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The Situation Room
Open Warfare Between Israel and Lebanon; Paying to Get Out of Lebanon; Interview With Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak; Nasrallah Sfeir Interview; Remembering 1983 in Beirut; Growing Concern Middle East Fighting Will Spread and Become Wider, Ground-Based War
Aired July 18, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, leaving Lebanon. Many Americans caught in the Middle East crossfire hoping to save themselves. The U.S. government says it will get them out, but the evacuation will not necessarily be free of charge.
So how might both sides try to diffuse the tensions? I'll ask the former Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak, and the patriarch of the Maronite Church in Lebanon who represents most of Lebanon's Christians.
And returning to the scene of a brutal crime. Right now U.S. Marines are helping Americans get out of Lebanon. But the last time they were there, more than 20 years ago, many Marines died at the hands of suicide bombers tied to Hezbollah.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
With bombs and bloodshed in Beirut and beyond, many Americans are leaving Lebanon. Yet, their attempts to get out of harm's way apparently will not come cheap. They'll have to pay for their escape.
Because of a law passed by Congress, signed into law by the president in 2003, the U.S. State Department must charge American citizens in Lebanon for the cost of transportation. The Americans will be evacuated now, but they will be billed later.
Meanwhile, Hezbollah continues to rain rockets on northern Israel, hitting Haifa and northward toward the towns of Aco (ph) and Nahariya. And Israel continuing its air and artillery pounding of targets in Lebanon.
Moments ago, President Bush spoke out about the situation, focusing in on what he suspects is Syria's role.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Syria is trying to get back into Lebanon, it looks like to me. We passed the United Nation's resolution, 1559, and finally this young democracy, or this democracy became a whole by getting Syria out.
And there are suspicions that the instability created by the Hezbollahian (ph) attacks will cause some in Lebanon to invite Syria back in. And that would be -- that's -- it's against the United Nation's policy and it's against the U.S. policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: CNN is continuing to monitor every angle of this every- evolving story. Our reporters are watching developments throughout the Middle East and here in the United States.
CNN's Nic Robertson is standing by in Lebanon.
Jamie McIntyre is at the Pentagon.
Christiane Amanpour is joining us from northern Israel.
But let's begin with Nic Robertson. He's joining us live in Beirut -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, 120 Americans were able to get on four CH-53C Stallion helicopters, Marine helicopters that flew into the embassy here today just north of Beirut. They picked up the cargo of people, some children, some elderly, some with medical needs needing to get urgently (INAUDIBLE), flew them on about a 50-minute ride to Cyprus, where they put the first load down.
The two helicopters came back, picked (INAUDIBLE) ships arriving (INAUDIBLE).
BLITZER: We're clearly having some technical problem with Nic in Beirut. That satellite keeps going up and keeping going down. Remember this is a war zone. Be patient with us. We're going to go back to Nic momentarily, as soon as we get that fixed up.
Israel is fighting with its advanced military technology. Hezbollah guerillas are still relentless, though, managing to batter serious parts of northern Israel.
Our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, is joining us from northern Israel right now -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. We are about as far north as you can get, just a short distance, really a stone's throw from the border. And we've been listening tonight over the last several hours to a relentless barrage of outgoing Israeli artillery fire. And we have also heard this being -- going on all day.
We were with the artillery unit earlier today, and it is relentless. Their aim is to push back Hezbollah and not to allow it to return close to the border, to sit onto the border and threaten Israel, not just here in the north, but also as far south and elsewhere with their rockets and missiles.
Today there were more rockets and missiles launched by the Hezbollah over in southern Lebanon. They did reach an area near Haifa. There, we are told, are no casualties there. But here in the north, Nahariya, there was also a rocket attack, and that caused one death when it hit a house.
So this is continuing.
There are conflicting reports from the IDF, the Israeli army -- the Israeli defense forces, as to how much of the Hezbollah military capability has been neutralized. We talked to the commander of all the northern forces who said they're here and in it for the long haul, that it's all about never again allowing Hezbollah retain this military capability so close to the Israeli border.
And at the same time, there are U.N. forces -- or rather U.N. diplomats in Israel who are trying to hammer out some kind of solution for the way ahead. Obviously, centering very heavily on the existing resolution, 1559, which calls for all militias to be disbanded in Lebanon and for the government of Lebanon to exert its sovereignty and its army throughout its territory -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Are they confident, the Israelis, that they can get their mission accomplished in the next week or two?
AMANPOUR: Well, you know, every time you ask any military, are you confident and do you predict success, they always say failure is not an option. The Americans said it in Iraq; the Israelis are saying it here. That is the mantra.
They believe that they have to, they have to win. That if they don't, it will have a massive impact on their deterrent capability. And not only that, their whole relationship with all those around this region, which has an interest in seeing instability here. For instance, Hezbollah; for instance, Hamas; for instance, the countries that have proclaimed, for instance, Syria and Iran and all of the others.
They're very concerned to make this point once and for all for security and deterrent reasons.
BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour in northern Israel.
We're going to check back with you clearly throughout the night.
Efforts to evacuate U.S. citizens from Lebanon are stepping up and about to go into full-scale mode, with the U.S. military clearly leading the way. But news that evacuees will actually be charged for their transport is outraging some people.
CNN's Mary Snow is going to have more on that in a moment.
But let's go to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, first with the latest on the U.S.-led evacuation -- Jamie. JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we've been talking about this evacuation for days, but today was the day you could really feel the pace quickening.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): A week into the crisis, only a few hundred Americans have gotten out of Lebanon. At the U.S. Embassy Tuesday, about 60 more of the neediest cases, as judged by the State Department, boarded Marine Corps CH-53s for a third day of helicopter evacuations. But in addition to chartered cruise ships and ferries, the U.S. has now ordered a fleet of nine Navy ships, including the helicopter carrier USS Iwo Jima, to Lebanon. And not just as backup, but as primary transportation to kick the evacuation effort into high gear.
VICE ADM. PATRICK WALSH, U.S. 5TH FLEET COMMANDER: We are going to use U.S. Navy vessels to transport American citizens out of Beirut in to Cyprus. We will do that in conjunction with the ferries that are moving people back and forth.
MCINTYRE: The chartered cruise ship Orient Queen is now docked at the port of Beirut and is expected to leave Wednesday with between 800 and 1,000 Americans, according to U.S. commanders.
Next in will be the U.S. amphibious assault ship Nashville, which can carry another 800 evacuees. It's a warship, and Lebanon is a war zone, but the U.S. isn't expecting any trouble.
WALSH: This is an environment we would consider permissive; however, we're very much aware of the movement of weapons into the area and how the situation can change rapidly.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. is also chartering up to four more commercial vessels, including one already under contract, the ferry Rahman, which can carry 1,400 passengers and could be en route in another day or so.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The U.S. commanders say they couldn't get U.S. warships there any faster simply because of what they call a time- distance problem. In other words, they can only sail so far so fast. The USS Iwo Jima, for instance, had to collect Marines that were on an exercise in Jordan, and other ships just simply weren't nearby. But, Wolf, they're on their way now into what they call best speed.
BLITZER: Jamie, thanks very much.
Let's go to New York. CNN's Mary Snow is following this other part of the story, the growing criticism that these evacuees eventually are going to have to pay to get out of Lebanon -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the anger over the U.S. evacuation is building to the point that some on Capitol Hill are now bringing up memories of Hurricane Katrina.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice over): From her New Jersey home, a distraught Dalal Haidar pleads for help to get her 11-year-old son and 7-year-old daughter, both American citizens, out of the small Lebanese village where they had gone to visit family for the summer.
DALAL HAIDAR, HAS CHILDREN IN LEBANON: We're desperately trying to reach anyone and everyone to help us.
SNOW: Haidar's furious with the U.S. government. She is among critics saying the United States is moving too slowly in evacuating their citizens and questioning why other countries got their people out sooner.
The State Department says, unlike other countries, it's chosen to not use roadways but rather opt for sealifts, because they're safer. But it's the price of those sealifts that's causing an uproar. The State Department is charging people for the cost of their transportation, saying it's the law.
MAURA HARTY, ASST. SECRETARY OF STATE: As part of the process, yes, we will ask for a promissory note. But if there's one thing I want to leave you with today, is that no one, no American citizen will not be boarded because they left their checkbook or their credit card home.
SNOW: Those familiar with government evacuations say they doubt anyone will ever be billed.
Still, the top Democrat in the House of Representatives blasted the move, saying the American government needs to send their people a better message.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: ... that they know that this is not just another manifestation of the Katrina mentality that says, we're the government, we're suppose to be there for you in these extraordinary circumstances, but we're going to find an exception so that you have to pay.
SNOW: Experts say, unlike one of the more recent evacuations in Liberia a decade ago, this involves thousands, not hundreds, of potential evacuees.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now, the U.S. says Americans are being charged commercial rates to fly or board ships, but France, Britain, Ireland and Italy have evacuated hundreds of their citizens for free -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Mary. Thank you very much.
Mary Snow in New York.
The first leg of the trip for many is a commercial charter vessel from Lebanon to Cyprus.
Standing by with some details on what's going on, our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, this is the ship we're talking about, the Orient Queen, which is a luxury cruise liner operating out of Lebanon. Normally a trip on this cruise ship will run you some $1,000 to $7,000. It's a seven-day trip. It's a luxury liner that we're talking about here.
They have got a full extensive Web site with all sorts of virtual tours and information. It normally comfortably holds about 750 people.
Now, again, we say that they're going to be charged commercial rates. There's no definition of what those numbers are just yet.
But one of the things we also wanted to take a look at, its normal route is actually a seven-day cruise that takes you through Turkey and the Greek aisles. All this is going to do tomorrow is take the five to six-hour trip from Beirut to Cyprus.
Now, we checked online for airfare just to see what that would be if you wanted to get off Cyprus and fly, let's say, from New York City. We found everything from a flight from about $800 to one that ran about $2,500, Wolf.
So it's not cheap if you want to get beyond Cyprus back to the United States.
BLITZER: Lots of information on the Web right now. Jacki, thank you very much.
Jacki Schechner reporting.
Still ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, increasingly desperate efforts to find a diplomatic solution to the crisis in the Middle East. We're going to show you who the key players are and what they're doing right now.
Also, U.S. Marines back in Beirut a generation after a deadly attack that killed 241 U.S. service members. Most of them Marines. We're going to show you how it may have laid the ground work for modern terrorists.
Plus, he's one of the most influential religious figures in Lebanon, the spiritual leader of most of that nation's Christians. He's now here in Washington meeting with top U.S. officials. The Maronite Christian patriarch, he's standing by to join us right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Much more coming up on our top story, the crisis in the Middle East.
Let's check in with Jack Cafferty, though, first -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: No clear end in sight, Wolf, for the violence in the Middle East, and it's hard at this point to imagine there will be any real winners when the smoke finally does clear.
However, "New York Times" columnist Nicholas Kristof writes that the winners are likely to be the hard-liners throughout the Islamic world. He says Israel's attacks on Lebanon may end up making things worse for the Israelis.
He writes this, "Israel might benefit from firmer states in Lebanon and Gaza that actually control their territories. Instead, the latest Israeli offensives foster anarchy to both the north and the south, potentially nurturing militant groups that are not subject to classical deterrence."
So here's the question: Who are the winners and who are the losers in the Middle East conflict that's ongoing?
E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com, or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, Jack.
We're following all the latest developments in the Middle East crisis. Among them, President Bush now accusing Syria of "trying to get back into Lebanon through its support of Hezbollah." Mr. Bush is also calling on Israel to be mindful of Lebanon's government.
The State Department and the Pentagon say they expect to evacuate some 2,400 Americans from Lebanon by Thursday. Under U.S. law, evacuees will be charged for their transit.
Meanwhile, Lebanon now reports 183 people dead, 456 wounded, while Israel reports 25 dead and more than 300 wounded.
Let's check in with CNN's Betty Nguyen. She's joining us from the CNN Center with a closer look at some other stories making news -- Betty.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. I've got a couple stories to tell you about.
Number one, tropical depression number two has now formed into a tropical storm with the name of Beryl. Tropical Storm Beryl.
And we understand that North Carolina has been issued a tropical storm watch. So far, at last check, this storm is moving north at six miles per hour, with winds up to 40 miles per hour.
So we'll be staying on top of that. But again, tropical depression number two is now Tropical Storm Beryl.
Now, another story that we are following, that cruise ship that we told you about just a few moments earlier, well, that ship, a Princess cruise ship, has had a problem with its rudder. It turned slightly during its trip back to New York.
It originated in New York. It was on a nine-day western Caribbean cruise, and in was in Port Canaveral, Florida, just about 90 miles off of that port when it had some problems with its rudder and caused the ship to turn slightly.
Now, that turn caused people on the ship to experience some injuries. The details on those injuries, well, we don't know that just yet. We don't know if they were major injuries or these were just some minor injuries.
But I can tell you we're getting word from the company that it says the ship is safe, that it is seaworthy, and they are currently investigating the cause of this problem. But they do acknowledge and they understand that some passengers were injured when the ship sharply turned, and they're in the process of determining those injuries and the extent of those injuries.
And once it returns to Port Canaveral, Florida, obviously medical crews will be there waiting for those injured passengers to get off that ship and receive the attention that they need.
So that's the latest on both of these developing stories. We'll stay on top of it for you, Wolf.
Back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Betty, for that.
The crisis in the Middle East is sparking a flurry of desperate diplomacy.
Let's bring in our senior national correspondent, John Roberts. He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM with the latest -- John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SR. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Wolf.
It doesn't look like anything substantial is going to happen on the diplomatic front this week. The United States is not about to ask the Israelis to stop, and Condoleezza Rice has no firm plans yet to travel to the region.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS (voice over): At the White House this afternoon, President Bush outlined a very simple diplomatic goal.
BUSH: I want the world to address the root causes of the problem, and the root cause of the problem is Hezbollah.
ROBERTS: But according to the secretary of state, the diplomatic track is not yet ready to be paved with a personal visit.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: When it is appropriate and when it is necessary and will be helpful to the situation, I am more than pleased to go to the region.
ROBERTS: So what's the holdup? Shouldn't Rice rush to the Middle East to put out the fire before it spreads? Well, according to Israel, no. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly right now it's not the time.
ROBERTS: Not the time because Israel first wants to make sure things in Lebanon will change, and Hezbollah is just determined as to see they don't.
MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INST.: I think the problem right now is that, frankly, both sides to this conflict want it to keep going.
ROBERTS: In the near term, Rice has limited options. She can't talk to Hezbollah or Syria. Lebanon's government doesn't have the power to make a deal. And she's not about to go to Israel if she can't make an impact.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, you don't go there with an empty satchel. You go there if you have business that you think you can go ahead and transact.
ROBERTS: Rice's task will be to build international pressure for a deal. The U.N. and British Prime Minister Tony Blair are pushing hard the idea of a multinational stabilization force for Lebanon.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: ... that can stop the bombardment coming over into Israel, and, therefore, gives Israel the reason to stop its attacks on Hezbollah.
ROBERTS: But hold on, says the White House. A U.N. force should only go in once hostilities have ended. And while they won't say so publicly, administration officials are content to give Israel more time to weaken Hezbollah.
But with civilian casualties growing on the Lebanese side, there's a risk Israel could quickly squander what goodwill it has with moderate Arab states.
O'HANLON: I think there's a balancing act here. And it's not likely that the White House will stay quiet and comfort with these Israeli tactics too much longer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: President Bush said today that to solve this crisis, the world has to deal not only with Hezbollah, but Syria and Iran as well. And he said Syria might be using this as a way to get back into Lebanon by weakening the government to the point that it invites Syria back in -- Wolf.
BLITZER: There's no sign that you could pick up -- at least I haven't been able to pick up any sign -- that the Bush administration is weakening in its support of what the Israelis are doing?
ROBERTS: Not at this point. They're -- as I said, they're content to sort of stand on the sidelines for now, allow Israel to keep on pounding those Hezbollah positions, and then at some point in the next week or so some intense diplomacy may begin to catch fire. But one veteran of Middle East negotiations I talked to today said he doesn't expect that the violence will end until three weeks after those intense negotiations begin. So that would give it almost another month to run.
BLITZER: We'll see what happens. John, thanks very much for that.
We're going to come back to our top story, but let's go to Betty Nguyen once again. She's got some new developments on that cruise ship off the coast of Florida.
What are you picking up, Betty?
NGUYEN: Well, we're also getting some new pictures in. Take a look at this.
Coming into CNN right now, pictures of this Crown Princess cruise ship, a cruise ship that was having some problems with its rudder which caused the ship to tilt to its side. And so far, we understand at least 30 people sustained injuries from this.
This ship was really just outside Port Canaveral, Florida, about 90 miles outside of the port, headed to New York, when this rudder problem occurred and caused this ship to tilt.
Well, there's the ship right there. It looks like it is seaworthy, as the company said it is. It is heading back into port.
And maybe you'll see in a minute -- we were looking just a little bit earlier at that port, and there are emergency crews standing by waiting for this ship to come in. Because, as mentioned, we know that at least 30 injuries have been reported because of this problem with the cruise ship.
This ship originated in New York, Wolf, and it was on a nine-day western Caribbean cruise when it had just left about 3:30 this afternoon the port -- Port Canaveral, Florida. It was about 90 miles outside of that port, headed to New York, when this problem occurred. A problem with its rudder which caused the ship to tilt.
And in that tilting, people were injured. They were swayed on the ship. They may have hit their heads.
We don't know exactly the extent of those injuries. But we know 30 people have been injured because of this. And emergency crews are standing by.
And as you see right there in these live pictures, that cruise ship is headed to port, and those people with injuries will get the medical attention that they need -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much, Betty.
That rolling probably made a few of those passengers a little nauseous as well. We'll continue to watch this story. But when we come back, we'll get back to our top story. We'll talk about the latest developments in the Middle East crisis and the efforts to try to resolve the crisis with the former Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak.
He'll join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
We're following all of the latest developments in the Middle East crisis. Among them, President Bush now accusing Syria of "trying to get back into Lebanon through its support of Hezbollah." The president also calling on Israel to be mindful of Lebanon's government.
The State Department and the Pentagon say they expect to evacuate some 2,400 Americans from Lebanon by Thursday. Under U.S. law, evacuees will be charged for their transit.
Meanwhile, Lebanon now reports at least 183 people dead, 456 wounded, while Israel reports 25 dead and more than 300 people wounded.
How might Israel define success in this fight? When it comes -- and when might it agree to end its campaign?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And joining us now is the former prime minister of Israel, Ehud Barak.
General Barak, thanks very much for coming in.
What is your best military assessment right now? How much longer will it take for Israel to accomplish its mission?
EHUD BARAK, FMR. ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I believe probably a week or two.
BLITZER: One week or two weeks. And what exactly will that mission be? What are you trying to achieve?
BARAK: I would set four conditions. We need the release of the abducted soldier, destruction of the Hezbollah infrastructure, the deployment of the Lebanese armed forces to the border following U.N. Security Council Resolution 1559, and the collection of rockets and its demolition.
If this is not going to go and executed by someone else, preferably the Lebanese government, we will have to impose it through coercive aggressive operations.
BLITZER: But does that mean reintroducing Israeli ground forces into southern Lebanon? BARAK: I don't believe that it's needed. We do not intend to be dragged once again into the Lebanese swamp. In a way, the very fact that they ordered the full pullout from this area to the last square inch, occupied for us the moral high ground in the world, and enable us to respond now much more forcefully.
But having said that, special operation forces and units, and even short-time excursions into Lebanon in order to destroy the fortification just along the border, this is something that I assume will happen.
BLITZER: Do you think that it's realistic that Israel will regain those two Israeli soldiers who were captured and taken into Lebanon?
BARAK: That's our expectation, and in a way it's congruent with the joint statement of the G-8. They made it the prerequisite for any opening of discussion about a cease-fire. And I think that that's what we should demand.
BLITZER: The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, said the other day this -- he said, "It is our impression that aside from seeking to return the abducted soldiers, Israel is pursuing wider goals."
Many of the analysts have suggested that Israel has had this plan in the works for some time to try to destroy the rockets, the military infrastructure of Hezbollah. The capture of these Israeli soldiers was simply the trigger that unleashed this Israeli operation.
Is that a fair assessment?
BARAK: Not exactly. Even when I ordered the pullout from Lebanon six years ago, they already had then 7,000 rockets and more than 100 heavy rockets that could reach well into the middle of the way from Haifa to Tel Aviv.
And we have these plans for years in our shelves, how to destroy it when the time will impose it upon us. But there was no grand plan behind it. It was just the accumulation, the abduction in the south, the barrage of rockets of the southern cities of (INAUDIBLE). The accumulation of these on two fronts.
You know, no sovereign would ever accepted it, not even Vladimir Putin. I have a better accommodation. And, in fact, I talked about it with Putin about a month ago, in St. Petersburg.
I think the time had come, and the G8 government could be a very good opportunity for these to join hands, world leadership, backed by the United Nations Security Council 425 from six years ago and 1559 from just 14 months ago and just demand the governments of Lebanon, and (INAUDIBLE) Damascus, tell them unequivocally that the time has come for action, to dismantle Hezbollah, to demolish all these rockets, and to deploy the armed forces of Lebanon to the border. It's that simple.
Now, let me tell you, Wolf. If the world leadership, the G8, cannot convince (INAUDIBLE) Siniora to do this, no way they will be able to tackle with Kim Jong-il in North Korea or with the ayatollah in Tehran in regard to the nuclear military program. It's a kind of easy test, simple one, clear win-win for all, I believe, including for the Lebanese and Syrian government.
BLITZER: Ehud Barak, the former prime minister of Israel. Thanks so much for spending a few moments with us.
BARAK: Thank you.
BLITZER: Lebanon has a sizeable Christian population. According to the CIA World Factbook, they account for approximately 39 percent of all Lebanese, and the majority of the Christians in Lebanon are Maronite Christians. For more on this crisis, we're joined now by the patriarch of the Maronite Church in Lebanon, Cardinal Nasrallah Sfeir.
Thanks, your eminence, very much for coming in. You're going over to meet with top officials in the White House and the State Department. How do you resolve this crisis is in your country right now?
CARDINAL NASRALLAH SFEIR, LEBANESE MARONITE PATRIARCH: Our opinion is that is difficult to resolve. But Israel is in difficulty since about more than half a century. And is opposed to Palestinians, and the Palestinians are opposed to Israel. The best solution will be that every people must have its own country, and so the two peoples can live with each other peacefully, and with solidarity, and each one will continue to be peaceful of the other.
BLITZER: So you support what's called a two state solution, Israel living alongside Palestine.
SFEIR: Exactly.
BLITZER: That would ease the problem this problem in Lebanon. But the immediate crisis right now is the killing and the capturing of those Israeli soldiers which provoked Israelis to unleash its attacks against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon. Is it possible -- and you know the situation very well -- that Hezbollah will give back these two soldiers to Israel?
SFEIR: Exactly. Because Hezbollah has said that it has captured two soldiers Israeli so that Israel will be able to negotiate about 10,000 prisoners in their jails. And Israel is not so (ph) because Lebanon has been destroyed. As you know, in Beirut, the bridges, roads, and the electricity, all of this has been destroyed.
BLITZER: So did Hezbollah make a major mistake in going over the boarder to capture those Israelis?
SFEIR: Yes. But nobody was waiting that such reaction will be after that because the reaction is disproportionate with the action.
BLITZER: There has been some suggestion that you could be a conduit, that you could help ease this crisis. I know you're going to meet with the secretary of state. Are you involved? Can you be involved diplomatically in some way as a bridge?
SFEIR: I will make my possibility to solve the problem, but it's not up to me. It is up to the politicians to resolve this. I have my position, but I'm a spiritual man.
BLITZER: When did you leave Lebanon?
SFEIR: In about the 20 kilometers from Beirut.
BLITZER: No, you live in Lebanon, I know. But you left a few days ago, right?
SFEIR: Yes. About 20 days.
BLITZER: You had been hoping to go back soon, right?
SFEIR: Exactly. Exactly.
BLITZER: And so what do you do now?
SFEIR: Yes, but it is difficult because all of the manner of going back to Lebanon is cut, the blockade by air, by sea, and by land.
BLITZER: So it's going to be hard for you to get back to Beirut?
SFEIR: It is very hard...
BLITZER: Are you going to try, though?
SFEIR: ... for many peoples who are here or abroad that they can't go easily go to Lebanon. Go back.
BLITZER: You said in St. Louis, recently -- let me quote you. And I want to make sure it's an accurate quote . You said, "In reality, disarming Hezbollah is not an easy task. This is a tool manipulated by Syria and Iran." This is what the president said, that Hezbollah is being manipulated by Syria and Iran. What do you mean like that?
SFEIR: I mean that Hezbollah is an ally to Syria and to Iran. And so Hezbollah, Iran and Syria are making one. And they help each other.
BLITZER: So can the Lebanese government, Prime Minister Siniora, President Emile Lahoud, can they assert Lebanese control over all of Lebanon, the sovereignty, and disband this militia?
SFEIR: I don't think so because our government is very weak to do some things like that.
BLITZER: It's going to be a difficult process. Well, we wish you and we wish all the people of Lebanon only the best. Thank you so much, your eminence, for coming into THE SITUATION ROOM. Good luck with your meeting with the Bush administration. And coming up, a larger force of U.S. marines back in Beirut. Twenty-three years after that devastating attack on a marine barracks outside, U.S. marines are now back in Lebanon, trying to get Americans out.
And on those Americans trying to get out, for many, the situation clearly a nightmare right now, including the family of one of our own CNN reporters. We'll share that story with you. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Right now, U.S. marines are among the U.S. military personnel trying to help evacuate Americans from Lebanon. But despite this very important work, it's hard to forget the grim events that happened the last time U.S. marines were in Beirut. Our Brian Todd is standing by to explain -- Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, from most appearances, this operation looks clear-cut. But the marines know all too well any deployment to Lebanon can get complicated fast.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): Boots on the ground in Beirut, some 2,200 U.S. marines sent to evacuate Americans. A deployment that evokes memories of the last time the marines were there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it brings you back to 1983.
TODD: October 23rd, 1983. Suicide bombers linked to Hezbollah drive two trucks packed with more than 10,000 pounds of TNT into the Beirut headquarters of American and French forces -- 241 U.S. servicemen are killed, most of them marines. They'd been sent there to stabilize Lebanon in the wake of heavy fighting between the Israelis, Hezbollah, and other factions. Days after the bombing, the American president is resolute.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we were to leave Lebanon now, what message would that send to those who foment instability and terrorism?
TODD: But just months later, the marines pull out.
REAGAN: We're not bugging out. We're just going to a little more defensible position.
TODD: Analysts believe that withdrawal sent a message to terrorists groups that they still carry with them.
EDWARD LUTTWAK, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: All of September 11th, everything else, goes back to this thing. "Here we blow up a building, and we change policy." That's how they saw it.
TODD: Another tie-in. The alleged mastermind of the 1983 attacks, Imad Mugniyah, is, according to the U.S. and Israeli intelligence officials, still likely hiding out in Lebanon. Mugniyah, they say, has long-standing ties with Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. Privately, the Israelis say they're looking for him in the current operation. But even if Mugniyah's busy eluding capture, the marines have taken his deadly listen to heart. This mission, experts say, will be different.
BRIG. GEN. JAMES MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Its is to evacuate American citizens. Do that precisely, do that as quickly as you can -- albeit that's a tough task -- and then get out of there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: That means much smaller groups of marines, more widely disbursed. State Department and some Marine officials say there are no plans for the marines to go beyond pre-designated evacuation points and have American citizens come to them. But one official told me they're not ruling out sending small detachments into remote areas if Americans cannot easily can't be reached -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian. Thanks very much. Excellent report.
And as the fighting continues there's growing concern it will spread and become a wider ground-based war. CNN's Tom Foreman is here in THE SITUATION ROOM with that part of the story -- Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN ANALYST: You know, this is complex, Wolf. The idea of it becoming a true ground war is difficult. Let's zoom in here, north side of Africa, to get our bearings, once again. Israel down here, Lebanon up to the North. There's the border right there.
If this were to become a ground war, it would be focused on where Hezbollah operates, not in all of Lebanon, but just in this wedged shaped area down here. They're pretty much trapped in that area by other political forces. Israel would try to come in and set up a ring of fire around them again and squeeze in on Hezbollah.
Well, why are they doing this? It's not so much to capture Hezbollah itself, because those guys are going to do what insurgents do. They'll go undercover, they'll change clothes, they'll disappear.
It's for this, 10,000 short range rockets believed to be hidden on the southern end of Lebanon where they can fire on Israel and, up closer to Beirut, several hundred longer range rockets, mid-range rockets, those that have been reaching all the way down to Haifa, maybe can reach all the way to Tel Aviv. That's what Israel would really be going after.
But it would be tough. Look at the terrain, an important factor. Mountains all in this region. That makes it very hard for a big army to move in, in a big way. And look at the details, here. Little villages all through these mountains.
Every one of those, even where the intelligence has an idea where these are hidden, and that's what they're pounding on right now, every one of these would have to be secured and searched. And military analysts say each one could take 300 to a thousand men. That's a lot of people. This land would absorb soldiers.
Beyond that, look at the nature of these villages. Many of these are made of homes that are made of stone. You can see a little bit of it right here. Why does that matter? I guess you could have buildings that are made out of plywood, or building made out of wallboard, like normal. Those you can shoot through.
Stone buildings offer lots and lots of easy hiding places for insurgents. A hand full of snipers in an area like this could tie up hundreds of soldiers for days and weeks. And in the midst of all of this will be political pressure on Israel for crossing the border en masse, to have this giant attack. Enormous international pressure if that were to happen, and the insurgency would then bet upon that.
That's why the military analysts I'm talking to say they do not think a ground war is likely, even as Israel continues to hammer the places where they believe these rockets are, hoping that they can reduce Hezbollah from a force that can easily reach over and strike Israel into a force of a few thousand people with small arms, not nearly as dangerous to Israel.
BLITZER: Excellent report. All of our team is doing some really outstanding journalism. Thanks, very much, Tom Foreman for that.
And still to come, more on efforts to get Americans out of Lebanon. For many, the situation is a nightmare, including the family of one of our own CNN reporters. We're going to share with you that story.
And in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, how should the U.S. government respond to the current crisis? I'll ask the former secretary of state Madeleine Albright. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Lou Dobbs getting ready for his program that begins at the top of the hour. He's standing by to tell us what he's working on -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you. Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, we'll have the very latest for you on the escalating conflict between Israel and Hezbollah. The United States now says it will evacuate as many as 2,000 over our citizens from Beirut tomorrow? But why has the U.S. rescue operation taken so long to organize and to put into operation? We'll be live at the Pentagon and in Cyprus with the stories.
Also, the Israeli offensive is entering the second week. A top Israeli commander now says large numbers of Israeli ground forces could be entering Lebanon. We'll have that live report from Beirut and form Israel.
Syria tonight is refusing to end its support of Hezbollah. We'll have a special report on Syria's close ties with Hezbollah and other radical Islamist terrorist groups. And three of the country's leading authorities join us to assess the situation in the Middle East and, of course, U.S. policy. We hope you'll be with us. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou, for that. We'll be watching.
The open warfare between Israel and Hezbollah is a nightmare for countless families here in the United States, families with relatives and friends caught up in the crossfire. And that includes some of our own CNN family. CNN's Chris Lawrence is joining us from Los Angeles with that part of the story -- Chris?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, when you talk about thousands of American families who have loved ones over there, one of them is the family, the sister and nephews, of one of our own right here in the Los Angeles bureau. And she's having a very difficult time trying in to find out any information on when they might be able to get out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): CNN correspondent Thelma Gutierrez has interviewed hundreds of families in situations where they're worried about a loved one in harm's way.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But it's incredibly difficult to sit on this side and worry. And again, you know, we're not alone.
LAWRENCE: Like other American families, Thelma's sister is trapped in Lebanon. Sandra and their two boys were visiting her husband's family when the bombs started falling. Thelma finally got her sister on the phone today.
GUTIERREZ: If that's where the evacuations are going to be happening, how, exactly, are you going to get to Beirut?
SANDRA CHOKR, SISTER OF THELMA GUTIERREZ: I don't know how we're getting there. I know that the roads are all being bombed, you know, and we still wonder how the heck we're going to get out of here.
LAWRENCE: They're in a small village in Bekaa Valley, a two hour drive from Beirut.
GUTIERREZ: All right, Sandra. Well, love you.
CHOKR: Love you too, Thelma. Talk to you later, OK?
GUTIERREZ: Bye-bye.
CHOKR: Bye.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: Obviously, a very, very hard time for Thelma and her family right now. The problem seems to be that the evacuations are mostly taking place in Beirut. They're a f few hour's drive away, and they're told it's much too dangerous to get on the road and go to Beirut. So they're hearing that other people are getting out of Beirut, but they're wondering who is going to come and get them -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We just heard a little while ago that there were more Israel air strikes in the Bekaa Valley right now. Give our love to Thelma, her entire family. Thanks very much, Chris Lawrence, for that story. Multiply that story by thousands, thousands, and you understand the enormity of what's going on for so many Americans right now.
Up ahead, Jack Cafferty is wondering who are the winners and the losers in the Middle East conflict. He's standing by with "The Cafferty File."
And coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, we'll talk about the crisis with the former of secretary of state, Madeleine Albright. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. Betty Nguyen joining us once again from the CNN Center with a closer look at some other stories making news -- Betty?
NGUYEN: Hi there, Wolf. New developments today in a story that CNN first brought to you. In New Orleans, a doctor and two nurses face second degree murder charges in the deaths of several patients in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Now, they're accused of giving lethal doses of morphine to four patients at New Orleans' Memorial Medical Center back in September. Attorneys for the doctor and the nurse say their clients are innocent.
In other news, for the second day in a row, there has been a deadly attack at a marketplace in Iraq. Iraqi officials say 59 people were killed when a suicide car bomb exploded in Kufa, south of Baghdad -- 130 people were injured. Now, Kufa is considered a holy place by Shiite Muslims. An attack at a market in Mahmudiya yesterday killed at least 50 people.
More than 14,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq since January. That is according to a new United Nations report. The bimonthly document says more than 5,000 were killed in May and June alone, and it warns that the killings, kidnappings, and torture of civilians is on the rise -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Betty, thank you for that. Betty Nguyen reporting.
Up next, the growing crisis in the Middle East has Jack Cafferty wondering who are the winners and who are the losers. Jack with your e-mail, that's coming up next.
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BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends over at the Associated Press, pictures on the Middle East crisis. In northern Israel, soldiers cover their ears while firing artillery into southern Lebanon. Gaza City, armed Palestinian women protest against Israel's operations in Gaza and Lebanon. Nahariya in northern Israel. An Israeli police officers stands next to a building hit by Hezbollah rockets. One Israeli civilian was killed. And in Karachi, Pakistan, protestors burning a replica of an Israeli flag. Some of today's hot shots from the Middle East, pictures likely to be in your home town newspapers tomorrow.
Let's go to New York. Jack Cafferty has got "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Wolf, the questions this hour is, who are the winners and losers in this burgeoning Middle East conflict?
Meredith writes from North Carolina, "Have we learned nothing from World War II? Hezbollah is potentially as bad as the Nazis, and the president of Iran as bad as Hitler. Israel and the rest of the world cannot afford to let them be the winners. It's unfortunate this requires military action, but they don't understand anything else. Everything possible has to be done to ensure that they are clearly the losers."
Mike in Colorado: "The road map to chaos has been a huge success. The weapons munitions manufacturers are wringing their hands in glee. Additionally, the producers of recruitment ads for Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda, et cetera, are not exact distraught, either."
Sony in Oregon: "This war is a lose-lose situation, regardless of the tensions between Israel and Hezbollah. A full-scale war in the Middle East is an enormous price to pay for the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers."
Charles writes from Michigan, "Iran's the winner. The U.S. played into its hands by invading Iraq. The West had it perfect with these two Muslim countries staring at each other along the barrels of AK-47s. Then, Bush compounded the problem by not filling the diplomatic void after he forced Syria out of Lebanon. All this was very predictable, and the longer we stay in Iraq, the worse it will be."
And Rod writes from Councilgrove, Kansas, "Jack, I think the overall losers are the poor Americans who are stuck in Lebanon. I feel especially badly for the small children who have no idea why things are filling out of the sky at all hours of the day."
If you didn't see your e-mail here, you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile and read some more of them online. Or you could get a life -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you very much. See you back here in an hour.
I want to show our viewers a live picture from the floor of the U.S. Senate right now. That's Senator Debbie Stabenow, Democrat of Michigan. She's introducing legislation right now that would waive any fee for Americans evacuated from Lebanon. More on this story coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour as well. I want to check back one more time with Betty Nguyen at the CNN Center in Atlanta for a little bit more information on that cruise line that's been having some serious mechanical problems off the coast of Florida -- Betty?
NGUYEN: Yes, this Princess cruise ship had some problems with its rudder, which caused it to take on a heavy roll and lean to one side. And what happened, basically, it was able to get upright. It never really tilted, over to any extent.
But it did cause some people -- that rolling did cause some people onboard, some passengers, to sustain injuries. We understand at least 30 people sustained some injuries from that. Now, look at these pictures right now. It appears that this cruise ship has arrived back in Port Canaveral, Florida.
And, as you know, medical crews were standing by, waiting for these people to arrive. They are there, now, and all of them will be tended to. And we'll stay on top of this for you, Wolf, and bring you the latest just as soon as it comes in.
BLITZER: Betty, thank you very much. Betty Nguyen reporting.
We're here in THE SITUATION ROOM weekday afternoons, 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern. We're back in one hour, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. We're following the Middle East crisis. In the meantime, thanks for joining us. Let's go to Lou Dobbs in New York -- Lou.
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