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President Bush, President Hu Jintao Hold Press Conference; Interview with Senior Statesman of Iraq; Protests Turn Violent in Nepal

Aired April 20, 2006 - 12:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: All right, we've been listening there to President Hu Jintao, alongside U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House. And make no mistake, this was more than just the cliche of East meets West.
This was a meeting in what may be the forming of one of the most important political relationships in the world -- 1.3 billion people in China, really propelling its economy and pushing its politics on to the world stage. China, a nation that is trying to do what has never been done before, and that is to have a free market economy, an economy that is flourishing, doubling the income of many of its residents every few years.

Alongside that, though, authoritarian rule. And one very interesting point there. Hu Jintao was asked by a reporter a question that included the word "democracy," and there was a little debate over that. He said, "It depends on what you mean by democracy."

And here you see the differences that have to be faced by these two leaders as they sit down and talk. He said, "We talk about orderly participation, democratic supervision, democratic management." The understanding on the other side, in the United States, would be something that was very different.

Clearly, there was no real progress on some of the fundamentals. Taiwan, that was an issue that President Bush appeared to be reassuring him on, President Hu Jintao. And President Hu Jintao then very much, for the home audience, trying to reassert, Hala, that was an issue that wasn't up for negotiation.

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: All right. And we're going to go to the White House in just a second, on the White House lawn, where there was an unexpected heckler there trying to disrupt the speech by President Hu.

Now, the Chinese government has blocked CNN's signal on the occasions where we broadcast pictures of that heckler. Those pictures were initially broadcast live during the speech that happened on the White House lawn with President Hu and President Bush. And official Chinese news agencies are reporting on the visit by President Hu to the United States, but not on that heckler which you see there on your screen, or on any of the protests which are taking place outside of the White House security perimeter.

All right. We're going to take you live now to our White House reporter, Elaine Quijano, for more on that speech and on a very, very delicate balancing act there, diplomatic balancing act with the two leaders today -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Hala. And what's important to note, first out, is that what really informs, if you will, U.S. policy in its approach to China is President Bush's belief that the United States and other countries of the world should not view China's as a threat, that it should not view China's rise to power, it's emergence as a global power as a threat or something to be feared.

That is why, in fact, we did see such an elaborate, formal welcoming ceremony for President Hu on the south lawn of the White House. That is why we saw the military, the ceremonial Honor Guard there, the Review of the Honor Guard, with a 21-gun salute, because it is well understood here at the White House that the message back home to the Chinese people is very important for President Hu to project that he, in fact, is being treated with the utmost respect. But it is very clear that the countries are still far apart on issues.

President Bush, asked, as we heard just a short time ago, about whether or not he was able to get China on board and behind the idea of possibly using sanctions against Iran if, in fact, it does not comply with the international community's demands to curb its nuclear ambitions, President Bush, notably, did not say yes or no. What he did say is that it is important to recognize, in effect, that China understand Iran should not get its hands on a nuclear weapon. But on that specific point of sanctions, no word or announcement of any progress on that issue.

Also, on the North Korea nuclear issue, as well, China saying that, in fact, it is doing its part to help with that -- that particular area of the world, but at the same time, the United States believes China still has much more considerable influence it can use to get the North Koreans back to the table when it comes to those six- party, six-nation talks. And so that is another area.

Of course, trade and economic ties, that huge trade deficit the United States has, more than $200 billion last year with China, obviously on the minds of the American business community. And on that particular point, interesting as well that we heard President Bush essentially going back to that idea of not necessarily fearing competitiveness, sending a message to the American business community in particular that China should not be viewed as a threat, but perhaps a land of opportunities for American businesses.

And talking about, again, the vast number of people, 1.3 billion people in China. So, this really -- the overall message from the United States here, the president and the world should not -- the president does not view China has a threat. Really, this is about China and the United States having mutual interest and cooperating on these mutual issues -- Hala.

GORANI: Elaine Quijano, this background noise, what we're hearing there, demonstrators protesting President Hu's visit and China's record on human rights. Tell us more about that. QUIJANO: Well, I haven't had a chance to go out there myself. I can tell you, though, that there is a sizable group that is out there, perhaps possibly a patchwork of groups that is out demonstrating, surrounding President Hu's visit here to the White House.

They are quite loud. They are quite vocal. Unclear, though, whether or not they, in fact, are anti-Chinese government demonstrators, or, in fact, if there are some -- some supporters of the Chinese government as well.

I should tell you, yesterday, as I was leaving the White House compound here, I did, in fact, see both sides near the Blair House, where President Hu and members of the Chinese delegation were staying or set to arrive. And it was very difficult to tell, in fact, exactly how many people on either side there were. They were very intermingled.

But they have, in fact, made their presence known here. And as you noted, there was that disturbance, a very rare occurrence for such a formal, elaborate ceremony. At one point, that heckler, who was about 30 feet away or so from -- on a platform, on a camera platform 15 feet high, shouting and screaming in Chinese, in the midst of President Hu's statement -- Hala.

GORANI: Elaine Quijano, live at the White House, thank you. .

CLANCY: What a visit it's been thus far. And that is, of course, his visit to Washington, the subject of our question to you this day.

GORANI: All right. What we're asking is should China assume any global responsibilities as its economic power grows?

CLANCY: We want to know what you think. E-mail us your answers or your comments to ywt@cnn.com. We'll be reading some of them out here on the air a little bit later in this program.

GORANI: We move now to news that months of political wrangling in Iraq could be over -- could be over -- within a matter of days. Politicians have delayed a meeting of parliament until Saturday, promising to reach an agreement on filling the country's top posts. The squabbling has delayed the creation of new unity government, considered crucial to stemming the insurgency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JALAL TALABANI, IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): We have agreed on the framework. We just need to work out some minor details now. There will be a friendly atmosphere and there will be a national unity government, and we will all be satisfied with the outcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: Now, the main sticking point has been the nomination of Ibrahim Al Jaafari to serve another term at the prime minister. Despite opposition from many corners, he has been unwilling to step aside as the ruling Shia Muslim Coalition's choice until now.

Let's get details from all of this from the acting speaker of parliament, Adnan Pachachi. He joins us now from Baghdad.

Many people consider you, Mr. Pachachi, to be the senior statesman of Iraq, a former foreign minister for the country in the 1950s. You have worked through a lot of these problems in the past. You are the one with the experience. How does it look to you? So many people want to see a government. Are they close to a compromise that will work?

ADNAN PACHACHI, ACTING SPEAKER OF PARLIAMENT: Well, we have -- I think we have reached a point where we can hope that a compromise may be achieved. We still have problems, and that's why we have been postponing the meeting of parliament several times. But the people are becoming rather impatient, and they are losing rapidly their confidence and faith in the political class. And this is something we have to avoid at all coasts, because the future of democracy in Iraq really hinges on the faith people have in the democratic process.

CLANCY: The people...

PACHACHI: So We have to -- yes, go ahead.

CLANCY: The people see them largely as ineffective, not only in trying to form the government, but once they get into government. Do the politicians that you speak with, negotiate, talk with, do they understand that and that it must change?

PACHACHI: Well, I think they are becoming more aware of it, really, now and they're understanding it better now. But unfortunately, you know, the fight for positions and influence is still very much -- very much on their minds. But I'm a politician, too, so I can't say that I'm different from them. But perhaps I'm less inclined because of my age to fight tooth and nail for position.

The problem is that they must realize that the country can't go on like this. The insurgency and the terrorism, the acts of violence, are not abating, are increasing. And the -- there is a kind of malaise now in the country that really should be addressed very, very, very soon and very effectively.

CLANCY: The issues, Mr. Pachachi, are very clear. Someone has to take a hand to steer the country toward unity and away from sectarian militias, away from support of either tribal or religious affiliations. Is there someone there in Iraq strong enough, respected enough, to do that?

PACHACHI: Well, you know, our movement, our group -- we have only, unfortunately, only 25 seats of parliament. But our group, you know, rejects sectarianism as a basis for political activity. And it is really a national list. We have Sunnis, Shias, Kurds, Arabs, Christians, and so on. And we believe in democracy, we believe in -- we are a secular group. We believe in democracy and freedom and equality of all people in Iraq, respective of their religious or ethnic affiliations. But we are... CLANCY: But so many people recognize, Mr. Pachachi -- so many people recognize that the future of this country is, by the ballot box, in the hands of Shia Muslims. Mr. Hakim's party, his group, SCIRI, is going to be making a lot of the calls here. Do they have the expertise -- do they have the determination to carry it forward in a non-sectarian way? What's your thought?

PACHACHI: Well, I think, you know, the religious parties, you know, their raison d'etre is their -- they have to play this card of religious differences. This is what gives them their political base and their power. We are creating a movement which I think, with time, will get more support among the people, a movement that does not accept the sectarian religious divisions of society as a basis for political activity.

And that -- that's why I believe that we have to be patient, we have to work very hard at it. And I believe, although we have had a setback in the recent elections, we have to continue, really, propagating this idea of secularism and freedom and the separation of religion from the state.

CLANCY: Democracy is new for many Iraqis, but every Iraqi I've spoken to says that they want it. They expect a lot to come from the politicians. In your experience, as you look at this scene right now, are the Iraqi people going to be disappointed at the outcome of all of this, at the leadership that they eventually get?

PACHACHI: I think they are already disappointed. They are disappointed by the fact that it has taken more than four months and still, it did not -- the matter has not been resolved of creating a truly national community government. They are disappointed, and I think that disappointment will deepen as time runs out. You know, time is running out, you know, for the politicians, I believe. And they must realize that, if they don't deliver, and very soon, there will be trouble in this country.

I hope that this feeling, really, that is pervading the country will really put some pressure on the politicians to compromise and reach a solution that will be acceptable. But that does not mean that we are going to be -- we'll be able to solve all our problems. No, far from it, because we have enormous problems ahead of us. And we need, first of all, you know, competent people and honest people to run the important departments of government. This is something which is absolutely essential, I think.

CLANCY: Adnan Pachachi, the acting speaker of the Iraqi parliament. I want to thank you very much, sir, for being with us today...

PACHACHI: Thank you.

CLANCY: ... and frankly speaking of the situation facing your country.

GORANI: We're going to take a short break here on YOUR WORLD TODAY. When we come back... CLANCY: Crisis point. Protesters in Nepal make clear what they want: an end to the king's rule and a return to democracy. Police have responded with bullets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: This is YOUR WORLD TODAY. In Nepal now, police opened fire to block tens of thousands of pro-democracy protesters from marching into the capital to confront their king. At least three people were killed, dozens were wounded. The government has extended a strict curfew in Nepal. The mountain kingdom has been rocked by weeks of protests against a monarch who seized complete control last year.

Senior international correspondent Satinder Bindra is in the capital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SATINDER BINDRA, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Defiance on display. Despite an 18-hour curfew, demonstrators again take to the streets in Nepal's capital, Katmandu. More than 100,000 of them, by official count. Though hopelessly outnumbered, police stopped protesters from getting through a barricade, firing live ammunition and rubber bullets. Many policemen are hit by rocks thrown by the crowd. Dozens of police and protesters are injured.

Still a majority of these demonstrators hold their ground, hoping this display of strength sends a clear message to Nepal's monarchy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thousands and thousands of people have come out on the streets and rejected the (INAUDIBLE) government. They have rejected the (INAUDIBLE) autocracy. They have rejected the king's rule.

BINDRA: A worried administration even denied journalists their usual curfew passes in an effort to keep them from covering the protests. Some journalists snuck out anyway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly a sign of weakness, I think (INAUDIBLE) realizes that he's running out of options.

BINDRA: Nepal's pro-democracy movement, now in its third week of street demonstrations, is putting almost unbearable pressure on the king. The international community, too, wants Nepal's monarch to reconcile with the country's political parties.

(on camera): On Thursday, a senior Indian diplomat met with King (INAUDIBLE) in his palace just down this road. But so far, there's no indication that the king is keen to hand over political power anytime soon.

With no solution in sight, analysts are warning Maoists rebels waging a 10-year-old insurgency to set up a community state are getting dangerously powerful. JAMES MORIARTY, U.S. AMB. TO NEPAL: You have pretty close to a revolutionary situation here. I think the Maoists insurgents in particular want to make sure this place does spin into a violent revolution, because they think that at the end of that revolution, they're going to come out on top.

BINDRA (voice-over): The likelihood of communists running Nepal and influencing politics in South Asia scares neighboring India, as well as the United States. Even Nepal's political parties fear the Maoists, but are working with them during these protests because they believe it may be possible to try to transform them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long do you go on fighting with them. So, if there is an opportunity, what I am saying is sincerely (ph) if there is a space for engagement, which could bring them to peaceful politics, we must engage with them.

BINDRA: For all the concern over Nepal's growing instability, these demonstrators say they have a plan. Once the king is gone, they say it may be easier to cut a deal with Maoists to stage elections in this troubled tourist paradise.

Satinder Bindra, CNN, Katmandu Nepal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: That was Satinder Bindra reporting. We are going to have a lot more after a short break on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CLANCY: All right. Everyone come back.

The historic meeting at the White House between China and the U.S. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY. Live pictures of protests outside the White House. Demonstrators there opposing the visit of president Hu Jintao to Washington D.C., criticizing the Chinese government in some cases for its human rights record.

Now, we're going to take a closer look at the future of U.S./China relations. To help sort it out, Derek Mitchell joins us from Washington. He is a senior fellow, Asia Project, at the International Security Program Center for Strategic and International Studies. Thanks for joining us. Got you that really long job description.

All right, what do you make of these protests? Is that an embarrassment, do you think, for China, to have these protesters so close to where the summit is being held inside the White House?

DEREK J. MITCHELL, INTL. SECURITY PROGRAM: This is a huge embarrassment. I mean, I really can't overstate how important this -- the pageantry and the symbolism of that South Lawn greeting was. The Chinese were able to call it a state visit, et cetera, even though we didn't. They wanted to beam back to Beijing pictures that were perfect, pictures that demonstrated that Hu was getting good face.

Most of the arrangements, most of the pre-arrangements with the White House, were not about substance; they were about this pageantry, to make sure everything was controlled adequately. So the fact that that went poorly just set a very bad mood, very bad tone, as they went into closed doors to talk about some very serious issues.

GORANI: And just to let our viewers know, once again, that the Chinese government blocked CNN International's signal in China when this network was airing live pictures of that heckler that we saw there among the camera people on that stand, and also those protesters outside the gates of the White House. Derek, a very delicate balancing act there, diplomatically speaking, for George W. Bush, right?

MITCHELL: Yes, in various levels. I mean, we need China for a lot of issues internationally, like non-proliferation in Iran and North Korea. We need them to do certain things in the international trade regime, because we have a $200 billion trade deficit. So there are a lot of things that we need to talk seriously about with China, but the president also has a domestic constituency.

There are growing political surrounding China, again, regarding economics and trade and the currency being undervalued in the sense of Americans losing jobs to China. It may not be exactly accurate, but generally, the sense of economic vulnerability to this growing behemoth of China. So he has to both put a positive spin on the relationship, but also represent the growing vulnerability Americans feel about the rising Chinese economy and society.

GORANI: There was an interesting editorial in "The Independent," a U.K. paper, saying, "While Mr. Bush has only giving Mr. Hu an hour of his time for a state lunch, the global balance of power is changing, and in future meetings, the Chinese will set the timetable." Do you agree with that?

MITCHELL: That's a very interesting -- I mean, it's true. China's influence -- we used to speak about, when you go back -- we used to speak about the potential or the future rise of China as if it were something 10, 15, 20 years hence.

Regardless of what statistics might say, China's rise is here because other nations are accommodating to this vast market, they're accommodating to China's growing political, diplomatic and even military power, both in Asia and globally. So, the idea that may end up working the United States, rather than the United States shaping China, is very interesting and now a little bit of irony there.

GORANI: OK. More about President Hu. You know, very little is actually known about the man who's been president of China for three years now. What type of person is he and what was he trying to achieve with this visit?

MITCHELL: Well, this visit, again, the symbolism was critical. He wanted to get the same face that his predecessors had -- Jiang Zemin, Deng Xiaoping. And he even went to Seattle first, which his predecessors did. He wanted the trappings (ph) in the South Lawn.

For him, this is checking the box so they can go back and assume that he is, you know, going through the right of passage for leadership in China. He himself as a person is known as somewhat, not terribly colorful, very smart, very much adheres to his talking points, doesn't really stray very far, very disciplined.

And so far, we have seen that, I think, in both the summit context, and also in his policies back home. Nothing really revolutionary. Very slow movement on many issues.

GORANI: All right. Derek Mitchell, Center for Strategic and International Studies joining us live from Washington, thank you very much.

MITCHELL: Thank you.

GORANI: All right, it's time to open up our "Inbox." And we have been asking you for your thoughts about this state visit -- or this visit, really, by the Chinese president.

CLANCY: And this is the question: Should China assume any global responsibilities as its economic power grows on the world stage? Now, we've got a good sampling of people all around the world. Here's how some of you replied.

GORANI: KB from Shanghai says, "Only by engaging China as an equal can it gradually align and reform itself to be closer to the normal practices and behaviors that we all desire."

CLANCY: Now, this came in from Malaysia, Jennifer writing, "Of course. Those who oppose are just downright jealous and apprehensive of a smoldering dragon showing its fangs at the one day."

Well a painful and poignant time in the United States. There's a movie about to come out that explores what it must have been like aboard one of those planes that was hijacked on September 11th.

GORANI: It involves United flight 93, the jet that crashed ultimately in a field in Pennsylvania, and it was most likely because of the passengers' brave confrontation with the terrorists aboard.

CLANCY: Is it too soon for a movie on such a distressing subject, or is it about time?

GORANI: Carol Costello explores that debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flight attendants, prepare for takeoff please.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It takes us back to that beautiful day in September, when the world changed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two planes hit the World Trade Center. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In New York. The World Trade Center.

COSTELLO: The memories from that day are still so painful, the trailer to "United 93" was pulled from a New York theater. Still, the movie is set to open nationwide next week.

(on camera): So we'll start with that question. Why now?

PAUL GREENGRASS, DIRECTOR, "UNITED 93": I think it's the right time. But I can't know for sure.

COSTELLO (voice-over): British writer/director made the movie with the help of 40 families who gave it their blessing.

GREENGRASS: They believed that far from it being too soon, it's high time. And I think they are the appropriate people to make that call.

COSTELLO: Some, like this Elsa Strong, whose sister Linda died that day, feel it's so important, she's even promoting it.

ELSA STRONG, SISTER OF UNITED 93 CASUALTY: It was very powerful. And I think, you know, we all felt the same sense of relief after seeing the movie that it had been done so well.

COSTELLO: "United 93" is not Hollywood slick. There are no big movie stars, no beautiful sets. It feels unbearably real at times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are not going to land this plane. They are not going to take us back to the airport.

COSTELLO: The action unfolds in real-time over 90 minutes, the dialogue is nearly all improvised. The actors spoke with the victims' families.

CHRISTIAN CLEMENSON, ACTOR, "UNITED 93": Paul Greengrass gave us everything we needed. He put us in a set that was an exact replica of this airplane. The plane moved the way the plane actually moves. The words that we chose to say were words we came up with ourselves. They just came up out of ourselves however we responded to the events happening around us.

COSTELLO (on camera): Don't you worry you got it wrong?

CLEMENSON: No. As long as we were there emotionally.

COSTELLO (voice-over): Real pilots, real flight attendants acted in the movie. In fact, the actual man who was in charge of the nation's air traffic control that day plays himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to shut down the entire country right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Listen, we're at war with someone.

COSTELLO: America lost a lot that day. But Greengrass feels the victims of flight 93 delivered an important victory.

GREENGRASS: They were the first people to inhabit our world, the post 9/11 world, and they were the first people to wrestle with the question that lies before us today, and has done every day since 9/11. Which is, what are we going to do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are we going to do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll figure that out. But get every weapon we can.

COSTELLO: Carol Costello, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: That is our report for now. I'm Hala Gorani.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy. The news continues here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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