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Nancy Grace

Two Serial Killers May Be Operating Around Phoenix

Aired July 14, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking developments tonight. Police now acknowledge two serial killers roaming the desert in the city of Phoenix. Tonight: Can a man now behind bars help crack the case? Another name added to the long list of victims there in Phoenix. With 40 attacks, 11 dead, police now working 24/7 to break the case.
And tonight, a CIA undercover operative whose secret ID was handed over to reporters on a silver platter. But tonight, she is fighting back, naming V.P. Dick Cheney, top aide Lewis "Scooter" Libby and high-powered White House adviser Karl Rove in a lawsuit.

Also tonight, crisis in the Middle East. Will it affect U.S. security? Our friend, CNN`s Anderson Cooper, live in Israel. Tonight, we take your calls.

First to Phoenix.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me assure you that we will not rest until we do track these people down. Whether they`re in a city of 3 million or a city of 20 million, we`re going to find the people that are responsible for these crimes, and we will bring them to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Who is the serial killer stalking the city of Phoenix, another stalking the greater area between Tempe and Phoenix? Out to Jayme West, reporter with Newsradio 620 KTAR. What`s the latest? I understand a guy has been in custody for the killing of a 19-year-old girl, Georgia Thomas (SIC). At first, I heard Phoenix police say there was irrefutable evidence he was linked to other crimes. Now is that all wrong, Jayme?

JAYME WEST, NEWSRADIO 620 KTAR: Actually, it -- well, there are some corrections there. James Mullins was arrested in Kentucky on a burglary charge in December and extradited to Tempe for the murder of 19-year-old Georgia Thompson (ph) back in September. He confessed to the crime, was adamant that he committed it. However, Phoenix police are saying they have irrefutable evidence that he did not commit that crime, that it was actually the work of the "Baseline rapist."

Now, today, just happening this afternoon, James Mullins, after seven months, has recanted his confession, saying he is not the person that killed the strip club worker.

GRACE: You know, an incredible series of events leading up to the arrest of Mullins. But can he, from behind bars, help crack the case of not one but two serial killers roaming the area of Phoenix and Tempe? And speaking of a recantation, it`s Trial 101. At first, police thought they may have had something, but then the guy, Mullins, recants -- in other words, takes back a confession.

Not that unusual, Renee Rockwell.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, it`s not. And Nancy, that`s why good police work indicates that you can`t stop once you get a confession, you`ve got to keep going, in case they recant.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. ANDY HILL, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT: This so-called "Baseline rapist" we actually believe is a serial killer, is somebody that is a predator, that`s been around for about a year now.

This person is lurking. He`s hanging around outside. We have not seen him -- or anyone has not seen him with a vehicle. He is approaching people, sometimes trying to initiate some minor conversation or seeming to have some kind of and interaction because he goes ahead and strikes, which is why we are encouraging people to understand the importance of not having a confrontation but immediately trying to get to a safe area and call 911 for suspicious activity.

It began with several people, two men and a woman, that were hanging around outside by a bus stop. It went over to two women that were walking by a park, and then it became an armed robbery that turned into a carjacking, and a crime after that, where he made them drive to another location. And then, of course, those types of things escalated to the abductions and homicides.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That was Sergeant Andy Hill with the Phoenix police, who gave us an exclusive interview earlier this week, as we try to unravel not one but two serial killers stalking Phoenix and Tempe.

Now, this guy, taken into custody, as our reporter pointed out, originally in Kentucky -- earlier this week, Phoenix police announced they had forensic evidence irrefutably linking the September 8 killing of Georgia Thompson, a 19-year-old girl who hadn`t been living in the Phoenix area for long -- she had just moved there from Idaho -- linking her killing to the "Baseline killer." Then all of the sudden, you`ve got a guy confessing to the killing, James Mullins. Now he recants.

So back to Jayme West with 620 KTAR. What do we really have? What do we really know about these two killers, Jayme?

WEST: Well, what we know is very, very little. The Baseline killer, we have somewhat of a composite sketch from one of the victims. However, he`s apparently been known to wear disguises, according to detectives. That sketch really isn`t something you can go on. We know he lurks in isolated areas, waiting for small groups of people or single people to be in an isolated area where he can attack.

As far as the serial shooter goes, who is a completely separate serial killer, this person apparently shoots people at random from a vehicle, people riding their bikes, walking, sitting outside. This usually happens between 10:00 PM and 4:00 AM. So far, 34 shootings and linked to 4 murders, plus several animals being killed.

GRACE: You know, that is highly unusual -- to psychotherapist Leslie Austin -- the fact that you`ve got the Baseline rapist, serial killer. Then you have the random, as I`m calling him, serial killer, who is shooting animals, horses and people. Isn`t that an unusual mix, animals, horses, dogs, people?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it`s very common that someone who tortures or maims or kills animals with any frequency -- it`s a first step towards hurting human beings. And probably, what this person is after is the thrill of being mysterious and powerful. It`s easy to pick on an innocent animal, and it`s easy to shoot from a distance. And it`s a very twisted way of feeling powerful.

GRACE: But doesn`t that differentiate the serial killer, as I call him, the random serial killer who seems to shoot at random, from others? I mean, how often do you hear of adult killers torturing and maiming and killing animals, as well?

AUSTIN: Yes. We have two very different profiles here and probably two different sets of motivations, which is one reason why I`m sure the police are so sure they`re dealing with two separate people. The way they`re doing it, the motivations, the contact with their victims, all of those showed different patterns and different kinds of psychopathy.

GRACE: Out to veteran criminal profiler Deborah Schurman-Kauflin. Welcome, Deborah. Thank you for being with us tonight. You`ve been taking a very close look at all of these cases. Let`s talk about the toll, how many bodies, how many attacks, how many rapes that we know of, and what you see as a profiler.

DEBORAH SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, this is a very dangerous situation, where we have two killers striking at random. The body counts are mounting. And we have two very separate profiles. We`ve got the Baseline rapist serial killer, who`s, I would say, probably a very depressed individual, very rigid and set in his ways, feels special because can he kill and get away with it, versus the serial shooter, who`s killing the animals, as well. That is somebody who, as was mentioned before, is looking for a thrill and looking to be important. So we`ve got two very different people striking here, but striking random victims. And so far, very few leads in the case.

GRACE: You know, that`s also unusual, Jayme West. Jayme`s with us from 620 KTAR. Very few leads. I want to talk to you, Jayme, about the Baseline killer. He was originally called the Baseline rapist. Now it`s rapist/killer. I understand he`s got 19 to 20 attacks under his belt, but 6 now, 6 murders now attributed to him?

WEST: That`s right. Actually, that number has climbed to 21 assaults, robberies, kidnappings and murders. The most recent murder, they believe, that`s related to the Baseline rapist, was that of a 19-year-old young woman named Carmen Miranda (ph), who was walking along a sidewalk in Scottsdale last month. She had just gotten off work. She`d only been in the country for a few weeks and was training to be a barista at a local coffee house. She was shot in the back as she was walking down the sidewalk between 9:00 and 10:00 o`clock at night.

GRACE: So the Baseline doesn`t always rape, then kill?

WEST: No, not always. And I`m going to have to apologize for that. That shooting was actually related to the serial shooter. This can be confusing. The Baseline rapist...

GRACE: Gotcha. It can be very confusing because, I mean, in a city like Phoenix, I think it`s got a very low crime rate, suddenly, police acknowledging two serial killers.

WEST: Right.

GRACE: They`re both -- they`re both -- the MO for both of them is gunshot wound to kill. And you`ve got one who is raping in addition to killing, and you`ve got the other, who is shooting at random.

Let`s talk about what we know. One of them has this much of an ID. He is between 5-6 and 6 feet tall, light-skinned black male, believed to be bald or shaved head, but then also wears a wig that looks to me like dreads and a Gilligan-type hat. What can you tell me about spotting in any vehicle, Jayme?

WEST: No vehicles associated with the Baseline killer. Apparently, he has approached his victims on foot. In fact, his latest victim, which did happen last month, was at a car wash in Phoenix, a woman who was washing her car late at night, and he approached her. There was some kind of verbal exchange before he abducted her in her own vehicle.

As far as the serial shooter goes, who last struck July 8 with two shootings 20 minutes apart...

GRACE: Whew!

WEST: ... in east Phoenix, was apparently shooting from a vehicle. And they believe most of his 34 shootings have happened from a vehicle.

GRACE: Is that where the sedan or van comes in?

WEST: Yes...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... sedan or van?

WEST: A medium-sized light-color four-door sedan, possible vehicle.

GRACE: Wow. OK...

WEST: What`s amazing is out of all of these shootings, we don`t have a very concrete description of a person or a vehicle.

GRACE: Now, interesting about the Baseline rapist killer. He has now 21 attacks to his credit, but he didn`t start actually killing his victims until, I believe it was, August or September. Take a listen to what Sergeant Andy Hill with Phoenix police had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The incidents began last August with sexual assaults, robberies and kidnappings. And as you know, it took time to begin to process those cases, and eventually, we began to tie them, associate them. But on December 12 of last year, 39-year-old Tina Washington (ph) was murdered. That was our first murder that we became aware of. And since then, we`ve now got a total of 5 homicides. And as a matter of fact, we may be looking at a 6th homicide from another jurisdiction. And those homicides are tied together by forensic evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Everyone, we are breaking into our coverage of the Phoenix serial killers and going straight out to our friend, CNN correspondent Anderson Cooper, kind enough to join us tonight. Anderson, as you can see, is there in Israel, in the midst of yet another round of extreme violence.

Anderson, thank you for being with us. Today, Hezbollah says, Let it then be an open war. Anderson, what touched this off?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this all began, of course, you know, three days ago with the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, the killing of several others, as well. Israel has responded with large amounts of force, saying that they want the return of their soldiers.

But it has really just escalated Nancy. As you know, over the last three days there have been now more than 400, according to Israeli military sources, 400 Katyusha rockets attacked by Hezbollah into northern Israel. There were about 100 rockets fired into this area in northern Israel alone today. Israel, of course, is responding in kind. We were just out at an artillery battery, where they were firing 155-millimeter shells some 15, 20 kilometers into Lebanon.

This thing shows no end of letting up, Nancy. It only looks worse with those comments you just read from the leader of Hezbollah, which were made later today -- earlier today.

GRACE: Anderson, the citizens of the coastal town of Haifa were forced underground into bomb shelters. Where are you right now?

COOPER: I`m in a town called Nahariya, and bomb shelters here are a way of life. The building I`m standing right next too, there`s probably -- there`s room for about 300 people in a shelter. There`s a number of soldiers there right now, a number of children we saw earlier tonight.

The town here is basically deserted. You know, this is a tourist destination. On a Friday night, when I arrived here, it would have been packed with tourists and residents out strolling around. The streets are completely empty. People have left this town, and those who are remaining, Nancy, are in bomb shelters right now.

GRACE: Anderson, how has the Hezbollah gotten such a stronghold in Lebanon?

COOPER: Well, Nancy, that goes back, you know, some 15 years. In the settlement -- the peace settlement in Lebanon to end the civil war back in 1990, Hezbollah was allowed to retain their weapons, and with those weapons have come power. They now have seats, of course, in the Lebanese parliament. And Lebanon doesn`t have an army which can really disarm Hezbollah in the south. So essentially, the southern border of Lebanon is controlled, in many ways, by Hezbollah forces, and the Lebanese army, even if the Lebanon government wanted to oust them, would have a very hard time doing that. It may not even be possible for them to do that. And of course, politically, that is a very difficult thing for them to do, with Hezbollah representatives inside the Lebanese government.

So they have weapons. And they have a lot of support, obviously, from Iran. They have support from Syria. And they show no sign of backing down. If anything, the rhetoric from Hezbollah today is more serious than ever.

GRACE: Well, it has ratcheted up, Anderson, especially after the home of their leader in Beirut was bombed. He was not harmed. Was that intentional, to bomb when he wasn`t there?

COOPER: I can`t speak for the Israeli forces, whether they intended to bomb when he wasn`t there. Certainly, in the past, the Israeli military has targeted leaders of groups which they oppose and groups which they deem as terrorist organizations. They`ve killed a number of high officials from Hamas. And certainly, it would not be a surprise if they targeted an official from Hezbollah.

GRACE: Anderson, there are thousands of Americans trapped. There are a lot of tourists. I was reading tonight about an entire group from Dearborn, Michigan, that is trapped there, can`t get out. What can you tell me about Americans trapped there?

COOPER: Well, there are a lot of Americans in Beirut. It`s estimated some 20,000. You know, there`s an American university in Beirut, a lot of American citizens there. What the U.S. government is saying is, You need to get out, but they`re saying, Don`t try to get out just yet, that it may be too dangerous. You know, the airport has been shut down. The U.S. government enabled a few flights to be able to leave, but that airport is shut down. You cannot fly in or out of Beirut International Airport right now.

The only way to get in and out of the country is a very long drive. It requires going through Lebanon, going through Syria -- excuse me, I should say going through Jordan, going through Syria just to get into Beirut. So the U.S. government telling Americans there, Look, you need to get out. Non-essential U.S. government personnel need to get out, but not just yet. Sit tight. Register with the embassy there and await word from the U.S. on when it`s safe to leave.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Anderson Cooper joining us live from Israel tonight, in the midst of yet another round of violence. Back out to Anderson. Anderson, you have been with an Israeli unit as they were firing rounds in the pitch dark. Firing on who?

COOPER: Well, firing on what they believe to be Hezbollah rocket positions. Basically, what the central command, which is based out of Tel Aviv, will be monitoring the border, any time they see Hezbollah forces firing some Katyusha rockets -- and these Katyusha rockets, Nancy -- these are not, you know, precise, coordinated, targeted rockets. These are basically point and shoot. And they land, and as we know, they can hit soldiers but they also hit civilians. It seems pretty random. One hit just down the street here on Friday. There was another one that hit over in that direction on Friday. Two people were killed today nearby, a woman and her grandson. A woman was killed in this town just yesterday. So the Katyusha rockets are not -- not, you know, precise, precision equipment. More than 400 of them landed in northern Israel in the last three days.

Israeli forces are basically using big American-made artillery batteries to position and fire back at what they say are rocket batteries firing on any part of northern Israel. And it`s a strange thing, Nancy. You know, you`re in the middle of the dark. You find yourself in this artillery battery. It`s spread out. You can`t really see what`s going on. And then just moments of light exploding, as these huge American-made artillery pieces just open up fire, four or five shells being lobbed, you know, some seven, eight miles into Lebanon. You don`t see where they hit. You don`t know where they`re hitting. But it is -- it is -- you know, what Israel has is firepower, and a great advantage they have with that, Nancy.

GRACE: You mentioned American rockets, but the Hezbollah, where are they getting their rockets?

COOPER: Well, according to the Israeli government, the two rockets that were fired into Haifa -- the Israeli government is saying that those rockets were made in Iran. That has not been independently confirmed, but that is the belief on the part of the Israeli government, those rockets being manufactured in Iran, being used by Hezbollah. And of course, Hezbollah does receive support from Iran, as well as from Syria, and has over the years since they`ve been formed.

GRACE: Hey, Anderson, before you get away, earlier today, Bush announced that he would not take part in telling Israel how to run their military, all right? Understood. But how does Israel line up with Lebanon? What are their feelings about Lebanon allowing Hezbollah this stronghold?

COOPER: Well, Israel certainly believes Lebanon should be playing a role in curtailing Hezbollah`s activities. The U.S. government is trying to caution Israel, saying, Look, you know, there`s a government now in place in Lebanon which has sort of broken free from Syria. And that happened, really, just in the last year or so with what they called the "Cedar revolution" in Beirut, in Lebanon. And so the U.S. government is basically saying to Israel, Look, don`t push the Lebanese too much. Don`t back them into a corner too much because that government could fall and a more pro-Syrian government could take over. And long term, that`s not going to do anything for the peace in the region.

But certainly, Israel wants to see the Lebanese government and is holding the Lebanese government at least partially responsible for the activities of this armed group...

GRACE: Right.

COOPER: ... which control their southern border.

GRACE: And quickly, Anderson, as to American security, what does it mean for the homeland of America, if anything? And number two, aren`t you supposed to be wearing a flak jacket and a helmet?

COOPER: Well, the first question first, the one I guess that`s easier probably to answer. In terms of what -- how Americans are impacted -- I mean, certainly, a lot of people have relatives in this region, both in Lebanon and here, so I know there are a lot of people around the United States watching. Also, prices at the pump -- I mean, oil now went up to $77 a barrel. What happens here is going to continue to affect Americans in ways large and small.

And you know, I`ve got my flak vest, I got my helmet right here. And you know, things have been pretty quiet over the last couple of hours.

GRACE: OK.

COOPER: And you know, you kind of -- you wear it as much as you can, and I`ll be wearing it a lot in the next 12 or 24 hours or so, Nancy.

GRACE: Be safe, friend. Come home.

COOPER: I will.

GRACE: Anderson Cooper, reporting from Israel. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: OK, we`re back to our Phoenix story, two serial killers stalking the Phoenix-Tempe area. Out to Dr. Warner Spitz, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. Dr. Spitz, how are they so sure, since there`s no ID, that these cases are related?

DR. WARNER SPITZ, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, they probably had similar modus operandi, and they had similar patterns and similar profiles. And so that`s what leads them to...

GRACE: What about DNA and the caliber of the bullets? Wouldn`t that be a great start?

SPITZ: Well, the caliber of the bullets -- not only the caliber, but they can match bullets besides the caliber. The caliber is only one little thing, but on top of that, there are striations on the bullet that match the barrel of the gun. But if they have the bullet, of course, they do -- those things are matchable, and they`re very significant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of all of these three series, the thing about them all is that all of the victims have been random. They are people that are alone, walking by themselves, standing, riding a bicycle, pushing a bicycle in the late hours of the night between 10:00 at night and 3:00 in the morning. We believe that the suspects are suspects who may be involved in the shootings are driving in a car and shooting the victims from a vehicle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Before we take to you the story of a CIA operative who has been unmasked, her I.D. handed over straight to reporters on a silver platter, let`s go back out to Phoenix for just another moment.

Are we any closer to cracking the case of not one but two serial killers stalking Phoenix and Tempe? To Jayme West of Newsradio 620 KTAR, any new tips, Jayme?

WEST: I`ll tell you what, Silent Witness has never seen anything like this. I visited the call center yesterday. And in the first two days since the $100,000 reward was announced through Silent Witness, they took in 2,000 tips. Now, in a normal month, they only take in 1,500, so they`ve brought in extra officers to help handle the phones, and they are taking every tip seriously.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the assistant to the Phoenix mayor, Mayor Phil Gordon. His name is Scott Phelps.

Scott, thank you for being with us. Scott, the residents there in Phoenix and Tempe have got to be scared out of their wits.

SCOTT PHELPS, SENIOR ASSISTANT TO PHOENIX MAYOR: They`re nervous, but they don`t consider -- I don`t think they consider this to be a city under siege. We`re a very large city. We`re 500 square miles, over 1.5 million people.

And we are encouraging people, you know, obviously don`t take unnecessary chances. Don`t put yourself purposefully in a dangerous situation. But you need to lead your lives. I think that`s one of the first lessons we learned after 9/11.

But when you go out, be aware of your surroundings. Tell your loved ones where you`re going and when you expect to be back. Take a cell phone. Take a whistle. And keep your eyes and your ears open.

When you have cases that are random like this, with no particular link and no particular motive, we need for people to see and hear things, and that`s what we think is going to lead to a break in this case.

GRACE: Mr. Phelps, Mr. Phelps, no offense, because I know...

PHELPS: Sure, sure.

GRACE: ... that you and the mayor are trying to do everything you can, I know you are. The reward tonight up to $100,000. But what good is a whistle going to do when you`ve got a sniper riding by and a van taking shots at horses, dogs and people? When are you going to blow that whistle?

PHELPS: Look, exactly. And it`s dangerous out there, and we need for people to understand that they need to be aware of their surroundings. And even after we catch these two monsters -- and we will -- the police department is working so hard.

You alluded to the number of calls into Silent Witness. We have beat officers, after they`re done with their shifts, they head over to the Silent Witness office and volunteer their time to field those calls.

GRACE: You`re right, 24/7, as Scott Phelps was telling us. He`s united with the mayor, trying to break the case of two serial killers in Phoenix and Tempe.

Rosie, let`s go to the lines. Brandon in Indiana, hi, Brandon.

CALLER: Hello. We love your show. I`m 16, and my sister`s 13...

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: ... and we watch you every night.

GRACE: Ah, future crime fighters.

CALLER: Thank you. And my question is: Has DNA from the Baseline Rapist been found? And if so, has it been run through the DNA database to see if he`s been previously arrested?

GRACE: Excellent question. Somebody`s been watching "CSI." There has to be a DNA match, because you know what? At least between the victims, Brandon in Indiana, because the police keep saying that they`re convinced one person, the Baseline Rapist, is responsible for "x" number -- I believe it`s six now -- of the murders, after 21 attacks. There has to be a DNA match.

To Jayme West, as far as comparing it to a DNA database, do you know anything about that?

WEST: I know that it`s a lot -- takes a lot longer than the hour it takes during "CSI." But I notice the detectives are working very hard with whatever physical evidence they have and trying to get it into the system as quickly as they can, match it with whatever they can. They want to get this terrible serial killer off the streets.

GRACE: To Carmen Markakis, a veteran defense attorney, Carmen, I was speaking to Dr. Spitz earlier about how these cases are being linked. Now, earlier they were linked by bullets, by small-caliber bullet, but serial killers don`t always use the same M.O.

Very typically they stay within their own racial barriers. For instance, white serial killers kill white people, and so forth. But here we are seeing crossover. He may not even be sticking with the same M.O.

At this juncture, Carmen, how do you think police are agreeing that all of these cases are linked?

CARMEN MARKAKIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that what the police have discovered, Nancy, is that a small-caliber weapon has been used in most of these crimes. The small-caliber weapon is used usually in the city, where the ballistics is very hard to determine, because the projectiles disintegrate.

Also, you`ve had over a dozen of these crimes, Nancy, occur during the hours of 8:00 to 11:00 p.m., so they`re trying to use profiling to determine the possible suspect, in an effort to prevent any more of these offenses and also to determine who the offender was, demographically, and be able to find a potential suspect to link these crimes.

GRACE: Very quickly, before we go to our story of the CIA operative, let`s go out to a callers. Pat in Louisiana, hi, Pat.

CALLER: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: My question is, I want to know if they`ve checked homeless shelters or shelters. This guy`s got to live somewhere.

GRACE: What about it, Jayme West, have they?

WEST: Nancy, I believe they are checking every possible lead and every possible tip. Some of the tips coming in are about transients lurking in areas. And you can bet, with the team of detectives they have on both of these cases, that they`re checking every possible avenue.

GRACE: Well, we know at least one of the killers has access to a vehicle.

Very quickly, everyone, as we switch gears to our next case, let`s go to tonight`s "Case Alert," Rosie.

A Nebraska sex offender gets probation instead of prison because a judge says he`s too short. He is now classified as a high-risk offender. Richard Thompson, convicted in multiple sex assaults on a child, is now labeled a class-three offender, the single highest level.

Nebraska judge Kristine Cecava, you are in contempt! Cecava ruled Thompson was short, at 5`1", too short to go to prison.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The lawsuit claims that Valerie Plame was the target of revenge, that her name as a covert CIA agent was leaked after her husband, Joe Wilson, criticized the administration`s reasons for going to war in Iraq.

In 2002, the CIA sent Wilson to Niger. It was a fact-finding mission. Was there any truth to the administration`s claims that Saddam Hussein had been trying to buy yellowcake uranium, trying to develop nuclear weapons?

Wilson says he found no evidence of that. And in July of 2003, he wrote an opinion piece in the "New York Times." He accused the administration of twisting pre-war intelligence to justify taking action in Iraq.

Days later, columnist Robert Novak reported that it was Wilson`s wife who had suggested her husband be sent on that fact-finding mission. Referencing sources, Novak identified Plame as a CIA operative.

The column triggered an investigation into whether someone in the White House had deliberately unmasked a CIA agent. But after nearly three years, the only person facing charges is former vice presidential chief of staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby. He`s charged with perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to a grand jury about conversations prosecutors say he had about Plame. He`s pleaded not guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Thank you to Daryn Kagan for that summary of the Plame lawsuit. Straight out to Brian Todd, CNN correspondent.

Brian, what the hay is going on?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it`s a pretty sweeping legal action, Nancy. They filed this lawsuit yesterday in U.S. district court here in Washington. Today, the Wilsons held a news conference talking about how they had been damaged by the alleged actions of the vice president, and Scooter Libby, and Karl Rove, and, interestingly enough, 10 other John Does in the government, so they`ve laid out their case.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, I don`t like the sound of that, "John Doe." Who are they?

TODD: That`s interesting, isn`t it? Yes, today the Wilsons` attorneys were pressed on that. They did not identify the John Does. They only say in the documents that they are government officials who were either at the top levels of the Bush administration or political appointees close to people at the top. But we don`t know who they are, and we got the impression today in the news conference that the attorneys may not know who all of them are.

GRACE: To national reporter with the "Washington Times," Charlie Hurt, Charlie, this is a major, major legal lawsuit, if it`s true, to intentionally unmask a CIA operative. You know, a lot of people refer to her as just having a desk job. That`s what operatives do: They transfer documents; they get their mitts on information and pass it along. It`s not like "MI:3." That`s not what operatives do, typically, Charlie.

CHARLIE HURT, REPORTER, "WASHINGTON TIMES": And this is a case that has been going on for more than three years. You know, as you just pointed out, it has led to the indictment of one of the top officials in the White House.

But beyond that, it wound up -- a reporter from the "New York Times" wound up in jail. It has been splashed on the front pages of newspapers in Washington for the better part of three years now, and it just seems like it`s never ending.

GRACE: To Julian Epstein, strategist and attorney, Julian, do you believe this is all about politics or is there really a cause of action at the heart of this?

JULIAN EPSTEIN, STRATEGIST AND ATTORNEY: Well, the cause of action, Nancy, if you read the complaint, is a civil rights action. They`re saying that by retaliating against Mr. Wilson and Ms. Plame that their civil rights were violated for their exercise of First Amendment rights.

But there`s a very important piece of information that your set-up piece missed. The Bush administration has always said that the mistakes it made about pre-war intelligence were honest mistakes. What Joe Wilson did, by revealing the fact that the Niger claim, the Niger yellowcake uranium claim was based on forged documents, he also revealed some information that indicated that the Bush administration may have known that that information was false, yet it didn`t stop the president from using that information in his 2003 State of the Union address.

So what happened after the report was made and after Mr. Wilson published his op-ed piece in the "New York Times" was that the CIA came to the White House and said, "Yes, we goofed." But rather than the White House saying that we goofed, the White House went on a jihad against Mr. Wilson and had not one but multiple conversations -- multiple conversations with multiple officials -- to reporters in an attempt to take revenge on Mr. Wilson...

GRACE: OK, wait a minute.

EPSTEIN: ... and to discredit him and the point...

GRACE: Julian, question...

EPSTEIN: And the key point about this, Nancy, is that the reason that the White House took such extraordinary steps was because this revelation had the potential of showing that the Bush administration had purposefully, willfully, intentionally misled and used misleading information about pre- war intelligence. And that`s why the White House reacted in this way.

GRACE: OK, I want to get back to the original question. Let`s talk to Larry Klayman, attorney and conservative strategist.

Is this all about politics? Or is there a legitimate complaint in the middle of all this paper, all of this legal back and forth?

LARRY KLAYMAN, ATTORNEY, CONSERVATIVE STRATEGIST: Nancy, no one condones releasing information about CIA operatives. You can`t condone that. But the fact is, is that this woman, Valerie Plame, her name was out there. In fact, Joe Wilson himself had made it known that she was a CIA operative. And what happens in Washington, there`s again, whether you`re a Democrat...

GRACE: When? When did Joe Wilson do that?

KLAYMAN: It`s in various publications. It`s been published over the last several years.

And I`m not condoning this. Believe me, I`m not. But the fact is, is that these kinds of allegations are frequently used for political purposes or for strategic purposes.

And when I was running Judicial Watch and I helped uncover the Chinagate scandal, and I deposed the CIA operative of John Wong (ph), underground in the U.S. courthouse, the Justice Department, then run by Clinton, walked that CIA operative right out of a public courthouse. He was filmed, and they tried to accuse me of leaking information about the undercover nature of this agent.

He wasn`t undercover at all. And right after -- you can appreciate this as a good lawyer -- right after we had a hearing on that, I walk out, and the government lawyer says to me, the Clinton Justice Department lawyer, "Well, Larry, I guess you`re now going to settle the case," because this is just like Daniel Ellsberg of Pentagon Papers, a threat of criminal prosecution, using it for an advantage.

And I said a couple of expletive deleted, and I walked out, and I continued on with my case.

But the point I`m trying to make is, is that the Democrats here and the person who filed this case, Erwin Chemerinsky of Duke University, my alma mater, and Prosgala Rose (ph), they`re liberals, they`re bringing this case for political purposes. It doesn`t matter whether they win or lose.

GRACE: Right.

KLAYMAN: They`re hoping that they`re going to get that position on video and embarrass this administration.

GRACE: Well, we`ve gone to Democratic strategist Julian Epstein and conservative strategist Larry Klayman. And actually, listening to the two of them, both entirely correct in their facts, it does sound like politics as usual.

Let`s go to the lines. Amy in West Virginia. Hi, Amy.

CALLER: Hello. I have a question. I understand that they have signed a book deal. Do you think that will have any bearing on the case?

GRACE: I`m sorry. Would you repeat?

CALLER: I understand that they have signed a book deal, the Wilsons. Do you think that will have any bearing on the case?

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: What about it, Brian Todd? Is that true?

TODD: I didn`t hear what the called said that they had found.

GRACE: Book deal. Book deal. Money.

TODD: Oh, a book deal. Yes, yes, there is. We have that information, that Valerie Plame-Wilson has signed a fairly large book deal with Simon and Schuster. We asked that company how much it`s for. They wouldn`t tell us, but they did confirm that she has signed that book deal. So we do know that, and we believe that she had a book deal previously but that she switched publishers.

GRACE: OK. Wait a minute. I had my control room in my ear. Brian, do we know how much the book deal is for?

TODD: No, we don`t.

GRACE: Brian!

TODD: We did try to get that information -- I`m sorry, we don`t know it. We asked them, and we pressed them several ways, both -- the reporters pressed the Wilsons today about that and we`ve pressed the publishers, and they`re not revealing anything.

GRACE: Well, OK, here is evidence of another undercover operative, and do not laugh. Roll it, Rosie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIA CHILD, COOK: With the OSS organization, we had a number of women, but we were all office help, typewriting and secretarial work. And I was a file clerk all during the war.

I had some friends who were in that organization so I applied. And they just wanted bodies. And so I ended up in his private files, which was wonderful. If you`re part of the files, you`re an integral part, though on a very low level. I finally got an oak leaf cluster -- no, I got a good conduct medal with an oak leaf cluster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: So how often do you see a chef with a cooking show get a medal from her government with an oak leaf cluster on it? That`s right, Julia Child, undercover operative. She says she was just a secretary. Valerie Plame says she had a desk job.

Let`s go out to the lines. Stacey in Georgia. Hi, Stacey.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love your show. Thank you for having me on.

GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: I was just wondering: Was Ms. Plame`s life ever in jeopardy because of this leak?

GRACE: Interesting. What about it, Brian Todd?

TODD: The Wilsons claim in the lawsuit that both she and her husband feared for their safety and feared for the safety of their children. I was the one who asked specifically at the news conference today, their attorney, were there any specific threats against them? He wouldn`t comment.

GRACE: What about, Charlie Hurt? Charlie is with us from the "Washington Times." Were they ever in danger?

HURT: Well, they certainly -- that`s certainly a major lynchpin of the lawsuit. But you know, going back to the thing about the politics that you were talking about earlier, you know, everything in this town, as you know, winds up becoming all about politics.

GRACE: I try not to go to D.C. for that very reason, Charlie. Go ahead.

HURT: You`re a smart woman. But, you know, so many people looked at Joe Wilson and listened to him for the last several years -- he was on the campaign with John Kerry -- and decided that they didn`t like him. But at the end of the day, his...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched all of our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Nine murders, 40 shootings. Serial sex assaults have brought a chill to the desert town. Who is stalking the city of Phoenix?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, there`s a lot going on here, and it`s scary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re all working 24/7 to get these guys off the street. We`ll never, never stop chasing these criminals.

GRACE: Tonight, music icon Michael Jackson`s legal team tells a former business partner to "Beat it." A former producer says Jackson owes him nearly $2 million.

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: We have to get this done. We want it done before Christmas. Put together a business plan.

GRACE: Richard, he says, "We`re business partners. Let`s conquer the business world together." How can he now try to back away from being in business with a porn producer?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, he can`t. He`s killing himself with that testimony.

GRACE: Well, wait a minute. You`re the defense lawyer.

Tonight, breaking news out of Florida. A Florida trial judge, Ric Howard, throws out the jury and sends everybody home in the case of John Evander Couey.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve never been through this process before personally, so I would have to say that we were surprised, because it felt that things were going the way I think he hoped them to go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All I care about is that she has left behind two children, one who is very small, who will never know her mother. I want the best for him and for her other son.

GRACE: Sarah Anne Walker -- what a beauty -- leaving behind two boys, who`ll live a life without a mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She always made me smile. She had a certain chuckle after she`d say something, you know, to kind of keep you going. She wanted nothing but the best for everyone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: That is Texas beauty Sarah Anne Walker.

Let`s stop tonight to remember Staff Sergeant Jason Ramseyer, just 28, killed, Iraq. He was from Lenore, North Carolina, a Marine platoon commander, a family man, leaves behind a widow and three children. Jason Ramseyer, American hero.

Thank you to our guests. Our biggest thank you to you for being with us tonight and all week, inviting us into your home. Nancy Grace, signing off again for tonight. See you here tomorrow night -- that`s right, we work on weekends now -- 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END