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Nancy Grace
Interview With Elizabeth Smart
Aired July 18, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the 14-year-old little girl taken from her own home in the night four years ago, the girl whose rescue was called a miracle, Elizabeth Smart, is with us for the hour, and this brave girl is taking your calls. In a bizarre legal twist in the kidnap of 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart, the couple accused of taking her from her parents` upscale home and making her a polygamous child bride -- tonight, the woman accused refuses to take her medication to stabilize her for trial, while we, the taxpayers, foot the bill.
Tonight, Elizabeth and her dad are here from Washington, and they are taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH SMART, ABDUCTED FROM HER BEDROOM OVER FOUR YEARS AGO: I just hope that no child or anybody would ever have to go through what I went through because nobody deserves to go through that. And it`s just so -- it`s horrible for people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight is a very special night here on NANCY GRACE. Joining us from Washington, the 14-year-old girl who became a household word four long years ago. Elizabeth Smart is with us, with her father. They have been on a crusade today in Washington, D.C., trying to make a difference. As you know, four long, hard years ago, this little girl was taken from her Utah home, a beautiful upscale home. It was amazing to everyone that she could be spirited away in the night.
First of all, to Elizabeth Smart. Elizabeth, thank you so much for being with us, dear.
ELIZABETH SMART: Thank you.
GRACE: What are you doing in Washington today?
ELIZABETH SMART: We have been on Capitol Hill, helping to get this bill through, pushing to get it through.
GRACE: Is Senator Orrin Hatch helping you?
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.
GRACE: Let`s go to the senator right now before we go back to Elizabeth. Senator Hatch, thank you for being with us. Explain to us what the bill is all about.
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: Well, the bill really puts the screws to those who are sexual predators, and you know, sexual offenders. You know, we have around 500,000 of them in this country that we know of, and about 150,000 of them we don`t know even where they are, even though they`re supposed to report in. This bill stop that. This bill will require them to report in regularly. If they don`t, they`re going back to jail. If they break the rules after that, they`ll have to wear a leg brace or leg monitor that we can talk to them any time we want. If they try to take that off, they`re going to get hit really hard.
So the bill also makes inroads with regard to using the Internet and using, you know, the on-line approach to try and lure young girls away.
GRACE: Senator Hatch, do you expect a lot of political wrangling? Elizabeth is there with her father, trying to make a difference on Capitol Hill. Do you believe a lot of addendums will be added and this will actually meet opposition?
HATCH: No, I don`t. As a matter of fact, I signed off on the bill this evening. We`ve got the bill worked out between the House and the Senate. I really don`t believe that anybody is going to fight it. It should come up tomorrow. And I believe we`ll get it through.
And I think we all owe, you know, Ed Smart and his beautiful daughter, Elizabeth, a great deal of thanks and a lot of others, as well, but they have particularly worked very hard. And so has John Walsh. We want to get this bill through this week so that the president can sign it on the 27th of April, which was -- would be the 25th anniversary of Adam Walsh`s death. And it`s named the Adam Walsh Bill.
So there have been some real hard -- there`s been some real hard work by a number of people, and these two good folks you have tonight, Ed and Elizabeth Smart, of course, John Walsh and others, they`ve really done a great job.
GRACE: Out to Elizabeth`s dad, who is also joining us from Capitol Hill. OK, Rosie (ph), let me know when you get hooked up to Ed Smart.
Elizabeth, you -- I don`t know, maybe you do know, how many people were praying for you, were looking for you, thought they saw you in cars that went by, calling tip lines. Did you have any idea so many people were trying to find you?
ELIZABETH SMART: I did not. At the time, I had no idea how big it was. And you know, now I`m even still surprised. I still get people coming up to me and saying, Oh, we prayed for you. And I appreciate it so much for everything everyone did.
GRACE: Oh, Elizabeth, you know, you can never know how intensely you were searched for and prayed for during all of that time. Do you let yourself think back on it, or do you try not to think about -- like a lot of crime victims, we try not to think of it sometimes.
ELIZABETH SMART: Well, you know, I said earlier today, I have so much -- so much to look forward to. I have a whole life ahead of me. It`s just not even worth looking back.
GRACE: You know, you really do. I understand you`re about to enter Brigham Young?
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.
GRACE: What are you going to study, music?
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes, I am.
GRACE: What do you want to be when you get out?
ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I`m not sure. I just -- right now, I just really enjoy music and I`m really excited, and so we`ll see where that takes me.
GRACE: Elizabeth, do you think that the members of Capitol Hill heard your voice today? What did you tell them?
ELIZABETH SMART: I just said that I think this bill is -- you know, is very important and that nobody -- nobody should have to go through, you know, what I went through. And you know, nobody deserves to be hurt like that, and that if this bill were to pass, I think it would just make America such a more -- such a safer place. You know, I really think it would make a difference.
GRACE: Elizabeth, I remember when you first went missing and literally hundreds of people were out looking for you. Now we know you were being held captive not very far away from your home at all. Did you ever hear people calling out your name, trying to find you?
ELIZABETH SMART: There was one time.
GRACE: At that moment, did you want to scream out, Here I am, help me?
ELIZABETH SMART: I mean, of course. Who wouldn`t?
GRACE: At that moment, when you knew people were looking for you, your parents were there. They were trying to find you. How did that make you feel?
ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I didn`t know how big it was. And it was -- it was good to know people were looking for me, but I -- I felt so far away, you know, I just -- it didn`t really connect at that time. And you know, and I think that...
GRACE: And you were such a little girl, Elizabeth. I mean, you were just 14 years old.
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.
GRACE: It`s hard to expect a little 14-year-old girl to react the way an adult might imagine they would react under those circumstances. You were afraid, I assume.
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.
GRACE: Did your kidnappers tell you they would hurt you or your family if you tried to get away?
ELIZABETH SMART: You know, they did. And I really am here to support the bill and not to go into what -- you know, what happened to me, what the whole -- like, what is in my past because I`m not here to give an interview on that. I`m here to help push this bill through.
GRACE: And I want you to push the bill through and I want people to hear your voice.
When we take a look back, there`s a shot of Elizabeth Smart, and here she is, four years later. And frankly, it`s a miracle that she was ever found. You know, a lot of people have seen shots of you wearing a burqa. How did you see out of that thing?
ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I`m really not going to talk about this at this time. I mean, that`s something I just don`t even look back at. And I really -- I really -- to be frankly honest, I really don`t appreciate you bringing all this up.
GRACE: I`m sorry, dear. I thought that you would speak out to other victims. But you know what? I completely understand. A lot of victims don`t want to talk about it and don`t feel like talking about it.
Let`s talk about the bill. To Senator Hatch. Senator Hatch, you said you wanted this passed by April. How likely is that to happen?
HATCH: Well, it`s going to be passed tomorrow. In my opinion, it will go through both houses. I want to compliment our colleagues in the House. It`s been tough to work this out. We`ve had people in the Senate that we`ve had to work past. We`ve had people in the House we`ve had to work past. Chairman Sensenbrenner has worked very closely with us. And frankly, I think the House deserves a lot of credit, those who have really been real hard fighters for this bill.
But it`s amazing to me that it`s taken us so long to put a bill through that is so doggone important. And you know, just look at Elizabeth. This is a courageous young girl who went through a tremendously trying time that, naturally, she doesn`t want to talk about because it wasn`t a pleasant time. Whose parents stuck in there and hung in there with her. And of course, the whole state of Utah was trying to help. And yet she was with within close proximity to her home a number of times.
Frankly, we`re just grateful she`s alive. But unfortunately, there are a lot of others who aren`t alive, who might be alive if we get tougher on these ` sexual offenders.
GRACE: Joining us now, I think we`re hooked up to Ed Smart. This is Elizabeth`s dad, who was with her there on Capitol Hill. Ed, thank you for being with us.
ED SMART, ELIZABETH`S FATHER: You bet, Nancy.
GRACE: I remember a lot times you and I talking and strategizing and praying and hoping. It`s really good to see you again, friend.
ED SMART: Thank you. Appreciate that.
GRACE: Tell me what you are doing on Capitol Hill.
ED SMART: Well, you know, I think the importance of this sex offender bill is that it creates consistency across the nation and accountability for the sex offenders. You know, right now, every state has their own. You know, all the sex offenders will gravitate towards one state that is very lenient. And you know, that`s just not the kind of society that we can allow our children to survive in. And by bringing this together, making the offenders register, and when they don`t register, they go back to jail -- I mean, that`s what it`s all about.
GRACE: You know, Ed, I`ve often wondered when we here cover missing people, unsolved cases, how you feel when you see one case after the next - - for instance, the Dylan and Shasta Groene case. The perpetrator in that case was a registered sex offenders that had made a low bond and crossed state lines. The alleged perpetrator in the Jessie Lunsford case, another registered sex offender that had jumped registration and was living catty- corner to a little girl. Those children did not live. Dylan didn`t live. Jessie Lunsford didn`t live.
When you look back on that, can you even describe your feelings when you -- you see your beautiful girl right there with you?
ED SMART: You know, I feel like I`m the luckiest man in the world. You know, you think in life, could I have one miracle, and I certainly got mine. And I`m so grateful.
You know, that`s the importance of this bill, is that there are children out there right now. In Salt Lake, we had an Amber Alert that reverted downwards because they were able to address someone that they thought was suspicious. And they`re still looking for Destiny. And right now, you know, those parents, the nightmare that they go through, the not knowing, you want that to end for them and to have their children back.
And you know, I think the Amber Alert did such a wonderful job in creating this blanket across the nation. And this is going to just improve that whole situation. You know, we rejoice when we hear about these cases of these abductors taking the children, then seeing the Amber Alert go out and them being released. And I just hope that these sex offenders really get a grip.
Over the past two or three years, as I`ve become involved in this, you know, the psychologists, clinicians have said, you know, really, the hope of any -- there is no cure, but any hope in keeping them on the straight path is knowing that they are being watched, you know? And just as in the Amber Alert, these guys know that they`re being watched and there`s going to be consequences. That`s exactly how it`s got to be on these sex offenders. And hopefully, we`re going to see a real drop.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re here to announce officially that we have found Elizabeth Smart and that she is here and well and healthy in our station. She`s with her parents, and we are in the process of interviewing her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody could identify her. I mean, she went right down into the city. She mingled with the people down there, and nobody knew who she was. And so to give up that -- I mean, it was like it happened that way for nine months. Why would it happen all of a sudden, you know, that these police -- what if they didn`t take them, or what would happen if, you know, she had to go back to them? And so it was a constant worry that her family would be hurt or she would be hurt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It was a day many of us will never forget, when we received the news that Elizabeth Smart had been found alive. And she was reunited with her father and her mother. Tonight, she is on Capitol Hill, along with her father and Senator Orrin Hatch, as they reach out to Congress for change.
To Senator Orrin Hatch. Where will all the money come from to set up the national sex offender registry?
HATCH: Well, we have to put the money up, and we intend to do that. The fact of the matter is, is that, first, we got to get this bill passed. And it`s been really an ordeal that get it passed, something that I think you should snap your fingers and get done. But sometimes, it`s very difficult in Congress.
I just -- you know, I just -- I just want to pay tribute to everybody who`s worked hard on it. I have a special staffer who was detailed to me by the Secret Service, and he has taken this as a crusade. His name is Ken Valentine (ph). And let me tell you, he`s done a terrific job on this bill. And of course, others in the Senate have done a good job, as well, and staffers in the House. But it just took a tough chairman over there and some of us over on the Senate side to get it done.
GRACE: Why do you say it was an ordeal? Of course, I would expect everything on Capitol Hill to be, you know, like wet cats in a barrel. But I agree with you, this is a no-brainer. So why has it become an ordeal?
HATCH: Well, it shouldn`t have become an ordeal. But you know, getting the language right between the two houses is sometimes very difficult. The conference meetings were not always easy or difficult. Ask John Walsh of "America`s Most Wanted." I mean, he has just been all over both houses for, you know, a couple of years here -- actually, for many years now -- and this is the first time that we`ve really come up with a bill that really will make a dent in -- in -- you know, in these awful sexual predators, these sexual offenders, and frankly, keep track of them. It`s pretty pathetic when you stop and think that 150,000 of them, we have no idea where they are.
And you know, Ed Smart is right. There is no known psychiatric cure for them, no known way that we can handle them, other than to make sure that they`re reporting all the time, and that they know we`re watching them. And this bill gives us that type -- those type of tools. And you know, I`m very happy that we`re going to get this through tomorrow.
GRACE: Very quickly, everyone, with us tonight, Elizabeth Smart and her father, along with Senator Orrin Hatch. We`ll be joined by the rest of our panel in just a moment.
But let`s go to tonight`s "Case Alert." Family, police, volunteers, searching a Salt Lake City neighborhood for a 5-year-old missing girl, Destiny Norton. Take a look at this little angel, last seen Sunday in her own front yard, wearing a black-and-gray adult-sized T-shirt. Little Destiny is just 3-6. She`s got blond hair. She`s got the streaks in her hair, painted green, if (INAUDIBLE) believe that. There`s a $15,000 reward in this case. Anyone with any information, please contact Salt Lake City police. Their number, 801-799-INFO.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SMART: It`s real! It`s real! I can`t begin to tell you how happy I am, what an absolute miracle, an answer to prayers, this has been. God lives. He is there. He answers prayers. And the prayers of the world have brought Elizabeth home! I`m so thankful. I`m so thankful and feel so blessed to have this miracle happen to us!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The rescue and safe return of this little girl, Elizabeth Smart, is, in fact, still a miracle today. So often at night, we bring you news of one missing child after the next. Her return, her safe return, is an inspiration to so many parents and families out there tonight.
Let`s go back for just one moment to Pat Reavy with "The Deseret Morning News." He lived through the whole ordeal. For those that are unfamiliar with this story, remind us, what exactly happened in the Elizabeth Smart story, Pat.
PAT REAVY, "DESERET MORNING NEWS": Wow, trying to explain this in 5,000 words or less. Elizabeth Smart taken from a room in June of 2002, found nine months later after an intensive search. Of course, gained worldwide media attention. Eventually, she was found not too far from her home, in Sandy (ph), Utah, which is about 20 minutes down the road from Salt Lake City. She was found. She was OK. She was alive. As you saw Ed there a few minutes ago, it came as a surprise, a shock to everybody.
Later, a state grand jury indicted Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee, his wife, on charges of kidnapping her. And since then, it`s kind of been in a legal stranglehold of competency hearings.
GRACE: You were in court today, correct?
REAVY: Not in court today. Today was the day we were out searching, actually, for the other missing girl in Salt Lake City now, Destiny Norton.
GRACE: Have you been in court while Barzee was in court?
REAVY: Yes. She had a court hearing not too long ago. She was found incompetent in 2004, and then she had another review hearing, again found incompetent. And earlier this year, she was in court where the issue of forced medication came up, which is a first in Utah. Doctors at the state hospital where she -- where they`re trying to get her back to competency to stand trial, they say they`ve tried every effort except medication. She refuses to take medication. So now the state wants to go to court to try and force her to be medicated back to competency.
GRACE: We`ll all be right back. Joining us tonight, Elizabeth Smart and her father, Ed, along with Senator Orrin Hatch joining us from Washington.
Quickly, Rosie, let`s go to "Case Alert." Twenty-five thousand Americans trapped in war-torn Lebanon will no longer have to worry about the paycheck, he bill for their trip back to the U.S. The U.S. government had been planning to charge them for their return home. The Bush administration will not require Americans being rescued by helicopter and ship to repay. The move reverses a policy that came under fire from Congress.
And a programming note, a primetime live exclusive on Thursday. A judge turned her away. And then her fears came true, Her husband burned her alive. She lived, and now she wants justice. And on Friday: The verdict is in, but it`s not over yet -- the rest of the Scott Peterson story. I hope you can join us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Elizabeth Smart`s safe return to her home was a miracle. And now, four years later, she is fighting on Capitol Hill to help other victims.
Out to her dad, Ed Smart, who was there on Capitol Hill with her. Do you really think this will be successful? And what is your most vivid memory from today on Capitol Hill?
ED SMART: You know, I think seeing the non-partisan group. I mean, you`ve got Senator Reid and Senator Frist, who are both working together to make this happen. And this is not a partisan issue, and we`re just happy to see everyone really working together to try and make our society a happier -- a safer...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SMART: I could not believe it. I absolutely could not believe it. I saw her sitting there on the sofa, just sitting there with her arms folded. And I just went up, and I just grabbed her and held her, just crying and crying and crying. And I said, "Is it really you?" And she said, "Yes."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Ed Smart, after the rescue of his little girl, Elizabeth, who is with us tonight -- she is leading a crusade on Capitol Hill to get the National Sex Offender Registry passed. According to Senator Orrin Hatch, it is going to happen. He is there leading the battle, as well.
Out to the "Deseret Morning News" reporter Pat Reavy. Pat, it was such an odd set of circumstances. This was a neighborhood, a very upscale neighborhood, a beautiful neighborhood with a very low crime rate. How did it happen?
REAVY: Well, apparently, the suspect, who -- the defendant in this case is Brian David Mitchell -- broke into the Smart`s home. He had previously worked at their home doing some roofing. He only had worked there for several hours on one day. But apparently, he came back one day, allegedly, broke into the house through a window in the kitchen that was left open because there were some potatoes that were burned on the pot that evening. And to try and clear the smoke from the house, the window was left open.
He cut through the screen, went through the house, found Elizabeth sleeping in her room, and told her to get up and to follow. The only witness to the kidnapping was Elizabeth`s sister, Mary Katherine, who, after Elizabeth was taken, she was afraid to move, as you quite can understand, was terrified that something might happen to her or the rest of her family.
She eventually goes into her parents` room, said, "Elizabeth has been taken," and that starts the search. And from there, you saw the pictures on television where we had search efforts going throughout the entire state, throughout the entire nation. Several names came up early as possible suspects.
Of course, they didn`t pan out until several months later. Mary Katherine was -- once again, it was her memory, came up with this mysterious roofer only known then as Emanuel. They finally pinpointed him down to a person named Brian David Mitchell. They put out a search for him. I believe "America`s Most Wanted" put his picture out.
And it wasn`t very long after that where there started to be numerous sightings. Apparently, she was one of the most visible, you, abducted children in the state, because there were lots of photos even taken of this mysterious threesome that had been walking around the city, even down in San Diego where they had been found.
Apparently, it was after they came back from California that one day they were seen walking down State Street in Sandy, Utah, which again is about 20 minutes south of Salt Lake City. People who recognized the pictures that were on "America`s Most Wanted" called police. Police came, started questioning the threesome, and right away realized that they were talking to Elizabeth Smart.
She was at that point found. Her parents were called. They had the reunion. And then from there, they went to the legal proceedings with Mr. Mitchell and Wanda Barzee.
GRACE: I want to ask Pat Reavy about this whole entry into the home. How did you tell me the entry was made?
REAVY: From the best of my recollection -- these stories were a couple of years ago -- but he took a knife and cut the screen through the kitchen window and entered through the kitchen window.
GRACE: Here`s what Elizabeth`s mom had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I was wondering that night, June 5th, when Mary Katherine came into your room and said, "Elizabeth`s gone," and then you started looking for her and couldn`t find her, what did you, in your mind, trying to rationalize it, what did you originally think had happened to her?
LOIS SMART, MOTHER OF ELIZABETH SMART: Well, I think initially we didn`t believe she was gone. You know, she had just moved out of the bedroom and had gone down to the sofa or something, and it never crossed our mind that she would actually have been kidnapped...
GRACE: When did it finally sink in that Elizabeth is gone?
L. SMART: When I saw the screen was cut, and then I knew...
GRACE: Did it just kill you when you would hear on television everyone speculating, "The screen was cut from the inside," as if you had had gone down there and cut the screen yourself.
GRACE: Does it torture you to watch TV?
L. SMART: Of course. Of course, and that`s why we didn`t. I couldn`t watch it. There was so much misinformation going out and people speculating as what happened.
I mean, I know Elizabeth. You know, I carried her inside of me for nine months. I knew what kind of girl she was. She didn`t run away. She didn`t have a boyfriend. She wasn`t having trouble at home. You know, she...
GRACE: Or at school.
L. SMART: Or at school, that`s right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines, Rosie. Joining us, Lindsay in Ontario. Hi, Lindsay.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I have a question. I almost hate to ask it. But what are the negative aspects of this bill? I mean, I don`t understand why it hasn`t been passed already. What are the critics saying?
GRACE: You know, that`s a very good question. I was speaking to Senator Orrin Hatch about that earlier.
Ed Smart, what could possibly be the hold-up in the bill?
ED SMART: Well, you know, it`s usually not that there are that many objections. Of course, you know, sex offenders or their spouses are going to object to the bill. But usually, the issue is everyone is trying to add their idea or their tag-along on top of it that may have absolutely nothing to the bill.
GRACE: You mean, like a $200 million bridge in Alaska or...
ED SMART: Yes.
GRACE: ... that means (INAUDIBLE) they`re building outside the White House so people don`t come into Congress when they take tours, that $500 million lemon, that thing? That got tacked onto something, Ed.
ED SMART: Hey, you know, that`s been the problem, but I am happy to say that both the House and the Senate, both the Democrats and the Republicans are working together on this one. And we`re very, very excited to hear that it`s going to be passing, and we`re hopeful to see the president sign it into law next week.
GRACE: Well, let`s don`t jinx it yet. I`ve got fingers and toes crossed.
So, Elizabeth, now that you`ve spent time on Capitol Hill, do you have any plans to enter into politics?
ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I just have so many options before me, I can`t even -- no, I can`t even begin to say what I`m going to do.
GRACE: Have you liked the people you met in Washington?
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes, for the most part.
GRACE: You have?
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.
GRACE: And to Senator Orrin Hatch, what types of addendums are people trying to add onto this to get their own lick in?
HATCH: Well, you know, when Senator Biden and I started the bill in the Senate, and then Mark Foley over in the House, with the help of Chairman Sensenbrenner, we thought it would be a relatively simple thing to do. But as we got into it, Ed`s right, a lot of people had different ideas.
Some people whose states really had kind of tough laws didn`t think they needed it. And, of course, we just had to work through all of that. There`s no question that Senator Frist, Senator Reid helped greatly here.
You know, one of the things that I`d like to point out is the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. With our little gal, Destiny, right now, they`re in action. They`re doing a tremendous job.
We set that up, and it was Paula Hawkins from Florida who was then- senator from Florida who had the biggest influence on getting the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, along with Senator DeConcini of Arizona.
GRACE: You know, that`s a really good point, Senator. Let`s talk about Destiny for one quick moment, everyone.
Destiny Norton is a 5-year-old little girl missing out of the Salt Lake area. She was last seen in the yard of her own home. She`s precious.
I want to go to Ed Smart. You`re helping in the search for Destiny, correct?
ED SMART: Well, I`ve tried to talk a little bit about the Amber Alert and work with them. We`re just hoping that she is found and she is found quickly, and the importance to us is that everyone`s eyes out there is how she`s going to be found.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SMART: You know, we do not want to have any more exposure for Elizabeth than she has to go through, because we feel like she`s gone through a lot. But certainly we want a trial to go forward; we do want to see justice. We would never want to see another family go through what we`ve been through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was the voice of Ed Smart, the father of Elizabeth Smart. They are joining us tonight from Washington, D.C., where they have led their fight on Capitol Hill. Joining them, Senator Orrin Hatch.
Out to Carol Cisco. She is a spokesperson for the Utah Department of Human Services. We learn now that one of the two people accused in the abduction, the kidnap of little Elizabeth is refusing to take medication, medication that would stabilize her in order for her, Wanda Barzee, to stand trial in this heinous offense.
Out to Carol Cisco. Is it true that Barzee is refusing to take medication?
CAROL CISCO, UTAH DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES: She`s refused to take it all along, but there has recently been a court order requiring her to take it.
GRACE: Is she under therapy?
CISCO: She`s been in individual and group therapy, but she hasn`t responded very well.
GRACE: What do you mean?
CISCO: There just hasn`t been much change in her behavior.
GRACE: What is her behavior, Carol?
CISCO: You know, I can`t go into details about patient behavior.
GRACE: But she`s not responding to therapy the way they wished?
CISCO: She really isn`t. And right now, we`re just waiting to get the final court order, and then we can begin treatment with her.
GRACE: Now, how do you do that? How do you force medication on a patient that doesn`t want to take it?
CISCO: We rarely have to force the medication, even with people that initially say they won`t take it. Normally, when our doctors sit down, and talk to them, and explain why they need to, they come around.
We will sit down with her, talk to her about the options. How does she want the medication administered? Most patients will take pills rather than injections.
GRACE: Correct. Carol...
CISCO: And so we`re just hoping that she will respond well, as soon as we have the final court order in place. And, you know, our job...
GRACE: Carol Cisco is with us from the Utah Department of Human Services. And we`re talking about Wanda Barzee, who has been accused, along with a co-defendant, Brian David Mitchell -- who called himself Emanuel, wrote a 300-page manifesto his religious beliefs. They look forward to standing trial in the abduction of little Elizabeth Smart.
What type of medication is it that she`s refusing to take, Carol?
CISCO: Well, once we start, we would start with one of the new anti- psychotics that have very few side effects. And if that didn`t work, then we would go to some of the more traditional anti-psychotic medications.
GRACE: How long has she been in the hospital?
CISCO: Since March of 2004.
GRACE: To Pat Reavy, I`ve seen photos of Wanda Barzee in court, and she looks perfectly coherent.
REAVY: Well, she is not, I guess -- as opposed to her husband, Brian David Mitchell, who had several outbursts in court which became infamous for each court hearing, where he would sing, chant, yell, and quickly be escorted from the courtroom -- she generally sat in court, and paid attention, and listened, and even was seen joking and smiling at times.
I think the problem is that, according to the prosecution, she does not believe she is mentally ill, even though some of her beliefs in court have been told that she believes she is the mother of Zion, she has been visited by Johann Sebastian Bach, she`s dated him, and other beliefs like that.
GRACE: I want to go back to Elizabeth`s dad, Ed Smart, who is with us along with his daughter tonight, Elizabeth. Speaking of Destiny Norton, a little 5-year-old girl who is now missing out of Salt Lake, Ed, isn`t it correct that she was last seen there at her own home, much like Elizabeth?
ED SMART: My understanding is that she walked out of her house and, you know, her parents went out after her, I think, five minutes, and she was gone.
GRACE: Gone in a flash. Here`s a shot of Destiny, just 5 years old, 3`6", 45 to 50 pounds, blondish-brown hair, brown eyes. And the little thing has gotten some green streaks in her hair, and that`s something you certainly can`t miss.
Back to Elizabeth Smart, who is leading her own battle there at Capitol Hill. Elizabeth, if you could speak out to little Destiny tonight, what would you -- what advice would you give her?
ELIZABETH SMART: I would tell her to hold on and to not give up. And even though, you know, she is very young, but she can do it and that, I mean, you know, just to remember your family and the people who love you and, you know, just don`t give up.
GRACE: Elizabeth, your faith in God is very, very important to you; is that where you get your strength?
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes. Yes, definitely. It`s helped me and my parents. I mean, my mom has been wonderful. I mean, she`s always been behind me and backed me up. And my dad, well, I don`t need to say much. It`s pretty great.
GRACE: Do you think your parents are your best friends?
ELIZABETH SMART: Definitely.
GRACE: And you`re very close to your siblings. I know I`ve seen a ton of pictures of you guys.
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes, we are. We are close.
GRACE: Elizabeth, do you still play the harp?
ELIZABETH SMART: I do.
GRACE: If you had to pick a favorite, which is hard to do -- I know you`ve played a million things -- what would be your favorite song?
ELIZABETH SMART: I`m not quite sure.
GRACE: What does she play, Ed? What does she play the most?
ED SMART: Well, she has this one piece that`s a Spanish piece that is just -- it pulls in all of these different instruments, and it`s just beautiful. And what is that one called?
ELIZABETH SMART: "The Baroque Flamingo."
ED SMART: "The Baroque Flamingo." And she played that here in Washington at the Hope Awards. And it`s one of my all-time favorites, but she also has a piece that is called, what, "My Little Bambino," which is one of my favorites. Both Elizabeth and Mary Katherine play it together, and it talks about their dad.
GRACE: We`re showing -- I don`t know if you can see it, Elizabeth, but we`re showing a shot of you playing the harp right now.
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.
GRACE: Is that it, Ed?
ED SMART: No, no.
GRACE: What is that?
ELIZABETH SMART: It`s called "The Quaka." (ph)
GRACE: How long have you studied?
ELIZABETH SMART: Thirteen years about.
GRACE: Elizabeth, you have to keep playing. My mom is a pianist, and a professional pianist and was a cellist, and I took piano for seven years and then quit. I couldn`t play "Yankee Doodle Dandy" right now. If you quit, you totally lose it. But you want to study music, right?
ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.
GRACE: And then, do you think you might ever record?
ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I just don`t really know. I mean, there are so many options...
GRACE: I think you should.
ELIZABETH SMART: ... but I don`t know. I`ll see if the door opens or if I`ll -- who knows? I can`t say for sure.
GRACE: Let`s go to Cindy in Florida. Hi, Cindy.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. God bless you, Elizabeth and your family. Thank God you got through this OK. And thank you, Nancy, for all the work you do.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: As a mom, I`d just like to know on a local level how we could identify these terrible people and keep them away from our children. How can we know who these people are when they`re in our neighborhoods and our backyards?
GRACE: Cindy, there actually is a way to do it. You can log on to the Internet and put in your zip code. I`ll give you the details when we get back from this break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Very quickly, out to the attorney for Wanda Barzee, who is facing trial for the kidnap of Elizabeth Smart, David Finlayson, why won`t she take her medicine?
DAVID FINLAYSON, ATTORNEY FOR WANDA BARZEE: Well, I can`t comment on why she won`t take her medicine, Nancy, but she has a constitutional right to refuse medication. And I think, you know, first of all, we`ve got to make sure that we`re clear with the question here and that is whether or not medication is going to help render her competent. And that`s...
GRACE: OK, so you`re not going to tell us why she won`t take it. I understand. She didn`t want to. The Supreme Court is disagreeing tonight.
To Lisa Weinstock, psychiatrist, Lisa, why is it, even after a period of time, it`s so difficult sometimes for crime victims to recount what happened to them?
LISA WEINSTOCK, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you know, when somebody goes through a trauma or a really difficult situation, sometimes talking about it brings back a lot of those feelings and a lot of those, you know, terrible memories. And for many people, it becomes very hard to talk about it.
And so, it`s very difficult. Some people find solace in talking right away about what happened; other people need to take some time to really feel more comfortable about remembering and going back to that place.
GRACE: To Elizabeth, joining us from Capitol Hill along with her father, Elizabeth, if you could speak out to crime victims -- you`re actually an inspiration to many of them tonight -- what would you say?
ELIZABETH SMART: To not look back. I mean, things will happen to you, yes, but you have to move on. You can`t live in the past, because if you do life will pass you by and you will miss so much that it`s just not even worth thinking about. I mean, you should go, and be happy, and live your life, and not dwell on it.
GRACE: And, Elizabeth, our continued prayers and happy wishes to you, and your father, and your mom. God bless you guys. Thank you for being with us.
ELIZABETH SMART: Thank you.
ED SMART: Thank you.
GRACE: Everybody, let`s pause tonight and remember Marine Corporal Eric R. Leuken, 23, killed, Iraq. From Dubois, Indiana, joined the Marines 2003, served Afghanistan before Iraq. Avid basketball player, leaves behind parents and a fiancee. He sent e-mails from Iraq every day, set home for this fall. Eric Leuken, American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests. Thank you, Elizabeth. And thank you to you for inviting all of us into your homes. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. See you here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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