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Senate Prepared to Get Tough With Employers Who Hire Undocumented Workers; New Osama Bin Laden Tape Out

Aired May 24, 2006 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Bob Franken at the White House, where they'll be keeping a close eye on the Senate today. Why? Well, here's a little hint -- immigration and its political implications.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kelli Arena in Washington.

Osama bin Laden releases another audiotape. I'll tell you what was on it and what it all means.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Bag the lines at the airport. Imagine checking your luggage at your hotel. We'll tell you about a new program.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And New York City this weekend and New England pleasant Friday, raining on Saturday and a beautiful end to your Memorial Day. That story coming up.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And are spring allergies making you miserable? We've got some tips to stop your suffering.

All that ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.

M. O'BRIEN: Good morning to you.

I'm Miles O'Brien.

S. O'BRIEN: And I'm Soledad O'Brien.

The Senate prepared to get tough with employers who hire undocumented workers. That's just one part of a bill that's dealing with illegal immigrants. A preliminary vote is scheduled just about three hours from now. The White House is obviously going to pay close attention to the debate. That's happening in the Senate today.

AMERICAN MORNING'S Bob Franken at the White House -- hey, Bob, good morning.

FRANKEN: Good morning.

Well, as the Senate lurches toward its final vote, hopefully tomorrow, as far as the leadership is concerned, the president is watching because it has such significance for him and his presidency and the fate of the Republican Party in the upcoming off-year elections because there is a real tough choice ahead. The Senate is going to pass legislation that the president supports, at least in general terms, legislation that is much less hard line than what the House of Representatives has passed. And there are indications from the House that that's going to be a huge battle, leaving open the possibility that nothing would be done, which would be a black eye for the Republicans in particular, because they control Congress and the White House, or that something would be done that would really hurt the president's base, his conservative base.

In any case, it puts on the spot the Senate majority leader, who knows that there are tough times ahead, even though he expects, ultimately, a victory this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: We will pass a bill. That's just the first step. We still do need to go to the House. It's going to be tough. It's going to take presidential leadership and it's going to take America broadly looking at, fully understanding the implications of what we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: Well, he spoke about presidential leadership. And what's interesting is the president has really gotten involved in this issue, of course, has put his prestige on the line. But what could be at stake here, Soledad, is the last two years of his presidency.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I mean there is a lot at risk.

Do you think that if he does, in fact, lose, the president's not going to be able to recover the base by the midterm elections?

FRANKEN: Well, the conservative base could stay home. That could be really dangerous to a Republican Party that is already on the ropes for a variety of reasons. And if the Democrats would take over even one house of the Congress, that could mean real hard times for the last two years of the Bush presidency.

S. O'BRIEN: It sure could.

All right, Bob Franken for us.

Bob, thanks -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: A major anti-terror operation is now underway in Britain. Police are raiding homes across the country this morning. The target? Anyone who may have taken part in a terror opponent abroad. Right now seven are in custody. This is developing. We'll keep you posted.

There's a new Osama bin Laden tape out this morning and the al Qaeda leader says Zacarias Moussaoui had no role in the 9/11 attacks and neither did most of the detainees held at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay.

CNN's Kelli Arena joining us live now from Washington with more -- Kelli, good morning.

ARENA: Miles, good morning to you.

In his last two messages, Osama bin Laden made very explicit threats. But that's not the case this time. CNN is unable to independently verify that the voice on the tape is Osama bin Laden's. A U.S. intelligence official told us that the recording is being checked to verify its authenticity.

But a U.S. counter-terrorism official told CNN that there's no reason to doubt that it is him.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): The latest audio message is simple, without the usual poetry associated with communications from Osama bin Laden. Clearly conscious of Zacarias Moussaoui's terrorism trial in the U.S. bin Laden says Moussaoui had absolute no role in the September 11th attacks.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

OSAMA BIN LADEN (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I am certain of what I say because I was responsible for entrusting the 19 brothers -- Allah have mercy upon them -- with those raids. And I did not assign brother Zacarias to be with them on that mission.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

ARENA: During his trial, Moussaoui claimed he was supposed fly a fifth plane into the White House and that captured shoe bomber Richard Reid was going to be on his hijacking team.

After being sentenced to life in prison, Moussaoui changed his story and said in a court filing that he lied on the stand. Bin Laden mentions the testimony in an effort, U.S. officials believe, to seem up to date.

FORIA YOUNIS, FORMER FBI AGENT: He clearly is showing that he's still out there. He wants to be in the news. He wants to comment on the Moussaoui investigation.

ARENA: Bin Laden also spoke about the 500 or so detainees held at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. He claims none of them have any connection to 9/11 either.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BIN LADEN (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): And even stranger is that many of them have no connection with al Qaeda in the first place. And even more amazing is that some of them oppose al Qaeda's methodology of calling for war with America.

ARENA: Officials believe at least one person being held in Guantanamo, Mohamed al-Kahtani, was connected to 9/11. The U.S. government and the 9/11 Commission concluded he was meant to be the 20th hijacker, but couldn't get into the United States.

Bin Laden hasn't been seen on video since October of 2004. This message, like other recent ones that have been released, was audio only.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

ARENA: Now, the al Qaeda production company, al-Sahab, says that this tape was made in May. Now, we don't know when it was made. It could have been made any time since Moussaoui confessed back in March -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Kelli Arena in Washington.

Thank you.

Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Convicted snipers John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo face off in court again today. Malvo is testifying for the prosecution and already has had some very stunning things to say.

Let's get right to CNN's Kathleen Koch.

She's at the courthouse in Rockville, Maryland -- hey, Kathleen, good morning.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

And it was truly chilling after what we all experienced here in the Washington, D.C. area back in 2002 to hear this young man, Lee Boyd Malvo, now 21, describe that they had even worse plans to terrorize the entire area, that he and John Allen Muhammad had planned to conduct basically a month of terror -- kill six people every single day. And then after that, they would move on to something that he described as phase two of their mission, where they would use improvised explosives packed with ball bearings and nails to target children, kill children on buses, at schools, at children's hospitals. They even talked about killing police officers, shooting an officer and then at the funeral setting off an explosion to kill mourners.

So very, very troubling information yesterday -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Were those in the control room surprised by the active role that Malvo apparently took in these attacks?

KOCH: They were because, if you'll recall, that when Malvo was on trial in Virginia, his defense had been that he was completely controlled, completely brainwashed by John Allen Muhammad. But the young man we saw in the courtroom yesterday appeared to be very much in control -- very confident, very well spoken, very, very intelligent. And a friend, actually, of one of the victims came out after court yesterday and said that she was stunned, that this was not the young, shy, retiring boy that she had been led to believe that he was. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY BRANCH, FOUND OF SNIPER VICTIM: Well, I thought he was more controlled by Muhammad. But no, he had a large part in the situation, also. And he was very articulate. I mean I didn't know he was going to be so articulate. He was very articulate. That changes everything, I think, as far as I was concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: And it was a very difficult day in court yesterday for the family members sitting there listening to Malvo's very meticulate, step by step description of how their loved ones were murdered, many of them crying. One woman, sobbing, had to be led out of the courtroom -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, no surprise there. Just brutal testimony, really.

All right, Kathleen Koch for us this morning.

That's out of the courthouse.

Thanks, Kathleen.

CNN legal analyst Jeff Toobin is going to join us in just a few minutes with more on the testimony and talk a little bit about Muhammad's attempt to defend himself, as well.

That's ahead.

Stay with us for that -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: I feel a long weekend coming -- Chad Myers.

And I'm hoping it's a nice long stint of good weather.

MYERS: It depends where you're going to be.

M. O'BRIEN: It always depends, doesn't it?

Where do we need to go? Put it that way.

MYERS: In New York City there's a kind of a cold front in your future. There's just going to be a blob over you Friday night and Saturday. But it gets better. I have your five day forecast coming up. The current temperatures are a couple of degrees warmer today. That'll make your grass green.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: The Rolling Stones will be gathering some moss until July. The ancient rockers will stay in their rockers for a while, waiting for Keith Richards to heal after that odd tumble out of the palm tree. They were due to kick off their Bigger Bang European tour in Barcelona this Saturday. Interesting title, given what happened to Richards.

Richards now recovering at his home in Connecticut.

The "American Idol" votes are in. Tonight, we'll find out who America chooses. Will it be McFever (ph) or the Soul Patrol? We're talking about 22-year-old Katherine McPhee, who sang that "Over The Rainbow" thing. That's not seen there but it was wonderful. It drew high praise from the judges.

The other two not so great.

And then there was 29-year-old Taylor Hicks's, "Do I Make You Proud?" that was the third song he did and that was when Simon...

S. O'BRIEN: Loved it.

M. O'BRIEN: ... the irascible Simon said that was it.

S. O'BRIEN: You win.

M. O'BRIEN: Game, set, match.

He didn't quite say that, but that's what he meant.

The winner will be announced tonight. Billions will be tuning in, undoubtedly. Well, millions anyhow.

S. O'BRIEN: Witco-immigration reform, New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg says Washington, D.C. needs to get real.

Ahead this morning, we're going to ask him what his plan is for undocumented immigrants -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Also, a new way to check your bags when you fly. It saves you time and offers better security for the airlines.

S. O'BRIEN: Then later, the best way to fight springtime allergies. Some tips on getting rid of the sneezing and the watery eyes and the itchy throat just ahead.

We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg diving into that raging national debate on immigration. He penned a piece in today's "Wall Street Journal" laying out his plan tighten border security and still find a way for illegal workers to become legit.

His Honor, the mayor, taking some time to visit with us this morning.

Good to have you with us.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK: Good morning.

M. O'BRIEN: Why now? Why did you weigh in on this subject now. You've been thinking about it, obviously.

What prompted you, though?

BLOOMBERG: Well, in every generation or every decade there's a different issue. Immigration is the one that everybody is focusing on right now. We have 11 odd million people in America who are undocumented. Some of them are here because they overstayed visas. Some are here because they crossed the border illegally. But they've become an integral part of our economy.

Some people want to throw them out. At the same time, other people -- which would devastate us -- and other people don't want to bring in the scientists, the doctors, the PhD candidates that will create the science of tomorrow. That's our future.

And then we live in a 9/11 world where you have a border that's porous. We can't do that.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you convinced -- you say it would devastate the economy. As a matter of fact, let me read a little excerpt for you: "Although they broke the law by illegally crossing our borders or overstaying their visas, our economy would be a shell of itself had they not and it would collapse if they were deported."

Is that overstating it a little bit, do you think?

BLOOMBERG: No. No. There's an awful lot of jobs that Americans won't take that people who are hungry to get an opportunity that America offers are willing to do. And to some extent, remember, businesses have been exploiting people for a long time. That's what's happened here.

We complain about people breaking the law, but government, for the last few decades, has been complicit in that. They've allowed people to come. They've closed their eyes. They've never enforced the law that says companies can't hire undocumented. And even now, they're talking about passing a law which would say exactly the same thing but without the necessary technology to ensure that it's enforceable.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, let's -- one of the compromises or attempts at compromise is the Senate legislation, which talks about this kind of tiered approach where essentially you're asking people to report to the border and then essentially be...

BLOOMBERG: Well, I call it report to deport. Nobody's going to do that. And the fact of the matter is, if you take a look, people overstaying their visas show you exactly what happens. You get here, you have kids, you understand how great America is, you get a mortgage and you're just not going to leave. And we have to accept that, deal with that problem and then look to the future. And all of this focus on the 11 million here begs the question of what do you do tomorrow?

We had the problem in '86. We postponed the problem. Here we are with 10 times the problem that we had then, and we're going to do exactly the same thing. M. O'BRIEN: Senator Bill Frist was on just a little while ago. He was talking about this tiered approach.

Let's listen for just a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRIST: I do support what's in the legislation in terms of the gist. The first two years people go back home. They cannot stay here. Three to five years, those people who have been here that long go to the temporary worker program. And after five years, they go through an 11-year probationary period, after which, if they've got a job, paid taxes, learned English, pay a fine, they would be eligible -- they would be eligible for legal status or citizenship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: So, to which you would say, in essence, get real, right?

BLOOMBERG: You wonder what -- that's exactly. You wonder what world Congress is living in.

The truth of the matter is, talk to any mayor who has to enforce the law and you'll find none of those things are remotely possible. Every single undocumented would have documentation overnight saying they'd been here for seven or eight years, or whatever is required. That's the problem.

Today, Congress has a law on the books that says you can't hire illegal workers, but you can't check in a practical sense. They've had it both ways. You can't do that anymore if you want to solve the immigration problem, if you want to solve the security problem, if you want to solve the problem that a lot of our education and science is starting to move overseas, and that's going to hurt ourselves -- hurt us down the road.

And we have another problem in this country. The workforce is not growing fast enough to support you and me when we retire. Social Security, remember, depends on a large, growing number of young people entering the workforce. We don't have babies fast enough to do that. We need immigrants.

M. O'BRIEN: I don't think you're going to need much support yourself.

BLOOMBERG: Well, I'll get through it.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's take -- you're an employer of many people.

BLOOMBERG: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: And one of the things you've talked about and which is being discussed today in Washington in the Senate is the notion of no more winks and nods to employers, getting tough with them.

BLOOMBERG: Well, yes...

M. O'BRIEN: To perhaps a $20,000 fine per hire.

BLOOMBERG: A fine doesn't matter...

M. O'BRIEN: Do you think that's appropriate?

BLOOMBERG: ... if there's no ways to check.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

BLOOMBERG: You need a card that has fingerprints or DNA or some combination and everybody that applies for a job has to have it and their employer has to be required to take the technology and check with a master database. And if they don't, then you find them, if the people don't pass.

But without that, you're asking businesses to do something they cannot do, which is another one of these laws that we passed to feel good but never solves problems.

M. O'BRIEN: A lot of people get upset about the Big Brother implications of that.

BLOOMBERG: Oh, there's no question there's Big Brother implications. But we have Social Security cards already. It's only if you want to work do you need the card. There's nothing wrong with that. We've lived with Social Security cards. The trouble is, in this day and age, with today's computer technology, you can replicate any piece of documentation other than something that's really sophisticated. And I can use your card any time I want unless the DNA or fingerprints of you are on that card. Then I can't use it.

M. O'BRIEN: New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, thanks for dropping by.

BLOOMBERG: Thanks for having me.

M. O'BRIEN: Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the murder trial of convicted sniper John Allen Muhammad. His admitted accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo, offering chilling details and a surprise confrontation, too.

Senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin joins us, up next.

Then later this morning, a new video -- audiotape believed to be from Osama bin Laden. Why he's spelling out his role in the 9/11 attacks. Insight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

We're back in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The man who made a fortune with a swoosh on today's Blue Chips.

Thirty-five dollars -- that's what Nike cofounder Phil Knight paid a graphic design student for the company's legendary swoosh. Thirty-five years later, that logo represents a company a revenues over $13 billion.

PHIL KNIGHT, CHAIRMAN & COFOUNDER, NIKE: Hard work matters and I think having a passion for what you do matters, and maybe a little luck, too.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to believe the chairman of the world's number one shoe maker began his career selling sneakers out of the back of a station wagon.

KNIGHT: The whole retail and consumer products business is very, very competitive. If you do recognize that, as an old business professor said to me, the only time you must not fail is the last time you try.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: The second murder trial for John Allen Muhammad resumes in just about an hour. The convicted sniper is representing himself, cross-examining his former accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo.

Yesterday, it was intense. Malvo was on the stand. The detail was chilling.

CNN's senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, joins us.

He's in Washington, D.C. -- hey, Jeff, good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Gosh, intense, chilling. I mean these words don't even come close to describing, I thought, just how it went. Remarkable what he said on the stand. It's the first time we really heard from Malvo.

TOOBIN: Well, and just the explanation of what happened and why, it doesn't make a lot of sense in the fact that Muhammad wanted to be some sort of terrorist, that he wanted to escalate what he was doing, he wanted to kill six people a day, he wanted to escalate that to starting -- sending explosives in where children were gathering in the Baltimore area. He wanted to go to Canada and start terrorist camps.

You know, why he was doing all of this and whether it made any sense is obviously far from clear. But just that that was the plan and that they got so far was just amazing.

S. O'BRIEN: Here's another big why. Why is Malvo testifying for the prosecution? I mean nothing is going to change the life sentence that he got and nothing is going to change the death sentence that Muhammad got, right? TOOBIN: It is a little puzzling why he's doing it because, you know, some people might say well, he's trying to get out of the death penalty. He was 17 when these murders took place. And under Supreme Court precedent, he couldn't possibly get the death penalty.

He's already sentenced to life in prison in Virginia. He says he's going to accept a life sentence in Maryland. You know, theoretically, down the line, both governors could commute his sentence to something less. I certainly don't think that's likely.

I think he's probably just telling the truth when he says look, I want to get this off my chest, I want to tell the victims what happened. It's been four years. He's grown up some. He's obviously less crazy than he was.

S. O'BRIEN: The first words out of his...

TOOBIN: And he just wants to say.

S. O'BRIEN: The first words out of his mouth were practically you made me into a monster. I wondered how much of that was sort of to get stuff off his own chest, really.

TOOBIN: I think that's right. You know, Soledad, I -- in thinking about these two, they really reminded me of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols because, again, there you had a situation of an extremely charismatic, intelligent and evil leader, McVeigh and Muhammad. And, you know, Nichols wasn't young, but he was a total loser and totally manipulated. And the dynamic between them seemed very similar.

S. O'BRIEN: At one point during the cross-examination -- and I'm curious to get you to weigh in on how you think that's going, because Muhammad, as we've said, is representing himself. But at one point he points out that Malvo lied about originally being the triggerman. And Malvo says, yes, I lied and I'm, you know, that's sort of -- in courtrooms, I think -- always the aha! moment.

And I'm wondering well, in this courtroom, because of the circumstances and because Malvo -- Muhammad, rather -- is representing himself, do you get that same feeling?

TOOBIN: I don't think it makes a bit of difference. I don't think it hurts Malvo's credibility. I mean, look, he's -- he is admitting that he was totally under the sway of Muhammad. Apparently they hatched a plan for Malvo to take most of the responsibility because they thought he'd likely to -- he was more likely to avoid the death penalty.

But, you know, sure Muhammad is presumed innocent, like anyone else on trial. But I mean this is a sure thing conviction, a sure thing death sentence. I just don't -- I don't think you can apply the normal rules of strategy to a trial like this.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, yes, normal, I don't think, is one of those many words of description that we've been using this one. Senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin.

Thanks, Jeff.

TOOBIN: So long, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Coming up on the program, springtime allergies got you down?

An allergy specialist will give us some tips on some ways to stop the suffering.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tired of standing in long lines at the airport to check in your luggage? One airport has come up with a solution to save you time.

I'm Susan Candiotti in Las Vegas.

That exclusive story coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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