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American Morning

Bulk of Refugees our of Beirut Coming to Cyprus; Israel Firing at Long-Range Missile Facilities in Lebanon

Aired July 19, 2006 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Wednesday, July 19th.
Welcome to a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING.

I'm Miles O'Brien in New York.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Soledad O'Brien at the port of Larnaca in Cyprus. This port, Miles, is where the bulk of people, the refugees out of Beirut have been coming.

Hot. It's 1:00 in the afternoon, a little bit after right now. Morning, obviously, where you are.

What we've seen today is a lot of action, actually starting overnight.

First of all, this Greek destroyer came in, 160 Greeks on board, about 100 other folks from other different countries. Four Americans on board as well.

And then a little bit later, early this morning, around 5:00 in the morning, just before sunrise, this big ship here came in with about 1,000 people on board. That's a rough estimate. Somewhere between 100 and 200 students.

And you might say, well, gee, that doesn't look like a cruise ship. And it's not. Conditions on board -- the description quite remarkable.

Got some pictures of those folks coming off just before sunrise, and you can see looking pretty dazed, looking pretty weary. Some of the people had been on that ship for hours and hours as they waited for it to load up before they were able to leave the dock in Beirut. And then the trip itself took approximately 11 hours. Many of those hours without any food and water, and the people were quite exhausted and wiped out.

We've got some, for the first time, some pictures, some videotape from on board that ship. It was taken by an American student who made her way out of Beirut. Pretty remarkable.

You can see the conditions as folks are crowded, packed quite closely on top of that -- that upper deck there. And she estimated the temperatures in the 100-degree range, which is what we're experiencing right about now as well. And she said it was just brutal for family members who tried to cover themselves with tarps or whatever and, you know, sleep on pieces of cardboard.

She also said that the ship, which is really a cargo ship for moving tractors and moving cars, not meant to hold all these people. Obviously, covered in flies. And it got to the point where children would just sleep out in the hallways, all just packed in there, covered with flies. And at some point they just gave up trying to do anything about it.

The bombardment of Lebanon continues.

We want to get to Paula Newton. She's on the Israeli side of the border and has an update on what's happening there.

Paula, good morning.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

A little excitement here this morning. They've had a couple of ammunitions fires, and now they've reloaded the guns. They're now pointing them in another direction of the border.

They have new information about guerrillas hunkered down in those areas, and again, about more storage facilities for those short-range missiles, and, you know, most importantly, those long-range missiles.

People here on the ground that they believe they have had effect, that they have intelligence tells them they have had an effect in taking out some of those long-range missile facilities. They say from here because they don't have the accuracy to keep out of the civilians' way, that they, in fact, are only trying to hit those infrastructure targets. So you're talking rocket launchers and bunkers -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Paula Newton for us.

Thanks, Paula.

Have they -- in fact, had an effect?

Karl Penhaul is on the other side of the border, the Lebanese side of the border, undisclosed location. He joins us by phone.

Karl, what exactly are you seeing from where you are?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Constantly, throughout the morning, we've heard shelling, we've heard bombs, and we've heard missiles coming from Israeli planes raining down on the border area, at least a 10-mile-wide stretch from the border up into southern Lebanon. And we checked in on the hospital about an hour ago now, and what is obvious is that large numbers of civilian casualties do seem to be streaming into those hospitals.

I saw a 29-year-old man, he came in on a stretcher. Ten minutes later, he was dead, massive bleeding from -- doctors worked to try and save him, but they just turned around after a few minutes and said, "There's too many shrapnel wounds here, impossible to save him." I also spoke to a 13-year-old girl. She had been in hospital for the last two days, and she had shrapnel wounds across her body. Speaks almost perfect English, and she had a message. She said, "Please tell the world that this is not our fault. Tell them to stop it."

S. O'BRIEN: Karl Penhaul on the Lebanese side of the border.

Karl, thanks. And obviously, be careful.

It's interesting, Miles. It's a similar thing we are hearing from many of the American students who have been evacuated. They say the same thing, that they understand that Israel is trying to get to the Hezbollah fighters, but they say the country that they love so much, Lebanon, where they've been studying for the summer, is just being absolutely destroyed in the process, and it's quite a difficult thing for them to watch -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: It's so hard, it breaks your heart for people who love that country to see that happen, especially when you consider all that had given them optimism in recent months and years.

All right. Soledad, thank you very much.

The evacuations of Americans starting to pick up steam now. Four hundred and fifty citizens out of harm's way, another thousand on the way.

Zeina Sayegh and her mother Amal (ph) were visiting relatives in Lebanon when the fighting began. Now they're waiting to be evacuated. Last we heard, they were at the port.

She joins us on the phone right now, going to fill us in on that.

With us here, her father Tony and her brother, Tony Junior.

Good to have you both here.

Let's get to Zeina first.

Zeina, where are you and how are things going?

ZEINA SAYEGH, AMERICAN EXECUTIVE: I'm sorry, I can't hear you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Can you hear me now?

Z. SAYEGH: Yes. Much better.

M. O'BRIEN: OK. Where are you right now and how are things going?

Z. SAYEGH: Well, I am actually waiting to get on the boat to come home. Actually, I have to go to Cyprus first, then home. And I'd rather not give any detail than that for security reasons, but I'm just waiting with a whole large group of people who are very anxious to get back home.

M. O'BRIEN: OK, so you are -- that's great news. So you're just waiting there, you're at a port, and you're just waiting in line now for your turn to get on a cruise liner and get to Cyprus?

Z. SAYEGH: That's right.

M. O'BRIEN: You've had a harrowing journey to get to that point. What's it been like?

Z. SAYEGH: Well, you know, it's sort of -- I almost feel unfair talking about my journey compared to what the people of Lebanon are going through right now, and most of the other people who were much more in the heart of fire and the heart of the real true bombs. I was very lucky to be able to escape up to the mountains and be in a very safe area and not hear much of what was going on.

You know, that being said, it's obviously extremely stressful and uncomfortable to be in a country that's under attack and that is involved in a war that no one knows how it will end or when it will end and how far it's going to escalate. So, it certainly has not been the most wonderful vacation I have ever taken, but I just want to be, you know, fair to everyone else who is undergoing a lot more stress and trauma than I have.

But, you know, I guess from my own personal perspective, it's just been difficult because I've been wanting to get out for so long. And, you know, just the waiting period and, you know, worrying about my mother's health, and watching her sort of emotionally uneasy about what was happening to our homeland has certainly not been -- not been easy.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, and your mother has a heart condition, and there was concern about running out of medication. Is she doing OK? Is she going to be all right?

Z. SAYEGH: Yes. Thank god, she's doing -- she's doing well. And she's very, very happy to be home. And she's an incredibly tough woman, and I'm just happy that we're going to be coming home soon.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get to the Tonys here for a second.

And you guys can say hello to each other if you want.

Say hi.

TONY SAYEGH, WIFE AND DAUGHTER IN LEBANON: Hi, Zeina.

TONY SAYEGH, JR., MOTHER IN LEBANON: Hi, mom. You sound wonderful.

She always sounds wonderful.

M. O'BRIEN: What's -- hearing her voice, it must be nice. I know you've been in constant contact. You've been text messaging and so forth. Having that connection helps a lot, but you must have been worried sick.

T. SAYEGH: Absolutely. Absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: What's it been like?

T. SAYEGH: Didn't sleep for seven days barring all the news. And American, British, Arabic, all kinds of news, trying to have a feeling of what's happening.

M. O'BRIEN: You know, much has been said about the chaotic evacuation, or what seems chaotic. It is, after all, a conflict that we're in the middle of. Are you at all critical of the U.S. government on the way this has been handled?

T. SAYEGH, JR.: It's unfair, Miles, for us to say that, only because it obviously is such a difficult and precarious situation. No one expected -- I remember the morning my father woke me with the news. It sounded like a very typical situation that we've been very used to in the Middle East, the powder keg explodes and there's a bit of a conflict. But this has escalated so fast to a point where we're just happy they're coming home.

There'll probably be time to evaluate the government's response in the future, but just hearing their voice and knowing they're at the port makes all the difference in the world to us. And it's been a very surreal experience.

M. O'BRIEN: So all's well that ends well in some sense?

T. SAYEGH: That is correct. Except, I still have family there. I have three nieces and their mother, my sister-in-law.

M. O'BRIEN: Are they safe?

T. SAYEGH: I believe they are, but they're trying to leave. And as of today, they did not hear from the embassy. And although we sent reminders, hopefully they will be contacted and brought out to safety soon, like tomorrow, for instance, because they're young and their father is here, and I hope that they'll be evacuated quickly.

M. O'BRIEN: Zeina, a final thought from you.

Lebanon was on the State Department list of places where U.S. citizens are advised not to travel. You knew that going in, you knew it was a kind of dangerous place. This caught everyone by surprise.

Having said all of that, are you at all critical of the way this whole evacuation played out?

Z. SAYEGH: You know, obviously, it's been an extremely frustrating experience. And there were certain things I wish, you know, were done differently. But I don't know that -- I don't know that it's my place to criticize, because this is certainly a very large task at hand for the State Department, the government and the entire international community, and I assume that an evacuation this large has never been done before. So I'm trying to remain as positive and respectful as I can of the government and the State Department and the way that they have handled this and their player planning abilities. I mean, certainly, it's been incredibly, incredibly frustrating for me, and I've been wanting to get out sooner, but, I just -- you know, at the core, I had a confidence that, you know, they would coming through for us, and they have, as I'm sure they will for the many other Americans that are out here.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

Z. SAYEGH: And I just hope that, you know, they coming through quickly.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. We wish you well. Safe journey home. Glad you're at the port. Keep us posted, and when you get back here, let's come on by and tell us the full story.

Zeina Sayegh, who is there with her mother, Amal (ph), and Tony Senior and Junior Sayegh, right here in New York.

Thanks very much to the entire family for being here this morning.

T. SAYEGH: Thank you.

T. SAYEGH, JR.: Thank you very much.

T. SAYEGH: Thank you very much.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's get a check -- let's get a check of the forecast now.

Chad Myers at the CNN Center.

Chad, good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Obviously, Miles, we're looking at Beryl.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Chad Myers.

Still to come on the program, the latest on the situation in the Middle East. What does Hezbollah want in this crisis? We'll talk to our Arab affairs expert, Octavia Nasr.

And then a new offensive in Gaza this morning. Israeli tanks rolling in. We are live with the latest on that.

And later, that Poseidon-like misadventure right here in the U.S. Trouble on a cruise ship. It lists injuring more than a dozen passengers. We'll have an update on that as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) S. O'BRIEN: Coming to you live from Larnaca in Cyprus again, we're back with our Arab affairs editor, Octavia Nasr.

Octavia, it's been interesting to see, as we've been reporting on what's been happening today and this morning and overnight, Israel hasn't been in Lebanon since 2000, outside of some incursions in. And it's unclear right now whether or not they're there to stay. But there have been reports of troops inside of Lebanon.

What's the impact in the Arab world of that news when the troops are out since 2000?

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: You know, the main -- the general feeling right now is that this is not new for Israel to commit an act of aggression against an Arab neighbor. So there is no surprise. The surprise really is at the extent of that aggression.

I was reading earlier one of the commentaries that said, you know, not the first time that Israel goes to war against an Arab neighbor, but it is the first time it goes to war to this extent. I think the aggression, you know, at least from the Arab world's perspective, from the Arab media, is that Israel has crossed the line at this point. If people were going to perhaps support it in a way, even indirectly at this point, they're not able to.

S. O'BRIEN: Here's what President Bush had said about Syria's involvement. And he's said similar things over the last couple of days, but this is most recently what he said about Syria -- what he perceives to be Syria's involvement in all of this.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Syria's trying to get back into Lebanon, it looks like to me. And there are suspicions that the instability created by the Hezbollahian (ph) attacks will cause some in Lebanon to invite Syria back in. And that would be -- it's against the United Nations policy and it's against the U.S. policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Against the United Nation's policy, against U.S. policy, but very realistic at this point to have Syria actually come back in when you consider the degree to which Lebanon's been badly damaged at this point.

NASR: Right. But, you know, that sentiment is echoed in the Arab world. There are many people who think that Syria is sort of enjoying this situation because it feels that there is a chance of it coming back, although the Syrian ambassador to the U.N. said it clearly, that Syria is not interested in coming back to Lebanon.

Many people in the Arab world are not buying that. As a matter of fact, as soon as these strikes began on Lebanon, the Israel strikes began on Lebanon, there was an official statement from Syria saying, we will be there for Hezbollah, we will support Hezbollah, if attacked.

So, not many people are buying that. More people in the Arab world support the president's position that maybe Syria is going to see this as an invitation to go back, and maybe some groups in Lebanon are going to see that as a perfect opportunity to invite Syria back and say, see, Lebanon cannot handle these situations on its own, it needs Syria to come back in.

S. O'BRIEN: What about the moderates within Lebanon? And there are many. To some degree, when you start bombing and you kill civilians, and a number of them, isn't it the equivalent of a recruiting drive, even among moderates in the Arab world?

NASR: Absolutely. Soledad, I cannot tell you -- reading, you know, editorials, listening to people speak on television in the Arab world, it's amazing. People are hurt, they are deeply hurt to hear those voices. Actually, people saying, why are we paying the price? You know...

S. O'BRIEN: For Hezbollah's actions?

NASR: Exactly. They're saying, you know, we are peaceful, we have nothing to do with this. Why are we paying this?

I want to read this to you. This is an opinion in one newspaper which is a local Lebanese newspaper.

This person says, "We do not want our country to be a hotel in peace and a shelter in war. We want it to be our country." And then he goes on to say, "For how long will our country live in periods of peace between war and war?"

This is really the general feeling there. People feel that the world doesn't really care for Lebanon and the Lebanese, that when everything is fine in Lebanon, people go in for tourism, they go there for schooling, they go there and enjoy the peace. And as soon as there's war, people hide in shelters.

And they feel that in between, Lebanon is not supported by the international community. And, you know, the moderates are starting now to speak out about that.

They're saying, you know, look, we don't want to support this side or that side. We just want to live in peace.

And they, it seems like, when you listen to them, they really want someone to step in and take their side. They feel that they are not being heard at this point.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Lebanon really on track to have a banner year in tourism. And you certainly heard about all the rebuilding and the construction. It's really such a shame that the infrastructure is just being wiped out in many cases.

Octavia Nasr is our senior Arab affairs editor.

Thanks, Octavia. Appreciate it -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Soledad.

Let's get right into northern Israel right now. CNN's Paula Newton is right along the border with Lebanon, where Israeli armored divisions continue their constant barrage into southern Lebanon, trying to knock out those Hezbollah positions responsible for firing those rockets.

Paula, tell us, what's the latest?

NEWTON: They have now repositioned their guns, and they feel that they have some intelligence where they are going to hit some more missile sites that's both short range and long range. It has been pretty relentless here for the last few days, Miles, and they feel they're having an effect. There aren't as many Katyushas landing here.

As we've said, the problem is Hezbollah then turns its targets towards civilian populations like Haifa. Their strategy has changed, though. Instead of sending those Katyushas sporadically, Hezbollah seems to be targeting the civilian areas in barrages.

The other thing going on here with special forces, Miles, is there have been several incursions into Lebanon. They say what they are trying to do is try and create some type of a buffer zone where they are actually cleaning out Hezbollah posts that had been set up along the border here, they say, in the last six years.

By the army's estimate, they perhaps, they think, have cut out 30 to 40 percent of the missile storage that Hezbollah had. You're talking anywhere from 3,000 to 4,000 missiles. But, Miles, there are a lot more Katyushas and other long-range missiles that Hezbollah still has in its possession -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Paula, how are they identifying targets there? What kind of intelligence do they have? How are they picking out exactly where they're going to fire?

NEWTON: For obvious reasons, they obviously won't tell us. Something that's worked very well in the past for the Israelis are unmanned drones, and they are crawling with them. Then they go in and they do have special forces that kind of back up that kind of information.

But, Miles, a lot of the, let's say, more sensitive targets that are in civilian areas are not done by these guns that you're seeing right here, because they're just not accurate enough and they just don't have the ability to do that. That's normally handled by airstrikes.

They find that this is very effective for those border areas where Hezbollah has sets up those kinds of bunkers, ammunition dumps, and actually where their guerrillas are. And some of them are still there.

The other problem, though, here, Miles, is even for these guns, is that the guerrillas melt into the civilian population. That is according to the Israel army. And so, you know, people here on the ground even tell me there's only so much you can do, even with this kind of firepower on the ground -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, Paula, we just heard from Karl Penhaul, who's on the other side of the border, and he's reporting quite a bit of civilian casualties.

Are the troops there addressing that issue at all with you? Have you discussed that with them?

NEWTON: They are absolutely very careful not to say anything about that, not even off the record. I did speak with a commander two days ago and put that question to him. He says, and you've heard this before, they claim it's Hezbollah's fault, that Hezbollah, even more than ever, has abandoned their posts where they know these guys are firing and melted into the civilian population with mobile launchers.

And so they say that, as much as they can, that they are allowing the civilian population to flee and then striking those areas. But no doubt, as you can see from the firepower here, that there are a lot of civilians in the line of fire.

I also know that even this morning, the Israeli military was dropping leaflets in southern Lebanon in a plea to tell civilians to again get out of the way. We've even heard reports that there have been clashes between Hezbollah and the civilian population. As civilians are trying to flee and empty those towns, Hezbollah is asking them to stay and give them some support. We cannot confirm that independently right now. Those are from Israeli radio reports -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, it's worth pointing out to folks, Paula, that Hezbollah is more than a group. Some would call them a terrorist group. But in southern Lebanon, they represent civilian authority. They really are the de facto government. And so, it must be difficult for civilians to make that decision to flee.

Where are they going to go to?

NEWTON: They are the people that are responsible for sanitation, for water, for schools. So many things in southern Lebanon have been provided by Hezbollah in one way or another.

And in southern Lebanon itself, you will not see a lot of support for some people who say Hezbollah haven't acted too rationally to kidnap those Israel soldiers. They are behind Hezbollah.

And as you point out, they rely on it as a political organization to fight for their interests in southern Lebanon, and that includes getting to them things, like organizing their schools, their water, their sanitation, their roads, and making sure that that area tries to flourish economically. Right now, Miles, from everything we can see on the grounds and everything the Israel forces tell us, they are absolutely being pounded. And that's what Cal Perry is feeling on the other end of this border.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. You mentioned the pounding. Maybe we can pull the camera back. If you can just give us the lay of the land there, I can count one, two, three, four -- well, I don't know, the camera just went by so quickly -- at least eight tanks there.

Give us a sense of what you see there and where they're pointing their weapons.

NEWTON: They are here 24/7, and they have -- it's been pretty much relentless. We were here all night and you could hear the guns going all night.

And as you say, they do have some good intelligence about certain outposts that they know are there, that they know have missiles. They will retarget certain areas that they already hit before to make sure that they've gotten to all the armor and all the missiles that Hezbollah has.

This is a fairly flat area. What they're having trouble with right now, Miles, and why we keep looking over our shoulders, is that they've have had a lot of problems with ammunitions just exploding and causing fire on the ground.

It's very dry here on the ground right now. And believe me, we really run for cover when we see those flames come on the ground.

Keep in mind again, Miles, this is the same battalion that's been here for about four or five nights, 24/7, and they're pretty tired and hot right now. And they keep repositioning those guns. They seem to be getting much more intelligence in pretty much by the hour about where new targets are and where it would be useful to continue to throw some artillery in there and some shells. They tell us that they have a range of anywhere from five to about 17 or 18 miles.

M. O'BRIEN: And they're shooting over a mountain range, or at least a fairly high hill. How do they know -- are they getting good intelligence back as to how accurate their fire is? And to what extent are they just firing sort of randomly, if at all?

NEWTON: They tell me -- they say -- when I spoke to the battalion commander, he says that they are not firing randomly at all and they're trying to stay away from civilian areas.

If you could imagine that in a landscape like this, on the other side of the border you will have Hezbollah outpost almost as if they are an army or a government. There are flags, there are bunkers, and they have know that they have been there for years.

Miles, they have been gathering intelligence on this for five or six years. They've been ready with that kind of intelligence. What's on the ground right now, a lot of it is the unmanned drones. And they obviously get a lot of intelligence from the pilots in the air right now over southern Lebanon.

We should say again that they repeated to me often on the ground here that they have made several ground incursions only with special forces, only for a few hours, very small teams, and then they come back in. That they at this point right now have no intention to go in with ground forces -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: But having said that, they have crossed over in some cases, which points out, I guess, the limitation -- despite all that heavy firepower you're amid there, there are some limitations to what it can do.

NEWTON: You know, I know we've heard this a million times, even in terms of different kind of conflicts, and the same holds true here. Miles, you're not going to do too much with air power and tanks. You really do need forces on the ground to make sure that Hezbollah is knocked out.

And we're hearing a lot of capitulation here on the ground right now in Israel that they don't believe that they can knock out Hezbollah 100 percent unless they have a ground invasion. And right now there is no appetite here for a full-scale ground invasion of Lebanon at this point.

They feel that they're doing what they can to at least annihilate the missile capability, and they will be open to an international force then patrolling the border and making sure Hezbollah doesn't rearm -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Paula Newton, who is with an Israeli armored regiment there on the border with Lebanon.

Thank you very much.

When we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about what the end game is for Israel.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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