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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Body of Missing U.S. Soldiers Found Mutilated; President Bush At Summit Meeting in Vienna; U.S. Activates Missile Defense System; House Republican Leaders Believe Candidates Who Oppose Illegal Immigration Will Be More Successful; Significant Blow Against Forged Document Industry; Voting Machine Controversy; John Cornyn Discusses Workplace Enforcement of Illegal Immigration
Aired June 20, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf, thank you.
Tonight, the military has found what they believe are the bodies of two missing American soldiers in Iraq. Insurgents mutilated those bodies and set a trap for soldiers looking for their missing comrades.
We'll have complete coverage from Iraq. Good evening, everybody.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. News debate and opinion for Tuesday, June 20. Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening everybody.
American troops today found what they believe are the bodies of two missing U.S. soldiers in Iraq. Search teams found the bodies in the same area where the soldiers were taken prisoner by insurgents last Friday. The military says insurgents booby-trapped their bodies. The insurgents also lined the route to those bodies with improvised explosive devices.
Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon now with the latest details on what happened.
Suzanne Malveaux reports from Vienna, Austria, on President Bush's efforts to win European support on Iraq and the nuclear confrontations with both Iran and North Korea. We turn first to Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Lou, a grim end to that search for the two missing American soldiers. An Iraqi Defense Ministry official says the bodies showed signs of torture and that they had died in a brutally barbaric way.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Military sources could not say how or exactly when Privates Kristian Menchaca and Thomas Tucker died but they suffered what was described as significant trauma, so much so that DNA tests will be required to make a final identification. The bodies were found in early evening along the road in an isolated area near Yusufiyah. They same village where the soldiers were captured three nights earlier when they came under attack while guarding a bridge over a canal.
Local Iraqis spotted the bodies and tipped the U.S. military, warning the remains could be booby-trapped. The recovery took nearly 12 hours because the bodies had in fact been rigged with explosives and the main route to the site lined with IEDs. In what the U.S. military says a clear attempt to target the recovery team.
MAJ. GEN. BILL CALDWELL, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: We secured the area with a fairly large group of soldiers last night so as to protect that and allow nobody either to enter or exit that little location. And then at first dawn brought in the explosive ordinance and other assets and went in and recovered what we believe to be our two American soldiers.
MCINTYRE: One IED exploded but no one was hurt says a military spokesperson. It was the same tactic used last April when insurgents posted this video after claiming to have shot down an Apache helicopter also in the vicinity of Yusufiyah.
In that case, the U.S. military now says 19 IEDs have been planted near the wreckage, slowing recovery of the remains of two pilots for half a day. A radical Islamist Web site that usually carries messages from the insurgency boasted that al Qaeda's new leader in Iraq believed to be Egyptian Abu al Masri, personally killed the soldiers.
The posting said, in part, "We executed God's will and slaughtered the two crusader animals we had in captivity."
The U.S. military said it could not verify the claim.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: And Lou, the U.S. military is disputing reports that the soldiers may have made a critical mistake by splitting up after they came under attack. The spokesman insist there was only one attack on the three soldiers at the bridge, but that leaves open the question of why those three soldiers would have been essentially by themselves in such a dangerous part of Iraq -- Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
President Bush is in Vienna, Austria, for a summit meeting that will focus on Iraq and the rising nuclear threats from both North Korea and Iran. North Korea is on the brink of testing a long range ballistic missile, one with range sufficient to hit the United States. At the same time, Iran is refusing to suspend its nuclear weapons program. Suzanne Malveaux with the president reports now from Vienna. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, of course, the president dealing with all three members of the so-called "Axis of Evil," Iraq, Iran and North Korea really the killings of those soldiers comes at a very difficult time for this administration. It is trying to emphasize the positives of progress there, but it really underscores the volatility of that region.
President Bush, of course, is not going to be asking for troops here. He's going to be asking for cash. He essentially is going to say we're moving forward, we're not talking about past disagreements over the U.S. invasion or the Iraq War. But rather the $13 billion that allies have committed to Iraqi reconstruction, $3 billion which has been made available. He's going to be pushing for more cash.
On the issue of Iran, the president is also going to be trying to stress here that there's international unity when it comes to the strategy of getting Iran to abandon its nuclear ambitions. He will talk about essentially those incentives that were offered by the permanent five members of the UN Security Council and Germany, offered by the E.U., and if that does not work, that, yes, everyone is on board when it comes to UN Security Council sanctions.
Then, finally, of course, North Korea, administration officials trying to downplay the significance of any possible missile tests here. They say the evidence is not yet conclusive. They essentially do not want to get caught up in some sort of game where they believe North Korea would be creating some sort of false crisis -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you. Suzanne Malveaux, traveling with the president tonight in Vienna, Austria.
The Pentagon has activated the national missile defense system as North Korea is making final preparations for an intercontinental ballistic missile test. Officials have declared the missile defense system operational after six years of testing. But it's unclear whether the system can successfully shoot down an enemy missile. Barbara Starr has that report from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Okinawa, an air force spy plane takes off carrying sensors that can be used to track North Korea's expected launch of its long range Taepodong missile. Bush administration officials hope international pressure will keep North Korea from conducting the test launch of a missile that could hit the United States.
ALEXANDER VERSHBOW, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SOUTH KOREA: This missile has military capability and we view it, therefore, as a serious matter, particularly in the context of North Korea's illegal development of nuclear weapons.
STARR: If there is a missile launch, the U.S. military will be able to see how well its $11 billion missile defense system work. Several elements of a defensive shield are already in place. Early warning satellites will detect the exhaust from a launch within seconds. Then upgraded radar in the Alaska's Aleutian Islands and at Beale Air Force Base in Sacramento, California, will begin tracking the missile's path.
U.S. Navy ships in the Pacific with upgraded radars will also track the Taepodong missile which has a reported range of about 3,000 miles. All of this will help the U.S. quickly determine if Pyongyang is using the missile to simulate an attack. The U.S. currently has three aircraft carriers, hundreds of aircraft and other military assets in the Pacific participating in a long planned exercise.
The Pentagon has drafted orders for a military response to a North Korean missile launch, but only as a matter of routine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Lou, everyone believes that this effort by North Korea is a test, not an attack. Simply a test launch of one of its missiles. But if it were to be an attack, then the U.S. has another tool it could use, a number of interceptor missiles in Alaska and in California that it could attempt to launch to shoot the North Korean missile down -- Lou.
DOBBS: There is no plan in that case Barbara, to fire on this missile despite the decision to go operational with the missile defense system?
STARR: Well, let's be very clear. Basically, the U.S. would only fire on something that it perceived to be a direct military attack on the United States, a direct military threat. What all these radars are going to do is monitor the launch and determine very quickly what kind of trajectory that missile has, where it's headed, where it may fall. And if, as expected, it would simply be aiming at somewhere in the Pacific Ocean, there would be no reason to shoot it down, Lou.
Barbara Starr from the Pentagon. Thank you, Barbara.
In Washington today, a jury has convicted a former White House official in a widening influence peddling scandal in the nation's capital. David Safavian was found lying to investigators about his ties to disgraced Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff. Safavian oversaw federal property while he was helping Abramoff obtain valuable government owned real estate.
At the time Safavian accepted a golf trip to Scotland, a trip that Abramoff paid for. Later Safavian directed Hurricane Katrina relief efforts as well for the White House.
Coming up heater tonight, the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives plans a new challenge to the White House and to the Senate's pro amnesty agenda for illegal immigration. We'll be live on Capitol Hill with the latest.
And rising concerns tonight about the future of our democracy. As e-voting machines spread all across the country. Tonight we'll have a special report on the battle over e-voting in the State of Georgia. And it is a complicated story.
Our nation's public school system failing an entire generation of our students. The author of a troubling new report on the soaring dropout rates in our high schools will join us here.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The House leadership tonight is planning to hold public hearings on our illegal immigration and border security crisis. Those House hearings could finally kill the White House and Senate efforts to force Congress to accept legislation to award amnesty to millions of illegal aliens.
Andrea Koppel reports from Capitol Hill on the House leadership's determination to challenge the Senate and the White House on the issues.
Bill Schneider reports from Washington on the rising importance of illegal immigration and border security crisis in the upcoming midterm elections. And Peter Viles tonight reports from Los Angeles on a significant new blow against the criminal empire that supplies many of the forged documents to illegal aliens in this country.
We turn to Andrea Koppel first -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Republicans say Speaker Hastert's highly unusual move to hold immigration hearings in summer is an attempt to hear from the American people. But many Democrats, like Ken Salazar of Colorado, believe it is simply election year politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. KEN SALAZAR (D), COLORADO: I smell a rat. You know, and I think the rat is that the House of Representatives and the leadership really don't want a bill at all. What they want to do is orchestrate this issue for political advantage.
KOPPEL (voice-over): Last year House Republicans passed a tough border security first bill and say that's still their top priority. And weeks after the Senate passed a bipartisan bill with a guest worker program and an earned path to citizenship, procedural problems and partisan bickering cast doubt on prospects for compromise this year with the House. Florida Republican Clay Shaw in a tight race back home called hearings an excellent idea and added that ...
REP. CLAY SHAW, (R) FL: Well, no bill is better than a bad bill because we're dealing with a huge subject right here, and we've really got to try to do the right thing.
KOPPEL: Privately, Republicans in the House and Senate say after Republican Congressman Brian Bilbray focused his campaign this month on border security first and won, GOP leaders recognize being tough on immigration fired up the Republican base. With lots of tight House races heading into the November midterms, one of the key Republican sponsors of this Senate bill expressed understanding.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think the House leadership has a tough situation. Obviously, there's a lot of controversy about the issue of immigration and what we did and anything we can do to help explain it and move the process on, I'm all for it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: But the question is will the process move along to an eventual House/Senate compromise this fall or will it remain deadlocked until after November? The third ranking Republican in the House, Roy Blount, said, sounding skeptical, Lou, "It's possible, but I don't know how likely it is." Lou.
DOBBS: Andrea, thank you. Andrea Koppel from Capitol Hill.
As Andrea just reported, the House leadership's plan to hold hearings on our illegal immigration and border security crisis demonstrates the rising importance of the issue in the upcoming midterm elections. House Republican leaders believe candidates who oppose illegal immigration will be more successful than those who support amnesty. It's that straightforward. Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): In the special election for a House seat in California this month, Republican Brian Bilbray was supposed to be vulnerable on the corruption issue. His Democratic opponent called in lobbyist Bilbray to link him to the disgraced former congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham. But Bilbray ran as a staunch opponent to illegal immigration and won. Immigration trumped corruption.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: It wasn't until I was to highlight the fact that did I not agree with my friends in the Senate or my friend in the White House on amnesty that we really saw the polls start supporting me strongly.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans around the country got the message. You may be able to save yourself by defying President Bush on illegal immigration. Critics of illegal immigration are energized and motivated. Those who oppose a path to citizenship for illegal aliens care more about the issue.
House Republican leaders now say they want to hold public hearings on immigration this summer. Who is going to show up at those hearings? People who care the most about the issue. Those are likely to be anti-illegal immigration activists. The hearings are likely to harden House resistance to the Senate bill.
BILBRAY: Well, I think that it shows that there's no chance that the House of Representatives is going to accept the Senate's proposal for things like Social Security benefits, earned income tax credits, benefits for people who are illegally here.
SCHNEIDER: And make it very likely that no compromise can be reached.
BILBRAY: A death knell to support the amnesty proposal. It is better to have no bill at all than to tell the American people that you're going to reward people for breaking our laws. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: No bill at all? President Bush will not be happy. But you know, in politics, members of Congress are in business for themselves -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, the mantra has changed significantly. We've gone from hearing the Senate majority leader Bill Frist say that any bill is certainly preferable to no bill. Now we're hearing very clearly no bill far better than a bad bill which I think is generally agreed by just about everyone the Senate bill is.
SCHNEIDER: You're hearing that certainly from members of the House of Representatives who are desperate to save themselves and who took a lesson from Brian Bilbray's victory. And there is going to be a primary in Nevada next week where an incumbent Republican, Chris Cannon is opposed by a critic of his position on illegal immigration. And that primary may send the same message. Depends on how it turns out.
DOBBS: In Utah, right, Bill?
SCHNEIDER: Utah, sorry.
DOBBS: Thank you, Bill Schneider.
Also tonight, Federal authorities say they've struck a significant blow against this nation's forged document industry, at least a large part of it, which receives much of its money from this nation's illegal alien population. Authorities have arrested Pedro Castorena whose reputed criminal empire helped countless illegal aliens commit felonies and remain in the United States illegally. Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Millions of illegal aliens need fake documents. And for a generation, one family has allegedly dominated the business of supplying them. Now finally the alleged kingpin of the Castorena family is in custody.
Pedro Castorena, arrested Saturday night in Mexico by both Mexican and American agents. The charges -- money laundering and document fraud.
JEFF COPP, U.S. IMMIGRATIONS AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: This is huge for us. His organization spanned the United States. He was actually running this like you would run any business. He was selling the franchises to these other groups that wanted to manufacture counterfeit documents in what he considered his territory.
VILES: Federal officials say that territory spans the United States with Castorena franchises in Los Angeles, Albuquerque, Denver, Nebraska, Iowa, Chicago, North Carolina and Atlanta.
ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERSUSA: It's definitely a great thing for the United States as a whole. It should take a chunk out of the document fraud business, which we desperately need. There are still family members out there that need to be taken down. And ICE knows who they are and they're operating from within the United States.
VILES: Now 42, Pedro Castorena has been a wanted man for most of his adult life, initially targeted for document fraud in the late '80s in Los Angeles, targeted a second time in 1994 in San Antonio, indicted along with two brothers in 1995, he avoided arrest by fleeing to Mexico, where he appears to have operated with impunity for 11 years.
A third investigation launched in Denver in 2000 leading to his second indictment last July and ultimately his arrest last weekend. If convicted, he faces up to 20 years in federal prison here in the United States, but first U.S. officials have to get him here from Mexico.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES (on camera): Extradition can be a drawn-out process, but the Mexican government did participate in his arrest, which is a good sign Lou, for a relatively quick extradition.
DOBBS: And a sign of perhaps changing times, we can all hope.
VILES: Sure is. Another recent case in Denver, they got a quick extradition of an illegal alien after being accused of shooting a police officer in Denver.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Peter Viles, thank you, in Los Angeles.
Now our poll this evening. The question, would you favor congressional action on border security now and a delay for one to two years of any further discussion of illegal immigration law reform? Yes or no. Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.
Coming up next, Senator John Cornyn joins me-. He says we need to turn of the magnet of illegal employment in order to stop illegal immigration. He'll be here to discuss the future of so-called comprehensive immigration reform
And more voters are casting their ballots or electronic voting machines. But how election officials are verifying these votes is causing something of an uproar. We'll have our special report on democracy at risk.
And tonight, a new report that gives our public schools failing grades. Why are so many of our high school students dropping out? The author of this critically important report joins me next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Serious questions about electronic voting machines are threatening to undermine confidence in our electoral system. All voters in the State of Georgia will cast their ballots on electronic voting machines this year. But watchdog groups say election officials can't verify the accuracy of the count and can't conduct a proper recount. Those groups say our democracy is at risk. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Georgia has a primary in less than 30 days. Voting is 100 percent electronic, except for absentee ballots. Diebold has the contract for 24,000 TSR6 touch screen machines. Some activists are worried there is no proper record on this model.
JOHN FORTUIN, DEFENDERS OF DEMOCRACY: I have 20 years experience programming computers mostly for the financial sector, and the standards that are used in the financial sector are wholly absent from the Diebold voting system.
PILGRIM: At a state election board meeting this week, activists were demanding decertification of the machines. The Georgia Secretary of State office says that electronic voting will be discussed at a later date, adding that we do testing on every unit before the election.
Voting activists say even if machines are certified and tested before the election, the only real way to check results is with a printed paper record that is put into a lock box on Election Day. That will not be done in Georgia.
Another troubling issue for watchdog groups is current secretary of state Cathy Cox who championed the transition to electronic voting machines in Georgia and will certify the vote statewide is running for governor in that same election.
AVI RUBIN, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: That's a terrible conflict of interest. I think elections need to be run by unbiased, independent parties. And such things do not exist, what we need are very transparent voting mechanisms so no one has to bring into doubt anybody's motives or behaviors.
PILGRIM: Georgians for Verified Voting say their goals have nothing to do with politics.
DONNA PRICE, GEORGIANS FOR VERIFIED VOTING: It is not political. It is not with Cathy Cox. It is about making sure that the election is legitimate for Georgia.
Voting in a democracy is not about trusting that behind the curtain individuals will do the right thing. It's about security, transparency and auditability. It's about checks and balances. And Georgia's voting system fails on all counts.
PILGRIM: We called Diebold about this model, they did not return our calls.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: The secretary of state's office points out the votes are certified by local election boards first and historically other secretaries of state have run for another office, but activists say this only illustrates the broader concerns that electronic voting systems must have a voter-verified paper trail to establish trust with the voters -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, how in the world can you verify the accuracy of a machine if you don't have an analog, if you will, control for it?
PILGRIM: There really is no question. It's not even debatable.
DOBBS: And the idea -- I love the situation -- I kind of like I guess if I were betting, I'd bet on, is it secretary of state Cox in this upcoming election? She gets to certify the results, decide on the machines, while running for governor.
PILGRIM: They say they're locally certified first, but she signs off on it statewide.
DOBBS: They have a secretary of state that's actually hooked up now with Diebold, right?
PILGRIM: That's exactly right. Their previous secretary of state, Louis Massey has a lobbying firm, Diebold is a client.
DOBBS: Quite a little industry. E-voting. Thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
Taking a look now at your thoughts. Eugene in Indiana, "I'm a retired garbage man who retired after almost 34 years on the job. On June 15, 2006, on the Lou Dobbs program someone played the remark that being a garbage man is a job an American worker will not do. Who the hell do they think they are and what gives the politicians in Washington the right to degrade American workers the way they do and determine what jobs Americans will and will not do? Who do they think has done these jobs for all these years?"
I couldn't have asked that question better myself. And Jacqueline in Arizona, "If Congress wants a pay increase, they should tie it to their approval rating. More than 50 percent required for increases and a vote on the issue."
By the way, the approval rating is just under 30 percent. Down to 25 percent in some polls.
Ken in Virginia, "After hearing about the raise that our politicians gave themselves, only contested by one individual I might add, I have decided that there is only one thing left for me to do, become a politician."
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. And we hope you'll reconsider that possibility. We'll have more of your thoughts coming up here later.
Next, corporate America hiring millions of illegal aliens while the federal government does nothing to enforce our loss. Senator John Cornyn is demanding action. He wants to change all that. He's our guest coming up here next.
And why will a million students drop out of high school this year? That's right, in the United States of America. Christopher Swanson of the Education Research Center discusses his on our failing public school system. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, our nation's public education system is failing our nation's high school students. We've been reporting this issue for years. A shocking new independent study now shows more than 1.2 million high school seniors across the country who should have graduated this year won't. A 30 percent of the entire class of 2006 is missing. Most have simply dropped out. A majority of those dropouts are minorities. Most of them dropped out in their freshman year, in fact.
Joining me tonight, the author of the study, Christopher Swanson, director of editorial projects at the Education Research Center, the supervisor of this new study on the nationwide dropout rates. Christopher, it's good to have you here.
CHRISTOPHER SWANSON, EDUCATION RESEARCH CENTER: Pleasure to be here.
DOBBS: It is absolutely, as we reported, disgusting what public education is doing. The public education that's supposed to be the great equalizer in this society, which is built on equality and opportunity, and it's a travesty. Are you shocked by these results that you've produced?
SWANSON: Well, you know, Lou, I've been doing this research for a couple years now. And certainly, there's always surprises here. The graduation rates overall are much lower than many people expect. I think the situation is not helped by the fact that in many cases, the numbers that have the highest visibility, the numbers that are produced by the states themselves, are often misleading for one reason or another.
Underneath that overall national number, though, I think is the real story. We have a 25 percent black/white graduation gap in this country, similar patterns for whites and Latinos. Across the nation, state graduation rates range anywhere from 82.5 percent or so to almost 52 percent. So there's tremendous disparities in this country.
DOBBS: The tremendous disparities -- and Christopher, as you know, there are disparities in the reports, the state education departments, the local school districts. And you know, frankly, forgive me for putting it this way, this isn't rocket science. We should have a much clearer statement to the American people from the state departments of education. I've talked with the state, for example, the California Department of Education superintendent.
Point blank, their numbers are a lie. The Harvard study two years ago showing that those dropout rates were almost double what they were showing. I mean, how can -- in education of all things, how is such unconscionable work product tolerated?
SWANSON: Right, yes, Lou, it's not rocket science, but it is actually more difficult than it may seem at first. I was actually part of that Harvard study a couple of years ago.
DOBBS: Right.
SWANSON: And in fact, it's something very new for most states. They're not necessarily intentionally inflating their numbers, but one of the issue that we have with states -- many states using dropout data actually to indirectly calculate their graduation rate.
Dropouts are just very difficult to document accurately and thoroughly. And so if states are relying on the dropout numbers as a way to get a hold of their graduation rates, they're going to tend to inflate their numbers. And unfortunately, most states are using a method that does something along those lines.
DOBBS: Well, I wasn't accusing anyone of malfeasance here other than the fact that they're not educating our students. I was talking about simply the ability to create an accurate report from a group of educators and educational professionals.
The idea that taxpayer money is going to -- this treasure -- I don't know about you, Christopher, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for public education and great public education. It's too important to our society to continue to fail a generation of Americans. Why is it so difficult for people to grab hold of the fact we don't have another seven years to wait for No Child Left Behind? We don't have time to tolerate the nonsense from teachers unions or the incompetent administrators or only one-tenth of our teachers who are trained in the subjects they're teaching?
SWANSON: Right. I think there's some good news and there's some bad news here. The good news is that No Child Left Behind for the first time does require states to hold schools and school districts accountable for their graduation rates. We're also supposed to take a close look at the performance of subgroups, so all students are supposed to count.
The bad news here is that the implementation, the way states have gone about trying to live up to the spirit of the law has actually fallen behind. In most states, states are allowed to set their goals for graduation rates, decide how much progress a school is supposed to make from one year to the next to continue to make progress under the law. And unfortunately, the standards are often low in many states. And in most states, it's OK just to be making some amount of progress.
DOBBS: And you know what? That just isn't the American way, is it? I mean, we've had our -- I mean, we've got enough problems in this country. But to sit here and to look at half of Hispanic students in this country, just about half of black students in this country not graduating from high school? I mean, come on! This is -- I mean, you're putting a -- you might as well be driving a stake in their hearts.
SWANSON: Right. This is a very serious issue. And I think you're putting together two very important pieces of the problem. We have very low graduation rates, say, for Latinos, which are a growing part of our population. In some states, this is an issue that they're facing right now. California is a state that has a very large and growing Latino population.
Latino students are falling behind there. But that's also a state that's taking the issue more seriously, I think, than is the case in many other places. Los Angeles school district is one of the districts we profile in some of our statistics. It's not doing very well, a graduation rate below 50 percent. But it's high on the radar screen out there.
DOBBS: Well, Christopher, all I can say is bless you, your organization for doing the study. But man, light a fire under somebody. I mean, we're talking about people here. And it's critical. I mean, these are the people we should be investing in. We're spending money, but we're not doing very well by them in terms of our educational leadership. Are you hopeful this can be turned around quickly?
SWANSON: Well, you know, this is a big problem. And you can't turn a ship around like this overnight. What we do hope to do with our report is get the information out there that can motivate the issue, to let people see the seriousness of the problem and where it exists, and hopefully people are getting a closer look at the problem today.
DOBBS: Well, Chris Swanson, we thank you for being here. Thank you for the important work. And come back soon, because we're going to continue to examine a public educational system that should be as it once was, a cornerstone of this country. Thank you very much.
SWANSON: You're welcome. Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, Senator John Cornyn demanding that employers finally be punished for hiring illegal aliens in this country. He joins us.
And President Bush is in Vienna, Austria this evening. He's meeting with our allies in the nuclear confrontations with Iran and North Korea. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: On Capitol Hill tonight, several senators are demanding immigration officials finally respect the rule of law and punish employers for their hiring of illegal alien worker. As Congress fails to agree on new immigration law, some senators are actually saying the immigration laws already on the books are being completely ignored. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Federal immigration officials in recent weeks have conducted a series of raids on companies, but for years employers have gotten away with illegal hiring with no repercussions, a problem acknowledged by the Department of Homeland Security in a congressional hearing.
STEWART BAKER, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: There are employers who are using the same Social Security number over and over again for dozens of employees. We need to know who those employers are because they obviously ought to be at the top of our list for investigation.
SYLVESTER: The Social Security Administration sends letters to companies when workers' Social Security numbers do not match. But there are legal restrictions that prohibit information sharing.
JULIE MYERS, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: We have such limited access to the data. It's on a very limited case by case, we have to petition on each particular case.
SYLVESTER: Senators Jon Kyl, Jeff Sessions and John Cornyn are looking to close this loophole and push for more enforcement resources. There are 1.1 million people who cross the border illegally, but only 20,000 detention beds.
There are 5,600 immigration agents, but only 65 devoted full time to worksite enforcement. The senators say Congress is facing a credibility problem. The federal government has not worked out many basic enforcement questions. Should the burden for employment verification be on the employer or the government? How do you ensure Social Security cards cannot be tamper proof?
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: We cannot repeat the mistake of 1986. You cannot rely on the same kind of documents and expect to get a different result. There must be a governmental-issued document that verifies employment eligibility or this system will not work.
SYLVESTER: The White House is backing a tamper proof Social Security card, but under the current proposal, it would not include biometric data or even a photograph.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And they will take at least 18 months to get an employer verification system up and running. The senators are very concerned that the American people are being duped. Lots of promises for endorsement, but when you look closer, it's all show and no action. They worry just as in 1986, we'll end up with a system that gives amnesty to millions, but does not close off the jobs magnet. Lou?
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Senator John Cornyn chaired that Capitol hearing on workplace enforcement about which Lisa just reported. Senator Cornyn says, "We cannot control illegal immigration if we cannot stop illegal employment." Senator John Cornyn joins us tonight from Capitol Hill. Good to have you with us.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Senator, how did it go? Your senators, are they responsive to this idea?
CORNYN: Well, I think there was only about an hour debate during the Senate immigration bill on this issue, the worksite verification and sanctions against employers who cheat. And this is the lynch pin. If we don't get this right, then really we're not going to be able to fix our broken immigration system. Because 45 percent of the illegal immigration occurs from people who enter legally but overstay, and they're the ones who we can only catch at the worksite because we can't catch them at the border.
DOBBS: Senator, I want our audience to be able to see what you said in your statement, reading now. "Unfortunately, the Senate has conducted almost no open debate regarding the new employment verification system. Not a single amendment was debated or voted on during the Judiciary Committee mark-up and less than an hour of Senate floor time was devoted to the issue."
How in the world are -- and I should point out to everyone, Senator Cornyn voted against the amnesty bill the Senate passed. But how in the world is anyone to take the U.S. Senate seriously when it pushes through a piece of legislation that is -- should be an embarrassment to everyone associated with it?
CORNYN: Well, that's the very reason why even though the bill has passed out of the Senate over my objection, we, I think, can still try to do our best to educate the American people, as well as members of Congress about what's actually in the bill.
We have the administration coming up with various proposals which they haven't asked for an appropriation for. They haven't been able to hire the people or put into place -- I mean, they said at minimum, it's going to take 18 months even if we had the political will to do these things like border security and worksite verification.
And I think the people of America are asking them, well, why aren't we doing it now? Why are we waiting to pass another bill to do things we already know should be done in order to make our country more secure?
DOBBS: You would think -- I think the American people are well ahead, if I may say, of the U.S. Senate on this issue. And I don't know how many of your colleagues you can bring along. But let me ask you this. If it turns out, as our Andrea Koppel reported, that Dennis Hastert, the speaker of the House, has asked for hearings on illegal immigration and the Senate legislation, at least on the issue, what's your reaction?
CORNYN: Well, I think more hearings are certainly called for. I don't have any problem with that at all. I think the more people learn about what's in this bill, the more they learn about the subject, the better off we'll be in the long run because then we'll be able to pass legislation that reflects America's values and America's interests. And that's what ought to be paramount in our consideration.
DOBBS: Well, you know what I think? If I may offer, Senator, when you said that the more people know, it looks to me like the first people that ought to try to figure out what's in that bill are the U.S. Senate. Don't you agree?
CORNYN: Well, we did our best during the course of two weeks debate. We offered a number of amendments which I think did wake a lot of people up. But with your help and the help of a lot of other people, I'm sure that America will know what's in this, and their senators will hear from them.
DOBBS: Well we're sure going to try to pay attention as best we can. We thank you for your efforts and as you move forward on this issue and as always, good talking with you, Senator John Cornyn.
CORNYN: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Residents of Houston, Texas tonight have begun a petition drive to end their city's designation as a sanctuary for illegal aliens. Those sanctuary opponents need 20,000 signatures to place that issue on the November ballot. They say Houston's sanctuary designation is preventing local police from asking criminals about their immigration status. They say it endangers Houston residents. Houston has had a sanctuary policy on the books since 1992.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. Would you favor congressional action on border security now and delaying for one or two years any further discussion of illegal immigration reform? Yes or no. Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming right up.
And next, the Bush administration and the U.S. Senate suffering something of a setback on amnesty. I'll be talking about that issue and a number of others with three of the country's most popular talk show hosts here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf, what you are working on?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. A grizzly discovery in Iraq. The bodies of two missing American soldiers found booby-trapped and mutilated. We'll have the very latest.
Plus military muscle flexing, the U.S. begins war games in the Pacific as concerns over North Korea heighten.
And what do you get when you rat out the mastermind of the 9/11 plot? It's just one shocking anecdote the author Ron Suskind reveals as he takes us inside al Qaeda and the Bush White House. Also, Angelina Jolie on a mission. She's raising world awareness of the plight of refugees, and sharing some details on the birth of her daughter. It's a CNN exclusive.
All that coming up at the top of the hour in THE SITUATION ROOM -- Lou.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it. Thank you, Wolf.
Joining me now, Lionel, who's a radio talk show with WOR in New York; Bob Pickett with KISS-FM in New York; and Paul Crespo, WQBA Univision Radio from Miami. Good to have you all with us.
Paul, let's turn to you first. The House wants immigration hearings. What do you think?
PAUL CRESPO, WQBA UNIVISION RADIO MIAMI: I think it's a good idea. I think the American people need to get this topic out there in the open and discuss it fully, because they're trying to ram through a lot of things in the Senate, especially that a lot of people didn't really understand very well.
DOBBS: Right.
CRESPO: And as you said in couple of earlier segments, a lot of those thing were being sort of sugar-coated and sold without any real substance behind it. I think we need to talk about it a lot more.
DOBBS: All right. I want to turn to a poll now, Bob Pickett. We did here at CNN a poll about who you would definitely not vote for in 2008. And if we've got that poll, I'd like to just show the results.
Leading the way, Al Gore, 48 percent said they won't vote for him. Forty-seven say no to Hillary Clinton, no to John Kerry. Thirty-four percent John McCain, Rudy Giuliani is just now getting there at 30 percent. I guess it may be early in his ambition.
BOB PICKETT, KISS-FM NEW YORK: Probably and foretelling as well, because I think as far as the African-American community is concerned, Giuliani is probably last on their totem pole.
DOBBS: Really?
PICKETT: I'm very surprised at the results at the top of that, that Al Gore and Hillary Clinton -- although I think people are beginning to understand and appreciate that they may not necessarily be the most viable candidates, given their posturing, their liberal politics and so forth, and the way this country is probably shifting to more concerns involving the middle class.
The liberal wing of the Democratic Party gives a lot of lip service to helping out its core base. And I think that core base is now beginning to see that perhaps all the lip service that we've been getting over the last 40 or 50 years has not resulted in any positive improvement in the African-American community. DOBBS: You mean, they're lying to all of us?
PICKETT: Well, they're lying to a lot of us.
DOBBS: Lionel?
LIONEL, WOR NEW YORK: Lou, another great CNN poll. I just want to say right off the bat, there's only one name you left off, Harold Stassen.
Now, I don't know what this really frankly ...
DOBBS: But, you know, most of the people watching this program don't even know who Harold Stassen is. So, I'm impressed.
LIONEL: Frankly, most people watching this don't know who I am either or what the hell we're talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
LIONEL: I'm not sure what that means. The question I want to know is, OK, now that you've eliminated those whom you don't want, whom would you care for? And frankly, that would be the million dollar question.
DOBBS: And that narrows it down to about 300 million other folks.
LIONEL: Exactly.
DOBBS: The idea that Condoleezza Rice, our secretary of state, has said that it would be a provocation for North Korea to test fire this missile, what did you take away from that?
LIONEL: Absolutely nothing, Lou. Let's talk about what a provocation was. We had this fellow Saddam Hussein who had these mysterious aluminum tubes in trailers which turned out to hydrogen generators for aluminum tubes. That posed an immediate threat. Now, they said it was an imminent threat. He was part of the axis of evil.
I don't know how much more imminent Pyongyang can possibly be. If ever there was a case for somebody who posed an immediate, imminent threat and we're sitting back and now the president wants to threaten them with a security council vote? Ooh.
DOBBS: Paul Crespo?
CRESPO: Well, the problem is we missed our opportunity back in the 1990s when Bill Clinton was president and they didn't have nuclear weapons. And that sort of changed the whole ball game when the North Koreans actually have nuclear weapons now. It makes the whole diplomacy and military response a lot more difficult.
So I think one of the things we have to do with Iran, when we talk about Iran, is make sure that we deal with that issue before they manage to cross the red line and get the nuclear weapons, because that's one of the reasons we're having such a hard time with Korea now. We missed our window back in the '90s when Clinton negotiated it.
LIONEL: Always bring up Clinton. When in doubt, bring up Clinton.
CRESPO: Well, when we're still paying the price for his policies, you do have to bring him up. So -- and we're still paying the price. North Korea has nuclear weapons because Bill Clinton allowed him to get nuclear weapons, and that's part of the problem.
DOBBS: Well, is that ...
PICKETT: And I agree with him, too, as well. Bill Clinton probably led us to a sense of security with the agreements that he negotiated with North Korea. The reality is that the United States, in my community we call it selling a lot of wolf tickets, OK?
And the provocation term used by the secretary of state, I think, suggests that we're prepared to do more when, in fact, we're not prepared to do anything at all but sell and continue to sell wolf tickets and talk, talk, talk.
The real danger, Lionel, if I may, is with Iran. I think that we've got to do more than just talk, given the volatile situation in the Middle East.
DOBBS: You want to bomb them?
PICKETT: Well, not necessarily bomb them. But I think we need to engage in aggressive discussions with them to prevent them from getting that weapon.
(CROSSTALK)
LIONEL: Lou, this is revisionist history. This is bumper sticker, playbook, cookie cutter, soundbite conservative clap trap. Blame Clinton.
DOBBS: Clap trap?
LIONEL: I think Lionel disagrees with you.
(CROSSTALK)
CRESPO: That's a lot of rhetoric right there all on its own but I don't see a lot of substance.
LIONEL: We had this rather unstable person and we had him hemmed in and we were trying to make concessions.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Kim Jong Il, right?
LIONEL: No, I'm talking about kimchi, which is a Korean side dish. No, no, Kim Jong Il, right. So what happened is, so what did we do? So we went in and we basically threatened him. We put him in this axis of evil, made this paranoid zealot even more frightened.
DOBBS: I exculpate Bill Clinton, George Bush, everybody. What in the world should we be doing now? That's what I want to know.
CRESPO: Right, well, again, my problem is that, you know, when you have nuclear weapons, you're a lot harder to deal with than when you don't have nuclear weapons, and Bill Clinton allowed that to switch from not having nuclear to having nuclear weapons.
LIONEL: And don't forget Hillary.
CRESPO: North Korea is a lot more difficult threat now because they have nuclear weapons.
LIONEL: So what's the solution?
CRESPO: It's a lot harder to deal with them.
DOBBS: This is -- you know ...
CRESPO: One of the things Bush, this administration has done, which is very positive, is that they accelerated the missile defense system that hopefully will protect us from any kind of rogue missile attacks from North Korea and other terrorist states.
(CROSSTALK)
CRESPO: That's one of the things that this administration has done, which will hopefully keep us a lot safer that the previous administration also put on the back burners. So ...
LIONEL: Is this Star Wars?
(CROSSTALK)
CRESPO: So it's a missile defense system that's already proven itself.
LIONEL: You're kidding me.
CRESPO: It's already proven itself.
LIONEL: That's been just bumped by ...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Gentlemen, I've got to end it there. We're out of time.
CRESPO: It's already proven itself in the last several tests that happened ...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Paul, we ... PICKETT: I think the real danger, and again, I'm going to let you end it ...
DOBBS: Thank you.
PICKETT: ...is with Iran. Iran is the real danger. North Korea, not a problem. They're coming off of a lot of ...
DOBBS: You get the last word.
LIONEL: To my good friend Grepo (ph) in Miami, (SPEAKING IN SPANISH) with this stuff, I mean ...
(CROSSTALK)
CRESPO: Amigo, amigo, you need to get back on the program.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: We're all on the program and we appreciate you being here.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: We're all on the program, and we appreciate you being here. Paul Crespo, Lionel, Bob Pickett, thank gentlemen. Appreciate it.
CRESPO: Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead, we'll have more of your thoughts and the results of our poll tonight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of tonight poll. Seventy-six percent of you would favor congressional action on border security now and delaying for one to two years any further discussion of illegal immigration reform.
Taking a look at your thoughts, James in Washington: "Dear Mr. Dobbs, they were sick of being called the do-nothing Congress, so they did something. They voted themselves a pay raise."
Francis in Washington: "Dear Lou, our lawmakers just gave each other a nice raise. I just got a raise too, a whopping 28 cents per hour. Just an afterthought, I would be willing to give up my raise for the same health benefits our law makers have." A good trade.
And Jennifer in Oregon: "Lou, I think we should pay Congress like they want to pay teachers. Merit-based pay."
And Robert in Nevada: "I guess the boys on the Hill need a raise now that they can't count on Abramoff to fund their travels."
And Jean (ph) in Kansas: "Dear Lou, perhaps the following constitutional amendment should be considered. U.S. citizens are hereby elevated to the same level and guaranteed the same rights, privileged, immunities and benefits as illegal aliens.
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America."
We thank you for being with us tonight. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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