Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Uncle of Murdered Soldier Speaks Out; Bodies of Murdered Soldiers to Be Flown Home; Counterterrorism Expert Discusses Killings; Possible Da Vinci Painting Stirs Debate; Turbine to Save College Money

Aired June 21, 2006 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: The families of two U.S. soldiers just devastated by news that those soldiers have been murdered after being kidnapped by Iraqi insurgents on Friday. The bodies of Kristian Menchaca and Thomas Tucker will soon be returning to the United States.
This morning from Houston, we're talking to Mario Vasquez. He is the uncle of Kristian Manchaca.

Thank you for being with us, sir. We certainly appreciate it. Our condolences go to your entire family. Such terrible news, such sad news.

You know, we first started getting word from Iraqi press, actually, which seemed to kind of leak the information. And then the military sort of had to come around and confirm what was already being reported by the Iraqi officials. How did the family first learn that, in fact, Kristian, who everyone knew was kidnapped, had actually been killed?

MARIO VASQUEZ, UNCLE OF KRISTIAN MENCHACA: Well, we actually heard it on the media. We didn't hear it from any soldier or anybody from the government. We had to heard it from the TV like everybody else, which I was very devastated when we had learned it a different way than they had told us that we were going to know about it.

O'BRIEN: Gosh, it must be such a brutal thing. I know the military has said that they're going to continue to do DNA tests on both bodies. Have they told you how long those tests will take?

VASQUEZ: Well, they told us at 10:45 last night they have -- they were going to start the studies and that they would find out 24 hours after that. So that's really devastating, because we don't know if it's them or it's not them. You know, we were confused about it.

O'BRIEN: Yes, you still have a fair amount of uncertainty, I suppose. Is there a place for a plan right now about bringing Kristian's body back and what the plan will be for his burial?

VASQUEZ: Yes, my sister has decided they should cremate him and then send the ashes to Brownsville with his wife.

O'BRIEN: His wife is just 18 years old. Is that right? I mean, they got married in September right before he deployed to Iraq. VASQUEZ: Yes, ma'am, and I haven't even met her. You know, I haven't even -- I only saw her in the news. We were surprised that he had gotten married.

O'BRIEN: Right, right. I know it was sort of a quick secret wedding from the family. Tell me a little bit about this young man. I mean, we know a lot of the horrible circumstances of his death now but not much about his life.

VASQUEZ: He was a very quiet person. He only had a circle of family members that he played basketball with. And he grew up with my nieces and nephews. And he was a very family-oriented person. And he was the quiet type. And he was very gentle. And he liked to help anybody.

But he had said that he -- when he came back on the beginning of May, I took him to lunch, and he said that he had become a man going to the Army. That he was ready.

O'BRIEN: He also said, if I'm not mistaken, that, you know, he would be a hero. Was that right? Is that what he told you?

VASQUEZ: He told me that "Uncle Mario, don't worry. I'm going to come back as a hero." But I didn't know he was going to come back this way, because he was a hero in my eyes.

O'BRIEN: I think he's a hero in a lot of people's eyes. Has the military spoken to you about any of the details or the circumstances?

VASQUEZ: I called -- I called about what happened, no. They have told me sister that she has to -- they have to put the details together before they inform her. But she said she didn't want to hear about it. She just wanted her son back. And that the military is keeping us posted. There's a soldier -- a sergeant at her house keeping her posted of every detail, that is what's happening with the bodies.

O'BRIEN: There have been some very horrific details about the condition of both bodies. Is that something you want to know or would you prefer, like your sister, to just not know?

VASQUEZ: Even if you don't want to know, you see everything on the news. And they keep detailing stuff that they don't even know themselves. They just keep detailing how the bodies were found and all that information. And sometimes I just turn off the TV, because it's too much information for us. But it hit close to home to hear about it.

O'BRIEN: Mario Vasquez, thank you for talking with us this morning. We're so sorry for you. What a young man; what a special young man. Our hearts just -- just break for you today.

VASQUEZ: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: We appreciate you talking with us.

VASQUEZ: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: John.

JOHN ROBERTS, CO-HOST: A terrible tragedy. And we have more details now from Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, who joins us live. More details on when the bodies may be arriving back here in the U.S. mainland -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, military sources have just confirmed to CNN that the remains of privates Menchaca and Tucker are now expected to be returned to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware very late this evening. It may depend a bit on flight schedules, but at the moment they expect the remains to come back to Dover some time perhaps before midnight tonight.

And they will conduct the medical exams that they conduct for all those who have perished on the battlefield. The same medical exams will be conducted so that all of the information is known to the military. And they can give any information to the families that they wish to receive.

What we also want to add in is that military sources this morning have told us they are extraordinarily sensitive, as is the news media, to the details surrounding this incident. The military is very committed, they tell us, to making sure that the families know, if they wish to, any of the specific details surrounding this incident. The military says they will not be the ones to put out the details. There is a good deal of information circulating about this very upsetting incident. But they will stick to their very rigid policy. All information will go to the family first.

And the military, because of their concern about family sensitivity and family privacy issues, will not be making public statements about some of these details that are becoming known.

But again, the remains of privates Menchaca and Tucker now on their way back to the United States. We are told on the way to Dover Air Force Base, landing later this evening. Once those tests are completed then, of course, the families will be getting the remains of their loved ones -- John.

ROBERTS: And as the notification process didn't go exactly according to plan the first time out, I'm sure that the Pentagon will take extra steps to make sure this time it does. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thanks very much.

As Soledad mentioned, there is evidence that the two U.S. soldiers who were kidnapped and killed by Iraqi insurgents were mutilated by their captors. The bodies, as we've said, of Kristian Menchaca and Tucker are coming back tonight. They were said to be booby-trapped in an effort to kill those who came to retrieve their remains.

Jeff Beatty is counterterrorism expert who has worked for the CIA and the FBI. He was also a member of Delta Force. He joins us now from Boston. Jeff Beatty, why do you think that the insurgents killed the soldiers pretty quickly after they were kidnapped, as opposed to try to hold them as hostages, put out videos, exploit them as tools of propaganda?

JEFF BEATTY, ANTI-TERRORISM SPECIALIST: John, first of all, I'd like to extend my sympathies also to the families. It is absolutely tragic and particularly this kind of brutal death. Any death is tragic, but this is particularly hard.

Also to Mr. Vasquez and other family members, remember that the responsibility that the military has. You mentioned these booby- trapped bodies. The military saw the bodies some hours in advance. Because they were mutilated, were not able to get close enough, due to the booby-traps, to identify them positively.

And the military has a heavier responsibility than perhaps the Iraqi media, who could suppose that this were these two privates. So I hope we're not too harsh on the military in wanting to be sure and not giving some sort of false notification to families that a loved one has been identified when they have not. So the booby-trap certainly complicated the issue for them.

Quickly to your point about why were these individuals killed as opposed to not taken hostage. Some people say that the hostage-taking process -- Daniel Pearl, we all remember the horrible ordeal with him which ended in his beheading -- gives terrorists more currency than perhaps to allow someone to be just killed instantly on the battlefield or shortly on the battlefield.

And John, my assessment of this is simply that the terrorists will always try to do the most damaging operation that they can against us. In this case, I believe that the terrorists were concerned, based upon the Zarqawi death and other recent changes in their fortune, that a rescue effort was a real possibility. There were over 8,000 troops out there looking for these two privates. And that if the United States had conducted a successful rescue effort, that would have been a big win for the Americans and another loss in a series of losses recently for the terrorists.

So I believe they decided to cut their losses and get as much bang for their buck as they could. And not take the chance of the Americans having a successful rescue and therefore executing these prisoners.

ROBERTS: Yes, I talked with Major General William Caldwell from Baghdad last night. He was suggesting that the terrorists were probably feeling like they were under a lot of pressure, because as you said the 8,000 military personnel who were out there searching.

Why the kidnapping in the first place? Do you think was this revenge for the Zarqawi killing? Or was this the new leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Ayyub al-Masri, making good on his pledge to continue the killings, continue the beheadings?

BETTY: I think two things we need to look at, John. First of all, the enemy always sends out patrols. We send out patrols to try to capture prisoners to get information about what the enemy is doing. They may have tried to do the same thing, tortured these individuals to learn about our plans, what are we doing.

But if we look at how these individuals were taken captive, it was actually a pretty clever operation on our enemy's part. They toyed with the three Humvees that were at the checkpoint. Two of them went out after the enemy to try to capture them, leaving the one Humvee behind with three soldiers. These three soldiers then were able to be overcome by a small Iraqi force that would not have been able to take on the section, the three Humvees with all their armament and soldiers.

So we were outfoxed a little bit here. I think that everyone should understand that that lesson learned will be quickly distributed throughout the armed forces. And you won't see people leaving, being pulled away to chase a red herring and leaving exposed a position like they did in this case.

ROBERTS: Right. Major General Caldwell said that they would definitely be doing a review of the entire incident.

But a little piece of news here. He also disputed reports that there were -- there was more than one vehicle there at the checkpoint. He said to the best of his knowledge there was only one Humvee that was ever there. So obviously, we'll be looking into this more.

Counterterrorism expert Jeff Beatty, thanks for being with us.

And just in the interest of full disclosure, not that it had an impact on this interview, we need to mention that you're running as a Republican for the 10th Congressional district in Massachusetts. Jeff, thanks very much -- Soledad.

BEATTY: Thank you, John.

O'BRIEN: Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning.

Hello, Andy. Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you, too.

Let's go down to Wall Street and see what is happening down there. There is the big board. And stocks are trading up this hour; 44 points the Dow Jones industrials are up. Strong earnings from Morgan Stanley no doubt helping out there.

A couple of business stories connected to Audrey Hepburn to tell you about this morning. First of all let's start with Tiffany. The company is moving back down to its birthplace, opening a new store on Wall Street, which makes sense, because that's where the money is.

ROBERTS: Not closing Fifth Avenue.

SERWER: Not closing Fifth Avenue. You're right. It's another store in Manhattan, John. And Tiffany actually, its first store was down on Wall Street in 1837.

This store, 7,600 square feet, 35-foot ceilings. That's 10 foot higher, 10 feet higher than the store on Fifth Avenue. Those are very high ceilings.

O'BRIEN: That's really high. Yes.

SERWER: And of course the connection to Audrey Hepburn is...

ROBERTS: "Breakfast at Tiffany's".

SERWER: "Breakfast at Tiffany's", the 1961 movie.

Now onto another Audrey Hepburn business-related story. And there are not a lot of those.

O'BRIEN: But two today.

SERWER: Two today, this having to do with Vespa, the scooter. This company is -- this brand is owned by the Piaggio, the Italian company. Sixty years old this year. And they're going to be going public. We told you about this a couple of weeks ago, but now they've set a date: July 11.

And of course, the Audrey Hepburn movie there is...

ROBERTS: "La Dolce Vita".

SERWER: "Roman Holiday".

ROBERTS: I'm sorry. I was kidding.

SERWER: "Roman Holiday". You were kidding. "Roman Holiday".

ROBERTS: Nothing that's more Italian than a Vespa in front of the Coliseum.

SERWER: Yes, that is looking good. And we are waiting for Soledad to go out and get one.

O'BRIEN: So what does a Vespa cost? Will you look that up?

SERWER: John, you know this.

ROBERTS: I think they're in the high $3,000 area.

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Wouldn't a Vespa be great to zip around Manhattan?

SERWER: We would love to see you.

O'BRIEN: To get you...

SERWER: We would love to see you.

O'BRIEN: Where do I put the kids?

ROBERTS: Leave them at home. Tell them to meet that taxi cab.

O'BRIEN: Oh, taxi cab, shmaxi cab.

ROBERTS: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right, Andy. Anything else?

SERWER: No, that's it.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you.

ROBERTS: They wheeled her into NYU Medical Center.

SERWER: Oh, come on.

O'BRIEN: For the best medical care in the country.

We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Forty-seven minutes after the hour now, an update on that prison shooting story in Florida. Three people shot at a federal prison in Tallahassee. CNN has learned that the shooting was between prison personnel and did not involve inmates.

The shooter has been captured, in fact. The shooter was one of the victims, and all three victims have been taken to a hospital. The FBI will have more information on this at a news conference coming up at 10 a.m. -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Well, the movie version of "The Da Vinci Code" may be a box office disappointment to some degree. Another Da Vinci mystery is drawing record crowds in Portland, Maine. A painting in the Portland Museum of Art could be a study of Da Vinci's most famous work, the Mona Lisa. Or maybe not.

AMERICAN MORNING's Alina Cho is here to explain.

Good morning.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: It's a mystery.

CHO: It is, and either way it's causing quite a stir, you know. No one knows for sure if the painting hanging in the Portland Museum of Art is a real Leonardo Da Vinci or just a copy. Either way, it's generating lots of interest and even more debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHO (voice-over): Some say the eyes have it. In this case, the key to unlocking the mystery of the two Mona Lisas could be the smile. The original Mona Lisa, which hangs in the Louvre in Paris, is smiling. This Mona Lisa in Portland, Maine, definitely is not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I like it better without the smile, strangely enough.

CHO: The famous painting by Leonardo Da Vinci has had a renaissance of sorts, thanks to the blockbuster film "The Da Vinci Code".

TOM HANKS, ACTOR: See, she appears larger from the left than on the right.

CHO: Playing on the popularity of the movie, the Portland Museum of Art dusted off and put on display what it believes is an unfinished study of the Mona Lisa painted by the master himself. It bears a striking resemblance to the original, and people are flocking to see it. People like Sissy Lindeman (ph), who says she believes this is the real deal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has that feeling.

CHO: Some experts agree. A Harvard university study concluded the Portland painting is of the same period as the original. Others believe brush strokes show it was done by a left-handed artist like Leonardo.

Then there's the smile. Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa for a man who wanted a portrait of his wife. But the director of the Portland Museum says the woman depicted in the original would have disapproved. He says she would have preferred the Mona Lisa minus the smile.

DANIEL O'LEARY, DIRECTOR, PORTLAND MUSEUM OF ART: It is a sweeter and it is a gentler, more feminized celebration of a woman really at the height of her attractiveness. This is the girl you would take home to Mom. The other woman is -- is a mysterious creature.

CHO: Still many believe the Portland painting is nothing more than a fourth-rate copy. James Beck is an art history professor at Columbia University and an expert in Italian art.

JAMES BECK, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Well, I suppose there's a chance that it's original, as there's a chance that the moon is made of cheese.

CHO: Beck says the slight smile in the original is Leonardo's signature, that the hands, which he says the artist painted so magnificently, are not the same in the Portland version.

Finally, he says there is no way to analyze when the painting was made.

Among the Picassos, Cezannes and Magrittes in Portland, patrons of the art say, copy or not...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's still a very nice painting. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: Well, in case you're wondering how this Mona Lisa ended up in Portland, Main, of all places, here's the story. It was given to the museum back in 1983 by a wealthy businessman who just happened to spend his summers in Maine. He acquired the painting, as the story goes, from a European owner back in the 1960s.

This Mona Lisa is not on permanent display at the museum, because the Portland museum primarily showcases more modern art. Now having said that, it be on view until Labor Day, and already it is drawing big crowds, Soledad. In fact, the museum had record attendance for the month of May.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to guess it would go on past Labor Day. That's not a giant museum in Portland.

CHO: No, it's not. It's not. It's a very small museum and big crowds there.

O'BRIEN: So you know, we have one side saying it's -- the chance of it being real is the same chance...

CHO: A chance.

O'BRIEN: ... as the moon being made of cheese. And others saying that this is the real deal. What does that mean it's worth, then?

CHO: Well, it's impossible to know if it is a Leonardo Da Vinci. But having said that, if it is ever proven that it is, the director of the Portland Museum of Art says it would be worth half, maybe three quarters of the value of the original. And the original Mona Lisa, by the way, is estimated to be worth about $500 million. So you could imagine what this would mean to the Portland Museum of Art.

O'BRIEN: That would be -- that would be a bigger museum, probably, at the end of the day.

CHO: It certainly would.

O'BRIEN: If they ever wanted to sell it and if they could prove that Leonardo Da Vinci really did it.

CHO: That's right.

O'BRIEN: Great story.

CHO: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Thanks, Alina.

We're going to take a short break. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROBERTS: Rising oil prices are making alternative sources of energy far more attractive. And for some it's a wind-win proposition. This week a college in Massachusetts will begin generating its own form of renewable energy. The story now from AMERICAN MORNING's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a windfall on campus. Quite literally. The Massachusetts Maritime Academy, a state college, will harness the wind, and in turn, save money.

RICHARD GURNON, PRESIDENT, MASSACHUSETTS MARITIME ACADEMY: We expect that this will save us and the taxpayers of Massachusetts in excess of $300,000 each and every year for the 20-year life span of the turbine.

LOTHIAN: President Richard Gurdon says as energy prices keep squeezing the college's budget, a new turbine makes sense, because the campus is situated along the water, where there's always plenty of wind.

GURNON: We could take advantage of the wind that was cursed for so many years.

LOTHIAN (on camera): When the wind is blowing, this one turbine will be able to supply enough electricity to power the entire college campus.

PAUL O'KEEFE, CHIEF ENGINEER, MASSACHUSETTS MARITIME ACADEMY: From the rotor into the gear box.

(voice-over) And engineer Paul O'Keefe says what is left over will be sold back to the local electric company, generating about $50,000 a year.

O'KEEFE: The metering that's in place can actually see when the power is going in the reverse direction.

LOTHIAN: This is becoming a trend at colleges seeking relief from high energy costs. Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota, bought and installed this turbine two years ago. All the power it generates is sold to the local electric company, and the money just about covers their monthly utility bill.

The towering turbine has also become a teaching tool, here and in Massachusetts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten degrees to the left, 45 to the right.

LOTHIAN: The turbine will be a centerpiece of the Maritime's engineering program.

GURNON: We knew that if we were going to teach renewable energy, we had to have something to show them, something that they could touch, something that they could work on and something that they could study.

LOTHIAN: So this machine with all its internal components will bring a classroom lecture to life.

CAPT. BRADLEY LIMA, DEAN, MASSACHUSETTS MARITIME ACADEMY: The students will understand the concept behind the turbine blade turning and turning that into power.

LOTHIAN: Tapping into the power of the wind, to offer a lesson in the classroom and put money in the bank.

Dan Lothian, CNN, Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: The town of Hull, Massachusetts, has two wind turbines, projected to save the town more than $500,000,000 in energy costs every year. A short break and we're back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Guess what? We're out of time. Parting is such sweet sorrow.

ROBERTS: Isn't it, though?

O'BRIEN: Yes, it is.

ROBERTS: But we'll be back here again to do it all again tomorrow.

O'BRIEN: Yes, we will. Yes, we will. Daryn Kagan is at the CNN Center this morning.

Hey, Daryn.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com