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The Situation Room
Band Manager Sentenced For Night Club Fire; Rove In Legal Limbo; President Bush's Travel Plan Slip; What Challenges Will Hayden Face; Dick Durbin Interview; Lawrence Eagleburger Interview; Senator Hillary Clinton Attends Fundraiser Hosted By Conservative Media Mogul Rupert Murdoch; Latinos May Be Important In Elections
Aired May 10, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, it's 5:00 p.m. in Rhode Island, where just moments ago a former rock band manager was sentenced for the nightclub fire that killed 100 people. We'll have the latest details on this developing story.
Here in Washington, the president's pick for CIA chief tries to win hearts and minds on Capitol Hill and gets a date for return visit. This time for confirmation hearings. But will he get the job?
And census figures now show Latinos make up the nation's largest and fastest-growing minority group. Are they about to start flexing their political muscles?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The CIA shuffle is getting a bit more interesting today, if not a bit more awkward. The president's nominee to lead the spy agency, General Michael Hayden, was on Capitol Hill once again, trying to make his case to the lawmakers.
Also on the Hill, the outgoing CIA director, Porter Goss, who abruptly announced his resignation last week. He was there to receive an award when CNN caught up with him.
Our congressional correspondent, Andrea Koppel, is watching all of these developments for us. She has the story -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we were talking about this last hour, sort of the juxtaposition up here on the Hill today which was very unusual. That you had Porter Goss, the outgoing head of the CIA, who was receiving this distinguished service award over in the Capitol, not just for his 15 years of service as a congressman from Florida, but also for his tenure at the CIA. Obviously, no way of knowing that five days ago he was going to be dismissed from his job by President Bush, at the same time, you had General Hayden up here. Now, just a few moments ago, our congressional producer, Deidre Walsh (ph), caught up with Porter Goss, who had just come out of this -- really this celebratory day in which he was surrounded by friends, by the speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, who had nothing but wonderful things to say about him, by Senator Saxby Chambliss, by many, many people who have been really sticking up for him in the last five days.
And he was clearly in a terrific mood as he left the House. And he was walking with his wife, and this is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Director Goss -- Director Goss, some of your friends on the Hill fell like you got a raw deal. Do you agree?
PORTER GOSS, CIA DIRECTOR: Let me put it this way, I'm glad to have so many friends on the Hill. Thank you very much. It's been a wonderful day here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have advice for your successor, Director Goss?
GOSS: I am sure whoever my successor is will be very good at the job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any plans to run for the Senate, sir?
GOSS: Right now I'm going home to my beloved Florida, get some sleep. And ask me when I wake up. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Director.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: There have been some rumors that perhaps Porter Goss might throw his hat in the ring for the Senate in Florida. So that's where that question comes from.
But Wolf, clearly, he did not endorse General Hayden, as he might have done when Deidre Walsh asked him that question. General Hayden knocking on doors behind me, trying to win the support of enough senators when he goes before the Senate Intelligence Committee, that he's able to make it to the Senate floor.
In just a few minutes, he's going to be meeting with a tough customer, with the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Arlen Specter, who has said -- pretty much kind of thrown up -- said he might throw up a few roadblocks to the nomination if he doesn't get answers that he has been trying to get from the White House and General Hayden on that controversial NSA wiretap program -- Wolf.
BLITZER: He's also met with Senator Durbin. We're going to be speaking to Senator Durbin here in THE SITUATION ROOM in a few moments.
Andrea, thank you very much.
We're also following a developing story this hour. The sentence just handed down in the case of that Rhode Island nightclub fire that killed 100 people.
Let's go straight to CNN Correspondent Allan Chernoff. He's joining us from Providence with the latest developments -- Allan.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, family members of the victims have been pouring out of court, some of them deeply disappointed. And some of the satisfied with the sentence.
Daniel Biechele, the band manager, received a sentence of four years in prison and also three years of probation. Biechele clearly was very contrite. He had written apology letters to all of the families. And in court, he begged for mercy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL BIECHELE, BAND MANAGER: I don't know that I'll ever forgive myself for what happened that night. So I can't expect anybody else to. I can only pray that they understand that they understand that I would do anything to undo what happened that night and give them back their loved ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHERNOFF: It was a very tough call for the judge. Under a plea deal, the band manager could have gotten as much as 10 years in prison. He did plead guilty to 100 counts of involuntary manslaughter.
Remember, 100 people died in that nightclub fire. And the band member was the person who lit the pyrotechnics that triggered the fire in the nightclub, burned the nightclub down. The judge, minutes after Biechele's statement, announced this sentence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE FRANCIS DARIGAN, SUPERIOR COURT: This court will therefore sentence you to 15 years at the ACI, four years of which to be served by you with 11 years suspended. And the court will place you on probation for a period of three years.
This court does not believe you pose a threat to society in the future. And the court believes that this is reasonably appropriate for the matters we have heard here today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHERNOFF: Biechele is the only person in this case to have done a plea deal. So the club owners are likely to face trial later this year -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Allan Chernoff, thanks very much. What a sad story that Rhode Island fire was and remains. Other news we're following here in Washington, President Bush facing some very real problems in the polls. A "New York Times"-CBS News poll showing more than two-thirds of those asked think the country is worse off now than before Mr. Bush took office. The same poll shows the president's approval rating at 31 percent.
And he doesn't fair much better in our own poll of polls averaging five major surveys. That brings the president's approval rating to just 33 percent.
Trouble, too, for the president's top political adviser, Karl Rove. He's in legal limbo, waiting for word from a grand jury investigating that CIA leak case.
CNN's Brian Todd is checking the latest developments. He's joining us from the newsroom -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that limbo certainly causing some nervousness over at the White House. But the tealeaves in this case, pretty hard to read.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): With a decision possibly within days, one source with knowledge of the Karl Rove case tells CNN Rove's side does not expect he'll be indicted by a federal grand jury. That's at odds with other indications CNN has received that Rove's team is nervous about possible charges.
SCOTT FREDERICKSEN, FMR. INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: You know, the pressure in this kinds of cases is huge because you're talking about indicting one of the highest-ranking members of this administration. Perjury may be the key charge, but obstruction of justice may also be an important charge.
TODD: It comes down to whether prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald feels he can prove Rove knowingly misled the jury when he initially failed to disclose to the panel his conversation with "TIME" magazine reporter Matt Cooper about former Ambassador Joe Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, working at the CIA.
This is what Rove said publicly about Plame.
KARL ROVE, WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: I didn't know her name and didn't leak her name.
TODD: But Rove had been involved in a White House campaign to refute Wilson's criticism of the president's case for war in Iraq. After his first testimony, Rove's attorney was told by another "TIME" reporter, Viveca Novak, that Rove was Cooper's source. Rove's attorney dug round and discovered an e-mail from Rove indicating that conversation with Cooper did occur.
Rove's side went to Fitzgerald with the e-mail and claimed Rove simply didn't remember the conversation, and the e-mail jogged his memory. Rove has since been back before Fitzgerald's grand jury four times.
FREDERICKSEN: He's going to look at that evidence and say, is that believable that he forgot that conversation if he was centrally involved in combating those press attacks, if he was going out and having those conversations? Or is this something that someone normally could forget months later?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: After a period of near hibernation, Rove has been moved out of his top White House policy job. Literally had to move offices. He's back as the top political strategist, but with this legal entanglement, it's not clear how effectively he'll be able to help the administration get through a very tough midterm election campaign -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll stay on top of this story. Brian, thanks for that.
And we're going to have much on the Rove case coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour. Our senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, will join us with his expert insight.
There's always tight security around the president of the Untied States, even more so when he travels. But some very important details of the president's Florida trip slipped out this week, making for some very nervous moments.
Let's get the details from CNN's Kathleen Koch -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's truly an amazing story. And it turns out it was an alert sanitation worker who discovered this information that was meant for official eyes only.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH (voice over): The exact arrival and departure time for Marine One and for backup choppers Night Hawk Two and Three, a list of every passenger on board each aircraft, from President Bush to the military attache carrying the nuclear football, just the kind of information a terrorist would love to find.
RANDY HOPKINS, SANITATION WORKER: When I seen this symbol, and me being nosy, I thought I should pick it up and read it.
KOCH: Instead, D.C.-area sanitation worker Randy Hopkins found the stack of papers with details of the president's Florida visit on the floor next to a big trash truck Tuesday morning while President Bush was still on the trip.
HOPKINS: I saw locations and names and places where the president is supposed to be on this day. And I knew it was kind of important. It shouldn't have been in the trash whole like this.
KOCH: The papers even listed the order of vehicles in the president's motorcade, including which limo Mr. Bush was in. RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it's a pretty big screw-up. It could be a lot worse. It could be a classified document. But it's pretty bad. The people who get this are supposed to dispose of this in a burn bag.
KOCH: The Secret Service says these were White House documents and not classified. No one knows who left the staff trip schedule. But Hopkins says he felt it was his civic duty to turn it in.
HOPKINS: We're going through a war. And if it would have fell into the rights hands at the right time, it could have been something real messy for the presidency.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: The White House isn't commenting on the incident, but a former agent from the presidential protective detail who I spoke with this afternoon said, "You can bet that the Secret Service is talking to staff right now to find out just who handled this sensitive information so very carelessly" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: An alert sanitation worker, Randy Hopkins. Thanks to him.
Thanks very much, Kathleen.
Let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty is standing by with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: No secret that anti-American feelings are on the rise around the world. And it's no secret that some Americans traveling abroad get slapped with a pretty nasty stereotype. A lot of us are seen as loud, arrogant, poorly dressed, and with bad manners and no respect for other cultures.
Well, now there's a nonprofit group that's trying to fix the image of the ugly American. It's come up with a world citizen's guide with tips for business travelers. So, if you're traveling, pay attention.
The tips are as follows: Think as big as you like, but talk and act smaller. Boasting or talking about money or status considered rude. Speak lower and slower; fast-talking can be seen as aggressive. Dress up. Casual dress is seen as a sign of disrespect in some places.
And listen as least as much as you talk. Make sure to ask those you're visiting about their culture.
Here is our question, then. Should Americans change their behavior when they're abroad?
E-mail your thoughts to caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: I know my mom used to give me advice like that. I suspect your mom did as well.
CAFFERTY: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Now we're getting it from the State Department, right?
CAFFERTY: Even if you want to cross the street to the neighbor kid's house, a lot of that stuff applied.
BLITZER: That's right. All right. We learned all that stuff in kindergarten.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
BLITZER: Up ahead, courting Congress. The president's pick to head the CIA makes his case to lawmakers. I'll talk to one them this hour. Democratic Senator Dick Durbin, he's about to join us live in THE SITUATION ROOM. We'll talk about his meeting with General Michael Hayden.
Also, the changing face of America. We'll show you some surprising findings and what they could mean for the future of our country.
Plus, major developments in the nuclear standoff between Washington and Iran. I'll speak about them live with the former secretary of state, Lawrence Eagleburger. He has some outspoken opinions.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The president's choice for CIA chief, General Michael Hayden, made the rounds once again on Capitol Hill today, meeting with senators who will decide whether he gets the job. Among them, Illinois Democrat Dick Durbin. He's about to join us live here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
General Hayden got an invitation for a return visit. A confirmation hearing is set to begin a week from tomorrow. If General Hayden gets the job as CIA director, what kind of challenges will he face?
Joining us now, our national security correspondent, David Ensor -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the job that General Hayden is up for, no question about it, is one of the toughest in this town.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOSS: It's great to be back. ENSOR (voice over): While CIA Director Porter Goss was accepting an award for service from his old colleagues in Congress, the Air Force general the president named to replace him was doing the rounds, looking for confirmation votes from senators.
The real hot seat is out at the CIA, where the top item in the director's "in" tray will be building the best human intelligence spy service possible at an agency demoralized, many say, by the loss of hundreds of years worth of experience under Goss. Veterans say the choice of a man forced out by Goss aides, Russian and Farsi-speaking Steven Kappes, to serve as General Hayden's deputy, could make all the difference.
GARY BERNTSEN, FMR. CIA OFFICER: It's possibly the best decision they could have made. Kappes is possibly the most respected officer of his generation.
ENSOR: Also in Hayden's "in" tray, if confirmed, what to do about Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and several dozen other top al Qaeda prisoners being held and interrogated at undisclosed locations around the world. Since a newspaper said somewhere in secret prisons in Europe, the pressure has been on the administration to figure out what to do with them. Former officials say there is no end game in mind, and there needs to be.
Another key decision for Hayden, how many CIA analysts to farm out to other agencies? Goss quit, aides say, in part out of opposition to what he thought was too much of that.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, FMR. CIA DEP. DIRECTOR: It's important that we not take so many people out of the CIA that it loses its punch in counterterrorism in particular.
ENSOR: The idea of a serving general at the civilian CIA has been opposed by some of Goss' friends on the Hill. Goss did not appear to assume Hayden will be confirmed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any advice for your successor, Director Goss?
GOSS: I'm sure whoever my successor is will be very good at the job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Both Goss and Hayden know what the deal is. The CIA director gets blamed for failures, the successes, they remain secret -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David, thank you for that.
Among those meeting with General Hayden, Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois. He's a member of the Judiciary Committee dealing with terrorism, homeland security, among other issues. He says Hayden is certainly qualified to run the CIA, but has concerns about the president's pick. Senator Durbin is joining us now from Capitol Hill.
What do you think of General Hayden, Senator?
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Well, he's sure impressive when it comes to his knowledge of the intelligence community and his work at the NSA. Three basic questions. Is he independent enough? Can he stand up to Secretary Rumsfeld when he's arguing for the Defense Department to have its own separate intelligence operation as it has in the past?
Secondly, is he going to follow the McCain amendment which said no torture even for CIA employees?
And finally, when it comes to this warrantless wiretap program, haven't we reached the point where the administration should ask that the law be changed so they can follow the law instead of saying they're above the law?
I think those are the three basic concerns I have.
BLITZER: But is he basically qualified?
DURBIN: Oh, no question in my mind about that. This is a very bright man who's given a good part of his life to intelligence activity. He knows it inside and out. There's no question about that.
BLITZER: What did he say to you about changing that law to make it more palatable to you and other critics of the warrantless wiretaps? What did he say to you during that meeting?
DURBIN: I was surprised. You know, initially, the administration said, we can't ask for a change in the law without tipping our hand as to how we're using this program and what we're doing. But he said today when we met that there's been enough publicity about the program now we may be moving closer to a point where a request for a change in the law could take place.
I certainly hope that's the case. I think every president should follow the law.
BLITZER: Because earlier, the administration argument, including General Hayden, was that this kind of publicity, if there were an open debate about the details of this warrantless surveillance program, would tip off badly-needed information to the terrorists, to the enemy. And as a result, there should be no open discussion of it.
DURBIN: I understand that. But let me tell you, both political parties agree on that. We want to wiretap anyone who's a threat to the United States, particularly when associated with al Qaeda. We want to stop them before they cause harm here.
But we've got a system and a process that goes through a court that takes a view of these requests for wiretaps. And virtually every case they say yes. We think that this administration, like every other president, should be held to that standard.
BLITZER: What did he say to you about this other issue you raised, no torture?
DURBIN: Well, I'm a little bit concerned about his answer. He did ask me to give him a little time. He's going through an extensive briefing.
You know, he's worked at the NSA, which deals with signal intelligence and technological acquisition of conversations and information. Now he's moving closer to the human intelligence are with the CIA.
He's asked for a little time to look at the torture issue and to get back with me. But I really hope that he doesn't take Vice President Cheney's position.
The vice president argued against the McCain amendment initially and said the CIA employee should be exempt. We can't exempt any American from the basic American values that oppose torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.
BLITZER: Do you have a problem that he's a military man as opposed to being a civilian?
DURBIN: Well, a problem in this respect. Secretary Rumsfeld has been in competition with the CIA and the major intelligence agencies also from the start. He created his own intelligence operation under a man named Douglas Feith. It was virtually a renegade operation where he set out his own agenda, trying to prove his own view of intelligence data.
And that wasn't healthy. I don't think healthy at all. And I wanted to know if General Hayden is a man in uniform who has been a loyal soldier is willing to stand up to the secretary of defense if he goes too far. He assured me he had with intelligence reform and in other areas, and tried to give me some confidence in believing that he could in the future if he's called on.
BLITZER: As the new CIA director, assuming he's confirmed, he'll remain a deputy to John Negroponte, the director of National Intelligence, which is what he does right now. Is this basically reshuffling the deck a little bit? Or is there something more significant going on?
DURBIN: I think it's significant that Porter Goss has been asked to leave or chose to leave. I don't know all the circumstances. It may take some time for them to come out, but we've lost a lot of professionals at the CIA.
Some are now returning because Mr. Goss is leaving. But we have lost some very talented people. And I think what Mr. Negroponte and the president are seeking is a much better operation on intelligence, much more cooperation. And I think that's why they've turned to General Hayden.
BLITZER: Are you happy Porter Goss is gone?
DURBIN: Yes, I am. I didn't vote for him.
I like him, we have served together in the House. I think he's entirely too political for the job, and I think over the last couple years there's been a real bloodbath at the CIA. We have lost some very talented people. Not that they didn't need a shake-up, but I think it went too far.
BLITZER: Dick Durbin, senator from Illinois.
Thanks, Senator, for joining us.
DURBIN: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, it's an international crisis of nuclear proportion, the standoff with Iran over its nuclear program. How can the U.S. get past the impasse? I'll ask the former secretary of state, Lawrence Eagleburger. He's standing by to join us live here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, how about a break on your taxes? House Republicans reach a deal on a tax cut. We're going to tell you who will benefit and who won't.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
President Bush says he won't reply to that 17-page letter from Iran's president, but he's talking about it. In Florida today, Mr. Bush said the letter did not answer the world's most pressing question, "When will you get rid of your nuclear program?" He says the United States and other powers all agree that Iran should not have a weapon or a capacity to make a nuclear weapon.
Meantime, Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, today dismissed Western concerns as "a big lie." On a visit to Indonesia, he said Iran will not back away from its right to pursue new technology. The U.S. and other powers have agreed to warn Iran of the consequences of refusing to halt its nuclear efforts while at the same time suggesting that Iran may gain benefits by giving up its enrichment program.
Could sanctions solve the standoff with Iran? Will the United States have to resort to military force down the road?
Former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger is a veteran of many international crises. He's joining us now live from Charlottesville, Virginia.
Mr. Secretary, welcome to THE SITUATION ROOM. Always good to have you on the program.
LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you, Wolf. BLITZER: Is this smart not to respond directly to the president, not to reply to President Ahmadinejad for that that 17-page letter?
EAGLEBURGER: I don't think the president has anything to gain by replying if -- from what I have seen of the 17-page letter, it wanders all over the place and doesn't really focus in on the issues that are particularly critical to us. So I think he's wise just to leave it alone.
BLITZER: As you well know in the course of diplomatic nuance, the U.S. actually received the letter through the Swiss Embassy which represents U.S. diplomatic interests...
EAGLEBURGER: That's right.
BLITZER: ... in Tehran. The fact that the United States even accepted it, received the letter, should we read anything into that?
EAGLEBURGER: No, I don't -- well, I'd have to back up, I guess. You should -- what you should, I think, assume from this is that the administration was interested in finding out what the president of Iran had to say. But I don't think it goes much beyond that. And certainly, President Bush's remarks since then would indicate that, well, we read it, and that's it, but we don't take much from it.
BLITZER: One of your colleagues, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, was here in THE SITUATION ROOM last, and she said this -- I want you to listen to what she said about Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: What is important is for the international community to act together and take action in the Security Council. But I have also come to the realization that it is very important for us to have direct talks with Iran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Is that a good idea for the U.S. and Iran to establish direct talks on the nuclear issue?
EAGLEBURGER: No. It seems to me -- and I respect the secretary, but this is not the only time she's ever been wrong.
Now let me -- here's the point. If we go into this alone with Iran, number one, unless you believe, and I don't, that the Iranians really intend to find some solution to this thing, all it's going to do is keep us talking and keep things going. And at the same time, keeping us from doing anything deliberate with the rest of the world.
And particularly with our other allies to begin to bring pressure on Iran if it's possible to do that. And I think it seems to me therefore if we're going to talk with the Iranians, it has to be in the company of the Germans and the French and the British. And I don't know who else but at least it needs to be more than one country, more than us. And I think we need to accept from the beginning it's highly unlikely we're going to be able to do anything through diplomatic channels to turn this president of Iran and his subjects into a more sensible course. I think we have to take into consideration what he said. And he has said more than once they're going to go ahead with all this. And I think he means it.
BLITZER: Here is what the former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a man you know well, said here in THE SITUATION ROOM last Friday. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The current prime minister of Israel was right when he called Ahmadinejad a latter day Hitler. Because they share the same fanaticism and the same mentality. But if this regime will be armed with nuclear weapons, then the danger for the entire world will be enormous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Do you agree with that comparison to Hitler?
EAGLEBURGER: More or less. Again, comparisons of this sort don't necessarily take you very far. I think there's no question this man, the head of Iran, I can't even pronounce his name. So I leave that to you. There's no question in my mind he has very clear intentions to build the weapons.
And I think he has clear intentions to shake up the world at least in his neighborhood, and try to do what he can to dominate that part of the world. I think he's a dangerous man. But I also have to tell you the man who follows him might be just as dangerous.
The issue here is whether Iran can build nuclear weapons or not. And if they do and are successful at it, I think we will all pay a price in the future that will be very unpleasant. And that doesn't mean we don't have to be tough now, but what it does mean if we're not tough, it's going to be much worse when we do get tough.
BLITZER: Does the U.S. have a viable military option?
EAGLEBURGER: Yes. Not viable -- it has a military option that could succeed, I think. And that is not to say I am at this stage advocating it. But what I am saying is that all is not lost in the sense that if nothing else works to persuade the Iranians to stop what they're doing, I do think military we could stop them from what they're doing. But I don't think we could invade Iran. But I think from the air and so forth, we could make it so unpleasant for them that they would have to stop.
BLITZER: One quick question on General Michael Hayden. A good idea to have a military man run the CIA?
EAGLEBURGER: I have struggled with this one, Wolf, and my answer is I think this general, as far as I can tell, is a good man. I'm a little bothered by somebody who is on active duty in the military heading the CIA. I would feel better about it if he would retire or resign or whatever it is you have to do and come at it from a civilian point of view.
We have had admirals and so forth running the CIA before, but they have always been retired. My point being, and it was covered by Senator Durbin who by and large I don't ever agree with but in this case, the fact that the general is in fact a general, and the fact that the Pentagon and the military have for so long really dominated the whole intelligence effort leads me to think it would be better if he would leave the Air Force.
On the other hand, I'm not going to say that the critical single element that ought to keep him from taking the job. I would just feel better about it if he were out of the military.
BLITZER: Lawrence Eagleburger is the former secretary of state. Mr. Secretary, always good to have you here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
EAGLEBURGER: My pleasure, Wolf.
BLITZER: Coming up next, there are more Latinos in the United States, and they're wielding more political muscle. We're going to tell you about the numbers just out from a census report and what it all means.
And guess who is coming to dinner? You might not believe who is helping Senator Hillary Clinton raise money for her reelection. A hint. Some of his companies have blasted her over the years. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Let's go up to New York. Ali Velshi is standing by with "The Bottom Line." Ali?
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: The Federal Reserve has now raised interest rates for the 16th consecutive time. Ben Bernanke and company upped the feds funds rate, that's the rate the banks charge each other to borrow money over night, to five percent.
That means the prime rate is on its way up, too. Banks use the prime rate, should now be about eight percent, as a benchmark for things like credit cards and home equity loans. Don't expect it to raise your mortgage rate and here's why. Mortgage rates are not tied to the fed funds rate. Mortgage rates are set by the rate that's paid on U.S. treasuries. hey go up and down for entirely different reasons. And that means they don't move in lock step.
As this chart will show you, the fed funds rate, the yellow and the 20 the 30-year mortgage don't go step by step with each other. But a home equity loan does track to fed funds rate so if you've got one of those, you can expect a higher rate and credit cards, well, if you have a variable rate credit card, it's probably tied to the prime rate. Doesn't mean your credit card will go up right away though. Now, most car loans are fixed rates. Like mortgages, they're not tied to the fed funds rates, they're tied to the treasury. And if you're worried about student loans, don't mind the fed, federal student loan interest rates are set once a year. But you should worry, because thanks to the recently passed deficit reduction act, student loan rates are going to see a big jump in July.
Now if you were looking at this Fed action to push the Dow to its all time high, don't hold your breath. The Dow climbed just two points after all that nonsense. Still about 80 points away from the record. The NASDAQ was off 17 points, Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll watch it on a daily basis together with you, Ali. Thanks very much. Let's check in with Lou Dobbs to see what he has in store at the top of the hour. Lou?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, good to see you. Thank you. Coming up here on CNN at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, we'll be reporting on Republican efforts to lift the president's sinking poll numbers by extending $70 billion of tax cuts. But will those tax cuts do anything to help the hard pressed middle class American families? We'll have complete coverage for you tonight.
And incredibly tonight, Mexican officials apparently believe our southern border doesn't exist, at least not for them. An attorney who is trying to defend the State of Arizona's sovereignty from a legal assault by the government of Mexico is among my guests tonight.
And I'll be talking with the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Congressman Pete King, who says we can't control illegal immigration unless we secure the borders first, how about that? Please join us at the top of the hour here on CNN. We hope you'll be with us. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: We will. Thanks, Lou, very much. Still to come, politics creating some very strange bedfellows. Might Senator Hillary Clinton now be aligned with a noted conservative many liberals love to hate?
And in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour is the joke on them? That would be the Bush administration. More comedians are taking direct aim at the president. How might that be affecting President Bush's poll numbers. Jeanne Moos has surprising details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: New developments right now in the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal. Just a short while ago, the Secret Service released logs of Abramoff's visits to the White House. Questions have been raised about the extent of the convicted lobbyist's contacts with the president and the Bush administration. Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is standing by with more -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, we got our hands on the documents because the conservative watch dog group Judicial Watch filed a Freedom of Information Act request. Here is what they said they wanted. They wanted the visitor logs from January 1, 2001, to the present for lobbyist Jack Abramoff to the White House.
While we got them today and there's two pages, two visits you can take a look at. One on March 6 at 4:00 in the afternoon. He stayed for about 25 minutes. And then if you take a look, there is another one on January 20th, 2004. He was there for about 47 minutes.
Now Judicial Watch is saying they think these logs are incomplete. The reason they give is they asked for Secret Service reports back in the Clinton era. When they got those, they got more information, like the visitee, the requester, and the room the person went to.
This information is not on the Abramoff documents. But the U.S. Department of Justice that delivered these documents today say there were no exemptions and nothing has been withheld. Go to CNN.com/situationreport and you can read these for yourself, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Jacki, for that. Many liberals dislike him. Many conservatives are hostile to her. So what will happen when Senator Hillary Clinton attends a fundraiser hosted by none other than conservative media mogul Rupert Murdoch? CNN's Mary Snow is in New York and she has details -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, a spokesman for Rupert Murdoch says Murdoch wants to show support for Senator Clinton's work in New York as she seeks re-election. Now when Clinton first ran in 2000, the Murdoch-owned "New York Post" was highly critical of her. The different tone comes as speculation builds, of course, that Clinton will seek a White House bid in 2008.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Am I worried about being targeted by Republicans?
SNOW (voice-over): Senator Hillary Clinton makes light of a question about Republican foes, and now one of the foes is a new and unlikely ally. Conservative media mogul Rupert Murdoch will host a fundraiser for Senator Clinton. She's been a frequent target of Murdoch's media companies.
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN ANCHOR: Murdoch's media properties, the "New York Post" most famously, Fox News Channel beat up on Hillary for years. She was a big, fat, juicy target when she was first lady.
SNOW: She fired back at Republicans, going on NBC's "Today Show," telling Matt Lauer in 1998 the right wing waged a battle against her husband.
CLINTON: The great story here for anybody willing to find it and write about and explain it is the vast right wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for president.
SNOW: Smack in the middle of the battle, say political observers, was Murdoch's media empire. Of Murdoch's support now, Senator Clinton says, quote, "I am very gratified that he thinks I'm doing a good job. With Murdoch's praise comes criticism towards Clinton.
BEN SMITH, "N.Y. DAILY NEWS" POLITICAL COLUMNIST: Liberal bloggers are saying she sold her soul to the devil.
SNOW: Others say it it's a move toward moderation, much in the same way she's formed alliances with Republicans such as Senator Lindsey Graham, former House speaker Newt Gingrich and Senator John McCain.
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It proves again that she's a consensus builder who is not extraordinarily ideological, but significant enough as a Democrat, and who is not a polarizer.
SNOW: The question is, will it effect the news coverage of Hillary Clinton at Murdoch's media companies.
Some media observers say the "New York Post" is taking a gentler tone with Clinton, especially after 9/11. Others doubt the coverage will change dramatically.
PAUL WALDMAN, MEDIA MATTERS FOR AMERICA: They know that beating up on Hillary Clinton is part of their bread and butter. And I can't imagine them stopping now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (on camera): Political observers say, though, that Murdoch had a big influence on elections in the U.K. in 1997 when he crossed over from the Conservative Party and backed Tony Blair of the Labour Party -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll see what he does here. Thanks very much, Mary, good report.
One group Senator Clinton may need the court should she run for president, that would be Latinos. There's new data showing surging Latino population growth possibly setting the group up for some lasting political impact. CNN's Chris Lawrence is in Los Angeles. He's joining us with details. Chris?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the latest census report shows that nationwide nearly half the children under the age of five years old are now racial or ethnic minorities. Most of that boom is being attributed to a booming Latino population. And that causes some very real political consequences down the road, has huge implications.
Experts say a lot of the immigrants are no longer clustering on the coast. They're moving into Midwestern states like Illinois and Iowa. And they're moving South. A lot of the recent immigration move is now going into traditional red states like Texas, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, and that has huge implications for political parties.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK SAWYER, UCLA: And that is what is of concern to Republican Party. That if they alienate this group of potential new voters who have a different view. They're much more - they much more believe in a kind of social safety net. They're concerned about education and health care and believe the government should play a role in it. And that potentially means that many red states may turn blue. Particularly those that still have a large African American population.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE: In fact here on the West Coast, a lot of African American politicians are already making a concerted effort to reach out to their Hispanic communities.
Now a lot of the changes are years away from having their full impact. But coming up in the next hour of THE SITUATION ROOM, we'll tell you why these demographic changes are so important for the elections this November and how the Republican and Democratic parties are going in different directions in how they're trying to recruit these potential voters -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Chris, thanks. Chris will be back in the 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour with more on this story. Chris Lawrence, Mary Snow, Jackie Schechner. Part of the best political team on television. CNN, America's campaign headquarter.
Up ahead, Jack Cafferty has your answers to our question of the hour. Should Americans change their behavior when they're abroad?
Also coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, plunging poll numbers. No laughing matter at the White House. But are they for TV jokesters? Jeanne Moos has a unique look. You'll want to see that 7:00 Eastern, tonight right here on THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Some tornado warnings in Texas. Let's check in with our Reynolds Wolf. He has got the latest details. Reynolds?
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: OK, Wolf. The latest we have for you, we're going to take you back down near Houston, near Ft. Bend County where we have a tornado warning that is in effect. At this time, the storm we have just to the southwest of Houston, we do have again a possible tornado in this area moving to the southeast at about 20 miles per hour.
We also had a sighting of a funnel cloud in Victoria, Texas from this cell that we see just a little bit farther to the southwest. But this is just a little, tiny sample of what we have been dealing with throughout the afternoon into the early evening.
Also into Louisiana and over into Vicksburg, Mississippi, back over to Jackson, Wolf, this entire area is under tornado warning. We have strong cells. Many of these storms rotating. And with these rotating storms, they contain possible tornadoes. This is certainly an area we're going to have to watch very carefully.
This is something that we're seeing from the same storm system that brought the storm damage to parts of north Texas, back over to the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. As the storm system drives off toward the east, that area of low pressure, that frontal boundary is interacting with a great deal of moist air from the Gulf of Mexico. That coupled with the jet stream is going to give us a rough evening. And it could be rough also into early tomorrow morning.
Something to watch for you very carefully.
BLITZER: Reynolds, thank you very much.
WOLF: You bet.
BLITZER: Up next, should Americans change their behavior when they're abroad. It's our question of the hour. Jack Cafferty standing by with your email. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There she is. Zain Verjee. She's standing by with some other important news. Zain?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, Britain's attorney general is calling for the Guantanamo prison camp to be closed. He calls its existence unacceptable, saying it discredits the U.S. tradition of liberty, freedom, and justice. It's the sharpest British criticism of Guantanamo to date. The State Department has responded by saying that releasing Guantanamo detainees could leave Americans vulnerable to terror attacks.
And Israeli fuel companies are cutting gas supplies to the West Bank and Gaza citing the Palestinian government's growing debt. That is forcing some stations to close and creating long lines for others. The fuel crunch is the latest blow since the militant group Hamas won control of the Palestinian government. Western donors have cut official direct aid until Hamas renounces violence and recognizes Israel. But donors are also saying that they will set up a fund to give humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thanks very much.
Let's check in with Jack Cafferty in New York. Jack?
CAFFERTY: A new guide out with tips for how Americans ought to behave overseas. The goal is to fix the image of the ugly American. The question, should Americans change their behavior when they're abroad?
Andrew in Tampa writes, "In addition to the changes you mentioned, Americans need to be more patient, less demanding as service is slower and less efficient than what we are accustomed to at home."
Eli writes, "Americans should change their behavior at home as well as abroad. Thinking we're the center of the universe is not only what gets us into trouble as tourists abroad but also what leads to such things as the invasion of Iraq and the threatened invasion of Iran."
W in New Mexico. "When I was in England, it was commonly held that all Texans are obnoxious, arrogant, loud and usually drunk. I knew that even before I went to England."
Glen in Kingston, Ontario. "Hey Jack, why change? Just stitch the Canadian flag on your backpack. You'll have instant respect wherever you go."
Judy in Rochelle, Illinois. "Since most people on this planet hate Americans, I'm not going to go abroad. I would much rather spend my money here than give it to some lout in Europe. He would just take the money with one hand and give me the finger with the other."
And Libby writes, "On a recent trip to Argentina, a cab driver asked if we were from England. After confessing to being an American, initially he refused to believe us, saying all Americans are fat. You're not fat.
"The moral of the story is, if you don't want to be recognized as Americans overseas, go on a diet." Wolf?
BLITZER: Jack, see you in one hour back here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
To our viewers, we're here weekday afternoons 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern and back at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, only an hour from now. Until then, thanks very much for joining us. I am Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now and Lou is standing by. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf.
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