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The Situation Room

Jury Recommends Moussaoui Serve Live in Prison

Aired May 03, 2006 - 16:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LISA DOLAN, HUSBAND KILLED AT PENTAGON: And I would like to turn it over to Rosemary Dillard.
ROSEMARY DILLARD, WIFE OF SEPTEMBER 11 VICTIM: It has been a long journey.

And, as Lisa was thanking everybody, we thank you for getting the news out to America. But you need to know -- you need -- OK. OK.

But what you need to know is, you guys have had a hard job, listening to us every day. And you have reported us pretty accurately. And I thank you for that.

What the jury came up with today and his sentencing is not going to be what all the families want. But what it shows the world is that we're not going to stand for terrorists to come to our country and to be let loose. He will be in confinement. He will not be released. And we can all take pleasure or gratitude in that.

He's a bad man. But we have a fair society here. And I think all of the families will agree that the judge, the jury, we showed the world what we will do to terrorists, and that we will treat them with respect, no matter how much they disrespect us. And that means an awful lot. That that makes us the bigger and the better person, and the better society.

We're not all safe. All the things that they were going to put in place since 9/11 have not happened. So we, as voters, as Americans, we've got to get on our job now to make sure that things change and that maybe we'll learn somewhere from him while he is incarcerated. Who knows?

We never did figure out -- I never figured out whether he was in his right mind or not, or whether he was playing a game. But I do know that I feel like America is a fair place to live, and I do know that we can be protected. And it's going to take America's help.

It's going to take your help. And we've got to get our Congress people, our president, everybody's got to be involved. And we've got to straighten up and make sure our borders are protected and that we are protected so that you don't have to come out your door and be afraid to walk across the street, be afraid to get on an airplane, be afraid to get on a train, be afraid to get on a bus.

We've got a lot to work to do. And we just hope that you are part of that job.

Thank you.

CARIE LEMACK, 9/11 FAMILY MEMBER: Good afternoon. My name is Carie Lemack. I'm from Boston. And I was just here in town today for business -- my name is Carie Lemack. It's C-A-R-I-E L-E-M-A-C-K.

My mother, Judy Larocque, was a passenger on American Airlines Flight 11. And we're from Boston, and this is my first time at the Alexandria courthouse today. And I have to say, I am glad to see this will be the last day that Mr. Moussaoui is in the headlines.

He's going to be in jail for the rest of his life, which is exactly what this man deserves. He's an al Qaeda wannabe. And he does not deserve any credit for 9/11, because he was not part of that. And I am so glad the jury recognized that and realized that he just wanted to kill Americans, but he wasn't even skilled enough to be able to do that.

This country needs to understand the real risks that we are facing. We can't even get our Congress people and our president to lock up nuclear material, even though terrorists, including Osama bin Laden, have said he wants to kill four million Americans. This country can't screen all of the cargo on the planes that we fly on, that I flew on here today to be here.

We have to look at the real problems in this country. If we're going to blame Zacarias Moussaoui, he's not the real problem. The real problem are the terrorists who do want to kill us, like Osama bin Laden, who is still not captured.

So, I'm glad the jury looked at all the evidence and recognized that this man was an al Qaeda wannabe who could never have put together the 9/11 attacks, the horrific attacks that killed so many people. I'm just glad to be an American today, because we finally have felt like justice has been done.

There were a lot of family members who wanted to see Zacarias Moussaoui die. But there are a lot of family members who did not. And the jury looked at the evidence and made their decisions. And I'm proud of them today, and I know my mom would be proud of them, too.

She would prefer to see someone like this spend their time in jail and have to think about what he's made the decisions in his life and what he's chosen, because he was not capable of pulling off these horrific attacks. He's a wannabe who deserves to rot in jail, and I'm just glad that he got what he deserves today.

So, thank you, and thank you to the jurors who worked so hard and to the attorneys who did the best they could with such a difficult client in such a difficult case for the prosecutors. But I think now the most important thing to understand is to know what happened on 9/11. And unfortunately, not all the evidence is out there.

The Transportation Security Administration is still keeping some of the aviation evidence secret. They won't let us know what happened on those planes. And we need to make sure that they finally let the truth be told so we know what happened, so that we can make sure it doesn't happen again.

Thank you.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to listen to Abraham Scott next. He's speaking at the microphone. His wife was killed on 9/11 at the Pentagon.

Let's listen in.

ABRAHAM SCOTT, 9/11 FAMILY MEMBER: ... in the Pentagon on 9/11. I know you expect me to come up here and say that I disagree with the verdict of the jurors, because I believe in the death penalty, but I'm not. I totally and wholeheartedly agree with what -- the decision of the jurors today.

We don't know what's in -- what transpired that day, or prior to 9/11, involving Moussaoui. Only Moussaoui knows and the lord knows. I do know that the jury made the right decision. Justice has been served today, in my opinion, for those individuals, those beautiful individuals, those 2,900-plus victims that were murdered on September 11th, as well as those that were directly and indirectly affected mentally and physically that morning on September 11th.

All I would like to say is that I would like to see others who were involved in the perpetration -- the perpetrator -- the perpetration on that incident of 9/11 be brought to justice. I would like to see those who are being held in jail in other countries be brought to justice here in the United States, as well as I'm hoping and praying that bin Laden and his right hand -- right hand individual will be brought to justice.

I would just like to thank each and every one of you for, as Rosemary -- Ms. Dillard stated -- as Ms. Dillard stated, to bring the news to the forefront during this past four years of Moussaoui's -- the Moussaoui trial.

I'm moving on now. This will bring closure to me. I was getting ready -- I'm preparing to go to Colorado to do a couple of scholarships on behalf of my wife's foundation. And I did not want this to be left open while I was gone.

I'm glad that the jury brought forth a decision today. I can move on and spend some time with my wife's family, as well as with my daughters, in terms of -- in terms of carrying forth their lives and encouraging them to move forward in their lives.

I'm not -- I'm sort of speechless for words now, because as I was coming here, my heart was in -- my heart was -- was in my throat. I had to refrain myself from getting involved in an accident. Now that this is over, I thank god that each and every one of us can move forward -- move forward in our lives.

Are there any questions?

QUESTION: What do you say -- what do you say to Janice (ph) now? SCOTT: I would have said, "Baby, at least one perpetrator has been brought to justice. And I hope that you're looking down, and you're looking down upon us, and are very pleased -- and is very pleased with what has transpired today."

Any other questions?

QUESTION: Abe, why...

BLITZER: All right. We are going to leave it there. Abraham Scott, his wife, Janice, was killed on 9/11 at the Pentagon. And we heard some emotion clearly coming through from him, from Carie Lemack, others who are speaking out now.

The breaking news we've been following, Zacarias Moussaoui said he had hoped to die as a martyr. Instead, though, a jury has now decided he should spend the rest of his life at a maximum security U.S. prison. Only moments ago, as you saw it here in THE SITUATION ROOM, the jury in the trial of the admitted al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, sparing him the death penalty.

Our senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, is standing by. Let's get some more, though, from our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena. She was inside the courthouse.

And Kelli, as you reported, when you emerged from there, he uttered some very, very stark words, Moussaoui, as he left the courtroom. I believe you said, "America" -- you quoted him as saying, "America, you lost." And he then clapped his hands.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. He said, "America, you lost." "Raskin, Novak, you lost" -- referring to two of the prosecutors -- and then he said, "I won" and clapped his hands.

You know, we've heard a lot about this jury that has spent months of their lives, you know, hearing evidence and deliberating. Interesting to point out, that jury remains anonymous, Wolf. We do not know their names. We don't know much about them. They were only identified by a number.

The judge told them that it was their right to speak out about this if they chose. But if they did not, that they didn't have to. And if they felt that that right was being impinged upon in any way, that they should let the court know, and that their protection would be guaranteed.

Looking over the verdict form, Wolf, very interesting. The only thing that the jury checked "no" to in terms of the non-statutory aggravating factors is that the actions of Zacarias Moussaoui resulted in the deaths of approximately 3,000 people.

That is a very different question than you got in the first phase of this trial, where the jurors were asked if they felt that Moussaoui had -- could be held responsible for at least one death on September 11th. Well, now there's a huge leap. It's approximately 3,000 people, and that is where the jury seems to have had an issue with the government and said no.

They also -- nine of the jurors also chose as mitigating factors the fact that Moussaoui had a very tough childhood, that he was in and out of orphanages, that he grew up very poor, that he was subject to racism. So, it seems that his background, his family background, did play a part, at least in those deliberations -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I want to play, Kelli, the statement as it was read live here in THE SITUATION ROOM on CNN to our viewers in the United States and around the world from the court public information officer, Edward Adams, as he read the decision of these jurors.

Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARD ADAMS, COURT PUBLIC INFO. OFFICER: In the case of the United States versus Zacarias Moussaoui, as to count one, conspiracy to commit acts of terrorism, transcending national boundaries, and count three, conspiracy to destroy aircraft, and count four, conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction, the jury has found the defendant should be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of release.

The jury verdict form does not indicate the number of jurors who voted for a sentence of life or the number of jurors, if any, who voted for a sentence of death. All that the jury was required to report was that they were not unanimous in favor of a sentence of death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And the president of the United States is now reacting to this decision, life in prison without the possibility of parole, rather than the death sentence for Zacarias Moussaoui.

Our White House correspondent, Ed Henry, is joining us.

Ed, what is the president saying?

ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's a rather long statement. I'll try to -- after laying out what has happened here, the president says, "Our thoughts today are with the families who lost loved ones on September 11, 2001. Our nation continues to grieve for the men, women and children who suffered and died that day. We are still deeply touched by the memory of rescuers who gave all, the passengers that ran a hijacked plane into the ground to prevent an even greater loss of life, and the frightened souls who comforted one another during their final moments on earth."

"The end of this trial represents the end of this case, but not an end to the fight against terror. The enemy that struck our shores on September 11th is still active and remains determined to kill Americans."

"We will stay on the offensive against the terrorists. We will end their ability to plot and plan. We will deny them safe haven and the ability to gain weapons of mass murder."

"In these four and a half years with good allies at our side, the United States has killed or captured many terrorists, shut down training camps, broken up terror cells in our own country, and removed regimes that sponsored terror. We have many dedicated men and women fully engaged in this fight in the military, intelligence, and homeland security, law enforcement personnel, and federal investigators and prosecutors who gather the evidence, make the case and ensure that justice is done. They are doing superb work every day to remove this danger and to protect our country.

The president adds, "We have had many victories. Yet, there is much left to do. And I will not relent in this struggle for the freedom and security of the American people. And we can be confident our cause is right, the outcome is certain, justice will be served."

"Evil will not have the final say. This great nation will prevail."

That's the statement from the president of the United States -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Ed. Stand by.

Paul McNulty, the deputy attorney general, is reacting to this verdict.

PAUL MCNULTY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: At al Qaeda's terrorist training camps, Zacarias Moussaoui fermented his hatred of America. This hatred carried him from the remote regions of Afghanistan to a flight training school in the United States.

It ultimately led him to lie to FBI agents weeks before the September 11th attacks. He lied about why he was in the United States and his intentions to fly a plane into the White House. This lie was a critical moment in the conspiracy, and it allowed his fellow terrorists to carry out their brutal plans.

I extend my deepest thanks to all the victims for their patience and their perseverance. At times, this has been a maddening experience. The testimony of the defendant was deeply offensive. But through it all, the victims have triumphed over the terrorist's rants with their strength, their courage and their character.

We have been inspired by their bravery and blessed by their support. These proceedings have given voice to the victims.

We all were given an opportunity to share in their pain and to understand a little better at what they experienced. And for that, we are all enriched.

This case has taken four and a half years to prosecute. Moussaoui was indicted shortly after I became U.S. attorney here in the eastern district of Virginia in 2001. It has been an unprecedented law enforcement effort in many respects. First, this case has involved the most extensive victim outreach effort in the history of federal prosecutions. Nearly 2,000 victims have been personally interviewed by dozens of prosecutors, paralegals and agents. More than 5,000 victims receive regular updates on the case. And over the past two months, these proceedings have been viewed by hundreds around the country on closed-circuit television.

I want to thank the victim witness coordinators, especially Karen Spinx (ph), for all of their compassion and their unparalleled service.

Second, this prosecution has been an extraordinary collaboration between two United States attorneys offices and the criminal division of the Department of Justice.

I want to thank Alice Fisher, the assistant attorney general for the criminal decision; Chuck Rosenberg, the United States attorney for the eastern district of Virginia who's standing behind me now; and Michael Garcia, the United States attorney for the southern district of New York.

These offices have worked as one team for more than four years. And a number of professionals have made tremendous personal sacrifices in devotion to this effort.

To all the legal assistants, paralegals, attorneys, FBI agents and law enforcement -- law enforcement officials who have served on this team, thank you for your skill and devotion.

I especially want to thank John Van Lockenhausen (ph) and Gerard Francisco (ph) for their devotion over the past four and a half years.

I want to especially thank the trial team, Rob Spencer, David Raskin and Dave Novak, for their exemplary performance and tireless efforts over the past several years.

I also want to thank judge Ken Keris (ph), who was the first New York prosecutor on this team before he was appointed as a federal district court judge...

BLITZER: All right. We're going to break away from the statement from Paul McNulty, the deputy attorney general.

He's surrounded by other prosecutors, representatives from the Justice Department who worked this case, as he points out, for four and a half, almost five years.

Zacarias Moussaoui, sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, rather than getting the death sentence, as the prosecution had sought.

Jeff Toobin is our senior legal analyst watching all of this.

You used to be a U.S. federal prosecutor. They really wanted the death sentence for this guy. They didn't get it. How much of a disappointment does it have to be for them, Jeff? JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it's unusual -- it's an unusual circumstance, because when I was a prosecutor, I was taught that, you know, winning and losing is about guilt or -- a conviction or no conviction. You won if you got a conviction, and the sentence was really sort of in the hands of the jury and out of your hands, and you didn't really worry about that that much.

This is different. The entire federal government mobilized, as Paul McNulty was saying. This was an enormous federal prosecution effort geared towards getting a sentence of death.

That's all that was on the table here. And the Justice Department invested millions of dollars, thousands of people, and they lost.

And I think -- it certainly wasn't from lack of effort. I think one question people are going to raise is whether this case was simply overcharged, whether Moussaoui, which at least some jurors -- who some jurors viewed as a minor player, was assigned so much more possibility than he really had that the case should not have been structured this way.

But he was the only person available, apparently. And they tried to get a death sentence. They devoted enormous time, money, effort, and they didn't get it. So, it's certainly a loss for the Department of Justice.

BLITZER: Jeff, normally, after a trial like this we wind up eventually hearing from the jurors what was going through their minds, what they felt, how the votes were going down. In this case, the jurors are all anonymous for obvious reasons. They are concerned, potentially, I assume, for terrorist reprisals against them.

Are they going to remain anonymous? Is that the deal that was struck?

TOOBIN: I would be shocked, Wolf, if we don't hear from these jurors sooner, rather than later. There are anonymous juries all the time, even in big terrorism cases, in Mafia cases. In the Oklahoma City bombing cases you had anonymous jurors there, but eventually, and usually soon, they wind up coming forward.

So, I expect we will hear very soon from at least some jurors, and they will take us what the breakdowns on these votes were, because just from hearing the votes on the -- on the aggravating and mitigating factors, that doesn't really tell you for sure what the ultimate vote on the death sentence was. But I suspect they will come forward soon.

BLITZER: Jeff, thanks. Stand by.

Jack Cafferty has been watching all of this. He's also been getting reaction from our viewers.

I suppose you're getting a lot of e-mail, Jack. Give us a sampling of what our viewers think.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, back an hour or so ago, while we were still waiting for the verdict, we asked the question what penalty does Moussaoui deserve when the outcome of this was still unknown, whether he would get life or death.

And Salvatore wrote this: "I just heard your ideas on what to do with Moussaoui. Where's your imagination? You want to give him a suitable punishment? How about life in prison without parole in an Israeli prison?"

Liz wrote in Massachusetts, "After seeing the film 'United 93,' I...

BLITZER: Hey, Jack -- hold on one second, Jack. I want to go back live. One of the defense attorneys is speaking. Let's listen in briefly.

EDWARD MACMAHON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: ... impartial jurors to render this verdict. And we respect the jury's verdict.

We also want to express our deepest sympathies and condolences to all the victims of September 11.

In this trial, we saw the bravery and humanity of our fellow citizens faced with unthinkable danger. And we also saw that the devastation caused by those attacks remains very real and enduring.

And in this case, victims were allowed to come into court and testify regardless of their desire for a particular outcome. The testimony of the family members was intensely personal, and it also displayed the deep divisions that mark the issue of capital punishment in our country.

This is the only case to our knowledge where victims have testified as witnesses called by the defense. This testimony demonstrated resilience in the possibility of renewal.

As we have said many times, none of these witnesses testified for Moussaoui. They all spoke their minds as citizens of a free nation, (INAUDIBLE) by acts of terror. And in this trial, we learned a lot about how our government acted before September 11th.

And it is our hope that the government does not use the verdict in this case as an excuse for its performance before September 11th. That would be the worst possible outcome of this trial.

And finally, on behalf of everyone, my colleagues here, we want to say that we've been honored to participate in this trial as counsel. The court charged us with defending Mr. Moussaoui's constitutional rights, and we have done so to the best of our abilities. Vigorous representation of those accused of crimes is a hallmark of our judicial system, and we are pound to have done our part.

And that's the statement, ladies and gentlemen. If you have any questions...

QUESTION: How do you parse it? Some of the responses to the mitigators seemed illogical at times. If you can have, for example, three people finding that he was not a major player on 9/11, but then, you know, zero findings on another comparable -- I mean, does it look like there were compromises going on?

GERALD ZERKIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I tell you, I think that you'll find that most -- I think you'll find most capital defense attorneys, where they have specific mitigator findings, will tell you that there are always inconsistencies. I mean, there is nothing unusual about that. And it's impossible to figure out exactly what people were thinking.

Now, remember, jurors might have found that something was true but found that it was not mitigated. So, you know, you have to factor that in, as well.

So, those inconsistencies are always going to be found. What I think it demonstrates is clearly the first phase of the trial, although they determined that he was eligible, plainly impacted the result, because, you know, just from listening to it, I haven't studied it carefully, but by listening to the result it's obvious that they thought that his knowledge of 9/11, his role in 9/11, was -- was not very great, and that played a significant role in the result that we had.

QUESTION: Mr. MacMahon, was this the most difficult defendant that you've ever represented, and were you -- I mean, did you lose hope at some point in the trial? Or does this verdict surprise you?

MACMAHON: Oh, you know, we charged this decision to the jury, and juries surprise all trial lawyers in all cases. The answer to your first question, yes, Moussaoui is the most difficult client I've ever had in my life.

QUESTION: What did you think when he took the stand and basically testified for the prosecution?

MACMAHON: I actually -- I don't even know what to say about that.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

MACMAHON: I'll let Gerry answer that question. The question was, "Is he crazy or sane?"

ZERKIN: You know, my -- look, my personal opinion about that is absolutely irrelevant. I mean, you heard the testimony of the various doctors. The jury considered it and found that we had not shown by a preponderance of the evidence that he was -- suffered from a psychotic disorder.

And, you know, what our opinion on that is, is irrelevant. If people are interested in it, they can look at the transcript, look at the testimony, and make their own decision. But I don't see why our particular opinion is particularly noteworthy.

QUESTION: What did he say to you after the verdict?

ZERKIN: He didn't say anything to us after the verdict.

QUESTION: What did you mean, Mr. MacMahon, by you hope that the government doesn't use this as an excuse for its actions prior to 9/11? I don't quite understand.

MACMAHON: Well, I heard an FBI agent on television say that now that -- now that they know if Moussaoui had just talked that 9/11 wouldn't have happened, and I just hope that's not repeated by another FBI agent as an excuse for how they actually performed before September 11th.

QUESTION: As best as you all can tell, there -- are there any more post-trial proceedings that can occur? We're done?

ZERKIN: I would imagine -- well, the logic -- the logic is that we are done. To the extent that logic rules the day.

I don't think that there's anything that we would -- would imagine filing. I mean, the only thing you can really do now from the defense standpoint would be to attack the guilty plea, I suspect. And I'm not sure that that's likely to be forthcoming from this team, at least.

QUESTION: The judge said that the government wins when justice is served. Did you see this as a defeat for the government or a win for all of us?

ZERKIN: I think the judge is absolutely right. I mean, the government -- the government's job is supposed to see that justice is done. The Supreme Court decided a case called Verger (ph) versus the United States years ago that the -- that the duty of prosecutors is to do just that, to see that justice is done. And sometimes that is forgotten, but I think the judge is correct in saying that when that happens, then the government which represents all of us is the winner.

QUESTION: Is it possible from Moussaoui, as his own lawyer, to appeal the decision, and what will you do if he does?

ZERKIN: I didn't understand all of it.

QUESTION: Is it possible from Moussaoui, as his own lawyer, to appeal the decision and what will you do if he decides to do it?

MACMAHON: I can handle that, Jerry. This -- we are -- Moussaoui can do anything he wants as his own lawyer. Our appointments to represent him will terminate once he's sentenced in a short period after that, so that's actually not a concern of ours as to what happens from there, so...

BLITZER: All right, we're going to break away from this news conference, Ed MacMahon -- Edward MacMahon, one of the defense attorneys, one of the court-appointed defense attorneys for Zacarias Moussaoui speaking out with his colleagues, the aftermath of this verdict by the jurors that he will spend the rest of his life in prison, Zacarias Moussaoui, rather than getting the death sentence. I interrupted Jack Cafferty, who was getting reaction from viewers when we went to that news conference outside the courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia.

But Jack, go ahead and pick up what your question was and what the viewers think.

CAFFERTY: The question we'd asked the viewers before we learned the verdict was what the -- penalty was appropriate -- what did they think he deserved?

Liz wrote in Massachusetts, "After seeing the movie "United 93," I can't think of a better use of Americans' tax dollars than to see Moussaoui suffer in prison for the remaining days of his life. I'd rather see 72 prisoners have their way with him then 72 virgins. A death penalty will only give this sad waste of a human being exactly what he's looking for."

Gary wrote from Manhattan, like this one, "Moussaoui should be thrown into Yankee stadium and pummeled by New York City police and fire fighters. Whatever is left should be ground into hummus, mixed with pork and served to the detainees at Gitmo Jackie Mason and Barbara Streisand while singing the Israeli national anthem."

That's cold, Gary.

Dave wrote, "The death penalty's what Moussaoui wants and what will best serve the terrorists. There's only one appropriate punishment: Life in prison without parole."

And J.W. in Atlanta, "Sentence this creep to live with my ex-wife for 20 years. He'll beg for the gallows by the end of the first month" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Some reaction from our viewers, Jack, thanks for that. I want to bring back former 9/11 Commissioner Tim Roemer, who's been watching all of this, former U.S. Congressman.

You've had a chance to digest what we've heard, the reaction from family members, the reaction from the deputy attorney general, Paul McNulty, the reaction from some of the court-appointed defense attorneys, and that horrible statement that the -- that Zacarias Moussaoui made upon leaving the courthouse, "America, you lost. I won" and then he clapped his hands. What do you think -- Tim.

TIM ROEMER, FMR. 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Wolf, I think America won today. The government won, the American people won, there may be disagreements with the sentence, but what ultimately happened was our justice system worked.

He was defended by our attorneys, our 9/11 families who were so brutally taken -- sons and daughters taken away from them, had their day in court, and we continue to learn from Carrie Lemack, who spoke a little bit earlier on your show, who lost her mom; Abe Scott who lost his wife, the justice was served today.

So, what we have to do, I think, now is to move now to make sure that we protect this country, Wolf. We know on the 9/11 Commission in a bipartisan way that the FBI, who was on trial in some ways, in this Moussaoui case, still doesn't have 21st century communication systems. We know that we're not adequately protecting our ports and our borders. We know that weapons of mass destruction can still be acquired by the most dangerous people in the world.

As the people on flight 93 said, let's roll. Let's do something. We have a lot of work to do to protect this country and we have work to do to bring Khalid Shaikh Mohammed to justice, and put him through our justice system. That will show the entire world that America has different values than these terrorists. We put them through a system that works, that has disagreement with the outcome, but it works, and Moussaoui will quickly go away and slowly die.

BLITZER: He's 37 years old, he's a Frenchman of Moroccan ancestry, he's going to spent the rest of his life in an American prison. Congressman Tim Roemer, thanks very much for those words.

Kelli Arena is our justice correspondent, she was inside the courtroom. Once the verdict was read there, she eyewitnessed this defendant, Zacarias Moussaoui, clapping his hands and uttering those words.

Kelli, as you go through your notes, and as you remember what you saw, share some additional thoughts with our viewers.

ARENA: Well, one thing that I didn't mention was that when Moussaoui was asked to stand, as every defendant is asked to stand, when a verdict is read, he defiant until the end and he remained seated. His defense attorneys stood for him, and that has been sort of protocol throughout this entire trial. He has just refused to recognize the authority of this court.

As I'm going through my notes, the one thing that's interested, if I had to guess here, without had being part of the deliberations, the thing that the jury seemed to hone in on was the fact that he played a minor role. When you look at mitigating factors, three of the jurors said that his role was minor, and they actually wrote in their own mitigating factors which was that he had limited knowledge of the attacks.

There were zero that put in as a mitigating factor that he was -- you know, that he suffers from a psychological disorder. There were zero who said that they cared whether or not he was going to be a martyr for the cause. But those were the things that seemed to matter to this jury.

And you know, Wolf, when we talk about him going to prison for the rest of his life, we're not just talking any prison, we're talking the super max prison in Colorado. It is known as the Alcatraz of the Rockies. We heard a description of what his life would be like from a prison official. He'll be isolated in a cell. No access to television, to newspapers, to any other prisoners, inmates. He'll get one hour a day of exercise in what's described as a dog run. He will get his food will be fed to his in his cell. He'll be 38 years old at the end of this month, Wolf, not a pretty picture.

BLITZER: Kelli, you paint that picture well for our viewers. Thank you for that. Stand by, Mary Snow is in New York. Remember, in New York, almost five years ago, in September, it'll be five years, almost 3,000 people were killed at the twin towers. Mary Snow is speaking with a family member who's not very happy with this verdict.

Mary, what do you have?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Al and Maureen Santora, Wolf, are joining us now. They lost their son Christopher, he was 23 years old when he died on September 11, he was a firefighter. And Mr. Santora, let me start with you. You said initially, you wanted life in prison, but then, wanted the death penalty. Your reaction to this verdict today?

AL SANTORA, SON KILLED IN 9/11 ATTACK: Well, as I said earlier, we were -- it's kind of mixed emotion. We did want the life imprisonment for him, but when we heard him testify, Mr. Moussaoui testify several -- a week or so ago, he vowed to kill as many Americans as he could, and rather than see anymore Americans -- American blood spilled, we kind of changes our views, and said, well, maybe she should be put to death.

When the verdict came back today, I thought it was going to be death penalty, although as it dragged on for some six-and-a-half days, I kind of felt that he would probably get life in prison. I was kind of -- mixed emotions about it.

SNOW: Mrs. Santora, you have come throughout this trial, you've been watching on a closed circuit TV here at federal court. You said a handful of people were in that room. What was it like when the verdict was read?

MAUREEN SANTORA, SON KILLED IN 9/11 ATTACK: : Well, it was absolutely silent. Nobody said a word, sighed or -- I was probably the only one who said, "oh, god," you know, and...

SNOW: Do you feel justice was served?

M. SANTORA: Well, I don't think the jury believed Mr. Moussaoui, and I think the jury has a very daunting task. I was -- a very, very difficult trial. I think for him to spend the rest of his life around the very people he hates is a just punishment, yes.

SNOW: And Mr. Santora, you said before that you would like to see him -- you indicated at one point, you wanted to see him dead, correct?

A. SANTORA: Well -- I thought that the trial was dragged out for a lot longer than it needed to be. Again, our treatment is very human, and we bent over backwards. They gave him five defense attorneys. You just hope that if you ever do something wrong that the government will appoint five high level defense attorneys to defend you. I think we went out of our way to show that we gave him the fairest trial possible.

He vowed right from the very beginning that he was going to kill and kill as often as he could, and that he was part of this plot, so -- I don't know, the easiest way would have been to give him a fast execution. I had mentioned once before that they should have done the same thing they did to Benito Mussolini during the second World War.

And when I said that to some of the young reporters, they looked at me like I had two heads and I said, go back to your history books and read about Mussolini and what happened to him. And if we did something like that, if we gave him a public hanging or some other punishment, it might send a message that if you are fooling around at these guys, they're going to get back at you and America needs to be a little stronger than we are.

SNOW: Mr. and Mrs. Santora, thank you very much for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Mary, thanks to you, thanks very much.

These jurors deliberated for seven days, nine men, three women. This proceeding had been going on, the legal maneuvering before the actually trial, had been going on for more than four years, all the result of 9/11 and Zacarias Moussaoui, now will spend the rest of his life in an American prison, rather than getting the death sentence.

We're going to continue to watch this, Jeff Toobin, our senior legal analyst is standing by for some analysis. Jeff Greenfield is with us, as well. We'll take a very quick break. Much more of our special coverage here in THE SITUATION ROOM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: If you're just tuning in, we've been watching the verdict unfold. Zacarias Moussaoui sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. He's almost 37, almost 38 years old, will be spending the rest of his life in a maximum security prison here in the United States, spared the death by these mine men, three women, members of this federal jury who have been meeting over these past many months in Alexandria, Virginia. Seven days of deliberations the verdict was announced a little while ago. Jeff Toobin watched it all with us. He's our senior legal analyst.

Jeff, we had assumed -- we had assumed that after the first phase of this sentencing trial, when the juries decided he was eligible for the death sentence that that was going to be the hard part this part would be relatively easy, it didn't turn out that way.

TOOBIN: It just shows what we know, Wolf I mean, these jurors they operate in their own world. They're supposed to be completely isolated and they are and they come up with there own conclusions.

Just a thought about something Congressman Roemer said, you know, I think this is a black eye for the Justice Department in losing this case, but this could actually turn out to be the benefit of the United States in a broader sense, because we have spent so much time, appropriately, on the defensive of about how we've treat prisoners in Abu Ghraib and in Guantanamo and in the war on terror.

And here, you know, we had the American due process system at work in public, and I think, in spite of Moussaoui's appalling behavior, and what he said he did, you know, the system didn't give him the ultimate punishment, and I think the message that that sends may be better received outside this country, at least, than if this had been a death sentence.

BLITZER: Stand by for a moment. Abbi Tatton, our internet reporter, is looking online at the verdict form and what we can learn, where our viewers can go if they want some more specific details on what the jurors decided and how they did so.

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, we've posted that 42 page document, the special verdict form that jurors have been looking at throughout their deliberations, at CNN.com/situationreport. And we just heard, just about an hour ago now, the results, those findings on each of these factors, the aggravating and mitigating factors, throughout that jury form. If you go though them, you get a little bit of an insight into what -- how the jury were weighing the different arguments in the case.

In the mitigating factors, aspects of childhood seemed important. Nine jurors found Moussaoui's father had a violent temper. Another one about childhood, nine jurors also found that Moussaoui had an unstable early childhood, hostile relations relationships.

On others of these factors, these mitigating factors, there was no support at all. For example, the argument that Moussaoui's execution would create a martyr. No jurors agree with that one. That he suffers from a psychotic disorder, again no jurors agreed with that one. All these findings were just for one of the three counts. All the findings on each of the three counts, they told us, are going to be posted on the Web site and we're going to have a link to that at as soon as we can at CNN.com/situationreport -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you, Abbi for that. Gerald Zerkin is one of the defense attorneys who had represented Zacarias Moussaoui, a public defender, court-appointed defense attorney. He's joining us on the phone right now.

I assume, Mr. Zerkin, you must be pleased that your client is not going to be executed.

ZERKIN: Well, certainly. You know, we're worked on the case for 4-1/2 years, and it's not been easy, at many times, and certainly, we're pleased with the result.

BLITZER: In many respects, he was the best witness for the prosecution, given his behavior in the court, what he had said. What was the relationship that you and your co-defense attorneys had with this individual? ZERKIN: Well, without getting into privileged matters, all I can say is that it was a relationship that was anywhere from difficult to nonexistent.

BLITZER: Difficult to nonexistent? Would he talk to you? Would he listen to you? Would he acknowledge you were his attorney?

ZERKIN: Well, he said, publicly, at the beginning of jury selection, on four separate occasions that we were not his counsel. When we were introduced as his counsel, he said that we were not. But I don't -- to talk about what was said or not said in meetings with Mr. Moussaoui, I think, would be inappropriate.

BLITZER: Our senior legal analyst, Mr. Zerkin, Jeff Toobin wants to ask you a question as well. Go ahead, Jeff.

TOOBIN: Your case had two general parts. One was the Moussaoui had a difficult background, is a troubled person. It also had the part of Moussaoui was a minor player in this whole plot. Given what the jury has said in its answers, which part do you think was more important?

ZERKIN: Well, you know, it's difficult to say, because you know how many people found a given mitigating factor, but you don't know how much weight they attributed to it. I think clearly, the hold -- the spillover from the first phase of the trail, in terms of his role in the events, was plainly a very significant factor in this result.

The other factors about him, my guess would be humanized him, which is also important in a capital prosecution, and so, I think that was clearly important to some people. It gave them some reason for wanting to spare him, and I think to that extent, that certainly played a role.

TOOBIN: Do think the case was overcharged? Do you think they simply just tried to build him into something he wasn't?

ZERKIN: Well -- you know, I referred to him, we alternately referred to him as a wannabe, as a -- you know, unsuccessful al Qaeda operative. He -- but ultimately, I don't know that it was overcharged. I mean, if you were going to charge it, this was supposedly the way to do it. I think that until he took the stand, the evidence that he had any involvement in it was extremely weak.

BLITZER: All right, Jeff Toobin and Gerald Zerkin, I want to thank you, Mr. Zerkin, for joining us for a few moments. One of the criminal defense attorneys, court-appointed, who had represented Zacarias Moussaoui.

Our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield is joining us now from New York.

You've been watching all of this unfold for the past couple hours, Jeff. As he was emerging from the court, he screamed out, "America you lost, I won," he then clapped his hands. A lot of us are going to remember that as we reflect on what happened today. JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Yes, I think Zacarias Moussaoui is kind of a poster boy for the rationalities of juries of some case, because you'd think given his behavior they would have wanted to just say, you know, why don't you just leave the earth.

Just make two quick points. I think this jury verdict actually makes a lot of coherent sense. They rejected almost everything that he tried to say in his mitigation, accept that he wasn't really directly involved in 9/11, which accounts for on the count that they said, yes, he wanted to impose bodily harm, yes, he wanted to cause great disruption, but the one thing that they didn't find unanimously was direct responsibility for 3,000 deaths.

There's a broader point I quickly want to get to, which is the way that this case and the broader issue of Islamofascism and the enemies that we face, for the whole death penalty argument in a whole different category. WE always thing of the death penalty as the most severe sanction we can impose, and in the Western world that makes sense.

But, you're dealing with people -- Osama bin Laden says we're going to beat you because you love life and we love death. You have women -- mothers, who praise their sons who become suicide bombers and dream that their other children will do the same and the cold calculus of life and death and this whole broad struggle we're facing now, really makes the death penalty issue an issue that is thrown into a wholly different light than we're used to seeing it.

And to me, one of the things the jury has done, and has kind of sent a message to the rest of the world is, you know what? We really think these things through, even in the midst of a great emotional upheaval, which was certainly 9/11, in a way that maybe you want to learn something form -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jeff, we're waiting to hear from the president. He's going to be speaking out momentarily. We'll go to the White House once he does. In the meantime, I want to bring in our terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen.

You spent a lot of time studying al Qaeda, studying this case. What do you think the reaction among the terrorists is going to be to this verdict?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think the reaction is going to be almost zero. Zacarias Moussaoui was an al Qaeda wannabe, he was somebody that al Qaeda was actually trying separate from the 9/11 plot.

We had a lot of testimony in this trial about what a disaster this guy was as a terrorist, and basically we want to push him aside, maybe give him a little bit of money, send him to the United States, if he can do some damage, that's great. But basically they wanted to marginalize him from al Qaeda.

Terrorist groups are not stupid. They don't want to have people like Zacarias Moussaoui on the team. He's too dangerous in the sense that he's irrational; he doesn't get along with people. And I think the real message of this trial is, in fact, that we're not trying the right people.

I mean, we have in our custody Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the operational commander of 9/11, and Ramzi Binalshibh, the other operational commander of 9/11, and as far as I can tell, there is no plan to put any of these guys on trial, even though they are in U.S. custody.

BLITZER: But both of them presumably are in U.S. custody outside of the United States, isn't that right?

BERGEN: Well, they're outside of the United States, but they're certainly in our custody, in American custody, and the question is, why can these guys not be on trial? If we can put Zacarias Moussaoui away for life without parole, which means he will never get out of this horrible prison, certainly if we put these guys on trial, they would immediately get the -- you know, they would get the death penalty. And, in fact, we had a very good history, in this country, of trying terrorists and they get life without parole whenever they're put on trial.

That happened in the U.S. embassy's case, that happened in the Zacarias Moussaoui case. And if there are things that are secret you don't want to let the general public know, there are things you can have in camera. There are ways of handling secret information in court information in courtrooms. And I think the larger message of this trial is why are we not putting on trial the people who actually planned the 9/11 attacks on trial.

BLITZER: Well, that's a good question and Tim Roemer, one of the former 9/11 commissioners asked exactly the same question.

Jeff Greenfield, you've studied all of this. So, what's the possibly explanation why Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh have not been brought to the United States to stand trial?

GREENFIELD: I think there is, Wolf, which is, in other conflicts, in World War II was the most dramatic one, when we created war crimes tribunal, we had defeated states and we were holding the people who were high officials within those state responsible.

And my feeling is that this whole broad fight, the notion that we can get some kind of ultimate victory. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't try these people, but the idea that we can defeat this movement, by trying to right people, if that's what anybody thinks, it seems to me, really...

(CROSSTALK)

BERGEN: Jeff, that's not the argument. That's not the argument. The argument is simply that we know who are the people responsible for 9/11, they have been in American custody. Why respect w aren't we trying them? I think that there are some answer, unfortunately.

We probably mistreated them in such a way, the "New York Times" reported, for instance, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was mortar boarded, which is essentially, a from of abused or even tortured where you take somebody, you make them feel like they're drowning and none of the things that he said are admissible in American court. That's the real story.

But I don't think this is the American way. And I think that we need to think very carefully about how to integrate these people, bring these people back into the American judicial system as opposed to this independent sort of prison system that we're running, which is administered by the CIA and is probably administered in countries outside the United States. But that is not the American way, I don't think.

GREENFIELD: My only point was this is such a different kind of struggle -- you're our expert on this -- then what we are used to thinking, that while the trials may make a lot of sense, if we can do it, or maybe they don't given what's happened to them, the idea that somehow by bringing them to justice, we bring to justice the whole movement, the way we brought the Nazi system or the Japanese system under Hirohito to justice, if anybody thinks that, and you know this better than anybody else on this program, that's probability widely misplaced is my point. No, Peter?

BERGEN: OK, yes.

BLITZER: OK guys, hold on for a second. I want to just take a very quick commercial break and continue our special coverage. We're standing by, waiting to hear from the president. Stay with us.

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BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM, we're reporting on the verdict that Zacarias Moussaoui will get life in prison without the possibility of parole rather than the death sentence. We're standing by, we expect to hear from the president of the United States, shortly. We're also standing by during our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, here in THE SITUATION ROOM to hear from the former mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani, his reaction to what happened in this courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, today.

Jeff Toobin and Peter Bergen are still with us.

Jeff Greenfield, explain why you think this -- such an extraordinary that two of the real operators in 9/11 who are in U.S. custody, Ramzi Binalshibh and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed are not being tried whereas someone who may have been a bit player in all of this was tried and convicted, sentenced to life in prison.

GREENFIELD: No, I think Peter explained some of the problems that might arise if we try to -- the genuine concern is Moussaoui was in an American prison, he was captured he more or less told us that he wanted to do this. And I think they thought it was a relatively easy target, you know, that the so-called 20th hijacker.

And I think that they -- I think the thinking about this was that in some way this would make up -- this would prove that we got one of the people and might, if I can be a little cynical or skeptical about this, make up for what seems to have been a rather disastrous failure of intelligence, pre-9/11.

BLITZER: Peter, give us a final thought before we wrap up this hour's coverage.

BERGEN: It would be very unfortunate if the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui was the best we ever get in terms of the 9/11 plot. We've got a lot of other people to find Osama bin Ladin, Ayman al-Zawahiri and a lot of other people to try, in my view.

BLITZER: Peter Bergen, Jeff Greenfield, I want to thank all of our reporters, all of our analysts, the family members who joined us over the past two hours here in THE SITUATION ROOM for our extended special coverage. Zacarias Moussaoui will spend the rest of his life in prison. And we'll continue our coverage in an hour when we're back in THE SITUATION ROOM. Until then, thanks very much for joining us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" standing by and Lou is in New York -- Lou.

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