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Lou Dobbs Tonight
CIA Director Porter Goss Resigns; Rising Insurgency in Iraq; Congress Finally Getting Serious About Port Security; Patrick Kennedy Incident Police Report; Congress Has Extremely Low Poll Numbers; Jonathan Alter Interview; Marine Captain Christopher Bronzi Honored
Aired May 05, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, CIA Director Porter Goss has resigned suddenly and without explanation after less than two years on the job at a critical time in the war against Islamist terrorists.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Friday, May 5th.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
CIA Director Porter Goss today abruptly resigned from the CIA. Goss gave no reason for his departure and President Bush did not announce a replacement. An announcement is expected early next week.
Goss's resignation comes at a time of wide dissatisfaction within the CIA about his leadership. Many senior CIA agents and analysts have quit or been forced out. There are also reports that one of Goss's top lieutenants at the CIA may be linked to the bribery scandal involving former congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham.
Elaine Quijano reports from the White House on Goss's sudden resignation. John Roberts reports from Washington on one possible reason for the Goss resignation.
We begin with Elaine Quijano at the White House -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, as you mentioned, during that Oval Office announcement, there was no explanation given by either President Bush or Porter Goss about the reason for his resignation. Now, President Bush did praise Porter Goss' tenure at the CIA as director of the CIA, less than two years, saying that he was there at a time of transition.
Mr. Bush also said that Goss helped the agency become integrated into the intelligence community and that he led ably. And although the president did not have a successor at the ready, he tried to send a signal about the importance of the CIA in fighting terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am confident that his successor will continue reforms that he's put in place. And as a result, this country will be more secure. We've got to win the war on terror, and the Central Intelligence Agency is a vital part of that war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, intelligence sources close to the discussions of the future of the CIA say that Goss had differences with the man he reported to, John Negroponte, the director of National Intelligence. An intelligence source says that Negroponte and his deputy wanted changes, like moving operations and CIA functions out of the CIA and to the DNI, and that Goss pushed back vigorously.
Now, a senior administration official here says that -- that Porter Goss's boss, John Negroponte, did in fact raise the possibility of Goss leaving, and this official saying that ultimately the decision was based on a "mutual understanding" between Negroponte, Goss and President Bush. And as you mentioned, Lou, this official also saying that a successor could be named as early as Monday -- Lou.
DOBBS: Is this a firing or is it a resignation?
QUIJANO: It is a resignation. This is what the president was careful to point out first thing in that Oval Office announcement, saying that in fact his resignation had been submitted and that he accepted it. So, the White House is calling this a resignation.
DOBBS: Elaine Quijano from the White House.
Thank you.
Porter Goss's leadership at the CIA was highly controversial from the beginning. Goss brought in several political aides from Congress to help him run the agency. Goss also promoted an old friend to the number three position at the CIA, and it turns out this old friend may have been involved in the corruption scandal involving former congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham.
John Roberts joins me now from Washington.
John, tell us more about the possible links between the CIA executive and the Cunningham scandal.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SR. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me, first of all, preface this, Lou, by saying that anybody who has any knowledge of this case is denying that it has anything do with Porter Goss's resignation today. But here's what we know.
A man who he plucked out of relative obscurity to become the director of the CIA, Kyle Dusty Foggo, is now under investigation by the FBI, and as well the investigator general of the CIA, looking into contracts that were awarded to a man who was described as an unindicted co-conspirator in the Duke Cunningham investigation. That man's name is Brent Wilkes. He ran a number of companies, one of which got a contract from the CIA worth about $2 million or $3 million to deliver bottled water and other household goods to CIA personnel in war zones like Iraq and Afghanistan.
It also turns out that Wilkes is a long-time friend of Dusty Foggo's, and that the two of them on occasion would play poker together at hospitality suites that Wilkes was hosting poker nights in, in either the Watergate or the Westin Grand hotels in Washington, D.C. It's also been alleged by another person involved with this case that Wilkes was involved in procuring prostitutes and limousines for Duke Cunningham.
So the FBI is looking into what possible connection Foggo may have with the Cunningham investigation, and as well, the inspector general of the CIA looking into whether or not the contracts that were awarded to Wilkes company were done appropriately. We have heard from a CIA spokesperson on that front. They say absolutely there was nothing inappropriate with any of the contracts that were awarded under Foggo's tenure -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you.
John Roberts from Washington.
Former White House adviser Scooter Libby today went to federal court in Washington in the latest stage of the CIA-White House leak investigation. A federal judge held a hearing to discuss what evidence the federal government can use against Libby. Libby's attorneys said they planned to call presidential adviser Karl Rove as a defense witness. Libby faces charges of lying to investigators and a grand jury.
The Bush White House is facing a rising insurgency in Iraq. Insurgents have killed seven more of our soldiers and our Marines. Three of them were killed in a roadside bomb attack today, 2,415 of our troops have now been killed since this war began.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the first five days of May, 11 Americans have died in combat in Iraq. The latest deaths coming when a roadside bomb hit a U.S. Army convoy in Babil (ph), about 35 miles south of Baghdad. That puts May on track to be just as deadly for U.S. troops as April, when 76 Americans died, the highest number in one month since last November.
Even so-called up-armored Humvees offer little protection from terrorist bombs that military sources say are not just bigger, but better and more widespread. But at least the U.S. military has armored Humvees. Most Iraqi troops drive around in unarmored trucks. And one U.S. commander told the Pentagon briefing that despite more than $6 billion spent last year to arm Iraqi troops, many units are still not properly outfitted.
MAJ. GEN. THOMAS TURNER, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL DIVISION NORTH: A major inhibitor to independent operations is lack of equipment, manpower, their inability to sustain themselves, and a lack of systems or policies in place to manage the organization. MCINTYRE: The Pentagon insists the equipment is in the pipeline. It can't come too soon. A strategy document captured by the U.S. military shows that the insurgents are increasingly targeting Iraqis over Americans in an effort to fan a Sunni-Shia civil war.
"The losses of American forces in Baghdad are hardly worth mentioning," it reads. "The priority is the Shia, the guards and the rest of the auxiliary forces." It goes on to say, "Reduce the attacks on Sunni areas and drive away the Shia and expel their businesses from our areas."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: As long as the violence continues, and until Iraqi troops can pull their own weight, U.S. plans for withdrawal of up to 30,000 troops this year will have to stay on hold -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
President Bush today renewed his threat to veto a massive emergency spending bill that the president says is full of unnecessary spending. President Bush said Congress must be wise about the way in which it spends the people's money. His veto threat follows the Senate's overwhelming vote to support a spending bill of $119 billion, $14 billion more than the president had asked for to support the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and hurricane relief.
Also tonight, the Congress is finally coming to the realization that there is no national security without strict port security. The House has passed a $7.5 billion port security bill that is being called an important step in homeland security enforcement.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will not yield. I did not interrupt you.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The debate in Congress rages over the best way to protect container ports from attack. And does the bill approved 421-2 in the House go far enough to fix the problem?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does what's real. It does what can be done.
REP. ED MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This bill has a loophole big enough to drive a cargo container filled with nuclear weapons material through it.
PILGRIM: Only 5 percent of freight coming into U.S. ports is inspected. The prospect of a nuclear bomb in a container in a U.S. city is a very real fear. The House bill wants electronic radiation screening equipment at domestic U.S. ports by the end of 2007. The bill also calls for document checks of all containers in overseas ports before the containers come to the United States.
But Representative Ed Markey wants overseas ports to electronically scan all containers before they come to U.S. ports. His amendment calling for that was defeated.
MARKEY: The fatal flaw in the bill is that all of the rest of the security is for the most part paperwork.
PILGRIM: Security analysts say at best the bill is halfway there.
JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY.ORG: It's a step in the right direction. It's not sufficient because the containers that are not going to be inspected I think are the containers that you are most worried about.
PILGRIM: The bill comes just months after the Dubai ports deal raised a firestorm of criticism. Conscious now that public attention remains focused on port security, many in Congress are responding.
REP. DANIEL LUNGREN (R), CALIFORNIA: This bill moves us forward tremendously, and we've got an unbelievably good vote that is a bipartisan vote. So it wasn't a Republican bill or a Democratic bill. It was truly a bipartisan bill.
PILGRIM: Bipartisan interests likely tied to the fall elections.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the White House issued a statement backing the bill, but it says the cost is high, the new domestic screening technology cannot be put in place by September 2007 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Kitty Pilgrim.
Still ahead here, federal government efforts to coordinate the hunt for terrorists and criminals are being slowed by one of the biggest federal government agencies. We'll have that special report.
And border security advocates demanding the United States enforce our borders as effectively as other countries. We'll have that report.
And a public admission by Congressman Patrick Kennedy one day after his car accident on Capitol Hill. We'll have that live report for you from Washington.
Three of the country's top political analysts join me to talk about the abrupt resignation of CIA Director Porter Goss and tumbling poll numbers for not only President Bush, but also for Congress. Stay with us. More coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: It was two years ago that the 9/11 Commission recommended setting up an integrated electronic database for all state, local and federal law enforcement agencies in order to share information. The state of Washington has set up just such a system. It links local police with federal agencies, including the FBI and the Federal Marshals Office. But incredibly, one key department is missing: the Department of Homeland Security.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A revolutionary change is happening in law enforcement. Reams of information is beginning to be made available to police in a single keystroke. At the local level, a program developed by the Navy, LInX, is allowing police departments to exchange information. In the Washington State region, 88 agencies now share databases.
CHIEF TIM KIMSEY, PORT OF SEATTLE POLICE: It's allowing a detective or a field officer to run a name, run a partial plate, vehicle description, any number of minimal bits of information. And when it queries, it's querying the records systems of all of those 88 participating agencies.
TUCKER: LInX works with a separate program developed by the Department of Justice which allows police in Seattle to access case files from five federal agencies: the FBI, Bureau of Prison, the U.S. Marshals, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. All searchable with one request. They call it the Google of law enforcement.
There is one glaring missing piece. There is currently no input or access allowed by the Department of Homeland Security systems.
MIKE DORSEY, NAVAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE SVC.: Law enforcement agencies at a local, county, state and federal level never felt a great deal of comfort sharing large amounts of investigative data and sensitive information, even with one another. We have had to break that paradigm, and LInX has successfully broken that paradigm down.
TUCKER: Apparently so. Just this week, DHS privately committed to participating in the Seattle project, saying it will make its immigration information available on the system within the next 45 to 90 days.
While privacy advocates have raised objections at the local level, the stubbornness of agencies to cooperate has been the biggest obstacle to progress.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TUCKER: Now, the ACLU has made its opposition known at the local level in several states. But when contacted by us to explain their opposition, Lou, the ACLU said they had no one available for comment today.
DOBBS: No one for comment. This leaves a huge gap, though, in those files, Immigration, Customs Enforcement, DEA, Coast Guard.
TUCKER: Exactly. Incredibly, there's a system in place at DHS as well. What's not happening is that system is not plugging into the RDEX (ph) and the LInX systems to allow those officers access to the information.
DOBBS: Let me see if I recall. The Department of Homeland Security was created to bring together agencies in the fight for -- against global terror. You've got to love Washington. Hopefully this will get fixed quickly.
Thank you, Bill Tucker.
A congressional study out today says the United States lags the rest of the world on tough illegal alien enforcement. Border security advocates demanded at protests around the country today that the United States pay as much attention to its illegal alien crisis as other nations pay to theirs.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Border security activists began a weekend series of rallies across the country on Cinco de Mayo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are here because we would like to have our laws enforced.
WIAN: While their opponents chose May Day, revered by communist and anarchists for their marches, these protesters picked the Mexican cultural celebration to send a message to the federal government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they were doing what they were elected to do, the we would not have to be here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not just about, you know, illegal immigration. It's pretty much an invasion. You know, you have -- you know, Mexico has pushed, you know, 12 million people into our country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are here illegally. They are here breaking the law. And yet, they want rights and citizenship and amnesty and everything else. Why can't they wait their turn?
WIAN: Border security activists are demanding the United States treat illegal immigration the way many other countries, including Mexico, already do. Minnesota Congressman James Sensenbrenner today released a study by the Law Library of Congress examining immigration law enforcement and criminal penalties for illegal immigration in six nations across the globe. It shows that Brazil, Egypt, Japan, Mexico, Sweden and Switzerland all have stiffer penalties against illegal immigration than the United States.
In Mexico, for example, illegal entry is a federal crime punishable by up to two years in prison. Moreover, continued illegal presence in Mexico is punishable by another six years in prison.
In the United States, illegal entry to the United States is only a civil violation on the first offense. Even repeat offenders are rarely prosecuted.
Brazil was the only studied country that doesn't criminalize illegal entry. But it does impose penalties of up to eight years in prison for immigrant documentation forgery.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The study found Japan is the most effective at immigration law enforcement. Less than two-tenths of one percent of its population are illegal aliens. Oh, in the United States, it's between 4 and 7 percent -- Lou.
DOBBS: According to best estimates.
WIAN: Right.
DOBBS: It's fascinating. Remember Vicente Fox saying that the Sensenbrenner legislation was said to be terrible, it was horrific, our streets were filled with illegal aliens and their supporters demanding that we not criminalize illegal aliens for entering this country. And yet, Mexico, by my calculation, we are talking about a potential eight years in prison if you violate their border.
WIAN: The Sensenbrenner legislation that Mexico and so many open borders advocates are complaining about doesn't even come close to the penalties that you can get in Mexico for being an illegal alien -- Lou.
DOBBS: I believe the American public is beginning to awaken to the massive propaganda campaign that is being waged on the American public and Congress and the Senate and the disinformation campaign. The utter just nonsense that is being mouthed by these advocates and these activist groups, it is breathtaking.
WIAN: It sure is. It would be a nice change if it's true.
DOBBS: Yes, it would be nice to hear truth on this from the advocates of opening our borders and continuing illegal immigration. But those are pretty hard positions to use truth as a support in reasoning.
Casey, thanks.
Casey Wian.
Amazing.
Now tonight's poll. Do you believe, as many of our government officials say, that it's impossible to secure our borders? Yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Next here, the illegal immigration crisis has environmentalists questioning over-population and open borders. Imagine that. A special report ahead.
And a political revolt is building. And it threatens to sweep out incumbents come November. Bill Schneider will be here to analyze the very latest polls.
And Congressman Patrick Kennedy takes dramatic action after his Capitol Hill car accident. We'll have a live report for you.
And three of the country's top political analysts and strategists will be here to examine those same poll numbers and the sudden resignation of CIA Director Porter Goss.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This nation's illegal alien crisis is now putting enormous pressure on our environment. Environmental groups say the United States cannot continue to absorb the massive numbers of illegal aliens entering the country each year.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The U.S. population is growing at a phenomenal rate. One factor fueling the population boom is illegal immigration. Some of the most outspoken critics of amnesty are not on the right but those protecting the environment.
BRENDA WALKER, BAY AREA COALITION FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM: As an environmentalist, I'm very concerned about the population explosion that the Senate amnesty will foist upon America. We are not -- we're not ready for that.
SYLVESTER: Amnesty would legalize as many as 20 million illegal aliens. They could eventually petition to have extended family members brought in. Add a guest worker program, and their families, and you can see how the population could jump from 300 million today to 450 million in the next 50 years.
Environmental groups worry about a strain on existing resources from land and urban sprawl, to water supply and fuel. And they feel Congress is neglecting this part of the debate.
ALAN KUPER, COMP. U.S. SUSTAINABLE POPULATIONS: How many people do we -- are we able to have without stealing from future generations? You don't hear a word about that.
SYLVESTER: Millions of people around the globe would love to live in the United States. As welcoming as the country would like to be, experts say a porous border system is just not sustainable.
JOSEPH CHAMIE, FMR. DIR., U.N. POPULATION DIV.: If this system were being managed by a private company, we would fire the company. Every few decades we come back to this issue and try to deal with it. And clearly, since 1986, over the last two decades, the system is not operating properly.
SYLVESTER: Most environmentalists do not want the United States to pull out the welcome mat altogether. They want a measured and controlled immigration system. Right now, it's more of a free-for- all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: One of the largest environmental groups, the Sierra Club, has voted to remain neutral on the ongoing immigration debate. But it's an issue many rank and file members are very concerned about. One popular Sierra Club flyer asks the question: "What does population have to do with the environment?" It answers: "Everything."
Pretty telling -- Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
Lisa, thank you very much.
Lisa Sylvester form Washington.
Taking a look now at your thoughts, Chuck in Georgia wrote in about the fact that the U.S. soccer team will not be displaying the American flag on the team bus at the World Cup competition in Germany for security reasons. He writes, "Why should any American be afraid to show his true colors in Germany or anywhere in the world? Once we start doubting our country, all will be lost. Be American and be proud of it."
Janice in Florida, "The majority of the American people agree the border and ports must be secured before we discuss what do with those illegal aliens already here. Is the new meaning of democracy a form of government by the people in which everybody knows how things should be done except those elected to do the job?"
It seems so.
Shirley in Pennsylvania, "When is someone going to tell George Bush that a guest worker program already exists? It's called a work visa and can be obtained through legal channels."
And believe me, on this broadcast we have been reminding our elected officials of that very fact for years.
Albert in Florida, "I find it interesting, Lou, that while the president indicates that those seeking U.S. citizenship should learn to speak English, the U.S. government makes it unnecessary for Hispanics to do so by providing all services in Spanish."
Go figure.
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts later here in the broadcast.
Coming up next, more than 24 hours after his car crash, Congressman Patrick Kennedy is making a public admission and taking public action. We'll have a live report for you.
And new polls show voters are fed up with their elected officials and desperate for political change. A special report and the latest polls coming up next.
And three of the country's top political analysts and strategists join me to talk about today's sudden departure of CIA Director Porter Goss, plunging polls for the president and Congress, and whether (ph) the nation.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congressman Patrick Kennedy today announced he will seek treatment for substance abuse after yesterday's early-morning car crash on Capitol Hill. The son of Senator Ted Kennedy will enter a rehabilitation program at the Mayo Clinic as the investigation widens into how Capitol Police responded to that accident. Brian Todd has the latest for us from Capitol Hill -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the Congressman, in fact, saying that he has been battling an addiction to pain medication and that's why he's going into rehab.
In another big development today, we got a copy of the police report into the accident. This report says that Kennedy, in the early morning hours of yesterday, drove down this street at a fast rate of speed without headlights on, swerved three times, ran into that curb, then swerved in the direction where I'm standing, almost hit a police car right about here, then ran head on into that police barrier.
Now, just a short time ago, Congressman Kennedy addressed what he recalled or rather didn't recall about the accident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PATRICK KENNEDY (D), RHODE ISLAND: But in all candor, the incident on Wednesday evening concerns me greatly. I simply do not remember getting out of bed, being pulled over by the police, or being cited for three driving infractions. That's not how I want to live my life and it's not how I want to represent the people of Rhode Island.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TODD: An important note to bring out here is that Kennedy, throughout this whole ordeal, has denied that he consumed alcohol at any point in the hours leading up to this accident. But this police report does say in the section entitled "contributing circumstances," quote "speed, alcohol influence, driving on the wrong side of the street and driver inattention."
Again, Kennedy denying any alcohol use. There's an investigation going on into to whether he was at any restaurants or bars in this area. He denies that he was. But we are also addressing questions this afternoon about the Capitol Hill police's handling of this incident.
Through our sources and through a letter that was sent from the head of the police union to the acting chief, we know that the responding officers on the scene were not allowed to give Kennedy a sobriety test, that they were told to leave the scene and that Kennedy was driven home.
Now, late this afternoon, we got a copy of a police statement which reads in part, quote, "it has been determined that in the initial stages, supervisors employed improper judgment. Corrective administrative and personnel action has been taken."
A top Congressional source tells CNN that the watch commander on duty during those hours that been reassigned. Don't know the name of the watch commander. We're told, Lou, that he has been reassigned. So there are two investigations going on right now: one into the accident itself, the other into the police's handling of it.
DOBBS: Brian, thank you very much. The latest, Brian Todd in Washington.
Well, President Bush's poll numbers are sinking as a rising number of Republicans criticize the president's performance. A new AP-Ipsos poll shows the president's approval rating now only 33 percent. That's the lowest approval rating for the president in this poll, ever. And Congress is doing even worse, its approval rating lower at 25 percent.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): You have probably heard that President Bush is dropping in the polls. The latest evidence comes from the Associated Press-Ipsos poll. It shows Bush's job approval falling from 40 percent in February, just after the State of the Union speech, to 33 percent now.
Think that's bad? Here's something worse. Approval of Congress has dropped from 35 to 25 percent. Why? Oh let's see. Congress can't pass immigration reform. They can't pass a budget. They can't even control their own spending. Ethics? Don't get us started: Jack Abramoff, Tom DeLay, Duke Cunningham, and now a Democrat, William Jefferson, under investigation. Can Congress do something about gas prices? Why, yes, a $100 rebate for all Americans. That proposal got laughed off the agenda.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: What does $100 buy you? Two tanks of gas, if you're lucky? Is that the best we can do in Washington, D.C., and then say, adios, voters; see you in November; we have taken care of the problem? Well, we certainly have not.
SCHNEIDER: There's mounting evidence that voters may take out their anger on Republicans this fall. It's their Congress, has been for most of the past 12 years. A majority of Americans say they would like to turn Congress over to the Democrats. Just over a third want Republicans to stay in charge.
Some Republicans see the tsunami warning.
REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: I happen to believe we're losing our moral authority to lead this place.
SCHNEIDER: They are also losing their base. While 70 percent of Republicans continue to approve of the job President Bush is doing, only about half that number approval of the job Congress is doing. More than 60 percent are down on Congress. And those are Republicans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Has Congress' approval rating ever been this low before? Why, yes, in 1994, which was the last time angry voters overthrew the majority party in Congress -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, thank you very much for those uplifting numbers and analysis. Bill Schneider, as always, thank you.
Ed Rollins joins us now, Republican political consultant, former White House political director under President Reagan; Michael Goodwin, columnist for the "New York Daily News"; and Robert Zimmerman, Democratic strategist.
Robert, let's start with all of the Democrats caught in scandal, and dominating the headlines. We'll start with Patrick Kennedy.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, let's start with Patrick Kennedy.
DOBBS: The only reason I did that, Robert, is the Republicans are having such a tough time, I wanted to figure out something to give you to consider.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, as you always give all of us something to consider, Lou, but Patrick Kennedy's story is a personal tragedy.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
ZIMMERMAN: I would not immerse this in the Abramoff scandal or the failure of the House Republicans to move on lobbying reform or anything of -- there are scandals that are parallel in our ... (CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: So I think it's important to put it in perspective, but it's a terrible personal tragedy.
DOBBS: We decided to give a minute and a half of this broadcast tonight to the story simply because he is a person of considerable repute in terms of the Kennedy family name as well, but as to whether or not it's worth about 24 hours of cable news time, I'm not sure. What do you think?
ZIMMERMAN: You know, obviously, it's sensational. It's going to attract tabloid attention. I wonder if it has longer legs than the Porter Goss story. And that would be a sad commentary on the times we're in if, in fact, it did attract more attention.
DOBBS: Well, the idea that Porter Goss would take up some attention would be, I think, pretty reasonable today. I can't remember when an official that high has resigned, Michael, not had a replacement and there is really no strong suggestion as to what the reasons were for that abrupt resignation.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, the CIA is a mystery itself and, of course, so is his resignation now. He was having a hard time there. Those stories seem to have gone away as of late. But now there have been some suggestions of scandal within the agency.
So, whether it's fair to tie him to that, we don't know at this point. It's very early, but it's a surprise. But, you know, on a Friday afternoon, bad news. So, something is going on there, I would suspect.
DOBBS: And has been for some time because it can't be a coincidence, as Michael correctly points out, that this comes down on a Friday afternoon.
ED ROLLINS, FMR. WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIR.: First of all, I want to say as a Republican, thank God for the Kennedys. They always give us a little bit of diversions. And the other thing is thank goodness there wasn't any water anywhere nearby, so he didn't end up in a wading pool or something.
But at the end of the day, I think that the CIA is coming under the same scrutiny that these guys that paid off Cunningham and others -- what I call Hookergate is coming. And the number three guy in the CIA was also involved.
A lot of these defense appropriations -- what they call the black box money, which is about 40 percent of all the money that's spent out of the defense budget, goes to secret CIA defense appropriations and a lot of -- so I think there's a bigger story to come.
I'm not in any way, shape or form saying Porter Goss was involved in that. I just think there is -- the number three guy is really coming under scrutiny, and he was Porter Goss' guy. ZIMMERMAN: You know, I think there's also -- I think the story is even bigger than the CIA. The really compelling story that is unfolding is that almost five years after 2001, the Bush administration has failed to put together any sort of comprehensive or effective effort to combat terrorism or secure our borders and ports.
It's not just the Porter Goss story at the CIA, it's the fact that Donald Rumsfeld yesterday said that he wasn't in the intelligence business.
DOBBS: That was a rather remarkable statement.
ZIMMERMAN: Or for that matter, the new book that's out, "Open Target" by Clark Kent Ervin, which here he was, the inspector general of Homeland Security, who reports that the White House was not taking either port security or combating terrorism seriously.
DOBBS: Well Clark Kent is straightforward in this book. And it is a compelling read, "Open Target," about the failures of Homeland Security in particular, but the Bush administration itself, as you say. It is not something you want to read if you are going to be concerned mightily on this issue because it will unsettle you to see the failures.
GOODWIN: Well, I just think politically, you know, as the numbers in the polls show, the president is in trouble, the Republicans are in trouble, but then every time the Democrats open their mouth -- and I think that's where this election is headed now.
Right now the Republicans are going to get slaughtered. But the Democrats haven't really said anything, proposed any solutions, whether it's Iraq, Iran or terrorism here at home. So I think that still the election is very much up in the air, although things look terrible right now for the Republicans.
ROLLINS: The interesting thing from my perspective -- I won't talk about the politics -- we can't give rid of Rumsfeld because we're in the middle of the war. Whether he screwed it up or what have you, we're in the middle of a war.
DOBBS: Right.
ROLLINS: But yet we can let the CIA director go in the middle of a terrorism war, that hasn't run effectively. Go on a Friday afternoon and pretend like it's no big deal. So I think there's another story there. I think Robert's point is we haven't got the intelligence community functioning effectively yet. Or if they are functioning effectively, it's certainly not getting to the level it needs to be getting to.
ZIMMERMAN: One of the strength of being a Democrat over these past six years is that we're not exactly suffering from overconfidence. So as a consequence...
DOBBS: I don't think that's a problem for Republicans right now either. ZIMMERMAN: But besides, look, in terms of a Democratic strategy, the first thing I'd recommend is hiring Ed. But the second point...
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: The second point, though, is that the issue is the timing of the Democratic message. Newt Gingrich announced his message, his Contract With America six weeks before election day, to keep the focus on Clinton. And the question is going to be the timing the Democrats use for announcing their message.
GOODWIN: And what is it.
ZIMMERMAN: I don't want to give away the surprise.
ROLLINS: It's what I've been saying for several weeks, and it's getting even worse. Republicans now are starting to basically defect from both the president and from the Republicans. And they are not going to vote for Democrats; they're just not going to vote. And you are starting to see conservatives moving away, and that's when you really start seeing some serious danger signs.
DOBBS: First, a political observation, one, is that I'm still not convinced that no matter which way the electorate moves, where do working men and women in this country, our middle class, go, Democrat or Republican, because I don't think it's clear that either part gives one damn about their interests whatsoever over those of corporate America or special interests.
But the larger issue here to me, and I would love to hear your thoughts on it, is that this is a government that is not working. The oversight that should be provided by Republicans and Democrats alike, whether it's on the war on terror, whether it's intelligence, whether it is our domestic programs, is not happening. And the leadership from this White House, it is so clear that the American people are frustrated and disappointed, and in some cases frightened by the direction in which this country is headed.
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.
GOODWIN: And I think it's probably only going to get worse, because no one has solutions to these things. I mean, you look at the Iranian situation, I think that's a real bell ringer for everybody, because no one has a solution to that right now.
ROLLINS: And equally as important, no one views this president today as a leader. His strength in 2004 was that he was viewed as a much stronger leader than Kerry.
ZIMMERMAN: That's exactly right.
ROLLINS: Today, people don't view him as more of a leader.
ZIMMERMAN: You know, what's interesting, though. I know it's an easy position to take that no one has any answers, and I am not going to defend the Democrats for their behavior when they were in the majority, because that's why they are in the minority, because of their lack of ability to put their message across.
But the most compelling issue this year is having -- restoring checks and balances to the government. And that's probably the strongest message the Democrats have in terms of returning to a majority in the House and Senate.
DOBBS: Gentlemen, thank you very much.
Robert, thank you very much. Michael. Ed.
Coming up next, the president led the country through crisis, gave the nation hope in the face of adversity. Jonathan Alter will be here to discuss his important new book, "The Defining Moment: FDR's 100 Days and the Triumph of Hope."
And "Heroes," our weekly tribute to our men and women in uniform. Tonight, we meet Marine Captain Christopher Bronzi. His bravery in battle earned him the Silver Star. His story is coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A new opinion poll shows 73 percent of us believe the country is heading in the wrong direction. In 1933, America was definitely going in the wrong direction, then in the grip of the Great Depression. Yet a new president, Franklin Roosevelt, turned the nation's mood around, and indeed led the nation in a new direction.
Jonathan Alter examines the man and his time in his new book, "The Defining Moment: FDR's 100 Days and the Triumph of Hope." Jonathan Alter joins us now.
I love, first of all, you being here, but I love the word "hope" in a title. That's a wonderful thing we don't hear many people talk about these days.
JONATHAN ALTER, AUTHOR: Well, that's the kind of thing, Lou, that FDR was just a master at: Taking people who had given up all hope -- the country was curled up in the fetal position; 80 percent unemployment in some areas; the banks were all closed; we were on a barter economy; people literally think it's the end of capitalism -- not just a few people, but leaders -- and the end of democracy.
And Roosevelt is told by a visitor in his first week, you will either be one of our greatest presidents if you succeed, or one of our worst presidents if you fail. He said, if I fail, I'll be our last president. That's how grim things were in 1933.
And yet through leadership -- and that's what it is about today, that's what it was about then -- he turned it around.
DOBBS: It's one of the reasons I think that your book is so important, so timely. Because not only examining obviously one of the greatest presidents to ever sit in the White House, but to look at a president who took on so much in the way of challenge, who with fear permeating the nation talked about fear of fear as the first thing to rid ourselves of. And in this day and age, it seems like fear and anxiety, you can call it what you will, is -- the nation is suffused with it, and leadership is one of the things that we are not hearing from this White House, we're not hearing about leadership from this Congress, from either party, in my opinion. And the contrast with the era that you describe and the man you describe is amazing.
ALTER: I have to say, it did strike me a lot, the contrast. Because sometimes today you feel like you're hearing the only thing we have to use is fear itself. And actually, in Roosevelt's time, there was a lot to fear. In some ways, that line was sort of nonsense, but it worked like any theatrical act. It worked to help people snap out of their mental depression, even though the economic depression wasn't cured for many years. And his ability to communicate and then to follow it up with action.
He used that word action five times in that inaugural address. And his view was you had to keep working the problem. You couldn't just say, oh, we've got all these bad problems and blame somebody else. You had to come up with solutions.
DOBBS: Let's show our audience the reference you are making, in which you write -- and quote Roosevelt -- "The country needs, and unless I mistake its temper, the country demands bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it; if it fails, admit if frankly and try another. But above all, try something."
The fear of making a mistake, the fear of admitting a mistake on the part of officials in Washington is calcified. The military doesn't -- our generals don't take responsibility for an insurgency that persists despite having been called frozen dead-enders by Secretary Rumsfeld in the initial stages. The fact that we are losing more than 2,400 Americans there, and being told we don't have a silver bullet to deal with IEDs, or being told that we can carry on a huge budget deficit in perpetuity.
Our trade deficits, that amount to trillions of dollars. No one seems willing to say we are taking the wrong tact, despite the fact that everyone watching and listening to you right now is telling every pollster surveilling the country that Americans are frustrated and believe strongly we are headed in the wrong direction.
ALTER: The reason I called this book "The Defining Moment" is this was a moment in American history when a president first really responded to what you are talking about. And before that, it was like the people are in trouble or we've got these problems, it's a local responsibility, or maybe voluntary responsibility.
After that, it was, no, we in this country expect the president to do something about our problems, or at least try to do something. And if it does not work, then make mid-course corrections. It's the failure of those mid-course corrections in this administration and the failure of performance -- because I think too often they put loyalty ahead of performance.
DOBBS: Right.
ALTER: FDR put performance ahead of loyalty. Whether you are leading a business, a non-profit, PTA, you've got to put performance first, as Franklin Roosevelt did.
DOBBS: And as you pointed out, he believed in that in just about every aspect, including his cabinet.
It is, see that great old big picture, Jonathan -- the defining moment. We thank you for being here. Jonathan Alter, terrific book.
ALTER: Thanks so much, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Still ahead here in "Heroes," the remarkable story of Marine Captain Christopher Bronzi. He put his life on the line for his outnumbered men during a desperate battle in one of Iraq's most dangerous cities in one of its most dangerous battles. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Lou.
We are covering several important stories, including some late developments we're getting in on the sudden and stunning resignation of the CIA director, Porter Goss.
Also in the CIA leak investigation involving former Cheney aide Lewis "Scooter" Libby, we've learned Libby intends to call Karl Rove as a defense witness.
And do you think President Bush's poll numbers are down? Just wait until you hear what our Bill Schneider has learned about the sinking numbers of the Republican-led Congress. All of that, Lou, coming up right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much. Have you read Jonathan Alter's new book on FDR, "The Defining Moment, The First 100 Days"?
BLITZER: I haven't read it but I've heard excellent things about it.
DOBBS: It is a terrific book. As a matter of fact, Jonathan was just telling me as he was leaving here that FDR managed to secure the borders, and under considerably more difficult circumstances than we face.
BLITZER: FDR managed to do a lot of incredible things.
DOBBS: Absolutely, as Jonathan points out in this terrific new book. Thank you very much, Wolf. We look forward to your show. And now "Heroes," our weekly tribute to our brave men and women in uniform serving around the world. Tonight we honor the leadership of Marine Captain Christopher Bronzi. His courage and bravery in battle against insurgents in Iraq have earned him the country's third highest award for heroism in combat.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, save your ammo until you've got a target.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): April 6, 2004, the Marines of Golf Company were badly outnumbered. Part of the 2nd Battalion 4th Marines, they had been sent to Ramadi to put down the rising insurgency.
Captain Christopher Bronzi was the Gold Company commander, confident his young Marines were equal to the task but concerned about mounting casualties.
CAPT. CHRISTOPHER BRONZI, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I was just trying to keep them focused on the fight at hand because every individual Marine, their combat meant something.
VILES: As Bronzi led his men into the city, they were surrounded, outnumbered, at risk of being pinned down by small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades. The fire fight would last for two days.
BRONZI: I ultimately wound up echeloning my entire company into the fight. And because the fight grew, you know, the numbers vary. I know the amount of enemy that we confirmed that we killed was well over 300.
VILES: In the middle of the shooting, Bronzi boldly put himself in the line of fire, leading a group of Marines into an exposed street to recover the body of a fallen comrade.
BRONZI: I was very proud of my marines, especially with the intensity of the combat, how they performed. The entire company was in the fight on the first day. That night they cleaned up their weapons, they restocked their ammo, and they went right back outside the gate the day for virtually the same scenario.
VILES: Bronzi credits his men, but the secretary of the Navy has now credited Bronzi for his leadership of those men. His citation describes "zealous initiative, courageous actions, and exceptional dedication to duty."
BRONZI: That was the most professionally rewarding experience of my life because I feel like I saw the Marine Corps in its finest hour, at least my little piece of the Marine Corps.
VILES: Peter Viles for CNN reporting. (END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Captain Bronzi returned home safely in September of 2004 and continues to serve the nation in the United States Marine Corps.
Still ahead, the results of our poll and we'll have some more of your thoughts. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Results of our poll tonight, 95 percent of you do not believe, as many of our government officials say, that it is impossible to secure our borders.
Taking a look now at more of your thoughts, Russ in New York: "Lou, when it comes to Mexico's drug policy, it seems like the Fox is in the half-way hen house."
Fred in Utah: "Lou, when did the Senate substitute jelly for backbone? Is seems that most of our senators don't have the backbone to stand up to big business for immigration, big oil, Iraq, or any of the hard issues."
Mary In Tennessee: "Lou, I am sure the U.S. Congress will be happy that the Minutemen will build a fence along our southern border. It will give them sort of a 'home away from home' since straddling the fence is what they do best."
And Gerri in New York: "Lou, I'm an American of Mexican descent. I find it arrogant that those who have entered this country illegally have the gall to demand that we change our laws. If you don't want to become part of our culture and language and give back to our nation or obey our laws, including immigration laws, then don't come in. And no, these people do not speak for me."
Thanks for your thoughts. Send them to us at LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here on the broadcast receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." And we'll also be sending along to you a little book with the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, just to keep everything in reference.
Thanks for being with us tonight. We hope you have a very pleasant weekend. Please join us here Monday. And among my guests Ray McGovern, the former CIA analyst who confronted Defense Secretary Rumsfeld this week over his reason for going to war in Iraq.
For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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