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President Bush, Iraqi Prime Minister Hold News Conference; Condoleezza Rice Pushes for U.S. Plan for Peace in Mideast Region; IDF Says Israel Gains Control of Bint Jbeil; Getting Aid Into Lebanon Difficult

Aired July 25, 2006 - 11:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: There are more Iraqi troops. They are getting better equipped. But the violence levels haven't stopped.

And the reason that U.S. commanders say that's the case is they believe the terrorists, the opponents of the government realize that Baghdad is the place where this battle is going to be fought. So, that's why you're seeing this program.

And interestingly, you heard President Bush say that part of this is not so much a big influx of American troops, but embedding more American trainers with particularly the Iraqi police to make them more effective, and to shift their tactics to basically take back Baghdad a neighborhood at a time. Moving from securing an area, re-establishing security, then moving to another area. Recognizing that the tactic that they had been using before, sort of a blanket approach of wider patrols, really hasn't been effective in stemming the violence.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Jamie, thank you for that.

And, of course, we've been listening in to this news conference at the White House, with the focus being the war in Iraq. It also has hit close to home for many Americans.

We want to step back and take a closer look at the casualties of war.

Our Carol Lin has a CNN "Fact Check."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Two U.S. troops are killed on average each day in Iraq, 139 of those deaths occurred before President Bush uttered his now famous remark exactly three weeks after the fall of Baghdad.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended.

LIN: Since then, the Defense Department has logged more than 2,500 American combat deaths in Iraq. At least 226 troops from other countries have also died in Iraq. Half of them from Britain. In addition, nearly 19,000 U.S. troops have been wounded since the war began. An average of more than 15 per day. The Pentagon reports more than half, 54 percent, return to duty within 72 hours.

The brunt of the violence is borne by Iraqi civilians. The U.N. reports some 14,000 Iraqis have been killed so far in 2006 alone. No final tally may ever be own. Estimates of civilian deaths since 2003 range from 35,000 to 50,000. In other words, for every coalition troop killed, at least 13 Iraqis lose their lives, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: I want to go back to what we were listening to with the news conference that just was concluded at the White House with the Iraqi prime minister and with President Bush, bring in Jane Arraf. She's with the Council of Foreign Relations, but of course you recognize her beautiful face from all the work she's done with us as our Baghdad correspondent and CNN.

Jane, a big part of the end of that news conference, the Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, focused a lot on not what's happening with his country -- and boy does he have enough to focus on there -- focusing more on what's happening in Beirut and calling for an immediate cease-fire.

Why the interest from this Iraqi prime minister when he has enough to focus on at home?

JANE ARRAF, COUNCIL OF FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, part of it is he's got a domestic audience, too. And certainly those airstrikes attacking the Lebanese infrastructure, those daily images of Lebanese civilians being killed and wounded, are not playing well at home. So that's something he's got to do, as well as feeling it deeply himself.

But I really thought that the interesting thing about that press conference was what they didn't say, which is the fact that a lot of that violence within Iraq, within Baghdad is actually still being blamed on elements within Iraqi security forces. So when President Bush says that killers and terrorists are trying to shake the will of the Iraqi people, it kind of sidesteps the issue that those killers are increasingly from among the Iraqi people.

You're absolutely right, he's got a lot to deal with.

KAGAN: And those security forces tend to be dominated by Shia.

ARRAF: They are. The thought is that they have become increasingly violent in response to Sunni attacks. So we've seen this spiraling violence. But that really was the elephant in the room that wasn't mentioned, nor were the issue -- was the issue of militias, another key thing that he's dealing with, of course, and his promise to actually bring under the control of security forces.

That wasn't mentioned at all.

KAGAN: Let's bring General Donald Shepperd back in here. And I think we have some maps to help illustrate how the region is tied together.

You heard the Iraqi prime minister, as I was pointing out, talking about what's happening in Beirut. Let's given an idea how far, Beirut to Baghdad, about 500 miles. And for the American audience, about from Washington, D.C., to Charleston, South Carolina.

How does that play in militarily?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, militarily, the U.S. -- first of all, the U.S. is heavily involved in Iraq, tied down in Iraq. It is not playing a big part in Lebanon, other than evacuation.

The United States certainly does not want to go back into Iraq. It does not want to see itself involved in any more combat operations in the region. It's got enough to do in Iraq itself.

KAGAN: You mean it doesn't want to go into Lebanon.

SHEPPERD: Absolutely it does not want to go into Lebanon.

KAGAN: Yes, OK.

SHEPPERD: So what I'm saying is, basically, you're going to see us getting U.S. civilians out of the Lebanon situation, but you're not going to see us putting Marines in there to take any action. And you're probably not going to see us as part of any stabilization force.

KAGAN: And, in fact, even though U.S. warships moved into the area, into the Lebanese area to help with those evacuations, very deliberate in how those operations were carried out.

SHEPPERD: Yes, indeed. Now, some interesting things about this evacuation.

You heard people criticizing early on, why can't the Americans get their civilians out when the French and other people can? Well, first of all, there were a lot of American civilians there that had to be evacuated. And the key is not to rush in to start getting civilians out. The key is to get everybody out safely.

The plan was put together very carefully. It was a large operation. You want to make sure that hostages are not taken and that your people going in to get those out don't turn out to be targets and don't have to shoot at the people that you're trying to rescue there.

So, very dicey and well, well-crafted operation, I would say, at least so far -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Back to Jane Arraf.

After listening in to this news conference, do you have a feeling that this meeting between the prime minister and the president will bring solid results, or in the end this will just be a symbolic visit? ARRAF: I would think most people will say it's the right step forward. And again, when they're talking about embedding, essentially, military police, American military police, with Iraqi police forces in the same vein that they're trying to embed more military advisors, what that really refers to is the fact that the key to this, the key to stability, security, reducing that sectarian violence in Baghdad, to a large part, is getting Iraqis to trust their security forces.

Now, that may be easier if you have American police with those Iraqi police. It seems odd, but that is the dynamic right now that a lot of Iraqis are afraid of their own security people.

KAGAN: Jane, you've been embedded with the military there in Iraq. What did you think of when they were talking about that the Iraqi forces needed better equipment. What are their equipment issues?

ARRAF: Astonishing. And I have to say, I mean, thinking back to covering the training and the equipping of Iraqi security forces from the beginning, for over a year I was seeing Iraqi soldiers training in plastic sandals.

I've gone to the site of suicide car bombs outside police stations, and instead of concrete blast barriers, they had barbed wire strung between chairs. A little disheartening to hear that now, still, they don't have enough equipment.

KAGAN: And getting back to this point of the security forces being dominated almost exclusively by Shiites, take us back a step, or maybe a few steps, how they got to this point. Early on there was a decision to not allow Sunnis to participate in the military.

ARRAF: It wasn't really not so much to allow Sunnis, but that is, you're absolutely right, sort of what happened in practical terms. Because what they did -- and you'll probably remember those images, Daryn, of those protests by Iraqi army generals outside the Green Zone early on, after they disbanded the army.

What that meant was that there were thousands, literally thousands of Iraqi generals thrown out of work. Now, a large proportion of them were Shia, as well as Sunni, but it essentially removed that class of officers, that leadership, and it created what many people feel is the basis for that Iraqi-based insurgency.

So it has been predominantly Shia and predominantly Kurdish. We can't forget the Kurds. The Kurds have operated, securing their own territory in northern Iraq since 1991.

It is becoming more integrated in places, but from what I've seen on the ground, it is still largely Arabs and Kurds, and mostly Shia Arabs, and there isn't a lot of integration among those units.

KAGAN: Jane Arraf, thank you.

Let's see how this is all playing in Baghdad. Our Arwa Damon standing by there -- Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Well, we just heard a few very interesting comments from both the U.S. and Iraqi leaders, President Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister al- Maliki. This is his first trip to the United States, and for the Iraqi people, perhaps the main significance that it really does hold is going to be the question of exactly what will their prime minister be able to go to the United States and bring back from there in terms of a concrete promise, a concrete plan for security and stability.

Now, this was not presented in that press conference; however, there were a number of issues that were outlined. Number one being the matter of security in Baghdad, which is a concern on everyone's mind, especially the Iraqis that live in the capital.

There has been an increase in violence here, both in acts of sectarian violence and death squads, and militias going out and carrying out acts of violence, be it Sunni or Shia, in attacks that have been on an uptick in areas like a marketplace or just in front of a bank or while Iraqis are just going about their daily lives. But what Iraqis really here want from their prime minister when he comes back is going to be the type of plan that's not just going to be spoken about, but one that is actually going to lead to something tangible that is going to change their lives -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Also would like to get your take, Arwa, because you've been embedded with military there in Iraq probably more times than you can even count. The comments you heard about the shortcomings of what the military has to deal with there, how they need the better equipment and the additional troops?

DAMON: Well, there's a couple of interesting things.

Number one is that the Iraqi security forces do need to be better equipped. And I don't think that there is anyone that's going to actually dispute that.

They need more armor, they need to have their own air support. They are highly dependent on the United States military for air support.

They need better logistics, not only in the sense of actually having the equipment, the trucks to carry out logistical support for their forward units, but also on a division level, on that higher level of the structure of the military to be able to actually carry out logistical operations, to move food, move troops around, and better organize their higher structures. This is an issue that has come up on a number of operations that I've been on.

And really, the readiness of troops does vary from certain parts of the country. In some areas, you have Iraqi security forces that are conducting brigade-size operations. In other areas, only battalion, and some areas just company-size. But they do need a lot.

In terms of their progress, commanders here will say of course they are progressing. They -- it's an ongoing process, though. And progress is really very slow. In fact, here on the ground in Iraq, it's measured by little day-to-day successes.

Now, in terms of Baghdad, when we speak about Baghdad, there has been a security plan in place here for quite some months. The fruits -- we have not really quite seen the fruits of that.

If you ask Iraqis about the security plan, they'll say, well, all it's really done is increased checkpoints and caused traffic jams and really made our lives a lot more difficult. In fact, some will even say that it is a failed and flawed security plan.

Now, to contrast that, the Iraqi prime minister and President Bush both said that they will be increasing troop presence in Baghdad, drawing troops from other parts of the country to increase U.S. and Iraqi troops presence here in the capital. The capital is believed to be the fighting ground between the death squads, the insurgents and the government -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. Arwa Damon in Baghdad.

Thank you.

We've been covering the news conference between the Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, with Arwa Damon, our Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, Major General Don Shepperd, and Jane Arraf as well.

Thank you to all of our correspondents and contributors, as well.

That's going to wrap up our coverage on the domestic side, but the coverage of the story continues. We'll be taking a break. After the break we'll be joining our colleagues at CNN International for more coverage from Iraq and the Middle East.

I'm Daryn Kagan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson in Beirut in Lebanon. You're watching our continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East.

Let's get you more details now on U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's plans that she is proposing to leaders in the region. The plan would require compromises and commitments from both Lebanon and indeed from Israel.

The main component would be a new multinational peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon. Now, that would consist of up to 10,000 Turkish and Egyptian troops, and eventually as many as 30,000 troops under a NATO or U.N. commander. Now, the plan also calls for the deployment of Lebanese army to the south and the disarmament of Hezbollah and other militia.

Well, as for Israel, it would need to agree to conditions include the transfer of the disputed Shebaa Farms area from Israel to Lebanon. The plan also calls for a prisoner swap. And Israel would have to agree to end its offensive in Lebanon.

Well, let's get more analysis and assessment of the details that we are just getting on this plan. I'm joined now by our Beirut bureau chief, Brent Sadler, who of course has covered this region for many, many years.

Some interesting facts coming through. More details on what Condoleezza Rice is proposing.

Is it workable at this point?

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: This is a very ambitious plan that calls on the international community. Discussions taking place in Rome Wednesday to put in a robust force. Think of this not as a peacekeeping force, but a robust force that will satisfy the needs of the international community in terms of stability here and will satisfy the conditions on the ground that would mean Israel's requirements, and that would mean stopping those Katyusha rockets hitting Israel.

ANDERSON: Do we know whether NATO has effectively agreed to deploying troops at this point?

SADLER: No, this is a U.S. plan at the table at the moment. It does have attached to it from the Lebanese side the return of the Israeli-occupied Shebaa Farms, which in itself is a difficult problem to entangle. But essentially, it means Israel being satisfied first, and primarily that Hezbollah will stop firing rockets or will be prevented from firing rockets into Israel, and then add into that the components that would see an internationally guaranteed plan that would disarm Hezbollah ultimately.

ANDERSON: Crucially, it doesn't call for an immediate cease- fire, does it?

SADLER: No, it does not call for an immediate cease-fire, and that paves the way really for a continuation on what we're seeing Israel doing, which is, what, trying to paralyze Hezbollah's command and control center -- where is it headquartered? In the southern suburbs of Beirut -- and basically trying to attack the leadership from the ongoing battles in south Lebanon.

ANDERSON: I want to talk about what we've heard from some of the other regional leaders. But you've just brought up the fact that south Beirut is under continued bombardment from the Israelis.

We had a 24-hour lull, effectively, while Condoleezza Rice was here, one assumes. But we've heard once again huge explosions, as big as I've heard since I've been here in the last week or so.

What do we know about those?

SADLER: Well, we know a couple of hours ago there were tremendous explosions that rocked downtown Beirut. These attacks, strikes centered on Hezbollah's stronghold in the southern suburbs, a continuation, according to Lebanese military intelligence sources, on what we've seen hit already.

Israel trying to go after the command control mechanisms of Hezbollah and after the leadership itself. Israel says quite clearly that to stop those rockets not just for the short term, but the long time it will go on hitting Israel's leadership.

ANDERSON: Briefly, Saudi Arabia says this must end now otherwise there could be a regional war.

Your reaction?

SADLER: That is quite clearly on the cards, because if this isn't contained, if there isn't diplomatic efforts that can bear fruit in terms of an international force, the big worry amongst Arab leaders who look at the reaction of their own street is that this intensification, the conflict, will continue here and could spread to Syria and Iran. And Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, warning of a hurricane in the region if this isn't stopped now.

ANDERSON: The IDF, I'm just hearing, has said it has now taken complete control of Bint Jbeil. I think that is what I'm hearing. I'm pretty sure I'm correct in saying that.

If that's the case, your reaction?

SADLER: Bint Jbeil is seen by the Israelis as an arsenal, a storage point for Katyusha rockets, an important area in the south of Israel to get control of. Israel wanting to use the high ground around Bint Jbeil, to effectively use its fire power to control villages between the border and further north. Israel really in the early stages here are creating, with or without international military support, a buffer zone 20 miles up to the Litani River to try to cut off those Katyusha rocket attacks, Becky.

ANDERSON: Brent Sadler, our Beirut bureau chief.

We thank you, as always, Brent.

And that's the information that we are getting from the IDF coming to us from our correspondent John Roberts, who is in the area. The IDF has just confirmed now, suggesting that it has taken complete control of Bint Jbeil in the south. As Brent was suggesting, quite a strategic take if that indeed is the case.

Let's get back to northern Israel now and to Fionnuala.

FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, while the world's attention has been on Lebanon, Becky, insurgents have not let up on their deadly campaign in Iraq.

The Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, is in the United States for talks with President George W. Bush.

We get more now from White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne Malveaux. SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fionnuala, that press conference wrapping up about 20 minutes ago. There really was not that much meat on the bone, if you will, in terms of any kind of new developments.

Perhaps the sound bite of the day came from Prime Minister Maliki, when he said, "God willing, there will be no civil war in Iraq." President Bush backing him up, saying something very similar, that the violence in Baghdad is terrible. That in the words of both of those leaders.

So, what do they do now here? There was a tacit admission, if you will, of the failure of Maliki's program that he announced just six weeks ago when President Bush was in Baghdad with Maliki, this crackdown trying to secure Baghdad which obviously has not worked over the last six weeks. So President Bush now offering to kind of reshuffle, if you will, some of the U.S. forces, as well as the Iraqi forces, to bring them from different parts of the country to the capital to try to secure that area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The prime minister advised me that to support this plan, he and General Casey have agreed to deploy additional American troops and Iraqi security personnel in Baghdad in the coming weeks. These will come from other areas of the country.

Our military commanders tell me that this deployment will better reflect the current conditions on the ground in Iran. We also agree that Iraqi security forces need better tools to do their job. And so we'll work with them to equip them with greater mobility, fire power and protection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So, Fionnuala, of course, the question, why should anybody have any more confidence in this new plan, robust security plan, than they did six weeks ago in the other plan? President Bush saying, well, it requires more flexibility here in dealing with the enemy. Maliki saying that, well, his unity government, he's got all of the people, all of the ducks in a row, he's got support from Arab allies, so that they are hopeful here.

But clearly, these are two leaders politically tied to the future of Iraq. And clearly, both of them struggling too move forward -- Fionnuala.

SWEENEY: Suzanne Malveaux, reporting live from the White House.

And when we return, insights from our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.

ANDERSON: And later, what Israel expects to achieve from its current offensive. I'll speak with -- well, Fionnuala will certainly speak with the former Knesset member Dalia Rabin.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SWEENEY: Welcome back to our extended coverage of the crisis in the Middle East. I'm Fionnuala Sweeney in Haifa, Israel.

Now, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says it is time for a new Middle East. Rice is engaged in frenetic round of talks with leaders in the region, and she's put forth an ambition peace plan.

Well, our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, joins us now.

It is ambitious, Christiane, but will it work?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fionnuala, this has been on the table for the last several days. We broke the information over the weekend that a plan would involve a couple more weeks at least of military activity by the Israelis. It would then call for a cease-fire, plus the deployment of these international troops, and eventually the Lebanese army.

The issue, of course, is the sequencing, which still has to be worked out. The issue is also the contributors to such a force, their rules of engagement, the fact that they would very -- very necessarily have to be a robust force which would have to take on any kind of incursion activities if they were to be launched once that force was deployed. And as yet, there is no indication as yet that Hezbollah will agree to or abide by any notion of a force in southern Lebanon.

Again, as I say, the notion of the troops who would contribute is still under discussion as well.

The good news is that the Israelis have said that they would accept it. As you know, in the past, they've pretty much been hostile to any notion of foreign forces on their borders and the UNIFIL mission, the current observer mission from the U.N., is considered to have been a failure.

The other -- the other issue, of course, is the issue of a cease- fire. Of course, the United States still calls for -- well, it's not calling for an immediate cease-fire, but as some Israeli people are saying, not only analysts and experts, but media and people are saying, that while they back the strong Israeli response, they are concerned that it should not go out of control.

Some are concerned that it is a disproportionate response. Some are very concerned about the huge disparity in casualties on the Lebanese side. It remains, as it has done, at a 10-1 ratio of casualties on the Lebanese side, compared to on the Israeli side.

And we keep asking, for instance, the military about this issue, and they keep calling their operation careful of civilians. They call it a moral operation. But as I say, increasingly in the Israeli media and among some analysts and intellectuals, there is concern about what -- about would happen and what will happen if the Lebanese casualties keep mounting -- Fionnuala.

SWEENEY: All right, Christiane. I'm just going to have to leave you there for a moment, but if you will, bear with us. Stand by, please, because we have some developing news, breaking news coming from our correspondent John Roberts, who is along the Israeli-Lebanese border -- John.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SR. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good day to you, Fionnuala.

I was just at a press conference with General Dal Hirsch (ph). He is the commander of the Galilee division of the Israeli defense forces. She was speaking at the Bint Jbeil stronghold that the Israeli defense forces have here in the northern part of Israel.

General Hirsch said that in the past 24 hours Israeli defense forces have taken complete control of Bint Jbeil. That is what they describe as a Hezbollah stronghold in southern Lebanon.

As you're well aware, there has been intense fighting in Bint Jbeil over the past 48 hours. General Hirsch described it as very tough fighting, house to house, with an enemy that is well dug in. He said melding into the community, and the way General Hirsch characterized it, as using the community as shields against the advancing Israeli defense forces. General Hirsch also said, when I asked him about it, that they had to go slowly in this engagement because they had to try to, in his words, minimize civilian casualties to the greatest extent possible.

So, again, breaking news here from northern Israel. General Dal Hirsch, the commander of the Galilee division, saying that in the past 24 hours what they have described as Hezbollah's southern stronghold has now fallen under complete control of the Israeli defense forces -- Fionnuala.

SWEENEY: And John, that's the second stronghold, Hezbollah stronghold the Israeli defense forces have captured in recent days. What do they say now is their next objective?

ROBERTS: They are not talking about next objectives just yet. That's obviously something that we'll see in the coming hours. But Amir Peretz, the defense minister of Israel, did say today that the plans that Israel has is that it will hold ground in Lebanon until an international force can arrive to patrol and secure the southern part of Lebanon.

I questioned General Hirsch about that. I said how much territory does that mean, how long does that mean? Does that mean that you will temporarily occupy Southern Lebanon? He was very coy about his answers, saying that the Israeli Defense Forces do not intent to reoccupy Southern Lebanon.

But it's obvious, Fionnuala, that if they plan on maintaining a security zone in Southern Lebanon, that the Israeli army is going to have to remain there for some time. And an international defense force has not even been agreed to yet. It will take some time to reach that agreement. If, in fact, they can get that agreement, then it will take some time after that to get a defense force in place there, an international force creating a buffer zone against Hezbollah attacks on northern Israel. So it looks like the Israeli army could be in Southern Lebanon for some time.

SWEENEY: All right. John Roberts, reporting there with that news along the Israeli/Lebanese border that the Israeli military announcing that they have captured a second Hezbollah stronghold of Bint Jbeil.

Let's return now to our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, who's standing by in Jerusalem.

Christiane, you yourself have just returned from along the Lebanese/Israeli border. How much progress do you believe this news we've just heard is in real terms?

AMANPOUR: Well, can I just say that the fight and capture of Bint Jbeil took less time than the capture -- the full capture of the little town that was just in front of it, called Maroun al-Ras, which we all were talking about for several days, for several of the past days. It took a good 4-5 days to say that they had fully cleared it, and there were still skirmishes.

And this now, Bint Jbeil, if they've actually got it in their hands fully, as they say, has taken about 48 hours. So that indicates potentially -- potentially it says something about the Hezbollah resistance. Potentially it says something about how well the Israelis are doing.

But I think also, interestingly, is this very interesting either semantic wordplay or difference between the civilians and the military. Because all these last ten days, we have asked, over and over again, about holding and occupying land to the military. And every time, from the very top general, who General Udi Adam, who is the head of the Northern Command, and in whose hands this war effort is, each time we've asked, they have very clearly said that they don't want to hold land. And now we're hearing that maybe they well.

SWEENEY: All right, Christiane Amanpour, thank you very much indeed for joining us from Jerusalem.

Now we'll give you a roundup of the latest developments here in the Middle East.

The U.S. Secretary of -- the United States State of State Condoleezza Rice has been in the region. She says a cease-fire can happen only if other conditions are met. Now, among her proposals, the deployment of the new international force, a prisoner swap and the transfer of Shebaa Farms from Israel to Lebanon. Rice met separately with the Palestinian and Israeli leaders on Tuesday.

Israel has launched new strikes on the southern suburbs of Beirut, ending two days of relative calm there. War planes also pounded towns in Southern Lebanon, killing at least seven civilians. There's also heavy fighting on the ground, as troops moved in and now have captured Bint Jbeil, a Hezbollah stronghold. Israel saying it is now in full control.

And across the border, more rockets slammed into northern Israel, killing one girl. Dozens more people were hurt.

And a warning from Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah. He issued a statement saying if peace options failed because of what he called Israeli arrogance, the result could be regional war.

ANDERSON: You're watching YOUR WORLD TODAY and our continuing coverage of the crisis of the crisis in the Middle East. I'm Becky Anderson in Beirut. More news after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson in Beirut in Lebanon. You're watching YOUR WORLD TODAY, seen live (AUDIO GAP) our continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East.

Let's get more now on the details that we're getting in of the U.S.' plan for peace in the Middle East. It will be talked about at a meeting in Rome with world leaders tomorrow.

Let's get the NATO spokesman to join us now, James Appathurai, who is in Brussels. NATO, of course, will be an observer at those talks.

This plan consist of up to 10,000 Turkish and Egyptian troops as a peacekeeping force, James, but eventually as many as 30,000 troops to be in the area in South Lebanon under NATO command. Have you agreed to that?

JAMES APPATHURAI, NATO SPOKESMAN: In fact, there's been no formal proposals put to NATO, and no formal discussion here in NATO. But a -- any political role or military role that the alliance can play until now, there has been nothing of any substance brought to us. I think the meeting tomorrow in Rome to which you referred will be very important, where Secretary Rice can consult with all the relevant parties that are there. And as you mentioned, NATO will be there as an observer to try to put some shape to this in a broad international context.

ANDERSON: The U.N. security force that has been on the border now for some time has been almost completely ineffective. It hasn't been there with a deterrent effort, effectively. Would you suggest that that would be the first step, to give UNIFIL ultimately a deterrent facility at this stage, before NATO troops were to hit the ground?

APPATHURAI: I think you've hit on a very important question that all of the nations that might contribute troops to this operation are going to want to look at: the mandate. What exactly will the mission be? As you mentioned, UNIFIL has had some difficulty in the past. This is a very complex situation. The mandate, the mission, the duration of the mission, and how the regional parties relate to this operation -- support it or don't support it -- all of these will be very important considerations for any country that is considering contributing troops to a multinational force there. And I think those are some of the key issues that are going to have to be addressed in Rome.

ANDERSON: I'm wondering whether you're surprised that you haven't actually received any proposals as of yet. These are going to be discussed -- plans at least discussed in Rome tomorrow. Wouldn't you expect that you'd have at least had some more firm details of what might be proposed to you going forward?

APPATHURAI: Well, it's of course no surprise to you that many prominent NATO allies are critical to the discussions that are going on now. Of course, the United States, you mentioned Secretary Rice. But the United Kingdom has been in the region. So has Foreign Minister Steinmeier, so has the French government and many others. So, of course, NATO allies are firmly part of this discussion. And, of course, Secretary Rice in constant contact with them and of course the United States and other allies are prominently part of the alliance structure, as well.

So as these discussions go forward and when they take shape, if a request is to come to NATO at that point, in a formal and structured way, then, of course, ambassadors here would have that discussion. But right now, NATO allies, as individual countries, are engaged in the diplomacy that is necessary to take place now.

ANDERSON: NATO will be an observer, as I said, at the meeting on Wednesday in Rome. That is NATO spokesman James Appathurai, speaking to us from Brussels. James, we thank you.

Fin.

SWEENEY: Well, joining us now from Tel Aviv, Dalia Rabin, daughter of Israel's late prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, and a former Knesset member herself. Thank for you joining us.

Could I, first of all, ask you, what do you think your father would be making of the situation today?

DALIA RABIN, FMR. ISRAELI PARLIAMENT MEMBER: This is a question that I really don't like to answer, because he is dead for almost 11 years. He was assassinated, and your guess is exactly as good as mine. We know how he handled the situation in Southern Lebanon. He was against withdrawal from the military zone, and he probably wouldn't have done it, without taking the measures that should be taken.

SWEENEY: Many years ago, it is said that your father -- and please correct me if I'm wrong -- sat down and studied the demographics in this part of the world, vis-a-vis the Palestinians and the Israelis, and he realized that some kind of a peace or accommodation would have to be reached. When you look at the demographics in this region, obviously Israel surrounded by an Arab world, much of is not very well predisposed toward Israel. Does it concern you at all that this war might bring more animosity, or less?

RABIN: Well, we are very well aware of the situation, that we are a minority, among big Arab countries that surround us. And this does not deter us, and hasn't deterred us ever from building our country, a democratic Jewish state in Israel, and we have no intention to give up this achievement, and we'll have to find ways to live together in cooperation, in reconciliation with our neighbors. Yitzhak Rabin started this path by making peace with Jordan and started the road with the Palestinians, and the vision was to separate for demographic reasons, because we want a Jewish Democratic state, and not a state that will have a majority of non-Jews.

SWEENEY: Yesterday, I interviewed Mary Eisin, who is an Israeli government spokesperson here in Haifa, and she said to me among her many comments, she'd been up to Nahariya, and she's visited the bomb shelters there, and she said in her comments that Israel in many ways was built for war. Do you believe that Israel can also be built for peace at some stage in the future?

RABIN: I don't know whether you have been to Israel, but Israel is a beautiful, prosperous country, and we are basically built for peace, and we want peace. We were -- all those years, we were preparing for war, because this was our existence. We were facing war with our neighbors. So we tried to be ready to face any kind of war. But in the last years we've been taking steps toward peace. We withdrew from Southern Lebanon unilaterally. We withdrew from Gaza. We obey all of the decisions of the U.N. concerning Lebanon, and we were retreated to the 67 (ph) line in Gaza. So, I think, this at least shows our intention to go forward, to live in peace with our neighbors.

SWEENEY: Dalia, Rabin. Knesset member and daughter of the late Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, thank you very much indeed for joining us from Tel Avis.

We will be back with more after the break on YOUR WORLD TODAY. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson in Beirut.

In Lebanon, you're watching continuing coverage about the crisis in the Middle East. Now the United Nations humanitarian chief Jan Egeland is now in Israel. His mission there to establish humanitarian corridors and make sure that aide workers can operate safely in Lebanon.

Now Egeland told reporters that the U.N. is setting up new roots into Lebanon to provide aid. He's also announced the launch of the flash appeal for Lebanon to raise $150 million in humanitarian aid, and countries around the world are pitching in.

Let's take a look and see what people are doing. The U.S. has delivered a first shipment of a humanitarian aid worth $30 million. Apparently, E.U. says it will give $12.6 million, with the option to increase the amount if necessary, and Britain pledges a total of $9.2 million.

President Jacques Chirac says France will send a large aircraft to Cyprus with aide for Lebanon. The Arab world is helping as well.

Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah has agreed to donations totalling $1.5 billion to Lebanon, and the UAE is offering a donation of $20 million for medical aide and other supplies to the Lebanese people. It is extremely difficult for aide workers with aid at distribution points at this point to get that aid out to the people.

There is some trickling through on this what is effectively one of the first days when the aid is getting through.

We went down to the southeastern Beirut today, where some of the refugees from South Lebanon have fled. And this is what we've found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON (voice-over): Conditions here at this derelict hotel just outside Beirut are basic, to say the least. But there are no vacancies. All of the rooms are taken by desperate and frightened people. These represent just a small fraction of hundreds of thousands of Lebanese people who've been displaced since Israel started bombing the country.

Fourteen-year-old Miriam (ph) came here five days ago with her family from South Lebanon. Today she helped unload food parcels delivered to the hotel by aide workers. It's room service of a very different kind.

She, like many others, fled her home with little more than the clothes on her back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were so, so sad of course. We took a car, yes, and we were so scared about the street, if they will make anything, or anything, and we came here. We came here with my family.

ANDERSON For the couple of hundred people staying here, the arrival of Mercy Corps with food parcels is a welcome sight. Fifty boxes in total, and this just one of several deliveries around the area today. Well, this is what's in a typical box.

(on camera): You've got some pastern (ph) here, some gnocchi, some tuna. What's in this one? We've got some tea in here, some Arabic tea, some sugar, some rice. At least they got some lentils and things as well, so this is a typical box for one family of 10 for about 15 days.

Now, in this building alone, this derelict building alone, there are 48 families here. This is their first distribution of aid.

(voice-over): Aid workers say they're doing what they can, but conditions on the ground are difficult.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mercy Corps has been struggling to get commodities up to Aley, but also in Beirut. Prices are getting higher and higher by the day, and also the blockage is not helping.

ANDERSON: For the time being, people like Meriam are relatively safe from the Israeli air attacks. She knows though that the divisions in the region are deep, but believes that all sides in Lebanon must unite to bring about a lasting peace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel that we're one family, not many families. And we have to be one family to protect our -- to protect our earth, protect our Lebanon. It's for us, not for anybody else.

ANDERSON: A deep and meaningful message from one so young, which Meriam hopes will be heeded by leaders both here in Lebanon and around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, desperate living conditions with just a little relief today with those boxes turning up from Mercy Corps.

Joining us now with his perspective on the humanitarian crisis, and indeed the aid effort in Lebanon is Bassam Ghanem, who's with the Lebanese Red Cross.

We certainly saw the first of what was a very, very small amount of aid getting to people who desperately needed it. How much more are we doing at this point?

BASSAM GHANEM, LEBANESE RED CROSS: You know, that the Lebanese Red Cross is the largest humanitarian organization in the country here, and we're trying out best to do whatever we can to help the people in need.

But with the blockage in effect, the seaports are not available to use. The airports are not available to use. Even the land lines are almost cut 50 percent off, so aid is trickling at a very, very, very slow rate, and besides, we're facing a lot of logistical problems on the ground. Most of the roads are almost like, dead or unavailable. The infrastructure has been severely damaged.

ANDERSON: Have you say that it comes too little, too late and should Israeli, to your mind, have opened these humanitarian corridors for the Lebanese Red Cross earlier?

GHANEM: The Lebanese Red Cross, as I said earlier, we're a humanitarian organization. We aim to help the people in need, and this is what we're trying to do, so we're asking for open passage, safe passage to get the relief efforts, the relief stuff to the IDPs in need of them.

ANDERSON: We call these people internally displaced people or IDPs. These are people, aren't they, at the end of the day? These are people who are suffering through no fault of their own, effectively. What are your biggest challenges now going forward? What's does the world -- what's your message to the world, effectively? GHANEM: Well, all we can't ask for now is just to help us get the relief aid to the people in need, because here are a lot of people in need and -- you know, a lot of people in need.

ANDERSON: What of your biggest challenges?

GHANEM: Basically, first of all, we need a safe passage to get to the people, and then we need a ...

ANDERSON: Are you confident? So are you confident about it? Because I know some of your workers have been hit delivering aid just over the last couple of days, haven't they?

GHANEM: True, true. We need a safe passage. We have been deliberately hit, and we need a safe passage to get there and to get them relief aid. Some of them are coming in, but we can't deliver them. We need logistics. We are in need of all sorts of things to get this stuff done, get the job done.

ANDERSON: We'll leave it there. We thank you very much indeed.

GHANEM: Thank you very much. You're welcome.

ANDERSON: With the Red Cross in Lebanon and their view of the humanitarian situation as it stands here in Lebanon at present.

Let's get back to northern Israel now and to Fionnuala.

SWEENEY: Well, Becky, Condoleezza Rice -- as you know, the U.S. secretary of state was in Israel. She went to Ramallah in the West Bank where she had a meeting with the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. The conflict in Gaza is somewhat overshadowed by events in Lebanon.

Earlier I spoke to Edward Abington. He's a consultant to the Palestinian Authority President Abbas, and I asked him whether he thought any real progress had been made at that meeting between Condoleezza Rice and Mahmoud Abbas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EDWARD ABINGTON, ABBAS CONSULTANT: The Americans have been pressing President Abbas to dismiss the current government and to form an emergency cabinet, but my understand is that he's very reluctant to do this, I think in part because given the current environment with Lebanon and Israel, he will be seen as bowing to Israeli and American pressure. So I doubt that she really made much progress with President Abbas today.

SWEENEY: And on that note, just touching on an emergency cabinet, what would it involve, and would it involve the Hamas government that is there, elected by the people at the moment?

ABINGTON: My understanding of what the Americans are suggesting is that they get rid of Prime Minister Haniyeh, and basically the Hamas members of the government, many of whom have either been arrested or in hiding, and appoint sort of a caretaker government, more neutral people. But as I said, I think he's reluctant to do this.

SWEENEY: Reluctant to do this, but he might be reluctant to do it given the current climate you suggest. But what about the possibility of that changing down the line?

ABINGTON: Well, if things calm down, if there's a process going -- which, you know, the Egyptians are promoting negotiations which have been on and off between Hamas and the Israelis to try to get the release of Corporal Shalit, if that were to move forward then maybe it could set a different set of circumstances and you could move forward with some kind of an emergency government. But under the current circumstances, I just don't see President Abbas doing this.

SWEENEY: And since this escalation and the conflict between Israel and Gaza, particularly, before that we had seen constant fighting between Fatah and Hamas on the streets of Gaza. Would that be likely to erupt if there were to be some kind of deescalation in the conflict, unlikely as though it might be at the moment?

ABINGTON: You know, it's very hard to say. The Israelis have carried out a lot of strikes against Hamas targets in Gaza. I think no one can really judge the possibility that Fatah and Hamas would resume their conflict once Lebanon deescalates.

I mean, it's possible that the situation has become so difficult for Palestinians that if they can see a way out that would bring a better life to the Palestinian people, they may be willing to do that. But, you know, it has to be a two-way street.

The Israelis have got to ease up, allow stuff to go in and out of Gaza, allow development aid to start again, allow movement of Palestinians. So, you have a whole process that has to be revived before you can even get to that point.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SWEENEY: That's Edward Abington there, former U.S. counsel to Jerusalem. That's it for this special edition of YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Fionnuala Sweeney in Haifa.

ANDERSON: And I'm Becky Anderson in Beirut. Stay with CNN for our continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East.

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