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The Situation Room
U.S.-China Tensions; Protesting China; The Great Firewall
Aired April 20, 2006 - 18:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, new details on a protest that caught President Bush and China's leader off guard.
It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington, where sources of tension between the U.S. and China have been on display all day long. The heckler heard around the world, what happened after she was carted off? We'll get the inside story in our exclusive interview with the president's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley.
And Donald Trump on Donald Rumsfeld. The mogul-turned-TV star has no problem saying, "You're fired." Would he use that famous line on the Pentagon chief? "The Donald" weighs in on the Bush administration's problems, the 2008 presidential race, and his own political future.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Tonight, diplomatic tensions and embarrassments over a controversial meeting between the president of the United States and the president of China. China's communist leader got a warm welcome from President Bush and an angry reception from protesters, including a heckler who crashed the arrival ceremony on the south lawn.
Here's our White House correspondent, Ed Henry -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, after that dramatic protest in the south lawn. The two leaders went to the Oval Office. We're told President Bush told President Hu that he regrets what happened, President Hu was gracious, they moved on to other issues. They did a lot of talking in the Oval Office, but no real breakthroughs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice over): All smiles as President Bush welcomed President Hu Jintao to the White House with full military honors and a 21-gun salute. President Hu desperately wanted the pomp and circumstances to show his people back home the respect he's accorded by the United States. But then, an unscripted moment the Chinese president certainly did not want the world to see, as a female protester started heckling him.
Perched high above the two leaders on a camera stand, she waved a flag and the colors of Falun Gong, a banned religious movement in China.
WANG WENYI, "EPOCH TIMES": President Bush, stop him. Stop him! President Bush, stop him!
HENRY: The protest came shortly after President Bush had pushed for the Chinese people to be allowed to speak freely.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: China has become successful because the Chinese people are experiencing the freedom to buy and to sell and to produce, and China can grow even more successful by allowing the Chinese people the freedom to assemble, to speak freely, and to worship.
HENRY: Hundreds more protested outside the White House gates, but human rights is far from the only tension.
BUSH: All we want to do is be treated fairly in the international marketplace.
HENRY: In an Oval Office meeting, President Bush pressed his counterpart on the U.S. trade deficit with China and the inflexibility of the Chinese currency, with no concrete breakthroughs. But the two sides did pledge to work together to diffuse nuclear standoffs with Iran and North Korea.
HU JINTAO, CHINESE PRESIDENT (through translator): A good China- U.S. relationship is of strategic significance to the maintenance and promotion of peace, stability and development in the Asia-Pacific region and to the world at large.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: That female protester was removed from the south lawn by the Secret Service and charged with disorderly conduct. Meanwhile, a larger protest outside the White House gates has continued for hours -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed Henry, thanks very much.
Even before the heckling incident on the south lawn of the White House, there was another embarrassing diplomatic gaff during the formal welcoming ceremony for President Hu. Listen to closely to the way the White House announcer refers to China before the national anthems are played.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Ladies and Gentlemen, the national anthem of the Republic of China, followed by the national anthem of the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: President Hu's communist nation is known as the People's Republic of China. The Republic of China is the formal name of Taiwan, which China considers a rebellious province.
Another gaff at the White House.
And we have more on today's protests against President Hu. CNN's Chris Lawrence is here in Washington. He was out among the demonstrators outside the White House earlier today.
Chris, give us the latest.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you know that heckler that Ed just mentioned was by far the loudest voice of protest out there, but she was by no means the only one.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice over): Wenyi Wang entered the grounds on a one- day press pass and passed through all the normal security. Federal agents removed her after she interrupted Hu's speech to yell at the two presidents.
Outside the White House, pro-China demonstrators showed their support for Hu's visit. Ten yards away, hundreds of protesters yelled back.
TNVIN SHAYDRUP, PROTESTER: We are this side, but on the other side there is the pro one. And they don't see this reality. They are totally blinded by it.
LAWRENCE: China's leader had his detractors, but many reserved their toughest criticism for President Bush.
SEAN SU, PROTESTER: The question is, if we don't do business with North Korea, Cuba, you know, why are we doing business with China?
LAWRENCE: One man criticized the president for getting tough with China's leader on some issues, then going easy on others.
MARCUS GREEN, PROTESTER: Is he with him or is he against him? I don't know. It's his conscience.
LAWRENCE: Some demanded a free Tibet or independent Taiwan. Others protested abuses against a banned religious group called Falun Gong.
Stephanie Li just wants her sister released from a hard labor camp.
(on camera): Do you miss your sister?
STEPHANIE LI, PROTESTER: Yes. How can I say? Yes. I miss her.
LAWRENCE (voice over): Many told us they would never be able to come out publicly like this on the streets of China.
(on camera): How much do you think people in China will hear about these protests, if anything?
SU: Very little.
LAWRENCE (voice over): In fact, it may be closer to nothing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: Yes, that protester that you just watched and heard heckling the presidents, viewers in China never saw it. As soon as she started yelling, Chinese authorities blocked out television signals for a few minutes, and they only came back on after she was gone.
And Wolf, the Chinese newspapers and Web sites made no mention of her at all.
BLITZER: Not surprised.
Thanks very much for that.
Chris Lawrence here in Washington.
China's censorship efforts continue to be a huge problem for the United States, especially when it comes to speech online.
Let's bring in our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton. She's standing by with more -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, China strictly polices its Internet users. And U.S. companies that do business there have recently come under criticism that they are participating in censorship.
Google, for a new Chinese version of its search engine which filters out content related to certain search terms.
Yahoo!, for providing user information to Chinese authorities.
Four of the big Internet companies recently appeared before Congress. And lawmakers criticized their business practices in China.
Counsel for Yahoo! appeared at the hearing and said, basically, their company faces either complying with local laws or leaving. A Yahoo! spokeswoman told me today, on a day when leaders of both countries met, what they feel the need for is government-to-government discussion of the larger issues involved -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thank you very much.
Let's check in with Jack Cafferty. He's in New York with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, how hypocritical can you get? There's President Bush lecturing the president of China about human rights.
Now, granted, China has a very long way to go in granting freedom to its citizens. But who's President Bush to lecture anybody about human rights?
Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, the Patriot Act, prisoners being sent to other countries for interrogation, allegations of torture, enemy combatants being held indefinitely without being charged or being given access to a lawyer, wiretapping Americans' telephones without a warrant, in clear violation of the law that says you have to have one. What's that old line from the bible, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?
Here's the question: Does the United States have the right to lecture China about human rights?
E-mail us at caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Get ready, Jack. You're about to get hundreds, if not thousands of e-mail very quickly.
Coming up, could Donald Trump be a king maker in the 2008 presidential race, or would he like to run for the job himself? I'll go one on one with Donald Trump, who has plenty to say about politics.
Plus, my exclusive interview with President Bush's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley. He'll share the president's behind- the-scenes reaction to that heckler over at the White House.
And there's been a long history of heckling. Our Jeanne Moos looks back at the boos, the cat calls, and the other unkind words lobbed at political leaders.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The Bush administration went to some length today to show China's president that he and his country are very important to the United States. If the pomp and ceremony didn't convince you of that, maybe our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, can -- Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Wolf, it sounds like a story only a hopeless policy wonk could love: Chinese leader visits U.S. But before you turn to the next Hollywood celebrity birth, consider how we deal with China may well shape everything from how well we will live, to the prospect of war and peace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD (voice-over): The specter of China as a world power, military and economic, has haunted American leaders going all the way back to Theodore Roosevelt a century ago. It was a key concern of Richard Nixon's even before he was elected president and it is why this prominent anti-Communist decided to deal with and to visit China in 1972.
Now that potential power is real power. China's gross domestic product has doubled in a decade. A wealthier China means more cars, homes, office buildings, consumer goods for its 1.3 billion people. And that means China is going to consume more and more raw materials, like rubber, copper, cotton, and oil.
That, in turn, means that, over the long term, prices in the U.S., especially at the gas pump, are likely headed in one direction: up, up, and away. China's goods flow into the United States in a torrent. If you shop at a store like Wal-Mart, you're really shopping in China. And its trade surplus with the U.S. now runs $200 billion a year.
Moreover, as the U.S. budget sinks further into the red, China has become one of the U.S.' biggest bankers. It holds more than $800 billion in government and corporate securities. Should China decide to move away from the dollar, the impact on the U.S. could be severe.
Then there's the small matter of military tensions. China has made no secret of its claims on Taiwan. The U.S., in turn, is committed by treaty to Taiwan's defense, but not to any claims of formal independence. Washington also needs China's supposed influence over North Korea to keep that issue from exploding into direct military confrontation.
And if the international community eventually decides to confront Iran directly on its nuclear ambitions, will China, with its growing need for oil, aid or hinder that effort?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD: So, what is at stake long term? Not much, only, perhaps, our economic future and the balance between war and peace. Hardly worth thinking about -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jeff, thanks very much.
Both President Bush and Chinese President Hu say they hope to strengthen ties between the two countries. But how might that happen when there are some serious disagreements over issues such as human rights in China?
Just a short while ago, I asked President Bush's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, if the two leaders were able to find any common ground on that issue. It's a CNN exclusive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Did you get one tangible, something specific that you're at liberty to share with our viewers on an issue involved human rights concession, a decision that was offered by the Chinese leader?
STEPHEN HADLEY, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: There are three -- there are six things that we asked them to do. They have indicated that there are three of them that they are prepared to do after this visit.
We are not going to be able to talk about them at this point. When -- obviously, when the Chinese reform, we will make it very clear that these are contributions to the developing dialogue on human rights. This is an area where we've got more work to do with the Chinese, and the Chinese, of course, have more work to do.
BLITZER: Tell us what the president told the Chinese leader about that heckler on the south lawn. I was watching that ceremony live. I'm sure it was a huge embarrassment. How did the president and the Chinese leader, President Hu, deal with this issue?
HADLEY: When they went into the restricted session, of course, the president expressed his regret that the incident had occurred. And President Hu Jintao was very gracious about it.
It's an unfortunate incident. It's really not about freedom of speech. You know, freedom of speech is what you're seeing in Lafayette Park right now. But it was a journalist accredited to the -- to the delegation, the journalistic delegation, who decided rather than reporting news, they would make the news.
And it's an unfortunate incident. The president expressed his regret. Hu Jintao was very gracious about it.
You know, it was a blip. And they went on to a very good conversation, both in the restricted section, in an expanded session, then over lunch. So the two men had a good opportunity to talk, and I think it was a very constructive discussion.
BLITZER: But you know there are going to be a lot of Chinese people, the communists, who are going to think this was a deliberate effort, a conspiracy, if you will, to embarrass the Chinese leader here, that they will say, how it is possible that this woman could get inside the White House, on the south lawn, unless the U.S. government wanted her to get inside of the south lawn?
HADLEY: Well, we permitted her to get in to the south lawn. She came in through our normal procedures, representing a legitimate newspaper.
She's someone who had been on the compound before at news events, had not raised a problem before. So, under the guidelines and practices that we have, she was allowed to go in.
Obviously, this is not something that we would encourage. It was something that the president expressed regret for.
It is not the intention of the president to invite a foreign leader to the White House and then to be in a situation where they are embarrassed. So it was, again, something the president -- it should not have happened. It was -- a journalist crossed the line, it should not have happened.
The president expressed regret. And the Chinese leader and the Chinese delegation, I think, understood, and it did not in any way get in the way of what was a very constructive conversation between the two.
BLITZER: Did the president of the United States make any headway with the president of China on the issue of Iran and nuclear weapons?
HADLEY: They had a goody discussion about Iran. Obviously, the -- the next step is going to be at the Security Council next month. We've made it very clear that we think there needs to be a U.N. Security Council action, that that involves a resolution and probably a Chapter 7 resolution.
I think what was important is that President Hu Jintao made it very clear that he and the president have the same strategic view that a nuclear Iran is not in the interest of regional stability, not in the interest of the nonproliferation structure. So, there was an agreement on a need to -- a common strategic assessment of the situation, and agreement that we needed to work together towards trying to convince Iran to listen to the clear message of the entire international community and step back from this nuclear program that they are pursuing.
This is going to be to be sorted out. There's a lot of discussion now between now and May. But I think the important point is the two leaders have framed the issue and given clear guidance to their two delegations that on the basic strategic issue, the need to address this issue, the need to send a clear message to Iran, there is no disagreement between the two leaders.
BLITZER: We're almost out of time, Mr. Hadley, but on the issue of Iraq, there seems to be a potential breakthrough in Iraq. Ibrahim al-Jaafari is now willing to let his Shiite party go back and have another election to see if he should emerge as its candidate for the prime minister's job.
Is there -- is there an opportunity now, do you want Ibrahim al- Jaafari to step down, to let some other one, some Shiite leader take over who might be more acceptable to the Kurds and the Sunnis?
HADLEY: We've seen those reports. What we have said for some time, and our ambassador has said in Iraq, is that there needs to be a prime minister for Iraq who can unite the country, can draw support from all the various congressional groups: Shia, Sunni, Kurd, and others.
And secondly, a prime minister who's going to lead an effective government. That this is a government that's going to have a lot of challenges and a lot of opportunities. They are going to need to make the most of them.
So, our view has been, obviously, the selection of the prime minister is for the Iraqi people, but he needs to be a unifier and needs to be an effective leader.
BLITZER: Stephen Hadley, thanks for taking some time out on a busy day to come and join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
HADLEY: Thanks, Wolf, very much. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And still to come, Donald Trump, he'll weigh in on President Bush, the war in Iraq and Donald Rumsfeld. Who would he fire? I'll ask him when he joins us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Also, handling hecklers. Helpful hints for the Chinese president from some American pros. CNN's Jeanne Moos will take a look.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Zain Verjee is joining us once again from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a quick look at some other stories making headlines -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, as if surging gas prices aren't bad enough, now there are gasoline shortages at some supply terminals along the U.S. East Coast. The terminals distribute gasoline from refineries to gas stations. The Energy Department says the shortages are because the oil industry is phasing out a water-polluting additive called MTBE.
Police in Cherokee County, Kansas, say that they foiled an alleged plot by five teenage boys to go on a shooting rampage at a high school today. The five teens are under arrest.
Authorities say details on the alleged scheme appeared on the Web site myspace.com, including the fact that today's the anniversary of the 1999 Columbine school shooting. Police say they found guns, ammunition and knives in the suspects' bedrooms. Charges are pending
Fifty-three years after he became the first person to fly at twice the speed of sound, famed test pilot Scott Crossfield has died in a plane crash. He was flying from Alabama to Virginia yesterday, when his single-engine Cessna just went down. Searchers found the plane's wreckage today just north of Atlanta. The cause of the crash is under investigation.
Scott Crossfield was 84
And a big legal victory for the writers of the hit TV series "Friends." The California Supreme Court today ruled that the writers did not sexually harass a female employee when they talked dirty and made lewd jokes. The woman had sued, alleging that she was fired after she complained she was subjected to racial and sexual slurs. The court said "Friends" was an adult-oriented comedy and the writers' language was not directed at her -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much.
Nearly 80 percent of car crashes involve someone distracted at the wheel within three seconds of the accident. That's according to a comprehensive study released just today.
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, is standing by with details -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, that full report -- and it's a big one, some 200 pages -- is available online from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. It does include some photographs of the technology that was used to outfit the cars used in the experiment.
Some of the interesting findings is, 18 to 20-year-olds were four times more likely than anyone over 35 to get into a crash or a near- crash because they were distracted. And the NHTSA has a Web site online geared towards young adults to advise them of just this issue, driving while distracted.
Another interesting thing to note is that a cell phone was most often cited as the reason why people swerved. Now might be a good time to brush up on your cell phone laws. You can go to the Governors Highway Safety Association. They have updated this informs in anticipation of this new report.
And you might be interested to know that only three states and the District of Columbia -- that would be New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, and the District of Columbia, require you to use a hands- free headset when you're talking on your cell phone while driving.
Now, it's a lot of information. I know these Web sites are tough to go to. You can go to cnn.com/situationreport. We've got all of those links up there and you can take a closer look -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jacki, for that
Just ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, some say he's a man with a Midas touch. But could Donald Trump succeed in politics? And is he interested? And would he fire Donald Rumsfeld? I'll ask him.
Plus, hecklers over at the White House. CNN's Jeanne Moos looks at the long tradition and the how pros handle it.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends over at The Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.
Washington, D.C. , Chinese protesters square off. Those in favor and against President Hu's visit to the White House gather across the street.
In Nepal, police open fire on tens of thousands of demonstrators who defied a curfew to march toward the capital, demanding an end to the monarchy. Three people were killed, dozens more wounded.
In Idaho, a firefighter on a the scene of a blaze that engulfed a family home. Everyone made it out alive. And check this out. In Israel, in Jerusalem, Mr. and Mrs. Smith visit Jerusalem. To be specific, that's Will Smith and his wife Jada Pinkett. They paid a visit today to the Western Wall.
And he's made a fortune in real estate over the years. Now he's a primetime reality TV star as well. Could politics be the next big venture for Donald Trump?
Let's bring in our Mary Snow. She's got some ideas on the man with the so-called Midas touch -- Mary.
Well, Wolf, he may have a Midas touch, but Donald Trump's latest project has nothing to do with making money. He's giving away property for protected park land. And it seems every time he makes headlines, questions soon follow about a possible future in politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice over): He became famous for developing casinos and high-rise condos bearing his name. Now comes a new kind of property for Donald Trump.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: All in all, almost 440 acres of magnificent open space.
SNOW: Virtually empty space north of New York City worth $100 million, by Trump's account. The billionaire donated the untouched land, now named The Donald J. Trump State Park by New York's governor. But some want to see the name Trump on another piece of state property, the governor's mansion.
JOSEPH BRUNO (R), NEW YORK SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: When it gets public, you are all going to be excited, interested, and want to write and show and do everything else.
SNOW: That was in December, when a top state lawmaker played coy with reporters about behind-the-scenes discussions to convince Trump to run for governor. Trump declined, but didn't stop another draft movement weeks later.
FRANK MACKAY, NEW YORK INDEPENDENCE PARTY: Donald Trump has a serious chance to be the president of the United States.
SNOW: The state Independence Party chairman launched a movement to draft Trump for president in 2008. He wants Trump to take his brand of boldness from his reality show "The Apprentice"...
DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": You're fired.
SNOW: ... and use it in Washington. Trump declined, saying no thanks for now. Life with his wife and new baby is keeping him plenty busy. But he hasn't always been against the prospect of being president. This was Trump on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE" in 1999.
TRUMP: So I'm going to form a presidential exploratory committee. I might as well announce it on your show. Everyone else does.
SNOW: Months later, he decided not to run on the Reform Party ticket.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now, instead Trump is helping others run, having given money to everyone from Hillary Clinton to John McCain to John Kerry to Rudy Giuliani. And besides money, he is also readily offers his opinions on key issue like Iraq, keeping people guessing about his own ambitions -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary, thank you very much. I spoke earlier today with the Donald himself.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And joining us now from his offices at the Trump Tower on 5th Avenue in New York City is Donald Trump. Donald, thanks very much for joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
TRUMP: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: I want to get to the $100 million donation you made to my home state in New York, in a short while, this park, the land you've donated to the people of New York. But let's talk about politics a little bit right now, because I know you are interested in that subject. What do you make of the current turmoil here in Washington?
TRUMP: Well, I've never seen anything quite like it, actually. I like so many people in Washington and I like so many people within the administration but it is definitely turmoil, and I think a lot of it's having to do with the war in Iraq. People are very, very unhappy. They have never seen anything quite like the mess we're in.
BLITZER: Let me play for you a sound byte of what the president said about Donald Rumsfeld, his defense secretary, what the president said earlier this week. Listen to this.
BUSH: I have strong confidence in Don Rumsfeld. I hear the voices and I read the front page. And I know the speculation, but I'm the decider, and I decide what is best, and what is best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the secretary of defense.
BLITZER: All right, now here's the question. If Don Rumsfeld worked for you, what would you say to him?
TRUMP: Well, I know what you want me, you want me to say "You're fired." But I wouldn't necessarily say that. Look, he's worked very hard. He's a good man. I've been watching him for years. And three or four years ago, he was a rock star. He'd go on and your ratings would double. Everybody loved him. Today, it's just the opposite. He came out the other day, said this, too shall pass.
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But I have a feeling it probably won't. Because Iraq is a disaster, and I just don't think that Iraq is going to govern itself, probably, without a civil war. I think you are going to end up with a civil war no matter what we do. I guess they are probably already in a civil war and it's going to be a shame. And, all the people that were killed, all the money that's been spent. I'm not just talking about American soldiers, I'm talking about the Iraqis.
You look at what's happening over there. I think it's going to be a horrible civil war, somebody will emerge from that war, probably tougher and meaner than Saddam Hussein, and that's what you are going to have it. And it's a pretty sad situation.
BLITZER: I watch "The Apprentice," your hit show on television, I know you know how to fire people. You do it all the time. This president doesn't like to fire people. He seems to be very loyal, sometimes to a fault. Is that a problem that you see, from a management style?
TRUMP: Well, in a certain way, I love the president's loyalty because there's nothing better than loyalty. At certain points in time, and not because somebody's bad or doing a bad job. Sometimes a change is important, and when you look at the level of popularity, when you look at a lot of things having to do with the president, perhaps a change is something that he should be doing. But at the same time, he is a very loyal man and you really have to commend him for that.
BLITZER: Why wouldn't you fire Donald Rumsfeld, if he worked to you, and helped get you into this mess, as you described it, in Iraq?
TRUMP: Well, I'm not saying I wouldn't fire him. I'm saying I don't think the president will, and based on what's been said over the last couple of days, he certainly doesn't seem like he's going to fire Rumsfeld. But the war is a disaster. I think it's only going to get worse, and it's a shame.
We have these great, great soldiers, these unbelievable soldiers over there, and you know what's happening, you know what's happening better than I do. It's a very sad situation. I think probably something would be done by most people. I don't think this president will fire Secretary Rumsfeld.
BLITZER: Let me press you. Would you?
TRUMP: Well, I would make a change. I would do something to get out of that war as quickly as possible. Because I think the inevitable result, and this has nothing to do with our fighting men, this has nothing to do with anything. The inevitable result is disaster. The inevitable result is civil war. It's now, it's happening all around us, despite the soldiers. And I think that probably sometimes you can just say, let's declare victory and leave.
BLITZER: Everybody knows you're a world class executive, a manager. How would you -- if the president called you into the Oval Office and said, the Donald, I need some help. How do I extricate myself from this blunder, from this mess? What would you tell him? TRUMP: Well, you know, years ago, when I was going to college, Wolf, everybody said, in Vietnam, declare victory and get out, OK? Maybe that's what we should be doing. Just say, hey, we won the war, and now, lots of luck, folks. Because, what's happening there is just something that's inevitable. Now, we have a bigger problem. We have a lot bigger problems than Iraq.
We have a problem in Iran where they are making nuclear missiles and in my opinion, they are going to be shortly making nuclear missiles. Certainly, they are working on the experiment, and they are learning a lot very quickly, and they are doing things very quickly, and within a couple of years we are going to be in real trouble if something's not done about that.
Now the only thing I can say, and the thing I like most about what's happening in Iraq, and the only thing good to come out of Iraq, is you happen to be based right next to Iran. But something has to be done with Iran, and something has to be done with North Korea.
BLITZER: Critical issues, no doubt. Let's talk a little about politics. We did some research. We found out that you donated $6,000 to John McCain and the Straight Talk America PAC, $2,900 to Senator Hillary Clinton. Both of them potentially front-runners for their respective parties' presidential nominations. Are you hedging your bet?
TRUMP: No, I'm not hedging my bets. I know both of them, I respect both of them. Hillary Clinton is a fantastic woman who I've known for a long time, and I know her husband very well. And they're, you know, terrific people.
And John McCain, I think I was the first person ever to contribute to his campaign when he was running years and years ago. A friend of his asked me to make a contribution, I did. I heard it was the first contribution, political contribution, he ever got.
No, I'm not hedging my bets. They have a long way to go. I mean, they're going to be pretty rough primaries. I think it's going to be tough for anybody to get through those primaries alive. It's going to be a long road for all of them, but it'll be interesting to see.
I think Hillary actually has probably the easier road in the Democratic primary, and John has a little bit tougher road because he tends to be a little bit on the liberal side, as you probably have heard.
BLITZER: I know you're a Republican. Who would you vote for in a Hillary Clinton, John McCain presidential contest, if that were to happen?
TRUMP: Well, let's say it's not a question that I'm going to answer, but I think a lot of both people.
BLITZER: You like them both. What about Rudy Giuliani? TRUMP: He's terrific. I was with him this weekend. He's a terrific guy, and of course he has -- certainly hedges that nobody knows if Rudy's running, but he's a fantastic guy. He did a great job as mayor, and he's another one. I mean, you have many, many very talented people running or looking to run or at least thinking about it, and certainly Rudy's one of them.
BLITZER: The chairman of the New York State Independent Party, Frank MacKay, put up a Web site the other day, a draft Donald Trump for president site. I'll read you a line from it. He says, "America needs a decisive CEO-style president to straighten out Washington, not another politician. We need a candidate that can awaken the electorate in 2008 with a serious, non-partisan political agenda."
I remember a few years ago we spoke, and you were thinking at that time, fairly seriously, about running for president. Is that out of your agenda right now or is that something that's possible?
TRUMP: Well, first of all, his statement -- and he's a very highly respected guy, as you know. He's done an amazing job with the Independent Party, and his statement is correct. I mean, they need something in Washington and they need that somebody and that something fast. So the statement itself I agree with.
I am having such a great time doing what I'm doing in the world of real estate, and now, all of sudden, the world of television with the great success of "The Apprentice." Who would have thought this would have gone to the number one show on television? Certainly not you, Wolf, when you were interviewing me just before we went on. And, you know, it just became this tremendous success. It continues to be this big success, and I'm having a lot of fun doing it.
So I'm honored by Frank. I tell you, he's a great guy. He's a very respected guy, and especially around, you know, the New York parts. His party could very well be the third party, and I think probably will end up being the third party very soon.
BLITZER: So can we take from that that you're removing yourself as a possible candidate for either president or senate or governor or mayor or anything along those lines, at least for the foreseeable future?
TRUMP: Well, as you know, they asked me to run for governor very strongly, and a number of people asked me to run from all different sectors. And the answer is no, and I'm also a big supporter -- and a very big supporter -- of Eliot Spitzer.
In fact, I was sort of joking with Eliot, wouldn't it be interesting -- I'm a contributor to Eliot. I believe in Eliot. He's a great man. He's going to be a great governor. And wouldn't it be interesting if I contributed to his campaign and then ran against him. That would be a first in the history of politics, I think.
BLITZER: Probably would be. He's the Democratic candidate of governor of New York State. Let's talk a little bit about this land that you're donating to New York State. It's 436, a suburb of New York City, Westchester County, $100 million has been its estimate value. Everybody knows that you're a developer. You're not just somebody who gives away land. Why aren't you developing this land?
TRUMP: Well, I've had the land a long time. I bought it a long time ago. It's right along the Taconic Parkway, which for your national viewers, is just a great location. And I looked at it. I looked at it many, many times. It's zoned for residential. It would be terrific, but it really sets up unbelievably well for the state to do a great park, and I think it'll be one of the most beautiful parks in the country when they're finished.
And it's a contribution I'm making. It's a very valuable piece of land, as you can imagine. And it's a contribution I'm making to the state, and the state has decided to do an amazing park. And when it's finished, I think it will be one of the most beautiful anywhere.
BLITZER: And it's going to be called the "Donald Trump State Park," is that right?
TRUMP: Well, I was honored when Governor Pataki, who we were on the land -- actually, we were on the land yesterday, I almost changed my mind; it was so beautiful on this piece of land. I was standing at the top of this hill, overlooking the Hudson River and the Hudson Valley, and I almost changed my mind at the news conference.
I said, You know, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. But the fact is, it's a great piece of land and I was very honored when Governor Pataki announced that he was going to name it the "Donald J. Trump State Park." That was very nice of him.
BLITZER: Thanks for doing that, on behalf of all of the residents of New York state and the visitors who will be coming from other states as well.
We're almost out of time, but I want to talk to you about your wife, Melania. She gave birth three weeks ago to Baron. We got some new pictures today from our sister publication, "People" magazine. I want to put those up, show our viewers some of those pictures right there. "Billion Dollar Baby," that's what they call Baron.
How does it feel to be a dad at this -- middle age, let's say, that you are, because you're not that old. I'm relatively the same age.
TRUMP: I'm 59, and I feel very good, and it's probably keeping me young. And the "New York Post" had Baron on the cover today, so he's a very famous child at three weeks old. But the fact is that Melania is a great wife and a great mother, and I'm very honored by it. And Baron is healthy and beautiful, and it's terrific.
BLITZER: A beautiful picture, a beautiful baby -- have you started changing diapers yet? TRUMP: I haven't, but I would, if necessary. But you know, she's the type of mother that really wants to do that, and that's okay with me. If she wants to do it, that's absolutely fine with me.
BLITZER: All right. Donald Trump, thanks for joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM. Let's continue these conversations down the road.
TRUMP: Thank you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And up ahead -- we told you about that lone woman who heckled two of the world's most powerful men over at the White House earlier today. But CNN's Jeanne Moos reminds us of some other memorable moments in the history of harassment. We're going to show you those moments.
And from one nation to another. Does the U.S. have the right to lecture China about human rights? That's Jack Cafferty's question of the hour. He's standing by with your replies. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Bottom line on the markets today: A series of positive earnings reports helped drive the Dow Jones Industrial Average up to a six-year high. Check it out. The Nasdaq was down; the S&P up slightly.
Peppered with pessimism, hounded by hecklers. What's a world leader to do if they find themselves upstaged by a loud and uninvited guest? Our Jeanne Moos has some tips.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was all pomp until circumstance intervened. China's president has just launched into his speech when the dialogue got really enhanced by a heckler, upset about what she called the persecution of a Chinese religious sect.
Chinese presidents aren't used to being interrupted, so President Bush offered an encouraging "You're OK."
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're OK.
MOOS: After all, W. is used to be heckled. In democracies, even the pope gets heckled. So we thought maybe China's president could use some tips on how to handle hecklers. The first thing you do, is smile. But beware of hecklers who sneak up behind you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we could ask the staff to see to it that our guests were escorted.
MOOS: And even if hecklers are stripped of their banners, they might off to just strip. Al Gore's technique was to roll his eyes and say "later." AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: I'll be glad to talk with you afterwards, if you like.
MOOS: Or you can hope one of your supporters puts the heckler in a headlock. Or you can do as Hillary do and appeal to the majority.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: And I do not believe that they want to hear from you, at this moment.
MOOS: The master at handing hecklers was Bill Clinton. Confronted by AIDS protester...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you going to do about AIDS?
MOOS: ... First he accommodated.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't mind listening. You can talk.
MOOS: Then he cajoled.
CLINTON: Now will you just calm down?
MOOS: Then he got annoyed.
CLINTON: If I was dying of ambition, I wouldn't have stood up here and put up with all this crap I put up with the last six months.
MOOS: Then he got really mad.
CLINTON: Make snotty-nosed remarks about how I haven't done anything in my life and it's all driven by ambition. That's bull.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a member of the public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So am I.
MOOS: Wonder how you say that in Chinese? Another master of the heckler putdown was Ronald Reagan.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, shut up.
MOOS: There is one good all-purpose line.
B. CLINTON: I feel your pain.
MOOS: And if all else fails...
B. CLINTON: ... Bye.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: He was terrific at that. Jack Cafferty standing by with "The Cafferty File." He's unique, Bill Clinton.
CAFFERTY: That was great stuff. Are you aware, Wolf, that THE SITUATION ROOM is seen in Helsinski, Finland?
BLITZER: Yes, we're seen on CNN International around the world.
CAFFERTY: Because I've got a letter here from a woman in Helsinki I'll read you in a minute. The question is, does the U.S. have the right to lecture China's about human rights?
Kevin in New York writes: Mr. Bush has no right, inherent or otherwise, to lecture anyone.
Talking about that woman demonstrator who broke up that ceremony today at the White House, "If he truly believed in democracy, the concept he supposedly wants to instill in Iraq, he would have stepped forward and said, "This is America. Let the woman speak."
Jaska in Helsinki, Finland: Absolutely not. We in Europe are in constant shock over how the United States has changed into a country that keeps bending the very rules it has built its greatness on.
Eddie in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania: Of course President Bush has the right to lecture China on human rights issues. Isolated incidents at Abu Ghraib and certain instances of wiretapping pale in comparison to the deliberate restriction of freedom of speech, self- determination, and government-sanctioned violent oppression of religious sects. To compare the United States human rights abuses to China's actual acts of persecution, not only unfounded by absurd.
Robin in Jonesboro, Georgia: Bush's human rights violations at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, semi-secret sites in Europe, the Middle East, and New Orleans make a mockery of his tin-soldier review for President Hu today. There is no moral ground, he has none on which to stand.
Laura in Columbia, Maryland: I was just thinking this morning about the two women escorted off of the floor of the Capitol, Cindy Sheehan was one, for simply wearing T-shirts that disagreed with the president's policies on Iraq. What an excellent role model for President Hu to follow.
And Vincent writes in New York: Well said, Jack, but watch out for the black vans. It would be a tragedy if you became proof of your point.
Yes it would, Wolf.
BLITZER: Glad we're getting e-mails from our viewers around the world. We're seen in over 200 countries and territories on CNN International, THE SITUATION ROOM around the world.
Let's bring in Paula Zahn now, she's joining us with a preview of what's coming up at the top of hour. Paula?
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And we watch from right here in New York City too, Wolf, every night. Coming up in just about six minutes, new details from the night a woman says she was raped by Duke University lacrosse players, as well as some new information on what police hoped to find when they searched one of the suspect's dorm rooms.
Also, amazing video of the bad things that happens when drivers get distraction, or distracted. Distractions cause a vast majority of car crashes, you know the stupid things that some people do, like excessively talk on cell phones. Wolf, not so smart when you're travelling 65 miles-an-hour on a freeway.
BLITZER: And BlackBerrys even worse, don't do it. Thanks Paula, very much. Still to come, a new way to call a taxi. Small planes, planes at your service? We're going to take a look at the future. The future may be now. Here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Miles O'Brien, standing by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: If you're dreading those long waits at the airports this summer, CNN's Miles O'Brien shows us an alternative. Miles?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, there is nothing glamorous or easy about business air travel, especially since 9/11. Long lines, overcrowded, delayed and canceled flights all add to the aggravation. Wouldn't it be cool if hopping in a plane were as easy as hailing a cab?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN (voice-over): Ken Stackpoole of Embry Riddle (ph) Aeronautical University says the future of air travel is in smaller planes flying to smaller airports.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the positives of using small aircrafts in the small airports is the small airports are usually closer to the real destination that you want to get to.
O'BRIEN: Just one reason why Stackpoole says the air taxi concept is ready for takeoff. In fact, he says air taxi operators are already lined up to buy a new fleet of very light jets. Once FAA certification comes through.
And the taxi fare for passengers? About a dollar per mile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within the next couple of years you're going to be able to go to your nearest airport, flag down your air taxi pilot and fly to your destination quicker, less expensive and at the time that you choose to fly rather than on an airline schedule as we fly today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN (on camera): Stackpoole says these air taxi jets will have the latest satellite-based navigation technology so they can safely and reliably fly to smaller airports that are not equipped with control towers or more sophisticated ground-based equipment -- Wolf. BLITZER: Miles, thank you very much. And remember, we're in THE SITUATION ROOM weekdays 4:00-to-6:00 p.m. Eastern and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Let's go up to New York, Paula's standing by -- Paula.
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