Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Senate Rejects Calls for Troop Withdrawal Timetable; Miami Terror Plot

Aired June 23, 2006 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A congressional debate on the war in Iraq is over. And the Senate, like the House before it, has rejected calls for a troop withdrawal timetable.
Joining from us D.C., CNN political contributor and Democratic strategist James Carville.

Hey, James, good morning. Nice to see you.

JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POL. CONTRIBUTOR: Well, good to see you. Thank you.

I hope the debate didn't get as bad as it did in that basketball game.

O'BRIEN: Wow, wasn't that ugly? Can you believe it? But some people would say, actually the debate might have. Do you think it was a miscalculation to bring that, to have that debate?

CARVILLE: Oh, no, I don't. I think it would have been a terrible calculation to offer more of the same. I think the Republican party, by saying we need to stay where we are, the contract, the graft and fraud, the fact that we're not making progress over there, not being brought to the congressional debate. I think our troops deserve a very vigorous debate on this. I think they need to look at alternative solutions and they need to do something different and change the course, because what we're doing is not providing the kind of progress that we need to make in Iraq. So I think the Democrats were very good, and they're trying to offer solutions and think of this in a different way. The Republican Party has gone completely brain dead. And to say we can't make any changes. We're doing as best we can. We can't do any better than we're doing, and I think that's a ridiculous position to take right now.

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, if you look at the CNN polls, you see the majority of people will say the war's a mistake, the majority of people say they oppose the war, the majority people says the war is going badly. So why can't the Democrats get together in a united front and present something that's not a debate that I think really truly can confuse the voters?

CARVILLE: Right, because the Democratic Party, you have people like Colonel Murtha, who the military is telling him that the best thing we can do is get out, that we've accomplished our military objectives. You have other people in the party, like Senator Biden, that says we can partion the country, and that's the best way. Then you have Senator Levin who says we can have a timetable we can throw on the Iraqis.

The truth is, the only debate about the Iraqi War, the only people talking about how to make progress in Iraq are the Democrats. While -- and it is true that there is a vigorous debate, and that there are different opinions, the only people offering something different from the disastrous stay-the-course policies of this administration are the Democrats. And hopefully...

O'BRIEN: But usually a lot of debate's done behind closed down, then you come to work with a united position, and you say to the American people, here's what we think, here's how we can best lead the country. When you come to the American people work with sort of a divided front, don't you send the message...

CARVILLE: You know, Soledad, this is -- our soldiers and Marines deserve a vigorous debate. They deserve leadership that's looking for something different.

What we see now is less electricity. We see more insurgent attacks. We see all these things going on. We see Iran involved, as we saw, and see in the reports, making IEDs, attacking our own troops. We see allies pulling out. And you know, if this debate those go to the floor of the United States Senate and happen, this is what the Marines and soldiers deserve from their government. They deserve a vigorous debate on this.

And because this administration has, in the words of imminent historian Martin Van Clebble (ph), calling invasion of Iraq the greatest military blunder since Caesar Augustus invaded Germany in BC '09. The solutions are difficult, but the only people that are talking about this that are trying to change the course and do something different are the Democrats, and I think that's what our soldiers and Marines really deserve.

O'BRIEN: People might say listen, hashing out is certainly maybe morally great, but at the end of the day, it could confuse people, and come November, winning is what's going to matter. So if you morally take the high ground and you have a debate, as you say, but you lose...

CARVILLE: I don't think -- I think that the country doesn't want more of the same. I think the country is sickened by the graft. I think the country is sickened by the misplanning. I think the country is sickened by the incompetence. I think the country is inspired by the bravery of the people that are fighting the war and think that they deserve a better strategy, and I think the Democrats are the people that are trying to come up with this strategy.

I've never been more proud to be a Democrat when I see my party trying to offer different solutions for our fighting men and women, and I think that the country will come to that solution, because the Republicans are offering nothing but slogans and soundbites, and that's not good enough for the kind of job that our people are doing over there.

O'BRIEN: John Kerry's proposal got 13 votes. Here's a statement that he said. "The vote today," he said, "was a dramatic step in forcing a Congress that shares responsibility for getting us into Iraq to take responsibility for finally getting the policy right in Iraq." A dramatic step, 13 votes, you think?

CARVILLE: Well, Senator Kerry, that's his proposal. He's one of several Democrats that have other proposals. I've pointed out Senator Biden has a proposal, partitions, Senator Levin has a proposal. Senator Reid is working on a variety of different proposals. So there is, when you have -- as the imminent military historian in the world said, this is the greatest blunder in over 2,000 years. You're right, people are going to be thinking different things.

The only thought, the only debate, the only people that are talking about coming up with a better policy are the Democrats. All the Republicans offer is more of the same. They don't want to debate they this. They want to continue down the disastrous path that we're on, and I think it's time to talk about changes.

And you're right, this kind of change is difficult, because the magnitude of the incompetence is so difficult. If there was an easy solution or an obvious solution, obviously, obviously the Democrats would take it right away.

Listen to what Senator Dianne Feinstein had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Our amendment is not about cutting and running. Rather, our amendment acknowledges that staying the course is a strategy that shows no promise of success, and it is time to change that strategy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Two things I noticed in there. One, she started by saying this is what we're not, which is really, anybody will tell you, not how you can define yourself an often win, and also, she says, cut and run, which is the Republican phrase that she's now embraced and moved forward. Isn't that a mistake?

CARVILLE: First of all, how many slogans have we had? Mushroom clouds...

O'BRIEN: Two million, I'll grant you that. A zillion, a gillion, I hear you.

CARVILLE: I know, so that's all they offer. I think that she was brilliant when she said -- and I think Senator Feinstein made a very good point -- we can't stay the course. It's not working. We need to change strategies here...

O'BRIEN: Don't voters want -- forgive me for interrupting...

CARVILLE: You can interrupt all you want. It's your show. That's OK.

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

Well, don't voters want to hear, we're not, we're not, they want to hear, this is what we're doing, this is where we're going, this is our vision?

CARVILLE: Soledad, didn't the Democrats offer -- I went through, some Democrats say the best thing to do is partition. You have people that talk about timetables. There's a vigorous debate and the only place that there's a debate...

O'BRIEN: But if I'm a voter...

CARVILLE: You're not going to let me finish.

O'BRIEN: All right, I hear you. I hear you. I'll give you that.

CARVILLE: If you're a voter, if you're a voter, you're saying we need to debate this. The only place that that debate is taking place is in the Democratic Party. The Republican Party offers nothing but more of the same, nothing but stay right where we are. Whatever it is, we can't move, we can't change policies. That's not what voters want.

O'BRIEN: You think voters say, boy, I want to hear debate? And voters don't say, boy, I want to hear a comprehensive, single plan?

CARVILLE: Again if it was such an easy thing to have -- the administration has no plan. It says stay the course, which is not working. If it was obvious -- if there was one thing that was so obvious, you don't commit the greatest military blunder in 2,000 years and have a simple solution.

And I think from this debate, I think if these soldiers and these Marines deserve to have the policy of this government aired out and discussed, and to try to come up with something better than the disaster that we have right now, I really do.

O'BRIEN: James Carville, always nice to chat with you.

CARVILLE: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Sorry for interrupting you so much.

CARVILLE: That's all right. No, I like vigorous debate on CNN, too, just like the Senate floor. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Me, too. I agree with that one -- John.

ROBERTS: You guys came close to the basketball game, but you missed it.

O'BRIEN: Oh, never, never, never.

ROBERTS: It's 38 minutes after the hour. We want to go back to Jeanne Meserve in Washington. She has just got her hands on copies of the FBI documents in Miami, the complaints against this group. Jeanne, what can you tell us?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're just reading through this document now. Excuse if I read as I do some readings and I tell you about this. These individuals, seven of them are charged with knowingly combining, conspiring, confederating and agreeing to provide material support and resources. One individual, it is said, recruited and supervised individuals in order to organize and train for a mission to wage war against the United States government, which included a plot to destroy by explosives the Sears Tower in Chicago, Illinois.

It says that this individual and other conspirators attempted to obtain support of al Qaeda. It goes through a series of meetings that this individual had with someone who he believed to be a member of al Qaeda. These meetings, according to the indictment, began on December 16th of 2005. In this meeting, according to the indictment, this individual identified as Narsile Batite (ph), told the al Qaeda representative -- the person he thought to be al Qaeda -- that he was organizing a mission to build an Islamic army in the United States in order to wage a jihad, and he provided this supposed al Qaeda member with a list of materials and equipment that he needed to conduct this.

This list included, according to the indictment, boots, uniforms, machine guns, radios, and vehicles. He outlined for this individual his vision of war against the United States in order to, quote, "kill all the devils we can" in a admission that would be, quote, "just as good or greater than 9/11, beginning with the destruction of the Sears Tower." According to this indictment, he got hold of a camera, and he did some casing, he and others. Eventually, he provided this al Qaeda representative with photographs of the FBI building in Miami, as well as photographs and video footage of the James Lawrence King Federal Justice Building, federal courthouse buildings, the federal detention center and the Miami Police Department, all located in Miami-Dade, Florida. And then, according to this indictment, on May of this year, Batiste told this supposed al Qaeda representative that he was experiencing delays because of problems within his organization, but he wanted to continue his mission and maintain his relationship with al Qaeda.

So, those are the nuts and bolts for you.

ROBERTS: Batiste, Jeanne, would that be the Haitian national?

MESERVE: There's no indication on this indictment of the nationality of these individuals.

ROBERTS: Any reference in the charging document as to the Seas or Seeds of David that we've been talking about?

MESERVE: I have not seen any reference. I have admittedly done one quick read of the document, but I have not seen that reference here.

All right, Jeanne Meserve, thanks. We'll get back to you as the morning wears on. Appreciate that.

Forty-one minutes after the hour now. We'll be back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Science and politics collide. In a report from the nation's foremost climate experts, they say the Earth is the hottest that it has been in 400 years, and they are convinced that it's our fault, that human activity has caused global climate change. New York Congressman Sherwood Boehlert asked for the study. He is the chairman of the House Science Committee, and he joins us now from Utica, New York.

Good morning to you, Congressman Boehlert.

REP. SHERWOOD BOEHLERT (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE SCIENCE COMMITTEE: Good morning.

ROBERTS: Why did you ask for this study?

BOEHLERT: Well, because I wanted to be informed by scientists, not by pollsters or political operatives. So we asked for the report from the National Academy of Science.

ROBERTS: Right. Now this study for the National Academy of Sciences backs up a study done during the 1990s by another group of scientists, and wasn't it last year that Congressman Joe Barton from Texas started attacking the scientists behind this, and that's what got you involved?

BOEHLERT: Well, yes. The Energy and Commerce Committee, which Chairman Barton presides over, had not had hearings on the subject. Instead of hearings to be informed. They tried to intimidate the scientist who did the study that -- you know, I work in a town where everyone likes to say they're for science-based decision-making, until the scientific consensus leads to a politically inconvenient conclusion, then they want to go to plan B.

ROBERTS: Right. So what's your position? Is this conclusive evidence of global warming and of our involvement in it?

BOEHLERT: I think there's no doubt about it. The broad scientific consensus on global climate change is for real. Moreover, it's acknowledged that man has contributed significantly to the problem, and we've got to do something about it.

ROBERTS: Now, here's what's really unusual about that statement. It's coming from a Republican. Not to say that all Republicans don't believe in global warming, but President Bush, just in the last year, has admitted that yes, perhaps there is climate change, and maybe human activity plays a part in that. But still, there's enormous resistance to the idea in the Republican Party. Why?

BOEHLERT: Well, some people don't like to change the old way of thinking. The fact of the matter is the president has acknowledged that global climate change is for real. He has said that man has contributed to it. We are investing about $2 billion a year in the federal budget, in research. Now, let's be informed by scientists and respond to that information rather than trying to intimidate the scientists.

ROBERTS: All right, all right. So the Republicans are the party in power, you're the chairman of the Science Committee, the Republicans are the ones who have the power to take on this issue and do something about it, yet there are still so many people who are standing in your way. Is that frustrating?

BOEHLERT: Well, there's some people that are sort of dragging their feet. They haven't come around to the new way of thinking. Hopefully, a report like this from a highly respected organization, like the National Academy of Science, will better show the Congress to be more responsive to the problem.

But let me point out, I am just refusing to seed the environment as an issue that has no particular party identification. We, as Republicans, have a great body of members who are very concerned about issues like global climate change.

ROBERTS: Do you really think, Congressman Boehlert, that something is really going to happen as a result of this study?

BOEHLERT: I darn well do, because we'll get that study to the members, the members, hopefully they'll read it, their staffs will read it, and then we'll begin to think of what kind of action to take. Hope springs eternal over in the Senate.

ROBERTS: But you're not going to be there to continue to drive this through, though; you're retiring in November.

BOEHLERT: Yes, but someone else will carry on. The fact of the matter is we have evidence on both sides of the Capitol that former skeptics are coming around. We have a movement like the evangelicals; 86 of the leading evangelicals have come out and said we have to be more responsible in our stewardship of the environment. They're aboard so we're moving in the right direction.

ROBERTS: All right, Congressman Sherwood Boehlert, thanks very much for being with us. Appreciate it, sir.

BOEHLERT: Thank you.

ROBERTS: Soledad?

O'BRIEN: All right, coming up next, Andy Serwer's "Minding Your Business."

Good morning, Andy.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Soledad.

Google rolls out free TV. Plus, the great Massachusetts fluff controversy. Should it be banned in Boston? We'll talk about that. O'BRIEN: All right. You know where I stand on that. I love the marshmallow fluff.

SERWER: We'll put that to the test.

O'BRIEN: Happy to do it.

Also ahead this morning, more of my exclusive interview with Bruce Springsteen. He spoke with us right before his concert last night at Madison Square Garden. The Boss talking about his new album and the political edge that's a really big part of it. That's ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Early-bird specials are a popular dining choice with some older Americans. But for one New York retiree, it's the diner that whets his appetite.

CNN's Valerie Morris has more in this edition of "Life After Work."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIO MONTI, DINER-HOLIC: My name is Mario Monti. I'm 76 years old. I'm a retired teacher and a diner-holic.

VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mario says a diner-holic is someone who is hooked on the history and location of diners. He and his wife, Lucile, have been chasing diners for nearly 15 years. Their research led to his book, "A Directory of Diners," which lists thousands of eateries around the world.

MONTI: It's like being a Yankee fan or a dodger fan. Something strikes you about it, and I just love it.

MORRIS: Mario has visited, eaten in, or photographed a whopping 866 diners. The allure, he says, is that they put you at ease.

MONTI: The people in there are always friendly. They're always willing to smile at you and your coffee cup is always full.

MORRIS: So what does a diner-holic, like Mario, actually order?

MONTI: In the past it was meatloaf, mashed potatoes, carrots with blueberry pie and tea. Nowadays it's more like a grilled cheese.

MORRIS: He is also working on a book called "Diners of New York," but despite the enthusiasm for his subject matter, Mario insists he has no plans to open his own.

MONTI: Absolutely not. These hairs would be all gone. That's good.

MORRIS: Valerie Morris, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com