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Nancy Grace
Moussaoui Sentenced to Life in Prison; Michael Jackson in Hot Water
Aired May 04, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news -- known terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui escapes the death penalty. Moussaoui, accused of helping mastermind the bloodiest attack ever on U.S. soil. Life handed down just after one last outburst from Moussaoui, cursing America and praising Osama bin Laden.
And at the other end of the legal spectrum tonight, music icon Michael Jackson, acquitted as you know of child molestation charges, tonight, in more hot water.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, he moonwalked to superstardom back in the `80s, but will Michael Jackson pull out of serious legal battle? And tonight, where in the world is Michael Jackson? How can he legally be served with papers if he can`t be found?
But first tonight, breaking news out of a federal courtroom. Convicted 9/11 terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui gets life behind bars. Tonight, why did a jury spare Moussaoui after convicting him on heinous crimes against the American people?
Even if the jury forgot them, we remember our fallen heroes who died September 11. Tonight, we are taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The testimony of the defendant was deeply offensive, but through it all, the victims have triumphed over the terrorist`s rants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in this case, the victims were allowed to come into court and testify regardless for their desire for a particular outcome
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The jury did its job. They listened to the evidence and they came up with a verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I have to say I`m glad to se that this will be the last day that Mr. Moussaoui is in the headlines. He will be in the jail for the rest of his life which is exactly what this man deserves.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One thing about this is I am so glad we can all stop talking about Moussaoui. Move forward and talk about all the wonderful people that were lost that day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Zacarias Moussaoui, of French descent and Moroccan descent today gets life behind bars. There is no doubt about it. This man admitted that he and Richard Reid were set to pilot a plane together to crash into the White House. Commonly believed to have been the fifth plane. I want to go straight out to Charlie Hurt, national reporter with the "Washington Times." Welcome, Charlie. Did the jury give any indication why they spared Moussaoui the death penalty?
CHARLIE HURT, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Yes, ma`am, they did. There were three jurors at least who wrote in their explanations about the verdict. Saying that they did not think in the end he knew enough for was anything more than sort of a bit player in the planning of 9/11. And because of that, they could not go that -- you know, that final mile to convict him -- to sentence him to death.
GRACE: Charlie, let me get this straight. Three of the jurors believed that Moussaoui was a bit player? Did I hear that?
HURT: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: OK, now, isn`t it true that he had stated on several occasions that he and Richard Reid were set is to pilot a plane to crash into the White House?
HURT: Yes. But I think one of real questions here is whether the guy was crazy, which I think he probably is, or sort of crazy like a fox. Because he said so many different things, so many competing things about whether he was involved, he wasn`t involved, he was guilty of this, not guilty of this, and by the end it got to the point where he was not talking to the lawyers and not listening and taking their advice or appeared to not be taking their advice. I think a lot of jurors looked at it and said, golly, the guy is just nuts.
GRACE: To Ben Ferguson, host of the Ben Ferguson show on Radio America. Why do we care if he cooperated with his lawyers. That`s not what the trial was about. The trial was about did he have anything to do with 9/11. Or am I crazy.
BEN FERGUSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: He did and he admitted it and he was proud of it. He was glad that helped kill American citizens. He said he wanted to do it the day after that and the day after that and the day after that. He wished more people would have died. You have a man that comes in and admits and is proud of his crime. If he doesn`t deserve the dealt penalty in this country, then honestly, who does?
GRACE: Back to Charlie Hurt, national reporter with the "Washington Times." Here`s a guy, Charlie, and correct me if I`m wrong, it`s to the facts that came out before this particular jury, has spared Moussaoui the death penalty. He admitted he was a member of al Qaeda. He admitted that he had studied and learned at a terrorist camp. He was found to making phone calls to relatives of the terrorists and admitted freely that he intended to pilot a plane into the White House but he was arrested first.
HURT: He sure did and of course one of the most haunting aspects of all of it was the fact that he was picked up three weeks before 9/11 and based on tips and things like that about fact that he was inquiring about how to fly a 747 and gee, if the plane was full of fuel and hit something, how much damage would it do? So there`s clearly no doubt that he had at least some connection to al Qaeda. But I think obviously the point that some jurors didn`t feel comfortable about was how much of a connection.
GRACE: To James Gordon Meek, a reporter with the "New York Daily News." He`s been in court throughout the trial. James, I have to tell you, I`m stunned. As a trial veteran, when a jury takes this long to come back on a death penalty case, it`s not likely that you get a death penalty verdict. So my mind told me that this was not going be a death verdict. But with the facts like these admitted, James, what was the jury`s rationale.
JAMES GORDON MEEK, "DAILY NEWS": Well, the jury -- You can hear me OK, Nancy?
GRACE: Sure.
MEEK: The jury did have to consider a lot of evidence. But you brought up something that was very important. You said that he admitted that he and Richard Reed, the convicted shoe bomber, were going to fly a plane into the White House on 9/11. The problem was he was lying when he said is to that. And we know that because at the very end of the trial the defense entered into evidence a stipulation, a set of facts that was agreed upon by both the defense and the government that cited the work of two FBI analysts that said Richard Reid was not part of any plan to do anything with his friend Zacarias Moussaoui. They knew each other but Reid was traveling all over Europe, he was in Israel and Afghanistan at the time of 9/11.
And they concluded there was no evidence to support the fact that Reid had anything do with any mission of any kind with Zacarias Moussaoui, much less the September 11th plot and so the jurors heard that and at least several of them realized that that certainly was a strong indication that he lied about a lot of things including his directly role in the 9/11 plot.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. James.
MEEK: . this guy could not fly an airplane as of 9/11. So the several jurors not only concluded that one of the mitigating factors that he had a minor role, if any, in the 9/11 operation. It looks like those three same jurors wrote in an additional mitigating factor that the defense hadn`t even asked him to consider, which was that Zacarias Moussaoui, I`m quoting here, "had limited knowledge of the 9/11 attack plans." And I think that`s clear. This guy was puffing himself up to be something bigger than he was. He was the Walter Mitty of al Qaeda.
GRACE: James, what you just argued to me regarding Richard Reid to me more exonerates Richard Reid from the 9/11 plan as opposed to exonerating Moussaoui. I don`t know any better as to whether Moussaoui was a good pilot or not but had he been taking flight lessons?
MEEK: And Reid was nowhere near the United States.
GRACE: My question was we`re talking about Moussaoui. Had Moussaoui been taking flight lessons?
MEEK: True, he was learning how to fly a 747 which does not fly inside the domestic United States. None of the other hijackers in the 9/11 cell trained on 747 flight simulators. They trained for flight simulators on planes that flew inside the U.S. which, with all the planes that flew on 9/11 were flying domestic routes. 747s fly out of Asia, for example, and Moussaoui, according to the 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was to be part originally of a second wave attack after 9/11 hijacking U.S. bound planes out of Asia to hit West Coast targets but ultimately they said he was scratched from that mission. And that was a fact that the government agreed to that statement by the 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in CIA custody.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I`m disappointed. I don`t know. It would have been a lot easier for 28 cents or 30 cents to buy a round and place it right in his brain. That would have been very simple. We would have saved millions upon millions of dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m very disappointed today because I would have liked to see Moussaoui get the death penalty. There`s a lot of reasons for that. But I think personally it`s a very dangerous thing for him to be in the prison. I don`t have the confidence in the prison system and those who will be responsible for him to be sure that he stays in prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us now is Peter Gadiel. He lost his son on September 11th. Sir, thank you for being with us. What is your response to the jury`s decision?
PETER GADIEL, LOST SON IN 9/11: I`m stunned to say the least. If they decided that he knew of the plot, then he was part of the plot. He had it within his power to save 3,000 lives. He chose not to. That makes him guilty of complicity in the plot of the murder of 3,000 people. And I can`t imagine that there are any conceivable mitigating circumstances that would justify not giving him the death penalty.
GRACE: Peter, when you heard this decision what was your immediate reaction?
GADIEL: I guess -- I wasn`t really that surprised given the state of justice in this country and the failure of this country to pursue the ends that it must to secure the people of the United States. I guess nothing surprises me anymore.
GRACE: Back to James Gordon Meek with the New York "Daily News." James, you mentioned that he wanted to fly a 747. In addition to that, isn`t it true that he had taken about 50 hours of flight training in Oklahoma on smaller planes?
MEEK: Yeah, the problem was that apparently his flight instructors concluded at the end of that, Nancy, that he couldn`t fly. He never soloed that aircraft. That was an argument that his defense made repeatedly. I think when you look at this verdict, the verdict form is very confusing because there were 33 questions that these jurors had to answer. One thing was absolutely clear, in the first phase of the trial, Nancy, they blamed him for killing at least one person on 9/11. The government was very emboldened by that eligibility verdict in the first phase. Then that question then became was he responsible for killing 3,000 people? And the jury found that they could accept maybe one, at least one person, but blaming him for all 3,000 -- I think what that means is they accepted if you told the truth to the FBI about what he knew, whatever that was, about a general plot to protect U.S. landmarks then maybe they could have stopped some of the hijackings or one hijacked plane and saved some lives. But I think the jury could not unanimously find themselves to agree that he was responsible for killing all 3,000 people who died that horrible day that none of us will ever forget.
GRACE: James. James. James. Isn`t it not that he is solely responsible for 9/11. That has never been suggested, but that he knew of and took part of the conspiracy for 9/11?
MEEK: That`s correct, but the government had a very tough time proving that. Because again, there were statements entered into evidence. Extraordinary statements from the masterminds of 9/11. We have caught nine people who were either masterminds, facilitators or were involved in the plot as low level people. And very consistently hey say that Moussaoui was not in on the plot.
GRACE: Question, why do you believe, James, with us is James Gordon Meek, reporter with the New York "Daily News," why do you believe that Moussaoui receive the $14,000 back in August of 2001 from an al Qaeda operative?
MEEK: The government argued because that was because he was to participate in 9/11. But he already had $30,000 in the bank which he has very conspicuously deposited in one bank account in Oklahoma.
And according to these captured detainees, and again, this is not a question of are these guys telling the truth or not, the government admits that they are telling the truth. They believe their statements to be factual and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who thought up and masterminded this plan, said is that Zacarias Moussaoui was not part of that operation and they sent him the money in effect to get rid of him. Because he was such an idiot. He was a smart guy but he was like a guy who tests well but performed very poorly. He kept calling them. He called them on their numbers he was never supposed to call on.
GRACE: Wait a minute, are you telling me .
MEEK: They were trying to get rid of him. According to these captured detainees.
GRACE: OK, hold on.
MEEK: So they sent him the money to get rid of him.
GRACE: To Peter Gadiel, who lost his son on 9/11, I can`t buy in my common sense that al Qaeda, the terror network, would pay someone to get rid of them. That doesn`t make sense. They killed thousands of people. Why would they pay somebody off to get rid of them and look at the timing. They pay him $14,000 the month before 9/11?
GADIEL: There`s a logical absurdity in the jury`s verdict. If they found him guilty of participating in the death of one, then they had to find that he was guilty for the death of all. Because there was not some separate crime someplace where an individual is murdered who had nothing to do with the other 3,000.
It`s impossible for them to have found that he was guilty to conspiring for the murder of one without murdering all 3,000.
GRACE: It`s totally inconsistent.
GADIEL: And once they found him guilty, you can only assume that three of them are soft headed, muddle headed and decided because he had a hard childhood, he somehow deserved to be found .
GRACE: A hard childhood -- Peter, please, I haven`t even gotten to their reasoning that he had a hard childhood yet and that`s why they excused him. We will be to that in just a moment. When this jury had to say in their decision to let Moussaoui go. Tonight we are taking your calls on this issue.
Let`s go to tonight`s "Trial Tracking," Rosie.
In a Florida courtroom, former homeland security spokesman Brian Doyle, released on bond. He is charged with soliciting a minor for sex on the Internet. Fifty-six-year-old Doyle allegedly communicated with a detective posing as, guess what, a 14-year-old girl online.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m very disappointed today because I would have liked to have seen Moussaoui get the death penalty
UNIDENTFIIED FEMALE: The jury came to the same conclusion that I came to and the people that I worked with on the 9/11 commission which was that Moussaoui really was not responsible for September 11th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought they would sit there and say, judge, we don`t have to leave, he is guilty, kill him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In a stunning decision, Moussaoui on trial for being part of the 9/11 plot that killed Americans has been given life behind bars. Let`s go to the lines. Carla in Indiana. Welcome.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I would like to thank you for your very informative and quality show that you give us every night. Being a veteran of the United States military honorably discharged and disabled at that, I`m not astonished to the jury`s decision to give him life but I am appalled at the decision because now the taxpayers that are giving me and income because I`m a disabled veteran are also going to support him, give him a place to live, food and shelter and that really bothers me. Help me out with this, please.
GRACE: Well, I`m concerned, too. And Carla, just to add insult to injury, it is going to cost about $50,000 a year to house this guy. We think he`s going to supermax. What you can tell me about where he`s going, Charlie Hurt?
HURT: It will be a pretty small prison cell and he is going to spend the rest of your life there. I don`t think you will be able to fit 72 virgins in there. It has got four inch windows and it`s sound proof. And I think he will be in solitary confinement for 23 or more hours a day. And so while obviously it`s not what a lot of people wanted to see, it`s -- he`s going to live out a pretty miserable, lonely, pathetic existence. And he won`t be a martyr, either, immediately.
GRACE: We can only hope. To Lisa in - is it Mississippi or Missouri?
CALLER: Missouri.
GRACE: Missouri. Hi, Lisa.
CALLER: Hi. Will he ever enter general population or will they keep him secluded .
GRACE: Isolated?
CALLER: . to himself?
GRACE: What about it, Charlie Hurt?
HURT: He`s there and he`s there for good until he dies.
GRACE: Will he be in general population?
HURT: No. My understanding is that he will not be, ever.
GRACE: We will be right back with the Moussaoui verdict stunning the family members of the 9/11 members when a jury said Moussaoui will get life behind bar. About $50,000 for you and me to pay for Moussaoui to live out his life.
To tonight`s "Case Alert" -- family members watch and wait desperately tonight for answers, one year after 25-year-old Janet Abaroa`s husband found her dead in the her North Carolina home. Police say they are following several leads. If you have info on Janet Abaroa, please call the Durham Police department at 919-560-4440.
Also on the docket, Binghamton, New York, police are searching for 34- year-old Bambi Lynn Madden, missing January 11. She left her home to run an errand. Her family begging for your help tonight. If you have information, 607-772-7080.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge continues to address him and she said that while you said in court yesterday, Mr. Moussaoui that I won and you lost, after this, everyone in this courtroom except for you gets to go home and see their families and eat what food they want and be with the people they want and look at the sky and listen to the birds and you won`t get to do anything like that. So it`s pretty clear who are the winners and who are the losers today
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Moussaoui gets life behind bars. Prosecutors allege he was part of the plot on America. To Abe Bonowitz, director of Citizens United for Alternatives to the D.P.
Abe, are you morally opposed the death penalty under all circumstances.
ABE BONOWITZ, CITIZENS UNITED FOR ALTERNATIVES TO THE DEATH PENALTY: I am now. I haven`t always been. I`m more of a pragmatist. And one of the reasons why I`m against the death penalty is because we don`t give it out nearly enough. In fact, this is just a classic example of how the death penalty is held out as a commodity for victim`s families.
GRACE: Shouldn`t you position be that you want more death penalties?
BONOWITZ: It used to be. But I`ve come to realize that we can`t trust government with the power to kill or the responsibility. And in fact, in general crimes, fewer than one percent of all people that are eligible for the death penalty actually get it. Then if we`re going to hold the death penalty out as a commodity for victims` families. If we`re going to hold the death penalty out as a commodity for victims` families then what we really are doing is selling them a lie, you are going to feel better when we kill the guy.
GRACE: Not the question I asked you. Let me move to a different question. Don`t you think Moussaoui is a special case? You don`t believe he deserved the death penalty?
BONOWITZ: What he deserves is a whole different question whether the government should have the power to kill.
GRACE: OK. Never mind. I am going to come back to you and ask you the same question.
BONOWITZ: One second. I just wanted to point out that you keep talking about the victim`s families and make sure people know that murder victims` families for reconciliation has .
GRACE: Not what I asked you .
BONOWITZ: Check out their statements on cuadp.org.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This sentence, one way or the other, we thought originally life. After listening to this man, I don`t want to see any more American blood shed as a result of this guy, you know, possibly attacking a guard, because our prison system is too lenient.
He`s not going to be in a cell in a dungeon where they toss water on him and play music all day long. He`s going to have the best life he ever had. He`s got three square meals a day. He`s got a clean room. He`ll be exercised every day. How great is this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To defense attorney Paul Looney, joining us out of the Houston jurisdiction, how exactly can you disassociate the $14,000 Al-Qaeda paid him in August before the September attack?
PAUL LOONEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, $14,000 given to this guy a month before the attack, the lifestyle he led, he wasn`t going to spend it during that time period. My supposition is that Al-Qaeda, being very sophisticated, would never use somebody they`ve decided is a nut.
GRACE: Oh, good lord! Sophisticated? They had box-cutters. That`s not sophisticated.
LOONEY: Nancy, it worked.
GRACE: They used our planes.
LOONEY: It worked.
GRACE: Yes, it did.
LOONEY: It worked. That`s pretty sophisticated.
GRACE: All right.
Alex Sanchez, the $18,000, agree or disagree?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Disagree with him getting the death penalty?
GRACE: Eighteen thousand, Alex, $18,000, the month before 9/11, you want to tell me he`s not part of 9/11?
SANCHEZ: You know something, even if everything you`re saying is true, even if we come to the conclusion that he had some role in 9/11, which, from the evidence I heard, it sounds like he may have had some type of role, the jury heard this.
GRACE: Well, isn`t that enough?
SANCHEZ: The jury heard this. The jury considered the aggravating factors, as well as the mitigating factors. And in our system of the justice, this case wasn`t tried in the Hague; it wasn`t tried in some U.N. trial; it wasn`t tried in another country where they don`t have the death penalty. It was tried amongst our people, in our country, amongst our rules of jurisprudence, and our people determined that he should not get the death penalty. Who are we to disagree with them?
GRACE: I disagree.
To Ben Ferguson, Ben, you heard Abe Bonowitz speaking earlier about the death penalty. Response?
FERGUSON: Well, I think it`s absolutely absurd to say this man doesn`t deserve the death penalty. The people, they took into consideration his childhood.
I don`t care how screwed up his childhood was; I don`t care if he lived a bad life; I don`t care if they made fun of him when he was a kid. This man helped kill 3,000 Americans, and he deserves to be shot to death, in my opinion, because it doesn`t matter what he did in the past.
And to say Al-Qaeda didn`t like him, they tried to pay him off. I`m sorry, that`s insulting, in my opinion, to everyone that`s a victim and an American citizen, to say, "Oh, they were trying to buy him off." Do you think I`m going to believe that? I don`t think so.
GRACE: To James Gordon, James, what was the jury thinking about his childhood in mitigation?
MEEK: Well, they didn`t buy all of the childhood claims. They didn`t buy the claims that he was a paranoid schizophrenic.
But let me say something about $14,000. Look, I understand your skepticism about that. I`ve been covering Al-Qaeda since bin Laden declared war in 1998. And I`m skeptical about everything.
But what we had here was a series of statements from captured senior Al-Qaeda detainees...
GRACE: Oh, like you`re going believe them?
MEEK: Now, you can say these guys are liars, say whatever you want. But the government said that their statements were factually true, the government said that, in the stipulation.
These guys are being held in separate CIA black sites around the world. They`re not getting their stories straight about Moussaoui in the yard at Guantanamo Bay, and they`re all saying the same thing.
They sent him out on a mission to Malaysia. He screwed up at every turn. They said, "Don`t call us on our cell phones." He called every single day until they had to toss their cell phones. And that happened once he got to Oklahoma, as well. Finally, they decided, after trying several times to cut this guy loose, they said, "That`s it," and that happened right before 9/11.
He had a French passport. He had an education. He was you might even say a leadership candidate. But he was a guy who, as I said, tested well, performed very poorly.
But there was another issue here. I mentioned these detainees. Last night, we saw very quickly the story go from the bombshell verdict. And whether you agree with the verdict or not, there was another issue that this raises, and the families themselves, the 9/11 families, raised it, which is: What do we do with the guys in custody who admitted, even before they were captured, on Al-Jazeera...
GRACE: James, James, James, James, James, James, James...
MEEK: ... like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, that he was the mastermind of these attacks.
GRACE: I want to go to Charlie Hurt with the original...
MEEK: What do we do with those guys? We`re holding them indefinitely.
GRACE: ... question. Charlie, the question is that I tried to get from James Meek, the jury is thinking about Moussaoui`s childhood.
HURT: Well, obviously, when you look at the verdict form, nine of them said that it was a -- you know, that it was a contributing factor. And, you know, if you`re really dissatisfied with this verdict, then you read that, and you walk away saying, you know, boy, they really were soft- headed. They really did...
GRACE: Specifically, please, specifically, Ellie, what did the jury say about Moussaoui`s childhood?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Well, I`ve got a whole list of mitigating factors here that they considered. Nine of them found his unstable early childhood and dysfunctional family to be a mitigating factor they considered. Another nine agreed that his father had a violent temper and physically and emotionally abused his family, something else they looked at.
Here`s another one: He was subject to racism as a youngster because of his Moroccan background when he lived in France. Three jurists thought that this had an impact on the sentence.
GRACE: To Dr. Carol Freund, she lost her brother. He was a firefighter on 9/11. Carol, were you considered that, if Moussaoui got the death penalty, he would become a martyr?
DR. CAROL FREUND, 9/11 VICTIM: Yes, that was one of my concerns. By getting the death penalty, we would have given him what he wanted, which was to die a martyr.
GRACE: Did you know that, at the very beginning, he vowed to fight the death penalty?
FREUND: No, I was not aware of that, but certainly his actions don`t indicate that.
GRACE: Well, why do you think they want to trial for him to avoid the death penalty, if he wanted the death penalty?
FREUND: I think he wanted the death penalty. He wanted to die a martyr. He was being defended by attorneys who were dedicated to giving him a fair and just trial in our justice system. His wishes may have been different than theirs.
GRACE: Right, right. Well, according to the "New York Times" -- and I`m looking at a March 28, 2006, statement -- "Moussaoui vowed to fight the death penalty to the last of his strength." Now, that says to me he didn`t want the death penalty.
But, aside from that, I`d like to hear a few words about your brother.
FREUND: My brother, Peter, was a firefighter for 22 years. He enjoyed what he did. He was lieutenant with Engine 55, which was based in Little Italy. He was one of the first two engine companies to arrive at the scene that day. He perished in the North Tower, along with my cousin firefighter, Timothy Patrick McSweeney. He left behind three children and a wife, and this has been devastating to the entire family.
GRACE: I want to say I`m sorry, but I know those words are so hollow.
To Peter Gadiel, lost his son, can I hear about your son?
GADIEL: He was a very special human being. I always referred to him as a gentleman and a gentle man. He was a very kind soul. He was just 23. And he was just a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful young man.
And I`ll never be the same. I`ll miss him every minute of the rest of my life, and I couldn`t possibly find the right words to say enough good about my son. And just that there are too many people in our own government who failed at their own jobs and probably should be sitting in a courtroom some place with charges filed against them, as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: I never thought that I would have Moussaoui and Michael Jackson in the same sentence, but there you have it. Let`s go straight out to Tom O`Neil with "In Touch Weekly."
What now?
TOM O`NEIL, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": What now with Michael? Well, we believe he`s back in Bahrain. There were rumors that he and the prince had had a falling out. Apparently not.
Now, Michael has made an announcement that he`s really serious about rejuvenating his music career. He`s made a deal with a guy in London named Guy Holmes, whose specialty -- he`s famous for an animated frog character called Crazy Frog.
GRACE: OK, that should work.
O`NEIL: And you download it, you know, off ring tones.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: What? He`s been pursuing -- now, wait a minute. Did you hear that? Let`s just examine what you, Tom O`Neil with "In Touch Weekly," has just reported. A, we don`t know where Jackson is, but we think he`s in Bahrain. You`re telling me he just allegedly entered into a deal with a guy that downloads a frog on ring tones and he`s serious about his music career?
O`NEIL: Absolutely. And this guy also -- his other claim to fame is that had rejuvenated the career of another music has-been, Tom Jones. And the reports are that this isn`t just a music deal, Nancy...
GRACE: Hey, Tom Jones is great.
O`NEIL: I think he is, too, and he deserves a comeback. But the word is here that Michael has made this guy his financial advisor, too.
GRACE: Oh, good lord. How many financial advisers can one person have?
To Brian Oxman, Jackson family attorney, Brian, is it true that Jackson is depressed and he has put himself in isolation?
BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, I think that the entire trial was something which depressed, not only Michael, it depressed me, it depressed the entire family.
GRACE: Is that a yes?
OXMAN: I think that this was a crucible. And, yes, it depressed him, no question about it. It was one of the most trying experiences of anyone`s life, and it`s had repercussions. He went to Bahrain to recuperate, and, really, he`s doing pretty good. He`s in good health, and he`s gaining weight.
GRACE: But didn`t you just tell one of our producers today that Michael Jackson is in a deep depression and he is isolated?
OXMAN: I think that he`s been in a deep depression as a result of this trial, no question. It affected every one of us.
GRACE: But now he`s out? He`s gotten out in the last five hours?
OXMAN: I wouldn`t say that, Nancy. I think that he`s recovering, and he`s doing very well, and we`re looking for a lot of good things from Michael.
GRACE: What?
OXMAN: He has done this record deal with Guy Holmes, which is where Guy is going to be the head and CEO of Two Seas Records, which is the record company put together by Prince Abdulla. And he is working on a record, and we want to have that. And, really, what his entire family wants is they want him to come home.
Michael, we miss you.
GRACE: To Alex Sanchez, Michael Jackson repeatedly said throughout the trial that he loves Santa Maria, he loves his community. If he loves it so much, why isn`t he living there? Or is that just a way to taint the jury pool?
SANCHEZ: Look, this guy is a famous person, one of the most famous persons in the world. He`s being hounded wherever he goes. Everybody, there`s a lot of people that just want to touch him. They view him as a God-like figure.
And the man cannot, you know, enjoy any type of privacy, and there`s a lot of people that want to get near him, not to help him, but to somehow help themselves out. He`s got lawsuits all over the place. I don`t see how he could ever recover from this depression that he`s in, because he has so many legal troubles, so many bankruptcy issues that it seems to me that he`s going to be in this morass for quite a long time.
GRACE: To Dr. Linda Gunsberg, clinical psychologist and forensic expert, do you really believe this talk of a comeback? We know right now that he has huge money problems pending in court. He`s facing a custody battle. The next court date is, what, Ellie? May 24th. He`s back in court on a custody issue.
Do you think we`ll ever see him perform publicly again?
DR. LINDA GUNSBERG, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I do think that he will perform publicly again, but that doesn`t mean that he isn`t a troubled man. As a matter of fact, it`s really interesting that, besides the charges of pedophilic behavior towards young boys, he also has reported rages and tantrums. He`s kind of like a wacky dude. So I think that there`s...
GRACE: That`s your professional opinion?
GUNSBERG: Wacky dude, yes.
GRACE: Wacky dude, OK.
Paul Looney, how do you control wacky dude in court? We don`t want a repeat, an encore performance of the back medicine and the pajama day.
LOONEY: Well, any time that you get in court, you have to take your defendant as you find them, but you do have to have control...
GRACE: In their pajamas?
LOONEY: If they`re in their pajamas, you make the best of it. You do have to take control, though. The defendant can`t control the courtroom, and Jackson did a great job of behaving as his lawyers wanted him to, giving the appearance that his lawyers wanted him to give, and showing the level of humanity that they wanted him to show. He does a good job of following instructions and directors. He`s a trained professional.
GRACE: Well, Paul Looney, the proof is in the pudding, OK? They acquitted him, so you must be right.
LOONEY: They did.
GRACE: To Brian Oxman, the Jackson family attorney, what exactly is set to go down May 24, Jackson in court?
OXMAN: This is a continuation of the family law case which is just like so many other family law cases that people have. There`s mediation, which is being discussed, and they`re trying to work out their differences, just like you and I would do in a family law case, and thousands of people that I`ve handled in family law case. It`s no different, and they`re working out their problems.
GRACE: So my question was: What`s supposed to go down on May 24? What kind of a hearing is it?
OXMAN: Discussion of the mediation and working out an arrangement regarding the children.
GRACE: Well, Brian, you`re evading the question. You and I can discuss something on the phone; we don`t have to go down to the courthouse in front of the judge to do it. So let me ask you a third time: Why are they going to court May 24?
OXMAN: There are simply discussions about mediations which have been ongoing, Nancy. It is nothing more or anything more unusual than an ordinary family law case.
GRACE: OK.
Tom O`Neil, what`s set down on May 24?
O`NEIL: Back in 2001, Debbie Rowe`s initial agreement to give up custody of the children took place before a judge who did not do an independent investigation about what`s best for these kids. So now that she`s fighting Michael on this custody issue, she has an appeals court that said, "Wait a minute. That initial agreement wasn`t properly handled," so she now has cause to go back to court to get her children.
GRACE: OK, so it`s a little bit more than a friendly discussion about mediation?
O`NEIL: Absolutely. And the stakes are very high, because she has not seen these kids, of course, since the -- we`re talking about two of the three children -- since she gave them up. It may be a case that Michael has to share from now on.
GRACE: Let`s quickly go to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for Duane Geiger, wanted in the 2005 Maryland murder of 49-year-old Ralph Amadi.
Geiger is 32, 6`1", 190 pounds, black hair, brown eyes. If you have info, call 410-265-8080.
Local news next for some of you. Reminder: Priest on trial for a nun`s death 26 years ago, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.
Please stay with us as we remember Army Sergeant Corey Dan, just 22, from Norway, Maine, killed, Iraq. Dan remembered as never meeting a stranger. Corey Dan, an American hero.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: I really need you to give me $7 million to me as soon as possible, $7.5, as an advance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I think that was one of calls that Jackson made at about 3:00 a.m. Let`s go to the lines, Joe in Florida. Hi, Joe.
CALLER: Hey, there, Nancy. Do you think Michael Jackson is really depressed because he can`t find any more little boys? Or, seriously, do you think he`ll ever face molestation charges again?
GRACE: I think that he is depressed over the current state of his affairs. I doubt pretty seriously after this last jury verdict any other alleged child molestation victim would have the courage to go forward. Good question, Joe.
To Tony in Colorado, hi, Tony.
CALLER: Hello?
GRACE: Hi, Tony, you`re on.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. It`s good to talk with you.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: If he is charged again or with any kind of charges, what are the chances of extradition?
GRACE: Oh, man, what about that -- to Paul Looney -- the possibility of extraditing someone from Bahrain?
LOONEY: Well, it`s not really hard. There are a lot of extradition treaties between our country and all of the countries in the Middle East. It`s not hard to get him back if he were facing a major felony.
GRACE: But Dr. Linda Gunsberg, nobody really even knows where he is tonight.
GUNSBERG: Well...
GRACE: Do you think he`s hiding out specifically from being served?
GUNSBERG: I don`t have a clue, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what? You`re right. That`s a loaded question.
What about it, Brian Oxman? You`re the Jackson family attorney. Why is he choosing to live in Bahrain, keeping his children away from America, from their mom?
OXMAN: Nancy, he is in Bahrain because Prince Abdulla has invited him there, and Prince Abdulla has been one of his staunchest supporters throughout the entire trial. We would have conversations at 3:00 a.m. in the morning with Michael on a conference call with Prince Abdulla and I on the other end.
He`s just a very fine man, and he likes Michael, and Michael likes being there. And I want to say one other thing.
GRACE: OK.
OXMAN: This business about there being other charges or investigations, not so, it`s not happening. And the most important thing I want to emphasize, Michael was innocent of these charges. There is no question about it. The jury said 14 times...
GRACE: Then why did he pay that $20 million the first time and the $1 million the next time?
OXMAN: I can tell you, if you will read the motion I filed in that case.
GRACE: Brian, Brian, we`re about to go to black. I want to thank you.
OXMAN: You betcha.
GRACE: I`ll let you finish that thought on your next appearance.
Our biggest thank you is to you for being with us and inviting us into your homes. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp. Until then, good night, friend.
END
