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American Morning
Border Shooting; New Cancer Vaccine; Relationships in Your 30s, 40s, 50s
Aired May 19, 2006 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Peter Viles at the Mexican border at San Ysidro, California, where an investigation continues into a fatal shooting. American law officials shot and killed a man they suspected of being an immigrant smuggler. I'll have that story coming up
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Should you vaccinate your 9-year-old daughter against a sexually transmitted disease? I'll have -- I'll have some answers coming up.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: More rain in the forecast for New England. Just what they need. The rivers over the banks and the ground waterlogged.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm meteorologist Rob Marciano in the CNN weather center, tracking the radar. That's the rain that Miles talked about. It's heading into those flood-prone areas. A complete forecast is coming up.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And we are focusing in oon relationships in your 30s and your 40s and your 50s, the search for Mr. or Ms. Right.
A special hour ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
M. O'BRIEN: Good morning, everybody. Good to have you with us on this AMERICAN MORNING Friday.
S. O'BRIEN: That's right. It is Friday. I'm Soledad O'Brien.
M. O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien.
President Bush punctuated his border visit Thursday with a formal request for National Guard troops. That, while the Senate moves closer to an immigration reform bill, including a guest worker program.
Meanwhile, the country's busiest entry point to and from Mexico is open once again after a shooting there involving a suspected immigrant smuggler.
CNN's Peter Viles is live now at the San Ysidro border crossing. That's between San Diego and Tijuana. It's the busiest border crossing in the world.
Peter, give us the latest. VILES: And the border crossing back open, Miles, this morning. It was closed most of the night after this shooting.
The chase started about five miles away. The Border Patrol was chasing a man who was driving a black SUV. They believe that in that black SUV were immigrants who have been smuggled into the country.
The chase headed straight toward Mexico. No doubt this guy was trying to drive to Mexico. But when he got close to the border, about 100 feet away, he hit some traffic.
Here's how local police describe what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. KEVIN ROONEY, SAN DIEGO POLICE: As traffic backed up near the border, the suspect vehicle stopped on the shoulder just to our right. That would be on the west side of Interstate 5 southbound. An agent attempted to contact the driver of the stopped vehicle, and to get him to step out of the vehicle. The driver did not comply.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VILES: Did not comply. And furthermore, please say jerked to the left as if he was going to try to make a run for the border. That's when the shooting started.
Two different American law officials shot this man. He was killed and declared dead instantly in the vehicle. The five others in that vehicle were taken into custody for questioning, Miles. We still don't know the facts of whether they were, in fact, illegal immigrants who were being smuggled across the border.
M. O'BRIEN: Peter, any time you get into law enforcement in that part of the world there's all kinds of issues of hot pursuit and when is it appropriate, jurisdictional issues, when is it appropriate to use deadly force. Can you boil down the rules for us and give us a sense of what the rules are of engagement?
VILES: Sure. The Border Patrol rules are very similar to rules most police departments have. You use deadly force only when either a Border Patrol agent's life is in danger or an innocent bystander's life is in danger.
We need to know more about this situation to know if that was the case. But clearly, if this guy was driving into traffic while he was surrounded by agents on foot, they may have felt their lives were in danger.
I would also add, Miles, the Border Patrol is known for showing great restraint in a lot of situations. On this border close to San Diego, they are often stoned, rocks are thrown at them and their vehicles, and they can't fire back and they can't go across the border when these troublemakers are throwing rocks at them. So as a force they are known for showing restraint in a lot of situations.
M. O'BRIEN: Peter Viles, on the border, San Ysidro crossing.
Thank you very much -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Obviously, immigration reform is what many, many people are talking about now, and that's drawing a lot of attention on Capitol Hill. The Senate last night defeated an amendment to the immigration bill that would have kept guest workers from getting a pass to citizenship. The Senate also amended the bill to make English the national language.
President Bush asking Congress for almost $2 billion for his immigration plan. That plan includes using National Guard troops to help the Border Patrol out. The president toured a border site on Thursday in Yuma, Arizona, and said he does not support amnesty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know we've got to enforce our border, but I'm also realistic. There are some -- look, amnesty to me means you're an automatic citizen. And I'm not advocating that. There's some in -- some in the Democratic Party might be advocating that, but I'm certainly not.
On the other hand, I recognize there have been people here for a long period of time. And it doesn't make any sense to try to deport millions of people. And so there ought to be a way for people to pay a fine or learn the English language, and then get in the citizenship line, but at the back, not at the front. Instead of sneaking across, it seems like it makes sense to me, in order to help our Border Patrol to do the job, there's a rational way for them to come on a temporary basis, provided they pass a criminal background check.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: Last year, 70,000 people who were trying to enter the U.S. illegally were caught in Yuma -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Happening "In America" today, the FBI back this morning at that Michigan horse farm searching for the remains of former Teamsters' boss Jimmy Hoffa. Hoffa last seen about 30 years ago. The FBI says the search could take two weeks or more.
A hero's widow facing possible deportation. The husband died Sunday while trying to rescue two boys caught in a rip current off of San Francisco. The couple was married recently and did not file permanent residency papers. The widow may now be deported to Kenya.
Cleanup day for parts of Kentucky. A storm with 80-mile-an-hour winds swept across Taylor County, injuring five, damaging businesses in Campbellsville. Three people had to be rescued from a damaged store.
Checking the damage, assessment teams are spreading out across Massachusetts right now -- Maine and New Hampshire as well. They're checking for damage from the worst flooding there in 70 years. Flooding is such a problem in Lawrence, Massachusetts, authorities have enacted a 9:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. curfew.
That brings us to the forecast. Rob Marciano in for Chad Myers -- Rob
MARCIANO: Hi, Miles.
(WEATHER REPORT)
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Rob. Thanks.
Big news for cancer prevention to tell you about. There's a new vaccine, and it has potentially the power to prevent 70 percent of cervical cancer cases. It could soon be made available to the public.
Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is at the CNN Center. She has details for us this morning.
Hey, Elizabeth. Good morning.
COHEN: Good morning, Soledad.
Soledad, we're all used to bringing our children in to get vaccinated against measles or mumps. This would be a first, bringing your child in to get vaccinated against cancer. Here's how the vaccine would work.
The plan would be to vaccinate girls at young as 9 years old, and the reason for that is that this would prevent cervical cancer. And you're trying to get girls before they become sexually active.
This would protect against 70 percent of cervical cancers by fighting two strains of the Human Papilloma Virus. That causes cervical cancer. It would also help prevent against genital warts.
Now, this is very interesting, because this is a cancer that is caused by a virus. So you can actually vaccinate against it.
A panel within the FDA recommended approval yesterday. The full FDA is expected to look at it within the next few weeks. One big issue is cost. The shot costs between $300 and $500. Not clear if insurance would pay for it -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Another big issue was the controversy, frankly. There were certain groups that thought that this would be inappropriate if you have to vaccinate your children, of course, your girls, when they're fairly young.
COHEN: Right. Some religious groups said, what kind of a message are we giving children? We're giving them a shot before they become sexually active. Sometimes way, way before they become sexually active. It may make them feel like it would be OK to be promiscuous.
However, those voices have not been all that loud. They weren't very loud at the recent FDA hearings. It will be interesting to see if those voices get louder as time goes by. S. O'BRIEN: Elizabeth Cohen for us this morning.
Elizabeth, thanks.
COHEN: Thanks.
S. O'BRIEN: Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Love and marriage and sometimes...
S. O'BRIEN: Baby carriage.
M. O'BRIEN: And the baby carriage and all that stuff, yes. You can hum along with me. And sometimes when things don't go so well.
That's what we're talking about the rest of this hour. Here's a little preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OLIVIA HUSSEY, ACTRESS, "ROMEO AND JULIET": Parting is such sweet sorrow that I shall say goodnight 'till it be morrow.
M. O'BRIEN (voice over): Things didn't end so well for Romeo and Juliet, but they sure had a great relationship while it lasted. Sadly, not too many of us can say the same. Over two million people got married in 2004, but about half in first marriages end in divorce.
With so many single people out there, one might guess there's also a lot of dating going on. In fact, match.com, one of the Internet's largest dating sites, says baby boomers are the fastest- growing group on the site. But looking for love and finding it are two different things in our prime.
It seems the older we get, the less we date. One study found that nearly 86 percent of 18-year-olds go out at least once a week. That's compared to about 68 percent of 32-year-olds. Can having a relationship in your 30s, 40s and 50s lead to happily ever after?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: A little Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes for you here. Good Friday music. The sound of Philadelphia.
Oh god, coming up...
S. O'BRIEN: That wasn't Barry White?
M. O'BRIEN: No. No. That's Teddy Pendergrass, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes.
Right?
S. O'BRIEN: Wasn't it -- no. It's so Barry White. Wrong.
M. O'BRIEN: No, no, no. You want to bet? S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Twenty dollars.
M. O'BRIEN: It is Barry White. You're right.
(LAUGHTER)
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Up next -- I didn't shake.
How do -- how do you...
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: Liar.
M. O'BRIEN: ... in your 30s, 40s and 50s? Why are we still attracted -- why do we lose our memory when we get to be high 40s, for example?
All these things are on the docket for our experts, I think, if I can recall the number, which is 877-AM6-1300. AM@CNN.com is the e- mail spot.
We'll be back with our experts in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: So who's not looking for Miss or Mr. right? Well, I'm not at the moment. I found my Miss Right. So...
S. O'BRIEN: Well, but if you're single, no matter what your age...
M. O'BRIEN: If you're single, yes. Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: ... whether you're 30 or you're 40 or you're 50, actually finding true love can be a real heartache.
E. Jean Carroll is the advice columnist for "Elle" magazine. She joins us this morning. She's also the author of "Mr. Right, Right now!"
John DeVore is a senior associate editor of "MAXIM" magazine.
Nice to see both of you.
JOHN DEVORE, SENIOR ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "MAXIM": Good morning.
S. O'BRIEN: Here, I've got to pose this question to you, because this is the classic question that my girlfriends -- all of us in our, you know, early 40s -- are asking: How come women who are in their early 40s who are smart, who are cute, who are successful, who are nice people -- how come they can't find a guy?
E. JEAN CARROLL, "ELLE" MAGAZINE: They can find a guy.
DEVORE: We're all over the place. CARROLL: Right. Look at this guy. He was out walking in the rain. He was so romantic this morning. We're walking around and around the...
DEVORE: I was just contemplating what I was going to say today about love and romance. I know a lot about women in their early 40s, too.
M. O'BRIEN: So> where are these guys? How do you find them?
CARROLL: OK, here. You want a guy, you go where the guys are. Where are the guys?
DEVORE: The bars.
CARROLL: No, don't go to the bar. There's the sporting events, there's the Mets games, there's the Dodgers games, there's the batting cages in the park. They're on the golf course, right? You go where they are.
M. O'BRIEN: So forget the museum openings. It's not going to work, right?
(CROSSTALK)
DEVORE: No. No art galleries either. But, you know, another thing, though, is maybe in your early 40s you're afraid to go online, where everyone is right now and hiding behind their computers, because you want that wall between you, because no one really goes to the bar anymore or the single bars. No one really goes and does that, so don't be afraid of the Web.
M. O'BRIEN: You mean the bar is dead? I missed that memo. It's gone, huh?
(CROSSTALK)
DEVORE: Well, no, it's not gone.
M. O'BRIEN: Is disco out?
DEVORE: It's not gone. It's just -- it's just creepy.
S. O'BRIEN: It seems like -- how old are you?
DEVORE: You should never ask a lady her age.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, come on. OK. Well it seems like a lot of guys your age up to 99, what they really want is their age minus 20, or their age minus 10.
CARROLL: No, you're right. You're right.
M. O'BRIEN: And the problem is?
S. O'BRIEN: Come on. I mean... (CROSSTALK)
DEVORE: That's a stereotype.
S. O'BRIEN: No, I don't think that's a stereotype.
DEVORE: I think it's a stereotype. I love older goddesses.
CARROLL: You love them, but you want to seize and enjoy a younger woman?
DEVORE: No, I think you're underestimating...
M. O'BRIEN: Demi Moore, Ashton Kutcher, right? That's a classic example right there. She's beautiful, right?
DEVORE: I love younger guys -- because you know what? She's experienced. Because women -- older women have something to offer. They have things.
CARROLL: I didn't know you were into fossil fuels. This is good.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh. Oh, let's get to Myrna. She's on the phone.
(CROSSTALK)
CALLER: Hello?
S. O'BRIEN: Forty-nine -- Myrna, I'm sorry. These two -- our guests won't stop chitchatting so we can get to your question. You're calling us from Indianapolis.
Tell me your situation. What's your question for our experts?
CALLER: Well, I actually am married. I'm 41, and my husband's 57. And he's been diagnosed with Dementia 2.
M. O'BRIEN: Sorry.
CALLER: And it's not made the relationship very easy whatsoever.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, gosh.
CALLER: In fact, I had a psychiatrist tell me to divorce him or put him in a psychiatric nursing home, to his face actually.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, my gosh. So you're really...
CALLER: And that happened five years ago, and pretty much stuck the relationship down the drain.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh my gosh. One could imagine.
So let's turn to our expert. I mean, in a way what she's talking about is that when you're dating between the generations, as everybody ages, you really could have potentially some real problems.
CARROLL: For the caller, what's your first name?
S. O'BRIEN: I don't know that we still have her -- Myrna.
CARROLL: Oh. See, I think when you get married, you make your deal. I think you stick with the man. I think -- you know, hey may be very ill, but there's still parts of his personality that are there that she fell in love with at the beginning. I think she can stick with the deal. I think she can have a full life.
M. O'BRIEN: Sickness and in health, all that stuff, right? Yes.
CARROLL: I think you stick by your man.
DEVORE: I agree. You know, my father suffered through a long- term illness, and my mother stood by him. And it was one of the most beautiful things. It really has defined what I think of in terms of marriage. One gets sick, you stick by them. You do make your deal.
CARROLL: Now, she is obviously suffering. So you turn to your friends, you take up -- you go -- you take up a sport, you go have some fun. You -- you know, go to the spa, you enjoy your life. But I don't think you follow this screwy doctor's advice about leaving...
S. O'BRIEN: Find another doctor. If there's any good advice, it's that.
Let me read an e-mail to you. This is from Sara. She lives in L.A.
"I look really young and work odd hours. Long story short, I had a cute flirtation with a guy at the coffee store near my office. He asked me out the other day and I found out he's not even 21."
"I'm 33. I get carded for R-rated movies. How do I tell him I'm too old for him, I cannot date a 20-year-old without making my daily coffee fix awkward?"
M. O'BRIEN: I wouldn't say a thing.
S. O'BRIEN: She's saying she doesn't want to date the guy at Starbucks. She's worried it's going to ruin her coffee later when they break up.
DEVORE: She's not too -- you know what? People are getting trapped into the stereotyping that guys only like young women. That is -- that is not right. I say, god bless her. She should go after him. I think she should rock the 21-year-old.
CARROLL: Let's just have a round of applause for that lucky woman.
M. O'BRIEN: Really. I mean, really, that's -- she's -- these are the kinds of problems you want in life, right? S. O'BRIEN: Some people will say -- I mean, I've had friends who will say, you know, well, you're being too picky. Well, I was dating -- when I was single and I was dating, I would say, being too picky, do you think there's a thing as too picky?
CARROLL: No, no. Of course you're too picky because it's a very -- you're doing the most important -- you're doing the thing that you're on this earth for. You're choosing a mate to have children, so the pickier you are the better it is.
Right, Miles, you were very, very picky before you got married.
M. O'BRIEN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
CARROLL: And Soledad, it certainly has worked out well for you. She has...
(CROSSTALK)
M. O'BRIEN: Now she's got the pick of the litter.
CARROLL: You picked right.
S. O'BRIEN: You're not picky?
DEVORE: No. No.
CARROLL: You are picky. You are very, very picky.
S. O'BRIEN: But shouldn't the strategy be -- but shouldn't the strategy be, be less picky, date a wide range of people who may not fit your sort of stereotypical...
DEVORE: Well, there is -- there is something to be said for the buckshot theory. And something...
S. O'BRIEN: And what is the buckshot theory?
DEVORE: You know, you just -- you just -- it's a wider shot. Try to kill as many quail as you can. Open up your heart and just date. Look, if you're going to commit to dating, commit to dating, and you go out and you see what...
S. O'BRIEN: What's out there.
M. O'BRIEN: Bag some quail. All right.
CARROLL: I disagree. I think you do the opposite.
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, we're -- you know what?
M. O'BRIEN: We're heading to trouble. Let's just change gears, shall we?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. We need to right now and remind people that they can send us e-mail messages. Also, their phone calls.
The number is right there, 877-AM6-1300, or the e-mail address, AM@CNN.com. Have a question for our experts?
Back after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: That's a lot of people on those online dating sites. That's a good -- that might be a good business, that online dating thing.
(CROSSTALK)
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, yes. Right, that's it. Dot-com is big, too.
S. O'BRIEN: We're back with our experts, E. Jean Carroll, who's got a gossip -- gossip column -- an advice column in "Elle" magazine. Also, John DeVore of "MAXIM".
Let's talk about Internet dating, in fact. It's huge. But there are a lot of people in their 30s and 40s and 50s who don't feel that comfortable going there yet.
CARROLL: Oh, please. The one place to go when you're in your 50s if you want to have a panoply, a smorgasbord of really adorable, available people, you go online.
M. O'BRIEN: Really?
CARROLL: And I'll tell you why.
M. O'BRIEN: To one of these official sites, or...
CARROLL: Way less shallow, way less shallow, because you get to know the person, you exchange e-mails. You find out if you have the same interests. Do you like to walk in the rain? Things like that.
DEVORE: I love to walk in the rain, alone, brooding. I'm a brooder.
CARROLL: And then you go into Starbucks, and you either...
M. O'BRIEN: You meet them in Starbucks? Is that what you do? Mutual ground.
CARROLL: You either fall out of the tree on your head, you know, that bang feeling, that fabulous -- or you just have a friend. So it is a marvelous way to meet people.
DEVORE: It's a great screening process.
CARROLL: Right. Right.
DEVORE: But the downside, though, is that you get that photo of when they're 22... M. O'BRIEN: Sure.
DEVORE: ... and many they've lost an eye since then and have a mustache.
M. O'BRIEN: Not that there's anything wrong with that.
DEVORE: No. Look, there are something -- something for everybody.
S. O'BRIEN: We've got a question from a viewer. This is Claudio. He lives in New York City. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wonder if the girls around 25, 30s, they're in a hurry to get into relationships.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, Claudio. He doesn't want -- he doesn't want a relationship.
M. O'BRIEN: He's a wild and crazy guy, that Claudio.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVORE: Well, no, I mean, I think the trend now is that women are encouraged at least to pursue career before that kind of quaint notion of getting married and having kids early, young. I mean, no one's getting married young. No one...
CARROLL: Here's a delicious statistic.
DEVORE: I love delicious statistics.
CARROLL: Everybody -- all women and all men, 95 percent of them, are married by the time they're 50. So the women...
M. O'BRIEN: Is that true? That's a statistic, yes?
CARROLL: The U.S. Bureau of Statistics.
(CROSSTALK)
CARROLL: Isn't that amazing? It gives me such solace. Just think, 95 percent of everybody is married by the age of 50. So the women who are frantic at 25...
M. O'BRIEN: Or if you're unmarried, you would feel like...
DEVORE: So once you hit 50, you're out of luck?
CARROLL: No. That means you'll be married at least once by the time you reach 50. S. O'BRIEN: A question for you. How do you avoid that sort of feeling I think a lot of women have as we climb through our late 30s and into 40s of desperation while dating? And maybe the guys have it, too, but I don't sense it as much from the men.
CARROLL: You've got time.
S. O'BRIEN: You know, that sense of, like, "Hi, I need to know if this is going to work out, because if it's not I need to break up with you immediately because I want to have children."
DEVORE: A lot of that is sort of social pressure to breed, to, you know, become a wife. And, you know, that part of life is not just giving anything...
S. O'BRIEN: Good editing on your part.
DEVORE: Pretty much. I have a strong internal sensor. Not caring what society says about you. You know, you just live your life, and if love strikes you, it strikes you. And you're lucky.
CARROLL: Just stop. Just take your time. You know, take the pressure off yourself.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, the pressure -- it's more than internal pressure. The pressure comes from parents. It comes from...
DEVORE: Right.
M. O'BRIEN: There's a lot of pressure points here.
S. O'BRIEN: And your friends.
M. O'BRIEN: And expectations, right?
(CROSSTALK)
CARROLL: That odor of desperation is such a turnoff.
M. O'BRIEN: Desperate.
DEVORE: We're talking about being picky. When you have that kind of pressure, you become a lot less picky and you start to make bad choices. I mean, I know there are a lot of people who should not get married.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. So, to sum it up, is it better to stay unmarried than to go -- to lower the bar?
CARROLL: The thing is to be self-reliant and really like yourself a lot. And have -- you know, it's all -- it's not about getting a boyfriend, getting a boyfriend, getting a boyfriend. It's about liking who you are and having a little character, and just calming down, because it will happen. Just relax.
It's not a trance. Well, it is sort of a trance. M. O'BRIEN: Oh my goodness.
DEVORE: I love manic depressives.
M. O'BRIEN: We've talked too much about single people. When we come back, we're going to talk about marriages and how you keep a marriage vital, right?
DEVORE: Sure.
M. O'BRIEN: Are you up for that?
CARROLL: I've been married many times. I can talk about this.
S. O'BRIEN: And divorce, too, because I can thrown another statistic at you as well.
I mean, you were (INAUDIBLE). As you know, more than half of marriages end in divorce.
CARROLL: I know.
S. O'BRIEN: So we'll talk about all that just ahead with our panel of experts.
If you have a question, be sure to e-mail us at AM@CNN.com. Or the number on our screen right there, 877-AM6-1300. Call us. Operators are standing by, as we like to say.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
(BUSINESS HEADLINES)
S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, we' continue our special series. We're talking about your 30s, and your 40s and your 50s, and we're talking about relationships. Want to give us a call? 1-877-AM6-1300. Call us right now. Or you can e-mail us anytime AM@CNN.com.
A short break. We're back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
M. O'BRIEN: Welcome back. Good to have you with us. E. Jean Carroll, advice columnist "Elle" magazine, "Mr. Right, Right Now," because you know, we are Americans. We want it right now. And John Devore, senior associate editor of "Maxim" magazine. Before we get to divorce, we should spend a few moments on marriage. We've talked about relationships in general. You, of all of us, have had the most experience in marriage, right?
CARROLL: Yes, I've been married the normal amount.
M. O'BRIEN: Which is?
CARROLL: Twice.
M. O'BRIEN: OK, which is on average.
CARROLL: Two divorces, yes. And I love both my ex-husbands.
M. O'BRIEN: What knowledge can you impart to married couples to keep their relationships fresh and vital? That's a big one, I know.
CARROLL: When you get married -- OK. You should really ask Soledad this, but I will weigh in. When you get married, you make your deal, and you just decide you're going to stay married. The reason people don't stay married is because they think something better is going to come along. They get a little irritated. The kids change your whole perspective, and you get more annoyed because you're more stressed, and you blame it on the husband or the wife, and boom, the marriage ends. Not a good way to do it.
M. O'BRIEN: It's those years in the 40s, in particular, I think, where the kids are really demanding, time, money, everything, and then the parents also are requiring a lot of attention. Stress on a marriage is very difficult.
CARROLL: They...
M. O'BRIEN: How do you deal with it?
CARROLL: I have the perfect way.
M. O'BRIEN: What is it? Booze?
CARROLL: Booze? It's vodka, margaritas.
(CROSSTALK)
CARROLL: Instead of saying -- instead of -- sort of enter into the moment, take care of that moment. Just say you're just stressed beyond --enter that moment. Just be in that. Soledad mentioned her children go to the park and get on the swings. You know, just...
S. O'BRIEN: I said, no. I said, mommy's too tired. I can't take you to the park, and I took a nap.
(CROSSTALK)
M. O'BRIEN: So embrace the nap, in your case.
CARROLL: Embrace that nap. Love that nap.
S. O'BRIEN: Can I read an e-mail. This is from Nancy. You guys have this e-mail? Let's pop it up on the screen. Are they're any statistics, Nancy, writes, on late-in-life marriages that suggest they have a higher success ratio than marriages between young persons?" Is it more likely to work if you're older, or is it more likely they are not going work because you're older?
DEVORE: I'm 31, and it's not working, though, I'm hoping. Well, I mean, you get to that age.
CARROLL: Last night, I actually got off my lazy, lazy, lazy butt and did some research. The later you marry, the longer your marriage will last.
DEVORE: Because you're too tired to get divorced.
M. O'BRIEN: But there's a certain amount of common sense in that.
CARROLL: And if you're still married at 60, you're going to make it all the way to the end.
M. O'BRIEN: So you get to 60, it's all downhill.
CARROLL: That's it.
DEVORE: But isn't, though, that you get to a certain point in your life that you just don't care what the media and everyone's telling you and you just become more comfortable with yourself? Please tell me this.
CARROLL: Yes, and you get wiser; if you're smart, you get wiser, and you know to roll with the punches, and you know you only given one ride between heaven and hell. You go up and down, and you've got to learn how to take the ups and downs. It's, you know...
DEVORE: I'm learning a lot from her today.
M. O'BRIEN: We really for so long in our adult lives are thinking like we're sort of still in high school, don't we? Don't we have that kind of mentality?
DEVORE: I don't think you ever outgrow high school, no matter how old you. You are the dork. You are the jock. You are the strange goth girl.
CARROLL: That's it. It's like, you get bitches, brains,, freaks, geeks, jocks, stars, and wise asses forever. And if you're a brainy girl, you're always going to go for that star jock. Whether you're 20, 30, 40. When you're like 60 and you see that like 65-year- old guy walking by with the golf shirt on, you're thinking, wow, honey.
DEVORE: I feel the exact same way. I've never really gotten over being the star quarterback. It's a burden. I just want to be thought of for my brains.
S. O'BRIEN: Donna, who is 53 years old, is joining us by phone from Missouri. Hey, Donna, good morning to you. What question do you have for your experts this morning?
DONNA: Well, my husband died in 2001 of cancer...
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
DONNA: And I saw him through to the end. I wouldn't have traded those years for the world. We were married almost 24 years. I had three older children from a previous marriage. And 20 years later we had our own son.
My question is, is that I have children, grandchildren, and they have full lives, and I am around them, and thoroughly enjoy their company. What do I say to the wise asses, if you will, that say, why aren't you getting remarried? Why aren't you dating?
S. O'BRIEN: Interesting question.
M. O'BRIEN: She's getting the pressure at this stage.
DEVORE: I wouldn't even listen to them. I think she's earned the right not to give a care about what anyone says.
S. O'BRIEN: You know, but the truth is, she's speaking the same question that I think women who are in their 30s, and 40s and 50s say, like, you know, why does it have to be, why are you going to law school? Why are you getting married? Why does it be, when, you know, you've been a widow for a while, why aren't you getting married? you're only 50 something years old. You should be married.
CARROLL: See, here's the thing. Society doesn't like to see single women.
S. O'BRIEN: Why not?
CARROLL: It makes us very uncomfortable, because we think, oh, she must be lonely. Is the caller still there?
S. O'BRIEN: Probably not.
CARROLL: She's probably having a fabulous life. She's got children, grandchildren. She's probably doing her clubs. She's got -- she's probably going on her trips. She's probably going to Europe. It makes us very nervous to see a woman alone. A, she can be competition for other women.
DEVORE: And it's also widows, I think, too. I think people are always in a hurry to watch somebody heal.
CARROLL: Other wives don't like that single women around. It's a hard road to hoe. And the thing is say, honey, these the best years of my life, I'm having the time of my life, I had a great husband, I've had it, I've done it, this is it, and now I'm going to head into, you know, the second half of the century.
DEVORE: I'm all for single women.
M. O'BRIEN: We have a caller on the line, Allison, who's in her 30s. She joins us from Washington.
Allison, your question.
ALLISON: Yes, good morning.
M. O'BRIEN: Good morning.
ALLISON: I'm a single African-American woman, and I like dating men of all races, particularly white men, but it still seems that there's kind of a taboo topic. I was just wondering if you could comment on the environment for interracial dating these days as you see it? Is that more acceptable? Are there good options these days? Or is it still going to be tough for women like me?
S. O'BRIEN: Better than it was, my mom and dad when they were dating, interracial dating, in the late 50s was frowned upon, and when they got married, it was illegal in their state. They had to leave their state to get married. So better. It's improved.
M. O'BRIEN: That's an improvement.
DEVORE: My parents were biracial as well. And it was a -- even growing up, I remember getting a lot of weird looks and vibes from people. But Gen Y, I think, especially is the first generation that's really much more comfortable with biracial dating. It's a completely different media (INAUDIBLE) right now. The younger generation is really comfortable with Latinos and blacks, and just much more open- minded about it.
CARROLL: One of my husbands was African-American, sexy, sexy guy. I loved that guy.
M. O'BRIEN: Is the taboo still here, though, in some way?
CARROLL: Oh, yes, because it's, ooh, you're marrying the other, you're with the other; you're with the strange person, and I think it gets people very excited to see it, because we deduce that they're having a very good time in bed.
DEVORE: So we're jealous of them.
CARROLL: No, that's what we deduce when we see different colors, we think, whoa, they are getting it on, and it's true, they are getting it on.
DEVORE: God bless them.
CARROLL: Because they're attracted. They're overcoming hurdles. There has to be something that cements it.
S. O'BRIEN: I think there's good news in that for our caller somewhere.
M. O'BRIEN: I believe so.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, there is.
DEVORE: I say, date up a storm; date as many white guys as you can.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely.
We've got Daryn Kagan standing by. She's going to tell us what she's working this morning.
Hey, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you guys. We're looking at a hearing-impaired janitor. He is feeling the love. His touching story is part of our Friday on CNN LIVE TODAY.
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And it's here.
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M. O'BRIEN: All right, thank you very much. Daryn Kagan. Appreciate that. We'll be watching that. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we'll get into the 'd' word. We'll talk about divorce. We hate to end it all on a down note, but we'll try to come up with a silver lining, if we can, for all this. Our experts are here, and we invite your phone calls and your e-mails. There's the important information.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) M. O'BRIEN: We are back with E. Jean Carroll, the advice columnist for "Elle" magazine, and John Devore, senior associate editor of "Maxim" magazine. Good to have you both with us. A word or two about divorce when things don't go so well in a marriage.
CARROLL: Here's how you heal the pain of divorce. You meet somebody new. You know, we've all had friends, we've all been through where they can't get off the couch because they're so depressed. The secret is, go out, leave the apartment and meet somebody new. That just does away with the pain immediately. That's the secret.
DEVORE: It does away with a lot of pain on many multiple leavings.
M. O'BRIEN: Sounds very simple.
CARROLL: Meet somebody new!
M. O'BRIEN: And meeting them these days...
DEVORE: Or take our advice, go online and meet someone new.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, and going online -- as a matter of fact, our next caller, Diana, has a question related to that. She's met somebody online. Diana, go ahead.
DIANA: I am actually 57. The person I met online is 60, and I'm listening to your statistic about 95 percent of the people marry. Well, this is about two months ago, and this person has never been married. And he told me that he was 50 years old before he decided that he was marriage material. And he's already been through a couple of really major ordeals with me, and has been there -- and just -- he's real family-oriented, he comes from a big family, very close. I've already met all of his family. And I'm just curious what your take was on this.
S. O'BRIEN: In other words, the fact that he's 60 and has never been married, is that a big old red flag, like, this is a guy maybe who shouldn't be married? Or is it that, hey, this is a guy -- the time wasn't right. He admitted that he wasn't ready until his 50s, and he sounds like a great guy.
DEVORE: He's part of that 5 percent. That's a very special 5 percent.
CARROLL: What do you think, Soledad? Seriously.
S. O'BRIEN: I'm a numbers person, so I'd say maybe not marriage material. But I have to say, I know many exceptions to the rule.
And in fact, let's go to this e-mail from Jim. Because I think this is the other side before we answer these questions together. He says "I'm 54 years old and I'm meeting all these women who are chasing the bad boy image. I'm told that I'm a nice guy and it's the kiss of death." So here -- you know, he's the flip side of that. Maybe here's a good guy who maybe wants to be married, and, you know, he's having a similar issue. So let's say -- what do you think? Good guy?
CARROLL: You know, when you're in 50s and this -- you don't have to get married. Why do you want to get married? Why get married? So travel, go to Europe, live together, have a fabulous life. You don't have to get married. You know, she doesn't need that pressure of wondering whether he's going to be a good husband. He sounds like a good guy, doesn't he? Doesn't he, miles?
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, no, all indications point in the -- I would say go with that one. There's nothing there that tells me -- I mean, except for that age issue. But there are a lot of reasons why. Everybody, you know, matures at their own pace, and he's a late bloomer. So be it.
DEVORE: That's something we've been talking about all morning. And it's not just the statistics -- although I love numbers. Who cares what people are telling you? You know, everyone's saying have a wedding, date this, date that. I mean, at the end of the day, you've just got to -- whatever floats your boat, you sail.
S. O'BRIEN: I mean, it sounds like it's important to her to her to be married. It sounds like it's important to this guy, Jim, you know, who'd like...
CARROLL: Go ahead and marry him.
M. O'BRIEN: We say it's a mitzvah. Do it!
CARROLL: Marry him. But the interesting thing you just brought up about the nice guy. Death. Death. Women have to work through that bad boy thing, and then they learn from experience.
DEVORE: Do they have to get over the bad boy thing?
S. O'BRIEN: Yes.
CARROLL: They do.
S. O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
CARROLL: They smarten up.
S. O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
M. O'BRIEN: Sounds like she is. She's over it.
S. O'BRIEN: No, but he's a great guy.
DEVORE: As soon as you get past it.
M. O'BRIEN: We appreciate you women getting over that, definitely. All right, let's get to Tracey on the line. She's -- is it polite to say her age? Tracey, is it polite to say your age? I'll let you do it if you decide if you want to do this. Are you there?
TRACEY: Sure, I'm here. S. O'BRIEN: What's your question for our experts, Tracey?
TRACEY: OK, hi, it's Tracey from Pensacola, Florida. I'm fabulous at 40.
S. O'BRIEN: Yay!
TRACEY: I would like to know why it is that men are attracted to successful, strong, independent women, and after they get into the relationship, (AUDIO GAP) by the woman's success and the relationship ends? What is a woman to do?
S. O'BRIEN: So it starts off that they're -- you know, they find fabulous 40 whatever women wonderful. And then the minute they enter the relationship, suddenly they feel less of a man -- is what her experience is. And I've got to tell you, I've seen that in my girlfriends. You know, that it all starts off great and then suddenly if the woman makes more, if she has a higher-powered job.
DEVORE: I think that's a stereotype. I really do. I love powerful women. And, you know, I love all women, especially those that show up. But more importantly, though, I am not. I am personally not intimidated by more powerful, wealthier, stronger women. I don't -- you know, I like to have dinner bought for me. I like to -- like, the aromatherapy bowls in the bath tub for her. I'm not intimidated, but it's a confidence issue.
CARROLL: I'm intimidated by those women.
M. O'BRIEN: You are?
CARROLL: Those very successful, you know, rich, good looking -- I'm intimidated. Very successful people, you know, make other people nervous. It is a problem, isn't it, Soledad? It's a problem?
S. O'BRIEN: I don't know. I look at my girlfriends, they seem great. They seem great.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVORE: You know what, though, it's not the successful woman's problem. It's the whatever guys that are going to be intimidated by them.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes! Yes.
DEVORE: I mean, it's a confidence issue.
M. O'BRIEN: It's the guy's problem.
DEVORE: It's a confidence issue.
CARROLL: Here's the mistake for the caller. Do not make yourself less to make this guy like you. S. O'BRIEN: It's an excellent point to end on. E. Jean Carroll and John Devore, thank you so much, because we're out of time. Thank you for being our expert panelists today.
CARROLL: This was so much fun!
S. O'BRIEN: Well, thank you. I thought so, too.
(CROSSTALK)
M. O'BRIEN: Thanks very much.
S. O'BRIEN: Coming up at the top of the hour tall, lean, and lanky -- athletic qualities that also, believe it or not, can signal a silent killer inside your body. We're going to tell you about that one.
Also, the big one that didn't get away. A fish tale, coming up. More AMERICAN MORNING right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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