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Nancy Grace
FBI Adds Jeffs to 10 Most Wanted List
Aired May 08, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. A massive manhunt for one of the FBI`s 10 Most Wanted. Tonight, joining the ranks of Osama bin Laden and James J. Bulger, fundamentalist religious leader Warren Jeffs, accused rapist and polygamist. They call it plural marriage, multiple wives, while the rest of the world calls it a felony. Warren Jeffs, wanted for sex crimes involving minors, reported to have forced marriage to girls as young as 14. Reward money soars tonight to $110,000.
And tonight: What`s with Rhode Island representative Patrick Kennedy? After crashing his car into a cement barrier on Capitol Hill, 2:45 AM, he`s checked into the Mayo Clinic, claiming he doesn`t remember a thing.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Representative Patrick Kennedy embroiled in yet another scandal, this time, 2:45 AM, Kennedy plows his Mustang convertible into a Capitol police barrier. And then guess what? No breathalyzer, no sobriety test, no reciting the alphabet, no hop on one foot, nothing! Kennedy blames it all on prescription drugs.
But first tonight, all-points bulletin, APB, FBI and law enforcement across the country on an intense hunt for Warren Jeffs, the newest member of the FBI`s 10 Most Wanted, Jeffs, head of an offshoot of the Mormon church, the long-established FLDS, wanted for sex crimes on minors, the reward now $110,000.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI has placed Warren Steed Jeffs on its top 10 Most Wanted fugitives list.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Warren Jeffs is being sought for the charge of sexual conduct with a minor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeffs has been charged in the states of Arizona and Utah. Though he is not considered armed himself, he is believed in the company of armed bodyguards.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hope that this action today will result in the arrest of Warren Jeffs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no doubt in our mind this individual needs to be brought to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to Michelle Sigona, "America`s Most Wanted" correspondent. Explain to me how a member of the offshoot, the FLDS, of the Mormon church, has somehow landed right beside Osama bin Laden on the top 10 Most Wanted list.
MICHELLE SIGONA, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Well, the thing about this guy, Nancy, is that he promotes sexual intercourse with minors. He is just downright and dirty, let me tell you! And not only that, but he just has so much influence over so many people, so many of his followers, believed to be up to about 10,000, as of this point.
GRACE: Well, I know that polygamists, as they call it, multiple wives, plural wives, range in the up to about $100,000 (SIC). The Mormon church has disassociated itself with them, but they continue. And it`s not just about plural wives, Michelle. It`s my understanding that this man, Warren Jeffs, controls an empire close to $100 million.
SIGONA: You are absolutely right about that, Nancy. You know, the sad part about it is, is that all of his followers are forced to give 10 percent of their salary. But not only that, in addition, oh, like, every month, every month or two, he also asks every single family, the elders of the family to give them an extra $1,000, coming from each family. So he`s sitting right now -- last Saturday, when I was talking to the investigators who are in house at "America`s Most Wanted," they said he`s sitting on $200 million right now. He can go anywhere that he wants. He has unlimited money. He has unlimited bodyguards and unlimited followers, as of this time.
GRACE: But Michelle, here`s what I`m not getting. Child molestation and child rape happens every day, and the perpetrators do not end up on "America`s Most Wanted." So why the diff?
SIGONA: Well, this guy, what you have to think is his ability to brainwash so many people. You think that he has his -- the children in his communities -- he doesn`t even send them to public schools, he has his own schools that he brings them into. And so about two to three hours a day are spent reading, writing, mathematics, things of that nature. And then the rest of it is spent listening to audiotapes, spent listening -- you know, watching videos of him. He`s brainwashing these children. He`s brainwashing the adults. He`s brainwashing the people of his community. And as a result, they`re following him, and it`s absolutely disgusting!
GRACE: Well, there are tens of thousands followers of Warren Jeffs. He is the self-appointed prophet -- in other words, speaking directly to God, Jeffs says -- of the FLDS, the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Repeat. The Mormons have disassociated themselves from the FLDS. And again, this is not just about polygamy. This guy controls about a $100 million empire.
Let me get this straight, Michelle -- Michelle`s with us from "America`s Most Wanted."
SIGONA: Sure.
GRACE: In this community, the homes, the land the apartments, everything is owned by a council, like a commune, which Jeffs controls.
SIGONA: That`s right. Everything is owned by him. That way, whenever he feels the need to just pack someone up and ship them out, that`s exactly what he does because he has that power, unfortunately.
GRACE: Well, maybe Warren Jeffs is just misunderstood. We got to look at his childhood, people! I mean, his father had 75 widows at the time he died at age 92, 65 children shed up to mourn him.
If you want to know more about Warren Jeffs, we got it straight from the horse`s mouth. Take a listen to one of his sermons.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
WARREN JEFFS, FLDS: Many young men, when they receive their first wife, they`re just so untrained, the woman, if she`s not careful, will be overbearing and always ask permission for what she wants. And ladies, build up your husband by being submissive. That`s how you give your children the success. You will want your children to be obedient and submissive to righteous living.
You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth or rude and filthy, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, he could easily be talking about me or a number of my staff -- uncouth, unkindly, not behaving correctly.
I want to go out now to a special guest joining us. Her name is Flora Jessop. She`s joining us tonight from Arizona. She escaped the FLDS and she now helps other young girls to escape. Miss Jessop, thank you for being with us.
FLORA JESSOP, ESCAPED FROM POLYGAMIST SECT AS A CHILD: Thank you for having us and helping tell the story.
GRACE: Flora, what is your reaction to discovering Warren Jeffs, the leader of the FLDS, is now on the 10 Most Wanted FBI list?
JESSOP: I think it`s fabulous.
GRACE: Why?
JESSOP: What does worry me is what they`re going to do when they catch him. The charges against him, at this point, are not that serious.
GRACE: Well, you know, I think you`re right because when you take a look at these two charges, apparently, he can get off, at the max, to two years on each charge.
Specifically, let`s go out to Sheriff Kirk Smith, the Washington County sheriff. Explain to us what the charges are against Warren Jeffs, leader of this polygamist group, and how much time he could do.
SHERIFF KIRK SMITH, WASHINGTON COUNTY: Well, Nancy, my understanding is he has been charged in Utah with two counts of first degree rape as an accomplice, which is aiding and abetting and performing the marriages. I honestly don`t know what the maximum he can do on that. But those are first degree felonies. In Utah, they`re very serious crimes. So you know, the charges that we`ve got here are serious, and he would do some serious jail time, if convicted.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFS: The prophet makes -- gets a revelation on who you should marry. He decides who everybody marries. So I was called in and said that he had a wife that I was to marry, and a short time after, we were married. And that`s the way life started for us as a pair.
When we were teenage age -- actually, just 19 just going on 20 -- then I was assigned this woman as my first wife. Eight or ten years later, maybe a little longer than that, I was assigned a second wife.
We never critique our leader. He is -- he is God, in our eyes. And how can he possibly make a mistake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s as if the Taliban -- part of the Taliban had been transplanted to American soil and been flourishing there since the 1930s. And that`s exactly what it is. True believers in this town are not allowed to talk to outsiders. They`re not allowed to watch television, read newspapers. They`re not allowed to do anything that the prophet doesn`t want them to because wives -- women and children, wives and children, are property of the church. They don`t belong to a husband. They don`t belong to themselves, certainly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most Wanted." Michelle, what led up to this particular indictment?
SIGONA: Well, it was back in June 2005 when Jeffs was indicted by authorities. They actually had to do a lot of investigating. And actually, his brother was helping him in that matter, and Warren`s brother was actually indicted November 2005 for hiding him out. But it just -- you know, a lot of folks were coming out of the FLDS community and -- you know, because he will shut them out if they mess up in any small, minor way.
GRACE: Here`s what the FBI had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI has placed Warren Steed Jeffs on its top 10 Most Wanted fugitives list. As you are aware, Jeffs has been charged in the states of Arizona and Utah with various criminal violations, including sexual conduct with a minor, conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a child, and rape as an accomplice. Additionally, Jeffs has been charged federally in both the district of Utah and the district of Arizona with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Warren Steed Jeffs was placed on the FBI`s 10 Most Wanted fugitive list. As many of you are aware, Warren Jeffs is being sought for charges of sexual conduct with a minor.
Since the program`s inception, 147 fugitives have been captured or located as a result of citizen cooperation. The deputy director of the FBI selects individuals for inclusion on the top 10 list, and the nominees are submitted by each field office. The criteria used for that selection is if the fugitive is considered to be dangerous and if nationwide publicity will assist in the apprehension of the fugitive. We hope that this action today will result in the arrest of Warren Jeffs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The FBI`s 10 Most Wanted -- there you see Jeffs, Osama bin Laden, Sanchez, Gerena, James Bulger, Orazco, Goldberg, Fisher, Godwin and Webb.
Now, it`s quite a feat to get on the top 10 Most Wanted, Michelle. The charges, at least two of them, go to the fact that he arranged marriages with underage girls and essentially aided and abetted statutory rape. Now, I think it`s a lot deeper than that, what has led to him being named the top 10 Most Wanted.
SIGONA: Absolutely. It is a lot deeper, Nancy, as you mentioned. And you know, it`s really important for shows like yours and so many shows to bring attention to this. I mean, this is a man who goes from house to house and takes away this man and wife -- you know, their child, their 14, 15, 16-year-old little girl, takes them out to an older man and says, OK, you`re married, and does this, you know, ceremony and actually marries them. And investigators have told me that it`s safe to say that Warren Jeffs has actually married hundreds and hundreds of couples, hundreds of men to underage girls. That`s what really makes him so dangerous, is that he`s out there, he`s promoting sexual intercourse with minors and he`s making it seem like it`s OK. But it`s not.
GRACE: And to Flora Jessop, who escaped a polygamist lifestyle and being married into a marriage at a young age, there is also the concept of reassignment, correct, Flora?
JESSOP: Yes.
GRACE: Explain.
JESSOP: Well, we refer to them as "velcro marriages." And what he`s doing is taking the families of men he doesn`t consider to be worthy of having the priesthood and replacing them with other families and kicking the men out of the community.
GRACE: Hold on. Let me just break that down, Flora. What I`m understanding you to say is, if one of the followers falls out with Warren Jeffs, he will take a wife and the children away from that follower and basically give them, as if they were furniture, to another man within the religion.
JESSOP: Yes.
GRACE: And everybody just goes along with that.
JESSOP: Unbelievably, yes.
GRACE: Why?
JESSOP: When you take children, babies, and you teach a baby not to cry by the 18 months of age, you essentially can own that person. And this is what they do.
GRACE: Do the girls get any schooling at all?
JESSOP: Very, very little actual schooling. They get indoctrination.
GRACE: What happens if you try to leave?
JESSOP: If the girls try and leave, they`re hunted.
GRACE: To special agent Keith Bennett with the FBI out of the Phoenix jurisdiction. Agent Bennett, thank you for being with us. Sir, it`s just hard for so many of us to accept this has really gone on for so long within our own country. I mean, we see these horrible pictures of how women are treated in other countries, like Afghanistan, by the Taliban, and so forth. But here in our own country, we turn a blind eye to this behavior. How has this case bubbled up to the surface, Agent?
SPECIAL AGENT KEITH BENNETT, FBI, PHOENIX: Well, certainly, our involvement became aware after the charges were brought in Mohave County here in Arizona, the sexual conduct with a minor charges. Once it was determined he was out of state, then unlawful flight to avoid prosecution charges were brought, which we call UFAP, and that`s when the FBI became involved.
GRACE: And of course, as of this airing, we have no idea where this guy is. He had apparently hidden out with a brother for a period of time. Ellie (ph), wasn`t the brother caught with $140,000 cash?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, exactly.
GRACE: A bunch of...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A bunch of pre-paid phone cards, debit cards, some of Jeffs`s -- what is -- some of his papers...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Warren Jeffs`s identification papers, and so forth. So tonight, Agent Bennett, what`s your best guess, if that`s all it, at to where Warren Jeffs is?
BENNETT: Well, certainly, we`re aware of the fact that he has a number of followers in different locations, different states throughout the country. And we believe that he travels between these locations. That`s part of the emphasis with this top 10 designation, is seeking help from the public to help us to identify where this man might be so that we can arrest him.
GRACE: Well, we know that Colorado and Hildale are two bases. That`s clear. But then we believe that he has safe houses in Utah, Arizona, Mexico, Texas, Colorado, even up to British Columbia. This guy could go anywhere. And again, Agent, once these indictments were handed down, isn`t it true that a caravan, a virtual caravan of vehicles, SUVs, left the compound. He could have been hiding in any one of those.
BENNETT: Certainly, we`ve had information that he does travel by caravan, and that`s something that we are attuned to and that we -- all of our investigators have been alerted for. As you indicated, there are a number of different locations where he could be, where his followers are located. And we know that he has a tendency to gravitate to those areas. So certainly, that`s where our investigation is focusing. But once again, we are soliciting help from the public, as far as trying to identify where this man might be.
GRACE: The reward tonight up to $110,000. Jeffs apparently travels with a number of loyal and armed bodyguards. He also wears glasses. He is referred to as "Prophet." He has an estimated 10,000 followers or more. He is considered tonight armed and dangerous.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Addendum." A forensic dentist says remains pulled from a Wisconsin river belong to 21-year-old Christine Rudy, Rudy six months pregnant at time of her death, part of Christine`s left jaw the only remains available for testing. Twenty-three-year-old Shawn Rudy tonight charged with two counts murder one in the death of his wife, Christine, and his unborn baby child, will be in court May 16.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The sole leader of the FLDS, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, commonly known as the Mormons -- this is an offshoot of the Mormons. Repeat the Mormons have disassociated with the FLDS.
I want to go back to Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most Wanted." Explain to me how this group, the FLDS, continues to try to associate itself with the Mormons. I mean, their history is very, very long.
SIGONA: It is very long, and it`s much, much different. And actually, when they branched off from the Mormon religion, you know, a while back, and basically it was when Warren Jeffs took over, and that`s when he started to perform the marriages and he started to perform his own kind of religion. And that`s really where it branched off, and since then, it`s just -- he`s been on a roll.
GRACE: Now, let me get this straight. His father, Prophet Rulon Jeffs, broke apart. He was the so-called prophet for 15 years. Now, in this belief, the church believes that God speaks directly to the prophet and the prophet then tells the flock. In this religion, in this sect -- there`s Rulon -- thank you, Elizabeth -- the prophet is the only one that can perform marriages. So if you want to get married, this and practically every other transaction is performed through this one person. And also, in this religion, husbands apparently -- the only way a woman can get to heaven is if her husband invites her. OK. So much for me.
But -- so the father, Rulon, dies at the age of, as I said, 92 -- 75 widows, 65 children to mourn him. Jeffs takes over. Now, let me get this straight with you with. When Jeffs took over, Michelle, didn`t he get rid of a council of about seven others, and now it`s one man, one rule? In other words, he is the alpha, the omega, the beginning, the end of this church.
JESSOP: He is everything that this church has, unfortunately. And that`s really what makes it pretty scary, to tell you the truth. And also, when his father did die and he took over, he married pretty much all of his father`s wives, except for two of them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no doubt in our mind that this individual needs to be brought to justice. He`s always been considered one of our priorities in this state. The benefit that we get now is that now we have a national perspective. Now we have individuals throughout our country and throughout the world who will be able to assist us in locating this individual.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The leader of a splinter group of the Mormon church now on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list, right up there with Osama bin Laden.
Let`s go out to a reporter with "The Spectrum." Joining us now, Patrice St. Germain. Patrice, thank you for being with us. Right now, Warren Jeffs is facing charges that he arranged marriages with two little girls. It`s just the tip of the iceberg, true?
PATRICE ST. GERMAIN, "THE SPECTRUM": Yes.
GRACE: Explain.
ST. GERMAIN: Well, there are other charges, we believe, that are going to be coming out of Mohave County. They have made public the ones where they were able to make him a fugitive from justice. But their belief is once people come out, there will be more charges. It`s just a matter of time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN JEFFS, FBI`S 10 MOST WANTED: After the flood, we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham`s life as he had married a wife of that seed.
And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the Devil should have a representation upon the Earth, as well as God. So, Ham`s wife that was preserved on the ark was a negro of the seed of Cain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, good lord in heaven.
To Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most Wanted," well, can`t the seed pass through the flood with a girl over 14? Would that be possible? Or maybe even over 16, or 18, or 21? And why have local officials turned a blind eye for so long?
SIGONA: Well, the problem with that particular area is what a lot of the investigators and FBI agents have told me, is that the investigators are actually followers of Jeffs` within his community. So that`s why it`s really been hard, you know, to track him down and to follow him down, because a lot of times they`re kind of protecting him, unfortunately.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at some fast facts regarding FLDS. Again, this is a splinter group of the Mormon church. They have disassociated themselves with FLDS.
Number one, families are invited into Heaven only -- females are invited into Heaven only by satisfied husbands. Jeffs is the only person who can perform marriages. He assigns wives to their husbands. Members of the sect are not welcome in Mormon congregations.
Mormons found practicing polygamy excommunicated. Jeffs allegedly has more than 50 wives. Now, that may or may not include the 73 he inherited from his father. And it goes on: A man must be married to three or more wives to go to Heaven.
Up to 10,000 members of this cult across the USA and Canada. It allows for reassignment. If you do not please the prophet, your wife and children can be taken from you and literally given to another man.
Women must dress with entire body covered, from collarbone down, including feet. People, no sandals. Followers never expose skin below the collar, above the wrist or above the ankle. Children home-schooled or attend a church school until junior high, when they begin to work in community on missions or get married.
Dr. Patricia Saunders, is this a cult?
DR. PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, Nancy, I think it is, if you define a cult as a group of people who are psychologically controlled by a strong authority figure who uses fear, coercion and deception to control them. This is a guy who said to his people, "You can`t disagree with the prophet because you`ll lose your salvation."
GRACE: Or you can`t leave.
Take a listen to the so-called self-appointed prophet, Warren Jeffs, now an esteemed member of the FBI`s 10 most wanted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFS: Dear wives, realizing happiness is only from being a part and a strength to your husband. Get close to him; confide in him. Don`t let your former family be your total confidence. It should be your new husband. Turn to him with a full heart, and give him the opportunity to lead you right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us now is a special guest from Baltimore, Maryland, Joanne Sudor. She is the attorney for Brent Jeffs, who claims he was molested by his uncle, the same guy, the so-called prophet, Warren Jeffs.
Attorney Sudor, thank you for being with us. What happened to your client?
JOANNE SUDOR, ATTORNEY FOR JEFF`S NEPHEW: Well, unfortunately, it`s not a isolated case. Those allegations are sexual abuse allegations, not too dissimilar to the sex abuse cases against priests of the Catholic Church.
GRACE: Why are these young boys, young men driven out of the FLDS?
SUDOR: OK. Well, that involves a different case that I`m one of the attorneys on. We believe -- and the evidence is very clear -- that in order for the priested men to have three to 70 wives for themselves, they have to do something with the competition, and that would be the young teenage boys.
And, therefore, we believe that there`s a systematic kicking out of these children by Warren Jeffs for ridiculous things: having their arms exposed; talking to somebody outside of the cult; listening to music; reading a newspaper.
It`s unbelievable that this is going on in America, and it is.
GRACE: To Flora Jessop, who escaped the FLDS, tell me what your life was like in this sect.
JESSOP: Chaos all the time.
GRACE: What happened?
JESSOP: Well, being a child raised inside of polygamy, you never experience what it`s like to grow up with a loving family.
GRACE: And, in case you were wondering, viewers, that was a shot of her family photo.
Elizabeth, could you flip back to that, please?
Go ahead, Flora.
JESSOP: Your mother is continuously pregnant every year. She`s so worn out from having 17 children, you never get to spend time or bond with your parent. The fathers are never there. And, when they are, they punish. And you grow up with a sense of not even comprehending what it is to be a family.
GRACE: How do the wives accept each other?
JESSOP: They don`t. One of the...
GRACE: Well, can you blame them?
JESSOP: Oh, heaven`s no. One of the least understood aspects of the polygamist culture is the domestic violence, and it`s from the women.
GRACE: Did anyone attempt to force you into a marriage at a young age?
JESSOP: I was married at 16.
GRACE: To?
JESSOP: To my first cousin.
GRACE: OK. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
JESSOP: The incest is...
GRACE: I thought that was against the law.
JESSOP: Not there. The incest is horrific. The birth defects we have coming from this community are rampant. There`s a new one that they`ve been investigating, fumreyes deficiency (ph), Tourette`s, Down syndrome, hair-lip cleft pallet, lymphedema. There are so many of them.
GRACE: Flora, how young are girls, typically, when they are forced into marriages?
JESSOP: Normally, 14 to 16, but I have worked with a couple of girls that have three children and they`re 15 years old. So they started having babies at 11.
GRACE: How did you get out?
JESSOP: Ran. Ran hard. And that`s what you have to do as a female, because they do hunt you.
GRACE: To Richard Herman, a veteran defense attorney. At this juncture, the so-called prophet, Warren Jeffs, has sworn he will not be taken alive -- famous last words -- but I don`t even want to bring up what happened with Waco. The same thing was said then.
He said he would not be taken alive. He is surrounded by armed guards. We know he`s traveling in a caravan. He`s got safe houses all over the country, including in British Columbia. Is there any incentive whatsoever for him to turn himself in?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I`m pleased to say there are no safe houses in the New York City area, because if this guy came up here, I mean, he would catch a beating, I got to tell you. And with that creepy voice of his...
GRACE: Yes, right. We`re all against crime here. Crimes doesn`t happen here.
HERMAN: Well, I`ll tell you, with that creepy voice, everybody should head for the hills from this guy.
GRACE: Oh, good lord. The question is, is there any incentive legally for him to hand himself in?
HERMAN: Absolutely not.
GRACE: I`ll answer it: No. There`s no incentive.
HERMAN: This guy is facing -- he`s facing two life sentences for the accomplice rapes in Utah, two life sentences. If he truly has millions and millions of dollars, I expect this guy to get out of the country.
GRACE: And very quickly, I want to go out to John Lauro (ph), also a defense attorney. John, what could your best defense be? And how would you advise this guy to turn himself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, number one, what he`s going to say is that this is a First Amendment protected right, freedom of religion. These are 10,000 followers that basically follow the church voluntarily. No one forced them into it.
And, as far as these marriages, I believe and understand that the church characterizes these marriages as spiritual marriages and not sexual marriages.
GRACE: You don`t think they`re having sex?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what he`s going to...
GRACE: Where are all these kids coming from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he`s going to say is that`s...
GRACE: Somebody`s doing something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, he`s going to say that`s a matter between the spiritual husband and the spiritual wife.
GRACE: OK.
I want to go to Sheriff Kirk Smith with the Washington County sheriff`s department. In addition to the so-called -- euphemistically called -- plural marriages, you have people on the welfare lines out the ying-yang, Sheriff. They refer to it as, quote, "bleeding the beast." The beast is none other than the U.S. government. Explain, Sheriff.
SMITH: Well, they do. That`s one of the things that they do. That`s very...
GRACE: I mean, when one man has 75 kids?
SMITH: Yes, I realize that. But what you need to understand is they have one legalized marriage. The rest are spiritual marriages, which, technically are not marriages, so you have unwed mothers and children, which automatically gives them entitlement to a great amount of federal and state aid.
GRACE: So, you know, all the talk about inner-city families being on the welfare dole, take a look at this bunch, where one man can allegedly support 75 children. Ridiculous.
Back to "America`s Most Wanted" Michelle Sigona, where do we go from here? The reality is bringing this guy in alive may not happen. And, if it is, if it does happen, it will be a bloody showdown.
SIGONA: And that`s the unfortunate circumstances surrounding this case, Nancy. And we just hope -- we just hope that someone out there will be able to call, will be able to call 1-800-Crime-TV, call police, call the FBI, to turn him in and to get him out and so we can just get this done and over with.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PATRICK KENNEDY (D), RHODE ISLAND: The incident on Wednesday evening concerns me greatly. I simply do not remember getting out of bed, being pulled over by the police, or being cited for three driving infractions. That`s not how I want to live my life, and it`s not how I want to represent the people of Rhode Island.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Representative Kennedy after an incident which occurred around 2:45 a.m. where he crashed his Mustang convertible into a cement barrier in D.C. He told police that pulled him over -- well, then approached him after he crashed -- that he was on his way to a vote.
Joining us right now, Dave Wedge, reporter with the "Boston Herald." What exactly is your understanding of the facts, Dave?
DAVE WEDGE, "BOSTON HERALD": Well, the congressman, he took his last vote that night at about 9:00. He says that he was with a woman. He hasn`t really given a full accounting for his time between the last vote and the accident.
But what is known is that he was driving with his lights off, swerving, just missed a police car, hit a barricade right near the Capitol building. When the first police on the scene showed up, they described him as being impaired, and they specifically said that he was impaired by alcohol.
He had red, watery eyes, slurring speech, staggering. And then supervisors came, and took over the scene, and did not give him a sobriety test, did not allow the officers to give the congressman a sobriety test, and those supervisors drove Representative Kennedy home to his house.
GRACE: So he got curb service?
WEDGE: He did.
GRACE: They drove him home.
WEDGE: They did, yes.
GRACE: So did he have to recite the alphabet?
WEDGE: He was given no sobriety tests at the scene.
GRACE: OK. No one to 10, no hop on one foot, nothing?
WEDGE: Nothing at all. He was given a ride home.
GRACE: OK. That`s first-class service. Dave Wedge is with us from the "Boston Herald."
Dave, is it true that police are now backtracking and trying to go to local bars to look for receipts?
WEDGE: They are, at least they were late last week when I was down in Washington, D.C. The police were interviewing employees at bars near the Capitol, specifically the Hawk and Dove, which is a pub that Representative Kennedy is known to frequent. And there`s a hostess there that told us that the congressman was in there drinking the night before the accident.
GRACE: Drinking what, purified water?
WEDGE: She just said he was drinking; I would assume that means alcohol. You know, that`s what she told us.
GRACE: With us, Dave Wedge from the "Boston Herald." Let`s go now to Rhode Island State Representative Paul Crowley. He is a friend of Kennedy`s.
Sir, thank you for being with us. What is his response?
STATE REP. PAUL CROWLEY (D), RHODE ISLAND: Hello?
GRACE: Hello.
CROWLEY: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m great. What is Representative Kennedy`s response to these allegations?
CROWLEY: Well, I haven`t spoken to Representative Kennedy, except that what I have seen is he described that he is suffering from a combination of medical issues that are connected to probably the abuse of prescription drugs.
GRACE: You have not spoken to him since this happened?
CROWLEY: Well, no. I mean, he went into treatment, so I don`t think it`s common that we would have a conversation. I`ve known Patrick for many years, but it`s not like we would pick up the phone and chat to each other every day.
GRACE: How long has he allegedly had this addiction?
CROWLEY: In terms of his medical problems, I mean, he`s said very early on he suffers from depression and has for many years. I believe that he is also -- and I had an incidence when I was with him a couple years ago while we were campaigning in my district in Newport, Rhode Island, where, after a day of campaigning -- we were with each other all day, and there was no consumption of alcohol or anything like that -- we were at a family event for a Halloween pumpkin lighting and he became disoriented. And I have diabetes in my family, and I said to an aide, "Is Patrick all right?" Because it had the symptoms to me of diabetes...
GRACE: Of diabetes, OK.
CROWLEY: ... which I could see somebody who doesn`t know diabetes would say, "Well, that person is drunk."
GRACE: Let`s go to Dr. Drew Pinsky. He is an addiction specialist and a chief of the chemical dependency at Los Encinas Hospital.
Dr. Pinsky, thank you for being with us. What would the combination of Ambien and Phenergan result be?
DREW PINSKY, CHIEF OF CHEMICAL DEPENDENCY, LAS ENCINAS HOSPITAL: Well, look, Ambien is an amnesic medication, so people commonly forget what they`re doing. Adding Phenergan to that makes people intoxicated. He has admitted to the fact that he was under the influence, and intoxicated, and driving. There are many, many experiences out there with people not remembering getting into their car while under the influence of these drugs.
The fact, though, is it`s completely irrelevant. The fact is he an opiate addict. He has said that. He`s had a year-long struggle with pain medication, which are opiates; whether it`s OxyContin, vicodin, it doesn`t matter.
He described in his public statement a 15-year history of addiction, which is a long, chronic, relapsing condition. He is in full relapse; whether he used Ambien, or alcohol, or vicodin, it doesn`t matter.
He is a gentleman in relapse. He went immediately back into treatment. He did exactly what he should do, given his medical condition.
The witch hunt for an alcohol, you know, if you look at the police report...
GRACE: You know, you`re absolutely correct. Even under the law, Dr. Pinksy, it doesn`t matter what you`re intoxicated upon.
PINSKY: Exactly. If you look...
GRACE: It just matters if you`re intoxicated.
PINSKY: ... at the report in Washington, D.C., they don`t distinguish between alcohol and other intoxicants. It just says "intoxicated." In other states, there are specifications. So, you know, it doesn`t matter. He was intoxicated. He said he was intoxicated. He`s in full relapse, and right back to the hospital.
GRACE: Doctor, this isn`t the first time there`s been an incident. Take a look. Caught on video, here at an airport, Representative Kennedy gets into an argument with a female security guard at the airport -- this is post-9/11 -- where he actually pushes the woman, tells her who he is. He must have had some Ambien that day, too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": Did you hear about this? Ted Kennedy`s son, Congressman Patrick Kennedy, crashed his car into a barricade on Capitol Hill at 3:00 in the morning last night. The head of Kennedy`s office said no alcohol was involved.
Well, that`s why it`s a huge story. A Kennedy in a car accident with no alcohol? That has never happened. That has never -- this is a huge -- this is a big story.
(LAUGHTER)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": Even though it was 3:00 in the morning, he told the police he was late for a congressional vote.
(LAUGHTER)
They said he appeared to be intoxicated. Kennedy says, no, he reacted to prescription drugs. His father is Ted Kennedy, so, you know, the olive doesn`t fall too far from the martini tree, I guess.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, of course, we`re going to be accused of piling on. That was NBC`s Jay Leno, ABC`s Jimmy Kimmel, making specific to the stigma of alcohol-related controversy associated with the Kennedy family.
To Darrell West, the author of "Patrick Kennedy: The Rise to Power," he`s professor at Brown University.
Welcome, Professor. Under constitutional law, does he get a pass if he`s on the way to a congressional vote?
DARRELL WEST, BROWN UNIVERSITY: If he was on the way to a congressional vote, he would get a pass. But, of course, there is no vote at 2:30 in the morning, so I don`t think he can really plead legal or constitutional...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Not that I would put it past Congress. Now, question: Is this latest incident out of character for him? You have literally written the book.
WEST: I did write a book on Patrick Kennedy. But when you look over the last few years, there have been a series of incidents involving him. I mean, you showed the video of him shoving the airport security guard.
After that, there was a trashing of a boat while he was on a date with a woman. And now he`s wrecked a car and is in rehab for an addiction problem.
So, clearly, I think being a Kennedy is a double-edged sword. I mean, it provides an opportunity for public service, but it also puts the person in the public spotlight under a great deal of pressure. And Patrick Kennedy clearly has had some problems dealing with that.
GRACE: So, alcohol, prescription drugs, Professor?
WEST: It has been a big problem for him. As a high school senior, he was in rehab for a cocaine problem. There have been alcohol issues for him and for his family. So, obviously, that has been a real problem.
GRACE: Thank you, Professor. Professor Darrell West of Brown University, author of "Patrick Kennedy: Rise to Power."
But thank you to all of our guests. Most of all to you, for being with us. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern.
Let`s remember Army Sergeant Amanda Nicole Pinson, just 21, St. Louis, Missouri, killed in Iraq. Her dream to serve her country, an American hero.
Good night, friend.
END
