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American Morning

Marine Massacre in Haditha?; Evacuation Plan for New Orleans; Congressional Investigation

Aired May 31, 2006 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. CNN speaks with a Marine injured in that -- in that Haditha Humvee attack. We'll have his memories of that day coming up.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And I'm meteorologist Chad Myers in Atlanta. We're anxiously awaiting the new hurricane forecast. No one really expects the number to go down. We'll have that forecast for you when it comes out.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jeanne Meserve in New Orleans. I had a chance to interview Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. It's something you will see only on CNN, and it's coming up in just a few minutes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Dangerous duty in Iraq. How do soldiers deal with the stress of being in harm's way all the time on a daily basis? We're going to talk to a former general who served in Iraq.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And Humongosaurus. The remains of a giant armored dinosaur unearthed in Utah. We've got some bones to show you ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

S. O'BRIEN: And welcome, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien.

M. O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us.

A guarantee of full disclosure from the White House on the Haditha investigation. Press Secretary Tony Snow saying details of the military's investigation will be made public when it's all over. Sources are telling CNN several Marines could face murder charges in the alleged massacre of two dozen Iraqi civilians in November of last year.

CNN's Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon this morning with more -- Kathleen.

KOCH: Good morning, Miles.

And the Pentagon, the U.S. Marine Corps is not commenting on any of the evidence that they have obtained in the investigation thus far. They say they really want to take no chance of jeopardizing it in any way, shape or form. So they're withholding, really saying anything about it. But apparently more hard evidence is emerging that does support the claims of civilians in the area that the 24 victims were intentionally shot by the U.S. Marines. And this from "The New York Times," information that it has obtained from a senior military official in Iraq. And he tells them that the death certificates on the 24 civilians show that they were all victims of gunshot wounds, mostly to the head and chest.

This is corroborated by information that CNN has already obtained from congressional sources who told us that on the 24 victims, seven were women, three were children, most of them shot in their beds. There were also five victims, five unarmed men in a taxi who were also shot.

And sources say that this investigation is substantially complete and could result in murder charges as soon as next month.

Back to you.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Kathleen, tell us -- I understand that we spoke with one of the Marines who was actually there, he was in the Humvee. He had some things to say about this.

KOCH: We did, Miles. Of course this whole incident started when the Humvee was hit by a roadside bomb. One Marine was killed. One was injured. And he shared with us his memories of that day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CPL. JAMES CROSSAN, U.S. MARINES CORPS.: It just happened like -- the last thing I knew, we were driving back, and we were -- me and K.J. (ph) were just talking crap to one another. And the next thing I knew, I was down on the ground, and then passing out again.

That day haunts me, because when we were at the top, I was going to switch positions with him and drive back. And I don't know, I just didn't go through with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Now, Corporal Crossan's Humvee was actually split in two by the force of that roadside bomb. He suffered numerous injuries, including a broken back. And as you heard, he said he passed out several times. So he really has no memory, he claims, of what the other Marines did after the incident.

Back to you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Kathleen Koch, thank you -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: We are expecting to get a new hurricane forecast in less than an hour or so. Let's check in with Chad Myers, our severe weather expert, to see what that new forecast might look like.

Hey, Chad.

MYERS: Good morning, Soledad.

(WEATHER REPORT) S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Chad.

MYERS: You're welcome.

S. O'BRIEN: And just in time for the new hurricane season, Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff was in New Orleans to see how the city's evacuation plans are coming.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve got an exclusive chance to ride along with the secretary, something you're going to see only on CNN.

Hey, Jeanne. Good morning.

MESERVE: Good morning, Soledad. Secretary Chertoff came here to find the answer to one question: Is New Orleans ready for hurricane season?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I.D., please? OK. Your last name?

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Chertoff, C-H-E- R-T-O-F-F.

MESERVE (voice over): Secretary Chertoff plays an evacuee to get a firsthand taste of what will happen if another big storm beelines for Orleans.

CNN was given exclusive access to Chertoff's visit to the city. He is looking for potholes, roadblocks, unexpected obstacles in hurricane planning, and he finds them. There is the city's emergency communications system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can communicate to the surrounding parishes and up the state, but we have to do it through a system of patches.

MESERVE: The system is gerry-rigged, far from perfect, but workable, says Chertoff. A local hospital shows off three new emergency generators, but acknowledges it may have staffing problems in a big storm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the big issues that we have to worry about this year is people are afraid.

MESERVE: Riding a city bus, just as an evacuee would, Chertoff says there's one glaring problem.

CHERTOFF: I think the biggest outstanding challenge for us is shelter for people being evacuated.

MESERVE: Chertoff is working with the governor to find more shelter space in Louisiana, but it is a thorny issue. Some communities experienced problems with Katrina evacuees, and are reluctant to open doors next time around. CHERTOFF: At the end of the day, we're all in this together, and we can't have a situation where people throw people out of a lifeboat, because they say, well, not in my lifeboat.

MESERVE: New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin brings the secretary another problem. The Regional Transit Authority will run out of money the very month hurricane season starts.

MAYOR RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: That will mean that drivers will be laid off, and we won't have enough people to implement our evacuation plan.

MESERVE: Chertoff says the federal government will pay if it has to keep the drivers on the job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: A great unknown, whether or not storm-weary New Orleanians will get out of the city when they are told to. Chertoff says that could undercut some of the planning that's been done.

Back to you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Jeanne, a quick question for you. Chertoff, in a nutshell, does he feel that the government is prepared or not prepared, or not as well prepared as they could be?

MESERVE: Well, he talks about what's been done here in very positive terms, he talks about what's been happening at the federal level, that they've improved logistics, improved communications, they've taken steps to improve customer service. But is it enough? He always says you just don't know what nature is going to throw at you.

So I guess the first big storm will be the first big test -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Unfortunately, yes. You're probably right about that.

Jeanne Meserve for us this morning.

Jeanne, thanks -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: More debate on Capitol Hill over that FBI raid on a congressman's office. The House Judiciary Committee holding a hearing today. The attorney general in the hot seat, among others. Lawmakers say that search of William Jefferson's office was unconstitutional. Jefferson, a Democrat representing New Orleans, the target of a bribery probe.

Sean Callebs live now from New Orleans with more -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

Really, the congressman has kept a very low profile the past few months. He has been sending out his regular newsletter that comes from Congress. That's not unusual. A lot of congressional members do it.

In it, it talks about everything he's doing for this area in the aftermath of Katrina. But that's not what people are talking about here. Not with the cloud of suspicion hanging over Jefferson's head.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS (voice over): William Jefferson is the most prominent African-American politician in Louisiana. He's also the target of a federal investigation into alleged bribery.

An FBI affidavit says $90,000 was found in the freezer of his D.C. apartment. Jefferson has denied wrongdoing, but won't talk about the allegations. But his constituents are more than willing to weigh in on the accusations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks pretty bad. Don't you think? I mean, money in the refrigerator? You know, that looks truly bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was disappointed, but I understand that these are just allegations. And until they've proven otherwise, I'll just accept them as an allegation.

CALLEBS: Jefferson lives in the uptown area of New Orleans. A neighbor and city worker who didn't want his identity revealed said he believes the congressman was trying to hide the cash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's a shame that he's doing something like this when the city's in shambles as it is. Yes, he should be doing more for the city than himself.

CALLEBS: Jefferson has been a trailblazer. The first black from Louisiana elected to Congress since reconstruction. He's a member of the powerful Ways and Means Committee, a great place to help New Orleans residents punished by Katrina.

After the search of his Capitol Hill office, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi asked Jefferson to resign the committee post. He says he won't.

Silas Lee is a New Orleans political consultant and isn't surprised Jefferson is digging his heels in.

SILAS LEE, POLITICAL ANALYST: Not really. William Jefferson is a fighter. And when you tell him that something is going to be very challenging, he will not run from it.

CALLEBS: Jefferson is up for re-election, and running for office under a cloud of suspicious won't be easy.

LEE: It's going to be a very tall political mountain for him to climb. However, voters still respect him, and they respect his level of accomplishments and what he delivers for constituents.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS: It could be a very tense several months heading up to the November election, if, indeed, Jefferson does proceed and run for re-election. Also, Miles, Silas Lee says don't be surprised if in the coming weeks the race card doesn't become key to this ongoing investigation, if not on Capitol Hill, then by people here in his predominantly African-American district -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Give us a sense, Sean, prior to this all happening, how much support did he have among his constituency?

CALLEBS: He is wildly popular down here, not only among his constituents, but also among the power brokers in this area. And we really saw that trying to put this story together. We called a number of leaders in civic and political areas, and a lot of people simply didn't want to talk about this story.

M. O'BRIEN: Sean Callebs in New Orleans.

Thank you very much.

Sean's story first aired on "THE SITUATION ROOM," which you can see weekdays, 4:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: How do you spell anxious? How do you spell nervous? How do you spell worried? Oh, yes, it's the spelling bee.

The Scripps National Spelling Bee gets under way. It got under way about an hour ago in Washington, D.C. It's being held at the Grand Hyatt.

About 275 children grades eight -- fourth through eighth, rather, are taking part. The written portion of the exam just wrapped up, so you can see that they're starting the oral portion of the spelling exam.

They whittled those 275 down to 90, and then they get to the finale. And for the first time ever, it's going to be broadcast live in primetime. Oh, there's some pressure for you, if these little kids weren't nervous already.

The winner is going to walk away with, of course, being the winner, and also $37,000 in cash and prizes.

M. O'BRIEN: Not bad.

S. O'BRIEN: That's not bad at all if you're in fourth grade. That's pretty darn good for a couple day's work.

M. O'BRIEN: Not -- yes, not B-A-D. I can do that one.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you know what the winning word was last year?

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sure it was hard. What?

S. O'BRIEN: Appoggiatura. What does it mean? Spell it, and what does it mean, Miles?

M. O'BRIEN: Well, you don't have to define it. You just have to spell it.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, that's true.

M. O'BRIEN: But either way, I'm 0 for 2. So it doesn't matter.

All right. Coming up, a jumbo-size dinosaur. Talk about -- spelling dinosaur names, that's a tough one. And spell paleontologist. That's P-A-L-E-O-N-T-O-L-O-G-I-S-T.

Studying one of the heaviest dinosaurs ever found. He'll tell us how it could teach us a few things about climate change. Stay with us on that.

S. O'BRIEN: Also ahead this morning, it's a marriage crunch. It you're a woman older than 40, could you really be out of luck when it comes to finding a soul mate? We'll take a look at that, look at the stats.

M. O'BRIEN: Willie Nelson is coming to visit in just a little bit. He has a guide to happiness. We'll ask him about his book, "The Tao of Willie."

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: We're getting word of a state of emergency in Iraq. Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, has just announced a month- long state of emergency in Basra because of increasing violence there. The prime minister has promised to crack down on gangs for threatening security in that oil-rich city.

The White House is promising that we will see details of exactly what happened in Haditha, when that investigation is finished. U.S. Marines suspected of a rampage where 24 Iraqi civilians were killed. Even when all the details are known, there will still be questions, clearly, about the motives behind the killing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Retired Brigadier General James "Spider" Marks joins us this morning.

Nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us, General Marks.

BRIG. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Good morning, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: No one in the military has said, listen, these reports are absolutely wrong, the media's wrong. So is it safe to assume that in fact what the witnesses are describing actually happened and what "TIME" magazine described is actually what happened? MARKS: Soledad, I think it's all very plausible. My only concern at this stage is that this is a story that probably has nothing but bad news involved in it. And so it's premature to get ahead of it. So I think we need to wait for the investigation to be released.

S. O'BRIEN: People say maybe these Marines snapped, but why would they -- I mean, you hear the stories from the eyewitnesses, these children. Why kill and shoot in the head little girls?

I actually in some ways can understand targeting grown men. I sometimes can understand targeting teenage boys, because they might be concerned they are, in fact, insurgents. But little 9 and 10-year-old girls and grandmothers?

MARKS: Soledad, the whole thing, frankly, stinks. And it's really -- it's unfortunate. But we all have to wait and see what the investigation reveals.

The Marines -- in fact, the Navy is leading the investigation to get to the very, very bottom of this thing. And the other face we need to keep in mind is, we don't know. You don't know and I don't know what was going through the minds of those Marines that were on the ground who had just lost a buddy. The context is very, very confusing.

There's a taxicab with four young men in it that kind of delay the advance of the convoy, if you read the preliminary reports and when you look at the "TIME" magazine article. So they suspect that there was an effort to slow down the convoy, make it stop where it did.

An IED goes off underneath the fourth Humvee, one of their dear buddies is killed. And that's what combat is all about, is trying to protect your buddies.

I mean, people sign up to protect the nation, but they fight to protect their buddies. It's very, very emotional, it's vitriolic. Hearts are racing, senses are on edge. And so you don't know what they're thinking.

S. O'BRIEN: Jack Murtha was talking to us yesterday. Here's what he had to say.

REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I understand the troops -- troops are doing a tremendous job, they carry 70 pounds of equipment, they're out there every day. An IED goes off, it kills somebody one day, the next day -- some of them have seem 25 and 30 of those go off and they haven't been wounded.

Like the reporter that was hit, she's been out there day after day and finally it gets to them. The pressure is tremendous. We don't have enough troops over there, and they don't know what they're mission is.

S. O'BRIEN: "We don't have enough troops over there," says Congressman Jack Murtha. "And they don't know what their mission is." He says that in addition to the pressures which you've described.

Do you agree with that?

MARKS: Well, I agree that we need have more troops in very specific areas. And we've said that, at least I've said that all along, that we went into Iraq with insufficient force. But, I mean, that's looking in hindsight.

So, clearly, you never -- a guy on the ground will tell you, "I never have enough." If I need one, I need three. Generally, that's a rule of thumb. So I would -- I would argue with you, there probably aren't enough forces on the ground, but those -- those commanders on the ground make that call.

Their voices will be heard. They'll come forward if they think they need more.

But the pressures, the aggregate pressures of the day-to-day combat situation, fighting an enemy that does not show his or her face, a cowardly way to fight. You lose your buddies. You can understand why these circumstances could occur.

But if there was criminal activity, it was aberrant, it does not define the military, as you and I know it, and the military that I grew up in. This is potentially exceptionally bad news, but we've got to get to the bottom of it.

S. O'BRIEN: How high do you think the cover-up, which is one sort of arm of the investigation, how high could that cover-up go? I mean, how high would they be target targeting? And also, how high would the responsibility go for this?

MARKS: Well, the buck stops at the very top. I mean, you know, the commander on the (INAUDIBLE) is ultimately responsible for everyone within his purview and within his command.

Again, it's premature to even describe it as a cover-up. Again, is it plausible? It seems like there could have been, but there's no way to determine at what level any activities on a cover-up were directed.

And that's the key point. That's the key point. You don't know -- you don't know who, at what level made those decisions. But what you do know is that discipline broke down in that individual unit that might occur -- that might have caused this to occur.

S. O'BRIEN: James "Spider" Marks, a U.S. brigadier general, retired now.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks, as always, for your time.

MARKS: Thanks, Soledad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: Coming up on the program, if you're a parent with a gun in the house, you need to stay tuned. We're going to have some tips on keeping your kid safer.

And next, we're going to introduce you to a big-boned beast with some thick skin. The discovery is changing the paleontology textbooks.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "JURASSIC PARK: THE LOST WORLD")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yikes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Well, a little bit of "Jurassic Park" there. I guess that's the next step for our next guest. He is currently the envy of the world of paleontology and just about every second grade boy I've ever known, too. He is now the proud owner of the largest, heaviest armored dinosaur ever found on the planet.

Dr. Reese Barrick, director and curator of the College of Eastern Utah Prehistoric Museum joining us now from Salt Lake City.

Dr. Barrick, good to have you with us.

Good to be with you this morning.

M. O'BRIEN: How big was it?

REESE BARRICK, DIRECTOR, CEU PREHISTORIC MUSEUM: Oh, this was a little bigger than a Humvee, at least.

M. O'BRIEN: Really? Ten thousand pounds, and plenty of armor all around. And we're taking a look at some of the pictures of the bones as it compares to another dinosaur.

Why don't you explain what we're seeing.

BARRICK: Well, this is a large armored dinosaur, and they come in a number of different sizes. Most of them are pretty small to medium sized. And we've got -- I'm trying to see what we're looking at here.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, that's all right.

BARRICK: There we go.

M. O'BRIEN: I tell you what, why don't you show me some of the bones you brought. And we can talk about the size of this thing.

BARRICK: Absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: Show me what you've got with you.

BARRICK: Well, we've got a lot of cool bones. And this dinosaur sort of has everything that you'd want to find in a dinosaur.

We've got some of the armored plates that are fused together. And there's a whole bunch of plates. And that sort of helps us tell us what kind of an armored dinosaur we have.

M. O'BRIEN: Right.

BARRICK: We have a large rib bone that gives you a little bit of evidence of the size.

M. O'BRIEN: That's one rib.

BARRICK: And that's one single rib. And in the middle, it's got a big round area where it was actually broken while it was alive.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, really?

BARRICK: And so you can tell that it had a rough life. It actually -- something was able to break its rib and it started healing while it was still alive.

M. O'BRIEN: So, the ribs would not have been protected by the armor, then? Would they have been in the soft underbelly?

BARRICK: So the ribs were not completely protected by the armor.

M. O'BRIEN: Interesting.

BARRICK: And we've even got some large armored plates here. And after it died, you can even see a bunch of pits where it had some insect damage that were munching on the armor after the animal died.

M. O'BRIEN: Wow.

BARRICK: So it gives you a little bit about life and death.

M. O'BRIEN: So, a 10,000-pound creature that's armored, I'm going to guess that's not a very fast creature. How did this creature survive, fend off predators of any kind?

BARRICK: Well, it's kind of an interesting thing, because, like you said, they're very large. So they're not hiding from anybody.

They're round tanks, and they're really heavy, so they're not very fast. So they're not running away from anybody. So the only thing that sort of nature gave them to survive against some of the really nastiest predators on the planet was a lot of armor.

M. O'BRIEN: Wow. Interesting.

So, this particular one -- and this is usually the case when you find good fossils -- somehow died in a swampy area and there was sedimentary layers, and it was thus preserved, correct?

BARRICK: Yes. In order to preserve fossils you have to have an area that provides some sediment in the rivers to bury the fossils, and you've got to have a place where you can actually collect all that sediment.

M. O'BRIEN: Wow. So this -- this must have been quite a find, this must have been quite a buzz in your circles?

BARRICK: Well, it's always -- it's always fun. Utah's a really hotbed for fossils, and there's probably a new species of dinosaur found in Utah just about every year.

M. O'BRIEN: Do you think it's a new species for sure yet, or can you not say yet?

BARRICK: Well, we have probably got a pretty good idea, but we'll have a little more work to do on that.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Now, who gets to name the species, if, in fact, it is one?

BARRICK: Well, there will be a couple of people, and whoever gets -- whoever describes the dinosaur for the public gets the opportunity to name it. So there will be a couple of people, including Dr. James Kirkland, who is sort of an armored dinosaur expert that was involved in finding this site, will be a part of the team.

M. O'BRIEN: Do you mind if we submit our suggestions?

BARRICK: We're always looking for good suggestions.

M. O'BRIEN: Here we go. Let's put them on the screen. All right.

We have Humongosaurus. That was mine. Bigasaurus.

S. O'BRIEN: That's mine.

M. O'BRIEN: That's yours. Actually, you had a different pronunciation, though. We'll let people figure that out.

Monstasaurus, Tankasaurus, Extinctasaurus. I like this one, Dinomighty. And then inexplicably -- we don't know who in the staff did this one -- Henry.

BARRICK: Henry. I like Henry.

M. O'BRIEN: Henry. Oh, he likes Henry.

All right. Well, there you go. Those are our first sigs. You keep us posted. And congratulations on the big find. Quite literally, big find.

BARRICK: Thank you very much. Absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: Dr. Reese Barrick is director of the Prehistoric Museum of College -- at the College of Eastern Utah.

Back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Alarming new study to tell you about. It's about kids and guns. And it shows that many parents don't have a clue about what the kids are doing with the parents' weapons at home.

Dr. Matthew Miller is associate director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. He's also a co-author of the study. He's in Boston this morning.

Nice to see you, Dr. Miller. Thanks for talking with us.

DR. MATTHEW MILLER, CO-AUTHOR, HARVARD GUN STUDY: Thanks for your interest in the paper.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, I appreciate it. Three-hundred fourteen homes were looked at. You were looking at children specifically between the ages of five and 14. Why did want to do this study in the first place?

MATTHEW MILLER, COAUTHOR, HARVARD GUN STUDY: Well, there have been previous studies that show a disconnect between what parents believe about their children's behavior around a number of issues, including firearms, and what children actually do when they're observed.

S. O'BRIEN: So the results weren't necessarily about, are guns good, or are guns bad? It was more revealing about parents, and do they know what their kids are doing when they're not necessarily around? Did most of the kids know where the parents kept their guns, for example?

MILLER: Most of the kids, more than three quarters of the kids knew where they're parents kept their guns, and half of the boys had handled the gun in their parents' home. More shocking than those numbers was the disconnect between what parents recorded and the contradictory reports of their very own children. For example...

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, this was the scary part. I thought the results -- let's throw up, in fact, the graphic that we've made from your study. Kids and guns , when it comes to parents think, 39 percent of parents said, yes, my child knows, yes, my child knows where the gun is; 22 percent said, yes, that child has handled the gun. Here's what the kids reported, 73 to 79 percent to 79 percent, depending on age said, I know where the gun is. That's way higher than the number of parents thought. And 36 percent said, hey, I've handled that gun. Significantly higher than what the parents thought.

There's a large percentage of kids who've touched that gun without mom and dad knowing.

MILLER: That's right. And in addition, of parents who said, no, there's no way that my kid has ever handled a gun in my home, more than one in five children of those parents said, oh, yes, I've played with a gun in my home. S. O'BRIEN: Did it make a difference, age wise? Did you find that, while parents had more control over what they're younger kids were doing, but when the kids got a little bit older, in the 13, 14 range, those are kids who tend to be, for lack of a better word, a little sneakier about what they were doing?

MILLER: Well, surprisingly, no, it didn't make a difference. A 5 or 6-year-old was as likely to contradict his parents' report as a 14-year-old was. And another aspect of the study was that talking to your kids, merely talking to your kids, about gun safety had absolutely no affect on the likelihood that they would handle a gun in your loam, or that you would be contradicted by their reports, that you would be wrong about their behavior, yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Really?

MILLER: Yes, because I would have thought parents who sit down and say, listen, I teach my child how to responsibly, how I as a parent deal with this weapon responsibly, I lock up this weapon, I would think that they would have a better sense, you know, they'd be sort of more on top of what their kids are doing?

MILLER: Well, yes. There have been numerous reports that show that education alone just doesn't work. Kids are able to respond verbally to cues about what they should do around guns. But when it comes to their actual behavior, kids are going to be kids, and it shouldn't be...

S. O'BRIEN: When you say verbally, you mean they know the right answer, they know answer mom and dad want to hear, I wouldn't touch that gun, never, but what they actually do is contradictory?

MILLER: Exactly.

S. O'BRIEN: What's the take-away? I mean, is the take-away, listen, you can't hide your gun and you can't keep your kid from touching your gun, even if you lock it up? Is that the take-away?

MILLER: The take-away is, if you really want to protect your children, you have to recognize that kids are going to be kids, that they're curious, that they're impulsive, that they're cognitively unable to govern their impulses, and to protect them, you should get rid of the gun, at best; and if you feel that you need have a gun in your home, lock it away in a safe, where there's only one key, and that key is always on your person as the adult. Make it absolutely impossible for a child to get to a gun in your home.

S. O'BRIEN: Dr. Matthew Miller -- I'm sorry. Go ahead, Dr. Miller.

MILLER: I was just going to say, I Googled some stories today before I came here, because this is the kind of tragedy that occurs every two or three days in the U.S. And just this morning in "The Picayune Daily," a 3-year-old in New Orleans shot himself in the forehead and killed himself with his father's gun that was hidden under the bed. This happened just after his father had bathed him, and his 5-year-old brother was getting a bath.

S. O'BRIEN: Cognitively unable to control is how the doctors put it. But of course what you're saying is, they're three, they're five they're 15. They're kids. They're going to do what kids do.

Dr. Matthew Miller, we're out of time, so we've got to wrap it up here. Fascinating, fascinating study as a co-author of the Harvard Gun Study. Thanks for talking with us.

MILLER: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Got a short break. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

S. O'BRIEN: Willie Nelson has lived a life full of good times and hard knocks, too. He's now in his 70s, and the country music legend is sharing some of the lessons he's learned from all the years on the road. He's got a new book out. It's called "The Tao of Willie: A Guide to the Happiness in Your Heart." Willie Nelson is with us this morning. Nice to see you.

WILLIE WELSON, MUSICIAN: Thank you. Good to see you.

S. O'BRIEN: Thank you. Did you plan on putting it all in a book? Why the book?

NELSON: Oh, I had no idea that, you know, I would ever come up with a book like that. But some -- they came to me, Turk Pitkin (ph) and said, you know, some folks would like for to you do a book all about the tao of Willie. So I had to do a little research on what all of that meant. So I found out that it could be dao, it can be tao. I looked at it, I thought it was the toe of Willie for a while.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about some of the basic advice. I mean, you have, you know, page 39, drink a lot of water.

NELSON: Yes, that's easy.

S. O'BRIEN: Some very straightforward. And then some advice that's maybe a little deeper. Tell me about how you got through some of the tough times. I think, you know, besides being well known for your music, you're known for some of the tough times that you've managed to turn around.

NELSON: Well, I think it's important to find a positive, to look, you know, for the light at the end of the tunnel, and to live a lot in the now, where you are right now. If everything is fine right now, then keep that going. And don't worry about that it wasn't fine a while ago, or yesterday. But if everything is real good right now, figure out a way to keep it that way. S. O'BRIEN: How did you get to self-knowledge? Seventy-two years later, how do you think you got to all the advice that you've put in your book?

NELSON: Well, I'm a real hard-headed person, you know? They say Tauruses are just normally hard-headed, but I think I'm a little more than normal. So it took me a long time to learn a lot of things. My grandmother used to tell me that a hard head make as sore rear-end. So I think she was right about that.

S. O'BRIEN: That probably was true. I got ask to you, before we run out of time, a little bit about BioWillie Diesel. You must be following this debate, of course, that's going on not only in Congress, but in the nation. You know, the dependence on foreign oil is huge. It's clearly a problem. The crisis word is being used. You've put your focus on -- on a diesel fuel that comes from vegetables or a renewable source. Do you think the nation is ever going to kind of follow what you're doing? You're sort of out there...

NELSON: Sure. I think everyone is interested in looking for an alternative, because naturally, the -- you know, not only is oil not that great for the environment and health reasons, et cetera, but it's getting so expensive, gasoline is so high, that we had to look for other things. We've had ethanol, we've had bio-diesel all along. We've only been able to use it, but we were sort of prohibited from using it for a long time, so now necessity brings us back into having to use it. The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. So this is not anything new.

S. O'BRIEN: It's like the political will, as they like to say in Washington, wasn't quite there.

NELSON: It's time to bring it out now.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think it's there now? Do you think, in fact...

NELSON: Yes, it is, because too many people are talking about it. There's too many bio-diesel plants, ethanol plants being built, being planned. A lot truck shops are handling it now. And I did a radio show every week, talk to a lot of the truckers, and they are really hot on it. They're talking it up out there. Necessity will make it happen.

S. O'BRIEN: Willie Nelson. Your book is called "The Dao" -- or the tao? You say you can say it either way, right?

NELSON: Whichever.

S. O'BRIEN: "Of Willie: A Guide to the Happiness in Your Heart." This is such a lovely book. It's so nice. Thank you very much for coming into to talk to us about it.

NELSON: Nice to see you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Certainly appreciate it. Thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: You know, you're more than likely to be killed by a terrorist than get married after 40. Well, that was the takeaway quote from the famous, or shall we say infamous, "Newsweek" story a generation ago. It was a stunner for single women everywhere. And now, 20 years later, the magazine changing its tune, but it's different times, after all.

AMERICAN MORNING's Alina Cho is here with more on all this. Hello, Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Changing times is absolutely right. But at the time, Miles, you know, it was, in a sense, the shot heard around the world. "Newsweek" magazine, citing a Harvard and Yale study, said a single woman, age 30, had only a 20 percent chance getting married. By 35, the chances dropped to 5 percent. Those numbers sent a whole generation of women into a tailspin.

That was then. 20 years later, we tracked down two of the women interviewed for the original article, and you may be surprised at what we found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHO (voice-over): The year was 1986. "Top Gun" was the most popular movie; "Higher Love," record of the year. And this headline captured the attention of women all over the country. College educated women who failed to marry in their 20s had only a slim chance of ever tying the knot. The article's most infamous line has even appeared in movies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know it's easier to be killed by a terrorist than it is to get married over the age of 40?

MEG RYAN, ACTRESS: That is not true. That statistic is not true.

ROSIE O'DONNELL, ACTRESS: That's right. It's not true. But it feels true.

CHO: Sally Jackson was 39 when "Newsweek" first interviewed her.

SALLY JACKSON, HAPPILY MARRIED: Because I was in the story, a lot of women came to me and acted as if I were the author of the study and they said, oh, how can this be, how can this be? And I said, it probably isn't accurate.

CHO: Unlike many other women, Jackson wasn't worried. She wasn't anxious to have kids. She had a successful P.R. business and plenty of friends, including Paul Nase (ph), a man she met on a blind date.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was quite taken, and she was not.

JACKSON: Not my type.

CHO: The two were married in 1994. She was 47. She's now 59 and married for 12 years.

JACKSON: It's great, but it's great at the right time with the right person. The institution in itself isn't great. A relationship is great. And I would never compromise on a great relationship.

CHO: The latest research shows 90 percent of baby boomers will eventually walk down the aisle, a far cry from the 1986 statistic which stated a single woman of 35 had just a 5 percent chance of getting married.

But not everyone wants to be a wife. Nancy Rigg is 56 and happily single.

NANCY RIGG, HAPPILY SINGLE: My life has been fulfilled without children. My life has been fulfilled without a husband.

CHO: Rigg was 29 when she lost her fiance in a flash flood. She has dedicated her life to water rescue programs, spends a lot of time with her dog and rarely thinks about the benefits of marriage, except recently, when she moved into her new house.

RIGG: It's times like that, I mean, very practical times that you think, oh, my goodness, I really could use a couple of strapping young sons to come and help, not to mention a husband with a good back.

CHO: Sally Jackson and Paul Nase say finding love later in life can be a blessing.

JACKSON: People who wish away their lives because they're not married are cheating themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, don't worry about it. It will either happen or it won't, and there really isn't a whole lot you can do about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: Some good advice. Now, as for that line, a 40-year-old single woman is more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to ever marry, well, "Newsweek" now says that line was never meant to be a serious statement. It was first written as a joke in an internal memo and somehow made its way into the article. Were it not for that line, this article probably would not have been as popular as it was. The writer now calls it "the most irresponsible line in the history of journalism, all meant in jest." So it was a joke.

M. O'BRIEN: Oops! A little bit of a retraction, 20 years later. We didn't mean it. It did resonate, didn't it?

CHO: It certainly did. It certainly did. And remember, times are -- have changed since 1986. You know, women are delaying marriage for a variety of reason. There's fertility treatments. So women don't feel their biological clock ticking as much. Single motherhood is more popular, as you know, Miles. And it's become more accepted. There's online dating, of course. And so many women are going to college that that no longer is a roadblock. So times are a-changing.

M. O'BRIEN: So the new 20 is 40, or even 50?

CHO: That's right, in some cases.

M. O'BRIEN: Alina Cho, thanks for dropping by.

Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business," and he has a preview for us -- Andy.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Miles, we're talking cold treats here. The slush puppy has a new owner. Plus, an ice cream legend passes on, the man who founded Mr. Softee. We'll talk about that coming up.

You can still get it, though. I got some last night. Yes. Love it, too.

S. O'BRIEN: We'll be back. Andy, thanks.

Also ahead this morning, are you ready for hurricane season? We've got five tips on insuring your home. That's just ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: So breaking news to get to this morning. There is word that the U.S. may take parts in talks with Iran over its nuclear program.

Let's get right to White House correspondent Ed Henry, joining us with breaking news.

Hey, Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

That's right, senior officials here confirming that the U.S. is now ready and willing to join multilateral talks with Iran to discuss their nuclear ambitions. We're being told that at 11:00 a.m., U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will officially make the announcement in a speech that for the first time we will join multilateral talks with Iran.

But the key is that the U.S. will only do this with the condition that Russia and China pledge they will press sanctions against Iran if Iran ends up not following through and continues tots defy the international community.

Now this would mean they're still working out the details, still in a draft stage. It would either mean the U.S. sitting down for multilateral talks with the four other permanent members of the U.N. Security Council,Russia, France, China and Britain, plus Germany, or it would be the U.S. sitting down with the European Union three, France, Germany and Great Britain. Significant, of course, because U.S. has not had talks with Iran really since 1979, dating back to the hostage crisis. Iranian officials have been saying that they would only get into negotiations without any conditions. But what we're being told, without getting into any details, White House Press Secretary Tony Snow a few moments ago saying that President Bush was on the phone yesterday with Russian President Putin. He was also on the phone with the leaders of Germany and France as well, and Tony Snow says the president got them to sign off on this new approach from the United States.

Again, we're waiting for more details from Secretary Rice at 11:00 a.m. But Tony Snow also confirming that after this speech, Secretary Rice will then head to Vienna, where the permanent five members of the United Nations will in fact be meeting on Thursday. So you can see a lot this going into motion very quickly -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, the sanctions part is clearly the most important part, because if you don't have the support on the sanctions end, then what the U.S. is asking for, which, I mean, consistently has been, what the U.S. has wanted, has no chance at all of succeeding, clearly. I mean, Ahmadinejad has -- not only does he say and talk about the nation's nuclear ambitions, I mean, he brags about the nation's nuclear ambitions practically every single day.

HENRY: You're right, absolutely. And that's why U.S. officials express that the stick there is absolutely essentially right. It's key to get Russia and China on board, to drop their opposition to sanctions against Iran. That is critical. You know, as you've been noting, Iran has been boasting about its nuclear ambitions and what they've perceived to be some early successes in that program, and they've been saying they want to sit down, but the U.S. has really not been believing them. They want to make sure that there is going to be a stick here at well, that it's not just sitting down for multilateral talks, but in fact there will be sanctions if Iran does not follow through -- Soledad.

Ed Henry for us this morning with some breaking news.

Ed, thanks. Appreciate it. Obviously we're going to follow that story throughout the day.

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

M. O'BRIEN: That's all the time for this AMERICAN MORNING. Let's get right to CNN Center and Daryn Kagan.

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