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American Morning

History of the Wailing Wall; Tricky Diplomacy in the Middle East

Aired July 21, 2006 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody, as we come to you live from Jerusalem this morning. Lots of developments out of the Middle East to update you on. There have been renewed attacks in Haifa, northern Israel. There are injuries reported. We've got a reporter there live. We're going to bring a report to you just ahead this morning.
And with the calling up of reserves and leafletting in the southern part of Lebanon of Lebanese civilians, is Israel now preparing for a ground offensive into Lebanon? Paula Newton is on the border there for us and she is reporting on a big mobilization.

Here in Jerusalem, it's business as usual -- kind of. The city has taken in some 600 families. They're housing those who have fled the violence in the north. Also just about an hour from here, there were some 3,000 other people who are being housed and fed and essentially entertained and taken care of because they also have fled the violence.

But in the old city, truly, is where you get a very good sense of -- maybe the most obvious sense that things are now, with renewed violence, somewhat different. We took a tour this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN (on camera): You can see at this checkpoint, everybody's I.D. is being checked. Israel controls security around the old city, and so they've really increased the security in light of the recent escalation and fighting.

There's always security here. No question about that. But it is Friday, the start of the Sabbath, and that means that there's more security than usual.

See that blimp up there? That blimp is armed with cameras and those cameras are doing surveillance over the entire old city, specifically because of the recent escalation. And we're going to head into this gate, which is bringing us right into the Jewish corridor. You can see security greatly increased.

To a large degree, it's business as usual here inside the old city. Lots of tourists are out taking tours. And, of course, businesses are open. Muslim merchants, Jewish merchants and Christian merchants, Armenian merchants, selling their waves. So things seem the same, in some ways. Other people say there is an underlying sense of tension, of nervousness, of the citizens here.

You hear the prayers being broadcast -- time for morning prayers. We're walking toward the Western Wall, which of course is a site of huge historical and also religious significance, not just to Jews, but to Muslims and Christians as well.

The Western Wall, or as tourists often refer to it as the Wailing Wall, dates back to the second century B.C., and it's the source of a lot of conflict for several reasons. First, it's location. You take a look, you've got the Muslim Dome of the Rock right over there, and then over here, the Al-Aqsa Mosque. The conflict also is a result of who's got control and who';s controlling access, as well. The Israeli government has had control since 1967.

This wall is all that remains of the Second Temple of Jerusalem, which was destroyed, and so it's become a location of both huge religious significance and also huge historical significance, as well.

The wall measures about 160 feet long and about 60 feet high. It's divided into two sections: a men's section and a woman's section. And there is a belief that the divine presence never leaves this wall. And it's not just the tourism, it's not just the religious and historical significance. There's a huge emotional connection, especially Jews. Israel lost control of the region between 1948 and 1967.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: So that historical perspective, the religious perspective, that really, essentially, it's the combination of the two and the recent conflict is -- I think everybody -- I think it's fair to say, Miles, here wary, tense, a little bit. People have referenced that they can feel it somewhat in Jerusalem, even though they are further south of where all the action and the shelling is going on this morning -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you struck, Soledad, when you see so many cultures, so many religions, in such close proximity at -- in many respects, how similar all of them are and how close they might be to perhaps understanding as opposed to waging war against each other?

S. O'BRIEN: What I think you're struck by is how long -- and historically -- you know, how long the conflict's been going on, frankly. You see in the building of the mosque, this is a conflict that has its roots so far back. So no, I don't necessarily think that the past -- the peace is very close.

And this most recent conflict is really essentially, as you well know, has its roots in all the historical conflict and the religious conflict, as well. And that, of course, complicates everything. At the end of the day, it's not just about three kidnapped soldiers. It's about much more than that -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Good historical perspective. Thank you, Soledad. The cycle of violence in the Middle East has never presented an easy solution. This time, it seems harder than ever. So what's the secretary of state or a general secretary, for that matter, to do? And for that matter, what are diplomats on the front lines advising in their cables to Foggy Bottom?

Joining us from Houston is Edward Djerejian. He is a former U.S. ambassador to both Israel and Syria. He's now director of the Baker Institute for Public Policy at Rice University.

Ambassador, good to have you with us. Unique perspective, having worked in both Damascus and in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

I want to share with you a piece of a "Washington Post" editorial this morning that struck us. The editorial is suggesting the U.S. should ignore Syria. I'll read a portion of it. "The best diplomatic step the Bush administration can take toward Syria is to ignore Mr. Assad" -- Bashar Assad, the leader of Syria. "He should be excluded from any settlement of the current crisis and from the post-war order in Lebanon."

The point in the editorial, Ambassador, is that by engaging Assad, you make him a player. Once you make him a player, he once again has influence in Lebanon like he had before the Cedar Revolution. What are your thoughts?

AMB. EDWARD DJEREJIAN, FMR. U.S. AMB. TO ISRAEL: Well, I think the -- I come -- Miles, I come from the school of diplomacy that you negotiate conflict resolution and peace with your adversaries and your enemies, not with your friends. I think it's unrealistic to think that the current crisis between Hezbollah and Israel; Lebanon, Israel, can be resolved just on the basis of dealing with those immediate parties.

Any diplomatic effort undertaken by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, the secretary-general, the international community, is going to have to engage all the parties who are involved. And that includes Syria and even Iran, that has a major influence on Hezbollah. How do you that is the task of diplomacy.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, but so you think it's possible to do that kind of engagement without emboldening or strengthening the hand that Syria plays in the region.

DJEREJIAN: Miles, we did it in 1991, when I was ambassador to Damascus. We dealt with very tough, muscular diplomacy with the then president Hafez al-Assad. We used carrots and sticks with the Syrian regime, and we got them to agree to direct face-to-face negotiations with Israel for the first time in the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Look, you have to deal with the players. Even if they're bad players, you have to deal with them in order to get an agreement on the ground that's going to hold.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, let me ask you this. Before a secretary of state ever gets on a plane and heads to a region like this -- and we're told it could happen as early as Tuesday in the case of Condoleezza Rice -- a lot of groundwork is done by the likes of your successors on the ground there to make sure that she comes back with something. What do you think is in the works? What sort of pressure is being brought to bear on Israel, for example, to try to give Condoleezza Rice something to walk away with?

DJEREJIAN: Well, it's really not a question, Miles, of pressure per se. The task of diplomats and secretaries of state is really to create a strategic environment, whereby there are buy-ins for all the players and costs to all the players for not taking certain constructive acts. So in that respect, a diplomatic scenario has to be mapped out by our diplomats, by our secretary of state, in which we can get a sustainable cease-fire on the Lebanese-Israeli border.

We can embolden and reinforce the Lebanese government to exert its force on the border, and we can also deal with Abu Mazen, the Palestinian -- president of the Palestinian Authority to reinforce and restrengthen the moderates, and marginalize the extremists, such as Hezbollah, and Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. That is the task of diplomacy, and it can be done.

M. O'BRIEN: That's a tall order. Let's shift gears here for just a moment, because we were also struck by the prime minister of Lebanon, Siniora, Fouad Siniora, on "LARRY KING LIVE" last night.

Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FOUAD SINIORA, PRIME MINISTER OF LEBANON: This attack is no longer against Hezbollah. It's an attack against the Lebanese and Lebanon, and this, in fact, is bringing the country back more than 20 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: If Hezbollah is the cancer, Israel is trying to root it out, could they kill the patient as well, Lebanon?

DJEREJIAN: It's happening, and that's why one of the most immediate objectives of the diplomatic scenario that's going to unfold in the next few weeks is to reinforce the power of the Lebanese government, enable it to exert authority and sovereign authority throughout its whole territory, up to the borders with Israel. And that may mean an international peacekeeping force of some form or another on the border, but it certainly means that, what we have to do is strengthen the moderate leaders in the region, such as the prime minister of Lebanon, such as the president of the Palestinian Authority.

M. O'BRIEN: Ambassador Edward Djerejian, thank you very much for your time.

DJEREJIAN: You're very welcome, Miles.

(NEWSBREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come in the program, the fighting rages on in Gaza. Is the notion of a Palestinian state a casualty of war?

And maybe they can get along. Arabs and Israelis, young people, together, trying to learn, and respect, and understand each other, even as the bombs and rockets fly. We'll give you a closer look at that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

As we report to you live from Jerusalem this morning, we've been telling you a lot about the fighting going on in the border between Israel and Lebanon, but fighting continues as well today in Gaza with reports of shelling. The latest, as you well know, really the result of the kidnapping of that corporal, Gilad Shalit.

For some Palestinian perspective this morning, we talk to Hannan Ashrawi. She's a Palestinian legislator, also a former peace negotiator for the Palestinians. She is in Ramallah in the West Bank.

It's nice to see you, Mrs. Ashrawi. Thank you for talking with us.

HANNAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: Than you. Thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's first begin with the very latest out of Gaza. What can you tell us about Corporal Shalit and the search for him? What are you doing to assist on that front?

ASHRAWI: Well, actually, President Abbas has been trying to create a situation in which there can be negotiations and discussions in order to release prisoners on both sides. And of course the Egyptians have been trying to mediate, to no avail lately.

The thing is, you cannot try to achieve any results through the use of violence, through the obliteration of whole families, through shelling and bombing of the civilian areas, killing over 140 Palestinians, and expecting to see any kind of results.

Israel has, in many ways, used the tool of abduction and of kidnapping as a means of political pressure, and therefore created the type of lawlessness and violence in the region. Now it is that this approach is dropped by both sides.

Israel has over 10,000 Palestinian prisoners who have been kidnapped themselves from Palestine. It's time that there is a prisoner release, there are negotiations, and there is hope. You've got to provide both peoples with the prospects of peace through a negotiated settlement. S. O'BRIEN: Let me interrupt you for a moment there, because when I was talking just a little while ago to the Israeli -- spokesman for the Israeli foreign minister, it's about the soldiers, but it's also not about the soldiers, to a large degree; it's about the role of Hezbollah. And in the latest fighting that we've been reporting on mostly today -- and to some degree, the role of Hamas, as well, and the relationship that Israel is going to have with its neighbors.

Do you think that Hezbollah is essentially exploiting, to some degree, the Palestinian problems, making things worse for your situation?

ASHRAWI: Hezbollah is a Lebanese phenomenon, and it is dealing with the Lebanese-occupied territories and it has also domestic concerns in the power struggle, as well as regional concerns. And I'm sure, like any other political party, it will try to make use of whatever cards are available.

But the Palestinian situation is one of occupation. The Palestinian situation is a yearning for freedom, for getting rid of the occupation, the control and the subjugation by Israel of a totally civilian population.

And we need to end the occupation. The context is not the abduction. You know, all right, this is more than the abduction. It is even more than parties or militants, more than Hamas or Hezbollah. It's a question of a people who want to be free.

Now, when the prevailing language is one of violence, of extremism, of escalation, of expansion, building wars, building settlements, land theft and so on, that legitimizes the counterpart. And it helps -- it contributes to extremism, fundamentalism and violence. So we have to relegitimize the language of moderation and the language of peaceful reconciliation, and the resolution of the conflict. Therefore, the occupation itself is the context that must be addressed, and the peace process is what is needed with American and international engagement.

S. O'BRIEN: As I know you're well aware, Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, is going to be coming to the region. Do you think the U.S. has -- and many people predict that the fighting's not going to stop, frankly, until she gets here. Do you think that the U.S. has not done enough to bring the fighting to a conclusion? Do you think the U.S., in some respects, as some have said, is asleep at the wheel?

ASHRAWI: No, the U.S. is not asleep at the wheel. The U.S. is seeing in this an opportunity to give Israel room and space to wreak havoc in the region, to destroy Hezbollah and Hamas, which are two impossible objectives, and at the same time to allow Israel to carry out its own objectives.

So it is delaying any kind of involvement. It's a very clear sin of omission that is creating a tragic situation of loss of life, destruction. In Lebanon, we are seeing the destruction of the infrastructure of whole buildings, of whole residential areas, of the airport, of the bridges and the roads and so on. In Gaza, we've seen the total destruction of the very fabric of life. Not just infrastructure, all our institutions. And we've seen strikes against the power systems, against water. People are living in absolutely atrocious, unconscionable conditions.

The willful lack of involvement by the U.S. is an extremely serious abrogation of responsibility and is being seen in the region as collusion with Israel. And therefore, the U.S. is losing a great deal of its credibility and standing because it is seen as not only an ally of Israel and blind support of Israel, but actually in giving Israel more encouragement and the cover, legal and political, to continue with this destruction, and therefore to continue with the destablization of the whole region. If the U.S. wants to have a role and wants to...

S. O'BRIEN: Hannan...

ASHRAWI: ... to have a standing, it must have a positive, even- handed role in peacemaking.

S. O'BRIEN: Hannan Ashrawi. We're out of time. She's, of course, the Palestinian legislator and a former negotiator for peace. Thank you for talking with us this morning.

Got to take a short bleak. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: We'll get back to our coverage of the Middle East in a moment. Let's spend a moment now dreaming about life after work. Andy Serwer introduces us to a retired butcher who is working on a different sort of slice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN FURIN, MARATHON GOLFER: 3:45. Tee-time is at 4:00.

ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While most people are counting sheep, 64-year-old John Furin is counting strokes.

FURIN: Golfing in the dark I've found the most fun I've ever had with this game. Nice and peaceful. Nobody else is out here.

SERWER: Four years ago, this retired butcher traded in his meat cleaver for a 9-iron. He plays three to five rounds per day, seven days a week, at his home course in Hibbing, Minnesota.

FURIN: Last Wednesday, I was here 18 hours.

SERWER: Furin spends winters shoveling snow and working on home projects, but from April through October, it's marathon this golf. He put over 2,000 miles on his golf cart last summer. That's like driving from Manhattan to Salt Lake City. He played 572 rounds. This summer, he's going for 600.

GARY YEAGER, GOLF PRO, MESABA COUNTRY CLUB: I almost get nauseated, you know, a sickening feeling, just envisioning having to play 600 rounds a year. It's insane.

FURIN: There's a lot of them that say I'm crazy, but they would love to be able to do it.

Oh, come off of it, will you?

As bad as I play, I always want to play more. This is our little paradise. When you were young, you used to go to the playgrounds with slides. When you get older, now you go to a golf course. Many hours of entertainment out here.

SERWER: Andy Serwer, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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