Daryn. City hall at that time was very corrupt. They were much more interested in lining their pockets than they were in caring for the citizens. There was a great deal of complacency. There were many, many lessons between then and now I think that would behoove to finally learn some of those lessons.

KAGAN: I want to get to one of those lessons in a moment, but first, what about the window that's open for discriminating against immigrants that has helped build up the city.

DALESSANDRO: Well, one of the first thing they did was they tried to take the Chinese from their neighborhood. They tried to relocate them to another section of San Francisco. It was a heinous thing. The empress Dao Jira (ph) of China sent a telegram to the White House, to Theodore Roosevelt, suggesting if we ever want to do business with the Chinese, that might be a bad idea.

KAGAN: And what do you think then, finally, is the big lesson learned from San Francisco, and were they learned?

DALESSANDRO: Well, I like to say that if history teaches us anything, it's the fact that history rarely teaches us anything, and maybe it's time to change that. Maybe it's time to look at this extraordinary story, examine exactly what happened here, and realize that history is a great teacher. It's perhaps the ultimate teacher, and that, you know, we do not need to be repeating these lessons, you know. Katrina should wake us up. The 1906 earthquake should wake us up. What happened in the Indian Ocean should wake us up. It's time to take a different course and realize that we're here for the long haul and we better do something about some of these problems, and organize, and prepare and end this complacency.

KAGAN: James Dalessandro, tell us what when we can see the special on the National Geographic Channel.

DALESSANDRO: The repeat is on Thursday night. It's a very ambitious production by National Geographic Channel. You'd have to check your local listings, but it's a pretty ambitious, pretty spectacular thing they did. They really focused on the individual stories. They did a lot of recreations. The visuals are extraordinary. It was done in high definition. So I think it will be very interesting.

KAGAN: We will look for it. James, thank you for your expertise.

DALESSANDRO: Thank you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Appreciate your time.

We're going to talk more about earthquakes in the next hour. Coming up, a possible 21st century disaster. How about this idea? Thirty-seven hundred people dead, $70 billion in damage. But this massive quake wouldn't hit California. We'll reveal the unlikely epicenter.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We're getting word here at CNN that there are some new developments in the Duke situation, and one of the suspects was just in court and just came out of the courthouse. We'll go live at the top of the hour back to Durham and Alina Cho when we get to that.

(MARKET REPORT)

KAGAN: And this just in to CNN. We have new pictures coming in from Durham, North Carolina. This is Collin Finnerty, one of the young men who had been arrested on rape charges, a member of the Duke lacrosse team. He and Reade Seligmann were charged with first-degree rape, first-degree forcible rape, and kidnapping in connection with an attack that allegedly lead took place at an off-campus house on March 13th, when a woman said she was hired as a stripper, said that she was later attacked.

We're going to have more on that situation, and those arrests and that court appearance at the top of the hour with Alina Cho, but we wanted to show you these new pictures as they came to here at CNN.

As we move on, almost 10 minutes past the hour, perhaps you've reached a point in your life where you have money to spend. But the question is, should you really do that?

Valerie Morris takes a look at finding a good financial adviser in this "At This Age: the 40s."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I'm 45 years old and I'm wondering how I could find a good, trustworthy financial adviser.

VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The first step in choosing a solid adviser is understanding what different financial advisers do. Some are geared toward individual planning, while others are not. For instance, Mary Claire Alvine (ph) says, as a certified financial planner or CFP, she handles retirement planning, estate planning, investment planning, employee benefit taxes and insurance.

Then there are certified financial analysts, who are known as CFAs. Kay Shirley (ph), president of Financial Development Corporation, says these professionals are more likely to analyze stocks than handle personal planning.

Financial planners get paid in a variety of ways. Some charge hourly fees, some charge fixed retainer fees and some receive a transaction fee each time you buy or sell something.

For more information on this subject, call the National Association of Personal Financial Advisers at 1-800-366-2732. Answering your questions at this age, I'm Valerie Morris in New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Next week "At This Age" looks at the 50s. Valerie Morris offers ideas on maintaining a solid financial base for retirement.

A woman who killed a boy 30 years ago has been captured. Few are still living to tell the story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm the only principle from that trial that's still alive. The prosecutor passed away, the judge passed away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: An 87-year-old killer comes face-to-face with her victim's family. That story is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Today we are traveling through the underwater world. Oceans cover 71 percent of the Earth's surface, but this vast territory remains largely unexplored. That could soon change. "Welcome to the future."

It's like going to another planet. It's a totally different thing than anything you can experience on land.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRAHAM HAWKES, FOUNDER, HAWKES OCEAN TECHNOLOGIES: It's like going to another planet. It's a totally different thing that anything you can experience on land.

We've just got this tiny little surface layer of water in the ocean that we can actually go and explore. The problem with scuba, you've got to watch that gauge all the time and suddenly I'm out of air and I have to come back up.

Every time we go a little deeper, we find a whole new layer of life. The question is what else is down there? I'd love to see the day when we have readily accessible vehicles that allow us to go down and spend some time with the fish in deeper water.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): So would a lot of others. Yet the mysteries that lie deep beneath the surface of the sea have been out of reach for most of us. But maybe not for long. Imagine a private submarine that could take you well beyond the limits of mask, fins and scuba tanks.

HAWKES: I'm right alongside of a manta ray. O'BRIEN (voice-over): Graham Hawkes, founder of Hawkes Ocean Technologies, has created a vehicle that can fly through water.

HAWKES: And the Wright Brothers really did that a hundred years ago. But we're taking that into this big deep blue space.

O'BRIEN: Built like a jet, these winged submersibles dive more than 1,500 feet, with speeds up to 12 knots.

HAWKES: But in terms of filming and studying animals, it's going to be a whole new ball game. You can put on a big suction cup on the front and try and grab animals out of the water.

O'BRIEN: But you don't have to be a marine biologist to get in on the fun. Hawkes' flight schools let amateurs become deep sea explorers. And Hawkes' ultimate goal? To reach the deepest depths of the ocean, about 37,000 feet below.

HAWKES: Just Google this planet and you'll see it's all blue. Our future lies with understanding and exploring the oceans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: By the way, Graham Hawkes thinks, and he told us that he thinks, that winged submersibles eventually be as common as small airplanes and comparable in cost. So one day, we just might see people getting their pilot's license to soar underwater.

The Duke rape investigation. Two lacrosse players are arrested and two campuses see two very different cases. We'll have the view live from Durham.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is my fervent hope that you go straight from the penitentiary to hell. Some say there is no difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Yes, that's the judge. Angry words as a convicted rapist faces his victim. That story is straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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