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Larry Interviews John Walsh

Aired April 19, 2006 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, John Walsh, one of "America's Most Wanted" on the Duke rape investigation, that new arrest in the Natalee Holloway disappearance and a lot more.
Plus, Natalee's mom, Beth Holloway Twitty, will join us as well. Is it possible more arrests could be coming in her daughter's case?

We'll cover it all with John Walsh, who's turned an abduction and murder of his own son into a powerful force for good. He's next on LARRY KING LIVE.

It's always good to welcome John Walsh to this program. We're live in New York City. Later we'll be joined by Beth Holloway Twitty and get her thoughts on the latest events in Aruba.

What do you make of this Duke story?

JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": I think it's a nightmare. I think America is watching this nightmare unfold and I think everybody's rushing to judgment. I mean, you know, it's dividing this community. The D.A., everybody's accusing him of playing politics because he's up for reelection. Everybody is saying it's a cover-up. It's the race card thing.

But I think people have forgotten, do you remember the Tawanna Brawley (ph) case years ago?

KING: Sure do.

WALSH: Where this girl made this up, destroyed lives, the two lawyers that represented her, you know, lost their jobs. They were disbarred. It destroyed the D.A.'s life and stuff like this.

I wish that people would abide by less speculation and less of an emotional bizarre response because nobody is a winner in this case, Larry. Nobody is a winner in this case.

KING: But you've always been a defender of the victim.

WALSH: Absolutely.

KING: Why aren't you staunchly standing up for this young lady?

WALSH: Oh, I think she's got a lot of guts. I absolutely think that she's, you know, going against the tide. She's hanging tough and if she was violated and the courts prove that, I hope she gets justice and I hope these guys get what they deserve, not a slap on the wrist. I hope that they get what they deserve.

And, if for some reason that she has problems or it turns out to be a Tawanna Brawley case, then I hope the media covers that aspect of it because I hate to see these communities divided. This is the sad thing about this that people have already taken sides and they've decided guilt and innocence.

KING: With little knowledge.

WALSH: With little knowledge and the facts are just evolving and it's almost like the old days of the, you know, the vigilante. Let's get them out of jail and hang them or let's beat the victim up. Let's make her look like the world's worst and she's a mom. She's got two kids. So, I just wish people would back off on this for a minute.

KING: What do you make, John, of the intense public interest?

WALSH: I think it's media driven. I think there are so many media outlets today that fuel these fires and I think people care and I think a lot of sensationalist, you know, 30-second sound bytes have been there.

This woman needs to get justice and a case prepared by this D.A. and these boys need representation and hopefully this community won't self destruct before the trial.

KING: How about learning their names and watching them enter? There are some people who think that should be private.

WALSH: Well, no. I don't. You know years ago it used to absolutely drive me crazy when the law said that anybody under 18, if they were accused of a crime like rape or something like this, they were juvenile and their names couldn't be publicized.

But the victims' names could be publicized, even if the victim was 15 or 16. Imagine that kid going to school that next day, that little girl that had been raped maybe, and everybody knowing her name. I think in this day and age the names they get out. You know it, Larry. They leak out and there's nothing you can do about it.

KING: Some other things. Katrina and the fact that the concern that many sex offenders with the floods and everything were evacuated, dropped out of the system and they're around somewhere.

WALSH: That was a nightmare. I hit the ground after Katrina to go down there to look at the guys they let out of the jail so that these guys wouldn't drown. They let out guys that were alleged sex offenders. There were registered sex offenders that disappeared. There were guys that were wanted for assault and attempted murder and all that type of stuff. We're still wondering where these guys are. I mean a lot of those records were destroyed.

But I got to say one thing and I need to really tip my hat to CNN. Do you know the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children partnered up with CNN, 5,000 kids went missing because of Katrina. Parents put them on the rooftops into helicopters and sent them all over the country.

So, they asked the national center to put together the 8,000 searching parents and the 5,000 missing kids and CNN split that screen, you guys did it for a whole weekend.

KING: I remember.

WALSH: Put up the national center 800-THE-LOST. We had to get 40 retired cops to run the hotline and I'm happy to report, although 12 of those kids wound up deceased, a couple had drowned, that all those 5,000 kids were recovered because of the partnership of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, a non-profit, and CNN.

And you know what you helped me because we announced it on this show about these 5,000 kids taken all over the country and their parents didn't know where they were.

KING: Internet porn.

WALSH: Oh, my God.

KING: How much does it concern you? How widespread?

WALSH: I was in Lucerne, Switzerland about three months ago at an international conference. There were 32 countries there and Interpol said that international child pornography, which is a record of child abuse, I mean there's no debate. Adult pornography is supposed to be adults with adults participating in it, bought by adults.

Child pornography is a record of child abuse. It has now become an international $3 billion business. The Russian mob's got into it, the Romanian mob. A lot of it is produced in America but the largest buyers of child pornography in the world are Americans who buy it over the Internet and use their credit cards.

And we're trying to get the credit card industry to tell us who these creeps are that spend upwards of $30, $40 a month to get child pornography into their homes.

KING: Who are they?

WALSH: They're low lives. They're the guys...

KING: But they're bankers and doctors and business...

WALSH: They're everybody. Look at the homeland security public relations director is accused of trying to lure a kid, a young kid out.

KING: And apparently admitted it.

WALSH: Admitted it and he had child porn all over his computer. It's not the guy under the bridge with the trench coat. It's everybody and anybody in these communities, not everybody in the communities but they look just like you and I.

KING: And since the Internet is wide open and it's getting bigger and bigger what can you really do?

WALSH: Well, I'll tell you there are people that are stepping up to the plate. Cox Communications is a big cable operator. They have a website now called, so what they do is they're teaching, I've teamed up with them with these PSAs and I think every cable operator should do it to teach parents how to monitor what their kids are doing.

You know these big -- these big -- these chat rooms and these websites, you know, the take charge -- I'm sorry,, parents need to know. Seventy percent of kids out there have admitted that they have received unsolicited overtures over the Internet and that their parents don't know anything about the Internet and what to do. And only one in five of these kids said that they would ever tell them.

When your boys start using the Internet, I hope that they'll tell you or your wife that they got that solicitation over the Internet or they're in a chat room somewhere or they're on, you know, in some type of a little website that they started like and somebody is trying to lure them out.

Last year the national center teamed up with the FBI and several federal agencies in a program called Innocent Images that they run at the national center. They caught 1,027 Internet pedophiles posing as 12 and 13-year-old girls who are trying to lure kids out to hurt them, to lure them to the mall or to meet them somewhere and hurt them. It's very serious business. Cox is doing a good job. They have these PSAs and I urge everybody in the business to get involved.

KING: It's curiosity that draws the little ones in right?

WALSH: You can't blame them. You can't blame them. And, the problem for example they've got to start policing it because they got kids that are on there that are ten years old, Larry, and they think they're talking to another 10-year-old or 12-year-old. They're talking to a serious 55-year-old man that's going to meet them at the mall and hurt them.

KING: We're talking with a genuine American hero, John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted."

When we come back we'll be joined for a few moments with Beth Holloway Twitty, the mother of the still missing Natalee Holloway.

Don't go away.


KING: Joining us now is Beth Holloway Twitty, the mother of Natalee Holloway, the 18-year-old Alabama student who disappeared on May 30th, a year ago, while on a class graduation trip to Aruba. She's in Birmingham. Remaining with us in New York is John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted." His young son Adam was kidnapped and murdered in the summer of 1981.

What's the latest development Beth?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Well, Larry, it's just so hard. I think that, you know, when it seems like things can't become any more complex they just they do.

But, you know, Larry, I think it's a good move and it's positive. I mean you know we're seeing a resurgence from the prosecuting attorney and, you know, I think that maybe the new arrest of this suspect maybe he can shed some light onto what happened that last night (INAUDIBLE).

KING: What do you know about him?

TWITTY: We really don't have that much information about him. I mean we've heard a lot of speculation as to, you know, as to who this young man is and to how he's connected. But, I think it's just too early really to say exactly just, you know, what role he played, whether it's information or versus involvement.

KING: John?

WALSH: You know first of all I got to say to Beth, Larry, I have such great respect for this woman because I've walked in her shoes. The two weeks that Adam was missing we never left the police department.

You, Beth, and your family and supporters have never, ever given up on this case and I know when the media dies down you get disheartened. But the arrest of this kid I think is a great thing because now you're back in the media eye.

And my wife always says "Why do certain cases get more attention than others?" I say because -- and she always says to me, "John, it's because courageous people like Beth Holloway stay in the news" and I think it's a good thing.

And, Beth, the Aruban police that didn't cooperate so well with "America's Most Wanted" in the beginning and the Dutch police have now asked us because of the success of that Dutch copy of "America's Most Wanted" that generated some tips to run the description of the car that night, talk about this kid and say "If anybody on vacation ever bought GHB from him or if he hung around with those guys." And we're going to do it, Beth, and I think it's a good thing. It may generate some new tips.

TWITTY: Oh, absolutely, John, and that is, I mean that is progress and I mean that's good and, you know, that's what I was hoping would come out of the airing of the show, Dutch "Arrest Requested" and I was just absolutely delighted when I heard that they would be teaming up with "America's Most Wanted." I think that was a positive move and, you know, just good things can come out of that.

KING: Beth, there are reports that Natalee and Geoffrey were seen together, reports that Natalee called home and indicated she was smitten with a blond-haired, blue-eyed Dutch boy, any truth?

TWITTY: Well, Larry, you know, for one thing it's not true that Natalee called home to me to tell me about him. And, secondly, her friends are not giving me any indication that Natalee had a meeting with this young man or whether to have a relationship with him.

But now, of course, I cannot say, Larry, that Natalee did not pass by him on the beach. She could have brushed by him at Carlos 'N Charlie's, absolutely. I'm not saying that because obviously, you know, we don't know that.

But as far as an actual meeting with him, she had some type of relationship with him, calling home, no that just simply did not happen. But, you know, of course there's a possibility she ran across -- they crossed paths.

KING: Have you given up hope of her being found alive?

TWITTY: Well, I think the suspects gave me -- I think the suspects are the reason why I don't have any hope that Natalee's alive and the reason why, Larry, is you know we know that these individuals are the last ones to be seen with Natalee alive and why would they have lied to the officials so many times, sent the investigation into a tailspin, derailed it from the beginning, implicated the two security guards if they weren't covering something that was more serious?

Now what that is I don't know, Larry, but I just think that the suspects they're the ones who are just not giving me the hope that Natalee is alive just by their behavior and what they have done and how many times they have lied.

KING: Why are you shaking your head, John?

WALSH: Because if you're innocent and you're brought in, in the largest case in the history of Aruba, a disappearance of a young woman, you don't change your story ten times. Hardened professional criminals change their story ten times, not usually teenage boys.

And these boys, she has hit the nail on the head, they have lied. They have changed their story. They had days to clean those cars out. And, I believe this kid, the police are now saying that this kid ran with van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers and they probably waited for new groups of tourist girls to come in. They probably went to the same clubs.

If this kid did sell GHB to van der Sloot or the Kalpoe brothers, they better hold his butt in that jail and keep grilling him and say, "Look, you tell us or you're going to be in jail for a long time" or make a deal with him and at least get some facts from him.

KING: So, Beth, what are you looking for if you don't have hope that she's alive? What do you want?

TWITTY: Well, I think what the officials were telling us is that we're in a recovery mode for Natalee and that's what we want to do, Larry. I mean we're not -- I mean it's not our position or, you know, how the Aruban criminal justice system will, you know, prevail over the suspects. All we've ever wanted to do, Larry, is just, you know, return Natalee to the United States and, you know, that's what we're just committed to do.

KING: You're a stand-up lady. Thank you, Beth, best of luck. We'll keep in close touch, quite a lady.

TWITTY: Thank you, Larry. Thank you, John.

WALSH: Quite a lady and you know what, Beth, don't give up and, you know what, everybody seems to -- not to realize the not knowing is the worst for the parents, the not knowing is what kills you.

KING: We'll be right back. We thank Beth Holloway Twitty. We'll be right back with John Walsh, look at some current cases that "America's Most Wanted" is interested in. Don't go away.



WALSH (voice-over): Hiers' vehicle was found abandoned in the border town of Laredo, Texas but Hiers was nowhere to be found. Hiers often uses prostitutes, speaks in Spanish and Portuguese and knows martial arts. And, listen closely to his voice.

DAN WILLIAM HIERS, JR.: I'd like to thank everybody that's made this wedding possible.

This is Dan Hiers, Jr. signing off.

WALSH: If you've seen my worst fugitive of the year, Dan Hiers, please call our hotline at 1-800-CRIME-TV.


KING: Why is he your worst?

WALSH: Well, I'll tell you he's at the top of my scumbag list. He was a cop, number one, and he started molesting kids at a karate school, little girls. And he got arrested and the cops let them -- bonded him out and then another girl came forward and they arrested him again. And they kept saying "Well, he's a cop. He's OK, you know. He'll show up for trial," real con man.

And then he's had this young wife and during the trial she was supportive of him and when they finally said "You're coming in. You got to come in," he shot her in the head allegedly, left her, stole her car. They found the car in Laredo. He's going to be hard to catch but I mean how can you shoot this...

KING: Why is he going to be hard to catch?

WALSH: Because he's a cop, ex-cop. He knows all the game. He knows how to go to places. He know Mexico doesn't have an extradition treaty. And he's a coward. He ruined the lives of several little girls. He's a con man. And to pay off this woman that helped him during this whole stuff to shoot her in the head an leave her there and take her car is just a real scumbag.

KING: Any information it's 1-800-CRIME-TV?

WALSH: Yes and I say it for years, Larry. You can call anonymously. We don't trace the calls. We don't tap the calls and cops don't answer the phone. And, you know, we've caught two guys in the last month in Mexico, a cop killer and a guy that killed a 4-year-old boy several years ago, burned his body. And El Presidente Fox and the Mexican Supreme Court finally came to their senses and sent these two guys back.

KING: Tell me about the accused child rapist Jeremy Duffer (ph).

WALSH: Oh, God, this is the typical guy that I always warn people around. He ran a video game store and he's got access to these kids and the single mom. It's always these poor divorced moms with these two sons.

And she starts finally to suspect that this guy is spending to much time with a 10-year-old son and taking him everywhere. And the son went to visit the divorced father and this guy, Jeremy Duffer, called him 40 times in one day.

So, finally the kid comes forward. The mother gets the sons to come forward. They build a case. They bring him in. They put him in jail. And somewhere, and I suspect it's another pedophile somewhere because they use these blog sites and they do all this crap for each other, somebody posted the $90,000 bond.

He had an electronic bracelet on. This arrogant creep went to this house and cut off the electronic bracelet and he could be anywhere. But he's suspected of molesting many, many little boys and he's on the loose. He just cut that bracelet off.

KING: Doesn't it frustrate you hosting that show?

WALSH: It drives me crazy. What creep would post a $90,000 bond? I mean that's how insidious these pedophiles are and it just drives me crazy. I mean we wasted $5 million to put an electronic bracelet on Martha Stewart for doing what? Come on. Put a GPS chip on these guys and track them where they are.

KING: You have no forgiveness for the pedophile, right?

WALSH: They have the highest rate of recidivism, Larry. They get out. They destroy lives. They eventually progress, some of them, into murder. They're the hardest to catch. They're the most cunning and they destroy people's lives.

The psychiatric community says they're not curable. They have a huge rate of recidivism. We never keep them in jail long enough. We never punish them. So, you know what, if we can't put them on that penal colony on Mars, that's where I'd like to send them, and if we can't cure them because we should study and we should study their genetics. We should study their brains.

In the meantime, this Child Safety Act that I've talked to you about many, many times that passed, flew through the House of Representatives last year, it was written by Mark Foley, a Congressman from Florida, James Sensenbrenner got it through with the bipartisan Democrats and Republicans. It got stuck in the Senate last year. It didn't make it.

The House reintroduced it. It passed. It would create a national sex offender registry. The marshals would go after them, a guy like this, if he's out there, a guy like that killed Jessica Lunsford, that violated 22 arrests, et cetera, run them down, put them in jail for five years as a penalty. It's stuck in the House of Representatives. I'm begging Joe Biden.

KING: You mean in the Senate.

WALSH: I'm sorry in the Senate. I went and spent 45 minutes with Bill Frist. I know Arlen Specter and Orrin Hatch. I've got Hillary Clinton on the bill. I've got Charles Schumer. Joe Biden has been a champion.

KING: So what's the problem?

WALSH: You tell me will you please? And I'm telling everybody that's watching this show tonight. We need a national sex offender registry. We need to know if these guys move next door to your two little beautiful little boys and the guy just got out of jail, et cetera, and it needs to get passed.

And I'm telling people visit We have the sample letters. We'll tell you who your two U.S. Senators are. And, Bill Frist told me he would get it out of the U.S. Senate and I don't know why the hell it isn't out.

KING: We don't know why the pedophile does what he does right?

WALSH: You know...

KING: We don't know why.

WALSH: I don't think they know why. It's a huge drive. It's a sexual urge. They're big time repeat offenders. They ruin kids' lives. I mean you know you're a heterosexual. I don't believe heterosexuality -- and so am I. We're married.

But that's not curable. Homosexuality, that's their business as long as it's a consenting sex between adults that's not curable. I don't pedophilia is curable. I don't know why they have this drive but I know one damn thing.

I'm sick of profiling them on the show. I'm sick of looking at the guy, John Couey, that killed Jessica Lunsford, 22 arrests in violation; Joseph Duncan who killed that whole family in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. He's been molesting kids in and out. He had five warrants out for him, Larry. KING: And it boggles. What is the attraction of a young kid?

WALSH: You and I can't figure it out.

KING: Cannot.

WALSH: But they ruin these kids lives and that Duncan guy killed that whole family and that 9-year-old son to keep that little 8-year-old girl. I don't care about what their drive is, Larry. I hope that we cure them someday or we put them away. But you know what I know one damn thing. Keep them away from children.

KING: We're going to take a break and come back with more and more cases to look at. If you have any information on any of the cases you've seen or will see, it's 1-800-CRIME-TV, 1-800-CRIME-TV.

Tomorrow night's special guest is Senator Ted Kennedy.

And on Friday night exclusive, Faith Hill and Tim McGraw together, Faith Hill and Tim McGraw together on Friday night -- back with John Walsh after this.


WALSH (voice-over): Jeremy Duffer worked at a game store in Tennessee where cops say he lured and sexually molested a 12-year-old boy. Duffer claims to be afraid of crowded places. He could be driving a blue 1990 Pontiac 6000.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deep in the Louisiana back waters, police are following every lead they can get as they search for a convicted killer on the run, his name Richard McNair (ph). McNair shot a truck driver to death during a botched robbery in 1987 in North Dakota. He escaped from jail twice and caused so much trouble, that state prison officials shipped him to a federal lock-up.

He wound up here, the Pollack Federal Penitentiary in rural Louisiana. From the moment he arrived, U.S. officials say McNair began plotting another escape. This time, police say McNair hid himself in a pallet of mailbags and on April 5th, a forklift carried the pallet and McNair away.


KING: What kind of leads have you gotten on him.

w: This guy, they say he literally mailed himself out of prison. He fixed mailbags, put himself in, shrink-wrapped himself on this forklift, went to a federal facility for mailbags and cut himself out and got out, mailed himself out of prison. He's dangerous as hell, he was former Air Force Sergeant, martial arts expert, survivalist. Escaped from two prisons. As you saw in that piece, he's so smart they put him in this federal prison. He rides the rails, he jumps on railroad cars and does little robberies here and they're, he's a survivalist, will kill an animal and cook it. He's a real dangerous guy.

KING: He was stopped and questioned by a police officer who was aware of the escape but didn't have a clear photo and who eventually allowed McNair to go on his way. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an escape.






UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know the bad thing about it?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're matching up to him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That sucks, doesn't it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. When I crossed the tracks down there, I saw you running, I said well, how lucky can I be?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no. I'm not no prison escape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's our quick line here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a good day now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be careful, buddy.


KING: How did he get out of that?

WALSH: Look how cunning he is. You have to look at how cold- blooded this guy is, running along the railroad tracks, this cop stops him, he talks his way out of it. The cops just don't have the resources? I still say, what did that lunar module cost you and I the taxpayers of America, 40 billion bucks and sends back pictures of ice crystals, but that cop couldn't get a valid picture of the escapee to hold him. The guy is cold-blooded and cunning, and very dangerous, now that people have got a look at him, I hope they turn him in before he kills somebody else.

KING: The sex crime people you are after and want listed, are you defining it? Is there a danger, a guy meets a girl in a bar and they go in a car, and they have sex in a car and a cop stops them, are they sex offenders? Is it clearly written they wouldn't be, even if arrested on a misdemeanor?

WALSH: I don't believe, for example, this child safety act that would create this national registry of sex offenders, I'm not talking about the 17 year old boy who had sex in high school with a 16 year old girl, under-age. I'm talking about level three predators, the guys that hurt kids, that kidnap kids, the serial rapists that rape 20 and 30 people. There's a line there and those are the really dangerous ones that need to be in this national sex offender registry.

KING: Are you going to get it?

WALSH: I'm telling you, I do not know. Bill Frist promised me, said John, I'm not a lawyer. God bless all the lawyers. He said I'm a doctor, a humanist and I care about this and I will get this out of the United States Senate. I said, Bill, Senator Frist, there are enough co-sponsors, we could use some more Democrats but I believe if it hits the floor, I don't believe anybody would vote against it, something that should have been done years ago.

KING: Senator Kennedy will be here tomorrow. Where is he at on it?

WALSH: He's been a great supporter of mine for years. I see the most vitriolic things going on. This partisanship in Capitol Hill. I've been walking the halls of 25 years, this will be the 25th anniversary of Adam's death, I've never seen such partisan politics.

I do have Democrats on this bill. They should put it all aside. Who cares who gets credit? Who cares if Senate is run by the Republican majority now? If the House could pass it with 435 members who don't agree on the number of stars on the flag, if they could pass it twice in the house, why can't the Senate get this passed?

KING: Is Kennedy opposed?

WALSH: I think he's had problems with it. He's always been a supporter of the missing children's bill, and I hope it isn't politics. I hope Senator Kennedy says, maybe I can't get my agenda or what I want to do, but a national sex offender registry is what needs to be done? Please ask him tomorrow.

KING: I will.

WALSH: Let's get it done.

KING: Do you ever think that you're fighting windmills? WALSH: No, I don't. Sometimes I get very, very frustrated. When this bill passed last year and it didn't make it through the Senate. I went over and saw Arlen Specter and Joe Biden has been a friend of mine for 20 years and Orrin Hatch and they say they are going to get it done and they have all these other things so important, The Patriot Act and stuff.

We're talking about guys like Joseph Duncan who roamed through the country, killed a whole family. We saw it. You and I watched the video on this show of him with that eight year old girl in a stolen car torturing her for eight weeks before a waitress spotted and turned him in. That guy had warrants out for him everywhere. That family didn't need to be killed.

This was a guy who had been in and out of prison since he was 17 years old. I don't think I'm fighting windmills. I want an answer from the United States Senate, why isn't this important? If we can't keep them where they should be, don't we have the right to know they live next door to us? Pretty simple piece of legislation.

KING: We'll be right back with John Walsh and take a look at an amazing case in Phoenix.


ANNOUNCER: This week, the U.S. Marshals named Richard McNair to their 15 most wanted list and they are counting on you to call in with the information that will lead you to him. Here are some important clues. McNair has an infected molar and that's led to a sinus infection. He's got really bad allergies and since he's been wandering around in the woods, he's probably pretty sick right now. If you see Richard McNair, please be careful. He's killer and he's dangerous.




ANNOUNCER: Phoenix has been in someone's crosshairs for months. Investigators believe they can connect as many as 19 shootings of people and animals starting in the summer of 2005. Some witnesses believe the shooter, or shooters, are driving a dark colored mid- 1990's sedan, possibly a Honda. If you know anything about these mysterious shootings in Phoenix, please call our hotline right now at 1-800-CRIMETV.


KING: Before we talk about this, how many people have you caught over the years?

WALSH: Eight hundred and 75 in 31 countries.

KING: What's this story? WALSH: I don't know why this isn't on the national news. I think it isn't because it's in Phoenix. Remember the D.C. sniper, how we were all completely paralyzed because he was killing people in Virginia, in the nation's capitol? There's been 19 shootings, two people -- the shooter shot two homeless guys, murdered them. Shot an innocent citizen right through the neck who survived. He shot five horses, he shot dogs. And they think he's got this bizarre survival gun. And this is a good tip for your viewers. It's a gun that shoots shotgun shells and it shoots .22 shells. So it's a very unique gun. But I don't know why this isn't national news. I don't know why people don't have field reporters out in Phoenix, because this guy shot 19 things.

KING: Who decides -- I work in the business. Who decides why a story is a story and why this is and that isn't?

WALSH: You and I have always talked about it, it's pack reporting. All the news directors, including the people that work for you and work for FOX News and work for NBC, ABC, they'll hear somebody else is on the story, they'll hear that a truck is rushing there, a satellite truck. They have a field reporter and all of sudden it's pack frenzy.

People always ask me this, you've asked me. Why is it that the white kids, missing kids get covered more than the black kids, et cetera. I say it's the parents who make a big deal out of it and its location. The D.C. sniper was right in the nation's capitol and people were afraid to go up on Capitol Hill and stuff.

Phoenix, I don't know. I call up news directors all the time and say to them, "This is a horrible case. This is a missing child case." And they go, "Yes, it's kind of a regional case. Right now, we're working on this one."

KING: For a long time that Louisiana case no one covered.

WALSH: Oh god, the Baton Rouge serial killer, nobody cared until they killed eight people.

KING: Are there certain cities that are crime cities, like if it happens in Miami, is it covered?

WALSH: Yes, you know Miami is -- you and I are both from south Florida, there's a lot of news coverage down there. West Palm Beach has become a pretty violent place and the sheriff, Ric Bradshaw, is trying to do a good job. He's a friend of mine. Detroit has become a pretty, pretty scary place.

But you know, I was just in Boston about two months ago where they had this stupid stop snitching program up there. They had 275 unsolved homicides in that beautiful town last year. And a defense attorney, don't we love to hate these defense attorneys, gave a list of the witness to a couple of gang-bangers he was representing.

And they went and killed the main witness and they started putting these gangbanger T-shirts, rap gear said stop snitching, don't call "America's Most Wanted," don't call crime stoppers.

Well where we get most of our calls are from inner-city places, where people say, I want to remain anonymous, I'm going to turn in a rapist, I'm going to turn in a murderer, I'm going to save a life. And these thugs -- I mean the police commissioner in Boston is a wonderful woman, the mayor is all for it. They're putting mounted cops into these tough areas. And it's disgusting. I mean there's a town that is being held hostage by a bunch of gang-bangers.

KING: So what's happening in phoenix? Any leads?

WALSH: No. They got -- as we said, we had the car. One guy that got shot in the neck, he didn't see anything. They're talking about they have put together these shotgun shells at the scene of the crime so they have some forensics and they think that old car might be the shooter.

But it's always somebody knows these creeps. Just like the Unibomber's brother turned him in. God bless the Unibomber's brother. When I did the hobo serial killer on this show, this guy killed four people, then he went back to Mexico. And he went around my rail and everything. And it was a relative of his who did the right thing. I say to people, and this stop snitching thing, this drives me crazy. Anybody that's selling that gangbanger crap, everybody should go in that store and say, "What are you talking about?"

KING: What do you make of the shooting of animals?

WALSH: Oh, this is a sick guy. This is a guy that's sitting somewhere on a bridge and he's shooting horses, he's shooting dogs on people's porches and he's shooting people when he feels like it.

I mean, this should be a national story and people should be all over this story and say, "You know what, I do have the weird cousin or I do have the weird friend and I did sell a gun like that, a survival gun to somebody a year ago." That's what breaks these cases.

KING: Wouldn't be surprised to see Anderson Cooper in Phoenix tomorrow.

WALSH: Well get him there, Larry.

KING: A.C. is standing by right here in -- are you in New York?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm in New York. I'll maybe get a ticket, look into it.

KING: "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at the top of the hour, what are we covering?

COOPER: A lot to cover out of Washington, Larry. Shake-up at the White House, Bush's boy Scott McClellan is out, Bush's advisor, Karl Rove, the man some called the brain. Well today, he had some power curtailed. Is it real change for an administration on the ropes or just new faces for old policies? We'll have smart analysis from presidential adviser David Gergen and "Time" political writer Joe Klein. And we'll take you to Duke for the latest on the lacrosse rape investigation, where a timeline is starting to emerge, that defense attorneys say proves their clients are innocent. All that and more, all the angles tonight on "360," Larry.

KING: Thanks, Anderson. That's a great show. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at the top on the hour. Right back with John Walsh after this.


WALSH (voice-over): November 30th, 1990, Tucson, Arizona. Comstock was drinking at some local bars. She began driving home completely drunk. Across town, Dawn and Steve Gunning were putting their kids to bed. Comstock missed a turn and slammed her car through the Gunning's front wall at 50 miles-an-hour. The car pinned 5-year- old Collin under the couch, killing him. Comstock fled, but police found her two hours later and charged her with manslaughter. But as soon as she was released on $50,000 bond, Comstock skipped. She was convicted in absentia.




WALSH: Byron Perkins, my candidate for the worst dad ever. This is Byron's son, Destin. As we showed you, this 16-year-old desperately needs a kidney transplant. He turned to his estranged father for help.

The problem was, his dad was in jail on drug and robbery charges. The judge agreed to let Perkins out for medical tests. That's when cops say Byron Perkins turned his back on his son and hit the road, with his girlfriend, Lea Ann Howard. The U.S. marshals put Howard and Perkins on their 15 most wanted list. And I added them to my personal dirty dozen.


KING: This is a creep. Is the kid still living?

WALSH: Yes, he is. How big a scumbag do you have to be -- he is an prison and he's never been in the kid's life. The mother tries to donate a kidney and they can't get a match. They find out that the father is the possible match. So don't you think you'd want to redeem yourself and maybe give the kid a kidney? He goes to the hospital and this low-life Lea Ann Howard, who's a fugitive, she's on bail, springs this creep. And instead of doing the right thing -- he was spotted in Mexico, we almost caught him and we just got a tip that he was in Belize.

So people are still going on vacation, down to Belize. Somebody's totally identified him, but they didn't know how to get a hold of Belize police. They said that she smelled, she hasn't taken a bath in three or four weeks. They noticed her smell and stuff like that. But he's got -- you and I talk about being good fathers. This is the lowest scum-bag father of all time. And got to get him, you know what I think?

And they can't make him give the kidney. I wish part of his punishment would be, "OK, bro, you're going back in for all the things you did and we're going to take, as part of your punishment, we're going to give a kidney." But you know what happened? Tons of people called the "America's Most Wanted" hotline and said, "We want to know if we could be a match for this boy's kidney," because most of the people out there are good people.

KING: In another area, I know you have mixed feelings on the death penalty. What about Moussaoui?

WALSH: You know something, this guy is completely off the Richter...

KING: Crazed.

WALSH: ... He's a schizophrenic. It kind of shows you what al Qaeda recruits. I mean, they'll recruit any nut case they can. But no matter whether you think he hates America and he wants to kill American or he's sick, he's schizophrenic.

I say one thing about these guys. I mean, if he was out there, Larry, he would hurt us, he's dangerous. So he needs to go somewhere for the rest of his life. He's violently, dangerously, mentally ill. So he's not my top candidate for the death penalty, like a child killer is or someone like that.

I think he's a very mentally ill, dangerous guy. But if you put him in a mental facility where he could walk off, where hundreds of people have walked off from mental facilities and gone on to hurt children, whatever happens to this guy, he needs to be in life without. Maybe he qualifies for the death penalty and I was at Ground Zero and saw a bunch of horrible stuff.

But forget the debate whether he needs the death or life without, he's too dangerous to ever let out.

KING: Because he could be martyred.

WALSH: If we give him the death penalty -- I hate to say it, this is the kind of guy that probably should rot in jail. I really -- this is the kind of guy that should do that.

KING: Today is the 11 anniversary of the Oklahoma City federal building. Did you go there?

WALSH: Yes, I did. And the coroner, what a wonderful guy. I went there, I landed on the ground. Because we were going to do John Doe No. 2. Remember the guy, Terry Nichols that gave McVeigh the stuff and we didn't know who he was at the time?

And the coroner brought me in the triage tent said, "Would you talk to the people that have been up all night?" And he says, "We had to cut the legs off of a woman who's torso was flattened in there," and he said, "And over here, people are putting together little feet and little hands of those 20 some kids that were in the daycare center to give their parents enough to bury."

And I said to myself, these people are doing God's work here at the Oklahoma bombing. And I think the only way we can honor those people is to keep talking about it. I mean, here was a domestic terrorist.

KING: That execution was warranted?

WALSH: That guy, believe me, he's right where he belongs, in hell somewhere roasting on a spit. I'm telling you, he killed -- never mind the adults, what about the kids in that daycare center?

KING: We'll be back with some more moments with John Walsh. Don't go away.


WALSH (voice-over): Tonight, police believe Perkins and Howard are in Mexico, possibly in Puerto Vallarta or Cancun. Even on the beach, Howard will be wearing hiking boots. Cops say she's afraid of the ocean. Also Howard may have cut her hair like this. Perkins will be drinking beer and smoking Marlboros in a neatly-ironed T-shirt. Police say he may have grown facial hair, like these older mugshots. The easiest way to spot Byron Perkins is by his many tattoos, including this one of a cross on his left forearm. If you've seen Byron Perkins and Lea Ann Howard, call our hotline right now at 1-800- CRIMETV.




WALSH: Tafare had been gunned down in cold blood, for no apparent reason. They believe the suspects were in a gray mid-size, four-door, foreign make car. They believe a member of the Latin Kings street gang is involved or knows something about the crime. And they believe someone else, who was at the club that night knows something, too. If it's you, we need to hear from you tonight. If you know anything about the murder of Tafare Berryman, please call our hotline at 1-800-CRIMETV. You can remain anonymous.


KING: Before we talk quickly about this case, I wanted to clear up a couple of things. The number of people caught by "America's Most Wanted," 887, more than John had mentioned. And you wanted to clear up something about a Web site.

WALSH: The Cox Communication Web site to get all that info about your kids and Internet safety, it's, great information for parents who really don't know.


WALSH: Free information.

KING: What about the Berryman case?

WALSH: Tafare Berryman. I mean, this kid was two weeks away from graduating from college, great student, deciding whether to work on Wall Street. And you know, these Latin Kings are just a symptom of these dirt-bag Hispanic gangs.

And somebody, Larry, I know for sure, knows who killed Tafare Berryman. And somebody knows who the two cowards were that chased him out of the nightclub, they threw a bottle at his buddy, slashed his head. Tafare tried to drive away, they pulled up and shot him in cold blood.

Somebody in that gang or related to that gang or a mother or somebody knows. Call anonymously. We don't care about who you are. We don't trace you, bring you into the cases. We don't tap your phones, do the right thing for this family. I would love to solve this case for this family.

KING: Do you think we're ever going to see people stop killing people?

WALSH: It's mind-boggling to me. I've been all over the world and I mean, in poverty-level third world countries, and in certain parts of Africa, killing is a way of life.

But there in America, look at the blessings and look at the resources we have and look at the wonderful people and the education. Why is homicide such a big thing? Why do we put up with it?

KING: Why do we like the guns?

WALSH: The gun -- you know, I have guns and I'm an excellent shot and I shoot skeet and I hunt and all this type of things. But I believe in gun control. I really believe that only responsible people that can test -- stand a two-week background check and know how to use their guns and keep them away from kids and use trigger locks and stuff, and we're the country of the gun. We're in love with guns.

KING: Well tomorrow you're going with the Suffolk County police?

WALSH: Oh gosh. They've got a great vice squad there, you know, looking for sexual predators.

KING: Do you travel with them?

WALSH: I'm going to be with them tomorrow. Last night I was riding with the -- all night in Texas with the Operator Predator and the Dallas P.D. fast team. I mean, there's a joint task force. These guys risk their lives every night, knocking down doors to catch people to keep you and I safe. KING: You're a great man, John.

WALSH: Always an honor to be here, Larry. Always a pleasure.

KING: John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted," advocate for child safety victims rights. His young son Adam brutally kidnapped and murdered in December of 1981. Tomorrow night, Senator Ted Kennedy is our special guest and Friday night, Faith Hill and Tim McGraw, that's an exclusive duo appearance.

Right now a singular appearance. He stands by right here in New York, one of our favorite people, Anderson Cooper, the host of "A.C. 360." Anderson, what's ahead?


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