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Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld Not Taking Much Criticism To Heart; Possibly More Staff Changes At White House; Gas Prices Sky High; One Man Describes Osama bin Laden As Lousy Boss; Hillary-isms; New Technology Makes It Easier To Travel Underwater
Aired April 18, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, new developments in the war of words over Donald Rumsfeld.
It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington, where President Bush got all riled up about the attacks on his Pentagon chief. If Rumsfeld isn't going, who might be shown the door?
Also this hour, a new outcry about gas prices. With fuel costs souring again, angry fingers are being pointed at oil companies. Are they guilty of price gouging?
And Hillary Clinton's greatest gaffs. A new book mocks the senator's words, but did all the Hillaryisms, as they're called, actually come out of her mouth? Tonight, the quotes, the controversy, our Jeanne Moos.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
His defense secretary is under fire from some retired U.S. generals who are calling for his resignation, but President Bush today minced no words, left no doubt, and made it crystal clear he's sticking with Donald Rumsfeld. Listen to this exchange he had with CNN White House Correspondent Ed Henry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, you made it a practice of not commenting on potential personnel moves, calling it speculation
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Of course I did. You can understand why, because we've got people's reputations at stake. And on Friday, I stood up and said, "I don't appreciate the speculation about Donald Rumsfeld."
He's doing a fine job. I strongly support him. HENRY: Well, what do you say to critics who believe that you're ignoring advice of retired generals, military commanders who say that there needs to be a change?
BUSH: I say that I listen to all voices, but mine's the final decision. And Don Rumsfeld is doing a fine job. He's not only transforming the military, he's fighting a war on terror. He's helping us fight a war on terror.
I have strong confidence in Don Rumsfeld. I hear the voices, and I read the front page, and I know the speculation. But I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. And what's best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the secretary of defense.
I want to thank you all very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Firing back at his critics, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld today went on the offensive with a public relations campaign. And while President Bush is standing by his defense secretary, he indicates a shuffle of other administration officials is under way.
CNN' White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is standing by, but let's go to the Pentagon first. Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, has the latest -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is not taking much of this criticism to heart, and he's making it clear he's not go any place anywhere -- any time soon. It was the same message he delivered both in a public press conference and in a meeting behind closed doors.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): If Donald Rumsfeld is feeling embattled, he didn't show it in a private two-hour meeting with 15 military analysts, including CNN's own retired Major General John Shepperd.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: I was surprised. He was really in a good mood. He was not troubled, he was not furrowed in the brow, if you would have it.
MCINTYRE: Earlier, armed with a fresh endorsement from the president, Rumsfeld made it clear he won't be offering to resign again, as he did two years ago in the wake of the Abu Ghraib scandal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why in one case and not the other?
RUMSFELD: Oh, just call it idiosyncratic.
MCINTYRE: Asked if he was dismissive or contemptuous of military advice, Rumsfeld responded with a 10-minute recitation of his accomplishments, leaving Joint Chiefs chairman, General Pete Pace, to jump to his defense. GEN. PETER PACE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: There are multiple opportunities for all of us, whatever opinions we have, to put them on the table. And all the opinions are put on the table. But at the end of the day, after we've given our best military advice, somebody has to make a decision.
RUMSFELD: And when you make a decision, you make a choice, somebody's not going to like it.
MCINTYRE (on camera): In this "Wall Street Journal" opinion piece that was written yesterday by a number of retired generals, it was -- said that some feel that you have been unfair, arrogant and autocratic. And this was from your supporters. How much do you think is this about your management style and...
RUMSFELD: No idea.
MCINTYRE: Are you arrogant and autocratic?
RUMSFELD: You know me.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: I do know the secretary to be both decisive and at times dismissive. He's also determined not to be driven from office by generals who he sees as resistant to change -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie, thanks very much.
And this note to our viewers. Coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, I'll speak with General Shepperd, our CNN military analyst. He was among those retired generals who met inside the Pentagon with Rumsfeld earlier today.
Meanwhile, there are new developments in the White House shuffle. Today, the president nominated trade representative Rob Portman to be the new budget chief and he tapped Portman's deputy, Susan Schwab, to replace her boss as the top trade negotiator. Are there more changes in the works right now?
Let's bring in our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux.
Are there, Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, CNN has learned through various Republican sources that, of course, Josh Bolten, the chief of staff, has been looking at two areas. One, legislative affairs, the other, White House communications, specifically the position of White House press secretary.
CNN has learned through those sources that Bolten a couple of weeks ago at the White House did reach out to Tony Snow. He is the FOX News anchor and a conservative radio talk show host. He used to be a speechwriter for President Bush's father. Snow has refused to comment on this story, but those same Republican sources saying some discussions as well involving those who used to be inside of the White House, including former Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols, as well as the former Pentagon spokeswoman, Torie Clarke. But again, Wolf, today the president making it very clear, despite any discussions or outreach regarding possible personnel changes, ultimately he's the one who makes the call -- Wolf.
BLITZER: So, is it just -- are they talking about White House staff positions that might be changed? What about all the talk over the past several weeks about the Treasury secretary, for example, John Snow?
MALVEAUX: Well, it's interesting today because President Bush made a very general statement, but he also said that he has confidence in all of his cabinet secretaries. That seemed to give a bit --a bit more bolstered support, if you will, for his Treasury secretary, John Snow. There are a lot of discussions, however, that he has been intending to leave the administration for some time.
BLITZER: Suzanne, thanks very much.
This footnote. In the past couple weeks, Torie Clarke, a CNN political contributor, said right here in THE SITUATION ROOM she's really not interested in going back into the White House, at least not now. We'll see what happens on that front.
Let's check in with our Zain Verjee. She's joining us from the CNN global headquarters with a close look at some other headlines making news.
Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf.
The president of China arrives in Washington -- Washington State, that is. President Hu Jintao arrived in Seattle today for a four-day stay in the United States. While there, President Hu toured the production plant of the aircraft manufacturer Boeing. He also had dinner with Microsoft chairman Bill Gates. On Thursday, President Hu Jintao will meet with President Bush in Washington, D.C.
In New York, some commuters just trying to head home are instead stuck on two overhead cable cars. The cars are called trams and they run between New York's Roosevelt Island and Manhattan. Right now, New York police are saying that dozens of passengers are stranded on the trams after a power outage. Crews on the scene are desperately working to restore power. No injuries have been reported.
They're accused of rape, but their lawyers say police have the wrong men. Today, in North Carolina, two members of Duke University's lacrosse team were arrested and charged in connection with the alleged rape of an African-American exotic dancer.
Twenty-year-old Reade Seligmann and this 19-year-old, Collin Finnerty, both face charges. Meanwhile, sources tell CNN that the defense claims to have evidence that neither man was even at the scene at the time of the alleged rape.
And dentists have long used it to fill in damaged or decaying teeth. Now two government-sponsored studies find no evidence that dental fillings containing mercury may harm children. At issue was whether or not the dental fillings, also called silver fillings, cause brain damage or other neurological problems in children. The two long-awaited studies say that there is no evidence to support that.
And Wolf, this just coming into CNN. It's news of fans of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes that they have been waiting for. Only moments ago, CNN confirmed that TomKat, as the couple is known, have had their baby, and it's a girl.
Her name is Suri, and she weighs in at 7 pounds and 7 ounces.
Wolf, I know you and especially Jack have been waiting, you know, very excitedly for that news.
BLITZER: Well, congratulations to the couple. Seven pounds, 7 ounces, Jack, that's a pretty nice-sized baby.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it is. Can we get the address of the hospital? Is it too soon to send the kid a sympathy card?
(LAUGHTER)
VERJEE: Jack! Jack!
BLITZER: It's too soon, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Al Gore is back. This time it will cost you to see him.
The former vice president's featured in the film "An Inconvenient Truth," which opens in theaters in May. It's a documentary. It follows Gore and his fight against global warming from when he was a student at Harvard until today.
Since losing the 2000 presidential race, Gore has spent much of his time traveling the world and lecturing about what he calls a planetary emergency. The columnist Richard Cohen writes that, although this film is about the most boring of topics, it will ultimately captivate, rivet and scare you because of where planet Earth is headed. Cohen writes, "It may be that Gore will do more good for his country and the world with this movie than Bush ever did by beating him in 2000."
Here's the question: Should politicians like Al Gore be making movies?
E-mail your thoughts to caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Jack. We'll get back to you later this hour.
Coming up, gas prices sky high at the pump. Are oil companies gouging consumers, or is it simply a matter of supply and demand? We'll find out why one U.S. senator wants a federal investigation right now.
Plus, bad management? Find out why Osama bin Laden is getting a bad review from a fellow terrorist. We have the inside story. Brian Todd on that.
And Hillaryisms, sayings that could come back to bite. Only our Jeanne Moos has a look at the book, the controversy, what's going on with the former first lady.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're following a developing story right now that affects all of our money, our cars, whether we're going to get a free ride, or whether we're being taken for a ride. With gas prices already sky high, are we paying even more than we should be?
Let's bring in our Mary Snow. She's joining us from New York with details -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as gas prices top $3 in many cities, some are questioning whether price gouging is partly to blame. Here in New York, Senator Charles Schumer asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate whether the oil industry is withholding supply. It's something the industry denies, but that hasn't silenced critics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice over): Gas prices are the highest they've been since just after Hurricane Katrina. Oil hit a new record, topping $71 a barrel. Skeptics are questioning whether it's all justified by oil and gas companies.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Are they doing this dictated by the laws of supply and demand, or is something else at work?
SNOW: At the White House, the president spelled out what that something else could mean.
BUSH: And I'm also mindful that the government has the responsibility to make sure that we watch very carefully and investigate possible price gouging, and we'll do just that.
SNOW: High prices took center stage when lawmakers grilled CEOs last month, questioning companies like ExxonMobil's $36 billion profit last year and its $400 million retirement package for the outgoing chairman Lee R. Raymond.
MEL FUGATE, SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY: Are they going to, you know, concentrate all these resources in executive compensation? Could they return them to shareholders? Could there be some sort of consumer relief? SNOW: We called ExxonMobil for comment. They referred us to the American Petroleum Institute, which says refineries are still recovering from Hurricane Katrina last year but blames most of the higher prices on crude oil.
SARA BANASZAK, AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE: Fifty-nine percent of the price you pay at the pump is just the cost of acquiring the crude.
SNOW: Others say dependence on oil and gas by both the government and consumers are also to blame.
PHIL FLYNN, ALARON TRADING: It's nice to tell a guy who's mad about paying $3 a gallon when he's filling up his Hummer, saying, "Oh, those darn oil companies are making a lot of money." Sure, it makes them feel good, but it doesn't solve the problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And tonight, North Dakota Democratic Senator Byron Dorgan is calling for an investigation of ExxonMobil's $400 million retirement package, calling it "a shameful display of greed" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary, thank you very much.
Ali Velshi is joining us now with "The Bottom Line" with more from New York -- Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf.
We've got a little more on those oil prices that Mary's talking about. Crude oil was up nearly $1 today, settling again at the highest price it's ever settled at, $71.35 a barrel. The old record was set the week Hurricane Katrina devastated the gulf Coast.
Now, it's a fear factor that's driving these prices up. Supply concerns out of Iran and Nigeria are to blame. They're not new, but oil production is only barely keeping up with rising demand in places like China and India, and that leaves a very slim margin of error if there's any interruption in supply anywhere.
Energy prices could be a touchy subject. As we know, Chinese President Hu Jintao is visiting Washington later this week. The Congressional Budget Office has already come out and said that rising demand in China could add as much as $14 a barrel to oil prices over the next five years.
Now, don't look for relief any time soon. Analysts we've spoken to say we could see oil hit $75 or $80 a barrel by June, although it's $71 now, so who knows?
And while higher oil prices usually hurt stock prices, that wasn't the case today. The Dow registered its biggest point gain in nearly a year.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT) BLITZER: A good day for the markets indeed.
VELSHI: Yes.
BLITZER: Thanks, Ali, very much.
Still to come tonight in THE SITUATION ROOM, fighting the fight in Iraq while the war of words rages on back home. We're going to take you to the front lines to find out how it's all impacting United States Marines on the ground.
Stay with us for that.
Plus, Osama Bin Laden's bad management. A fellow terrorist shares a long list of complaints about his former boss. We have that story as well.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Donald Rumsfeld says no one is indispensable, but the defense secretary still isn't giving into calls for his resignation.
Our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, has been thinking about Donald Rumsfeld and his political predicament -- Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Wolf, since our modern, civilized society has outlawed bear baiting and cockfighting, we have to make do with watching high government officials try to fend off demands for their heads. Donald Rumsfeld is only the latest example. But how do we know when the White House is circling the wagons or greasing the skids?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SPIRO AGNEW, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will not resign if indicted.
GREENFIELD (voice over): Sometimes the reason for the departure is absolutely clear. Vice President Agnew quit in 1973 as part of a plea bargain to stay out of prison for taking bribes.
Agriculture Secretary Earl Butz was fired by President Ford in 1976 for telling an obscene, racist joke.
JAMES CARTER, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our disappointments...
GREENFIELD: And sometimes there is no backroom campaign. President Carter fired four cabinet secretaries in 1979 with virtually no warning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A subject of discussion. It is...
GREENFIELD: Other times, the maneuvering is worthy of a soap opera, or maybe a farce. President Ronald Reagan's chief of staff, Donald Regan, incurred the wrath of staffers for not protecting President Reagan from the Iran-Contra mess and for an imperious style. But when he angered Nancy Reagan, his fate was sealed.
A series of leaks to the media set the stage for Regan's exit. In fact, that was how he learned of his departure.
And when John Sununu, chief of staff of the first President Bush, lost the confidence of his boss -- he'd used White House transportation for personal business, among other things -- stories of his looming exit from insider leaks kept popping up. Finally, George W. Bush was dispatched to let Sununu know it was time to go.
But sometimes it's hard to read the tea leaves or smoke signals from 1600 Pennsylvania. Treasury Secretary John Snow, for example, has supposedly been on his way out for more than a year, but he's still at his post.
And in the case of Donald Rumsfeld, it's not the White House hinting that he should go, it's critics of the Iraq war policy, including those half-dozen retired generals. A critique which obviously implicates President Bush and Vice President Cheney every bit as much as Rumsfeld.
What critics may be hoping for is a policy reversal, the kind that happened during Vietnam when Defense Secretary Robert McNamara was replaced by longtime LBJ ally Clark Clifford. The hawkish Clifford quickly decided the war was unwinnable and persuaded LBJ to move toward negotiation rather than toward further escalation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD: Which raises this small question. In all the clamor over Rumsfeld, is there any suggestion that a new defense secretary might have a new approach that might increase the chances for progress in Iraq -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jeff, thanks very much for that. Good question.
Just ahead, we're taking you to the front lines of Iraq. This is something you're going to want to see, battling on the streets of Ramadi while there's dissent over the war back at home. We'll find out how all of this is playing with U.S. troops who are fighting a war right now.
Plus, Hillaryisms, a look at the quotes that aren't in the record books. We'll tell you what's going on, on that front.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're going to go to Iraq right now to see what's happening with U.S. troops as the debate over Donald Rumsfeld rages on here in Washington. We'll go there in a moment.
First, though, let's bring back CNN's Zain Verjee from the CNN Center with a closer look at some other stories making news -- Zain.
VERJEE: Wolf, more tough talk from Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He issued a defiant warning as the country marked Army Day, saying essentially Iran would cut off the hand of any aggressor. The country's under pressure from the United Nations to stop its nuclear enrichment program. Iran insists that it's for peaceful purposes only.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez says he'll die if he can't talk, but that's exactly what doctors are advising to help him recover from a case of tonsillitis. Chavez is famous for his long-winded speeches which have been known to last as much as eight hours. He says he's taking antibiotics to get better.
Chinese state media say the government plans to seed clouds in an effort to make rain and clear the air. Beijing is choking in the wake of the worst dust storm to hit the city in five years. One paper is reporting that 300,000 tons of sand fell on the capital yesterday, and that prompted numerous health warnings -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much for that.
Let's get back to our top story now. The defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, going on the offensive -- a P.R. offensive, that is. But some retired U.S. military generals calling on him to resign.
Rumsfeld met today with other retired U.S. military officers turned military analysts, but the political intrigue over at the Pentagon involving Rumsfeld's future is a world away for United States troops serving in Iraq. Their focus is fighting a war and staying alive.
CNN's Arwa Damon is with the American forces in the town of Ramadi. It's a report you're about to see only here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let's call it the Swiss cheese building. That's what we call it, the one that's blown up. OK. We need to get down from here.
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In Iraq, the real firefight is between the troops and insurgents...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should just follow...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a mortar. Let's get...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a mortar. Let's pack (ph) it up.
DAMON: ... a world away from the political battle now raging at the Pentagon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.
DAMON: Here, there is no talk of Rumsfeld, no talk of retired generals. This is active duty.
(on camera): This is a complex attack. Mortars were fired, followed by what U.S. Marines initially believed to be a suicide car bomb, and then a sustained gun battle for a couple of minutes. This is a normal occurrence for this location in downtown Ramadi. Attacks like this happen on a daily basis, sometimes four or five times a day, lasting anywhere from 30 seconds to hours long.
(voice-over): The next moments at the governor's compound are hectic. Platoon commander Lieutenant Carlos Getz (ph) puts two phones to his ears, trying to figure out exactly what is going on, resupplying ammunition to the fighting positions almost as fast as Marines are firing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the right, move it.
DAMON: The attack coming from all directions. Quick reaction forces respond, firing two main tank rounds into a mosque where they say they were receiving heavy fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's main tank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gone! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gone! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gone!
DAMON: Gunfire ends. A victory smoke is lit up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know what we've got to do. We know what we're doing. And just know it's the job we've got to do. And we sacrifice what we do for people back home, and hopefully they appreciate that.
DAMON: All these men know the fight will be back again, no matter who stays or goes inside the Pentagon.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Ramadi, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: That is one courageous young reporter, our Arwa Damon on the scene with U.S. troops, in a life-and-death struggle literally in Ramadi right now. We're going to continue to watch this story, get some more reports from Arwa. Those are coming up in the days to come.
Meanwhile, here in Washington, under fire from some retired U.S. military commanders, the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, today met with others who have moved from the military to the news media. Among them, our own military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Major General Don Shepperd. He got the view from the inside. I spoke with General Shepperd earlier in THE SITUATION ROOM immediately after his meeting with Don Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: How did it go? Tell our viewers how the defense secretary specifically responded to all these suggestions from other retired military generals that he step down?
MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Yes, very little, Wolf. Everybody expected the headlines out of this to be the secretary says the following things. And the focus of the meeting was very little on that.
It came up from time to time, mainly from our own questions, but basically, the focus was on how the war in Iraq is going, how it would have been different in the past if, and that type of thing. It was not about the retired generals controversy, although the secretary is clearly distracted by it and worried about it and concerned about it, and he listened to a lot of things from the group.
BLITZER: Well, did anyone, any of the retired generals and admirals who were there, did any of them step up and offer criticism of the secretary of defense?
SHEPPERD: No, it wasn't criticism of the secretary of defense. We basically offered our ideas about the fact of, look, the message is not getting out. If you say that we are doing well in the war, what is the message for the American people? What is the next thing the American people are going to see in the way of an event that they can see some progress?
And the answer was unanimous, from both the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and also the secretary, it is the formation of the Iraqi government. That's the next important event, and from there, the continuing training of the Iraqi forces. That's the message, Wolf.
BLITZER: When you say that it was clear these calls from these retired generals for him to step down, including the commander, the former commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, former commander of the 1st Infantry Division, both of whom served in Iraq, it's weighing heavily on him. What does that mean? How could you tell?
SHEPPERD: Look, he's got to be concerned about this. His words evidence concern, no question about that, but basically General Pace kind of picked up the ball on this and said, look, I don't know where these guys are coming from. We had regular sessions.
The big generals, the combatant commanders, General Franks and the others, two chiefs of staff of the Air Force, two commandants of the Marine Corps, two chiefs of staff of the Army, two chairmen of the Joint Chiefs. All of these people made their inputs, voiced their concerns. We talked it out. Then we all agreed on General Franks' plan that it was a good one. We all had a hand in this.
So the fact that people say they weren't consulted was simply not true. They may not have had their own ideas accepted, but they definitely were consulted, and a lot of people had a voice on this.
BLITZER: How many generals did he invite to this session today?
SHEPPERD: They weren't all generals, by any means. It's the normal -- the usual suspects that you see on TV as analysts and that you read in the print media as well and hear on the radio. There were 15 of us there. I think a group of probably 30 or 40 was invited, and as usual, just about the same size group that we've usually had. It's been as low as 15, as high as about 30.
BLITZER: Was there any moment that really was a sort of a poignant or dramatic moment that stands out in your mind, General Shepperd? A moment of some tension or some humor, if you will?
SHEPPERD: Well, you know, the secretary was really in a good mood, and so was the chairman. These people are not troubled people. They are concerned people, they're concerned about what's going on, but our message to them as analysts was, look, you have got to get the importance of this war out to the American people, and the importance message is that this is a forward strategy.
It is better to fight the war in Iraq than it is the war on American soil. And further, the message needs to be, imagine an Iraq, imagine Iraq under the control of Zarqawi with another conveyor belt for terrorists, combined with oil and water and land and resources. Imagine the effect of that. That's a message that has to get out to the American people, because the American people simply do not feel they're at the (ph) war.
General, both General Pace and also Secretary Rumsfeld basically said, look, we have got to improve our message, we've got to improve our communication. We want to do that, but this is a tough war. It's going to be a long war in many places, and it's not going to be something that's going to come out with a bow in the next year or two years.
BLITZER: One final question, very briefly, General Shepperd. Did you get any indication from the secretary of defense or the chairman of the Joint Chiefs that the Iraqis are about to form a new government, or that they might soon be able to protect themselves, to defend themselves?
SHEPPERD: Basically, they said we are extremely hopeful. We see great indications. They understand the importance of it, but they did not give a timeline or predict. They think it will happen, and they also are very, very -- they are happy with the progress of the Iraqi security forces, but they made this point, and it's a very important point.
Those Iraqi security forces, for them to be loyal to Iraq, the service of Iraq, they have to be loyal to an elected government that is competent. And that's the most difficult challenge in Iraq. It's not the insurgency, it's the formation and election and performance of an Iraqi government that gains the confidence of the people, just like in this country.
BLITZER: General Shepperd is our CNN military analyst. Thanks for joining us, General Shepperd. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this note, I spoke with General Shepperd right after he left today's meeting with the defense secretary. That was a little about three, four hours ago.
Meanwhile, a new move tonight by a top U.S. Senate Democrat that could keep the criticism of Rumsfeld in the spotlight. The number two Senate Democrat, the Minority Whip Dick Durbin, is proposing a symbolic vote in the Senate next week to test support for Rumsfeld. In effect, he wants a vote of no confidence in the defense secretary. We'll see if this proposal goes anywhere.
Up ahead tonight, undisciplined, micromanaging and indiscrete. A terror suspect lets loose on Osama bin Laden, painting him as a bad boss. He used to work with bin Laden. Now he's in U.S. prisons. We'll have details on what's going on.
Plus, some quotable quotes from Hillary Clinton. Are they coming back to haunt the possible presidential candidate? CNN's Jeanne Moos takes a closer look at a new book and the controversy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: He's the leader of a brutal terrorist organization whose business is to harm the United States, but one man describes Osama bin Laden as a lousy boss, comparing him to a meddling micromanager who's bad at his business.
Let's bring in our Brian Todd. He is joining us from the newsroom with more on the story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that one man's opinion matters, Wolf. He is the al Qaeda leader who managed most of the operational details of the September 11 plot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): Does the leader of al Qaeda run a sloppy ship? If you believe what he told interrogators, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the operational mastermind of the September 11th plot, does not think kindly of Osama bin Laden's management style. We went over summaries of Mohammed's interrogation read in court earlier during the Zacarias Moussaoui trial with CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: There were lots of disagreements within the organization about, you know, how to attack the United States, with whom to attack the United States.
TODD: The summaries portray bin Laden as undisciplined, loose- lipped about the operation in the weeks leading up to 9/11. Quote, "bin Laden informed high-level visitors to expect a major near-term attack against U.S. interests, and, during a speech at the al-Faruq camp, he urged trainees to pray for the success of a major operation involving 20 martyrs. BERGEN: This was sort of an open secret and, of course, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the operation commander of the 9/11 attacks was, you know, quite annoyed by this.
TODD: The summaries say Mohammed and another al Qaeda leader were concerned about this lack of discretion and urged bin Laden not to make additional comments about the plot.
Then there is bin Laden the micromanager, insisting that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed used operatives he didn't want, including Khalid Almihdhar, and Nawaf Alhazmi, who were ordered to blend in, in San Diego, and according to Mohammed, couldn't speak English and, quote, "barely knew how to function in U.S. society."
BERGEN: On the other hand, they managed to get through anyway.
TODD: They got through to become part of the hijacking team that crashed American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: How did they manage that? One former top U.S. intelligence official tells CNN Khalid Shaikh Mohammed divided his hijackers into two categories: brains and muscle. Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi, he says, were clearly muscle -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, what else did you pick up that sort of underscored this notion of Osama bin Laden as a bad boss?
TODD: Another person who bin Laden foisted upon, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed -- this is according to the interrogation summaries -- was Mohammed al-Katani (ph). He was going to be the 20th hijacker. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in these interrogations described him as, quote, "an unsophisticated Bedouin who couldn't handle anything in western civilization."
Turns out he might have been right on that. Mohammad al-Katani never made it into the United States. He was turned away at Orlando. He was later captured at a battlefield in Afghanistan and is now at Guantanamo Bay.
BLITZER: Brian, thanks very much for that. Brian Todd reporting.
As nations vie for one of 47 seats on the new United Nations Cuban Rights Counsel, Amnesty International is rolling out an eye- opening project. Just moments ago, it posted online comprehensive human rights records for every country seeking a seat, and you may be surprised to learn which nations want membership.
Our Internet reporter Jackie Schechner has details -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, Amnesty International wants all of those countries that are voting for these seats to be able to have all of the information they have about the countries that are vying for spots. Now, while they won't rank countries by human rights violations, they do have reports that suggest some countries are not as good on human rights issues as others.
For example, let's take a look at Cuba. Two of the covenants that Amnesty says are most important, this one here and this one right here, Cuba has not even signed. Taking a look at China, for example, they have a standing invitation. They don't have this for special procedures. These are independent experts that go into the country, and there's a list on the site of outstanding visit requests.
Another country to take a look at is Iran. Now, they do have a standing invitation and they have ratified those two particular covenants, but they have outstanding visit requests, and Amnesty goes into detail about why those requests were denied -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jacki, for that.
Up ahead: Hillary-isms, sayings that come back to bite. Only Jeanne Moos has this unique perspective on a new book and the controversy.
Plus, love him or hate them, it's the baby news that's been heard now around the world. They have a baby. We have the scoop. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Tonight, Senator Hillary Clinton has something in common with President Bush. She's the subject of a new book about her most memorable and often most embarrassing verbal slip-ups. It's more proof that she's a political lightning rod and a leading presidential contender, but are the quotes in this book all real?
CNN's Jeanne Moos has more on Hillary-isms.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's practically a cottage industry in Bush-isms, presidential sentence mangling that turns phrases like trade barriers and tarrifs into.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Terriers and bariffs.
MOOS: But Hillary-isms? Quotable quotes from Hillary Clinton?
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had tea.
MOOS: She may wished she had stayed home after she sees the new book "I've Always Been a Yankees Fan," featuring Hillary wearing a Cubs cap. No matter that she's already explained she's been a fan of both teams.
CLINTON: I needed an American League team that could win.
MOOS: "Hillary Clinton in her own words," says the cover, though even the author seems to hedge.
THOMAS KUIPER, AUTHOR, "I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A YANKEES FAN": Everything in the book is -- I believe it to be true, but since I wasn't there, I can't verify that it's 100 percent true.
MOOS: Which is what makes it different from say the book of Donald Rumsfeld comments turned into poetry, and even turned into song.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The world thinks all these things happen. They never happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They never happened, never happened
MOOS: The Rumsfeld quotes tend to be on the record, same for the five "Bush-isms" books. The president himself held up a copy.
BUSH: Then there's the most famous statement, rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?
MOOS: The editor of "Slate," who collected the Bush-isms, wasn't so amused with the Hillary book.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just looking at this thing. Every single quote has the F-word in it. This is kind of a Hillary haters fantasy of what Hillary sounds like in Private.
MOOS: Many of the quotes are unverifiable, coming from books attacking the Clintons. The Republican paralegal who compiled the quotes says he's proud of the book, but ...
KUIPER: I think it's a legitimate criticism that the book at times comes off as almost mean-spirited. I had so many sources of her using the profanity, that's just the way it came about.
MOOS (on camera): But if you ask someone who works for Hillary Clinton if this sounds like the Hillary they know, they say no way. She just doesn't talk like that.
(voice-over): At least one remark Hillary allegedly made about her husband, "He's a hard dog to keep on the porch," never appeared in the talk magazine interview that BBC Online said it came from. Some quotes are indisputable.
CLINTON: I'm not sitting here some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette.
MOOS: Question is, who's going to stand by these quotes? Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: That would be Jack Cafferty. Jack, you got "The Cafferty File"? Hillaryisms, what do you make of that?
CAFFERTY: You know, the guy was -- what was that book? "A Million Little Pieces" that was such a best seller and turned out half of it was all made up? At least this guy said up front some of this stuff may not be true. If you want to buy it, buy it.
Want to go to the movies? You can see former vice president Al Gore. He's featured in an upcoming film called "An Inconvenient Truth" which will open in theaters in May. It is a documentary that follows Gore in his fight against global warming from the time he was a student at Harvard University until today.
The question is, should politicians like Al Gore be making movies? Amy in Miami, "Maybe it's a sad commentary that we'll only start to pay attention to the facts of global warming if we think we're going to see a disaster film at the movies."
Bill in Bay City, Michigan. "Nothing Al Gore does or says will make a difference. Mr. Gore's day in the sun passed after he invented the Internet. By the way, is there any truth to the rumor he is singing back up on Neil Young's new album."
Jack in Colonial Beach, Virginia. "If Ronald Reagan and Arnold can be politicians than old Al can make movies. Let's hope this flick is not as boring as he is however. I'd love to see Jack star in a remake of "Network" by the way."
John in Bridgeport, Alabama. "I think Al Gore is, and always has been, a visionary. Movies expressing his philosophies regarding global warming could be very beneficial to people all over the world. We're facing a problem and there don't seem to be that many political leaders who are concerned."
Leo in Spokane Washington. "Should politicians like Al Gore be making movies. Who knows? Should people like Tom Cruise be making babies?"
You know, Wolf, Tom Cruise might be the only guy on the Planet Earth with the potential to make Michael Jackson look like a normal parent.
BLITZER: It's funny you say that, because we've got some new news that Zain Verjee is standing by to share with us about now. Hollywood is all abuzz. Tell our viewers, who may just be tuning in, what CNN has now confirmed.
VERJEE: CNN, Wolf, has confirmed that, as Jack pointed out, that Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise have had a baby. It's called Suri, and Suri is doing quite well tonight. The daughter of one of America's most watched celebrity couple weighs in at seven pounds and seven ounces, and she's 20 inches long. A spokesman for Tom Cruise says Suri was born in Los Angeles, but unfortunately, Jack, no further details about the birth or if it was in fact a silent birth held under the tenants of the Church of Scientology.
According to the Holmes/Cruise camp, the name Suri means princess in Hebrew or red rose in Persian. Wolf, the Tomkitten is here.
BLITZER: All right. We'll be watching this kid. Thanks very much. Congratulations to the loving couple. Let's find out what's coming up at the top of the hour. Paula's standing by. Hi, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, wolf, thanks so much.
Coming up in about six minutes from now, out on bail tonight. Two Duke University Lacrosse players facing rape charges. Could a third arrest be near in the case?
Also, we're gonna take you behind the headlines in the calls for Donald Rumsfeld to resign. How did we actually get to the point that the president has to issue an angry defense of his man? And then we're going to take a look into whether sex offenders' registries are a path to vigilante justice after the murders of who sex criminals in Maine.
That and a whole lot more, and any late details on the birth of Suri are coming up in the next hour.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for that, Paula. We'll be watching.
Still ahead, commuting below sea level. Underwater airplanes. Find out why the future may be closer than you think. Miles O'Brien has a special report. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: You're back in THE SITUATION ROOM. Welcome back. Are the skies getting too crowded for you lately? How about traveling under water? CNN's Miles O'Brien has more in today's edition of "Welcome to the Future." Miles?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, in many respects, we know a lot more about outerspace than innerspace, what lies beneath the deep blue sea. And since oceans cover more than two thirds of our planet, that leaves a big hole in our understanding of the world around us, but there is a new fish in the sea.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Graham Hawkes, founder of Hawkes Ocean Technologies has created a vehicle that can fly through ocean.
GRAHAM HAWKES: The Wright Brothers did that a hundred years ago, but we're taking it into a big blue space.
O'BRIEN: Built like a jet, the winged submersibles dive more than 1500 feet with speeds up to 12 knots.
HAWKES: In terms of filming, studying animals, this is going to be a whole new program. You can put on a big suction cup on the front, try and grab animals out.
O'BRIEN: But you don't have to be a marine biologist to get in on the fun. Hawkes flight schools let amateurs become deep sea explorers with the ultimate goal to reach the deepest depths of the ocean, about 37,000 feet below.
HAWKES: Google this planet and you'll see it's all blue. Our future lies with understanding, exploring the ocean.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Graham Hawkes told us he thinks winged submersibles will eventually be as common as small airplanes and comparable in cost. So one day we may see people getting their pilot's license to fly underwater. Wolf.
BLITZER: Miles, thanks very much. Let's take a quick look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends over at the Associate Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow. Santa Rosa, California, two women participate in the memorial for those who died in the 1906 San Francisco earthquake 100 years ago today.
Elsewhere in California, a veterinarian gives a West Nile virus vaccination to a horse named Rocket. A religious minority in northern Iraq celebrates their new year in a procession. And in Ohio, three llamas take it easy in their barn at a family farm. Some of the Hot Shots coming in from our friends at the Associated Press.
Let's go up to New York. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" starting right now. Paula standing by. Paula.
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