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Canadian Police Hold Press Conference On Foiled Terror Plot; Russian Diplomat Killed, Four Kidnapped In Baghdad; Sheron Patterson Interview

Aired June 3, 2006 - 10:00   ET


BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: It is being called perhaps the biggest joint police effort in Canada since 9/11. At least 10 terror-related arrests in the Toronto area and there could be more. We are expecting a news conference from Canada any moment now.
When that happens, we're going to take you there live and show you what they'll be telling us. We're waiting to answer a whole lot of questions about the arrests that were made and more arrests are expected to come a little bit later.

In the meantime, good morning, everybody, from the CNN Center right here in Atlanta. I'm Betty Nguyen. It is Saturday, the third day of June.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris. Before we take you to Canada, here's a quick look at some other stories making news right now.

NGUYEN: In Indianapolis, new activity in the search for a suspected killer the loose. Up to 100 police officers are searching for this man -- you see him right there -- in connection with the Thursday killing of seven members of one family. CNN has a crew on the scene and we'll bring you the very latest in a live report. That is straight ahead.

HARRIS: A possible diplomatic crisis developing in Baghdad. Gunmen attacked a diplomatic car carrying five Russians. A Russian diplomat was killed, the other four workers were kidnapped. The incident took place in a neighborhood where the Russian embassy is located.

The army says U.S. troops will not face charges in a raid in the Iraqi town of Ishaqi. Officials say troops came under attack in March. They fired back, first on the ground, then from the air. The military says several Iraqi civilians may have been killed. Coming up, live reaction from Baghdad and the Pentagon.

NGUYEN: Well, a major settlement for a former nuclear scientist suspected of being a spy. The federal government and five news organizations have agreed to pay Wen Ho Lee $1.6 million in a privacy lawsuit. Now, Lee is accused -- or was accused by federal officials of leaking information that he was under investigation as a spy for China. Lee was later cleared of espionage.

Hammer time, the Shaq attack, whatever you want to call it -- the Miami Heat, yes. They will play in the teams very first NBA finals and to get there they hammered the Detroit Pistons 95-78.

HARRIS: A possible terror plot disrupted north of the border. Momentarily -- as a matter of fact, let's go right to Toronto right now.

CPL. MICHELE PARADIS, ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE: My name is Michele Paradis. I'm the media spokesperson for the RCMP in Ontario. I'd just like to set up a quick kind of agenda for how things will roll out today.

First of all, please, will you remember that this is an ongoing investigation. As such, there are some issues and some answers to questions that we will not be able to answer, whether for investigative reasons or legislative reasons. We will endeavor to answer your questions to the fullest of our abilities, but please, we must respect the integrity of the investigation, first and foremost.

We will begin with two brief prepared statements followed by a question and answer period directed at the panel. I ask that one, you identify yourselves; and, two, that you direct the question to the person, chief, or director that you would like to answer the question for you.

I would like to start now by introducing assistant commissioner Mike McDonell from the RCMP. He's in charge of our criminal intelligence and national security program -- Assistant Commissioner.

MIKE MCDONELL, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER, RCMP: Thank you, Michele. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'd like to thank you very much for attending today's news conference.

Before we start, I'd like to introduce my colleagues to you starting from my left. We have Luc Portelance, who is the assistant director of operations for CSIS; Bonnie Clancy (ph) with the Canadian Border Services Agency; RCMP assistant commissioner Mike Seguin (ph), responsible for O Division here in Ontario; Veram (ph) regional police chief, Vern White; OPP commissioner Gwen Bonnfis (ph); Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair; York regional police chief Armand La Barge; the director general of CSIS Toronto Region, Charles Bissant (ph); and Peel regional police chief Mike Metcalf.

After a lengthy investigation, the RCMP, in cooperation with our partners, through our integrated national security enforcement team or INSET in Toronto, have arrested individuals who were planning to commit a series of terrorist attacks against solely Canadian targets in southern Ontario.


We have arrested and charged 12 male adults. We have arrested five young offenders. These individuals have been charged with terrorism-related offenses under the Criminal Code of Canada.


The charges include: participating in or contributing to the activity of a terrorist group, including training and recruitment, which is contrary to section 83.18 of the Criminal Code of Canada; the commission of indictable offenses, including firearms and explosives offenses, for the benefit of, or in association with, a terrorist group which is contrary to section 83.2 of the Criminal Code of Canada; and providing or making available property for terrorist purposes, which is contrary to section 83.03 of the Criminal Code of Canada.

This group took steps to acquire components necessary to create explosive devices, using ammonium nitrate which is a commonly-used fertilizer. Three tons of ammonium nitrate was ordered by these individuals and delivered to them. It was their intent to use it for a terrorist attack.

If I can put this in context for you, the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people was completed with only one ton of ammonium nitrate.

This group posed a real and serious threat. It had the capacity and intent to carry out these acts. Our investigation and arrests prevented the assembly of any bombs and the attacks from being carried out. At all times, the primary focus of the investigation was the safety and protection of the public.


This has been, and continues to be, an intensive investigation in which many partners have been involved. Over 400 highly-skilled resources have dedicated thousands of hours to diligently conduct this investigation, using legislative and investigative tools available to the law enforcement and intelligence community.

We must remain vigilant. Canada is susceptible to criminal terrorist activity as much as any other country. Reducing the threat of terrorism is one of the RCMP's top priorities, and as Canada's national police, we are collecting, sharing and analyzing criminal intelligence with respect to entities and individuals that may pose a threat to national security, consistent with the laws of Canada and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

We are working closely with partners at all levels -- municipal, provincial, federal and international -- to ensure the safety and security of everyone. These arrests demonstrate the dedication and commitment of Canada's resolve to root out terrorist threats and maintain the safety and security of our communities.


I'd like to thank all of the men and women who have worked many long hours in order to protect the safety and security of our communities. I'd also like to thank their families who have made many sacrifices and continue to support our people. Thank you very much.

I'd also like to acknowledge the tremendous support and cooperation of these policing and intelligence partners that we have up here today, particularly CSIS with whom we've had a collaboration from the beginning of this investigation, and on matters of national security in general.

Finally, I would like to encourage the public to use the national security tip line at 1-800-420-5805 to report information regarding terrorism, criminal extremism, or suspicious activities that could pose a threat to public safety and security.

You, the public, are important partners in maintaining the level of safety and security all of us enjoy in this country. Canada is not immune to the threat of terrorism. I thank you very much and I turn it over to my partner, Luc Portelance, from CSIS.

LUC PORTELANCE, ASST. DIR. OF OPERATIONS, CSIS: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.


My name Luc Portelance. I'm the assistant director of operations at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. CSIS has a mandate to collect, analyze, and report to the government information and intelligence on threats to Canada's national security. Investigating terrorism and keeping Canadian residents safe is our number one priority.


CSIS played a vitally-important role in this investigation.


The men arrested yesterday are Canadian residents from a variety of backgrounds. For various reasons, they appeared to have become adherents of a violent ideology inspired by al Qaeda.


Any movement that has the ability to turn people against their fellow citizens is obviously something CSIS is very concerned about. We work closely with our partners both domestically and internationally to ensure that terrorists do not attack our country or our citizens.

This particular investigation is an excellent example of seamless cooperation between CSIS, the RCMP, and other law enforcement partners. By working together, we have prevented acts of violence and protected people from harm.


HARRIS: You have been listening to a news conference from the Canadian Mounted Police and related law enforcement agencies in Canada, discussing a number of arrests of 12 male adults, five young offenders, Canadian residents all, who as you just heard from various backgrounds who have fallen under the influence of al Qaeda.

This is all in connection with a series of, well, at least a plot that was apparently targeting a series of Canadian targets in southern Ontario. The charges include participating in and offering assistance to terrorist groups, of firearms charges in relation to a terrorist group, and it looked like the weapon of choice in this case was to be a fertilizer bomb made of ammonium nitrate.

Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve is on the phone with us to help us sort of flesh this all out. Good morning, Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony. Three tons of ammonium nitrate ordered and delivered, according to the Canadian authorities. This, of course, was the material used to blow up the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City in 1995. In that case, only one ton involved. Here three tons of ammonium nitrate ordered and delivered.

I've been told by a Canadian official that this was purely a Canadian plot. This was Canadians with Canadian targets. There was no indication of any intent to do anything involving the United States. As you heard in the press conference, they were described as being of a mix of ethnicities. I am told they were all Canadian citizens, they were all Canadian residents.

And I also am told that as far as the target list goes, these were, as you heard in the press conference, all domestic targets. I was told that they were all in the city of Toronto, although the Canadian officials at the press conference were not that specific. U.S. officials tell me that there have not been any additional steps taken at the U.S. border in reaction to this.

A Homeland Security spokesman tells me they already believe they have a very strong posture there, but they have been in touch with the Canadians and are clearly continuing to analyze and discuss what's happened in Canada to find out if any additional steps would need to be taken if, per chance, there would be any connection to the United States -- Tony.

HARRIS: Jeanne, that's very interesting because we're always curious as to the inner workings between these agencies here in the United States and Canada, and from your reporting, you're telling us that there seems to be pretty close cooperation between law enforcement officials in Canada and here in the states.

MESERVE: Well, certainly United States officials have talked to them since the arrests. The arrests -- I do not know if there was any involvement at all in this investigation and in these arrests. It would sound from the press conferences as if this were a Canadian operation, since it was an internal plot, apparently.

And it should be noted, a preemptive plot. Nothing has happened. These people were picked up before anything happened with that three tons of ammonium nitrate.

HARRIS: OK. Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve for us. Jeanne, as always, good to talk to you. Thanks.

MESERVE: Thanks. NGUYEN: We're going to continue with this and get some more answers. Barry McManus is a deception detection specialist, and he joins us today from Leesburg, Virginia.

Barry, Jeanne mentioned something that's very interesting, and it's something that a lot of people are thinking about right now as we learn of this plot in Canada about the possible connection, if there was any, to the U.S. and that leads us to question border security, border patrols. Talk to me about the need for that and how this really highlights that.

BARRY MCMANUS, DECEPTION DETECTION SPECIALIST: Good morning, Betty. Thank you for having me here this morning. I think, first, in order to protect our borders, it's clear right now that we need the cooperation between both federal agencies and that's including, border, intelligence law enforcement, everyone working together.

I think that's very significant, even though there may not have been any U.S. involvement in this, but I think it becomes very clear that working together in all law enforcement agencies are going to be very important.

But if the goal is to identify potential terrorists, those seeking to enter the United States to engage in potential hostile activity, the first opportunity of doing this, in my opinion, is when the potential terrorist attempts to enter the United States, and that's where I think U.S. Customs and Border Protection plays a major role.

NGUYEN: Well, as a deception detection specialist, when folks come across the border, what should not only authorities be looking for, but everyday people? Because they can help in the search and the spotting of those with ill intent.

MCMANUS: Well, I think everyday people are going to play an important role, but I think a great deal of effort now is being placed toward the counterterrorism response teams that we have at the ports of entries around the country, and I think those officers are playing a critical role in understanding or being more aware of the cultural awareness around them of potential individuals entering the United States.

They have to understand the possible mindset of terrorists and how they operate, both internationally and domestically, and also understand they need a great deal of skill set involving detecting deception and also in hiding -- or as far as their interview skills -- heightening their interview skills, which is ongoing as we speak.

NGUYEN: Well, yes. Those interview skills are being put into play right now. Twelve adults, five young people arrested in this. Talk to me about some of the ways that investigators are going try to get more information, because these people are going to be key to perhaps maybe a larger plot if there was one that's connected to this.

MCMANUS: Yes. You know, I don't want to -- right now, however, I won't speak of specific things that we're training officers to look for and I don't want to give out that kind of information to possible and potential terrorists.

But what I can say is that what we're doing is bringing a little psychology to law enforcement officials and we're training them on the best interviewing and deception detecting techniques that equip them to do a better job, also to identify those who are lying and their motivations behind their deception, because those potential terrorists that have been apprehended right now will be doing a series, obviously, of interviewing and questioning.

What I want to make clear is that we should not only train border officers to keep a lookout for people who are on the wanted posters, let's say, but also want them to be able to identify the ones that may slip through the cracks undetected.

So for those people you need to look for strange or deceptive types of verbal and nonverbal behaviors, things that people are doing that seem unusual or that they're exhibiting an attitude that does not intuitively seem to be based on what is normal behavior for a person.

NGUYEN: So if anyone sees something a little suspicious, a little odd, really, don't be afraid to speak up.

MCMANUS: Well, that's going to be the key. It's everybody working together, not -- as you say, both the general public and law enforcement officers, both intelligence and border officers working all together to try to deter someone from entering the United States with this hostile intent.

NGUYEN: Barry McManus, deception detection specialist, joining us by phone from Leesburg, Virginia this morning. Barry, thank you.

MCMANUS: You're welcome. Thank you, Betty.

HARRIS: And, Betty, there is new activity in the search for a suspected killer on the loose in Indianapolis. An update on the search for Desmond Turner when we come back. You're watching CNN SATURDAY MORNING.


HARRIS: And good morning, everyone. New developments in the manhunt in Indianapolis for the prime suspect in the killings of seven members of one family.

CNN's Keith Oppenheim is on the phone with the very latest. What can you tell us, Keith?

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, I'm in a residential neighborhood on Indianapolis' east side, a few miles from where the family of seven people were murdered. There's a major police operation going here. The SWAT team is here, lots of neighbors looking on.

Witnesses on the scene tell me that about 40 minutes ago, police fired tear gas into a home on this street, witnesses believe, to get the key suspect in this case, Desmond Turner, out. Witnesses also say that police used a bullhorn calling his name, Turner, to get him out.

It appears that two people are in custody here. A man and a woman and a small boy were seen coming out of the home this morning. In fact, in front of me I can see two adults detained in squad cars.

Again, we believe that the main suspect, Desmond Turner, is holed up in a house here based on what witnesses have told us, but I cannot confirm that from police officially. They haven't officially told us that yet.

Turner, as you know, is wanted for the murder of seven people, Alberto Covarrubias and his wife, Emma. Their four children, and one grandson all killed last Thursday night -- Tony.

HARRIS: OK, Keith, let me sort of take this apart with you, if we could, please. How far away from the scene of the murders is this operation going on right now?

OPPENHEIM: Well, I don't have an exact measure because I just drove it by car. It's just a few miles. It's still in the same general vicinity.

HARRIS: And the reason I mention that is that police always felt that this guy would be in the general vicinity of where the crimes took place. I believe that earlier today you mentioned to us that he may have actually lived in a home very near the home where the crimes took place.

OPPENHEIM: Well, at one point he did just live a couple of houses away, although police have said that he has no on official residence that they know of yet. Again, to get to your earlier point, that if indeed Desmond Turner is in the house down the street from where I am looking, then that would follow with what police said before that he would stay in the general area of Indianapolis' east side.

HARRIS: OK, Keith, then let us let you go and gather some more information for us. As soon as you have anything, why don't you just give us a head's up and we'll reconnect. Appreciate it, Keith.

OPPENHEIM: OK, thanks a lot.

HARRIS: Thank you.

NGUYEN: A lot of developments this morning. Folks at home, though, you may be heading out to enjoy your Saturday, but get this, stormy weather could be hitting a picnic near you. Your forecast just two minutes away.


NGUYEN: Well, you better watch out. Nature could again be on the rampage today. New Jersey is warned to expect another round of violent weather and it's no comfort for residents who say last night's storm was a wild ride that they'd rather just forget about.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounded like a train was coming through. I mean, the house just vibrated and you just -- all you heard outside was noise, trees falling, just noise. It was unbelievable.


NGUYEN: Today's storms are also expected to move into New England where folks are bracing for more flooding and power outages. Utility crews worked in driving rain through the night to restore power to several thousand customers and they could use some of that moisture out west, though.

Check this out -- hot, dry conditions are inviting stubborn wildfires. This one near Sedona has burned more than 800 acres and destroyed at least five buildings. Officials say containment is about 50 percent. Now lightning is blamed for starting several other wildfires in the state.

HARRIS: And, look, I don't want to make too much of a big deal about the situation in the Northeast. Maybe I can't make a big enough deal about it, but here's the thing.

NGUYEN: All the rain.

HARRIS: We were here for the Mother's Day weekend. Reynolds was with us. And, you know, we wake up Monday and the Northeast was just devastated.

NGUYEN: Flooded, yes.

HARRIS: So we want to keep a close eye on that situation. Reynolds Wolf upstairs in the CNN Weather Center.

NGUYEN: And the ground has got to be really saturated still, right, Reynolds?


NGUYEN: All right. I think warm is putting it mildly. Hot! Thank you, Reynolds.

Iraqi civilians killed by U.S. troops in the line of duty or was it just out of bounds?

HARRIS: A U.S. military report is in with its findings. More in a live report from Baghdad straight ahead.


NGUYEN: Just moments ago in a news conference seen live here on CNN, Canadian authorities announced the breakup of a suspected terror ring. Officials said a series of raids netted 17 Canadian suspects who had been planning bomb attacks against Canadian targets in Ontario. You'll want to stay with CNN throughout the day as we gather more information on this developing story. Now to Indianapolis, police activity within the past hour as they combed the city for ex-convict Desmond Turner. Here's his picture. CNN's Keith Oppenheim reports that SWAT teams have surrounded a house several miles away from where a family of seven was killed two days ago. Turner was named prime suspect in those killings. An alleged accomplice was arrested yesterday. We're going to bring you the latest on this manhunt as news becomes available to us.

HARRIS: Javier Solana, the head of foreign policy at the European Union, may travel to Tehran to present an incentives package aimed at curtailing Iran's nuclear program. No timetable for that trip has been set. Iran's foreign minister said today that Iran welcomes international talks, but warns the E.U. and the U.S. quote, "not to repeat past mistakes." Iran's president has already said, Iran will not abandon its nuclear program under pressure from the west.

The Federal government and five news organizations have agreed to pay nuclear scientist Wen Ho Lee $1.6 million in a privacy lawsuit. However, more than half of that settlement can only be used to pay Lee's legal fees. Lee accused Federal officials of leaking information he was under investigation as a spy for China. He was later cleared of espionage.

And in the NBA finals, look for the Miami heat, 95-78. That was the magic formula for Miami to win its first-ever trip to the finals. The Heat had to melt the Pistons to get there.

NGUYEN: Under fire and under scrutiny. U.S. troops in Iraq cleared of wrongdoing in one incident, but the military is still investigating an alleged massacre in two deadly shootings. The army says troops will not face charges in the March raid in the town Ishaqi. Officials say U.S. forces came under attack and then fired back. They say as many as a dozen Iraqi civilians may have died.

Now, also under investigation, the shooting death of an Iraqi man in Hamandiya back in April. A source says murder charges are likely against several troops. Another incident happened this week in Samarra. The military is looking into reports that soldiers shot and killed two women. One of them was pregnant. A vehicle apparently sped through a checkpoint.

HARRIS: Outrage in Iraq today over the outcome of that U.S. military investigation. CNN's John Vause joins us with reaction from Baghdad. Hi, John.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Tony. U.S. officials may have exonerated the American servicemen involved in the affair at Ishaqi. That is not good enough for the Iraqi government which has ordered its own investigation. An aide to the Iraqi prime minister told CNN earlier today, quote, the Iraqi government should continue its own investigation until the truth can be found and the U.S. military exonerating U.S. troops in the incident at Ishaqi raises questions and doubt.

But U.S. military officials have said their own investigation has shown that the ground force commander was operating within the rules of engagement and that allegations that U.S. forces rounded up a dozen members of one family, kept them in a room and then killed them and then destroyed the house to cover up the evidence are, quote, "absolutely false." The spokesman for the U.S. military who was briefing Arab reporters here in Baghdad earlier today, again outlined U.S. policy when Iraqi civilians are killed.


MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, U.S. ARMY: All loss of innocent life is tragic and unfortunate and we absolutely regret such occurrences. We take all reports of improper conduct seriously. We investigate them thoroughly and we hold our troops accountable for their actions.


VAUSE: Now, Iraqi police raised questions about what may or may not have happened at Ishaqi. They're relying on eyewitness testimony. Some of the allegations again that accused U.S. forces of rounding up 11 or 12 members from the one family, shooting them all dead, calling in an air strike to destroy the home. All of this based on eyewitness accounts. It must be stressed though the U.S. military says those allegations are simply not true -- Tony.

HARRIS: Hey, John, give us an update on today's attack on a Russian diplomatic personnel.

VAUSE: We have a few more details. Five members of this diplomatic team were driving through the Mansour district in west Baghdad, That's the upscale area where most of the embassies are housed. They were stopped by gunmen who opened fire. One of the diplomats in the car was killed. Four others were kidnapped. They appeared to have been driving a white SUV.

It was marked with diplomatic plates, also with Russian embassy written in both English and Arabic. There was also signs of gunfire on the vehicle as well. According to the Associated Press, a statement coming from Moscow from the Russian foreign ministry said in part Russian, Iraq and international authorities are working to secure the release of hostages, but the names and the positions of those who were abducted and killed have yet to be released, Tony.

HARRIS: OK, CNN's John Vause for us in Baghdad. John, appreciate it, thank you.

NGUYEN: John did talk about the investigations. Those investigations in Iraq lead us to our e-mail question this morning. What do you think about the recent allegations against U.S. troops in Iraq? We want you to e-mail us your thoughts. Here's the address, It's on your screen. We're going to read some of your replies throughout the morning and so far we got some really good ones, people really passionate about what they think about these investigations.

All right, this is a hard turn. From that to making a love connection. HARRIS: Where are you going with this Betty?

NGUYEN: Having a good, solid relationship can be tough, Tony.

HARRIS: Coming up, we will talk to Sheron Patterson. She is the author of "Put on Your Crown, the Black Woman's Guide to Living Single." Stay with CNN, the most trusted name in news.


NGUYEN: Let's check our top stories right now. We are continuing to follow this breaking news out of Canada. Canadian police may have foiled a terrorist attack in and around the city of Toronto. Just moments ago police announced the arrest of 17 people on terrorism-related offenses including five young people. Police say the suspects tried to obtain three tons of ammonium nitrate and other materials necessary to create explosive devices. We'll stay on top of that for you.

In Iraq, an aide to Iraq's prime minister says the U.S. military rushed to judgment in clearing American troops of misconduct. A military investigation found troops acted properly when they raided a suspected al Qaeda safe house in the town of Ishaqi. As many as 12 civilians were killed.

There is more bad weather expected today in parts of the northeast. These pictures now from Clarksboro, New Jersey. Forecasters say torrential rain and powerful thunderstorms will continue in the region today. That rain could cause flooding in low lying areas.

HARRIS: If you are a single female, finding a husband can sometimes be a daunting task at best. If you are an African-American woman and single, the numbers are even more depressing, sorry to say. It's one of the subjects we've talked over with Bill Cosby just a couple of weeks ago.


BILL COSBY, ENTERTAINER: Since the males are not coming out of college with the numbers, our females are graduating in some of these colleges. Some of these African-American colleges, they're graduating 70 to 30, the numbers are. Now where are you going to find the males?


HARRIS: Well, that sentiment was echoed by noted relationship specialist Dr. Sheron Patterson recently. She writes in her new book, "you've got to be a queen regardless of whether or not you have a man. There is no room for negotiation. Either you are on top or you are on the bottom. It is your choice. Either you are the queen or you are the chambermaid."

Patterson is the author of "Put on Your Crown, the Black Woman's Guide to Living Single" and she joins us from Dallas, Texas this morning. Dr. Patterson. Good to talk to you. SHERON PATTERSON, AUTHOR, "PUT ON YOUR CROWN": Good morning, how are you, Tony?

HARRIS: I'm outstanding, outstanding, can't wait to get into the conversation with you. As Cosby writes..

PATTERSON: Dr. Cosby has a great point. So many women are graduating and there are no men. As a result, Tony, the women are lowering their standards and accepting any kind of behavior and there's also a feeling of desperation that's taken hold and there's really taking women down to some very low levels and I say you're a queen, live like it.

HARRIS: You don't have to be -- you don't want to tell me here that you need to be a graduate in order to be acceptable to upwardly mobile black women, are you? That's not what you're saying here, is it?

PATTERSON: That's not what I'm saying at all. I saying Tony, the behavior level, the dating doggishness that many women ...

HARRIS: The dating doggishness.

PATTERSON: Dating is really doggish these days, Tony and women are accepting behavior they should not and I'm basically saying, let's raise the standards, men and women. Let's behave better. Let's treat each other like adults instead of really misbehaving and really tearing up lives and hearts and minds and souls.

HARRIS: You know what? I'm not going sit here and believe, maybe you're going to tell me I should and listen to the doctor.


HARRIS: But I'm not going to believe that this is just a problem being faced by black women. I have to feel that this is a problem that all women are facing.

PATTERSON: You know what. Tony, you're right. It's universal. Everybody has dating problems. The problem in the African-American community is because the pool of eligible men is so small, women's behavior has gone through the roof with things they shouldn't be doing.

There's a desperation to get married. There's a philosophy that says it's better to have a fraction of a man than no man at all. So they result to man sharing. They result to lowering themselves and in my book I'm saying let's cut all that out. It's better to be a queen and have your sanity than be connected to a worthless man.

HARRIS: You know what you are?


HARRIS: I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you what you are. PATTERSON: What am I, Tony?

HARRIS: You are a man hater.

PATTERSON: Oh, Tony, no! Tony! Tony!

HARRIS: The whole -- hang on a second. The whole room is screaming at me.

NGUYEN: Why is she a man hater all of a sudden?

HARRIS: Why is the whole room screaming at me?

PATTERSON: I am not a man hater. Tony, I love men.

HARRIS: All right, doctor. Have your say.

PATTERSON: Listen to me very closely. I think the crux of the matter is for too long, women have been silent and have accepted this unacceptable behavior and men have come to believe it's OK. Now we women are saying let's raise the standard. Let's all act better and if the women demand that men change their ways, they will.

HARRIS: You know what?

PATTERSON: Once they behave -- once they treat us right -...


HARRIS: Betty.

NGUYEN: I agree wholeheartedly.

PATTERSON: Thank you, Betty. Thank you.

HARRIS: Here's the point I want to make. I just don't -- I have this sense and I got this from Dr. Cosby as well, that it is a bit of a sad statement to feel that African-American men somehow are going to be left behind. I'm all for the empowerment thing. No, let's listen to Dr. Cosby right now. Do you have the sound bite and then Dr. Patterson, I want you to respond.



COSBY: Since the males are not coming out of college with the numbers, our females are graduating in some of these colleges, some of these African-American colleges, they're graduating 70 to 30 the numbers are. Where are you going find the man?


HARRIS: Let's get out of that. That was the same old bite. I had a different bite that I wanted to play. All right. Any final thoughts on this before we say good-bye and I try to redeem myself in the room?

PATTERSON: Tony, first of all, hear me well. I am not downing men or trying to leave men behind.


PATTERSON: I do want to leave behind the music, that rap music take tears down women. I do want to leave behind this pimp mentality where you have to be a pimp and have several women. I want the men to leave behind the negative behavior and then come alongside the woman treating them the way they deserve.

HARRIS: What's the title of the book again? Let's sell a couple of copies of your book.

PATTERSON: "Put on your Crown." Be a queen!

HARRIS: Good to see you. Good conversation.

NGUYEN: Assert your power.


NGUYEN: You're in a lot of trouble.

HARRIS: I am in trouble.

NGUYEN: He may not be back, folks, but I will and I'll be coming back with the e-mail answers. There's a great question this morning. What do you think about the investigations into troops in Iraq? Stay with us.

HARRIS: It was a simple conversation.

NGUYEN: You have gone overboard!


NGUYEN: Here's some breaking news for you. I want to give you an update on that manhunt in Indianapolis. Police were searching for Desmond Turner who is believed to have killed seven family members on Thursday at a home near the home that you're looking at right now. This is a neighborhood where police were searching at the top of the hour.

From what we heard from Keith Oppenheim, our correspondent on the scene, they threw in tear gas into one of these homes and went inside. From what we know at this moment, there have been no arrests and in fact, police have ended that search. So apparently the search for Desmond Turner is still ongoing. Police, Tony, as we heard earlier, believe that he's still in the vicinity.

HARRIS: Exactly. This is the second location now where police have surrounded a home and have tried to, while under the assumption that Turner was inside the home only to find out that he wasn't there. So the search continues for Desmond Turner. We want to get you to our e-mail question of the day. Your responses, you really have embraced this question. You sent us some great thoughts. What do you think about the recent allegations against U.S. troops in Iraq?

Ed from Burlington, North Carolina writes, "I'm a Korean War veteran who lost many of my close buddies in that political war. I do not condone the killing of innocent people, but before we put brave soldiers on trial for their lives, be double sure they have done something wrong that they were not trained to do."

NGUYEN: N.A. Nadir from New York says, "I thought we went there to help the Iraqi people, not kill them when we get stressed out or upset. These soldiers deserve Iraqi justice, not Camp Pendleton justice."

HARRIS: And this from N. Margaret Douglas who writes, "Horrors in Haditha are the result of keeping soldiers in combat year after year. It's not the soldier's fault that they snap. It's the fault of the president for not accepting that recruiting is down, the soldiers are tired and the violence is escalating."

Once again, thank you for your response. You guys have been great this morning to our question. What do you think about the recent allegations against U.S. troops in Iraq.

Still much more ahead on CNN this Saturday morning including the very latest on the announced breakup of a terror ring in Toronto.

NGUYEN: That and all of the day's news coming up right after this short break. So stick around.



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