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CNN Live Today

Seven Americans Indicted for Terror Plot

Aired June 23, 2006 - 10:58   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has seen the terror indictments. She joins us live now from Washington D.C.
Jeanne, good morning.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi. You just heard that this plot was more aspirational than operational. That appears to be the case according to what we heard at this press conference triggered when the man who's said to be the leader of this group, by the name of Narseal Batiste (ph) made public comments disclosing his intent to stage an attack. After that, there were a series of meetings with an information who this group believes was a member of al Qaeda.

The attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, talked about some of the chilling language that was used in some of those conversations. Let's listen.

OK, apparently, we do not have that piece of sound -- oh, here we go. They say we do have it now. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO GONZALES, U.S. ATTY. GEN.: These individuals wish to wage a, quote, "full-ground war against the United States." That quote is from the investigation of these individuals, who also allegedly stated the desire to, quote, "kill all devils we can." They hoped for their attacks to be, quote, "Just as good or greater than 9/11."

The defendants, five American citizens, one legal permanent resident, and one Haitian national in the United States illegally, are expected to make appearances at U.S. district court in Miami today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: Now, all of these individuals, according to the indictment and according to that press conference, swore allegiance to al Qaeda, and one of the questions is who are these people? You heard a little bit about their nationality there, but when asked about the group, all we were told is that they were people who did not believe that the government of the United States had authority over them.

No more details. People at the press conference indicated, as you've have said, Daryn, we'll hear more out of Miami later today.

KAGAN: Yes, we look forward to hearing that. Jeanne, thank you. Jeanne Meserve in Washington, D.C.

Let's talk a little bit more about the indictments and what we just heard at the news conference with Clark Kent Irvin rejoining us this hour.

Clark, did you hear anything in the news conference of particular interest to you?

CLARK KENT ERVIN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, there were a couple of things that jumped out at me, Daryn. One thing is the point that Jeanne was just making, and that is that this group felt that the United States government did not have legal authority over it.

What's troubling about is that there are a number of groups around the country that feel that way and that have felt that way for a long time. I actually worked in Texas state government at the same time that the attorney general did, and I remember there was a group in Texas that thought the income tax was illegitimate and wanted to be a separate entity as a result of that.

If al Qaeda were to make common cause with groups like that, that are opposed to the United States government for other reasons, with groups that are anti-Semitic, for example, then that would amplify the ranks of al Qaeda. That would be able to recruit people who don't fit the profile that were generally associated with terrorists. So it's a real cause for concern.

The second thing is we learned that the community was very alert there, and that also was a factor in foiling this plot. And you know, people wonder what they can do to protect themselves from terrorists.

The point that Jerry was making earlier, it's important when you see suspicious activity, to point that out to law enforcement. They can be the eyes, and should be the eyes and ears of law enforcement in the intelligence community, but obviously can't be everywhere at all times.

KAGAN: Clark, some people in the wake of the story making a lot of homegrown terrorism, but we've known that in this country for a long time. Just go no father than Timothy McVeigh.

ERVIN: Well, that's exactly right. You know, when this story broke yesterday, last night the term domestic terrorism was used to describe it. That's a moniker that I associate with the Timothy McVeighs. These are people who are not -- they're not foreigners, certainly, and they also do not focus on foreign policy type issues, for want of a better term.

But home-grown terrorists, these are people who live in this country. These are Americans, and as I say, a common cause can be made against people who have an ideological opposition against the United States for foreign policy reasons, and home-grown people in the United States who have opposition to the United States for other reasons.

KAGAN: These charges against these seven men are serious, and it doesn't seem to matter that they didn't appear to have the means or even the material or equipment to carry out these things that they were talking about.

ERVIN: Well, that's right. The attorney general is very careful to say that, you know, it's a judgment call as to exactly when the government steps in to foil these plots.

On the one hand, they don't want to do it too early, because they want to learn as much as they possibly can about the particulars so that they can roll up everybody ideally who's a part of this plot and learn as much as possible. On the other hand, they can't wait too late because, of course, the last thing we want is for an actual terror attack to occur. So based on what we know right now, they did the right thing at the right time.

KAGAN: Clark Kent Irvin, thanks for the additional minutes of your time.

Now we do expect to hear from the U.S. attorney's office in Miami at the bottom of the hour, in about 27 minutes. And you'll see that live here on CNN. As we await that, let's check in in South Florida. Our correspondent, Susan Candiotti, covering that part of the story.

Susan, good morning.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

And importantly, one of the things they said we would learn at the press conference here in Miami at the U.S. attorney's office is the possible motive for why they wanted to carry out the attack. You heard the U.S. attorney general, Mr. Gonzales, say that we would find out more about that when this news conference starts, but in the meantime, let's try to break down a little bit more about how this allegedly went down.

This was set up, apparently, as a sting, the government introducing an informant into this group, a group that said that it wanted to get money and pledged an oath of allegiance to al Qaeda.

So here are a couple of points we wanted to make and include as to what happened and when, according to the indictment. Back in December of last year, the alleged leader of this group gave someone he thought, but turned out to be a government informant, thought to be a representative of al Qaeda a list, a list of things he wanted to buy, including shoe sizes to buy military boots for his soldiers, as he put it. This is directly from the indictment.

He also wanted radios, binoculars, bullet-proof vests, firearms, vehicles, and they asked for $50,000 cash they said that would be used to help a plot to blow up the Sears Tower. Now, whether they actually got that money, there's no reference to that in the indictment.

Now, in February of this year, this group allegedly asked for training for five -- quote, unquote -- "soldiers" to carry out a full ground war, as they put it, to, quote "kill all the devils we can." And they suggested that what they planned to do would be, quote, "just as good or greater than September 11." And they were going to start with a plot to destroy the Sears Tower.

Now, in March of this year, according to the indictment, the group gave this government agent that they thought to be a member of al Qaeda, photographs of possible targets that they planned to blow up. What were those targets? Well, reportedly, or according to the indictment, they were the federal courthouse here in Miami, the federal detention center located right next door, FBI headquarters, as well as the Miami Police Department. Of course, we already mentioned the Sears Tower. They also said during that time frame and, apparently, swore an oath to al Qaeda.

In May of this year they met, again, with this representative both here and in the Florida Keys and said that they were experiencing unspecified delays, yet according to the charges, wanted to continue to work with al Qaeda and carry out their eventual mission.

So again, we will be receiving, we understand, individual photographs of these people who have been charged. We'll also be appearing at an initial court appearance about 1:30 this morning.

So we raised the question, they had no money. They had no independent means, but apparently they had desire, says the FBI, says the Justice Department, to want to carry out an attack.

Why did they stop it when they did? Well, Attorney General Gonzales says the U.S. government, quote, "had an obligation -- has an obligation to protect Americans from attack" -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. Susan, thank you. I do want to tell our viewers at home if they're interested in looking at the indictment for themselves, just go to CNN.com, and the whole thing is posted there, and you can read it for yourself.

Meanwhile, there's this warehouse in a part of Miami that appears to be the center of the alleged plot, where some of the men who were arrested were living. That's where we find our John Zarrella -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, that's exactly right.

This is the scene of the crime, so to speak. This is where the federal agents descended yesterday afternoon about 2 p.m., came in about 20 federal agents, cordoned off the entire area; went inside, broke inside this building. And apparently from what the neighbors in the area told us, didn't really find anyone inside.

They came out. They held up what amounted to mug shots of the men they were looking for, asked the neighbors in the area if they had seen these men, and then apparently managed to find them somewhere else in this Liberty City neighborhood in Miami.

Now, in the indictment, as Susan mentioned, this warehouse facility actually played a pretty prominent role. It was on March 16 that they met here with this alleged al Qaeda representative who, of course, was not, was an informant. And it was at that time that they hatched their plot to blow up five FBI buildings, including the FBI offices in the North Miami Beach area here. And it was at that meeting that they allegedly, these seven men, pledged their allegiance to al Qaeda.

At another meeting about 10, 12 days later, around the 26th of March, they met again here at this warehouse, and you can see there are no windows on this building, front, back, or side, totally windowless. Met with the man again. And at this point actually gave him photographs and videos of selected targets, reported targets here in Miami, including the FBI building, and as Susan mentioned, the federal building, the federal detention center, Miami police headquarters. Those were things turned over to who they thought was an al Qaeda operative.

So all of this took place behind -- behind me here in this building in the month of March, and it is actually, Daryn, interesting because they were hiding in plain sight because this is a building that sits on a main thoroughfare here in Miami. You -- you can see pretty much how it is located, and, again, it just -- a lot of activity here, people coming and going. A main street that it sits on. But it is completely closed. You can't see inside the building at all.

And we did manage, Daryn, to talk with one individual late last night who claimed to be a member of the organization, and he insisted that they were not terrorists, they were not connected to al Qaeda, and that this was their temple is the way he put it, the place they came to worship -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, you know, hiding in plain sight, but it sounds like from listening to that news conference that some credit goes to some alert neighbors. They were saying, you know, something is just not right about this group.

ZARRELLA: Right. No question about it. And even the neighbors that we talked with yesterday said -- said to us that, in quotes, they were odd, they were strange. They'd stand outside. But they -- it was pretty clear what -- they would stand outside wearing all black. They looked as if they were soldiers on guard. They came out and they exercised in the yard, so it wasn't as if they were hiding what they were doing. They may have certainly been hiding their intentions, but they weren't hiding what they were doing here.

And just a little white ago we had some sound come in from a family member who said that, "Look, these guys were doing nothing, but they were living a clean life. They didn't eat meat. They practiced religion here."

Again, that's more than once now we've heard from family members who insist that these men were doing nothing wrong but practicing a very strict form of religion here at this site -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Let's go back. So you were out there last night, and you're working on reporting this story, and this guy comes up to you, and he says his name is Brother Corey. Pick it up from there and then let's listen to the sound, some of your interview with him. ZARRELLA: All right. Brother Corey walks up to me. I'm standing literally right here, and he walks up to me and says, "I'm a representative. I'm authorized to speak on behalf of our organization."

I asked him what the name of the group was, and, you know, he said that -- gave me the name of the group, and then we started the interview. I began to talk with him. He was detailing to me different things about the organization. He called themselves the Seas, S-E-A-S, Seas of David. Could be the Seeds of David, but he insisted it was Seas of David.

And we talked about the fact that were they -- were they terrorists? He insisted they weren't. And he insisted, again, that all they were, were peaceful people who were practicing their religion here, and you can listen to a portion of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROTHER COREY, MEMBER, SEAS OF DAVID: We have commitments to people in Chicago. You heard?

ZARRELLA: Yes.

COREY: So it's like we -- we negotiate to help the peace. We try to -- we try to bring as many brothers in to help them out.

ZARRELLA: But you do have connections with people in Chicago, but not terrorist?

COREY: No -- no terrorists. We are not terrorists.

ZARRELLA: But there were connections to other members of this group in Chicago?

COREY: Yes, we have soldiers in Chicago.

ZARRELLA: Why do you call yourself soldiers? What's the -- you know, if it's a peaceful group, why use the term soldier?

COREY: Because we study and we train through the Bible, not only physical -- not only physical but mentally. We study and we worship that we have the sense of direction that got other people in the right direction.

We are not no terrorists. We come here every morning, and we have the sense to go to work. We are not in a homeless -- this is not no homeless shelter for a terrorism attack. You hear me?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: That's really not clear exactly what went on here. According to Brother Corey, when I pressed him again, insisting they were not terrorists, repeatedly, as you heard.

They talked about Chicago briefly as we got into that sound with him. We had asked him about Chicago. They had -- and he agreed, admitted that they had some connection to Chicago, but he was pretty nebulous about exactly what it was or with whom and really didn't seem to have a clear handle on where they were in Chicago or who these other men were in Chicago that the group had affiliations with.

So a lot of what he said was a bit incongruous at times, but he did tell us that they worked here, they were planning to open a restaurant. Some of them worked as construction. They were just keeping to themselves. So in many respects, Daryn, a lot of what he was telling us last night was both fit with what's come out today, but was also all over the board on what they were doing here -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. John Zarrella in Miami. John, thank you for that. And of course, we do expect to hear more out of Miami. The U.S. attorney's office in Miami scheduling these conferences for about 15 minutes. You'll see that live here on CNN.

And then, the mention of Chicago, of course, that's part of the story because the Sears Tower in Chicago, as we look at a live picture on a clear day, apparently, allegedly, one of the targets of this group, wanting to blow it up. And the Chicago Office of Emergency Management and Communications also planning a news conference at the bottom of the hour. And we will go and juggle both of those news conferences to move the story forward and bring you as much information as possible.

So speaking of Chicago, our Keith Oppenheim is there at the base of the Sears Tower. And he tells us more about how that city is reacting.

Keith, good morning.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn.

I'm just half a block away from the base of the Sears Tower, and I went to the corner of the Sears Tower with my photographer to get some reaction from people. And just stepping on the sidewalk, immediately the security from the building shooed us away and told us to move.

Now one might thing that that means that security here is particularly uptight today, but I really don't think so. I think that's how they are most of the time. This is a very well-guarded building, has been especially since September 11, 2001.

Let's take a live wide view of the building, and I'll note that building officials did release a statement last night, and the gist of it, Daryn, was that their view of this plot, in conversations with federal law enforcement, was that it was at the talking stage, much more than it was at a plan of action stage, and that very much mirrors what federal authorities have said this morning.

We also talked to commuters this morning about how they're reacting to come this news, and some were a bit rattled, but for the most part going about their regular routine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course, you're concerned, but, you know, you have no control over anything that happens, so we have to do what we have to do, and that is to keep moving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think if you asked people on 9/11 would they have done anything differently, you know, nobody knew. You can't ever predict something like that happening, so you just have to do the best that you can and hope that the right precautions are in place to prevent anything terrible like that ever happening again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Just underscore what you said, Daryn, in about 15 minutes there's going to be a news conference by Chicago police. It's interestingly at the 911 center, Office of Emergency Management, which is really the technological nucleus of Chicago when it comes to security, especially in regards to matters like this.

In fact, there it's fascinating. I've been there. It's where they have this incredible interface with private security, such as in the Sears Tower, and public security with cameras all over town. So it's an appropriate place for us to hear more about what Chicago officials know.

Back to you.

KAGAN: OK. Keith Oppenheim in Chicago. Thank you.

Well, it is kind of a news conference-orama over the next hour and a half or so, because as Keith was mentioning, we do expect the emergency officials in Chicago to hold their news conference.

At the bottom of the hour, we also expect to hear from the U.S. attorney's office in Miami about what they know.

And then FBI director Mueller has remarks on homegrown terrorism. This is a speech that was set up before all this broke. It's coming out of Cleveland. It is set for 11 -- actually this one is set for 12:30 Eastern, and you'll see all of that live here on CNN. So stay with us. Take your ticket to ride, as we make the story move forward.

We'll take a break, but the story continues here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, on this day developing news -- excuse me -- a story coming out of the White House, word that Transportation Secretary Norm Mineta is leaving, that he'll step down in July. Mineta, the token Democrat serving in the Bush administration.

More on that as it becomes available, but, once again, Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta saying he'll complete his service in July.

Let's get back to our... We get back now to our breaking and developing story out of south Florida, where seven men have been arrested in connection with an alleged terror plot that could have targeted the Sears Tower in Chicago and the FBI building in Miami.

We have our law enforcement analyst, Mike Brooks, joining me right here on the set in Atlanta.

What are you being able to learn?

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I'll tell you. It sounds like these are just wannabes. They're homegrown...

KAGAN: Al Qaeda wannabes.

BROOKS: Al Qaeda wannabes, homegrown terrorists. People say, "Well, do we have home-grown terrorists?" Go back to 1995, Timothy McVeigh, another homegrown terrorist. When the bomb went off at the Murrah Building, everyone says it has all the earmarks of a Middle East terror attack. We found out that that was homegrown. There have been other homegrown groups in -- throughout the United States over the years, but this is like the latest.

Did they the capability to carry this off, Daryn? Probably not. But still, it's a good conspiracy case. The FBI Terrorism Task Force in Miami did a great job. They more or less facilitated their case, found out what they wanted to do, apparently through the help of some informants in the neighborhood. They were standing around acting like a military group. We heard some witnesses last night talking about that they would stand outside. They were dressed -- some of my sources were telling me that they dressed in military garb.

KAGAN: They wanted to be soldiers they said.

BROOKS: They wanted to be soldiers. One of the -- Brother Corey, John Zarrella great interview last night, who was on the scene at about quarter of 12 last night, said that they were soldiers. They had soldiers in Chicago, but they were not terrorists. Very, very telling.

You know, in fact, in the indictment they call themselves soldiers. They wanted to have -- they wanted boots, uniforms, machine guns, radios, vehicles, bullet-proof vests, $50,000. They were asking the al Qaeda representative, as it's called in the indictment, who was actually an undercover FBI agent.

KAGAN: Right. Now, that's what I think makes this story kind of stand out the most. Let's talk about the law enforcement angle of this. There was somebody inside this group that was able to, I don't know, set them up, or they thought set them up for what they wanted to do, but, in fact, was feeding information back to the FBI.

BROOKS: Absolutely. And some people said, well, they didn't bring any evidence out of the warehouse yesterday. I can guarantee you from working cases like this, Daryn, that they have plenty of evidence that they'll be able to take to court: Title III wiretaps, videotapes. In fact, they even gave the FBI undercover person -- even gave them a video camera to go videotape some of the targets, the FBI office in North Miami. And they came back with it -- with some of the surveillance they were doing.

They went to meetings down in Island Morada (ph) and gave them vans, rented vans. So they, again, facilitated it, but, again, some people would say, well, is that entrapment? No, it's not entrapment. It's not entrapment if these people are talking about wanting to do and carry out terrorist act. The FBI did a great undercover operation, and I think we'll find that out when it goes to court.

KAGAN: Right. We're splitting the screen here, because we want to tell people we're keeping an eye on what's happening in south Florida. This is Miami. The U.S. attorney's office there is going to hold its own news conference. We did hear from the U.S. attorney general, Alberto Gonzales just a few minutes ago.

In fact, we're about to launch into a number of news conferences. This one out of Miami. Emergency officials out of Chicago are going to talk about the Sears Tower being a target there. And then in a little bit, in the next hour, we expect to hear from the FBI director, Robert Mueller.

But going back on this, whether you can confirm it or not, as the former law enforcement official, your gut tells you that there's tapes?

BROOKS: Absolutely.

KAGAN: If there's nothing on videotape, then there's going to be something on audiotape?

BROOKS: Absolutely, yes. And that's what they're going to be able to take to court and say, "Here's exactly what they did." I mean, they all took, apparently, an oath to al Qaeda. I'm sure that they have that on videotape, and they will show that to say, yes, these people -- they apparently -- my sources were telling me last night that there's no direct al Qaeda links. But they were al Qaeda wannabes.

And we've seen that with other groups, too. They'll publicly support al Qaeda, but they don't have any link. They thought their one link was this FBI undercover person.

KAGAN: Right. And I mean, the scary thing is, in this day and age, there isn't necessarily one group that you can fight, that there can just be these random cells that just organize themselves.

BROOKS: Right. And you know, some people were saying is this a true terrorist cell? A true terrorist cell usually would keep more to themselves. The people in the neighborhood were saying that they would come out late at night, exercise. They would walk around in military uniforms, military-looking uniforms. They were running even a karate school or something out of that warehouse.

You know, is that your true terror cell? Doesn't sound like it to me. It sounded like these were some, you know, wannabes that really were kind of hapless.

KAGAN: Meanwhile, you've got to wonder what's happening in south Florida? You have this thing happening. Then 14 of the 19 hijackers of 9/11 spent time in Broward County in the weeks before 9/11, and there's been other connections to other terrorist cases. What is it about south Florida that's drawing these kind of people?

BROOKS: I keep -- I keep -- get questions all the time is this a breeding ground for terrorists? Well, if you think about south Florida, it's a very, very diverse community, a lot of different nationalities. People can get kind of get lost in the shuffle, if you will. There's not, you know, an old, established neighborhood. But you can kind of get lost, go about your business, and no one says anything to you. And no one wants to know what you're doing.

And you know, again, that comes back to people being vigilant. And apparently, some people in this particular neighborhood of Liberty City did tip off law enforcement. And that's how they were able to find out exactly what some of these people were going about and wanted carry out a terrorist attack.

KAGAN: Right. You can go into the woodwork as long as you don't run around the neighborhood saying you want to be a soldier.

BROOKS: Exactly. You know, and they were...

KAGAN: And run in military fatigues. Not a good idea.

BROOKS: Right. No, there were people saying, no, they keep their heads wrapped up. Just all you could see was their eyes. They were -- kept to themselves, these kind of things. That's not a way a terrorist cell would act.

KAGAN: Got it. Mike Brooks, thank you.

BROOKS: Always a pleasure.

KAGAN: Yes. And once again, we are standing by, waiting for a number of news conferences. We're learning as we go with the news conferences as they unfold. We heard from the U.S. attorney general just a few minutes ago, and in a matter of minutes we expect to hear from the attorney general's office out of Miami.

Also, in Chicago, emergency officials there will be holding a news conference to talk about what they know about the Sears target (sic) possibly being a target and what they're doing to protect that landmark.

Question ahead, how safe are we?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If terrorists should attack a tanker like this and blow it up, a recent federal report warns a fireball could reach out 1/3 of a mile in every direction.

(on camera) How many people do you think live within a third of a mile?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rough number, 100,000 people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Concerns that Boston is at risk of a water-born terror attack. Randi Kaye shows us here on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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