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Nancy Grace

8-Year-Old Found in Colorado; Clemson University Student Strangled

Aired May 30, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news just in to the studio, well into day four in an intense search for an 8-year-old boy missing in the Colorado mountains, out under the hot sun, elevations over 7,000 feet, 8- year-old Evan Thompson, no food, no water, just a few moments before we went to air, Evan reported alive.
And tonight, breaking news, live to South Carolina, a 20-year-old Clemson University co-ed brutally strangled to death. Murder weapon? A bikini top still around the girl`s neck when she was discovered dead in her own apartment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn`t define anybody they have as a suspect, but they have certainly I would say people of interest that they`re looking for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, murder mystery at South Carolina`s Clemson University. A straight-A civil engineering student, 20-year-old Tiffany Marie Souers, strangled to death, motive unknown, suspect unknown, weapon a bikini top around her neck when she was found.

But first tonight, search teams on foot, horseback, all-terrain vehicles and helicopter united in the search for an 8-year-old missing boy, vanished from a campsite high in the Colorado mountains. Did tiny footprints from the boy`s Spider-Man shoes lead to his safe recovery just moments before we went to air? Tonight, we are taking your calls, your questions, and most important, your tips.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got to be strong so that my son can stay strong. And I hope they find him soon because I don`t want him to spend another night outside!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re always, you know, telling me, Oh, he`s special needs child and everything. Well, then, you should have been watching him better. You think you can do things better than me, then you should have been watching my son because he`s my only son!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s go straight out to a reporter from KVOR, Richard Randall. Richard, tell me about discovery of the boy. And how the heck did he get lost in the Colorado mountains?

RICHARD RANDALL, KVOR-TV: It`s easy to get lost in the Colorado mountains, Nancy. Even if you`re in a campsite, if you walk off in many of the areas out here, it doesn`t take too far before you`re in wilderness. You have to contend with the elements and the possibility of predators like mountain lions, bear and coyotes.

This 8-year-old outdoors for three nights, four days, no food, no water, just the clothing that he had on when he left that campsite. But the word came down just a little bit ago, right before your program started, that he was found. "Alive and well" are the key words, "alive and well." They are bringing him off the mountain.

The details as to exactly what led them to him, we`re still waiting to out. The boy`s family members rode in search vehicles today. They were using loudspeakers, calling for the boy. And of course, that very significant development earlier in the search, they found his footprints with the Spider-Man shoes that he had. It does pay to have distinctive shoes on your young boy

GRACE: Well, Richard -- with us from KVOR, Richard Randall -- I have hiked extensively throughout the Colorado mountains, including the Rockies. And I don`t understand when you`re with a group, when people are in charge of taking care of an 8-year-old child, how the child can get away. I`ve heard conflicting reports that the child started running, and I guess, what, ran into the sunset. Then I heard a report that someone turned their head, and they turned back and the child had vanished.

Now, how does a child get lost when they`re with a group, including adults?

RANDALL: Well, that`s the whole problem. We`re still trying to sort that out, as well, exactly how the boy did get lost. But we`ve had a number of cases out had, two of them that come to mind right off the bat, one where a boy ultimately was killed by a mountain lion up north of Denver a few years back. He was hiking with a number of people along a trail, a number of people in a church group, and he was lost, ultimately found later on, killed. And a similar case probably about five years ago, a boy with autism, a 5-year-old boy who was in the backyard. Mom went into the house for just a few minutes, and he was gone.

I guess it`s a lesson of caution for all of us when it comes to young children, whether they`re 3, 5 or 8 years old, especially some of them who might have attention disorder or autism, things like that. You just can`t turn your back at all when you`re in the wild

GRACE: Richard, who was with the boy?

RANDALL: We`re still trying to find that out, as well, Nancy. There are conflicting reports on whether it was a foster mother or whether it was family members or whether it was a teacher or a combination of those. And we`re getting conflicting reports from some of the search people, as well as some of the sheriff`s folks down here in Colorado, as well.

GRACE: Very quickly, speaking of the mom, joining us right now in her first live national interview, Evan`s mother, Mary Thompson. Ms. Thompson, thank you for being with us.

MARY THOMPSON, EVAN`S MOTHER: Thank you very much for having me.

GRACE: Who was Evan with on the camping trip?

THOMPSON: From what I was told, he was with a teacher and some other students.

GRACE: Do we know how many adults were with the students?

THOMPSON: No, I do not know.

GRACE: When was the last time you spoke with Evan?

THOMPSON: Last Wednesday, when I had a visit with him.

GRACE: And who does he live with now?

THOMPSON: He is with my older brother and his wife.

GRACE: Was he excited about the camping trip?

THOMPSON: I never heard anything about it until my mom mentioned it to me.

GRACE: He`s living with foster parents, correct?

THOMPSON: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: He`s 8 years old, right?

THOMPSON: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: And you think he may have been with a teacher? You still don`t know?

THOMPSON: I don`t know. I wasn`t informed of him going camping or anything.

GRACE: Well, when did police tell you that he was missing?

THOMPSON: The police never told me. The social worker called my mother, and she let me know.

GRACE: Take a listen to what that foster mom had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got a little overzealous, a little excited, and just wandered off. And he just doesn`t have the skills. And he`s been out one night by himself already. He hasn`t eaten in over 24 hours. He`s not on his medication.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Of course, what may have led to finding this little boy -- the big news, the big headline tonight is this 8-year-old boy has been found, there has been an intensive search for this 8-year-old, Evan Thompson -- is due to his distinctive Spider-Man shoes. Just before we went to air, we learned that they had been tracking the footprints off his shoes.

Now, to Alan Ripka, remember the horrible, horrible incident when O.J. Simpson was allowed to do a demonstration in court without practicing first? You remember that, Alan Ripka?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I sure do.

GRACE: That horrible, horrible moment. Well, this would be a demonstration that you would see in court. Of course, it should be practiced and practiced and practiced. These are Spider-Man shoes. And let`s get a close-up of this. As you can see, Spider-Man -- can we get a close-up of that, Dusty (ph)? Dusty -- there you go. Spider-Man, with Spider-Man`s picture here. And this is how it would work in court as a demonstration.

OK. This is how this boy was found. It leaves a very distinctive marking. And it`s my understanding -- to Richard Randall -- that there were very fresh prints found, Spider-Man tennis shoes, correct?

RANDALL: That`s correct. We know that at least there were those prints found on Sunday and perhaps yesterday. We don`t know whether there were any of those prints found today, or whether it was specifically those prints that led them to the boy or whether there was a visual contact from the air...

GRACE: Yes.

RANDALL: ... or, as we said, some of the family members were calling for that boy, as well. But one of key elements early on in terms of where they were going to center this search has to do with the fact that they knew specifically those footprints were tied to the young man who was missing.

GRACE: Let`s go to Tom Brown, Jr. (ph), wilderness expert. He`s been called in on many, many missing persons cases in Colorado. What were they looking for, Tom?

TOM BROWN, JR., WILDERNESS EXPERT: You know what`s funny, I just was listening to the interviews, and the boy that was taken off by a mountain lion -- we were actually on that case about two weeks after the fact. And we found out -- we found where the mountain lion had actually taken the child.

GRACE: OK, back to this case. With us, Tom Brown, Jr., wilderness expert. Tom, in this case. or when children are taken up into the mountains on hiking trips, what is the advice? How did this kid just wander off?

BROWN: Well, you know, that`s the problem. If you`ve got one adult in charge of a child, that adult is very aware of where that child is. But if they`re spread over, over several adults, what they think is everybody else is watching them, and they let down their guard. And that`s what happens. He wanders off.

GRACE: Back to Richard Randall with KVOR. Tell us about how they found the boy. Do you think it was by helicopter sighting?

RANDALL: You know, I really can`t speculate, at this point. I know that they did thermal imaging overnight. They have a helicopter come in, and of course, the warmth of a body is going to show up, as opposed to the background. One of the problems that you have, a number of searchers will tell you, is that sometimes the stone or the cliffs will retain the heat. It makes it a little bit difficult.

They didn`t fine any images the other night when they used the helicopter there. They had one airplane and two helicopters in the area, as well. There was about 90 people searching on the ground. And we`re still waiting for the details in terms of how they found this boy, but probably the very best clue that they had, had to be those footprints.

GRACE: To Mary Thompson. This is little Evan`s mother. When were you told he was found?

THOMPSON: I was here at the studio. Naomi (ph) from CNN, she called me.

GRACE: Naomi from Headline News, our Naomi.

THOMPSON: Yes.

GRACE: So you heard from our show that your son had been found?

THOMPSON: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: How close in contact are you with the foster parents?

THOMPSON: Well, he`s my oldest brother and that`s his wife. And lots of extenuating circumstances have happened, but we`re still family. We still communicate.

GRACE: To psychotherapist Dr. Leslie Austin (ph). Little Evan had been diagnosed with ADHD. What is that?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It makes it very hard for him to focus, to keep his attention on things. He may be hyperactive, talking a lot, can`t keep his attention straight. He`s probably taking medication, and that would be a concern, that he hasn`t had it.

GRACE: To Leslie Snadowsky, investigative reporter. Leslie, can you tell us about his discovery? How did it happen?

LESLIE SNADOWSKY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, you know, this boy -- first of all, it`s fantastic news, isn`t it? And he just overcame so many odds. I mean, he disappeared Saturday morning, 10:00 o`clock. It`s been four days. He`s had no food. He`s been dealing with tough elements. I mean, the weather has been OK, but in terms of terrain, really rugged terrain. There are actually cliffs that are 150 feet tall, a lot of trees. And I think your local reporter mentioned the wild animals. Supposedly, at that time of year in that part of the country, the bears just come out of hibernation. I mean, it`s (INAUDIBLE) that he was able to survive!

GRACE: You know, it`s amazing to me -- do we know any circumstances surrounding his discovery, who found him, how they found him, where was he, how he got away, any of that?

SNADOWSKY: Well, as far as I know, in terms of the -- the -- where, what and when about where he was found and how and everything, I don`t think that`s been released yet. But I do know it was 10:00 o`clock on Saturday when he just wandered off. He was having breakfast with that teacher and his classmates. And that was it. He vanished. And Sunday they found some footprints. Monday they found some footprints. There were over 70 searchers, I believe, out on Monday, looking for him. So it`s just amazing he was found.

GRACE: Here is what the search and rescue team had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tracks aren`t continuous. You know, they`ll appear and then they`ll disappear, and they`ll have to search for them again. And they`ll find the tracks going off in another direction.

His thought process may be now, Oh, I`m lost, I don`t know where I am, and now there`s people chasing after me, not realizing that we`re there to help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And we are waiting for a presser out of Colorado to find out exactly how little Evan was found. Before we take you down to Clemson University, back to Leslie Snadowsky. Why were they so convinced Evan was still alive?

SNADOWSKY: Well, again, the temperature was OK. I think it was between 60 and 70 both during the day and the night. The -- it wasn`t raining. Again, the terrain was rough, but they say on two, three, four days out, the boy, being his age, he probably would be OK. They were a lot of caves in the area. They were actually looking inside caves that he maybe found shelter there. They were all pretty optimistic, which is something very interesting about this particular search. They were all very optimistic the little boy would be found. The footprints, though, were found three miles away from that campsite. So that boy wandered far.

GRACE: Back to Mary Thompson. This is Evan`s biological mom. Tell us about him. Would he even know how to take care of himself in a situation like this?

THOMPSON: No. This was his first outing into the mountains at all, camping, anything. Just by the Grace of God and the protection of God is how he made it.

GRACE: Mary, do you know how many other children were there?

THOMPSON: No, I do not.

GRACE: So you know nothing about this whole event.

THOMPSON: No, ma`am, I do not.

GRACE: Finally, some good news tonight. We are reporting 8-year-old Evan Thompson, as we go to air, has been found. We are waiting for a presser as to how he was found. And how did he get away? And we`ll bring you that as soon as it happens.

And very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Today marks the one-year anniversary in the case of a missing Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway, the entire time Aruban authorities playing catch-and-release, taking 10 people into custody, then releasing them, still no closer to finding out where is Natalee, Natalee last seen leaving a local nightspot with three local men, including a judge`s son, vanished without a trace.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a junior studying engineering. Tiffany`s mother describes her a classic overachiever who volunteered with charities, always helping others, a calling her mom believes will live on, even if her daughter will not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sure she`s at peace and happy. (INAUDIBLE) more work for her to do up there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are on the case of a missing girl out of Clemson University. Joining us right now, Samantha Epps, reporter with "The Anderson Independent Mail." Samantha, thank you for being with us. Please bring us up to date. Samantha, are you there?

Let`s go to Ed Miller with "America`s Most Wanted." Ed, tell us about this girl.

ED MILLER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Well, Nancy, a super high achiever, as you mentioned, not just a straight-A college student but a straight-A college student one in engineering, one of the most difficult curriculums around. Not only that, she was a debutante, well loved by everyone on campus. And she gave of her time. She was very active in charities. So all in all, one of those people, according to her family and friends, that no one could ever want to harm. She had no known enemies, and again, loved by so many people, super high achiever, not a care in the world, seemingly.

GRACE: We are bringing you the story out of Clemson University regarding a 20-year-old girl found dead in her own apartment. Back to Ed Miller. Ed, what were the circumstances of her death?

MILLER: The circumstances of her death -- and again, without compromising the investigation in any way, we know that she was strangled with the top of her bikini top, at least according to the coroner. That`s all they`re saying. And they are saying, most importantly, that there was no forced entry into her off-campus apartment.

Now, before anybody gets carried away with that, that does not necessarily mean that she knew the killer. It does mean that there was no forced entry. And I know you and I have chatted before. The two names that come to mind about no forced entry, Elizabeth Smart. There was no forced entry in the Elizabeth Smart case, either, but somebody came in and took her out of her home. So I mean, it`s important to analyze that very carefully.

GRACE: Let`s just take a look at these facts. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Safety, calm are very important. And speculation is one of the things that leads to suspects having more information than they need. And at this point, we don`t want them to know anything that we know until we`re able to exhaust every possible lead. I wouldn`t define anybody they have as a suspect, but they have certainly we`d say people of interest that we`re looking for.

The investigation itself took well into the late evening hours and into the early morning hours. By that time, the -- he related to me the body was then moved for the purposes of autopsy, which was early Saturday morning. And then the autopsy was performed here in Greenville by the forensic pathologist on Saturday morning. So I don`t think there was a delay, other than there was a very lengthy processing of the scene before the body was removed, not to disturb any evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are talking about a young girl found dead in her own apartment near Clemson University.

Let`s try Samantha Epps one more time, with "The Anderson Independent Mail." Samantha, are you with us?

SAMANTHA EPPS, "ANDERSON INDEPENDENT MAIL": Yes. Hello. How are you?

GRACE: Hi, dear. Thank you for being with us. Bring us up to date as best you can.

EPPS: Well, I think you were listening to some video from the news conference today. And basically, this (INAUDIBLE) was just telling everybody...

GRACE: Right, right, right, right. We heard that.

EPPS: Right.

GRACE: I`m trying to find out -- you know what? I`ll ask you some pointed questions.

EPPS: Sure.

GRACE: Was she living alone?

EPPS: We understand that her roommate had just gone home for the summer, and so...

GRACE: So yes.

EPPS: At this time, she was.

GRACE: OK. Was there a forced entry, to our knowledge?

EPPS: No, there was no evidence of...

GRACE: OK.

EPPS: ... a forced entry.

GRACE: Anything stolen, Samantha?

EPPS: Not that we understand.

GRACE: Did he live on a first floor, a bottom floor, or higher up?

EPPS: I believe that she lived on a terrace apartment. When I visited the complex, it said that her apartment was a terrace one.

GRACE: Now, terrace apartment -- would that be on the bottom floor?

EPPS: I believe it was on the top.

GRACE: Interesting. Now, last question. Do we know if her windows were open or closed at the time of the incident?

EPPS: No, we don`t know that.

GRACE: Samantha, was she dating anyone?

EPPS: From what we understand, she was not dating anyone, did not have a boyfriend.

GRACE: Samantha, why was she there over the summer holiday?

EPPS: She was enrolled in summer school, and had also been in town to volunteer at the local charity.

GRACE: You know, everything I`m hearing about her, she was some girl. She was taking summer classes to graduate early. She was intent on finishing a civil engineering degree in four years, as opposed to the traditional five...

EPPS: Right.

GRACE: ... donated tons of time to philanthropies and charities. How was her body found, Samantha?

EPPS: (INAUDIBLE) it was found on the floor of her bedroom, and that she was -- had a bikini top around her neck.

GRACE: Was she wearing anything else?

EPPS: We heard reports today that she only was wearing underwear.

GRACE: And any sign of a struggle?

EPPS: At this point, authorities are not saying.

GRACE: Samantha Epps is with us from "The Anderson Independent Mail." Samantha, I have read in numerous reports that this was a very safe and secure area. In fact, they very rarely would even lock their doors.

EPPS: Right. It is a very safe community. And some of the students that I spoke with the other day said that they don`t always lock their doors because they feel that safe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are trying to create a timeline, at this point, trying to go back and backtrack her steps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, we are taking your questions, your calls and your tips regarding a 20-year-old Clemson University coed found dead in her own apartment.

Let`s go out to the VP of student affairs there at Clemson University. Gail DiSabatino is with us. Welcome, Gail. This must have struck fear in everybody`s heart, the discovery that Tiffany has been killed.

GAIL DISABATINO, VP OF STUDENT AFFAIRS, CLEMSON UNIV.: It has struck fear. It has struck sadness. People are shocked.

GRACE: Gail, was this apartment complex popular? How close was it to the campus? And was it monitored by police at all?

DISABATINO: Well, it`s off-campus. It`s actually in another town. We`re in Clemson, and the apartment complex is in Central (ph). But it`s a small area, so just a few miles from campus. And the Central police, that would be their jurisdiction. And you know, require -- or they make rounds, just like any other police department would.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Tiffany Souers` mother, thought of when she spoke to her daughter.

We were close. You know, we spoke every day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The daily chats kept them in touch while Tiffany attended classes at Clemson, miles away from her home in St. Louis. Brenda Souers says she spoke to Tiffany this past Thursday with no idea the conversation with be their last.

BREN SOUERS, MOTHER OF MURDERED WOMAN: It`s just hard to make reason out of it. You want logic to apply, and it doesn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clemson police say that the next day Tiffany was strangled to death in her home at this apartment complex in Central. A friend found her body in the living room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great girl, brilliant, very smart, very pretty, very wonderful person to be around, a lot of fun. It`s very shocking for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your questions, your calls, and your tips on the death of this 20-year-old girl, Tiffany Souers. Joining us right now, special guest, the Pickens County coroner, the medical examiner in many places, Dr. James Mahanes.

Sir, thank you for being with us.

JAMES MAHANES, PICKENS COUNTY CORONER: You`re welcome.

GRACE: It`s my understanding that she was strangled to death. Was it ligature or manual?

MAHANES: Oh, no, this was a ligature strangulation with an article of clothing that has been defined as the top of a bikini.

GRACE: Doctor -- everyone with us, Pickens County coroner Dr. James Mahanes -- how do we know it was that article of clothing that was the ligature? Everyone, the difference between manual and ligature. Manual is by hand; ligature is by some other method, like a rope, a wire or a string bikini.

MAHANES: Well, that`s correct. I mean, the examination of the ligature around the neck will tell you that. This was a tightly woven and tightly tied article of clothing that, you know, had to be placed there by some manual means. This was not done by hand strangulation.

GRACE: I understand. Was the bikini top, Doctor, still tied in a way to suggest that it was, in fact, the murder weapon?

MAHANES: Yes, it was. And, of course, by characteristics of the autopsy, it was separated in the standard fashion for evidence identification later.

GRACE: Exactly. And with us, the county coroner, Dr. James Mahanes. When he says the item was separated when the body is taken to the morgue or to the coroner, the medical examiner`s office, photos are taken of the crime scene, including the body, and then articles are typically separately handed in so as not to change anything on the body.

Doctor, very important in my mind, as a trial lawyer, was there any sign that she fought back?

MAHANES: Well, there were no distinctive signs that there were -- you know, that there was a battle, as far as that`s concerned. No specific defensive wounds were identified.

GRACE: Were her hands bagged, Doctor, when she got to the morgue?

MAHANES: Her hands were contained for, you know, the more extensive forensic examination to be done.

GRACE: And, everyone, when we ask were the hands bagged, typically a murder victim`s hands are bagged with a paper bag, in my old jurisdiction, for specific reasons, and then secured here, usually with a rubber band, in case there`s DNA or fibers under the nails.

MAHANES: Correct.

GRACE: Now, could you explain to us, Doctor, in your jurisdiction, are the hands bagged with a paper bag or a plastic bag?

MAHANES: Well, in jurisdictions under my control, they are bagged with paper bags. In this particular instance, the South Carolina law enforcement division took control of this because she was a university student and Clemson University is a state university, so they took control of this.

My knowledge at this point is that the hands were bagged in paper bags when they were sent to the autopsy at the forensic pathologist`s office.

GRACE: Doctor, I`m sorry, we lost you just one brief moment. You said in your jurisdiction paper or plastic is used?

MAHANES: We use paper.

GRACE: And could you explain why?

MAHANES: I`m sorry?

GRACE: Could you explain to the viewers why paper is preferred over plastic?

MAHANES: Well, because, if you bag something in plastic, depending on temperature and stuff like that, moisture can collect and whatnot, and it can defuse or dilute anything that might be present.

GRACE: With us, a very special guest, Pickens County coroner Dr. James Mahanes. Doctor, I know that the rape kit -- the full autopsy, let me rephrase -- the full autopsy report is not complete until you get back studies regarding whether or not this young lady was raped. How long will that take?

MAHANES: Well, we`ll wait for a toxicology to come back, of course, and we use a certified laboratory in Indiana. That usually takes about 10 to 14 days.

I am not certain of the time or how soon the South Carolina law enforcement division can produce results from this rape kit, but I would suspect that this will be what we would call a more high-profile case, and I think it would go ahead of others that they were managing, and I would expect that they would try to return it to us within weeks.

GRACE: Doctor, have you seen crime scene photos?

MAHANES: Not that the enforcement division has done. We have our own photographs that we took of the scene upon our arrival.

GRACE: Ah, so you send out your own investigator, correct?

MAHANES: Well, when there`s a death, either my deputy or myself are summoned to the scene.

GRACE: Right.

MAHANES: We make a preliminary investigation, a scene walkthrough with law enforcement. We take our photographs and stuff like that. And then, in this case, we either use our local forensic people, but the jurisdiction in this particular one came from the South Carolina law enforcement division.

GRACE: With us, the Pickens County coroner, Dr. James Mahanes is with us. A couple of questions, as much as you can recall. I also know that I`m sure that you have read an investigative report about the crime scene. Was the young lady -- I understand found on the floor. Was she face up or face down?

MAHANES: She was face up, except turned -- her head and upper torso turned slightly to the left.

GRACE: And so that sounds to me that she was not posed in any way?

MAHANES: You`d have to repeat that, please?

GRACE: Not posed. In other words...

MAHANES: Not posed, no, ma`am, no, not posed.

GRACE: It doesn`t sound like she was dragged into the bedroom having been killed elsewhere or she would have been lying flat.

MAHANES: I agree with that, yes, ma`am.

GRACE: You know what`s interesting to me, Doctor -- and I`m trying to figure out the convergence of events -- why she would be wearing a bikini swimsuit? And did she have on underwear to go...

MAHANES: I`m sorry. The fact of the matter is that she was not wearing a bikini swimsuit. This just happened to be the item that was chosen...

GRACE: Of ligature.

MAHANES: Yes. I mean...

GRACE: I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

MAHANES: It could have been anything nearby or whatever.

GRACE: You know, I was stumped on that one, Dr. Mahanes, because it occurred to me that this girl -- I don`t know if you`ve heard anything about her, but she studied 24/7, 365. She was finishing a degree in civil engineering in four years, as opposed to the five traditional, and did like 500 hours of charity work a year.

And I just don`t see her lounging around the pool. And it`s May. It`s not quite time for that. And I was wondering if this person had rifled through her drawers and grabbed a bikini top to strangle her or if she was wearing it.

MAHANES: Well, she was not wearing it at the time. And it`s been awful hot down here in South Carolina, so swimming pools are open and people are swimming. But there`s no relationship to that that I can make whatsoever.

GRACE: Do we have any indication she had just gotten out of shower or anything like that?

MAHANES: No, there`s no indication of that.

GRACE: OK. Doctor, please don`t go. With us, Dr. James Mahanes, Pickens County coroner.

Let`s go to the lines, Liz. Let`s go to Shauna in New Mexico. Hi, Shauna.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you?

GRACE: I`m great.

CALLER: It is so good to finally get through to you.

GRACE: Thank you. And I`m glad we had some good news tonight about the eight-year-old getting found, and then we turn on a dime and go to this story about this 20-year-old girl, her whole world ahead of her. I mean, this girl worked like a dog trying to achieve something. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: I know. It`s such a sad story. My question is: If he used this bikini top to strangle her, it takes a couple minutes to do that, a few minutes. If he did not have gloves on, could they pick up DNA from his sweat? And also were her panties in place or were they not where they should be on her?

GRACE: Good question.

Dr. Mahanes, did she have on her underwear?

MAHANES: Yes, let me answer that in two parts. I think -- you know, it`s speculative to say, you know, why would not he may have chosen this item. And, yes, it is possible that DNA from, you know, a palm or moisture and stuff could be defined in this clothing, but I think that would be very difficult. And the young lady was not wearing any panties. Can you hear me?

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s tragic about this is, you know, this is an aspiring young girl who was the all-American kid from all appearances. And, of course, that does have a tug at your heart strings, to worry about -- if it could happen to that person, who else could it happen to?

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GRACE: We are taking your calls, your questions and your tips -- especially your tips -- regarding the death of Tiffany Souers, a 20-year- old junior at Clemson University, straight As, a mind as sharp as a tack and beautiful to boot.

To Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, I learned pretty early or tried to learn pretty early in prosecuting the methods and assessment of suicide and homicide. And the motive of homicide strangling is a unique world unto itself. And you can make psychological and psychiatric deductions based on mode of death and manual or ligature. Explain.

AUSTIN: Yes, you can. Strangulation is a particularly personal way of killing someone. Shooting someone is much more distant. So there`s a real personal interaction with strangulation. And using an object, you want to really make sure that that person is going to die. My bet is this was a crime of passion, spontaneous, not necessarily planned, someone who knew her. That`s my guess.

GRACE: And interesting. You said you thought it was a crime of passion.

AUSTIN: Yes.

GRACE: But this young girl was not in the middle of a relationship. And very quickly, they are speaking to one person of interest after next, and they`ve all been ruled out. The field is getting wider and wider and wider, so what do you mean by that?

AUSTIN: No, I don`t mean crime of passion as in relationship. I meant whoever did this was in a heated moment and it was a spontaneous event. A moment of passion as an excited energy. I did not mean in terms of a relationship with someone.

GRACE: So, as a psychologist, do you believe the perpetrator is known or unknown to the victim?

AUSTIN: I believe the perpetrator is known to the victim.

GRACE: I agree.

To Rahul Manchanda, defense attorney, Rahul, I`ve argued many, many times to juries that we covet that which we see. In other words, very often, quite often, the majority of the time the perpetrator in a killing knows the victim. Maybe it`s a grocery boy. Maybe they think they know her. Maybe it`s a newspaper delivery boy. It could be somebody at school.

But we`re looking at this as trial lawyers, Rahul. Give me your best shot.

RAHUL MANCHANDA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s very strange, indeed. It looks like it was somebody she knew. But, you know, there was no signs of forced entry. There was no marks. You know, it was obviously somebody she knew. But the question is: What a bizarre way to kill somebody. It`s very odd. I`ve never seen that before.

GRACE: You mean strangulation? I`ve seen it a million times. What`s odd about that?

MANCHANDA: Well, the way that it was done was very odd, indeed.

GRACE: You mean, with a string bikini top?

MANCHANDA: Right, very strange, indeed.

GRACE: OK, I`ve got to agree with you on that.

To Dr. Daniel Spitz, forensic pathologist, I know you`ve dealt with a lot of strangulation cases, but for our viewers -- and this was one of toughest times in the jury trial to explain this -- what does a victim, such as Tiffany, go through at the time of death, especially if there is a struggle during a ligature strangulation?

DANIEL SPITZ, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, the whole process of strangulation can take some time. And it takes, really, at least five minutes, four to five minutes of sustained neck compression to result in the death.

And, certainly, this is a struggle that`s going to occur. The victim is going to be struggling for her life, so it may take longer, depending on how much time it takes for the assailant to get total control over the victim. But once control is achieved, then it`s at least four to five minutes of sustained neck compression.

GRACE: It`s a very, very painful process for a strangulation victim to go through. It`s not instant, like a shooting death or a high-impact in a car accident or crash. Your eyeballs literally -- the peticaea (ph), the tiny blood vessels in your eye, literally explode due to pressure in the eyes.

The blood in your head -- have you ever held around your hand or your finger and the blood gets caught in there and it begins pulsing? Imagine that around your neck and what this girl went through.

Also, I want to talk very quickly to Dr. Leslie Austin. For all we know, this is not somebody she knows. This bikini top could have been grabbed out of a drawer, someone rifled through her drawers.

AUSTIN: It could have been, but this kind of strangulation I think is very personal. I would be really surprised if it was a total stranger. And I`m sure they`ve just grabbed something convenient. We also know don`t know if the person was on drugs or not, and we know nothing about any motivation here, but it was someone she knew.

GRACE: Let`s go to Linda in Virginia. Hi, Linda.

CALLER: Hi!

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: OK, love your program.

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: The person -- I`m thinking it`s a male that found the body. Is that a person of interest?

GRACE: No, it was a former roommate, a girl. Reformulate your theory, because we`re interested, Linda. It was a female former roommate. And it`s my understanding Tiffany had decided to go to summer school. The roommate was returning a key.

To our producer, Eric Marrapodi, Eric, why is the computer important in this case?

ERIC MARRAPODI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: You know, kids in college on the computer all the time. We could be looking at a buddy list. We could be looking at e-mail she sent. Who was she talking to? Who did she know? And it`s something we know police are looking at very extensively in this case.

GRACE: You sure?

MARRAPODI: We`re positive.

GRACE: To Steven Rogers, computer specialist and a former member of the FBI joint terrorism task force, Steven, thank you for being with us. It`s an honor to have you on. How can police get into the computer and what can they find?

STEVEN ROGERS, COMPUTERS SPECIALIST: Well, they`re going to be looking for electronic footprints. Now, these are the transmissions that are both to and from her computer, up until the time that she was victimized by this atrocious crime. As your prior guest said, they`re going to be looking at e-mails. They`re going to be looking at instant messages. They`re going to be looking at Web sites. These things may lead those footprints back to who this person was that killed her.

GRACE: So you`re telling me, Steven, they can actually capture instant messages?

ROGERS: Well, yes. There are certain ISP codes that are embedded in the hard drives and that work will be done by the experts. And they`ll be able to track what Internet provider actually was involved in this. And then, once they get this information, they subpoena this information.

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B. SOUERS: She didn`t have her plans for the weekend yet. We talked about that. You know, she was fine. It was our normal conversation. And when we hung up, I said I`ll talk to you tonight or tomorrow.

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GRACE: We are talking about the case of a 20-year-old Clemson co-ed, Tiffany Souers, found dead in her apartment.

Alan Ripka, in this case, where would you head police? And I`m very concerned -- this is only a 10-man police department. And you know a lot of those cops have got to be beat cops. For necessity, it`s very difficult to process a homicide scene.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It sure is, Nancy. And I think I`d head in the direction of what we know. We know she was killed at approximately 1:30 in the morning. We know there was no forced entry, so we know she let somebody in the door, unless somebody fooled her. And I think you have to work backwards from there, and it seems like they`re doing the right thing, phone calls, e-mails, talking to friends, et cetera.

GRACE: Hey, Alan, in murder cases that you have defended, how did you attack the time of death?

RIPKA: Well, obviously, Nancy, you know, scientifically with my experts, we discussed, you know, what condition the body was in, how long you could tell it didn`t have air in it, what was left in the lungs, whether there was fluid, et cetera.

GRACE: Well, a lot we can determine if we know what time she last ate. You can look at the body and determine how far the digestive tract has gone.

Oh, here in the studio tonight, a very, very special guest, Elizabeth Grace. Mother, what this mom is going through, we talked every single day when I was in college.

ELIZABETH GRACE, MOTHER OF NANCY GRACE: Yes, yes.

GRACE: And so it would have been very odd if she had not called the mom on probably Sunday morning.

Was it Friday or Saturday, Eric, that she was...

MARRAPODI: It was Thursday that she was last dropped off and found her on Friday morning.

GRACE: So all of those days the mom was probably wondering what had happened.

Very quickly, everyone, tonight, we stop to remember three well- respected journalists, two killed, one wounded yesterday, Iraq. Three of the brave who went there so we can know the truth.

Our thoughts and prayers out to friends and loved ones of CBS News cameraman 48-year-old Paul Douglas, soundman 42-year-old James Brolan. Both died at the scene of the Baghdad explosion.

Tonight, our hearts with CBS correspondent Kimberly Dozier in critical condition at the Ramstein Air Force Base, Germany, multiple wounds to head and legs. Douglas, Brolan, Dozier, American heroes.

Thank you to all of our guests tonight. Our biggest thank you to you for being with us. I`m Nancy Grace signing off again for tonight. See you here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END