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CNN Live Today
FBI Raid on The Hill; Cop Decoy; Afghanistan Crumbling?
Aired May 30, 2006 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: An FBI raid on Congress, out of bounds or fair play? That's the focus of a House hearing this morning on Capitol Hill. The loaded title of the hearing seems to explain the mood. It's called "Reckless Justice: Did the Saturday Night Raid of Congress Trample the Constitution?"
Let's go to our chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
And Jeffrey, good to see you this morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, Tony.
HARRIS: Hey, I've got to -- let me start with this. Former speaker New Gingrich says, "The protection of the legislative branch from the executive branch's policing powers is a fundamental principle which goes all the way back to the English Civil War.
Is he right about that?
TOOBIN: Well, he is right, but I have to say, I am often battled by Congress, but I think -- I don't know what planet these people are on. This was a legitimate investigation of a congressman who sure looks to most people like a totally corrupt crook. And Congress decides to rebel against this use of executive power? I think they are out of their minds.
HARRIS: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. This goes to -- doesn't this cut to Article -- what is it Article 1, Section 6 of the Constitution?
TOOBIN: The speech or debate clause.
HARRIS: Yes.
TOOBIN: And it is true, this goes back to the English king, Richard III -- at the time of the revolution.
HARRIS: Yes, that guy, right.
TOOBIN: Right. And they said during the period leading up to the revolution, the king would sometimes throw members of the colonial legislature in jail for things they said on the floor of the colonial legislature.
So they said, look, we are going to put anything you say off limits from criminal prosecution on the floor. That's why it's called the speech or debate clause. Speech or debate is off limit. It said nothing about searches of people's offices. This was an investigation presented to a judge with probable cause that crime -- that evidence of crime would be found. The Congress has -- I mean, no court has ever...
HARRIS: Oh, Jeffrey, get a subpoena. You don't need to do it this way. And you certainly need to inform the House leader.
Get a subpoena. We'll secure the documents. The sergeant at arms can secure the documents that you are looking for. You don't have to do this.
TOOBIN: They tried. The Justice Department negotiated, tried to get some cooperation. Congress said, go to hell, we're not giving you what you want. The Justice Department, entirely appropriately, in my view, did the only thing they could to investigate a serious crime, which was get a search warrant.
And the amazing thing to me is not that Congress did this, is that the president has backed down to the point where he's declared a 45-day cooling off period where they won't look at these documents. I mean, the FBI, as I understand it, is outraged by that. And frankly, that's...
HARRIS: Well, he's the leader -- he's the leader of the Republican Party, and Republicans are vociferous in their objections to this. Now, you know...
TOOBIN: Now you're getting to the nub of this, Tony.
HARRIS: Yes.
TOOBIN: I mean, now what's really going on here is you have a Republican Party in Congress that's very mad at the president for a lot of different reasons. And they decided to strike back at him at this bizarre issue. But I think, you know, if you're in Congress and you're worried about appearing out of touch, to go to bat for a crooked congressman or an apparently crooked congressman, seems only to reinforce that what a lot of people think is that Congress is more concerned about their own prerogatives than they are about law enforcement and fair treatment of everybody.
HARRIS: You go to bat because, you know, there may be a lot more of this coming down the pike here. And this has never happened before. And this is precedent-setting, and it's all about expanding powers.
TOOBIN: Well, I was up to -- I was with you up until the end. Maybe it's all about catching crooked congressmen.
I mean, you know, here you have the odd spectacle of Republicans going to bat for a Democrat, Jefferson. But down the pike...
HARRIS: Yes.
TOOBIN: ... the real scandal that everybody's concerned about in Capitol Hill is the Abramoff scandal, which implicates only Republicans. They are the ones who may have their offices searched in the future. So you can argue that's why they're so concerned about the issue now.
We'll see. But, I mean, this, to me, is so baffling for people who are allegedly politically savvy. Boy.
HARRIS: Yes. Jeffrey Toobin.
Good to talk to you, Jeffrey. Thanks.
TOOBIN: All right, Tony. We settled that one.
HARRIS: Yes, OK.
Let's get more on today's hearing now from CNN's Dana Bash. She is on Capitol Hill.
And Dana, I understand the hearing has just wrapped?
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's just wrapping up, we're told. That's right, Tony. It lasted about an hour and a half.
And you can talk about this hearing against the backdrop of something that you and Jeff Toobin were talking about, which is the political backlash that has begun a little bit in terms of Republicans. Some of the rank and file out there saying, maybe this is not the message we want to be sending, that it looks like perhaps, we, members of Congress, want to be treated differently than others.
We saw over the weekend the Senate majority leader change positions, saying that he now thinks the raid was OK. The House speaker, even though he still is standing firm in his position, he wants to move past this issue.
But, Tony, in this hearing today, it's been -- it's been made very clear that at least the House judiciary chairman who held the hearing does not want to move on. In fact, he announced that he is going to call the attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, and the FBI director, Robert Mueller, to testify before his committee, shortly -- he didn't give a date -- about why they reached the conclusion that they did, why they decided to raid for the first time in history a sitting lawmaker's congressional office.
Now, both sides of the aisle during this hearing, lawmakers were going out of their way, Tony, to say that nobody is above the law. But they also did make clear, most of them, if not all of them, frankly, that they do believe that the FBI made a mistake with this raid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), WISCONSIN: The materials taken very likely include communications created in the course of legitimate legislative process that have nothing to do whatsoever with the criminal inquiry into Representative Jefferson's activities.
REP. JOHN CONYERS (D), MICHIGAN: But the procedures employed on the Saturday night in question were sloppy, at best, but reckless at worst.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, this panel that the Judiciary Committee heard from today was made up of constitutional experts, and there was no dissent on that panel. They pretty much all believed that the FBI did make a mistake, went over the line in terms of the separation of powers in conducting the raid. And, in fact, one Republican panelist, Bruce Fein, who worked for the Reagan Justice Department, he even went further.
He made clear that it wasn't just this particular issue, that it is the Bush administration in general, the way they are treating Congress, the way they are treating the Constitution, in his view. That is, to look at it in the big picture, that it's going too far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE FEIN, PRINCIPAL, THE LICHFIELD GROUP: Checks and balances are every bit as indispensable to our civil liberties as the Bill of Rights. And yet, the Bush administration has been bent on a scheme for years of reducing Congress to akin to an extra in a Cecil B. DeMille political extravaganza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now that is sort of in line with what we heard from some Democrats at the beginning of the hearing, Tony. Democrats strongly suggesting that, yes, maybe this was a mistake on behalf of the Justice Department. But it was certainly not the first, in their view, incident to go over the line in terms of the rights of United States citizens, talking about the wiretapping -- NSA surveillance program, I should say, as one example.
Now, I should just also mention that the judiciary chairman also said that he is going to work on legislation, he said, to try to draft a bill that gives Congress the same protections as the media.
HARRIS: I sure hope the public is paying attention to this. This is pretty good.
Dana Bash for us, our congressional correspondent.
Dana, thank you.
Snow falls and the stock of a financial giant sores. Less than two hours ago, President Bush nominated Henry Paulson, Jr. as the new Treasury secretary. Paulson is chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs financial firm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As one of America's most prominent business executives, Hank has been a strong and consistent voice for corporate accountability. When the corporate scandals broke, Hank showed his leadership and character by calling for reforms that would strengthen the way America's public companies are governed and improve their accounting practices. And as Treasury secretary, Hank will bring those high standards to one of the most important posts in Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: If confirmed, he'll replace John Snow, whose long- rumored resignation was also announced at the Rose Garden ceremony.
She's opened her eyes and moved her toes. Small signs that are raising big hopes for family and friends of CBS correspondent Kimberly Dozier. She was wounded yesterday in a roadside bombing that killed her two colleagues and a U.S. soldier. Dozier was rushed to a military emergency room in Baghdad where CNN just happened to be shooting a documentary.
Here are some of the comments from the medical staff in the moments after her life-saving treatment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. TIFFANY FUSCO, U.S. MILITARY HOSPITAL, BAGHDAD: Her blood pressure dropped to a point where we could barely see what it was anymore. We could barely assess it. Basically, it means that she was going down, and she did pretty hard. But we were able to get her back by giving her fluids and medications.
MAJOR SAM MEHTA, U.S. MILITARY HOSPITAL BAGHDAD: If this severe trauma would have happened back home in the states, she would have probably died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Right now, Kimberly Dozier is undergoing treatment at a U.S. military hospital in Germany.
Now a story that's raising a lot of concern at the Pentagon and in Congress today. An investigation is now under way into alleged atrocities in the western Iraqi town of Haditha and a possible cover- up. U.S. Marines accused of killing two dozen unarmed Iraqis, including children.
And now the parents of two Marines are speaking out. They say their sons were sent to Haditha after the killings, where they were ordered to photograph and clean up the corpses. And they have been traumatized ever since. One of those Marines is Lance Corporal Ryan Briones (ph). His mother says her son is traumatized by what took place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SUSIE BRIONES, MOTHER OF MARINE: It was horrific. It was a terrible scene. The biggest thing that keeps to his mind is the children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many bodies did he tell you he saw?
BRIONES: Twenty-three. Around 23, 24. Twenty-three is what I remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were any of them alive?
BRIONES: No. They were all dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The father of the other Marine, Lance Corporal Andrew Rite (ph), says his son is now in the spotlight through no fault of his own.
A slow and painstaking process in Indonesia, cleaning up from Saturday's big earthquake. And the death toll is still climbing. The latest from the disaster zone coming up.
You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
Spotting red light runners.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The yellow MG with a black convertible top.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: An unusual ploy to cut down on traffic crimes. That's ahead on LIVE TODAY.
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HARRIS: Made in China, this is no low-priced import. This is a rare Ming vase, or vase. And it fetched more than $10 million in a Hong Kong auction. Ten million dollars, maybe it's a vase.
The 14th century masterpiece is highly valued for its delicate shape and its rare copper red coloring. Steve Wynn, the chairman and CEO of Wynn Resorts, was the sole bidder for the vase.
Catching people who run red lights. You've probably seen the little cameras many cities use at intersections. Now West Palm Beach, Florida, is trying something a little different. You might say it's a cop decoy.
CNN's Susan Candiotti reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) OFC. DAVID OXLEY, WEST PALM BEACH POLICE: Whoo! Windy. About blew my hat off.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): OK. So he looks a little disheveled.
OXLEY: Ah, that's good.
CANDIOTTI: And before you get queasy, relax, the liquid in the bottle is only iced tea.
OXLEY: They look me at like, just poor person should be somewhere instead of the middle of this road here.
CANDIOTTI: Police Officer David Oxley is a traffic cop decoy, posing as a homeless man. See that light turning red? Oxley's a spotter calling out red light runners.
OXLEY: Eastbound, the Red Toyota in the center and the white utility truck.
CANDIOTTI: Waiting in the wings, a score of friendly, but no- nonsense motorcycle cops ready to pull over suspected offenders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reason you're stopped is for running that red light back there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly, I thought I had it beat.
CANDIOTTI: The West Palm Beach Florida Police are using this unusual ploy, because they say it catches more drivers allegedly in the act.
OXLEY: You're a good girl. You stopped at that light. That's what I'm trying to tell everybody, stop at the light!
Busy, busy day out here today!
Blue bug southbound, Congress. It's in the inside lane.
CANDIOTTI: In just over an hour, Oxley nailed about 75 motorists, including a school bus driver.
OXLEY: It's a yellow MG with a black convertible top.
CANDIOTTI: The driver of this car takes his medicine, and so did others.
(on camera): What do you think about how they're doing this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's fine.
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Often that's followed by an explanation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you watch this intersection on a normal day, traffic is usually so poor through here, that usually you can't clear the intersection in time.
CANDIOTTI: For the record, that argument usually doesn't work in court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, often, many vehicles in the flow of traffic are also in violation, but we can only get one at a time.
CANDIOTTI: Oxley's inside joke, posting the amount of a fine on a panhandling sign, $183.50.
OXLEY: Get off those phones! You're not paying attention, people.
We like to think that we're educating the people out here, and that's what our main mission is to do out here.
SGT. RICHARD OLSEN, WEST PALM BEACH POLICE: Maybe next time when those people are approaching an intersection and thinking about running a red light, maybe they'll look around real quick to see if they see a homeless person, and say, maybe it's him again.
CANDIOTTI: Or a construction worker, and even a streetwalker.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Susan Candiotti's report first aired on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING". You can catch "AMERICAN MORNING" each weekday morning, beginning at 6:00 a.m. Eastern.
How's Barbaro doing? Coming up, a veterinarian who takes care of the recovering Kentucky Derby winner ever day.
You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Well, there seems to be no end to the gator attacks in Florida. It's been a weird record-breaking sort of spring down there. It's not just people the gators are going after. Dogs have been grabbed and eaten. But one Florida man fought back for his pet.
Reporter Nicole Linsalata of our Miami affiliate WSVN has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE RUBIN, DOG'S OWNER: She was dead. She was not breathing.
NICOLE LINSALATA, REPORTER, WSVN (voice over): But 6-month-old Jasmine has only a cut on her jaw and a slight injury to her eye to show for her battle with a gator. Monday night, a gator swims in a pond on the edge of the Coral Springs neighborhood, where 10 hours earlier, Jasmine's owner Mike Rubin took her out for a run. RUBIN: She went ahead of me and down the embankment. And within 10 seconds after that, I heard a big -- a big yelp from her. And I assumed the gator grabbed her.
LINSALATA: Rubin jumped in chest deep in water and muck.
RUBIN: I had my dog like this, and I was hitting the gator on the top of the head. I don't think I did that more than three, four times and wasn't getting anywhere. And I tried to pry its mouth off. It was -- it was crazy. I just gave him one big yank, and I got the -- and the dog came loose and I just pushed -- rushed -- scurried right up on to the bank, and thank god the gator didn't -- at that point, I think he decided we were too much of a hassle.
LINSALATA: Rubin said...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: We'll get back to that story in just a moment.
Right now, I want to show you video from just a few moments ago from the White House, and President Bush accepting the credentials of the new Iraqi ambassador to the United States. His name is Samir Sumaidaie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I look forward to working with you, Mr. Ambassador, and the new government, to help Iraq become a country that can govern itself and sustain itself and defend itself. I'm confident in the future of liberty in Iraq, because I believe the people of Iraq want to live in a free society. And although there's been some very difficult times for the Iraqi people, I am impressed by the courage of the leadership, impressed by the determination of the people, and want to assure you, sir, that the United States stands ready to help the Iraqi democracy succeed.
So welcome here to the Oval Office. Thank you for coming.
SAMIR SUMAIDAIE, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO UNITED STATES: Thank you, Mr. President. I'm honored and privileged to serve as the ambassador of a free Iraq after 16 years of isolation, to represent my country to this great country, to have a voice for the new elected Iraqi government, and to communicate that (ph) with this administration and with the people of the United States to express our ambitions and desire to live in peace and remove the threat of terrorism from our land and help others remove it from theirs.
The president said a couple of days ago in his radio address that the terrorists can kill innocent people but they cannot stop the march of freedom. I echo those words and say that the terrorists can target the innocent and the weak and the vulnerable, but they will never stop us establishing a democratic and free country.
I'm proud to represent this country to you, Mr. President.
BUSH: Thank you, ambassador. Very well done. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The president there accepting the credentials of the new Iraqi ambassador to the United States. I have to say, it's been billed as sort of a largely symbolic event. Can't remember last time I've seen this event before, this particular ceremony. The president with this ceremony, showing that progress is being made, obviously, in Iraq and that the new government is moving forward.
The scenes from Indonesia are hard to watch. Entire towns and villages flattened by a huge earthquake. The latest from the disaster zone straight ahead.
You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: To Indonesia now and the island of Java. The destruction is almost unbelievable.
That region shaken by a big earthquake just three days ago, and the ground is still shaking. Another quake, a bit smaller, struck earlier today, 2,000 miles to the east.
On Java there's very little hope of finding any more survivors from Saturday's quake. The death toll already above 5,400 and climbing. Thousands more are injured and tens of thousands are believed to be homeless.
A military truck lost its brakes. U.S. authorities say that's the cause of a traffic accident in Afghanistan. The wreck ignited deadly riots.
The truck plowed into civilian vehicles at a group of pedestrians in Kabul, Monday. That sparked the worst violence since the fall of the Taliban.
The Afghan health ministry says at least eight were killed in the looting and riots that followed the accident, more than a hundred others injured. The U.S. military says a preliminary investigation found the driver tried to slow the truck by hitting several unoccupied parked cars but says the driver wasn't able to avoid the occupied vehicles and pedestrians.
War against the Taliban. Washington calls it a success. But developments in Afghanistan call that victory into question.
CNN's Brian Todd explains. His report first aired on "THE SITUATION ROOM".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): If a traffic accident can spark a deadly riot in Kabul, if the Taliban can come back with a vengeance, and if the drug trade is still flourishing, then is the post-9/11 Western model for Afghanistan crumbling? It depends on who you ask.
This protester in Kabul has one answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they're driving on the road, killing innocent people. We want America out of this country sooner or later! We hate America!
TODD: And one Western journalist in Afghanistan describes the situation as "quite bleak." "The perceived inability of the central government to extend its control over the whole country," he says, "is a huge factor."
Analysts believe that has led to the Tailbone's deadly resurgence in the south. As U.S. troops scale back and NATO forces move in there, Taliban militia are taking advantage of the porous border with Pakistan to launch offensives. Drug traffickers, they say, are also filling the void, allying with the Taliban and infiltrating the Afghan government.
But despite its problems, Afghanistan has made important strides.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The terror camps have been shut down. Women are working. Boys and girls are going to school. And Afghans have chosen a president and a new parliament in free elections.
TODD: Other signs of progress, analysts say, don't get much visibility.
BRIG. GEN. JAMES MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: The economy has improved by about 80 percent over the course of the last four years. Infrastructure is being built, those are the schools, and the hospitals and the road network. The training of the Afghanistan military and security forces is increasing. And there is an increased presence of Afghanistan command and control over the security that takes place within the country.
TODD (on camera): Those Afghan security forces, analysts believe, are key to the very delicate balance here. Their ability to win the trust of local villagers and warlords in the coming months and years, they say, will mean the difference between stability in some parts of Afghanistan and chaos in other areas.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And you can see more of Brian Todd's reporting weekdays in THE SITUATION ROOM. Join Wolf Blitzer at 4:00 p.m. Eastern and in primetime at 7:00.
Critically wounded, but responsive and likely to survive. That's the latest medical update on CBS correspondent Kimberly Dozier. The same roadside bomb that wounded her yesterday also killed two colleagues. She she's being treated at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany. One emergency room worker says the CBS reporter likely would have died if she suffered such gruesome injuries in the United States. That's because of the extraordinary abilities at the Baghdad emergency room where she was rushed. This is where her life was likely saved. CNN just happened to be shooting a documentary there when she arrived. Here are some of the comments from the medical staff in the moments after that treatment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. TIFFANY FUSCO, U.S. MILITARY HOSPITAL BAGHDAD: Her blood pressure dropped to a point where we could barely see where it was anymore. We could barely assess it. Basically it means that she was going down, and she did pretty hard, but we were able to get her back by giving her fluids and medications.
LT. COL. BOB MAZUR, U.S. MILITARY HOSPITAL BAGHDAD: At one point her pulse stopped. She didn't have a heartbeat. She was as sick as you get. The fact that she's alive, of course, is great. It's a miracle pretty much. She's lucky to get to the 10th Cache. She's lucky the 10th Cache is here.
MAJOR SAM MEHTA, U.S. MILITARY HOSPITAL BAGHDAD: If this severe trauma would have happened back home in the States, she would have probably died.
I think, for me, Memorial Day will never be the same. While I do remember those who have died for our country in past wars and previous conflicts, for me this will also be a day that I remember as memory of people who have lived, because we -- our team -- saved the life of seven soldiers and Ms. Dozier.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Man, that brings it home.
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HARRIS: When we come back, we promised an update on Kentucky Derby winner Barbaro. Stay with us. You're watching CNN's LIVE TODAY.
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HARRIS: We have an update for you on Barbaro, the horse that won the Kentucky Derby, but shattered is ankle in the Preakness. His vets just met. And the word is good. The experts say Barbaro is spunky and showing no signs of being depressed about the injury. You may remember the chief surgeon gave Barbaro a 50/50 chance of recovery. Those chances have improved, but it is still, we understand, a close call. The vets say Barbaro looks much better than expected.
Dr. Liberty Getman joins us on the phone from Pennsylvania. She's the vet who takes care of Barbaro every day. Liberty, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.
DR. LIBERTY GETMAN, VETERINARIAN: Oh, no problem.
HARRIS: Hey, describe this horse that you work with every day. Now, what kind of personality does Barbaro have?
GETMAN: He's a really nice horse, which is great, because often times, young colts can be really hard to work with. But actually in his case, he's very affectionate, very friendly and very cooperative. He does pretty much anything you ask him to do and always has a great attitude.
HARRIS: Yes, now talk about that attitude. You describe him as having a bit of an air about him.
GETMAN: Yes, he definitely does. I mean, the way he -- I think horses are kind of like people in that they all do have different personalities. And he certainly presents himself as a very confident horse, you know, very in control of his situation and definitely acts like you would expect a champion to.
HARRIS: So how is he doing? And I don't want the whole technical analysis of the injury and what the x-rays show. But how is he doing?
GETMAN: He's doing very well. He's very comfortable in his stall, very interested in his surroundings. Perks up and walks to the front of the stall whenever anything is going on outside there. And a pretty happy, content horse. Spends most of his day eating hay and things like that.
HARRIS: Yes, that's interesting, you say he's comfortable in his stall. That -- how do you explain that? This is a horse who loves to run, a powerful horse. Man, we loved seeing this horse run at the Kentucky Derby. How do you explain the fact that he seems, at least now, to be comfortable in the stall?
GETMAN: Well, I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he is such an intelligent horse. And I think he is smart enough to know that he does have an injury, and that he needs to kind of settle down and take care of himself. So, I mean, he seems very content with the life and I think that's just because he's being very smart about the whole situation.
HARRIS: I know that his chances of survival are improving. If he ultimately makes it, how much of it will be due to medical advancements and how much of it, in your opinion, will be due to the horse's, Barbaro's, personality?
GETMAN: Well, I think a lot of it will have to do with a lot of advances that have happened in veterinary medicine, such as our anesthesia being safer and recovery and better implants and things like that. But then you do certainly get to a point where there's an intangible quality to all of these cases. And that is, you know, how well the horse is going to participate in their healing. And so I don't know that I could put a percentage on it, but it definitely plays a role.
HARRIS: Dr. Getman, you like this horse?
GETMAN: I love him. Yes, he's a great horse.
HARRIS: Thanks for your time this morning.
GETMAN: No problem.
HARRIS: We appreciate it.
GETMAN: Thank you.
HARRIS: Dr. Liberty Getman, taking care of Barbaro.
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HARRIS: We'll take a break. More of CNN's LIVE TODAY right after this.
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HARRIS: Crossing the line. House hearings this morning as lawmakers look into the FBI raid on Congressman William Jefferson's office. He's linked to a bribery probe. Some lawmakers think the search violates the Constitution and blurs the line that separates the presidency from the Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN CONYERS (D), MICHIGAN: This is a historic moment in the House of Representatives. I've been on the Judiciary Committee for four decades now, and never has anything of this nature come to our attention and require that we try to bring the three branches of government into more harmony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Well, joining us to talk about the hearing is law professor Jonathan Turley and civil rights attorney Avery Friedman.
Jonathan, we're going to get started with you. And, Avery, we'll talk to you in just a second.
Jonathan, how would you describe the discussion this morning?
JONATHAN TURLEY, LAW PROFESSOR: Well, it was an excellent discussion, and more importantly, it was a bipartisan discussion. The Republicans and Democrats were equally aggrieved, quite frankly, to something that is unprecedented.
What the administration did here was to shatter 219 years of tradition, of how we deal with these things. They could have gotten all of this material in the way that they had for 219 years. There was no exigency. There was no great necessity. But what they did, they threatened to tear down the door of this office when capital police approached. They wouldn't allow the general counsel of the House of Representatives to even be present to witness it, and they barred Congressman Jefferson's own attorney. It was really an amazing act of, in my view of arrogance. And I think Congress is rightfully upset and needs to take steps about this.
HARRIS: Well, former Speaker Gingrich calls this raid the most blatant violation of the constitutional separation of powers in my lifetime, and obviously you agree with that?
TURLEY: Well, I agree that this is a profound affront to Congress. It's a profound insult, not just because it was unnecessary, but because it violated all of these procedures that have long existed.
You know, the framers put into the constitution a doctrine of separation of powers, and this shatters that doctrine in many respects.
HARRIS: What do you think is going to come out of this hearing?
TURLEY: I'm hoping there will be some response from Congress, and It appears that there will be. Even the conservative "Wall Street Journal" today objected to this, not just former Speaker Gingrich, but very conservative and very liberal members have come together and said, this was just simply over the top, and that what's at stake here is this critical principle that brings balance to our system. So I think that they are going to respond, and rightfully so.
HARRIS: Well, when we talked about this on Saturday or Sunday, you talked about this as being part of what might be a constitutional crisis.
TURLEY: I think we're in a deep constitutional crisis. This president has been accused repeatedly of violating the separation of powers, not just in the NSA domestic surveillance program, where many experts, including myself, believe he ordered crimes, but in a host of other areas. I mean, the Constitution is a lot like frost (INAUDIBLE) on mending fences, that good fences make good neighbors, and the framers knew that, and they put walls between the branches.
Well, quite frankly, this president is not a very good constitutional neighbor. He does not seem to respect those walls. And I believe that this search is within that broader context. That's why it's so troubling.
HARRIS: OK, Jonathan, appreciate it. Thanks you for your time this morning. Let's bring in Avery Friedman from Cleveland, Ohio.
Avery, good to see you, as always, my friend.
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to see you, Tony.
HARRIS: Well, let me give you another quote from the former speaker, who says the protection of the legislative branch from the executive branch's policing powers is a fundamental principle, which goes back to the English civil war. What are your thoughts on all of this? Friedman: Well, I think where Jonathan has it absolutely right is that it is unprecedented. What I was waiting for the panel to say, we had three lawyers and an ex-Congressman, was that what happened was unconstitutional. And you know what, nobody said it. And the reason why, is there's some authority which affords the executive branch to do what it did. The difficulty was not what they did, but how they did it. And I think Jonathan is exactly right that Congress is going to react, and it's going to react strongly. There were ideas of promoting protocol and procedures.
But I think Congress is going to take a tougher stand, Tony. I think what we're going to see here is legislation that derives from the congressional power under section 8 of article I that will afford the necessary and proper authority for Congress to say to the executive branch, you're not going to do this again.
There has been over 200 years of mutual restraint and respect, and it was broken when that raid took place.
HARRIS: Wouldn't the FBI, I'm trying to think of this as everybody else thinks of this, wouldn't the FBI have been derelict in its duty if it had not gone through the steps getting the searched the congressional office of William Jefferson?
FRIEDMAN: Yes, I agree with that. I think that is the FBI's responsibility. But overseeing the FBI is the U.S. attorney and the Department of Justice. FBI is part of it. And there is a protocol, a process. That process was disregarded. And so because of the overage, Jonathan was also right in this respect. We have an administration that has been slapped pretty good by the supreme court in its overreach. This is another example. When you have an abuse of authority by one branch in the American constitution or the other, the other branches react.
So what we're going to see -- and it's the majesty of the Constitution, Tony, that triggers this -- Congress is going to make the executive branch pay a penalty. We're going to see legislation.
HARRIS: Wow. Avery, good to see you.
FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you, too.
HARRIS: Thanks for your time.
FRIEDMAN: Sure.
Well, take a look at this. This is what a California bird rescue group found inside a sick duck. See the circle part there? Many people say it looks like the tiny face of a space alien. Obviously it's some sort of an anomaly. But the rescue group sees funding potential here. Here it is on eBay, just the X-ray, not the duck. Only five days left to place a bid. It won't cheap. As of this morning, the bidding is over $6,000.
The private side of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice now. We recently gave you a list of her favorite music, but who could have guessed she has a passion for "American Idol?" Yes, the State Department confirms Rice took time out of the week, last week, to watch the finale, rooting for winner Taylor Hicks, and sending him a "way to go" letter. It might have something to do with the fact that they're both from Alabama. The State Department says Rice also spends idle time watching "Law & Order." And before it went off the air, she was locked on to the "Bernie Mac Show." Who knew?
I'm Tony Harris. International news is up next. Stay turned to "YOUR WORLD TODAY." And I'll be back with the latest headlines from the United States in about 20 minutes.
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