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U.N. Security Council Members, Germany Hold Talks on Iran; Widespread Support for Nuclear Program Inside Iran; Berlusconi Resignation Paves Way for New Government in Italy; Immigrant Debate Rages in U.S.

Aired May 02, 2006 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Push for unity, trying to forge a consensus in response to defiance. Top diplomats meeting in Paris about Iran.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Arrivederci. Saying good-bye to an era in Italy. A colorful and controversial prime minister finally steps down.

CLANCY: And not quite yet. Peace still not at hand. The last- minute difficulties in ending Darfur's long nightmare.

It is 5:00 p.m. in Paris and in Rome right now.

I'm Jim Clancy.

GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani.

Welcome to our viewers throughout the world and the United States.

This is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

We start with this, the debate over Iran's nuclear ambitions making its way this day to Paris, France. The U.N. Security Council's five permanent members, plus Germany, are about to meet there to discuss last week's IAEA on report on Iran. The U.S. is expecting tough moves, demanding Iran's compliance. But will Russia and China go along? It's always the big question.

For more, we go to CNN's Jim Bittermann in Paris.

Are we expecting some sort of consensus today, Jim?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nicholas Burns this morning, the undersecretary of state for political affairs, outlined areas where he thinks there already is consensus. Essentially, consensus over the idea that it can no longer be -- the world will no longer tolerate business as usual from Iran, consensus over the idea that Iran is actually working on nuclear weapons, and consensus over the idea that, in fact, they should not have achieved -- should be denied the possibility of achieving nuclear weapons.

So, he believes, anyway, Nicholas Burns believes, that, in fact, there will be consensus on those items. The question, what to do about all those consensus items, is another -- another question indeed. And Russia and China are the big question behind that.

He said -- I think indicated pretty clearly that he believes that there would be the possibility of a Chapter 8 resolution under the United Nations Charter. That means a resolution that would require Iran's compliance as far as nuclear enrichment is concerned, and if compliance wasn't there, there could be other steps taken by the United Nations, such as sanctions and military action.

But it's one step further down the line. It does not actually say that there would be sanctions taken, although Mr. Burns looked down the line a little bit, down the road a little bit, and said -- and outlined a little bit for the journalist this morning the kind of possible sanctions they are talking about.

Despite all that, the undersecretary of state for political affairs said that, in fact, that diplomacy was not yet dead. Here's the way he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLAS BURNS, U.S. UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE: We have not lost hope in diplomacy. We believe that there is a diplomatic solution to this problem. But it depends. It depends on the -- on two things.

It depends on the willingness of the Iranian government to turn back from a full-scope program to go forward with enrichment, and then what we believe will be a fissile material production program, and eventually nuclear weapons. It depends on the Iranians to make sure they understand the strong will of the international community against them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: And by the way, speaking of the Iranians, the top Iranian here in town, in Paris, the charge d'affaire at the Iranian embassy, just happened to be holding a news conference today. He said what's happening across town at this meeting of the five permanent Security Council members, what's happening really doesn't bother Iran at all. It's already made its decisions as far as its nuclear program is concerned and will carry them out.

So, basically, throwing the ball right back into the court of the United Nations -- Hala.

GORANI: Jim, very briefly, the question is, will anything that happens at this meeting change the minds of Russia and China that hasn't happened at previous meetings?

BITTERMANN: Well, I think what they are trying to do is get Russia and China on board, at least as far as a Chapter 7 resolution is concerned. And that would be something that the foreign ministers of all five permanent members could take up a week from now when they meet in New York.

GORANI: Jim Bittermann, live in Paris -- Jim. CLANCY: Well, not that it adds to any optimism in the situation, but Iran reported Tuesday it found uranium ore at three new sites in the center of the country. The atomic energy chief also said Iran has enriched uranium to 4.8 percent.

Now, that's at the top end of the 3 to 5 percent range for fuel used in nuclear power plants. Not for nuclear weapons, for nuclear power plants. Uranium would have to be enriched to 80 percent or more to make nuclear weapons.

Inside Iran, there seems to be widespread support for going nuclear.

More on that story from Aneesh Raman, who is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): High above the capital, amid the mountains of northern Iran, a defiant few are clinging to the last days of winner. And here among Iran's young elite, who more than most lean towards the West, we find support for the country's nuclear program.

"When it first came up, I was not in favor of this it," says 22- year-old Farid (ph). But our fuel will one day finish and nuclear energy is very easy.

Farid, an English literature major, and his college friends Ashkan (ph) and Proshad (ph) are perhaps who the West would want fostering dissent in Iran. But on this issue...

"The U.S. cannot use this to create division between the nation and the government. Because the people are backing the government."

Twenty-one-year-old Proshad and the other two say it is their absolute right. "If it is only for energy," says 19-year-old, Ashkan, "which is what the media says, then we all support it. But if it's different than that, then it's up to god."

(on camera): It does seem in Tehran at least that across economic and generational lines, there is near uniform support for the country's nuclear program.

And at one of Teheran's major malls a warning from a 20-year-old Amir (ph) that if sanctions are imposed, "It will increase support 100 percent," he says. "After all this is our country. We must somehow defend it. If we don't stand behind our country, who do you expect to stand behind it?"

And as for war, back on the slopes, there's hope it will not come. Fear that it will might. "Nothing good can come of military war in Iran," says Ashkan. "What the U.S. did in Afghanistan and Iraq cannot be done here. Here it would be worse."

The nuclear issue, it seems, is for now a unifying one, but Iranians may soon have to decide soon if that unity can weather whatever comes next.

Aneesh Raman, CNN, in the Iranian capital, Tehran.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: The Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has officially resigned, clearing the way now for arch rival Romano Prodi to form a new government. After Prodi's coalition won last month's election by a thin margin, Mr. Berlusconi proposed a power-sharing administration. But he decided in the end to call it quits after Prodi's candidates won leadership positions in both houses of parliament.

CLANCY: Mr. Berlusconi was Italy's longest serving prime minister since the end of World War II. He refused to concede defeat for nearly a month. Weeks of political uncertainty now replaced by the opportunity to begin the formation of a new government in that country.

So, what comes next?

Rome Bureau Chief Alessio Vinci joins us now with details.

I think we've got to focus a little bit here on Silvio Berlusconi. Is this the end of the road in politics for him?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Not at all, Jim. You know, he may be out of office, but certainly he is not out of politics.

Mr. Berlusconi has been elected to the Italian parliament. He remains the leader of the largest political party in this country. And he will lead the opposition against Romano Prodi, an opposition that Mr. Berlusconi says will be tough and vigorous.

So, I do believe that Mr. Berlusconi will remain very active in politics. He knows that Mr. Prodi enjoys a thin majority in the upper house of parliament, and he will keep an eye on every move that Mr. Prodi does and make sure he takes advantage of any possible -- the possibility that Mr. Prodi may make a mistake, or something like that.

CLANCY: Now, for his part, Romano Prodi, when does he take over?

VINCI: It's up to the Italian president, Carlo Azeglio Ciampi. The problem is that his own mandate expires in two weeks. And he has indicated he would like the new president to appoint the new prime minister.

However, given the fact that it's been a political stalemate here for the last three weeks or so, there's a lot of political pressure on Mr. Ciampi to at least appoint Romano Prodi as the new prime minister and then wait for the parliament to elect a new president, in front of which then eventually Romano Prodi will be sworn in as Italy's next prime minister.

So, we're talking about a couple of weeks at the most. CLANCY: All right. Silvio Berlusconi's government, as we noted, stood longer than any other. It was not without its legal troubles. Are those troubles over?

VINCI: They are partially over. Over the years, Mr. Berlusconi has been one way or the other acquitted of grave charges, bribing judges, false accounting, fraud, and stuff like that.

However, he faces fresh charges in Milan. And a panel of judges there is set to decide whether or not he will face a new trial for having allegedly bribed a British lawyer, buying basically his favorable testimony in one of those trials in which he was acquitted.

Now, Mr. Berlusconi, as a member of parliament, of course, enjoys immunity. So, if, indeed, the judge has decided he has to stand trial, before he actually goes to trial he will have -- it will be up to the Italian president lift that immunity.

So, troubles, most of them, are behind him. But there are fresh charges he may face.

CLANCY: The most important question, how may Italy's role in international politics change?

VINCI: You know, I think there will be more change in style rather than substance. Mr. Berlusconi always liked to say he was a personal friend of President Bush, of President Putin, Prime Minister Tony Blair, and really worked on those personal relationships. I think Mr. Prodi will work more in sort of a business-like relationship with those leaders, and he will work more on keeping a focus perhaps more on Europe rather than -- than Washington.

At the same time, in several interviews, including one with myself, Mr. Prodi said that remaining a good ally of the United States is very important to keep peace around the world. And although the two countries disagree, for example, on the war in Iraq, take, for example, the question of the troops in Iraq there. Italy will withdraw those troops by the end of the year, whether or not Mr. Berlusconi or Mr. Prodi would have become prime minister here.

CLANCY: All right. Alessio Vinci, bureau chief in Rome.

Thank you very much, as always, Alessio.

GORANI: From Italy, we take you to neighboring France. Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin says he has no intention of resigning, and that's despite calls for him to step down amid a political scandal in France.

De Villepin is accused of ordering a secret investigation of his political rival, Interior Minister Nikolas Sarkozy. He's denied any role in that and says he's a victim of slander and shameful lies. This comes as support for the prime minister drops to near record lows after those mass protests over a jobs law a few weeks ago.

CLANCY: Top envoys from Washington and London are right now in Abuja, Nigeria -- Nigeria's capital -- pressing to win some progress at the troubled peace talks on Sudan's Darfur conflict. Negotiators for the African Union say they, too, are going to be redoubling their efforts, trying to achieve a settlement. Khartoum has already accepted a peace accord, but rebels want more concessions on autonomy for the Darfur region and on wealth and power sharing.

A new deadline for agreement is set to expire at midnight now. That could be extended. The U.S. secretary of state says action on the conflict is vital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The international community has got to respond. None of us want to see this situation in Darfur continue and/or worsen.

And I was just at NATO. I would say that I think there is a very favorable disposition within NATO to respond to the AU and U.N. in treaties when they come for what NATO might do to support. No one is talking about NATO forces, combat forces on the ground. Everybody understands that this will be largely an African Union with perhaps some other countries involved in the mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: How do you solve it? What are the sticking points from the rebels' side? Well, disarmament of the government-backed militias that have terrorized Darfur is one of their key demands, along with a detailed process of integrating rebel fighters into Sudan's security forces.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY (voice over): After three years of conflict, rebel groups in western Sudan's Darfur region appear far short of their goal to create a new power base within the country. They contend they represent black African Christians and others long oppressed by the government in Khartoum.

They launched their rebellion three years ago as the government was finalizing a peace and power sharing deal with similar groups in southern Sudan. But the deal being negotiated now falls far short of what the rebels sought.

They wanted nothing less than the creation of a state of Darfur made up of three existing Sudanese states that cover an area the size of France. But that's not in the deal.

They also want an official position in government, a vice presidency reserved for Darfur that would give them repolitical power, and a share in Sudan's newfound oil wealth. It's also missing from the deal.

The agreement does provide to disarm the notorious Janjaweed militia, blamed for tens of thousands of deaths and driving millions from their homes. But experts say it includes no credible mechanism to ensure that disarmament will be fully carried out.

Hanging in the balance are the lives of some two million black African Sudanese driven from their homes and into refugee camps set up by the international community. The rebels are being promised only that they will have a chance to negotiate their dreams of a real share of political power with the government once they have laid down their arms.

So far, the rebels have balked. The representative of one rebel group at the talks in Abuja, Nigeria, says, "We are not ready to sign until the Sudanese give concessions." But since the deal was already accepted by the government's side, the rebels negotiating strength appears to be evaporating.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: Now, officials in Khartoum say it is up to the West to pressure the rebels now to accept the bargain that they have already accepted. Sudanese President Omar el-Bashir describes Darfur as a national tragedy, but like many others in his government, he is placing the blame directly on the rebels who started the conflict -- Hala.

GORANI: A new report by UNICEF says the world is failing in the fight against childhood under-nutrition. The report says more than one quarter -- one quarter of all children in developing countries are underweight. Many of these are on the verge of starvation.

Poor nutrition is a global epidemic contributing to more than half of all childhood deaths. About 5.6 million children die each year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANN VENEMANN, UNICEF EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: They are staggering numbers, and very disturbing numbers, because we know that in so many of these countries like in the countries you mentioned, India, Bangladesh, the numbers of children who are undernourished, underweight, are as high as 47 and 48 percent. And this is just unacceptable.

It has largely to do with the status of women in these countries, the lack of education, the lack of understanding of nutrients, the lack of breast feeding early on in a child's life and continuing through the early months. There are many contributing factors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: UNICEF says nearly three quarters of the world's underweight children live in just 10 countries, and over half of these in just three countries. Ann Venemann mentioned them there: Bangladesh, India and Pakistan.

CLANCY: We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we are going to introduce you to one remarkable Iraqi soldier.

GORANI: His dream of a free Iraq cost him a greet deal. But he says it's well worth it.

CLANCY: And then a little bit later, Hala, we look at the miracle down under. Is it going to take another one to save a pair of miners trapped deep underground?

Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The war is not over. It is still going on. The war has just started now when the scum of the earth entered Iraq, or were brought to Iraq, like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and the militias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We thought that those who came to Iraq would do something good for the Iraqi people. But it is the opposite. The situation has gone from bad to worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world.

This is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

And those were the views of Iraqis on the street, three years after the U.S. invaded, three years after the end of major combat operations in Iraq were announced.

Still, more than 2,000 U.S. troops, tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed. Despite the gloomy view of some Iraqis, one Iraqi soldier says the freedom of his country is well worth it.

Brianna Keilar introduced us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): This Iraqi army officer wears a steel bracelet with six names carved into it. "One captain and five soldiers," he says. They are his fallen comrades. But this man, known only as Captain Furat (ph), his real name withheld to protect his family, lives with another constant reminder of the war in Iraq.

On Christmas Day, insurgents ambushed him, shooting him 12 times. One bullet struck his spine, leaving the man American soldiers nicknamed "Rambo" paralyzed from the waist down. But Furat (ph) says his injury is nothing compared to the big cause, freeing his country from the terrorists.

LT. COL. ROGER CLOUTIER, U.S. ARMY: He was our brother. I mean, we bled with him day in and day out for an entire year.

KEILAR: Lieutenant Colonel Roger Cloutier commanded the U.S. Army battalion attached to the Iraqi battalion Furat lead.

CLOUTIER: Wherever the enemy fire was the most intense, wherever it was most dangerous, you would find Captain Furat. The Iraqi army had to lead for operations in our area. So any time a building need to be cleared or there was a very dangerous area that had to -- we had to go into, you would find Captain Furat (ph) up front leading his soldiers never wavering.

KEILAR: After he was wounded, Furat (ph) was treated for two months in Iraq and then, at the urging of Cloutier and other officers, brought to the United States for more comprehensive care at Atlanta's renowned Shepherd Spinal Center at no charge. Now after two months there, Furat is learning to live with his disabilities. Though concerned about the growth of terrorism in Iraq, he refuses to let go of his dream that peace will come to his country sooner rather than later.

Brianna Keilar, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: U.S. Democratic senator and possibility presidential candidate Joe Biden is floating a different approach regarding Iraq. He co-authored an opinion piece in "The New York Times" with Leslie Gelb of the Council on Foreign Relations. They say the country, Iraq, should be divided into three, Kurdish, Shiite and Sunni regions, with a central government in Baghdad to handle common interests.

"Some will say moving toward strong regionalism would ignite sectarian cleansing. Others will argue that it would lead to partition. But (both) are already under way," they write. "As in Bosnia, a strong federal system is a viable means to prevent both perils in Iraq."

CLANCY: Well, a lot of ideas have been put forward. That one of the more controversial ones. We're asking for your thoughts on this.

GORANI: Our inbox question today is: Should Iraq be split up along ethnic and religious lines?

GORANI: Send us your thoughts to YWT@CNN.com. We're going to try to read some of your replies a little bit later here in the program. So, keep them brief, and include your name and where you are writing from.

GORANI: And ahead on YOUR WORLD TODAY after a short break, Bolivia the latest Latin American country to assert greater control -- greater national control over its energy.

CLANCY: We're going to explore how that action already affects nervous world oil markets.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN Center in Atlanta. More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes. First, though, let's check on stories making headlines here in the U.S.

Live pictures from Florida. This started as a junkyard fire. It's now turned into a tire fire in Opa Locka, Florida. No injuries reported so far. A lot of flames, a lot of black smoke.

Those tire fires difficult to put out. Rescue crews are on the way there.

Then let's go to Brooklyn, New York. This is a seven-alarm fire. They're saying this is the biggest fire in New York City since 9/11. A bunch of empty warehouses caught on fire around 5:30 this morning. About 350 firefighters there, 70 fire units and five fire boats in the East River trying to contain that fire.

Other news today.

A new hurricane season is on the horizon. Nowhere is a storm threat more ominous than New Orleans. The city is a haunting reminder of a hurricane's awesome might and government's inability to meet the challenge of nature.

Now New Orleans gets ready for the next big storm. Any minute, Mayor Ray Nagin will lay out the city's storm plan. We will join the mayor's news conference live when it gets under way.

A search for answers four months after the Sago Mine disaster. Public hearings now under way in West Virginia, and for the families of the 12 men who lost their lives, unanswered questions. Were the miners properly trained? How did the false news spread that all of the men were still alive?

Dozens of witnesses, including family members, are testifying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEGGY COHEN, VICTIM'S DAUGHTER: The one thing we must do is to make changes and make these mines safe for the other miners that continue to work. We must do something to prevent any more miners dying and their families having to endure this pain. This is awful pain. My heart just feels empty.

We hope that everything will be investigated so we can get our answers. Please, do not leave any stone unturned.

RUSSELL BENNETT, VICTIM'S SON: There's many things that went wrong. The rescue efforts, or should I say recovery efforts, the response time was unacceptable. The decisions made to wait, not to go in because CO in the returns, you know, that's unacceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: In a heartbreaking letter to victims' families last week, the sole survivor, Randal McCloy, gave some insight into what happened. Among other things, he said some of the crew's air packs had failed. Investigators are still looking into the disaster.

Drunken jocks, maybe. But not racist sex fiends. Those findings in a report on Duke University's lacrosse team.

The review concludes the team should be allowed to return to the field next year, but with strict monitoring. Duke's president scrubbed the lacrosse team's season last month. It followed allegations that an African-American dancer was raped by lacrosse players at a team party. The report did not consider the rape allegations. Instead, it focused on the team's behalf your during the past five years.

One sniper suspect testifying against another. That scenario could play out in a Maryland courtroom.

WTOP Radio reports that Lee Boyd Malvo is expected to tell his story and testify against the older sniper, John Allen Muhammad. Jury selection is under way right now in Muhammad's second trial. He and Malvo face six charges in Maryland for the 2003 killing spree.

Malvo's trial is scheduled for fall. WTOP reports that Malvo's testimony is part of a plea deal, but nothing has been finalized. Both sniper suspects have been convicted in Virginia.

Now, here's something that could curb your lunchtime appetite. A restaurant customer in Bloomington, Indiana, apparently found an unappetizing addition to his burger: a piece of human finger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Employees, maybe the manager, was cutting some product, and apparently sliced his finger, or at least part of it, and didn't realize it had gotten into the food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Managers at T.G.I. Friday's are apologizing. They say the worker accidentally cut himself and, in the rush to help, no one noticed he had lost part of the finger. A spokeswoman says they've been in contact with the customer that found the finger, and as far as they know, he hasn't retained a lawyer.

Actress Susan Sarandon is taking up the cause of the late Christopher Reeve and his wife Dana. She's pushing for passage of the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Act. She'll talk about it, live with Kyra Phillips on LIVE FROM at the top of the hour. And then I'll be back in a few minutes, when New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin lays out the city's plans for hurricane season.

Meanwhile, YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break. I'm Daryn Kagan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Hala Gorani.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy, and these are the stories that are making headlines around the world.

The United Nation Security Council's most influential members are about to consider their next step on Iran. A report last week by the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency said "Iran is ignoring pressure to halt its uranium enrichment." The U.S. representative in Paris for the talks says he thinks that the U.N. will soon pass a resolution ordering Iran to suspend its nuclear program.

GORANI: Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has officially resigned, clearing the way for Romani Prodi to form a new government. Mr. Berlusconi is stepping down after Prodi's candidates won positions in both houses of parliament. He'll stay in office, however, as a caretaker until a new government is in place.

CLANCY: Top envoys from Washington and London are in Abuja, Nigeria. Negotiators for the African Union say they're going to be boosting efforts at talks to achieve a settlement in Sudan's civil war in Darfur. Khartoum has accepted a peace accord, but rebels want more concessions on autonomy for the Darfur region, and on wealth and power sharing. A new deadline for agreement comes in a few hours.

Now, to the immigration debate in the United States, on the minds of many people across the U.S.. By one estimate, some one million people took to the streets on Monday, from Los Angeles to New York. Illegal immigrants and their supporters boycotted work and school, trying to underscore their own economic power and significance. Some say illegals take jobs Americans don't want at any wage.

Tom Foreman has more on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A successful growing season at Angelica Nurseries comes from 2,100 acres, four million plants and 130 Mexican workers.

BERNIE KOHL, ANGELICA NURSERIES: From my perspective, I don't need cheap labor. I need labor.

FOREMAN: And Bernie Kohl says they're all legal participants in the guest-worker program, and not much would get done if he counted on only Americans.

KOHL: Many of the jobs in agriculture, and in this nursery, are very tough, physically demanding jobs, working in very cold, wet environments, to very hot, dry environments, and working with very heavy plants. I mean, our -- our...

FOREMAN (on camera): And a lot of Americans don't want to do that?

KOHL: No.

FOREMAN (voice-over): These guest workers come for three to eight months each year to make a federally-mandated wage of $8.95 an hour, above the prevailing wage for low-skilled jobs here. They live in clean dorms, rent free, pay $9 a day for all the food they want, work until 6:00, and, to remain in the program, must go home by fall.

"In Mexico," they tell me, "we would make less in a week than we make here in a day."

KOHL: No, the -- the guys are pretty well-rounded.

FOREMAN: Won't Americans do this? By law, Bernie must advertise all these openings far and near before he can bring in guest workers. But year in and out, he insists virtually no Americans, not even the locals, will take the jobs.

(on camera): Do you think that Americans have grown lazy?

KOHL: I think we have become soft. So we tend to gravitate toward those jobs that are easier on us.

FOREMAN (voice-over): That talk infuriates immigration critics, who say places that rely on immigrant labor undercut wages for Americans, create indentured servants, and draw more legal and illegal immigrants.

Still, where manual labor is need, it seems American applicants are often hard to find.

(on camera): Whether Americans like it or not, the simple truth is, immigrants have become a cornerstone of the American economy. And changing anything about where they work or how they work or how they get here is going to take time, and it's going to be difficult.

(voice-over): The critics say we could make a start; if people like Bernie paid enough young Americans who have moved away to cities might move back, reinvigorating rural America and the working class. He doubts it.

KOHL: Farming is a very tough job. And many of them just want out of this type of environment. It's just what the younger generation seems to want to do.

FOREMAN: And many people who hire laborers insist he is right. When they go looking for people who can take on hard, manual jobs with enthusiasm and energy, the only players come from south of the border.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Kennedyville, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: There is another side, of course, to every issue, to every debate. Opponents of immigration rights say illegal immigrants help hold down wages and take jobs away from Americans. It's a divisive issue that splinters Americans across the board.

Joining me now me for a debate on this issue are U.S. Congressmen Steve King, a Republican from Iowa, and Joseph Crowley, a Democrat from New York. Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us.

Congressman King, I'm going to start with you. You called yesterday's action "biting the hand that feeds you." You called it an anti-gringo fest. You offended some with that.

REP. STEVE KING, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: Well, that language, "Nothing Gringo Day," came from the Hispanic Web pages and really out of Mexico. They boycotted American businesses and interest yesterday, as well as a march in the streets. So I do see it as biting the hand that feeds you.

The employers are the biggest apologists for illegal aliens, yet, they had their jobs walked away from. They're the ones that are reaching out to try to help. So I think it sends the wrong message, and in fact, it's creating a backlash across America. And people are understanding we need to enforce before we can have any kind of discussion on guest worker.

GORANI: Congressman Crowley, you actually joined the demonstrators in New York. Is it biting the hand that feeds to boycott U.S. businesses to make a point?

JOSEPH CROWLEY, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: I think -- actually, the opposite. I think it's demonstrating just how important these individuals are to our economy, what roles they play in feeding us. The people that work behind the counters in delivery of food who will make your food in your restaurants, who wash those dishes, who clean those tables. That's the point I think was made yesterday.

And quite frankly, I wasn't as offended about Congressman King's comments about "gringo day" as much as I was about the fact that he alluded that -- alluded to the fact that, in his opinion, that immigrants were responsible for the crime in this country, that they were responsible for the drug trade in this country, and quite frankly, Mexicans in particular are responsible for that. And I found that offensive...

KING: That's statistically accurate, I might add, Joel.

CROWLEY: Excuse me?

KING: Statistically accurate from government figures. Those are statistically accurate numbers I gave you.

CROWLEY: That the Mexican people are responsible for the drug trade in the United States. I doubt that very much.

The fact is, we are the biggest consumers of illicit drugs in the world. It's the fact that Americans are using those drugs, not that Mexican people themselves are responsible, and that immigrants are responsible for the drug trade.

KING: I said that $300 billion of illegal drugs come across the southern border every year. Eighty percent of our methamphetamines come across the southern border. And the statistics of how many Americans die at then hands of illegals that are in this country.

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan. We're going to break in and go live to New Orleans. Here is Mayor Ray Nagin, presenting his plan for New Orleans if a hurricane should hit the city this season. Let's listen in.

MYR, RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: All right, ladies and gentlemen, as some people gather, we're going to get them all in. Since you're alive, we're going to get -- we're going to keep going with this press conference.

Ladies and gentlemen, we're here to make some very important announcements. As most of you know, hurricane season starts on June 1st. We're here to announce three major aspects of how we're going to deal with this coming hurricane season.

We're, first of all, announcing our 2006 emergency preparedness plan. It is a strong plan to protect the lives and property of New Orleaneans during hurricanes and other disasters. Number two, we're also launching a make-a-plan campaign. It's a campaign to educate our citizens on measures and precautions to take to prepare for potential disasters. We have the Red Cross who's here with us. They're going to be working with us, or have been working with us on this.

And finally, and we are preparing or proclaiming the month of May as the city's first ever Hurricane Preparedness Month. And we will have lots of communications, PSAs, print media, as well as a federal exercise that we will be engaging in with the Department of Homeland Security for this May 23rd and 24th.

The body of what we are going to discuss today is our comprehensive plan to position this community to be better prepared for the hurricanes. Our planning efforts have been nonstop. We are constantly gathering data, making emergency plans and working very closely with everyone from Secretary Chertoff to everyone in the state. This is a coordinated effort. We have the federal and the state officials as our committed partners, and they have been working with us diligently.

On the specifics of the plan, and we'll get into a lot more detail than probably you would like, but on the evacuation, a mandatory evacuation will be called in the future as we know the threats that are coming. We have direct lines into the Hurricane Center, as well as coordination with the state and federal levels to make sure that we give our citizens enough time to reach safety.

Second part of the plan, as I've stated before, there will be no shelter of last resort in the event of a major hurricane that's coming our way.

Thirdly, special needs citizens and the elderly are a priority, as they always have been, and will be evacuated via buses and trains, which Terry will get into.

The Convention Center will be used only -- only as a staging point for bus evacuations, both prevent and post-event. Terry will get into that a little bit later. Amtrak trains will also be used for evacuation purposes, which we're really excited about. And I want to give a special thanks to Secretary Chertoff for his intervention in moving that forward. This plan calls for a continued coordination of the successful contraflow plan that we have used in the past. So we will continue to coordinate with our neighbors and with the state. And our big movement for a major event is still 30 hours before expected landfall.

This plan is updated and includes an evacuation plan for pets. So everyone who has pets and their owners, we will do everything in our power to make sure that you can evacuate your pets safely, and they can go with you in the event of an evacuation. The only caveat is, you will have to have a cage, a cage for your pets to be transported in. So as long as you have something to put them in, they can come with you.

On the public safety side, the police department is coordinating with the federal government, with state officials, to have a very coordinated grid-like plan to make sure that we have comprehensive coverage, and that we make sure that looting is a nonissue in the future.

On the communication side, we have improved all of our communication networks to make sure that we have redundant fiberoptics coming in, that we have a wireless technology that Greg will touch on in a minute, and we have other federal systems just in case. We are not going with an A and a B plan on communication, but we are probably going down as deep as E and F as it relates to the amount of options we will have as it relates to communications.

I've already mentioned that we have direct lines into Mr. Max Mayfield, head of the Hurricane center, so we're going to make sure that we rely upon his 30-something years of expertise, and then we have the strong regional, state and local support.

I've already mentioned throughout the month of May, we want the citizens to make their own plan, sort of like a fire-prevention plan, which Councilman Clarkson mentioned as we were coming in here. We want everybody to take on their own responsibilities for having their own hurricane-evacuation plan. That will help us as we move forward to make sure that everyone knows and understands exactly what they need to do.

And in conclusion, as far as my comments, we have worked very hard, and I want to thank Colonel Ebert and everybody else who has been working on this very diligently, as well as everyone else you see here. To the general community, to everyone who has participated. We have an incredible experience that we've gathered as it relates to hurricane evacuation and preparedness and crisis management. And this team is ready to move forward this June 1st to make sure that we have a successful season.

And before I turn it over, let me just make one other comment. Yesterday, I had an update from the Corps of Engineers on exactly where the levees are. And I want to make sure the public understands this, because this is fundamental of our preparedness. The levee systems are being rebuilt to better, higher, safer standards than we've ever had in the history of this city. Those levees will be the ones that were damaged as high as 20 feet high. The Corps of Engineers right now is almost 80 percent complete with the levee systems that they needed to rebuild. They are using high-grade clay. They are driving steel pylons as deep as 60 to 80 feet in some areas, and they have concrete to support that also. These levees are going to be very, very secure, and we should be positioned better, and not have the catastrophic flooding that we've had in the past.

With that, I'll turn it over to Colonel Terry Ebert, who heads up these efforts for us, to give you further details on exactly what we're talking about -- Colonel.

TERRY EBERT, DIR. OF HOMELAND SECURITY FOR NEW ORLEANS: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I think everybody realizes that we've got challenges in the city of New Orleans that face -- that we face that no other city in America faces. We are the only major city in America that does not do sheltering in place. Key West does, but it's hardly an urban area. So we were faced with these challenges last year. We've taken a look at what occurred over the past nine months, what we could do better, and the mayor has tasked my office, my shop to go back and look at this, take the lessons learned, and apply them to our plan and planning for this year.

After Christmas, we put together a team that's been working on this since the first of January. It includes all of my departments: police, fire, EMS, and Homeland Security. It includes the local, regional, and state, and federal partners.

This is an ongoing effort, and one which never stops as we continue to try and improve what we know is critical to every citizen in the city of New Orleans. We had hundreds of issues, but we wanted to try and focus our efforts into a couple of areas, because it got very complex, so we devised three basic goals that we wanted to drive all of our planning into.

And goal number one is to provide greater support for those people who have special needs in our city. They don't have transportation out. We know that that's a unique problem, again, for our city, but that was goal number one. It participates and brings together all the efforts that we're talking about, our concentrating in these particular areas. How do we get everybody out of the city of New Orleans.

Goal number two is to create an atmosphere in our city where it makes more sense for everybody to leave rather than stay. That's much harder done than said, so all of the efforts we have gone through have, again, tried to support, convincing each and every citizen in this city that it's the smart and best thing to do when we call a mandatory evacuation, when the governor and the mayor have made that decision, then we want people to move. But, we've got to create an atmosphere that takes care of everybody in our city.

Goal number three deals with security, and it relates to the second one. If, in fact, we have the need and want everybody to evacuate, we have to create that atmosphere that makes sense and one of the important things is, in fact, security. Every citizen should know when they leave the city that their property and their belongings and their businesses will be taken care of by a joint effort led by the New Orleans Police Department.

KAGAN: We've been listening into a news conference from New Orleans as Mayor Ray Nagin and other officials announce what their plans are with the upcoming hurricane season, on how to better protect the citizens of New Orleans.

A three-part plan, a better plan of trying to get everybody out of New Orleans in case a major hurricane hits there again, encouraging individuals to make their own plan for how to get out, and a month- long campaign of hurricane preparedness.

Some of the other points there, no shelter of last resort. They don't want another situation with everyone gathering -- so many people gathering in places like the Superdome and Convention Center. Those sites will only be used to gather to be evacuated from the city.

We're going to have more news in just a moment. I'm back after this.

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KAGAN: And we continue talk about hurricanes. Big concern even if you are inland. Our Bonnie Schneider has more on that -- Bonnie.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Daryn, right now we are 30 days away from the start of hurricane season. And every day up until the start of hurricane season here on CNN, we are offering some very important information known as "Hurricane 101."

Today, we're going to talk about storm surge, which is a major factor, especially for coastal areas, when a hurricane approaches or comes onshore. And really what it is, it's a piling of water, as the storm gets closer and closer to land.

As we've seen from pictures here from last year's hurricane season -- this is pictures from Dennis -- as the storm can approach, we could see, in an intense storm, up to 18 feet of water that comes on shore. And what's interesting to note is that most deaths from hurricanes actually occur due to storm surge, because of the flooding that it can create.

And it does, of course, play a major role in whether or not deciding to evacuate a coastal area. As you can see, these are pictures of the St. Marks, Florida area, and we saw storm surge from Hurricane Dennis inundate the town because, really, as it came onshore, especially in the bay areas, what happens is, it comes in almost as a funnel, coming to a point at the tip of the bay inlet, and that's why we see such incredible storm surge. We saw that last year with St. Marks and hopefully we won't see it again.

But remember to be sure to stay with CNN throughout this hurricane season. We're your hurricane headquarter -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Bonnie Schneider, thank you for that.

Coming up in just a few minutes on "LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips, actress Susan Sarandon talks about taking up a cause that was so near and dear to the late actor Christopher Reeve and his late wife Dana. That's coming up in just a few minutes. That's going to do it for me. I'm Daryn Kagan. I'll see you tomorrow.

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