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American Morning

The Fight for Iraq; Discovery Set to Launch

Aired June 30, 2006 - 08:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A new Osama bin Laden tape praises the work of al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who was killed in a June 7th strike. Are we seeing a drop in violence on the ground since Zarqawi's death?
Major General William Caldwell is a spokesman for the Multinational Force in Iraq. He's in Baghdad.

Nice to see you, general. Thanks for talking with us. We sure appreciate it.

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: Well, good morning. Sure. Glad to be here today, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, thank you very much.

This new Osama bin Laden tape celebrates Zarqawi as hero. I'm sure you're familiar with the contents of the tape now.

CALDWELL: We are.

S. O'BRIEN: When you look at the numbers, though, are you seeing any tangible change in attacks upon U.S. soldiers, or even Iraqi soldiers as well, since the killing of Zarqawi?

CALDWELL: Well what we did see, and we'd anticipate that, is a slight upturn in the attacks on us as a result of that, with some of his followers trying to show that they still had some resiliency and capability that existed here in the country.

But we, in fact, have done a real deed to that organization. They have been tremendously disorganized and disabled through these recent attacks we've had on the key leadership of them.

S. O'BRIEN: On the tape, Osama bin Laden asks for the body of Zarqawi to be returned to the family in a short part of the tape. Where is the body of Zarqawi? What's going to happen to that body?

CALDWELL: Well, what we've done with the body of both Zarqawi and Rakman (ph), is we returned that to the government of Iraq officials who know have in fact buried and Rakman in accordance with Muslims' customs and traditions.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the amnesty plan. The amnesty plan, as you well know, according to Iraq's prime minister, the National Reconciliation Plan as he calls it. He says he's not going to free anybody who has committed terror activity, crimes against humanity, war crimes, anybody who's killed Americans, anybody who's killed Iraqi soldiers, anybody who's killed Iraqi police. That's a long list of exceptions to who's going to be freed. Isn't there a risk there that actually no real insurgents, in fact, are going to be -- that you're really not going to get to any real reconciliation with all of these exceptions?

CALDWELL: Well, the one thing we know is that he calls it his national reconciliation and dialogue, and he's encouraging his countrymen to get out there and start dialogue on this whole process.

He has set some initial conditions, exactly what you stated. But we're finding tremendous amounts of groups that are coming forward right now, both as we know to his organizations that he has and to the Multinational Force, requesting to engage in dialogue and talk about this amnesty program and his national reconciliation plan.

S. O'BRIEN: How do you know those groups coming forward haven't been targeting and killing American soldiers?

CALDWELL: Well, we don't for sure. But we do know that in order to even start this process, there's going to have to be some sort of initial interaction and dialogue between the government of Iraq and those organizations, and he's encouraging them to come forth and start that dialogue process. I think we'll see this thing evolve.

When he put out that plan the other day, it wasn't intended to be the blueprint, but rather a blueprint for which they can start to make further refinements and developments from, and get his country involved in the process.

S. O'BRIEN: If the whole country gets involved in the process, and do what they come up with is, listen, some of people who killed American soldiers are going to have to be forgiven, are you going to be OK with that?

CALDWELL: Well, I think that would be speculation on my part at this point to talk about what might be. But we are just really encouraged, Soledad, by the fact that they are starting this process. They will never achieve unity over here until they get all the people of this nation talking together and realizing it's in each their best interests to form together as one nation.

S. O'BRIEN: Back to the Osama bin Laden tape, it's now the fourth tape, as you know, in just a month, the first three coming from al-Zawahiri.

Are you concerned as we talk to terror experts and they do their analysis on this tape, as some of them are, that this could signal some activity, some big activity among insurgents, whether it's in Iraq or outside of Iraq, four in a row?

CALDWELL: Well, that's an interesting debate that goes on. We also are concerned any time there's a tape that Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden or even -- that was put out by anybody before. But we also realize that they have somehow got to rally their force. They've been taking a lot of hits out there. There' been a lot disruption in their networks. The coalition of nations that are fighting this global war on terror are having some success out there. They're making some inroads into disrupting what they have planned against not only the United States of America, but to other countries. And so those tapes are critical for them to let their masses know they're still there.

Now none of us have seen Osama bin Laden in picture for over, I think, almost two years now, only audiotapes. So you don't know really what's going on with that organization and what's happening. But we do take these things seriously. We watch them closely, and we try to see if there is a message in there.

S. O'BRIEN: General Dempsey says that the Iraqi army, the new army is going to be formed, and at full strength by the end of the year, but -- and it reads like a pretty big but to me -- a shortage of qualified officers and not enough infrastructure to carry out independent operations. We've been long told, well, U.S. troops will stand down when the Iraq army can stand up. When is that exactly going to be if they don't have the qualified officers, and they can't carry out independent operations, and the infrastructure is lacking still?

CALDWELL: Well, here's what I'd tell you, they are conducting independent operations today, at the company level and below, which is about 150 people and below, about 30 percent of our operations every week are done as independent operation by Iraqi security forces. That's about 140 different types of operations they do on a weekly basis.

What they don't have is the sustainment capability. They can get out there and engage and conduct independent ops but can not sustain it. There is a plan. General Dempsey has laid out very well when he'll train those sustainment-type forces. They come on line in early 2007 through the spring of 2007, and then they will have that capability to not only conduct the independent operation, but then sustain it and continue it on for quite few days.

So he is correct in saying they don't have the capabilities to sustain themselves, but they are conducting independent operations today.

S. O'BRIEN: Major General William Caldwell joining us this morning from Baghdad. Thank you very much, general. Certainly appreciate your time.

CALDWELL: Well, thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles?

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come in the program, countdown to uncertainty. The shuttle is set to fly with a problem that is considered probable and catastrophic. We'll tell you why NASA's boss overruled some of his own experts.

S. O'BRIEN: And then later this morning -- one down, another to go. Juan Valdez is passing the hat, so to speak, handing over the reins of Conchita the Mule to a New Juan. Oh, we're talking about Colombian coffee. Just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: There it is. Space Shuttle Discovery on the launchpad, scheduled for liftoff 3:48 1/2 p.m. Eastern time tomorrow. Second shuttle flight since the Columbia disaster. An awful lot of uncertainty on this whole issue. Let me walk you through this. There's a live picture there at Launchpad 39B at the Kennedy Space Center.

First of all, let me walk you through -- let's go back to three- and-half years ago, Columbia, and remind you of the problems that were associated with that. A piece of foam about the size of a briefcase -- we'll roll some tape for you, show you how that worked -- fell off the external fuel tank of Columbia, struck the left edge of the wing. You can see it right in there if you train your eye very closely. As it hits it, it kind of explodes, almost. Caused a big breach in the heat shield. Sixteen days later, when the crew came home, Columbia disintegrated and we lost the crew.

OK, flash forward to last summer, July, Discovery launching. And we'll show thaw tape of Discovery from last year. NASA spent an awful lot of time trying to fix that problem of falling foam, including putting these cameras on that you see here to see what was going on. And look what happened. Another big piece of big foam fell off. The good news in this case is that it didn't hit anything, like that wing, which would have been a problem, perhaps, potentially, a repeat of the Columbia scenario.

So back to the drawing board they went. Let me take -- show you exactly what's gone on in the interim. They took a big, long, actually pair of pieces of foam, the foam that caused this piece to come off. Show the animation, please. Give people an idea of what that is all about. They call them pal (ph) ramps. They were designed for aerodynamic smoothing. So when air came over on these pipes and so forth, it wouldn't cause a problem. They took it off. Took all that foam out of there. And it has left, however, these little pieces here, which are called ice frost ramps. Frost ice -- ice frost ramps, right here.

And the concern is that those, in fact, could fall off the tank. They haven't come up way fix for that, but they're still flying. It they fly and something bad happens and they lose a vehicle, it is truly make or break for the program. Listen to the NASA administrator.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL GRIFFIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: If we were to lose another vehicle, I will tell you right now that I would be moving to figure out a way to shut the program down. I think at that point, we're done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Let's bring in our guest now, Scott Kelly, the twin brother of Discovery pilot Mark Kelly, also an astronaut, joining us now from the Kennedy Space Center. Scott, good to have you with us.

Just -- I kind of set the plate for you there on all the foam. I'm curious what astronauts are thinking right now with Discovery on the pad and all of the discussion and debate about this foam and the fact that it is classified technically as a probable catastrophic loss, and yet Discovery is slated for launch. Do you feel comfortable with that?

SCOTT KELLY, BROTHER OF SHUTTLE PILOT MARK KELLY: I feel very comfortable with the decision to try to launch tomorrow. You know, we've never seen foam of this size come -- of the catastrophic size -- come off the ice frost ramps. The foam we've had has been much smaller. So even though it's categorized as probable and if a big piece came off the ice frost ramp and hit the wing, it could be potentially catastrophic to the wing of the shuttle, it's really not an issue for the safety of the crew.

M. O'BRIEN: In other words, worst case scenario, you lose the vehicle. That's not a good day, but they have the option of staying on the space station, waiting for a rescue mission. But what we have to point out is that the vehicle that would come to rescue them is Atlantis and would have the same external tank design. There's a little bit of a flaw in that logic, isn't there?

KELLY: Well, you know, over 114 flights, we've never seen a piece of ice frost ramp foam of this size come off. So even though on some, you know, on the safety probability risk chart, it's in the probable -- probable and catastrophic category, I don't necessarily believe that. I think we would have seen foam of that size come off the ice frost ramps before. So it's something that I don't think will happen. And if it did, I don't think it's going happen twice in a row.

M. O'BRIEN: You have the chief engineer of the agency, the chief safety officer, both saying they're no go for launch because of this. Is it your sense that this problem has been elevated to what is called a red problem? In other words, the most serious problem. Is -- was it wrong to elevate it to that level?

KELLY: Well you know, they have a different criteria than the NASA administrator on deciding whether we're go or no go for launch. And their concern was the risk to the vehicle. And they were very comfortable with that, this not being an issue to the risk of the crew. So, you know, the NASA administrator has a lot of people giving him advice, but it's up to him to decide in the end whether we launch the shuttle or not. It doesn't have to be 100 percent of a vote by everyone involved.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's hear from your brother, your twin brother, for just a moment. Younger brother by six minutes, right?

KELLY: No, that would be me.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, that's the other way around. All right, let's listen to Mark for a second. Oh. We don't have it? All right. Well, he was talking about his -- the concern, particularly post- Columbia, that astronauts and their families, and you encompass both groups here in one person here, feel watching their loved ones take a ride like this. What's going to be going through your mind? Is it different post-Columbia for somebody who wears a blue suit like you and somebody who happens to be the brother of somebody onboard?

KELLY: I don't any it's different. You know, before , I think the astronauts and many of the people at NASA understood the risks of human space flight. It is a very risky business. It was risky in the beginning. It's still risky today. And we do our best to make sure we can fly as safe as possible. But it's never going to be 100 percent safe. If we want to be 100 percent safe, we would never fly.

So personally, I'm very comfortable with the risk of this mission. And I think all of the folks, although I can't speak for them myself, I think they're comfortable with it, too.

M. O'BRIEN: Astronaut Scott Kelly, twin brother of the Discovery pilot Mark Kelly. Thanks for your time, and we wish and your brother and everybody else well, as NASA goes for their second launch, post- Columbia. CNN will have live coverage tomorrow's launch. I'll be there as of this evening. We'll have coverage all throughout the day.

Eileen Collins, former shuttle commander, first woman ever to command a shuttle, will be on hand throughout the day and throughout the mission. 3:00 p.m. Eastern time we'll have a special. The launch slated for 3:49 p.m. Eastern time, weather permitting. So far no technical issues, but we'll be watching those afternoon storm clouds in Florida.

Andy, "Minding Your Business" after a short break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: We'll have a special, the launch slated for 3:49 p.m. Eastern Time, weather permitting. So far, no technical issues. But we'll be watching those afternoon storm clouds in Florida.

Andy "Minding Your Business" after a short break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Franny Martin, the founder of Cookies on Call is not traveling the world in her retirement, but her homemade cookies are.

CNN's Valerie Morris has more in this edition of "Life After Work."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANNY MARTIN, OWNER, COOKIES ON CALL: This is the beginning of the best chocolate-chunk cookie that you'll ever taste.

VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may about simple cookie recipe, but to 60-year-old Franny Martin it is her calling. MARTIN: I started baking with my grandma when I was 4 years old, and I was so fascinated with what she did, that I was just set up at her side. It's in my blood. It's what I love to do.

MORRIS: The former marketing and public relations executive opened cookies on call after retiring from the corporate world.

MARTIN: I wanted to do something that had meaning for me, and that would make other people happy.

MORRIS: Martin's business began out of her home with delivery and online orders. She had just one cookie, the chocolate-chunk hazelnut. There are now 61 kinds and a retail shop in Douglas, Michigan.

MARTIN: We do upwards of 700 a day, and we ship them all over the world. The one customer actually said that the angel should take care of my hands, because you thought the cookies were that good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello!

MARTIN: My business keeps me happy, and happiness keeps you young. I feel younger at 60 than I did at 19. It's just that I've got a few more wrinkles, and my back's not as strong.

MORRIS: Valerie Morris, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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