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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Amnesty for Millions; Mexican President Vicente Fox Visits California; Raid on Congress; Steve King Interview; Senate Adds Provision to Consult Mexico on Fence
Aired May 25, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the Senate has just voted for a so-called comprehensive immigration reform bill. The vote, 62-36. The legislation gives amnesty to millions of illegal aliens and sharply escalates the war on our middle class and raises the cost of federal government substantially.
We'll have a full report and analysis.
And a jury today has found Enron former CEO Jeffrey Skilling, Enron founder Kenneth Lay guilty of conspiracy and fraud in one of the biggest corporate scandals in this nation's history.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Thursday, May 25th.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
In the past few minutes, the Senate has voted for what it is calling a comprehensive immigration reform bill, a bill that would give amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. The vote, 62 in favor, 36 against. It is a major victory for corporate America and special interests, a major defeat for middle class Americans who face a new onslaught of cheap imported labor.
But the political battle over this legislation is far from over. The House of Representatives is determined to block the Senate legislation and to make border security the nation's top priority.
Louise Schiavone reports from Washington on the Senate vote and the showdown with the House ahead.
Casey Wian reports tonight from Los Angeles on the Senate's failure to tackle the many flaws and loopholes in that legislation.
And Bill Tucker, here in New York, reporting on the massive financial cost of the Senate bill for American citizen taxpayers.
We begin with Louise Schiavone in Washington -- Louise.
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the Senate vote comes after nine days of tough debate and sets the stage for an even tougher confrontation between the House and the Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE (voice-over): Senators cast their votes for the sweeping immigration bill knowing well that the measure as written has virtually no chance of surviving negotiations with conservatives in the Republican-dominated House.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: For all the good work that we've done here the past two weeks, it can be eliminated in a heartbeat.
SCHIAVONE: Undone by Republicans in the House who are convinced that the people they represent oppose the open-door signal sent by the Senate's proposed guest worker program, offering a glide path to citizenship for millions of illegal aliens.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MAJORITY LEADER: We have two very separate and distinct directions that we're going when it comes to controlling our borders and enforcing our laws.
SCHIAVONE: Democrats joined Republicans in efforts to tighten the Senate measure, accepting amendments to specifically limit the number of new immigrants permitted by the bill, invoke tough financial and criminal penalties for employers hiring illegals, declare English the national language, deploy the National Guard to the border, and construct 370 miles of high-tech border fence. But they rejected other amendments, including one to prohibit illegals from collecting Social Security on wages earned with false IDs.
That's the sort of thing that angers opponents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a question of what does this bill do? It is fatally flawed.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: My constituents, many of them, are so angry about the failure of the government to fulfill its responsibilities, and do not see in the underlying legislation an approach to do that.
SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: This legislation I think is well outside of what I consider responsible reform.
SCHIAVONE: The challenge of producing any kind of immigration bill heads to a House-Senate conference with this piece of advice from the White House...
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can tell you this, it's pretty clear that members of both houses understand that they pay a heavier political price for failing to act than for acting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Of course, Lou, the president's press secretary would say that. Mr. Bush, after all, has put his political and national leadership on the line with the guest worker issue. Whether it will make any difference remains to be seen -- Lou. DOBBS: And Louise, we should point out that this is an instance in which the president of the United States, a Republican, by most -- most identifications, and the majority of the Senate have -- of his party -- have parted company. In point of fact, the president of the United States has sided with the Democratic Party in the Senate, and a majority of the Republicans in the Senate have been defeated on this legislation.
It is a remarkable turn of events in that town, Louise.
SCHIAVONE: The dynamics are fascinating and the question is, are the Republicans on Capitol Hill now going to marginalize their own president? And we'll have to see how that unfolds.
DOBBS: Well, there is no question, none whatsoever, that this legislation is flawed in nearly -- in so many ways, that it is utterly breathtaking. I want to add -- Louise Schiavone, thank you very much for that.
I want to add to our update on this legislation. We have just received word from Senator Jon Kyl's office that the Senate in this legislation approved a remarkable change to this so-called comprehensive immigration reform bill. Get ready.
Just moments before the final Senate vote, the United States Senate adopted a provision that requires consultation with the government of Mexico before the United States government can build a security fence on our southern border. If there is any doubt whatsoever about who's in charge of U.S. immigration policy, and now border security, it should be dispelled.
The Senate laying bare its motivation and its values and its disregard for border security by placing immigration reform, as it puts it, at the forefront.
The Senate passed its immigration -- comprehensive immigration reform bill without addressing the legislation's massive impact on our legal system or the agencies responsible for enforcing that legislation, should it become law. Opponents say the Senate bill is simply irresponsible and fatally flawed.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From hiring more Border Patrol agents to verifying the legal status of all new workers, nearly every significant provision of the Senate immigration reform bill faces huge, possibly insurmountable obstacles.
MICHAEL CUTLER, FMR. INS AGENT: Now we've got the United States Senate hell-bent on creating a system that offers as many loopholes and as many areas of vulnerability as we had before. And I just wonder how many of those senators were the same people who were yelling about connecting the dots right after 9/11. WIAN: Perhaps the most glaring loophole is the provision that illegal aliens who have been in the United States more than five years can pay a fine, stay, and work towards citizenship. Those here two to five years would have to self-deport, fill out an application and re- enter through a legal point of entry. Others would have to leave, period.
DAN STEIN, FED. FOR AMER. IMMIGRATION REFORM: As for the requirement that they leave if they've been here less than two years, well, they're supposed to leave now. Who's going to make them? I mean, the senators aren't even answering the core basic questions about why we can't make the law work.
WIAN: The bill would more than double the size of the Border Patrol by 2011, but the agency can't even find enough recruits to fill the jobs it has open now. It also envisions a special guest worker program for 1.5 million farm workers. A smaller program already exists, and it's been plagued by worker abuse and low pay. And the Senate wants a workplace ID verification system set up within 18 months.
SEN. JOHN ENSIGN (R), NEVADA: Every time the government promises an implementation of something, it always seems to take much more time. And that's why I think many of us are skeptical about some of the timelines that have been put out there.
WIAN: Another questionable timeline, the bill urges the Homeland Security Department to perform background checks on the estimated 12 to 20 million illegal aliens now in the country within 90 days.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Just proving the identity of all those illegal aliens is a virtual impossible task, because as amnesty advocates often point out, most of them are undocumented. Of course, that is if you don't count the fraudulent documents -- Lou.
DOBBS: Exactly, or whatever you want to call it. Illegal is the bottom line, which the Senate has just moved to the side as if it is of no interest whatsoever as to who obeys our laws or does not.
This issue, Casey, the fact that they're not looking, in any way providing for budget, manpower for the Citizenship and Immigration Services, or ICE and its internal enforcement agents, I mean, this is -- how do we rationalize? How do we explain this?
WIAN: I don't think you can rationalize or explain it, as evidenced by what you just reported a couple of minutes ago, the fact that the Senate has approved an amendment to allow the government of Mexico to basically sign off on whether we can build a border fence or not. I mean, it seems all rationality has gone out the window -- Lou.
DOBBS: This is breathtaking, it is hard to imagine what this president and the leadership of this Senate have been thinking and what -- and it's just extraordinary. Absolutely disregarding the will of the American people, and abandoning common sense all together, or any apparent concern for border security in passing this legislation. So-called comprehensive immigration legislation.
Casey, thank you.
Casey Wian, from Los Angeles.
The Senate's pro-amnesty legislation also ignores a huge economic and financial cost of enacting such legislation. This legislation would cost taxpayers as much as $54 billion over the next 10 years. That is only an estimate, but that is many times more than the cost of the House immigration bill which focuses primarily on border security.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When it comes to costs, there's a stark difference between the House version of immigration legislation...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bill is passed without objection.
TUCKER: ... and the Senate version. The House version of immigration legislation is estimated by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to cost roughly $1.9 billion over five years. The money going to purchase equipment to secure our ports, better equip the Border Patrol and hire more Border Patrol agents.
The CBO analysis of the Senate bill says the bill will create $54 billion in mandatory spending over 10 years. Why such a stark difference?
DONALD MARRON, CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE: Under the Senate bill, there would be additional immigration into the United States, and through various programs, and that over time those people would qualify for various programs, Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps, various refundable tax credits that, taken together, would be an increase in federal spending.
TUCKER: And that doesn't even begin to account for what happens after the first 10 years when those given amnesty today are eligible for citizenship and bring family into the country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: It should be remembered that the last time the Senate was in this big a rush to pass legislation was the Medicare prescription drug bill. And Lou, that bill was supposed to cost $400 billion. And since its passage, the cost protections have now more than tripled.
DOBBS: They've only missed it by about 80 percent, and those are now conservative estimates, what they told everyone would be $400 billion, looking at over $700 billion. And it's not even clear how well it's working. Remarkable.
But there is a common theme here. Both pieces of legislation were designed first for the benefit of corporate America. And the Senate has, without question -- the Senate leadership -- it is hard to divide the partisan interests here, but it's a remarkable thing. And I will say it again, this Republican president and the Republican leadership of the Senate have sided with the Democrats in the Senate, and have overrun the Republican members of that Senate, the Republican majority in the Senate.
This is as best I can tell unprecedented. We're checking right now to see historically where this has occurred before. But right now, this looks to be unique in history. And a remarkable situation.
Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
Well, California's governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, has announced that he now supports sending new California National Guard troops to the Mexican border if they stay only temporarily. Governor Schwarzenegger criticized the very same White House plan just a week ago. Schwarzenegger, who is showing remarkable adaptively, said at the time that sending 6,000 additional National Guard troops to the Mexican border would make no difference in the fight against illegal immigration and border security.
As for the three other governors of southern border states, Texas Governor Rick Perry and Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano are supporters of the president's plan for unarmed, rear echelon, adjunct support National Guardsmen to back up the Border Patrol.
New Mexico's governor, Bill Richardson, is only saying he'll have a qualified yes, but has a lot of questions about the plan. He wants more details from the White House on just who will be paying for those new National Guard troops.
Guess who? It will be you and me.
Mexican President Vicente Fox meeting with Governor Schwarzenegger in Sacramento, California, tonight on this third day of his tour of the United States -- western United States. President Fox has said repeatedly during this trip that Mexico is America's trusted partner in the fight against illegal immigration, even as he continues his push for amnesty for all Mexican illegal aliens in this country.
Katharine Barrett reports from Seattle, where President Fox spent most of the day today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHARINE BARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Washington's governor said it was mere coincidence that the Mexican president visited while the fate of millions of his countrymen in the United States came to a vote. But Governor Chris Gregoire clearly hopes his presence reinforces her state's goals.
GOV. CHRISTINE GREGOIRE (D), WASHINGTON: We need to have it be a shared responsibility to make sure that we have border security. We need to have earned legalization. And that does not mean blanket amnesty. That means legitimate, earned legalization. BARRETT: President Fox breakfasted Thursday with northwest business leaders from Boeing, Costco, Starbucks and Microsoft. Vicente Fox said here that expanding trade between the U.S. and Mexico is one path to improving the economic conditions that drive so many Mexicans north.
VICENTE FOX, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We want to be part of the solution, and not part of the problem. We want to be united.
BARRETT: And just hours before the Senate vote, President Fox expressed hope that new immigration legislation might...
FOX (through translator): ... open doors towards the future, open doors towards work, united to build a better world, a better North America.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BARRETT: So, Lou, a very strong message here from President Fox and his host of cooperation coordination. Keep in mind, though, that Vicente Fox is leaving office in just a matter of months. So the Mexican border security question is going to be in the hands down there of a completely new government -- Lou.
DOBBS: But one that will apparently decide whether or not the U.S. government can move to secure its own border, should the Senate legislation succeed. And apparently introducing that amendment, Katharine Barrett, that would give -- make it absolutely imperative and mandatory that the U.S. government consult with the government of Mexico before securing its border. That amendment, I am now told, was introduced by Senator Arlen Specter at the last moment.
A remarkable turn of events on a day in which the Senate has certainly distinguished itself in so many ways, certainly making transparent the politics and the motives and the values of the U.S. Senate.
Katharine Barrett, thank you very much.
Still ahead here, President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair holding a summit meeting at the White House. Troop withdrawals from Iraq the top issue. We'll have that report for you.
And new evidence that the federal government's failure to stop illegal immigration from being a greater burden and keeping illegal aliens from stealing Americans' identity is threatening our national security. We'll have that report as well.
And the Senate voting to give amnesty to millions of illegal aliens today. A powerful member of the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Steve King, says our illegal immigration crisis and border security crisis will not end by simply opening our borders and legalizing illegal aliens. He's our guest.
And President Bush steps into the escalating constitutional and legal battle between Congress and the Justice Department over a bribery investigation. We'll be live at the White House and on Capitol Hill with the very latest for you.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today stepping into the escalating constitutional and legal confrontation created by his Justice Department with the U.S. Congress over a bribery investigation of a congressman on Capitol Hill.
Suzanne Malveaux now joins us, reporting from the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, this really is not an easy move by this president, who generally errs on the side of expanding executive powers, but really an extraordinary move by President Bush today, stepping into the middle of this constitutional controversy between members of Congress, as well as the Justice Department. Earlier today, President Bush ordering that the evidence that was taken from Congressman Jefferson's office essentially be sealed temporarily.
The president releasing a statement explicitly saying, "I am directing the Department of Justice to seal all the materials recovered from Congressman Jefferson's office for the next 45 days, and not to allow access to anyone involved in the investigation." It goes on to say that "This period will provide both parties more time to resolve the issues in a way that ensures that materials relevant to the ongoing criminal investigation are made available to prosecutors in a manner that respects the interests of a coequal branch of government."
Of course, this order expiring on July 9th. The president also made it very clear, Lou, that he says that he believes the investigation should go on, saying that "Those who violate the law, including a member of Congress, should be held to account. This investigation will go forward and justice will be served."
All of this happening, as you know, Lou, after he got an earful from the speaker. Of course, Denny Hastert saying he was very concerned about what had taken place -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, isn't this a tacit mission on the part of the president, that his Justice Department overstepped its bounds in this -- in this dispute?
MALVEAUX: Well, Lou, you could certainly see it that way, but what the White House is hoping is that people look at this as a simply a cooling off period for both sides to pull back, to take a second look at what has taken place here. The president wants to make it clear he is backing up the Justice Department, but obviously, of course, giving a nod to those members of Congress by saying, hey, let's pull back, let's take a look at this 45 days from now.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you very much.
Suzanne Malveaux, from the White House.
Congressman William Jefferson, at the center of this constitutional confrontation, today called the president's action a "step in the right direction," as he put it. House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi say that the FBI search of the congressman's office on Capitol Hill violates the separation of powers between the legislative and executive branches.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: What we want to do is not protect people who broke the law, but we need to protect the division of powers in the Constitution of the United States. And that's one of the things that I talked to the president about, that's one of the things that we're concerned about in this issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: This is an interesting departure. Nancy Pelosi, the minority leader, and leader of Congressman Jefferson's party, has asked him to resign from the Ways and Means Committee, and Mr. Jefferson, not in Mr. Hastert's party, is supporting the congressman. Speaker Hastert said the president's order gives congressional (INAUDIBLE) time to negotiate with the Justice Department.
Also tonight, the special counsel in the CIA leak investigation is now raising the possibility that it may call Vice President Dick Cheney as a witness in the upcoming trial of Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald says in a pretrial filing that Cheney's handwritten notes on the Valerie Plame case are relevant to the case against Libby.
Libby is charged with lying to investigators and a grand jury about how he learned of Plame's identity as a covert CIA operative. His trial is scheduled to begin early next year.
President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair meeting at the White House tonight to discuss the conduct of the war in Iraq and other issues. Prime Minister Blair arrived at the White House over the past half hour. Blair and the president likely to discuss the possibility of major U.S. and British troop withdrawals from Iraq over the next two years.
We'll have special coverage for you of the summit between Bush and Blair beginning at 7:00 p.m. Eastern with Wolf Blitzer, followed by live coverage of their news conference, a special edition of "PAULA ZAHN NOW".
In Iraq, insurgents have killed two more of our Marines. The Marines were killed in Al Anbar Province, west of Baghdad. 2,460 of our troops have now been killed in Iraq.
Still ahead, the United States' inability to fix this nation's identity theft crisis is now a growing national security crisis. We'll have a special report.
Also tonight, illegal aliens and their supporters have won a major victory in the U.S. Senate. Our nation's citizens have suffered, however, what appears to be a major defeat.
I'll be talking with Congressman Steve King, a fierce opponent of illegal alien amnesty.
And four and a half years after the fall of Enron, justice delayed, but delivered. The verdicts are in for Enron executives Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay. Jeffrey Toobin will join me for analysis and more coming right up.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We have reported on how the federal government fails to prosecute identity thieves who are using stolen Social Security numbers, even though the government knows who they are and where they work. Tonight, new evidence that this failure threatens national security, as well as personal privacy.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The illegal immigration debate is not just about guest workers. It's about national security.
In 2002, Social Security inspector general James Huse testified the 9/11 hijackers used five counterfeit Social Security numbers. He said, "It is becoming more and more apparent that those connected with terrorism will at some point obtain Social Security numbers. They may buy them, they may create them, or they may obtain them from the Social Security Administration directly through the use of falsified immigration records."
His suggestion, private business and government agencies should cooperate and cross-check the numbers to stop Social Security fraud.
JAMES HUSE, FMR. INSPECTOR GENERAL, SSA: This is the most common sense way and readily available way to bring back some integrity into the Social Security number, without a lot of new bureaucracy.
PILGRIM: Yet, more than four years after September 11th, government agencies like the IRS have not prosecuted a single business that filed false Social Security numbers.
JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY: In order to make it much more difficult for terrorists to get false IDs, you're also going to be making it much more difficult for undocumented workers and other people to get false IDs. And that's going to force you to confront the challenge of coming up with a consistent rational policy. PILGRIM: National security is at risk. For example, the Social Security Administration lists a California security guard company in the top 100 worst offenders of Social Security irregularities. The company filed 4,321 Social Security numbers that did not match names of employees.
A 2004 report to the Congressional Research Service quotes the 9/11 Commission. "According to the commission, up to 15 of the hijackers could have been intercepted or deported through more diligent enforcement of immigration laws."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: More than four years after September 11th, the head of Homeland Security is still begging for access to the names and numbers that don't match on Social Security files, files the Social Security Administration says they cannot share -- Lou.
DOBBS: But that the president of the United States, through an executive order, could order.
PILGRIM: It could be cleared up instantly.
DOBBS: And the Congress of the United States, four and a half years later, could also pass a law. In other words, they're simply not running this government.
PILGRIM: There's no will to do it.
DOBBS: It is absolutely disgusting, criminal. The words that follow after that I can't speak on the air.
Thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
Go to our Web site, LouDobbs.com, if you suspect Social Security fraud, and you will find the Social Security Administration's toll- free fraud hotline and a link to the Social Security Administration's Web site -- LouDobbs.com.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.
Martin in Idaho wrote in to say, "Lou, Mr. Snow sure lived up to his name. I felt like I was in a blizzard. A porous border secure? I guess the leaks are too small for the bad guys to fit through."
And Thomas in Kentucky, "Dear Lou, I suppose after last night's interview with Tony Snow that you realized just how fast the president can indoctrinate just anyone he pleases. To me, you never got a straight answer to anything you asked him. You got George Bush's answer.
"You're about the only one on national news that stands up and tells it like it is. Keep up the good work."
We'll keep trying. Joseph in Florida, "Lou, given their plummeting approval ratings, it appears that George W. Bush and Tony Blair are caught between Iran and a hard place."
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast.
Now that the Senate has approved sweeping illegal immigration reform legislation, the focus moves to the House. A small group of senators and congressmen will reconcile the House border security bill with the Senate's version of what it loves to call comprehensive immigration reform.
But it is by no means certain that the House will approve any part of the Senate's legislation or move to compromise. Congressman Steve King serves on the Immigration Subcommittee of the powerful Judiciary Committee. Congressman King sponsored a measure to end the requirement for bilingual ballots and joins us tonight from Capitol Hill. Congressman, good to have you here.
REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: I'm glad to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: I have to read something to you, before we move, in the Senate business. Senator Jon Kyl just informed us -- I'm going to not read it to you because I can't find the note -- but the fact is that the Senate, through a manager's amendment, has put forward a final provision that despite Senator Kyl's objections was a requirement before the United States restrict any fencing -- construct any fencing along the border, it must consult with the government of Mexico.
How quickly can you endorse and embrace that? We're trying to find out -- you know, we are assuming that this is a manager's amendment, because that is, within the purview of the manager. It may have been introduced by another senator, but we really want to show the American people just how intent this Senate leadership is in giving away American sovereignty as quickly as they can shovel it off and across the border.
KING: Well, Lou, it's been just a relentless and incessant series of comedies over there. That's the last of the outrageous things that have been done. To grant Social Security benefits to illegals and to grant also Medicare benefits to illegals, to set up Davis-Bacon wage scale guarantees to illegals, and to -- you know, we're an at-will state in Iowa.
And you can hire -- you can fire someone there for any reason or no reason at all. You just can't discriminate against them under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, but the statutory language that's over in the Senate says that you can't fire without cause either. So they're protecting the illegals in such a way that this almost sets up the stage for Cesar Chavez to be reincarnated to run a great, big, huge illegal immigrant, now amnestyized union.
DOBBS: Well, if I may to keep history in context here, Congressman, because I covered Cesar Chavez many, many years ago, about 30 years ago. The fact is that Cesar Chavez, despite the banners that you may see and all that was invoked in his name, was absolutely opposed to illegal immigration, and as a matter of fact, he opposed illegal immigration -- and this must upset a lot of the more radical activist groups in some parts of the country -- because he understood that it would take away wages from American workers. Hispanics, all workers. It's just mind-boggling.
KING: That is a good point, Lou, and that supply and demand rules the value of the labor, just like it does any other commodity, and Cesar Chavez did understand that, at least in the earlier part of his career. And that seems to be something that the unions in this country have stepped away from to some degree.
I mean, they did a national tour, a freedom ride with illegals in buses here a year and a half or so ago, the AFL-CIO. So this has been bizarre.
And I see it politically on two wings. One is the people who can make a lot of money off of illegal labor, and then they want to spend that money on cheap labor to manicure their nails and their lawns. And then on the other side are the liberal Democrats who count every immigrant they can get in here as political power, and in fact, we're redistricting in America by counting them in the census, and they are represented in Congress, whether they get to vote or not. Those of us in the middle are the ones being squeezed. The middle class of America is diminishing in all of this.
DOBBS: Oh, absolutely. Congressman, you couldn't be more correct.
I would just like to put up, if I may, something that you're familiar with, but according to the U.S. Customs and Immigration Service, there are these literacy requirements for naturalization of citizens in this country, and if we could just put that up for everybody to know.
"No person shall be naturalized as a citizen of the United States upon his or her own application unless that person can demonstrate an understanding of the English language, including an ability to read, write and speak words in ordinary usage in the English language."
That's a requirement for citizenship in this country. Why then did your amendment to mandate ballots be written in English only fail?
KING: There was also a political arrangement made, I believe, and I don't think there was a will to take on all of the charges of racism that would flow out of that if we didn't reauthorize the Voting Rights Act or even if we peeled out the bilingual voting ballots portion of that.
The inertia was all there before I could get my hands on it. But there was no way I could walk away from that and not at least try to peel out the bilingual, because there are only two reasons that you could ask for a bilingual ballot.
One is if you came here and you didn't learn English but you were naturalized as a citizen, in which case you would violate the clear statute that you laid out, and the other one would be if you were born in America and you had birthright citizenship but lived in an enclave and didn't learn the language, in which case you wouldn't understand the culture and should not be choosing the next leader in the free world.
DOBBS: I think that is altogether reasonable. So can you explain to me, have you got any fathom, any fathoming at all as to how the united -- this law of the United States, the most welcoming country on the face of the Earth, the most socially diverse, the world's longest democracy, longest surviving democracy, could be accused of racism by enforcing this law which requires proficiency in English?
KING: The rational debate has been over for some time. It's any port in a storm to the people on the other side. The race baiters get political gain by driving this argument, and so the fear factor sets in on the part of the liberals, and that's what leadership doesn't want to take on is the label of bigotry and racism.
DOBBS: You -- well, you better have -- you better have a strong spine in this world.
KING: I've been called all those names, and my soul's pretty white on that one.
DOBBS: It's a searing experience occasionally.
Congressman King, what do you think of your president and the Senate leadership just telling the majority in the Senate of your party to just go to heck, and we'll ignore the majority of their party in the Senate? And push that, in my opinion, absolutely ridiculous legislation through?
KING: Well, I just want to make -- I supported the president on many of his agendas, and yet on this one, I draw a sharp disagreement with him, and to try to run over their majority in the House -- we're the ones that are the closest to the people. We're up for election every two years. We hear from the people. We know what the middle America is about, we know what real Americans are about.
And I think that they just can't hear. I think they lost their audio perception for some reason, and they determined that they're elitist enough in their attitude that they'll run us over.
DOBBS: Well, run them over they did, and Congressman Steve King, we thank you for being here. We look forward to...
KING: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Look forward to the process from here.
That brings us to the subject of our poll. Do you believe the Senate's passage of what the president calls comprehensive immigration reform will A, boost the approval ratings of the president? B, boost the approval ratings of Democrats? C, boost the approval ratings of Republicans? D, per chance, none of the above? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here.
Next, Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay. They are going to jail. Guilty in the $60 billion fraud that destroyed Enron. Legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us. We'll be examining the crime and the prison time.
And as Congress considers granting amnesty to millions, if the Senate has its way -- we'll examine just what you'll be paying, what the total cost will be, things that certainly didn't concern the U.S. Senate nor this president. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A Houston jury has convicted former Enron executives Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, of perpetrating one of the largest corporate frauds in American corporate history. The jury found Enron founder and chairman Ken Lay guilty on all six counts of conspiracy and fraud. He could spend at least 20 years in prison. After today's verdict, Ken Lay continues to proclaim his innocence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN LAY, FORMER ENRON CHAIRMAN: Certainly, we're surprised. I think probably more appropriately to say we're shocked. Certainly this was not the outcome we expected. I firmly believe I'm innocent of the charges against me.
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DOBBS: The jury also found former Enron CEO Jeff Skilling guilty on 19 counts of conspiracy, fraud, false statements and insider trading, also spending more than 20 years behind bars if he doesn't win on appeal. The judge has set sentencing for the week of September 11th.
Joining me now, our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, this was a wipe out, huge, total 28 counts -- amazing.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: It's very likely that Ken Lay and perhaps even Jeff Skilling will spend the rest of their life in prison. This is an enormous victory for the Department of Justice in a very difficult, complicated case -- total victory for DOJ.
DOBBS: And it took awhile, justice delayed without a question for more than four years after the bankruptcy. The bankruptcy, I recall, the first part of December in 2001, but justice delivered.
TOOBIN: Absolutely and in more than one way, because the Enron scandal didn't just lead to now the certain incarceration of the two leaders, but it led to Sarbanes-Oxley, which created a newer system of accountability for senior executives that, you know, it's not perfect but it's better.
DOBBS: It's not perfect. It is absolutely, though, I think, determining in stopping corporate corruption in this country, at least to a great extent, but of course, corporate America's trying to roll back Sarbanes-Oxley. Let's move to the other issue, that is Congressman William Jefferson being asked by Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi to leave his post on the Ways and Means Committee in the House. The Senate jumping in, rather the president jumping in, freezing the documents taken by the FBI from his office. What in the world, and Dennis Hastert, speaker of the House says this is not a good thing, Mr. President.
TOOBIN: This is one of the most astonishing turns of events. Here you have a very likely corrupt Democratic politician being defended in essence by the speaker of the House and the Republican leadership, with the president backing down from the investigation.
DOBBS: And Nancy Pelosi calling for him to jump -- to leave the Ways and Means Committee. Where are his friends at the White House?
TOOBIN: White House or the speaker's office? I think it just shows that Congress is so jealous of its own prerogatives that, that trumps everything, including crooked people in their own means.
DOBBS: Let's see, you want to go through the list? Warrantless wire tapping, well, we're not going to worry about the oversight on that thing. Congress has advocated oversight on just about every facet of its constitutional responsibility, but sure isn't going to put up with this.
TOOBIN: And a president who defends the executive branch prerogative except here, where he seems clearly right.
DOBBS: Well I was astonished to find this is the first time the FBI in the history of the country has entered the Capitol Hill into the congressional offices for a search -- because when you think about the number of crooks that have been in that building over 200 years, it's remarkable. Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much.
Still ahead here, the Senate tonight voting in favor of illegal alien amnesty without any regard for cost, impact, anything, as best I can tell. I'll be talking with two of the country's leading authorities on the real cost of this amnesty legislation and the important meeting at the White House tonight that could lead to U.S. and British troop withdrawals from Iraq. All of that and a great deal more coming right up. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The Senate today passing its so-called comprehensive immigration reform without giving what appears to be any serious consideration at all to what that bill would cost the federal government or U.S. taxpayers.
The Senate completely ignoring new figures, warning that the cost of granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, creating the president's guest worker program could ultimately run as high as $50 billion a year.
Joining me now to discuss the explosive cost of illegal alien amnesty, George Grayson, one of the nation's foremost authorities on Mexico. Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation, who says the Senate's legislation represents the largest expansion of federal government welfare in 35 years. Good to have you with us. Let me start with you, George Grayson, professor -- what does it mean, the idea that the United States Senate in this legislation would not deign to create a fence along our border without consultation with Mexico?
GEORGE GRAYSON, PROFESSOR, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM & MARY: I think that's just political correctness run amuck, Lou. It's sort of like the tendency to call illegal aliens undocumented migrants, which is similar to saying that bank robbers are informal withdrawal agents.
DOBBS: Well, Robert -- I just can't believe this. And I have to say, I am just astonished that the Senate is this transparent in its sell off to corporate America and special interests. The Republican leadership making a majority out of the Democrats, saying the hell with the public and majority in the Senate and moving through. With the president, of course, leadership.
ROBERT RECTOR, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: This is, in my mind, one of the most momentous bills of the last 20 years. It's also the worst bill I have seen in 25 years in Washington.
DOBBS: That's a lot of years.
RECTOR: That's a lot of years. This is an absolutely catastrophic bill, and basically what we're doing is granting citizenship to a large number of low-skill immigrants. They have a high level of out of wedlock child bearing and them we seem to be going to bring in an additional 30 million or so low-skill immigrants from abroad. The fiscal consequences of amnesty alone will be at least $50 billion a year and all of those costs are going to pile up at exactly the same time we have a Social Security crisis.
DOBBS: Professor Grayson, jump in here but Senator Kennedy stood up on the floor of the Senate and said that this is going to be a net winner for the American people, more taxes will be coming in, and you're not going to have to worry about that and he's got the CBO report, he's flashing that. Professor Grayson, aren't you moved by that?
GRAYSON: Well, I think the Titanic had a great voyage also, Lou, but Dr. Rector is absolutely right about the federal cost. In fact, $50 billion is probably underestimating the figure. But back in 1986, before you were born, Lou...
DOBBS: Thank you.
GRAYSON: ... We passed an amnesty bill that was going to be the amnesty to end all amnesties, and at least the Congress in that year, 20 years ago, appropriated $4 billion for the states to be able to adjust to the deluge of new citizens. This Senate bill doesn't have one thin dime, and so if your viewers like tax increases at the state level, then they want to get on the band wagon and support this initiative.
DOBBS: Robert Rector, without your analysis and your research, the fact is, instead of 66 million legal immigrants being allowed to come into this country over the next 20 years, think about that -- increasing the population by a little over 20 percent, in the course of 20 years, plus then their families and whatever, that doesn't include the illegal aliens that would be given amnesty. This Senate wouldn't have even thought about removing, changing that if you hadn't done your research.
RECTOR: They had no count on the number of people they were letting in under the original bill, they didn't care. They don't care how much they cost. Originally they were going to let in at least 100 million people.
Now we've scaled it back but still letting in around 60 million. We're roughly tripling legal immigration in the United States. What poll indicates that's what the American public wants here? Plus the fact is, that clearly what we're bringing in are low-skilled people that will pay virtually nothing in taxes but will have high welfare, high cost of education, putting a huge burden on the middle class.
DOBBS: Robert Rector, George Grayson, gentlemen, we thank you. I hope you'll come back as we analyze this and continue to at least put the facts in front of the audience of this broadcast. We may be the only people in the country, ladies and gentlemen, who care about the fact, because it's clear that this president and this Senate absolutely does not.
Thank you for being here.
GRAYSON: Amen.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf, I know you care about facts. Tell us all about it.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Love those facts. Thanks very much, Lou.
Coming up, President Bush and the British prime minister, Tony Blair -- they are about to have a joint news conference, they're meeting inside the White House right now. Our special coverage tonight includes Congressman John Murtha, our own James Carville and Torie Clarke, Senator Bill Nelson of Florida, the best political team on television -- all of our top reporters. All of that, Lou, coming up right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf.
A reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Do you believe the Senate's passage of what the president calls comprehensive immigration reform will boost the approval ratings of the president, of Democrats, of Republicans, or perhaps none of the above? Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results in just a moment.
Up next, President Bush meeting with Tony Blair, our staunchest ally in the Iraq war. General David Grange joins me to talk about a host of issues in Iraq. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush, British Prime Minister Tony Blair meeting now at the White House. They're talking about the war in Iraq, of course, and the issue of U.S. and British troop withdrawals.
What you're looking at now is the Mexican Air Force 757 that has arrived in Sacramento, where Mexican President Vicente Fox will be talking to the California Legislature, meeting with Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. There appears to be something of a political quid pro quo.
It seems to me that president Fox is in the United States trying to boost Calderone, his party's candidates in the upcoming July elections for president and, of course, Vicente Fox and a quid pro quo, obviously, working to help the prospects, the political prospects, of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, if you believe that's the sort of thing that happens in politics on either side of the border.
We turn now to General David Grange. General Grange, let's talk first about the issue of 26.5 million servicemen and women, their records are being stolen as a result of an analyst having it at his home. What is your reaction to that?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the reaction is that it is a security issue. There are going to be veterans that are going to have their identities stolen. There's going to be repercussions from that. It's going to take months and months to get it solved.
The other issue is, you have to look at what made it happen. In other words were there warnings over the last years that caused things to be put in place like internal controls and oversight that were not done, and if that's the case, then some leaders are very much responsible.
DOBBS: Yes, and I love the response of the Veterans Affairs, of everybody. You know, veterans go out and solve your problem, here's the way to do it. I mean, doesn't that just tick you off?
GRANGE: Yes, because I don't want to have to do that. My records are in that group, I think.
DOBBS: Yes, it's just a sort of benign sort of role. We're not responsible for anything, we're not accountable for anything and, you know, they can hold 18 hearings, it's pretty simple. Don't let those records into anyplace that's not secure. You would think the government would understand that basic, simple thought.
Tony Blair and President Bush meeting, troop withdrawals, any prospect in your view?
GRANGE: There's definitely a timetable. Of course it can move up, it can move back, conditions-based, depending on how things go. But I think they're talking about that in a very strong way and I think the Iraqi military and police are on the go to do much better. I think it's going to happen in a year-and-a-half or so.
DOBBS: With that note of optimism as always, General David Grange, we thank you for being here. Good talking with you.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Still ahead, the results of our poll and we'll have some more of your thoughts. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The result of our poll tonight, two percent of you say the Senate's passage of what the president calls comprehensive immigration reform will boost the approval ratings of the president of the United States, six percent say it will boost the approval ratings of Democrats, one percent the approval ratings of Republicans, 92 percent say none of the above. Makes you wonder what they're doing.
Taking a look now at more of your thoughts.
Tim in Missouri: "Lou, maybe the next Senate should write up an amnesty bill for themselves."
Mi in California: "Dear Lou, if all middle class Americans stopped paying taxes and filing tax returns, do you think we will get amnesty?"
Wayne in Connecticut: "Lou, please let me get this straight. You can steal my identity, you can collect on my Social Security, come to my country, and protest in my streets and require your language on all items that I buy or sell. As they say, 'only in America.' Wait until November!"
And Grant in Arizona: "I find it very telling that one of the few things both parties agree on is that the Justice Department and FBI shouldn't be able to investigate their corruption. They seem to think that a congressman taking bribes and storing the money in his freezer is acceptable behavior, and someone trying to uphold our laws is not. Explains a lot." Indeed it does.
And Judi in Alabama: "Lou, I'm registered as a Democrat but vote for the lesser of the two evils. I can assure you that with senators like Jeff Sessions (my hero), and Robert Shelby and a Congressman like Aderholt, I will be voting Republican as the Democrats seem to have lost their collective minds."
You know, it's a unfortunate thing where we stop boosting -- this evening with boosting party. We'd like to tell you what some of the Republicans are saying. They're probably going to be voting for Democrats. They're just as upset as everybody else. And send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com.
That's our broadcast for this evening. We thank you for being here. Please join us tomorrow. Thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer begins now -- Wolf.
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