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CNN Live Sunday

Artillery Battle Opens in Israel; Some Fear Armageddon After Middle East Crisis; Mel Gibson Embarrassed by His Conduct

Aired July 30, 2006 - 19:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our continuing live coverage of the Middle East crisis. We are tracking movements on the 19th day of hostilities. I'm Carol Lin, at the CNN Center, right here in Atlanta.
John Roberts, co-anchor.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Roberts, in Matula, Israel, where just a few minutes ago we heard an artillery battery open. Despite this pause in the aerial campaign, it's clear that, at this point, the fighting continues.

We'll be back with more in just a minute. But, first, let's go back to Carol, who's got a wrap-up of the latest news of the day.

Carol?

LIN: Thanks, John. Here's what we know right now. Israel agrees to a 48-hour cessation of aerial activity, this so they can investigate the carnage in Qana, Lebanon. That is where an air strike killed at least 60 people, most were children.

And on the Qana tragedy, President Bush says the U.S. mourns the loss of innocent life.

And with it being almost 3:00 a.m. in both Beirut and Jerusalem, the current military conflict enters its 20th day. For the latest, we're going to go back to John Roberts in northern Israel.

John?

ROBERTS: Thanks, Carol. In addition to expressing condolences, the White House today urged Israel to use the utmost caution in its campaign in southern Lebanon to avoid civilian casualties. And today the Israeli military offered an explanation of how that Qana mistake might have happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS (voice-over): The images are heart wrenching. Dozens of dead, many of them children, carried from the rubble of this building in Qana, destroyed by an Israeli bomb.

They are, also Israeli military officials admit, a terrible blow to public opinion in its campaign to push Hezbollah out of southern Lebanon. Deeply sorry for what it calls a mistake, the Israeli military claims it was targeting a Hezbollah rocket launcher nearby and released infrared video of what it said was evidence Hezbollah launchers are using civilian buildings for cover.

This video is not of today's attack, nor is it from Qana. But according to the Israeli military, the circumstances from this July 22nd incident in southern Lebanon are similar. The black flashes on the screen are the heat signature from the missile's rocket motor. The launcher appears to be positioned behind what the military says is an apartment building, a building like the one destroyed in Qana.

Another video, this one from an aircraft gun sight camera, shows what the Israeli military claims are Katyusha launchers operating in Qana. The military says it was shot in recent days and that the white flashes are missiles, aiming toward towns in northern Israel. Israeli officials insist it is a threat that must be removed.

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTRY: If we know there are civilians in an area, we won't act. But we have to state the facts here. This wasn't some peaceful little community that Israel went into. Unfortunately, we had, just in the last few days, more than 100 rocks fired from that community into Israeli cities.

Now that, doesn't excuse. We really express our regret. This is a terrible, terrible incident. But blame has to be shared around here and primarily with Hezbollah.

ROBERTS: A third video provided to CNN by the Israeli military shows how difficult it is to target where those Katyusha rockets are being fired from. The gun sight cameras follow missile launch vehicles as they weave through the streets, running for cover in buildings and garages.

The Israeli military said it was shot recently in southern Lebanon, but not in Qana. Israeli officials say they will conduct a full investigation into the Qana bombing and the civilian deaths, but they make no apology for targeting the rocket launchers and the deadly threat they pose to Israeli civilians.

(on-camera): In fact, three of those rockets fell in the town that we're in right now, one of them narrowly missing us. And even though there is a 48-hour pause in the bombing, in addition to artillery fire off in the distance, we're hearing machine gunfire tonight.

So, Carol, it's still very busy here in northern Israel and across the Lebanese border. Back to you.

LIN: A dangerous situation. John, stay safe out there. We're going to be back with John in a little bit.

But in the meantime, we are going to bring you much more, the end of the world, for example. Some say it was predicted 2,000 years ago. Could the crisis in the Middle East be a sign that it is true?

Also ahead, when actors act bad. Mel Gibson in big trouble and this time, there may be no coming back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Back now with you live from northern Israel, I'm John Roberts. As we showed you just a couple minutes ago, the Israeli defense forces showed video to back up their claim that Hezbollah is using civilian areas and, in some cases, civilians as human shields for their rocket launchers so that they can fire those Katyusha rockets in without getting much of a response from the Israeli side.

Let's get the take of Brigadier General David Grange on this. He joins us now live.

General Grange, do you believe, from watching this video, that, in fact, Hezbollah has been using urban areas, civilian areas, civilians as shields for these Katyusha rocket launchers?

BRIG. GENERAL DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Absolutely. It's really the only way they can survive in this type of battlefield. It gives them an advantage to use civilians not only for camouflage, to blend in, but also for cover and they know it's difficult to target any opposing force if there's civilians involved.

ROBERTS: General Grange, what do you think the overall Israeli army strategy here is? There is a lot of debate here in Israel that they didn't go in with enough ground forces. And now, many people are wondering exactly what the campaign is.

GRANGE: You know, I think there may be some constraints imposed on the Israeli defense forces by the political leadership on making it as small as possible, have as few casualties as possible, yet accomplish the objectives.

And I still think that, my personal view is they should have went in stronger. That doesn't mean you have to occupy, but go in stronger on these raids, with a little bit more overwhelming force, with more emphasis on the ground forces instead of just so much reliance on the air.

Now, I know this ground operation is going on, but it may be a little bit more emphasis on ground forces, which you can determine the targeting much better up close.

ROBERTS: So if they haven't gone in with enough ground forces and Hezbollah is so well dug in in southern Lebanon, as we've said repeatedly, six years to do it, is it possible for Israel to accomplish its goals?

GRANGE: I don't think so. I don't think they can accomplish the goals they need to negate the firing capabilities of the Hezbollah to actually deal a severe blow of some type of destruction of a substantial amount of forces of the Hezbollah before some kind of cease-fire is put in place.

In the eyes of the Arab world and definitely in the minds of the fighters of the Hezbollah, they're not losing. They're winning. And the only way to beat that is to destroy them by the ground forces up close.

ROBERTS: So if that is the case and Hezbollah is winning by not losing, could this be a humiliating defeat, in essence, for the Israeli army?

GRANGE: It could be. And not only that, I think it has some very -- there's going to be some very tough implications in the future for Israel if that is the case, regarding Iran, regarding Syria, just the neighborhood where they're located, it's going to be very difficult.

You know, they had in people's minds that it was an invincible army. It's not looking that way now to many of their adversaries and that's a dangerous situation to be in.

ROBERTS: Brigadier General David Grange, thanks very much for joining us. Appreciate it.

GRANGE: My pleasure.

ROBERTS: So what's happening here in the Middle East has got people talking about could it spread elsewhere and what would that mean.

Carol Lin's got that story. Carol?

LIN: All right, John, we're going to be talking about Israel, Hezbollah, at each other's throats and some are worrying that it is a sign of the worst yet to come -- Armageddon.

CNN's Delia Gallagher reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH AND VALUES CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They say the end of the world is coming.

KEN RAGGIO, CHURCH MEMBER: As far as I can tell, we are at the very end and we need to prepare ourselves for that, according to the word of God.

GALLAGHER: The Israeli-Hezbollah conflict, they say, is a sign that the Bible's final chapter, the book of Revelation, is unfolding before our eyes.

One of the Bible's most widely debated books, Revelation is filled with vivid and frightening imagery. It all depicts a great world apocalyptic battle for Israel, Armageddon, that ushers in the return of Jesus Christ and the beginning of a 1,000-year period of peace.

CRAIG TREADWELL, PASTOR, ENDTIME MINISTRIES: The sixth angel sounded.

GALLAGHER: At this Pentecostal church in Dallas, Pastor Craig Treadwell tells his congregation their salvation is tied to events happening 6,000 miles away, events, he says, that were predicted 2,000 years ago.

TREADWELL: The Bible prophetized that two billion people will die.

GALLAGHER: Scary stuff, coming from a popular local pastor. But he is not alone. Well known Reverend Jerry Falwell updated his "Falwell Confidential" column last week to say, "It is apparent, in light of the rebirth of the state of Israel, that the present day events in the Holy Land may very well serve as a prelude or forerunner to the future battle of Armageddon and the glorious return of Jesus Christ."

TREADWELL: Today, we will read straight from the Bible.

GALLAGHER: And at Pastor Treadwell's radio show that he co-hosts with Pastor Irvin Baxter, the talk is of end time.

TREADWELL: You've got one-third of mankind killed.

BAXTER: You've got two billion dead. Israel will survive, but will suffer a lot. And then finally, relations between Israel and the international community will go south. The world community invades. Armageddon.

KEVIN BEAN, ST. BARTHOLOMEW'S CHURCH: There's a fiction being created here like a Stephen King horror movie.

GALLAGHER: Reverend Kevin Bean of St. Bartholomew's Church in New York City says Revelation is not meant to be read so literally and, he says, it is irresponsible and dangerous to misinterpret the text.

BEAN: It's a part of our tradition, but we don't read it the way a lot of people do, which is to make that false correlation with present day events. That is a crock.

GALLAGHER (on-camera): According to a Harris Interactive poll of 1,000 people, 59 percent said they believe the events described in Revelation will occur at some point in the future and 17 percent say that it will happen during their lifetime.

(voice-over): And back at North Cities Church in Dallas, plans are being made.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look to the book of Revelations as indicators of what's going to happen.

GALLAGHER: For what they believe may be the end of the world as we know it.

Delia Gallagher, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Is it the end of the world as we no it? Joining me now to talk about this is Reverend John Hagee, author of the book "Jerusalem Countdown," in which Pastor Hagee is predicting a nuclear showdown with Iraq.

Pastor Hagee, you have a tremendous following, some 19,000 in your ministry, in the San Antonio church. I'm wondering, when you take a look at the events in the Middle East, what convinces you that this may be the beginning of the end?

REVEREND JOHN HAGEE, AUTHOR, "JERSULEM COUNTDOWN": All of the events in the Middle East are recorded in the book of Ezekiel and Ezekiel gives a very clear history of what God intends for the future concerning the Middle East.

Let me say immediately that there's no such thing as the end of the world. There will be an end to the world as we know it. After 9- 11, the world in America ended like we know it. If you don't believe that, go to an airport and try to catch a plane in 30 minutes.

But things are going to evolve into the future, where there become more military action and more nations involved in nuclear war and there will be a nuclear exchange. That's very clearly described in the book of Zachariah.

We're not talking about the end of the world. We are talking about the end of the world as we know it. In Christian theology, Christ is going to recreate the world so that it becomes like the Garden of Eden and there's a 1,000 years of peace on the face of the earth.

LIN: Pastor Hagee, as you saw in Delia Gallagher's piece, there are critics to this notion and this sense of timing.

Earlier, I spoke with Professor Don Wagner, he is an evangelical, and this is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON WAGNER, PROFESSOR, NORTH PARK UNIVERSITY: The Bible is not a real estate document. You know, it's neither a predictive document in the sense of predicting when Israel will be born or when Jesus is going to return, nor does it give justification for one people to control the land and drive another out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Professor Wagner also went on to say, Pastor Hagee, that those who promote this sense of the end of times, sort of the reckoning with Jesus Christ, that it's about promoting fear and that is not what Christianity is all about. What is your reaction?

HAGEE: He's wrong on both accounts. The Bible is a very predictive book. It begins in the book of Genesis, predicting to Abraham what his children are going to experience in Egypt. It says how long they're going to be there. It says the environment in which they will live from Genesis through the end of the Bible. Prophecy doesn't begin in the book of Revelation. It begins in the book of Genesis. And the totality of prophecy verifies this, that God knew from the beginning what is going to happen in the future. He's put it in the word of God so that we can see it. It is a message of hope. It is a message that God is in control. It is a message that there is going to be a huge battle between good and evil and that good is going to overcome evil and in the final analysis, Israel is going to be spared as a nation and the world is going to live in peace for 1,000 years.

LIN: Pastor Hagee.

HAGEE: That's the total message. Yes, ma'am.

LIN: But there's a greater message. I mean, you have a lot of influence. You organized some 3,500 people to go to Washington last week and on agenda was unabashed support for Israel and its war against Lebanon.

So you have even gone as far as to say that those who are against Israel are against God. Do you believe that your efforts, your group's agenda is really promoting war?

HAGEE: Absolutely not and your statement that this is Israel's war against Lebanon is absolutely incorrect. Israel was invaded by a terrorist organization, Hezbollah. They killed Israeli soldiers on Israeli soil. They kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

LIN: And Israel certainly has a right to defend itself.

HAGEE: And took them into the -- they do, indeed.

LIN: I completely agree with you, Pastor Hagee, but in going to Washington and laying it on the line with the politicians and even the president of the United States that Israel has a right, of course, to defend itself, but that it should be given unfettered support and those who are asking Israel for a cease-fire are against God and against prophecy.

Those are pretty strong statements.

HAGEE: No one ever made the statement that those who offered a cease-fire were against God. We said that Israel should be given the opportunity to be respond to Hezbollah, because we've had a 58-year pattern of the terrorists attacking, someone flying to Israel and screaming cease-fire, and then the terrorists regrouping, rearming themselves, and, 18 months later, we have it all to do over again.

They're trying to give the Israeli defense forces the opportunity to bring a lasting peace in the region by taking out a terrorist organization sworn to the destruction of Israel and to the Jewish people. That is a legitimate act of democracy.

When 3,500 Christians go to Washington and interact with our Senators and Congressmen, that's democracy in action.

LIN: All right, Pastor John Hagee, thank you very much. Now, unless you've been under a rock for the last couple days, you've likely heard about actor Mel Gibson's big gaffe. Well, it's not just the DUI arrest that has the actor ashamed. It's what happened at the arrest. That story when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Hollywood heavyweight Mel Gibson is nursing more than a hangover after his drunk driving arrest. Now, his reputation could take another hit, if obscene anti-Semitic remarks he allegedly made while being busted are true, Brooke Anderson has been following this story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Reports of anti- Semitic statements by Mel Gibson and allegations a police cover-up. Reverberations from Gibson's arrest are spreading through Los Angeles.

Now, the LA County sheriff's department is embroiled in reports they gave Gibson preferential treatment after he was arrested early Friday morning in Malibu, California, on suspicion of driving under the influence of alcohol.

The entertainment news Website, "TMZ.com," reports authorities altered the arresting deputy's handwritten report, allegedly removing offensive comments Gibson made when he was arrested.

TMZ alleges Gibson spewed obscenities and hurled anti-Semitic and sexist statements.

Steve Whitmore, spokesman for the LA County sheriff's department, will neither confirm nor deny those reports, but told CNN the arrest occurred without incident. Clarifying what that means, quote, "Every time somebody is arrested, something out of the ordinary happens, but guns don't always have to be drawn. Without incident means without force."

He went on to say, "There has been no cover-up by the sheriff's department, nothing has been sanitized. The job of the LA County sheriff's department is not to focus on what he said or didn't say, but to establish his blood alcohol level and concentrate on the facts. We do not investigate on rumor and innuendo."

Whitmore said the final report to be presented to the district attorney would contain, quote, "everything, lock, stock and barrel."

Mike Gennaco, who heads the group of attorneys who monitors sheriff department investigations, told CNN they are looking into the allegations of misconduct, but said it's normal for there to be numerous versions a report.

Quote, "There could be legitimate reasons for sending a report back and changing it. That happens all the time. If there was a cover-up, it wasn't a total cover-up. Gibson was arrested on suspicion of DUI. He was detained, held and photographed." CNN hasn't seen the official report, but has requested a copy under the California Public Records Act.

Gibson, on Saturday, released a lengthy statement through his publicist, calling his behavior "belligerent" and saying he was ashamed. The statement also said, quote, "I did a number of things that were very wrong. I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested and said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable. I apologize to anyone who I have offended. I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior and for that, I am truly sorry."

The Anti-Defamation League issued a statement Sunday, saying Gibson's apology wasn't good enough, calling it, quote, "unremorseful and insufficient." They went on to say, "It's not a proper apology because it does not go to the essence of his bigotry and his anti- Semitism."

The ADL is responding to reports that Gibson allegedly made anti- Semitic remarks, allegations Gibson did not directly address in his statements. Gibson's publicist, Alan Neirob, told CNN on Sunday he would not comment on whether Gibson had entered an alcohol rehabilitation program, nor would he address whether Gibson made anti- Semitic remarks during his arrest. He said Gibson's statement speaks for itself.

(on-camera): Now, Gibson, at this time, hasn't been formally charged with anything. The district attorney will decide if there should be charges filed and if so, what they should be.

Carol?

LIN: We'll see what happens. Thanks very much, Brooke.

It has been a big day in the Middle East developments. We heard just hours ago that Israel, announcing a 48-hour cessation to its air campaign over southern Lebanon to allow humanitarian aid into the Lebanese city of Qana, as well as an investigation into why that missile strike hit a civilian target.

John Roberts, reporting from northern Israel. John, you'll be joining me later for our primetime show at 10:00 Eastern.

ROBERTS: And not only that, but I'll be filling in for Larry King tonight on "Larry King Live." We're going to have guests from around the region. Also, check in with our correspondents for the latest on it.

What does the bombing in Qana do to the military campaign? How might it affect the diplomatic track? We'll have all of that for you on "Larry King Live" tonight.

Carol?

LIN: Look forward to it. Thanks very much, John. See you later tonight. And thanks for joining us right here on CNN SUNDAY. The day's headlines in three minutes.

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