Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Allegations in Iraq; Incentives to Talk?; Iraq Briefing

Aired June 02, 2006 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Allegations of murder in Iraq. Charges could soon come in another case involving U.S. Marines.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Should New York City feel slighted by...

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. The nuclear standoff is at a standstill. The big question, of course, what will Iran do next? I'll have that in a few minutes.

M. O'BRIEN: Sorry, Suzanne.

Should New York City feel slighted by a smaller anti-terrorism budget? We'll talk to the city's police commissioner about what less money really means.

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger gives in. He'll fall in line with the president and send National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexico border.

S. O'BRIEN: And a "Breakup" actually starts a romance. A look at the new movie that stars the couple that have a catchy nickname like Brangelina -- Vince Vaughn and Jen Aniston.

Those stories and much more ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.

Good morning. Welcome, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien.

M. O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us.

Some new developments this morning to tell you about. U.S. troops in Iraq, more investigations under way. Murder charges could soon be filed against several Marines in the shooting death of an Iraqi civilian. This one occurred April 26th, west of Baghdad, near the town of Hamandiyah. This is independent of investigations into the November deaths of two dozen Iraqis allegedly killed by Marines in Haditha.

And there's a new report out this morning concerning a third incident. This one in Ishaqi, the killing of 11 Iraqis in March, also blamed on U.S. troops.

Three reports for you this morning -- John Vause in Baghdad, Sumi Das outside Camp Pendleton in California, and Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Let's begin with John.

John Good morning.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

Iraqi police tell CNN that U.S. forces shot and killed five children, four women and two men from the small village of Abu Seffa in the town of Ishaqi on March 15. Iraqi police say witnesses told them that U.S. forces gathered all of the -- all of the members of the one family, 11 members, into a single room inside this house. They were kept there for about an hour, and then they were shot dead. Iraqi police also claim inside the house they found bullet casings which they say are only used by the U.S. military.

Now, at the time of this incident, U.S. authorities say they had received tip-off about a suspected al Qaeda operative inside the home. As U.S. forces moved in, there was a firefight, an air strike was called in, the house was destroyed. The end result, four people were killed, including three civilians. That from the U.S. military back in March.

What we do not have here, unlike Haditha, there is no alleged motive as to why U.S. forces may have shot and killed 11 Iraqi civilians -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: John Vause in Baghdad.

Let's turn our attention now to Camp Pendleton, where seven Marines and one sailor are now being held. There's the possibility of murder charges in this case. This is an incident that occurred in Hamandiyah.

Sumi, tell us what you know.

SUMI DAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that incident resulted in the death of one Iraqi civilian. Marines from the 3rd Battalion and 5th Regiment are involved. And according to a source close to the investigation, who is familiar with the investigation, that person has told CNN that military prosecutors will likely face -- excuse me, file murder charges against several Marines accused of shooting this one Iraqi civilian.

Now, according to The Associated Press, the defense attorney for one of the Marines, Jeremiah Sullivan, says the charges may also include conspiracy and kidnapping. They may come down today, but our source tells us that it's not likely to happen that soon.

Now, we are not hearing all that much from the folks here at Camp Pendleton, and that's because this investigation is not yet complete. According to Lieutenant Lawton King (ph), the investigation is still ongoing and no charges have been preferred. He has also told us that several Marines have been placed in pretrial confinement and several have been placed on pretrial base restriction -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Sum Das at Camp Pendleton near San Diego. Thank you very much.

Let's get to the Pentagon now and Kathleen Koch in Haditha.

Really two investigations under way on this one, what happened in Haditha, two dozen civilians were shot and killed by Marines, and now what happened afterward as the chain of command became aware of what happened -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that's the investigation, Miles, right now that's being conducted by Army Major General Eldon Bargewell. And sources familiar with that investigation tell CNN that it will conclude that the Marines involved in that initial incident gave false reports to their superiors, those superiors then allegedly did not carefully scrutinize the information.

CNN Pentagon sources also tell us that when it comes to -- another problem that they found was that the Marines who arrived afterwards, uninvolved in the initial incident, that they came to document the incident, to remove the bodies, and in some cases even photograph the bodies. They never disputed the original claims by the Marines that everyone was killed by a roadside bomb blast.

Now, "The Washington Post" is reporting some new developments in the criminal investigation. Those investigators will soon be requesting permission to exhume some of the bodies of the 24 Iraqi civilians to collect forensic evidence, like the distance from which they were shot, the angle of the shots, the caliber of the bullets. It could give some very important clues as to just what happened, who is responsible.

But then there is -- this is also, though, going to be very much complicated by the delay, the fact that this incident occurred November 19th and the investigation didn't begin, Miles, until almost four months later.

M. O'BRIEN: Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon.

Thank you very much.

KOCH: You bet.

M. O'BRIEN: And thank you to Sumi and John as well -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about Iran now. And you can call it a blueprint for resuming nuclear talks with Iran, in fact. The U.S. and five other world powers have agreed on a set of incentives intended to persuade Iran to not enrich uranium.

Suzanne Malveaux is at the White House with reaction here in the U.S.

Hey, Suzanne. Good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. Senior administration officials are pleased that this is now in Iran's hands. Essentially, it has to give up its nuclear ambitions or faces possible U.N. Security Council sanctions.

Now, why are they so confident and optimistic this morning? A senior administration official tells CNN that they are satisfied the two permanent members of the U.N. Security Council that had been so reluctant about sanctions, Russia and China, they now say are on board with this program.

So now what happens? You've got the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, plus Germany, all heading back from their conference in Vienna with this package of carrots and sticks. Now they wait for Iran's response.

S. O'BRIEN: What's the timeline look like, Suzanne? You know, Condoleezza Rice is not one who has given much to timelines, but they have to sort of make a decision if they're going to wait a year, six months, a week.

MALVEAUX: Well, it's a very delicate balancing act here. Secretary Rice was actually interviewed by our own David Ensor on the way back to the United States, and she said, look, we're not talking about months, we're talking about weeks here. That this is something that they want to take care of relatively quickly.

At the same time, they don't want to push Iran too quickly because it is prone to bluster. So they say this is a serious offer on the table, they'll give them weeks to decide.

S. O'BRIEN: Towing (ph) around every which way, aren't they?

Suzanne Malveaux is at the White House for us this morning.

Suzanne, thanks.

First lady Laura Bush is at the U.N. this morning. You can see her live there opening the -- there she is in that picture right there, opening the final session of a three-day international conference on AIDS.

They're supposed to come up with an agreement today. The process, though, no real surprise, has been rocky.

Let's get right to CNN's Richard Roth. He's live at the U.N. for us this morning.

Hey, Richard.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Laura Bush is speaking currently right now to the United Nations General Assembly, and she said AIDS respects no boundaries in the world, no country is safe, no people, no citizenry.

This is a very controversial conference. This is an AIDS conference that is supposed to review goals, many lofty goals set five years ago by the United Nations by member countries. Targets to establish levels for cutting the rate and prevalence of AIDS in many countries.

Here at the United Nations there's been a lot of controversy between different sides. The U.S. pushing abstinence as the best way to avoid this disease. Other countries in the Islamic world also very concerned that a proposed draft resolution includes controversial phrases that might include "prostitutes," "gay men," and words like that. At the United Nations U.S. mission a couple of days ago, there was a protest that resulted in the arrest of more than 20 people, of people protesting against the United States.

Here also at the conference, activists say the United States has not done enough in setting up clear targets to cut AIDS in the future -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Richard Roth at the U.N. for us this morning.

Richard, thanks -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Just coming in to us now from Baghdad, Major General Donald Campbell with the United States military is offering a briefing now on that core values warrior training that is being ordered and being given to all troops in Iraq.

Let's listen for a moment.

BRIG. GEN. DONALD CAMPBELL, MULTINATIONAL CORPS, IRAQ: But we estimate it will take about two to four hours to get that training completed.

As far as soldiers and how they feel, obviously when you have 99.9 percent of the soldiers are sailors, airmen and Marines doing absolutely the right work in theater and doing the right thing, you feel you're upset, you're frustrated. But this is a part of something that you look at yourselves on a continual basis in the military and any profession that really takes itself and wants to look better at it. So we look at it as an opportunity to continue to get closer to that 100 percent goal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead, Jon.

JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS: Yes, Jonathan Karl with ABC News.

So does the fact that this core values training is happening now represent an acknowledgement that something that should have been done before was not done?

CAMPBELL: Well, it represents the fact that General Chiarelli did an assessment in the field, talked to his commanders, talked to troops, and determined that this was a tremendous course of action, or a course of action that he wanted to go. I don't think you should focus in on any specific incident or incidents.

He assessed where he is in the field, he assessed where he is in theater, and five months into theater, and made the determination that based on what he was seeing and where he wanted to go, this was necessary. But let me just add that, once again, it's only necessary in that we've got to make sure that soldiers understand what is right and what is wrong. And 99.9 percent of them do it correctly every day in the field here in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will.

WILL DUNHAM, REUTERS: This is Will Dunham with Reuters.

What -- what is causing these small number of incidents of misconduct that you're seeing by the troops? Is it the stress of the situation? Is it -- actually, I'm asking you, what is causing it?

CAMPBELL: Well, I'd say it's difficult to pin down specifically, but obviously when you're in a combat theater dealing with enemy combatants who don't abide by the law of war, who do acts of indecency, soldiers become stressed. They become fearful. It's very difficult to determine in some cases on this battlefield who is a combatant and who is a civilian.

It doesn't excuse the acts that have occurred, and we're going to look into them, but I would say it's stress, fear, isolation, and in some cases they're just upset. They see their buddies getting blown up on occasion, and they -- they could snap. But let me just say that 99.9 percent of the soldiers in the field are doing tremendous work every day, and we're very, very proud of them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go over here to Joe (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General, this is Joe Talbot (ph) with (INAUDIBLE) Television.

My question is, how much do you think incidents such as Haditha or Hamandiyah or today Ishaqi are hurting the morale or are hurting your reputation among the Iraqi society?

CAMPBELL: Well, let me just say that the forces here in theater have tremendous morale and they take these allegations very seriously, I would say, from General Chiarelli, all the way down to the soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines on the field. And it is disturbing, as I said earlier. It is frustrating.

But I think if you point to all of the good that is occurring in Iraq, the fact that we have a new government and it is moving positively forward, and their security forces are doing absolutely superb, I would tell you that when our soldiers look at that their morale remains very high and they continue to do the right thing day in and day out.

M. O'BRIEN: That's Brigadier General Donald Campbell on a teleconference with reporters at the Pentagon coming out of Baghdad, talking about this core values training that's been ordered to go up and down the lines for all troops, all soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, stationed in and around that theater, as he put it, to make sure they know right from wrong. As he also put it repeatedly, 99.9 percent of those personnel there, that U.S. military contingent there, are doing their job admirably.

S. O'BRIEN: We're going to obviously continue to monitor that briefing and bring you any other news that come out of that briefing as the questions continue.

Still to come this morning, a huge health scare in one city. Thousands of veterans potentially exposed to deadly viruses like HIV. We'll explain exactly what happened just ahead.

M. O'BRIEN: Also, more than a hundred people dying each day waiting for organs, but there may be new hope thanks to so-called living donors. We'll look at that.

S. O'BRIEN: And up next, the government slashes New York City's anti-terror funding by more than 80 million bucks. Does that mean our city's less safe? We're going to check in with the New York City police commissioner just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: People in the Big Apple crying foul this morning. Officials here want a bigger bite of the homeland security pie, the money to guard against terrorism. Instead, they got less.

The city is getting $124 million. When you compare that to last year, which was $207 million, it's a lot less. Does the cutback now make the city less safe?

Joining us this morning, New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.

Nice to see you.

RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks for talking with us.

Big surprise to you? Big shock?

KELLY: Yes, it was a surprise, because we were told that there was a shift to a risk-based analysis, and we thought that any reasonable examination of New York City's situation would mean that we would get more resources, certainly not less.

S. O'BRIEN: There was a sense -- and we've heard Bob Franken talking about it this morning -- well, we don't have landmarks, I think, was the way it was put.

KELLY: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: When you heard that, what was your reaction?

KELLY: Well, it's unfortunate. Obviously, that's -- that's a mistake. Of course, we probably have more landmarks than any other city in America.

We have the Brooklyn Bridge. There was a plot against the Brooklyn Bridge in 2003 to take it down. We have the stock exchange, we have the Statue of Liberty, we have the Empire State Building.

So we have a lot of iconic structures. But we're a city that's been attacked twice. We have had four plots against the city since 9/11 that have been thwarted.

Last week we had an individual convicted in federal court for plotting to blow up the subway station at Herald Square. There are 10 million commuters to work in the United States using mass transit. We have seven million of them here in New York City.

S. O'BRIEN: It's kind of a long list you're giving me here of all of the reasons why.

KELLY: Yes. New York is different. We don't begrudge any other city from getting what they get, but we just think the system that was used was flawed and that we need more, certainly not less.

S. O'BRIEN: Listen to what Michael Chertoff, the Department of Homeland Security secretary, had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: They got a lot of the money up front for early investment, for purposes of building security. It's like any other investment, whether you're building your house or you're investing in security. You'd expect once you get that basic funding in there and you build that basic security level, you're not going to have to continue to rebuild from the beginning year after year after year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: So that's part of his argument. You don't have to keep building it.

KELLY: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: I mean, we gave you a big chunk up front...

KELLY: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: ... and now that should be your infrastructure, and now you just need little bits after that. Homeland Security would also argue that the pie has sort of shrunk, and actually that New York is getting a nice healthy piece still. It might be less money, but it's still about the same percentage.

KELLY: Yes. Yes. Well, the secretary, who I think is doing a good job -- and it's a tough job -- but he's focused on hardware. We need sustained costs. Personnel costs, for instance.

A very expensive proposition, no question about it, to protect New York. But...

S. O'BRIEN: So what are we not going get now that we're $84 million shorter than we thought we were going to be?

KELLY: Well, for one thing, we had a lower Manhattan security initiative. We were looking to protect the financial center, really the financial center of the world, the new Freedom Tower that's going to be constructed, the Goldman Sachs tower that's going to be constructed, the New York Stock Exchange, American Stock Exchange. We're going to put something similar to the ring of steel that exists in London to better protect that area.

S. O'BRIEN: So there's no money for that now?

KELLY: There's no money for that now. But, you know, the mayor is certainly committed to seeing to it that we have the resources to do everything we can to protect the city.

We're going to be doing a lot of the things that we've been doing, and it will come out of other parts of the budget, unfortunately. It's going to hit us here. It's going to hit the taxpayers here in New York.

And I think that the point is that we're protecting national resources here, you know. And what is the effect of having an attack in New York throughout the nation and throughout the world? No question about it, the terrorists want to come here. Homeland Security says we're number one on the terrorist target list, yet we get a 40 percent reduction.

It's simply illogical. It doesn't make sense.

S. O'BRIEN: You sound angry to me. You look calm, but you sound angry.

KELLY: No.

S. O'BRIEN: I mean, you sound angry at Homeland Security. You sound...

KELLY: No. This is a business, and, you know, these things happen in business. We're hopeful -- I think Representative -- Congressman Peter King is going to have hearings. I think we're going to get to the bottom of the process.

They subcontracted out the decision-making process, apparently, on homeland security. Again, apparently we don't know that much about the process. Didn't use intelligence experts, didn't use security experts. Used something called the pay (ph) review process. We don't know what that is.

S. O'BRIEN: You want to know the process, or you just want the money?

KELLY: Oh, we'll take the money. But again, I think it's important to put attention on the process. S. O'BRIEN: Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for coming in to talk with us.

KELLY: Good to be with you. Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: We appreciate it.

A short break. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: It is Friday, and a payday, no less. So that is cause for great joy around here. But now a segment come which is the cherry on top of the sundae for us here, our weekly visit with our CNN contributor Bill Bennett, just off the air in Alexandria, Virginia. His radio show is called "Bill Bennett's Morning in America," hearkening back to the Reagan days.

And it's good to have you with us, Bill.

WILLIAM BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you. Thank you. I've been called a lot of things. That's a first, the cherry on the sundae.

M. O'BRIEN: The cherry on top of the sundae. You can put that on your resume now.

BENNETT: I'll take it. I'll take it.

M. O'BRIEN: You were talking about education today. We've been talking about other things in the news.

BENNETT: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Tell us what your listeners are concerned about as it relates to education.

BENNETT: We had a big report out of the Department of Education yesterday, education statistics. Two interesting things in it, Miles.

One, our kids, our young kids continue to do pretty well in science and reading, not so well in math. But quite well internationally in science and reading. But as they move into the eighth grade, things slow down. As they get into the 12th grade, it slows down even more. So, the longer you stay in school in America, the dumber you get relative to kids in other countries.

So the good news here is that it's not in the water, it's not in our kids, you know, because if it were, we wouldn't be able to do it right early. But we somehow lose their interest, or our teaching fails, or something, because we don't keep our consistence here, our momentum in math or science.

This, by the way, bears on the immigration debate, as you know.

M. O'BRIEN: Sure.

BENNETT: That's one of the questions about legal immigration, is how many people with math, science backgrounds and specific kind of talents do we need to take in every year? So it's a very interesting question.

The second one...

M. O'BRIEN: Why do we -- why do we lose these kids? Because when you talk to the younger kids, as you say, there's that terrible middle school time frame sixth, seventh, eighth grade, where we lose them, somehow, particularly girls. What happens along the way there?

BENNETT: Well, the girl part is interesting. Let me get to that in a second. But we lose for a couple of reasons, it seems to me.

We don't have enough competent math teachers and science teachers in the elementary and middle school grades. And there have been too many obstacles to people who know math and science from coming in -- certification and the like. We need to open up classrooms to more people who have that kind of ability and that kind of competence.

The other thing is, it's harder. You know, math and science are harder. You've got to front load it. I don't know about you, but, you know, I knew a lot of guys in college, I was one of them, I had my math and physics, but, you know, I left math and physics for poetry and philosophy.

M. O'BRIEN: No, no, I ran for the exits as soon as I could. And so I -- it happens.

BENNETT: Well, people -- people tend to go that way rather than saying, you know, this philosophy and poetry is too easy. I want some more calculus and math.

M. O'BRIEN: Right.

BENNETT: So you've got to front load. You've got to put more -- like more of the spinach up front in order to have the kids persevere. But the other thing...

M. O'BRIEN: So what you're saying is, we're a bunch of slackers, is what we're saying.

BENNETT: Well, we slack off in the middle grades and in the high school grades. We do slack off, there's no question about it.

Now, the other part of the study, you asked about girls.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

BENNETT: Women are now outperforming men. They are out- enrolling men by huge numbers, 60-40 is pretty close to the percentage of enrollment by gender in American higher education. That is 60 percent female, 40 percent male.

There are all these efforts for women. People wrote all these reports. Men, it looks now, are starting to go to the margins.

And men, you know, in many ways need more help. As a former teacher for 20 years, the girls do the reading, Miles. The boys don't do the reading.

M. O'BRIEN: It's true. It's true. But when it comes to math and science, they have been turned off for whatever reason along the way.

That 60 percent that are now in higher education, women, are they in the technical side of it, or are they doing the poetry?

BENNETT: They are now. According to this report, Miles, very interesting, they are now in the biological sciences in a big way, and in the professional schools. Medical school, law school, equal numbers now of applicants from men -- from women, as well as men.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Bill Bennett, former secretary of Education, who, by the way, gave a commencement address on the air because, you know, every college senior wants at least two of them, right?

BENNETT: We had a commencement address on the radio for those who didn't like the one they had.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. And did you wear the garb and everything? You did the whole thing, huh?

BENNETT: I ain't saying.

M. O'BRIEN: It's radio. You can do whatever you want.

BENNETT: I wore a cap.

M. O'BRIEN: You were in your jammies, what the heck.

BENNETT: I wore a cap.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: All right. The cherry on top of the sundae, Bill Bennett.

Thanks very much.

BENNETT: All right. Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Getting word from the big jobs report for last month that's finally out. We'll tell you what it says about the economy as we mind your business just ahead.

And California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger makes his final call on whether to send the National Guard to the border with Mexico. We'll tell you what he's decided as AMERICAN MORNING continues. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody, to the last half-hour of AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Soledad O'Brien.

M. O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us.

Carol Costello in the newsroom.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Miles.

Good morning to all of you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com