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American Morning

Britain Reports Three Terror Attacks Thwarted; The Trouble with Iran; Interview with Ed Norton

Aired May 11, 2006 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(NEWSBREAK)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: New information this morning on possible terror attacks in Britain. A top law enforcement official there says they've stopped three attacks since last year's underground bombings. One of those plots was stopped just in the few -- in the last few months. That news comes on the heels of two critical reports, saying that last July's attacks could have been prevented.

CNN's Paula Hancocks live outside the Kings Crossing Station in London this morning. That, of course, was one of the sites of one of the attacks.

Paula, good morning.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Soledad.

Well, two reports are out, and neither one of them puts any single agency or individual to blame for these particular attacks. Now, the report we had out just an hour from John Reid, the home secretary, mentioning two of these suicide bombers are known to have gone to Pakistan. One is known to have relevant training there, and also both are known to have had talks with an al Qaeda figure. But they still don't know how much al Qaeda has been part of the planning of this particular attack, even though they claimed responsibility. So two reports. Many people say they don't go far enough.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Thursday morning rush hour in London, July 7th, 2005. Three suicide bombers simultaneously attack three underground trains. An hour later, a fourth suicide bomber blows the roof off a bus. Fifty-two are killed, 700 injured in Britain's worst- ever terrorist attack.

The intelligence agencies had warned the government an attack of this nature was not a case of if, but when. And in its report on Thursday, parliament's intelligence and security committee said there was no easy answer to the threat.

STEVE PARK, SECURITY ANALYST: While greater resources for the agencies mean a greater chance that attack planning will be identified, it is by no means guaranteed. This is not just a domestic threat that we are facing, but part of international terrorism.

HANCOCKS: Thursday's report does not point the finger of blame at any single agency or individual. It says the sheer number of potential threats being monitored by the intelligence agencies made it difficult to know what to prioritize, and the report claims three terrorist plots have been thwarted since July.

The ringleader, Mohammed Siddique Khan, and fellow suicide bomber Shehzad Tanweer, were already known to authorities. They were under partial surveillance before the attacks. But this report claims their identities had not been confirmed, and security services had understandably shifted their focus elsewhere.

CRISPIN BLACK, FMR. GOVT. INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I think that the report is right to not blame any individual service. But it is perhaps a bit too forgiving of the fact there was systemic failure, and those systems failures need to be addressed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HANCOCKS: So a lack of resources and the level -- high level of threat to blame. Also suggestions that they will change the terror list system, which embarrassingly, was lowered just before this attack happened -- Soledad?

S. O'BRIEN: Paula Hancocks for us this morning. Paula, thank you for the update -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Iran's nuclear standoff with the world might be taking a new turn -- might. The United Nations is holding off on the stick for now, economic sanctions, while the Europeans try to craft some carrots, a package of benefits to encourage the Iranians to cease and desist making nuclear fuel.

The standoff offers an interesting historical parallel to another crisis in Iran, the one we may or may not remember, depending on our age. The one that began in 1979 involving the hostages.

Author Mark Bowden has spent years researching this chapter of history. He's out with a fascinating new book. It's called "Guests of the Ayatollah," the subtitle, "The First Battle in America's War with Militant Islam." Mark Bowden joining us here now. You may remember him from the "Black Hawk Down." We hope you remember that one, as well.

Mark, good to have you with us.

MARK BOWDEN, AUTHOR, "GUESTS OF THE AYATOLLAH": Thank you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the parallels here. I find it very interesting how you make some historical links between what happened in '79 and what's happening now. In both cases, it was an effort on the part of the religious leaders, the mullahs of Iran, to exert their authority and using the United States sort of as an evil foil.

BOWDEN: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: Explain how that works. BOWDEN: Well, the -- you know, in 1979, after the revolution, it wasn't by any means guaranteed that the mullahs were going to prevail. There was a real power struggle going on with secular political leaders. Taking the embassy essentially rallied public support behind the radical agenda of the mullahs. And today I think the mullahs in Iran find themselves in trouble. They're a very unpopular regime. I think this fight that they've picked with the United States is partly designed to rally public support and national sentiment.

M. O'BRIEN: So Ahmadinejad is serving the interest of the mullahs right now to consolidate power because they see a lot of secular interests growing in Iran, correct?

BOWDEN: That's right. And, you know -- and he's the natural person to do it, because he was one of the student leaders involved in planning the takeover of the American embassy 25 years ago.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you convinced of that, by the way? When that first came out, there was some debate as to whether that was just mistaken identity. Of course, many of the hostages would swear on a stack of bibles that that was him.

BOWDEN: Right. And I don't really regard their memories as convincing, frankly, or the photograph of him. It may or may not be him. But I was in Iran for the last five years, finding these Iranian hostage-takers and asking them who were the ringleaders. And for years, you know, he's been identified right away as one of the key players. I tried to interview him in Tehran when he was the mayor, and he refused to talk about it.

M. O'BRIEN: Isn't that remarkable, though, that you would have somebody involved in that terrorist activity as the president of a country? And that's the person that the West is dealing with right now.

BOWDEN: But it isn't that remarkable because, you know, that regime was born in those months of the takeover of the American embassy. And Ahmadinejad is only one of the key players in the embassy takeover who have high positions in the government, including Masame Eptucar (ph), who was their spokesman, and Habibollah Bitaraf, who's the minister of energy now in Iran. He was one of the key players.

M. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this. Does the U.S. play into the mullahs and Ahmadinejad's hand by acting the way it does? In other words, if you don't provide that foil, they're not able to use the U.S. and not able to consolidate power the way they'd want to?

BOWDEN: It does to an extent. I mean, I do think it's a very legitimate concern being asked about Iran possessing nuclear weapons. But by the same token, you know, to the extent that we are willing to play this role as their arch enemy in the world, you know, it helps, I think, the mullahs rally national sentiment.

M. O'BRIEN: Now you traveled with your cousin, who's a filmmaker. And there's -- what -- I guess a corresponding work that's appearing on Discovery. I think it's a four hour documentary?

BOWDEN: That's right.

M. O'BRIEN: We have 27 seconds we're going to show right now, just a brief excerpt. Let's listen for a minute.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The images of the hostages being led out of the chancery building, these humiliating images of the United States being brought to its knees in a symbolic fashion, would be sent out and broadcast all over the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's just something about middle-aged adults being blindfolded by a bunch of college kids. I don't think most of us really thought that the government would allow these kids to come in and do this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: You know, here's what comes through loud and clear in your book. How few options Jimmy Carter had as president then. And you could make a case that really today President Bush has very few options in dealing with Iran.

BOWDEN: He does. Although I would say that President Bush has a little bit more flexibility than Jimmy Carter because, you know, Delta Force and the whole special operations community that the unit that went out and tried to rescue mission didn't even exist prior to 1979, and in fact, had just gone through its sort of demonstration exercises the day the embassy was taken. So they weren't prepared. The United States really had no direct option for getting the hostages out of Iran.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. We're talking about the failed attempt to rescue the hostages and the debacle at Desert One, which you just saw some pictures of, which you go into in great chapter and verse in this book. It is truly amazing to me how complicated that plan was and how audacious it was.

BOWDEN: It is. And, you know, they were asked to begin planning it on the day of the takeover, and they really had nothing to work with. The original plan called for just parachuting soldiers into the outskirts of Tehran, stealing trucks, driving them to the embassy. I mean, it was absurd. In fact, they started the briefing by saying we really hope we don't have to do this.

M. O'BRIEN: Final thought there. The one thing that comes through in this irony -- I hear it time and again. The average Iranian likes Americans.

BOWDEN: Very much.

M. O'BRIEN: How do you jive that with what rhetoric we hear from the government? BOWDEN: Well, you know, the revolution was a very popular one in 1979. Twenty-five years later, people are not happy in Iran living under this theocracy. But it's a very authoritarian one. They lock people up who disagree with the government. They've thrown all the reformers out of the government. So the question is, how long can an unpopular authoritarian regime hold on to power. And I think the answer, sadly, is a long time.

M. O'BRIEN: Mark Bowden with "The Philadelphia Inquirer," "Atlantic" magazine. He writes fantastic books. This one is one you want to pick up. Great job.

BOWDEN: Thank you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Always a pleasure having you drop by. "Guests of the Ayatollah: The First Battle in America's War With Militant Islam" -- Soledad.

Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: It is just about 20 minutes before the hour.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Tell us a little bit about Pipeline, Miles, and what happens at 10:30 this morning in your office.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you kind of over the teases? All right, 10:30, Miles-cam.

S. O'BRIEN: That was true enthusiasm.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

AM@CNN.com is the place to send your question. We'll give you a sampling in just a little bit as a matter of fact. There's the office. You know the drill by now. Pipeline is the place, CNN.com/pipeline is the place to get the answers, 10:30 Eastern Time.

Do you have a question, Andy?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: You need some artwork, dude.

S. O'BRIEN: That's like a window. You can't hang something.

M. O'BRIEN: Kind of rice paper, yes.

S. O'BRIEN: You can't hang something there.

SERWER: You can't put anything there?

S. O'BRIEN: No, it won't support it.

SERWER: OK, all right. My bad. Sorry about that.

M. O'BRIEN: If we drove a nail through the glass we'd hear from it from the boss on that one, wouldn't we?

Anyway -- Andy.

SERWER: Miles, Soledad, we are going tell you about the hottest stock on Wall Street. It's the Google of natural fruit juices. There is something in that grapefruit soda. You won't believe this story, coming up next.

S. O'BRIEN: Fresca.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

S. O'BRIEN: CNN LIVE TODAY is coming up next.

Hey, Daryn. Good morning. What are you working on?

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Soledad, good morning to you. There is new outrage in New Orleans this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been real frustrating. I give up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: An elderly man lives in a tent inside of his destroyed home. FEMA gave him a trailer, but he can't get the keys. That heartbreaking story.

Gerri Willis will be along with the top five tips. Summer temperature can scorch your electricity bills. Stay here to how to learn the way to beat the blister.

And then there's this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN: They say that President Bush actually can speak Spanish, but not very well. In other words, about the same as English.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: They really know how to kick a guy when he's down. The president's poll numbers sink, the jokes rise like a rocket. All that and a lot more coming up beginning at the top of the hour.

For now, back to you.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Daryn, thank you very much.

A short break. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) S. O'BRIEN: His new movie, "Down in the Valley," is dark. Edward Norton plays an old-school cowboy in modern-day San Fernando Valley. His character, Harlan Carruthers (ph), begins an innocent romance with a sultry but sort of aimless teenager, which is played by Evan Rachel Wood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARD NORTON, ACTOR, "DOWN IN THE VALLEY": We advertise full service. So we've got to give full service.

EVAN RACHEL WOOD, ACTRESS, "DOWN IN THE VALLEY": Are you for real?

NORTON: What?

WOOD: Are you for real?

NORTON: I think so. Want to get a squeeze?

WOOD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's real!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Edward Norton joins us. Nice to see you.

NORTON: How are you? Thanks.

S. O'BRIEN: Evan Rachel Wood plays sort of the typical teenager, struggling with teenage angst and loneliness and where is my place in the world. And Harlan, your character, tell me about him.

NORTON: He's a bit of a mystery because he -- when she meets him, he seems like a very displaced person, a person from almost a different time or a different place.

S. O'BRIEN: Cowboy in suburbia.

NORTON: A cowboy in the modern, urban landscape. And he's very poetic and very romantic. And he really -- he helps this girl and her brother start finding more of a romantic sense of themselves, and he gives them a sense of history and a sense of nature and all kind of stuff.

But as it goes on, the onion sort of peels away and you begin to realize that he is himself somebody who is not all that he seems to be and is maybe trying to escape some of his own frustrations.

S. O'BRIEN: The onion's kind of rotten at the core, at end of the day.

NORTON: Yes. He's not all he seems to be.

S. O'BRIEN: It's dark, as we say. NORTON: It is.

S. O'BRIEN: I don't want to give away the ending.

NORTON: No, but I -- it's funny; I've been watching people's reactions to it and they are very -- people feel very torn about this character. The director said an interesting thing to me when we started -- he said, you know, if, at the end, the audience can feel like the children do, which is deeply confused about the mixed feelings they have about this person --

S. O'BRIEN: He's not all bad.

NORTON: Not at all.

S. O'BRIEN: But he's certainly not as good as you think he is, when he starts.

NORTON: Yes. He's much more than he seems to be and I think -- but in that sense, you know, I think one of the things I really appreciate about this filmmaker is that he's -- I think he's embracing the kind of contradictory aspects of life. Life is beautiful and sweet and full of love, and then also sometimes it's incredibly painful. And he's kind of taken all of that and embodied it in this character.

S. O'BRIEN: You could tell the visual message, too, which is -- you talk about contradictions, because here he is a cowboy. He's out of his element, and then you have these vast, open scenes. And then houses dot -- it's the same exact house over and over and over again, which is the landscape of Southern California.

NORTON: It is a Western in that sense. Visually, David -- he's made a true Western. It's a big, anamorphic, beautiful, -- like you said, it's full of vistas of that Western landscape. It was really interesting to me the way he wanted to explore both, you know, our dreams about what it was or what it might have been, versus what it has become now and what that's doing to people.

S. O'BRIEN: Ed Norton -- it's a great film. It's really beautifully shot, because the vistas really are a lot of the movie, but then also -- I don't know, I vote he's not -- he's less good and more bad. But that's me. You'll have to watch it for yourself to decide.

The film is called "Down in the Valley." It's nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us.

NORTON: Thank you. Thanks for taking the time.

S. O'BRIEN: Appreciate it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Many questions raised now about the NSA and phone records, as apparently have been collected from phone companies. It's all breaking news today. The story comes out, in fact, of USA Today. Senator Patrick Leahy is the ranking Democrat of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Let's listen to what he had to say this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY, RANKING MEMBER, JUDICIARY CMTE: ... database of Americans' phone calls. Shame on us, in being so far behind and being so willing to rubber-stamp anything this administration does. The Republican-controlled Congress refuses to ask questions, and so we have to pick up the paper to find out what is going on. We ought to fold our tents and steal away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Leahy is angry, and he's right. It's right on the front page of the USA Today. This story, of course, we'll be covering here all morning on CNN.

Let's get right down to Miles, because he, of course, is on PIPELINE once again today.

Hey, Miles. Let's have a quick question for you -- we only have a couple moments left before the day ends for us.

Here's a question: This person writes, "In this computerized day and age, why don't aircraft broadcast black box data in realtime to storage places on the ground?" That way, you know -- this letter goes on -- "if there's a crash or some kind of critical situation, you don't have to worry about searching for the information, you have it already in hand."

M. O'BRIEN: That's a great idea. As a matter of fact, there is capability that would make it possible, not only for that telemetry to be streamed as the plane is flying along, but also you can have a capability in the airplane for people on the ground to actually fly the aircraft and also do the diagnostics. The space program has been sending out real-time telemetry forever.

The real issue is setting up some sort of network -- ground or satellite or whatever -- to receive this data, and then thinking of a way to channel and store all of that data. It's a matter of dollars and cents, and look at how the airline industry is doing right now -- not so good. Adding costs like this -- the time is not right, needless to say, for that.

Although you can imagine what kind of safety that would provide.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, Miles, we're out of time here on AMERICAN MORNING. But everybody else that wants to talk to you can go check you out on PIPELINE this morning, starting at 10:30.

Thanks, Miles --

M. O'BRIEN: Please do -- see you.

S. O'BRIEN: And we'll send it to Daryn Kagan. She's at the CNN Center.

Hey, Daryn, good morning.

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