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American Morning

North Korea Fires Away Again; Is the U.S. Safe?; Space Shuttle Discovery

Aired July 05, 2006 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: North Korea fires away again. A seventh missile launched just a few hours ago.
The U.N. Security Council about 60 minutes away from an emergency session on what to do next on this problem. This morning the White House and the world denouncing North Korea. Is diplomacy still the best way to go?

Good morning to you. I'm Miles O'Brien.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Carol Costello, in this week for Soledad.

O'BRIEN: This morning North Korea launched its seventh missile in 24 hours. All of them fell harmlessly in the Sea of Japan, but it's a show of force that may be sending a message to the world at large and the U.S. in particular.

CNN's Jamie McIntyre live now from the Pentagon with more on all this.

And tell us what we know about these missiles, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the U.S. Northern Command is the -- is the agency in the United States that's responsible for missile defense. They have been monitoring what's been going on in the North Korean peninsula.

They say that the six short-range missiles were a combination of some scuds, what's called Nodong, which is sort of a scud-plus missile. These are fairly conventional short-range missiles, that North Korea has many of them in their arsenal. In fact, they fired them off before.

They were sort of the -- for show around the launch of the Taepdong-2 missile, the long-range missile, which is essentially an attempt to put some scud missiles together to make a multi-stage missile. Here we see the file of what was fired back in 1998.

The missile, though, failed about 40 seconds into the launch. The U.S. says it did not have anything to do with that failure. There was no attempt to shoot down the missile in the boost phase. They say the missile failed on its own.

The Northern Command said they monitored the launch, determined quickly that this wasn't a threat to the United States. So there was no need to make any decision about employing the midcourse interceptor system which is just in its inception, with interceptors both in Alaska and California. They say they're -- they've been monitoring the situation there, and at this point there was no need to try to operate the missile defense system, which is still in development -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: So, at the heart of this, the missile we were most worried about in advance was a failure. Is it possible, Jamie, is there any thinking at the Pentagon, that the six other missile firings were an attempt to divert our attention away from the fact that they had a big flop?

MCINTYRE: No. I'm not sure, because some of the missiles obviously were fired before the Taepodong. Some were fired after, some of these short-range missiles.

I think it's basically being dismissed here as political theater. Obviously, the U.S. sees the firing of the short-range missiles, you know, a half a dozen of them in a single day, as provocative act, one that is an attempt to get attention to the North Korea position. But militarily, it wasn't significant.

All of the missiles fell harmlessly in the Sea of Japan. And as I said, the technology involved in those short-range missiles has been around for a long time. It's well known that North Korea has those scud or scud-type missiles.

So, I think it's seen more as an exclamation point that was supposed to highlight the launch of the Taepodong, but the Taepodong missile, as we said, failed to perform as advertised.

O'BRIEN: And just to button this up, we have no reason to believe that the North Koreans have the technology to put a nuclear device in the nose cone of any of these missiles.

MCINTYRE: It was never clear what payload, if any, would have been on this Taepodong missile. In the past, in 1998, they claimed they were launches a satellite into space. That wasn't clear either.

And you're right, no one thinks that North Korea has the technology to put -- to make a nuclear warhead and make it small enough to fit on a missile. And at this point it doesn't even appear that they have the technology to really get that missile going very far.

O'BRIEN: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.

Thank you very much -- Carol.

COSTELLO: How is the Bush administration responding to this latest launch?

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux live at the White House to tell us.

Good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Well, White House officials and senior administration officials I've been speaking with this morning essentially say, truthfully, they are trying to play this thing down, tone down the rhetoric, if will you. They say, what have we learned from all of this?

First, that North Korea has limited capabilities.

Secondly, they say, Kim Jong-il thrives on attention, particularly crisis situations here. They do not want to play into that.

And then third, they say they are quite heartened by the responses from allies, from the Japanese, the Chinese, the South Koreans, all condemning this act.

So they are really trying what they say to put into perspective here. According to one administration official, he says, "The kids in California don't need to practice their duck and cover." That is an administration official.

What does he meaning by that? Look, no immediate threat to the United States here. A provocative act, but let's put this into perspective.

And one of the pictures that we saw, the administration trying to convey this, was last night, President Bush having a birthday party here at the White House, presented with gifts. He was also on the Truman balcony celebrating the fireworks. Clearly, that is the image that the administration is putting out here.

Now, critics, Carol, would say the reason why they're doing this, because North Korean policy, U.S. policy has failed. What other choice do they have -- Carol.

COSTELLO: But the day is young. It all could change in a matter of hours.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely. We don't necessarily expect to see, however, any special appearances by the president or special statements. That, again, part of the administration's strategy here to play this whole event, this crisis down and put it into perspective, their perspective.

COSTELLO: Their perspective.

Suzanne Malveaux live at White House this morning.

Thanks.

O'BRIEN: A tense day is now ending in Asia as the nations there most in harm's way grapple with North Korea's provocations. China is calling for calm, Japan for sanctions, South Korea expressing frustration.

We have live reports from all three places. In a unique position to tell you this story as it unfolds, Jaime FlorCruz in Beijing, Sohn Jie-Ae in Seoul.

We begin in Tokyo with Atika Shubert.

Atika, what's the reaction there?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a very tense day here in Japan. Japan obviously a prime target.

You have to remember that in 1998, North Korea actually launched a long-range missile over Japan. And in the last 24 hours, launched a series of missiles that all landed in the Sea of Japan. So obviously, anxiety levels here certainly on the rise.

Here's what one person we talked to on the street had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I really feel that something even worse will happen in the near future. I think, as in the past world wars, that if we ignore this problem it will eventually explode in our face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHUBERT: Now, as a result, Japan is taking a very tough stand, imposing economic sanctions and pushing for an emergency session of the U.S. Security Council. Specifically, Japan wants to see a clear resolution that censures North Korea.

Essentially, Japan wants to see the international community speaking in one voice to condemn these missile launches. Will Japan get it? We'll have to wait and see once that Security Council convenes in a short while -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Atika Shubert in Tokyo.

We'll be watching it there and here.

China has the most leverage on North Korea as its only ally in the region. But so far, it's been unwilling to use that leverage.

Jaime FlorCruz live from Beijing with more on what the Chinese are thinking right now -- Jaime.

JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, it took the Chinese over 16 hours to officially react to the launching of North Korean missiles. And when it did, it came in the form of a written statement by the foreign ministry posted on its Web site.

A spokesman said that China is very concerned over the events, but also asked on all -- asked all sides to keep calm and restraint. Such a vocal position reflects China's delicate diplomatic balance. You know, China being a main ally of North Korea, a neighbor of North Korea, and also main provider of food and oil and other economic aid. So, in that sense, the U.S. and Japan are hoping that China will use such a special leverage to lean on North Korea.

However, North Korea is hoping that China will block any attempts to impose economic sanctions over this, especially in the Security Council of the United Nations, where China wields a veto power. However, China's main advice is for all sides to remain calm, and also to come back to the negotiation table, to join again the six-party talks which has been stalled for the past six months -- for the past year -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Jaime FlorCruz, who is in Beijing for us.

Let's go to South Korea now, where they are deeply troubled about this show of force. After all, millions of their people live in North Korea artillery range.

Sohn Jie-Ae live now from Seoul with more on the reaction there -- Jie-Ae.

SOHN JIE-AE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Miles.

South Korean officials were relatively quick to react to add their voice of concern to the international community, but there was definitely a feeling of frustration here all day in South Korea. You have to remember that South Korea had worked very hard for a number of years to build a fragile but yet civil relationship with North Korea, a country that it once warred with. And it had had a little amount of luck.

Success there has been economic relationships going back and forth between it and South Korea. And the South Korean position today, they expressed that this firing of missiles could give more voice to hard-liners in Washington and in Japan, and it could further isolate North Korea. And even in South Korea, it could harden views towards North Korea, a view that we saw echoed on Seoul streets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The North Korean missile launch must have a bad effect on our country. The pressure by the United States and other big countries in the region are going to be felt by us more than anyone else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIE-AE: So, the South Koreans are ending their day feeling very concerned about the rise of tensions on the Korean peninsula and what effect that would have on both sides of the considered peninsula -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Sohn Jie-Ae in Seoul, South Korea.

Thank you very much.

Ahead, we'll get insight to what Kim Jong-il may be trying to say to the world with this missile launches. We'll check in with our former correspondent Mike Chinoy. He spent many, many years covering North Korea and the Pacific Rim. Truly an expert.

We'll see what he has to say -- Carol.

COSTELLO: He is, indeed.

North Korea's long-range missile was a dud, but what if? Could we protect our shores? The U.S. military says it was ready for an incoming missile.

CNN's Kareen Wynter is live at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, where they're keeping a close eye on North Korea.

Tell us more.

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, good morning. An extremely close eye.

We are in California's central coast, about 180 miles north of Los Angeles. And this is the exact location where interceptor missiles would be launched.

An official with the missile defense confirmed yesterday, actually, that two missiles, two intercepting missiles were activated here at Vandenberg and ready to go, and that everything is pretty much controlled out of and operated out of Northern Command. And to give you an idea of what exactly would prompt a launch here, NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense, has space-based satellites.

It would be able to track, to detect a potential incoming missile. They would be able to tell what type of launch it would be, and also whether or not this launch site here in California, or there's also another one in Alaska, would launch its missiles.

Now, a decision would be made on that, and, again, we're just still in standby mode. It was activated.

In terms of the nation's preparedness, we heard from a California congressman talking about that very issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: We have to move ahead with missile defense, because at some point, if diplomacy doesn't work, it's all physics. If you have a missile in the air, and it's coming toward one of your cities, the only way to stop it at that point is not with words, but with interceptors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WYNTER: And the Pentagon says the last time an interceptor missile was actually tested at this location was back in 2002, Carol, and that it missed its marked target -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, is he saying there should be more located in California? I mean, I know he's for the missile defense shield, per se, but go ahead. WYNTER: Well, nothing in terms of that, that there should be more. But, you know, there's a lot of speculation as to when something like this happens. Should we respond? Should we act? And I think the congressman was pointing out that you can't wait until there's that specific threat lying out there to act, that it's way too late to do that.

And once we're seeing that there's some sort of potential threat, Carol, that there is action that should be taken. Not words.

COSTELLO: Kareen Wynter reporting live from California this morning.

Thanks.

Let's head to Atlanta now to check in with Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Raining out there, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

MYERS: Back to you.

COSTELLO: So ugly.

O'BRIEN: Wow. I am glad I'm sitting right here.

Thank you very much, Chad.

MYERS: Hey, we have -- we have a shot from outside.

O'BRIEN: Do we? Yes.

MYERS: Yes. You can see people...

O'BRIEN: Oh, yes, there you go.

COSTELLO: Oh, that's beautiful.

MYERS: Yes, you should be able to see Hoboken and Jersey City. No.

O'BRIEN: No.

MYERS: People scrambling around.

O'BRIEN: That's what we call in the pilot world, IMC, Instrument Meteorological Conditions.

MYERS: There you go.

O'BRIEN: That means you can't see out the window, folks.

COSTELLO: Why don't they just say that, then?

O'BRIEN: If you're headed to Newark, we'll give you a shout out. Good luck. Good luck to you today.

MYERS: Sorry, guys.

O'BRIEN: And Godspeed.

COSTELLO: And god bless.

O'BRIEN: Godspeed and all that stuff.

COSTELLO: Coming up, we'll have more on those missile tests by North Korea, including a look of their impact on the world financial markets.

O'BRIEN: Also ahead, the foam was flying again, but apparently it was harmless. Still, it's a make-or-break space shuttle mission. What's going to happen after the shuttle and after I speak?

COSTELLO: I'm going to speak now.

O'BRIEN: There you go. Let's do that.

COSTELLO: And later, don't blame parents for how kids turn out these days. Blame their brothers and sisters. The surprising power of siblings, that's just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

O'BRIEN: So I'm off the hook. Great.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ignition and liftoff of the space shuttle Discovery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: It was a pretty sight in Florida after a couple of weather scrubs. Beautiful, beautiful day there at the Kennedy Space Center.

The space shuttle Discovery carrying a crew of seven to the International Space Station. Only the second flight since that awful loss, the loss of space shuttle Columbia three-and-a-half years ago.

And as you look at these pictures, as Discovery lofted its way towards space, not just for public affairs consumption, it's for the engineers as they took at look at that debris problem, the falling foam, which is, of course, the origin of the problems for Columbia. There were a couple of pieces that fell off, and we're going to talk to our next guest about the implications of all of this.

Former shuttle astronaut Norm Thagard, a veteran of four shuttle missions, spent -- well, for him, it seemed like six years on the Mir, but it was just about six months or so. The first American to spend time on the space station Mir, may it rest in peace, joining us now. Norm, we saw some foam come off that shuttle, and everything I've seen says, small pieces, and pieces, more importantly, that fell off way up high, where the air is so thin that the aerodynamic drag doesn't slow it down enough to cause a real impact on the orbiter.

Is that your sense of it?

NORM THAGARD, ASTRONAUT: That's my sense of it, Miles. As I've pointed out in the past with you, every flight that I was up on the flight deck, it looked like a snowstorm with all of the foam coming off of that tank. And since we've only had a problem on one flight out of over 100, it tells you, it's a low probability event. So, it very much depends on where it comes off, how big it is, and where it hits.

O'BRIEN: You know, what's interesting about it is, we're seeing some things that clearly have been there since day one. And you flew almost from day one.

The most photographed shuttle mission ever was -- shuttle launch ever was yesterday. And then while they're in space, they'll begin today -- they're going to begin a painstaking process. They'll use this big, long boom to go across the leading edge of the wing, make sure there's not a single dent or ding that could cause some problems.

Is it -- is it getting to a point, though, where the effort to keep the orbiter safe is -- provides so much overhead that it's maybe time to think about moving on?

THAGARD: Well, I think they already have thought about moving on. They're supposed to phase in the new vehicle, the crew exploration vehicle, to replace the shuttle. I guess the last I heard is the plan is to stop flying the shuttle in about 2010 and start using that new vehicle.

O'BRIEN: Well, but maybe -- some would suggest maybe that should happen sooner, that NASA has a full plate, and maybe, you know, because money is coming out of the science funding, for example, maybe the priorities are not where they should be right now.

What do you think of that?

THAGARD: One of the problems is, you really can't take advantage of the space station that's up there right now, unless you have a transportation system like the shuttle. That was always the problem with the Russian Mir. It was a great station, but you could take very little up there and bring even less back. With the shuttle, you can actually make that space station usable and useful.

O'BRIEN: We have some polling numbers I want to share with you as you look at some pictures of the space station there.

This is a "USA Today"-Gallup poll, and it says -- and the question was about money spent on the shuttle. We asked people if the money should be spent, better spent elsewhere. Forty-eight percent, worth the money, 48 percent -- people evenly divided on the notion of continuing the shuttle program as is.

Do you come down on flying it out until 2010, flying these 16 missions, despite the fact that we're really in kind of make-or-break country for the shuttle?

THAGARD: I think that we should continue to fly the shuttle until we have something to replace it so that we can take advantage of the facility we already have up there, the International Space Station.

And people need to keep it in perspective. It may seem like a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of things, the NASA budget is less than 1 percent. And it would be pennywise and pound foolish, because you would be mortgaging your future. Just think of all of the technology. It's the world's biggest civilian R&D program.

O'BRIEN: A final thought here. This new crew exploration vehicle, ARES I and ARES V, they call these launchers, ultimately the idea is to send people back to the moon.

Why do we need to go back to the moon? We've been there, done that, right?

THAGARD: One of the things that they'd like to find out is whether or not there is water ice on the moon, because if that were true, you would then have a source of fuel. And I think studies in the past have shown that it's actually cheaper to set up a fuel facility on the moon if there were a source of fuel like hydrogen there, than it would be to bring it up from the Earth's surface.

O'BRIEN: So, a staging point for something even more audacious, maybe a trip to Mars, huh?

THAGARD: That's exactly right. And, of course, my hope has been, and I'm sure a lot folks share that, is to ultimately go on to Mars. And I hope in my lifetime.

O'BRIEN: And you're tanned, you're rested, you're ready, you look trim. I think you'd probably take a ride. Wouldn't you?

THAGARD: All they have to do is call.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thanks a lot, Norm Thagard. Always a pleasure seeing you.

Norm Thagard, former astronaut -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Miles.

Stop blaming your parents for how you turned out as an adult. It's probably all your brother's fault, or your sister's fault. We'll take a look at a surprising new study ahead.

And later, "Chappelle's Show" heads back to Comedy Central without the star's blessing. The battle over the show's lost episodes, that's ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Parents and child has long been the marquee relationship for psychologists and sociologists to study, but siblings, it turns out, could have a greater influence on the person you have become. New research on how siblings shape our lives is the focus of "TIME" magazine's cover story.

It's written by Jeffrey Kluger, who joins us now from Paris.

Thanks for joining us.

JEFFREY KLUGER, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: I can't believe this has never been studied much before.

KLUGER: Well, it's funny. Researchers have generally idealized or almost fetishized the parent-child relationship. And specifically the mother-child relationship. And if siblings were studied at all, it was more a peripheral study, birth order.

And we've all heard those studies, and there is some truth in them, but that only takes you part of the way. And the real study now is digging in to how siblings serve as a sort of template for all the other relationships we'll have in our lives. Training ground for all other relationships.

COSTELLO: I can hear all mothers out there thanking you, because, you know, it's always the mother's fault whatever happens to the child.

KLUGER: Right. Well, mothers -- mothers get a big absolution here.

COSTELLO: Good. I'm glad to hear it.

OK. Here's a statistic. By age 11, 33 percent of children devote free time to siblings, more than parents, friends, teachers, and other kids. That's a large amount of time.

KLUGER: That's right. Kids devote -- even by the time kids are adolescents they're devoting 10 hours a week to activities with their siblings. And Latin-American families, Mexican-American families, it's over 17 hours.

Now, that doesn't seem like a whole lot in the course of a week. But when you factor in school, activities, sleep time, meal time, homework, it's virtually all your free time.

COSTELLO: OK. So, let's say you have a bullying older brother. How does that shape you as an adult?

KLUGER: Well, it can shape you in a number of ways. But one of the key studies that we looked at in this article suggests that the conflict resolution skills you learn at home you quickly put to work in the classroom and elsewhere.

There's a very comprehensive study that looked at kids at 2 years old to sort of get their baseline temperament. Came back and observed them at 5 years old to see how think interacted with their siblings and to analyze their conflict level. And then followed them in to their school years, up until age 15, and found that the ones who had developed the ability to resolve conflicts somewhat peacefully at home were the ones who did just as well in the classroom.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Where does that leave the only child?

KLUGER: Well, that's a very good question. And the idea, the stereotype the only child used to be that they were baby kings, little princelings who grew up with the sense that the moon and stars revolve around them. And to an extent, kids, only children come into life with a higher risk for that kind of sense of entitlement.

But the fact is, particularly now, when there's so many two- income families and single parents and, therefore, a lot more daycare and outside activities available, even singletons are getting the kind of socialization that multiple sibs gets. But they do have to scramble a little bit more for those opportunities, as opposed to singletons, who have full-time total immersion connectedness with peers -- built-in peers.

COSTELLO: Fascinating. Thank you for joining us. Especially from Paris, where I could be doing a lot more interesting things.

KLUGER: Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: "TIME" magazine's Jeffrey Kluger.

KLUGER: It's beautiful here.

COSTELLO: Oh, I bet it is. I know it is, actually.

Thanks again.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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